Welcome to part two of my two-hour conversation with my girlfriend, bestselling author Kristen Arnett, during which I asked her questions I genuinely did not know the answers to! In part one, we covered childhood and teen years, and she explained scrambled porn to me, which definitely ties into one of the topics we touch on in this second half of the interview: our age gap. In fact, we’re talking all things our relationship, from its origins, to our first official date, to our specific top/bottom dynamics, to the writer4writer of it all. Yep, we got very personal!

Kayla: Let’s fast forward to our relationship. We met online, and I feel most people know that about us. It’s like the-

Kristen: I think it’s part of the legend.

Kayla: The legend. You reached out to me on Valentine’s day.

Kristen: Yes.

Kayla: And you were drunk and-

Kristen: Shockingly.

Kayla: I know that story well, and I feel like people know that story well, but I actually don’t know like, what were you doing that day? What led to that moment? I will provide the context for the sake of the interview, like you and I had followed each other a few months before that on social media and had been doing the very passive, orbiting of each other, liking each other’s photos and stuff like that. No actual direct contact had been made. Until Valentine’s Day. Why that day? And what did the beginning of that day look like for you, if you remember? Because I don’t know that part.

Kristen: Oh, I mean for me I felt like it was a really normal day. It was a day where … because I think it was a work day so I was at the library where I was heading up circulation. So, I know that I came home, and I busted open a bottle of wine. I was in a fine mood, like I wasn’t in a bad mood or anything.

Kayla: Yeah, we had been interacting but very passively.

Kristen: That was a period of my life where I was on dating apps a lot and randomly hooking up with a lot of people, and kind of doing whatever. And I remember you had followed me on Twitter, and I did not know who you were. So, you followed me and I was like, “Who is this? Oh, okay.” And then I was like, “Oh you look cute.” And then I think I went on your Instagram, and I think I followed you from there because, I saw pictures of you and I thought you were attractive. And so I was like, “Oh, I’m going to look and see her Instagram.” Because I think I was looking to see if you were dating anybody.

Kayla: Okay. What was your conclusion?

Kristen: I thought no, because it was a lot of thirst traps. But again, I didn’t go back that far and if it’s just somebody new I’m like kind of looking at…I was like, “I’m going to look at the first nine pictures probably.”

Kayla: Okay. Yeah. Those were probably all thirst traps.

Kristen: I can tell you with assurance that they were. And I was like, “Oh, I think you’re good looking.” And so I don’t know. That day, I was just having a regular ass day. I got home from work and I was kind of drinking wine and whatever. I think you must have posted something. I literally can’t remember what it was.

Kayla: I think it’s very possible that I did.

Kristen: It wasn’t something sad though, because I don’t think I would’ve connected with that. But I think you might have posted something. You might have posted a picture or something on Instagram. But that’s not my platform, so I think I would’ve probably messaged you via Twitter. Also, you were doing a lot of cross posting at that time. If you did a thirst trap on Instagram, you posted it on Twitter also.

Kayla: Yeah. I definitely was. I think that was a very small sector of time that I was doing that.

Kristen: I think if we looked back to what was posted on this day, you probably posted a thirst trap.

Kayla: Yeah, Valentine’s Day 2019. Yeah.

Kristen: Thirst trap, probably. So, I think it was like, I’d had a lot of wine, and I was home, and I was like I had been thinking about the fact that I thought you were good looking. I mean, the one other thing was that I really wasn’t reaching out to people that were not nearby. I was looking for direct hookups.

Kayla: Yeah, that was not a move of yours that you were hitting on people online.

Kristen: No, I definitely was not doing that.

Kayla:  Which I don’t think I realized at the time-

Kristen: No, I was trying to message people that I could have sex with immediately. So I knew you lived in New York. And so I was like, that was not something I normally would have done, because I usually only reached out to people that would be local that I could maybe hook up with. But I don’t know, I really liked your thirst traps.

Kayla: They were good.

Kristen: I told your mom.

Kayla: (laughs) Yeah she visited us in Vegas and was like “why did you like Kayla?”

Kristen: (laughs) She was like, “Why’d you do that?” And I was like, “I thought she was really hot.” But I think that was like a big thing where it’s just like, I don’t know. I felt good, I was having a great day. I was like, well, I’m home, I’m drinking wine, I was sitting in my recliner. I literally had my wine in the cup holder of my recliner, just sitting. I remember being reclined back and my recliner, very drunk off wine and being like, “I’m going to message this woman on Twitter.” And I did it, and you responded back fairly quickly. It was like a regular day, but it was very unusual that I would’ve messaged somebody that isn’t local. Because, I didn’t normally try and start something we couldn’t be in contact with each other. I’m definitely not a person who’s ever been like, “You know what I want to do long distance.” Like I am not that gay person. But, no had a nice day and then I was like, “Oh, I’m going to send this very good looking person a message.” That’s how I decided to do everything. Like I’m very impulsive.

Kayla: Yeah, I definitely know that about you now.

Kristen: I feel like there’s a very strong Sagittarius energy with the impulse thing. Because when I feel impulsive, I will do that thing no matter what. Even if I’m thinking like, “Well this is a bad idea for my finances, bad idea for friendships, relationships, whatever the hell, like my job.” I’ll be like, “Well it’s happening, too late I did it.” I just think sometimes I just make a very impulsive decision.

Kayla: I mean now you did that before knowing that we would ever have the opportunity to meet really? I mean you knew that you had a book coming out and so you knew that you were maybe going to end up in New York at some point.

Kristen: I will be completely honest with you, I don’t know what I thought was going to come from that. I just thought you were really good looking and I wanted to say that to you. I am the most shocked out of anyone that this is what occurred.

Kayla: Because I mean, it took a while for us to even like text sexually after that. It was like, we kind of built to that.

Kristen: That’s also another unusual thing. It’s not that I don’t like sexting, but it’s like, that’s not what I did. I would just meet up with people. Like if I got a vibe from somebody, I’d be like, “Okay, let me meet you at this bar.” And then we would have sex with each other.

Kayla: Yeah. When you were like on Tinder and stuff, you were very to the point. We’ve talked about that.

Kristen: I mean, and granted I feel like nobody does that. So it was a very easy to get people to be like, “Sure, yeah.” Because I was like, nobody was being assertive. But no, I don’t know. I just made an impulsive decision.

Kayla: Yes. And so then it took about two months for us to meet in person. Did you know how old I was when we met up?

Kristen: I did.

Kayla: How’d you know?

Kristen: I looked you up.

Kayla: I mean, I looked you up too, but we’ve never talked about this.

Kristen: I don’t think I had a confirmation of exactly your birthday at that time, but I knew that you were a certain age, because I remember making a lot of jokes to my best friend Maria about it. And then, because I remember she told me about this later, but I was having brunch with her and her brother, and our other friend, and I kept making a lot of jokes about it.

And then I guess I went up to go to bathroom and when I was gone, her brother who’s our friend was like, “Why does Kristen keep saying this stuff?” And Maria’s like, “Oh, because she’s actually interested, and so it’s bothering her, so she keeps saying it a lot of times.” Because if it hadn’t mattered to me, I wouldn’t have cared. But, it was one of those things where I was like, I did know but at the time I was like, “Well, it’s fine.” Like we were just meeting up for a weekend. And I was like, well that’s fine. And I also didn’t know if you would even show up. You’d been real flighty on text, and so I was like, “Well I guess I’m just going to be in New York for a weekend and that’s totally fine.” I was like “I’m in New York for a weekend, I have a bunch of friends there. I’m at a place with a bar, that’ll be amazing no matter what.”

But that is not what happened.

Kayla: No. Because also I mean, it was a very different experience for me too. It’s like a first date with someone that I met online, but not on a dating app. And they don’t live here, and we have nebulous plans to meet up at a hotel or bar.

Kristen: Yes. But I had told you that I had gotten the room for the whole weekend.

Kayla: Yes, and I told you on my way that I forgot my toothbrush.

Kristen: Yes. But I had said to you previously, “I don’t know what your plans are, but you can stay as long as you want.”

Kayla: Yeah. I’d never gone on a “date” like that before. Which is like, it’s not a date, it’s like an arrangement.

Kristen: Yes an arrangement, that sounds so classy.

Kayla: I’d just never done something like that before, and it was different. And I knew you were older than me, but I wasn’t sure how old.

Kristen: I didn’t know exactly how old you were until when I bought a plane ticket for you and I had to know the year that you were born. There’s just something about being told that the birth year is like 1992. That is like, “Oh my God.”

Kayla: We had this conversation recently with my sister. My sister was talking to us about friends that she has, who are of the same age gap as us but it’s 21 to 33. That’s different.

Kristen: Well, I mean, the thing is this too is like, who the hell knows what’s going on when they’re 21 years old? I barely know what I’m doing now, and I’m 41. So it’s like, I’m not trying to … A person who’s 21 needs to have a life experience. And they need to be able to meet people and do things and learn more about themselves, and that’s great. That’s not anything that I need to be involved with.

Kayla: And I think both of us would admit it never would’ve worked back then.

Kristen: And it should not.

Kayla: It should not. No.

Kristen: I mean, there’s people that have different life experiences though, I can’t say whatever, like-

Kayla: Sure, yeah. It’s not a universal statement.

Kristen: And also when I was like 21, my life experience was also so different than other people’s life experience when they were 21. It’s like, everybody’s life is different, but I do know that for myself. I mean, I also knew where I was at the time when you and I met. I had just gotten out of a long term relationship, and I had been dating around, and by dating around I mean indiscriminately hooking up with people. I was like, I’m not looking for whatever this is. But I did know that it was important for me, I was like I don’t want to be engaging with anybody that’s under a certain age because I feel like there’s a space in which there is going to be some really big gap between, and a gap in between what we would get from each other. So I wasn’t trying to hook up with anybody that was substantially in a completely different place in life than I was. And again like you and I when we started talking or whatever, it was like, you and I we’re both writers, we’re both going through a lot of very similar things according to our careers. We’re both in this specific kind of place where we’ve both gotten out of like specific kind of relationships.

Kayla: Yeah that’s interesting that you say that, because I definitely agree. And, that’s something that I’ve talked to my best friend about in the past where it’s like, we are at such different points in our life but, they almost correlate in this interesting way. It’s like you had gotten out of a long term relationship/marriage. I had gotten out of a relationship that was not necessarily super long term, but it was a defining relationship.

Kristen: It was a very serious, substantial part of your life.

Kayla: Yeah. It was the majority of my twenties. It was like, I moved cities, stuff like that. And then also, you had a book coming out, like this big thing. I was like shifting toward doing the thing I wanted to do-

Kristen: We had a lot of change happening in both of our lives.

Kayla: Yeah, like so different but similar. And it just kind of made sense. I don’t know. Do you remember what we talked about on our first date?

Kristen: At the bar?

Kayla: Yeah. Because, some of it was this, what we’re talking about now. We talked about our past relationships, and we talked about where we were at with our careers.

Kristen: Yeah. I mean, I remember being like, it just felt easy.

Kayla: I know.

Kristen: It just felt like a very natural kind of falling into discussion about a lot of different stuff.

Kayla: In retrospect, you were pretty open and personal in a way that I know that you’re not usually.

Kristen: I mean, another thing too is that you and I talked for a while before we met up and that’s not normally what I would do. I made a point previously to that, to be like I am purposely not engaging in a dialogue with somebody. But you and I had already talked, and I’d known some things about you because you told me them, and you knew some things about me because I told you.

Kayla: And part of that was my personality of being like, I’m such an internet kid, I like to connect to people this way.

Kristen: I’m more careful, I think.

Kayla: About what?

Kristen: Because intimacy feels very intense to me, and so I think I am more circumspect even though I want people to be able to know things about me. But, I’m also a person too, where sometimes strong emotion feel like too much, so I want to make it into a joke or something. But yeah, I just remember it being really easy.

Kayla: I do too. I actually remember kind of a lot about our first date. I remember what I wore, I remember how I felt getting there and the train ride over, what it felt like outside, and just sitting down next to you, and we just talked a lot. And I didn’t even know you that well at the time. So, I didn’t know how rare it was for you to be that kind of open and vulnerable with me which, I feel like you were.

Kristen: Yeah, it was a nice time, I guess it was just one of those things where I didn’t anticipate it. I didn’t anticipate that it would turn into the thing that it turned into. And these are my favorite things in my life, when I’m pleasantly surprised by what my impulsivity has wrought. I mean, that’s the thing about my impulsiveness. I know I’m impulsive, but also I think a lot of the time my impulsiveness is going off of a very strong gut intuition. So it most of the time doesn’t steer me in a horrible direction. But I think that we both kind of left the weekend being like not sure what was next.

Kayla: No I did too, and I didn’t even have as much casual sex experience as you had. But I still thought I was like, “oh we did this, it was fun.”

Kristen: Like a fun, nice time. I mean, I just assumed it’d be like, “Okay, I’ve got a nice hotel, we can hang out for the weekend. I go back to Florida, you live in Brooklyn.” We had a good time. And that’s kind of how I thought it was going to go.

Kayla: And then we pretty much like immediately made plans to see each other again.

Kristen: Disgusting.

Kayla: Disgusting.

What for you is the hardest thing about our age gap? Because I think we talk about like it’s hot, we’re both into it, like that kind of stuff people are into that, but what’s hard about it?

Kristen: I don’t know. I mean, I think shockingly for the most part, it hasn’t been as hard as I assumed. I think I went into it with a preconceived idea of being like, because of our age gap, it might be hard because of X, Y, Z.

Maybe we will be in such different places of our lives that I have raised a kid and I was like, this is not a discussion that I had with somebody because, I’ve never dated somebody in a situation where they’re significantly younger, having a conversation about having kids and I worried about that. I think I maybe in my mind kind of conjured that it would be more difficult but, in reality it really hasn’t been, I haven’t had any kind of situations. There’s lots of jokes where it’s like, “oh, you don’t know what this is?” Or, “Oh I don’t know what something is.” Or, “Oh my girlfriend has to help me with technology because I’m like an old grandpa.”

Kayla: Which does happen.

Kristen: Oh it absolutely does. But it’s like one of those things where for myself, nothing has been … Maybe it’s been less hard than I thought it was going to be. I think part of it is that I’m such a person that lives in the moment, I don’t think about the future. If I was pressed, I’d be like, “Yeah, if we are together in the future, what will our old age look like me being that much older than you?” It’s not amazing, but I’m also just not a person that thinks like that. But I guess too because we’re both in places in our life where we can basically move wherever we want to, our careers make it so we can kind of be flexible.

Kayla: That makes it a lot easier.

Kristen: I know our age gap is like a 12 year age gap, but we’re kind of in the same place career wise.

Kayla: Not same same place, but-

Kayla: I think we’re the same ballpark. I mean, I think we’re kind of in the same place. I feel like we’re kind of on the same even playing field. That’s how I feel in my head, you know? I don’t know, nothing feels as hard to me as I thought it was going to. I don’t know, what for you? Now I get to ask.

Kayla: You get to flip it?

Kristen: Yeah. I get one ask. You don’t have to post it, but you have to tell me.

Kayla: Yeah! I mean, I agree with you in the sense that on paper it maybe seemed harder than it was going to be. I think something that I wouldn’t have been able to articulate before, but that you just said is that our lifestyles actually help a lot because I think a different lifestyle, and different career path would have an impact.

Kristen: I think that would make it harder.

Kayla: And I think technically one of the biggest life experience differences between you and me, is that you have a kid and I don’t. And yet that has not felt that difficult to me.

Kristen: I mean, I know a big part of that is that like we started dating after my kid would’ve left, he’s an adult and would be in college.

Kayla: Yeah, he was grown. So that wasn’t really something we had to deal with. And I think you and I did — at the risk of sounding corny — meet at the exact right time.

Kristen: No, I think so. I don’t think it would’ve worked if it was a different time.

Kayla: Almost by even just a year or whatever.

Kristen: No, I agree. But it’s one of those things where it’s like, I don’t know, we are kind of on the same page about professionally what we want. We both care about our careers so much.

Kayla: And that’s the top a priority for us, and I think that’s different, because I even think somebody my age would maybe be more fixated on “I want to have a family or do this other thing.” And that’s not where I’m at. We have the same priorities in life. So I do think it’s the age gap has not been that hard to navigate.

Kristen: I mean, do you think that some of it might be that — and I’m just extrapolating — but it’s like, my writing career didn’t start until like 10 years ago, so we kind of are in the same kind of trajectory when it comes to our professional careers. It’s closer together than our age gap relationship. Our careers are kind of sitting in the same kind of place. Like we had stuff happening at the same time, if that makes sense.

Kayla: Okay, let’s talk about that. What has felt hard or surprised you about dating another writer? Because I know that is something we both said we would never do. And then it happened.

Kristen: I really thought… I mean, it’s been a few different things. Part of it I know is that we are writers dating in a pandemic. We both work from home, and both do writing for a living. We are both in the same space together. I’m hesitant to use the word trapped. I know I’ve been using the word trapped, and I was like, “I don’t want to use that anymore.” Cause I think that’s the wrong language to use for what’s happening. Cause I’m not trapped with you. I enjoy being with you. That is not the language I want to use for that.

It’s just not what I had anticipated, what our writing relationship would be like together. We’ve always worked well in the same space, which I think is so lucky. Another thing too is I started dating you and I knew that you were a TV critic and worked for Eater. You were doing food writing and nonfiction work, and you worked for Autostraddle with like nonfiction work. I was going into it being like “this is an essayist, slash nonfiction writer that I’m dating.” Then as we have been dating, being like “okay, this is a person who writes fiction, too.” Which was not something I had anticipated and that I didn’t know about you. I didn’t necessarily think I’d be dating another writer, but I definitely didn’t think I’d be dating another fiction writer.

But to me it’s been… I think it’s been really good in all the ways. It means that we have such a good dialogue about work and the stuff that we’re interested in. We can be really petty about writers in our own home and then we don’t have to put it anywhere online.

I mean the challenges I feel with writing lately, like trying to publish books inside of a pandemic, have nothing to do with anything you’re doing. I would say the biggest problem for me at this point with being with another writer is knowing I’m completely consumed sometimes with the stupid, dumb feeling I have about what is happening with my career and knowing that I’m subjecting you to it all the time.

Kayla: Yeah. But that’s funny because, for me, that’s such an upside. I totally get what you’re saying too. We’re both so inundated with it. It almost feels like a vacuum and, we don’t want to burden each other with writing frustrations, but it’s also, at least you understand.

Kristen: I do feel when I’m really down on myself or having a hard time with my work or going through it with that, being like, feeling like I’m being a burden to you or repeating myself or not being like the kind of person I want to be for you.

Kayla: On the one hand, I understand it. I get it. And I’m there for you. Yeah. But I understand what you’re saying too where you’re like, but also, you’re going to be annoyed by this because it’s…

Kristen: Well, it’s a fear that I feel like I have, I… I don’t want to alienate the person in my life that I care about the most with stuff that feels… Overwhelming. I don’t want to… I’m trying to think of the right way to say this. I don’t want to have our relationship — which I value so much and I think it’s so special and is so precious to me, it’s so good — being bogged down by the weight of when I’m consumed and what I feel is my own failure. If that makes sense. Even though I know it’s not a failure. I don’t want our relationship to suffer at any point because of how I feel about my work.

Kayla: Sure. Yeah. Cause I also think it’s, I mean, again, kind of a double-edged sword situation, it’s like, I don’t think it’s any secret that we are attracted to each other’s talent and yeah. That is a thing that sometimes can feed into insecurity. We’re attracted to each other’s talent, and also neither of us would ever ever be, like “oh, well you’re not doing well, and I don’t like that.” That would never happen. But I think internally, we could maybe be like seeing our failures through each other’s eyes.

Kristen: Some of it for me is, being a top and who I feel like I am in our relationship and who I want to be in our relationship, I don’t handle failure or not doing as well as I would like, because sometimes it makes me feel like I’m not in control. It makes me feel like I am not being who I want to be as a person in our relationship. And that feels like that’s a double struggle for me where I’m, I want to be confident with you and talented and successful and happy. And that feeds into like a lot of things. So, including our sex life. It’s, I guess it’s like my writing, I feel my writing has got its little membranes inside of everything. Because when my writing’s not going well, it affects all that shit.

Kayla: No, I think that’s good. I think we should probably move into sexual stuff again. Cause that’s what people are interested in.

Kristen: Everybody is. I’m interested in that.

Kayla: We didn’t even necessarily move away from it because I feel like you know that you’re a control freak, but I think I’m a control freak too. In certain ways. And it’s… I don’t know, work and creative stuff feels so connected to sex for me. When we started sleeping together, it was also when we were first starting to read each other’s writing. We were experiencing each other in both those ways at the same time. And that’s interesting to think about.

I’m going to ask something super broad. What does being a top mean to you?

Kristen: I don’t know. I think that’s different-to-different people.

Kayla: Yeah. I mean, that’s why I’m asking you. Cause I agree.

Kristen: I’ve kind of said this to you before, and we’ve had this conversation where it’s, I mean on a granular level. It’s like, who wants to be fucked and who wants to fuck? That’s a portion of what that is for me. I mean, some of it is that for myself it’s a definite measure of control, because an idea of control for myself is very erotic for me. When I feel like I’m in a moment of like knowing exactly who I am and what I want and how I can tell another person exactly how to do it, I feel like I am the most myself and the most confident and best version of myself. And, to me that feels like topping and it does… Like in a pun intended, like feels like I feel great. I feel like the best version of myself in those moments. Those are the times where I feel like when I know the most about who I am and what I want and what I know what the other person would want. But again, I think it’s a very amorphous kind of thing. And it shifts.

Kayla: When did you know that’s what you wanted?

Kristen: I think it took me a little while. Also, what I have liked and what I have wanted in my life, it has shifted and changed as I have aged. I think when I had a better understanding of who I was as a person then I had a better understanding of what I would like from sexual situations. I do think we get little glimpses into what those things are like as we move through life. Of course. Yeah. I mean, some of those things are, “what is the kind of porn you like to watch? What are the kind of things you get off to?”

Kayla: Well, you were in a relationship for most of your twenties.

Kristen: And going into my thirties. And I mean, that was a relationship that had its own dynamic outside of anything else. Right? Sure. Cause I think inside of any relationship is its own cartography. It has its own map. It has its own trajectory. It’s got its own language and its own thing. You know, so we can say, oh, top and bottom, whatever. But it’s like, what does that look like really? Inside of a relationship, it’s just its own thing.

Kayla: After your relationship then you were having a lot of different kinds of sex.

Kristen: Yeah for probably like three to four years. I just dated, and by dated, I use that term very loosely. I wanted to sleep around with people and see what I like and what I want. I didn’t want to be in a relationship. Because I’ve been in a relationship for a long time and I’m ready to have the kind of freedom that I have not had previous to this.

Kayla: And were you trying lots of different things?

Kristen: It’s interesting to remember. Once I was getting on dating apps, I immediately felt like I fell into being more assertive, because I could see that nobody here was going to be assertive. And I don’t have a problem with being assertive. I very quickly found out what I wanted, and I think part of it was through dating apps. Because I was like, I can see what I don’t want right away. I can see how I want to feel right away right from this. What I want to feel is that I am going to put myself in a situation and say exactly what I want. And if a person doesn’t want that, then great. We don’t have to have any further conversation, because it’s a waste of both of our times. Very quickly I was like, oh this is a thing that I had been kind of wanting for long time. But it was something that I wouldn’t have been able to know inside of a relationship.

Kayla: Can you connect what you wanted back to earlier desires?

Kristen: Sure. I mean, I think it’s not difficult to kind of find those little pinpoints. Well, I mean even like watching porn, I liked to watch porn where it was from a viewpoint of somebody who was doing something to somebody else. And that’s what I most connected to, not the person who was being fucked, but the person doing the fucking. But I don’t think I would’ve been able to as a very young queer person understand what I was.

Kayla: I mean same. I was curious, because when I think about myself sexually or the things, I’m into or desires, whatever, I am able to pinpoint stuff from a long time ago. But I never would’ve had the language to describe it then. I don’t think we have it. I don’t think we have the language to describe it at that point. And honestly, I think that’s fine. It takes time.

Kristen: But I do think for myself, as soon as I was able to have freedom outside of that very specific confine of a relationship… once I was outside of it, I knew, I knew exactly what I didn’t want. Right. I was like, here’s what I do want. And some of those things I was able to determine very quickly in terms of sexual compatibility with people. Because I was like, “I’m not looking to have a relationship with anybody.” I was like, “I do not want to have a relationship with anyone.” I’m not looking for that. I’m looking for a purely sexual interaction with somebody. And what does that look like? And what is it that I want from that? That made things a little more clear for me.

I wanted to be very assertive. I’m wanted to be more forward. I’m wanted to see if this is something people on dating apps wanted and be like, I’m interested in just a night of that. And if people were, then great. And a lot of times, people were. It was a thing of, “oh, I’ve been kind of waiting for somebody to ask me for this kind of thing.” Because I do think it’s a lot of women on dating apps just saying “hey” and the other person saying “hey.”

Kayla: Exhausting, it’s terrible. Exhausting.

Kristen: I hate it. I didn’t want to have a “hey” interaction with anyone. But I do think it’s one of those things where it made it a little easier for me. Cause I knew exactly what I didn’t want, and what I did not want was a relationship or any kind of thing that looked like that. And in that way, dating apps did work for me. It was like dating apps are amazing. I’m just getting exactly the transaction I want to get out of this. I was like, I’m getting literally the interactions I want to get, which is just random hookups. And that’s like, yeah, I’m figuring out exactly what it is that I want to get from sex. So, sex was great. Because I was like, here is here’s exactly what I think I want. Oh, it is exactly what I want. So, sex was really good. Hooking up was good. I don’t have to see these people. It was exactly what I want.

Kayla: I had the same moment. It was definitely different. But when I got into dating apps, I was like, wow we can just meet up and have sex. Like, I don’t know. That never felt possible before. It’s why the people who say like lesbian Grindr wouldn’t work are wrong imo. I feel like dyke Grindr would absolutely work.

Kristen: I feel like I was using Tindr as lesbian Grindr. I was very upfront about the things I wanted, like, here’s who I am. I was like, “This is what I want out of it, and is that cool with you?”

Kayla: Ok I have some lightning-round questions for the end here. I know you’ve never literally counted, but if you had to estimate how many people you’ve hooked up with, what would you come up with?

Kristen: I’m thinking. Okay. There was a few years there where it was a lot. So, I’m trying to think, I’m trying to…

Kayla: Do the math. You look like the like meme of that lady doing calculations.

Kristen: It’s under a hundred.

Kayla: Under 100 and over…

Kristen: 75?

Kayla: Under 100, over 75. What’s the first thing that you remember from our first date downstairs at the bar, like first thing that comes to mind?

Kristen: I remember you asking if you could stash your bag under the bar.

Kayla: Oh, I remember that bag. She’s broken now. Okay, and first thing that you remember about our date after we went upstairs to the hotel room?

Kristen: Oh, I gave you my book to look at because it was about to be published, and then I took it and threw it away. So we could have sex.

Kayla: I also remember you throwing the book. Last question. Do you still look at my old nudes on your phone?

Kristen: Yes, I have them favorited.

Kayla: But like, do you look at them? Do you’re like I’m going to do a scrolly-scroll?

Kristen: Yes.

Kayla: We’re always together now!

Kristen: I have one that you sent me, a video. With the Hitachi. And I do like that one.

Kayla: That’s a fan favorite. That’s a re-watch for you.

Kristen: Definitely.

Kayla: All right. That’s the end. Ending on a horny note.

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