Welcome to NSFW Sunday!
Feature image via loneookami.
+ Science doesn’t know a lot about orgasms but it’s working on it. Some findings — which the researchers emphasize likely won’t apply equally to everyone — include that orgasms increase pain tolerance, kill fear and impulse control and can come from different types of touches, and that people orgasm with their whole brains:
“Komisaruk’s experiments have shown that in both men and women approaching orgasm, a predictable series of events occurs in the brain. Not surprisingly, as sexual stimulation occurs it leads to activation of brain regions known to be involved in processing our sense of touch.
From there, however, a number of seemingly unrelated brain areas — such as the limbic system (involved in memory and emotions), the hypothalamus (involved in unconscious body control), and the prefrontal cortex (involved in judgment and problem solving) — join in, with one after another showing heightened levels of activation.
By the time you actually experience an orgasm, ‘more than 30 major brain systems are activated,’ Komisaruk says. ‘It’s not a local, discrete event. There’s no ‘orgasm center.’ It’s everywhere.'”
via womenofcolor
+ You can learn all sorts of things at an orgy, like that you are a lesbian, and what you need from your non-monogamous relationship:
“This orgy was the first time I had actual, unquestionable sex with another woman. The first time, to put it crudely, that I put my tongue on another woman’s pussy. And the moment I put my tongue on that other woman’s pussy (hi there, L., if you’re reading, I remember you, too, and very fondly indeed), my core sexual self-identity was transformed from ‘woman who has fantasies about other women but isn’t sure what that means in her real life’ to ‘dyke.’ It took no time at all. Tongue hovering above the pussy, not so sure; tongue on the pussy, dyke.”
+ Safer sex tips for trans women include using barriers, lube and communication.
+ You can still have sex after age 60. No, really.
Geena Rocero via cosmo
+ Here are some places to touch your activity partners, if they’re into it.
+ Being single can make you better in relationships.
+ Refinery29 has a lube shopping guide with recommendations for all sorts of situations. Organic lube is one way to upgrade your sex life if you’re still using drugstore stuff. (Refinery29 does not talk about Pink, which is my favorite. Autostraddle also has a lube shopping guide.)
+ If you’re good at talking about sex, you probably have more of it (and other findings from our sex survey).
via rodeoh
+ Worrying about hymens is ridiculous.
+ Sometimes you just need platform high heels with a built-in butt plug, or, ahem, “unusual designs which incorporate beautiful accessories for erotic play.”
via femmenatic
+ Being a feminist badass is totally compatible with BDSM, just in case you were worried:
“[NCSF founder Susan] Wright continued: ‘Being submissive is very compatible with feminism because it is choosing your own form of sexual expression. In the end, sexuality is empowering—and you can empower people in all the diverse ways that they enjoy sexuality. Power exchanges are one of those ways. That’s certainly why I did the SM policy project for the National Organization for Women. I’ve been a NOW member since I was 16, and when I found out that NOW had an anti-sadomasochism stance, I couldn’t understand why. I didn’t believe that feminism and BDSM were at all incompatible.'”
All of the photographs on NSFW Sundays are taken from various tumblrs and do not belong to us. All are linked and credited to the best of our abilities in hopes of attracting more traffic to the tumblrs and photographers who have blessed us with this imagery. The inclusion of a photograph here should not be interpreted as an assertion of the model’s gender identity or sexual orientation. If there is a photo included here that belongs to you and you want it removed, please email bren [at] autostraddle dot com and it will be removed promptly, no questions asked.
Those shoes have given me so many ideas!
Is one of them to dance on stage while wearing them at a queer bar. Or is that just me?
I was thinking of a hogtie variant but I’m sure it’s not just you!
“Being single can make you better in relationships.”
Oh man, I am going to be SO GOOD at being in relationships.
Yeah, that was my thought too. I’m 34 and I’ve always been single, so now I’m wondering if there’s a limit.
lim(x->∞) f(x) = ?
I apologize for the math joke… I truly do.
I understood fuck all about that joke, but the “lim” and “f(x)” bits took me to a kpop place, which is where I love to be!
Lim! <3
Amber <3<3<3
I would guess that, assuming we define
x = time being single
and the y-axis as representative of the dependent variable, that is,
y = amount of super relationshiposity gained from being single
the function would be a horizontally asymptotic one.
If we pretend this is biophysics instead of just calculus, and we also pretend this is a binding curve, then the diffusion coefficient (aka, the point at which you reach 50% bound, or in this case, 50% of maximum superior relationshiposity gained from being single) is probably around oh, say, 10 years** of knowing oneself…after one becomes a mature adult. So you reached 50% superior relationshiposity just a few years ago, assuming you were a mature adult at age 18. So don’t worry, you’re still gaining. It’s just no longer an approximately linear relationship between x and y.
**Note: This hypothetical equation was derived from purely self-reported data from only one subject. And the subject was probably biased. As was the researcher. Because the subject and the researcher are one and the same.
If only there was a comment award for world’s geekiest comment thread.
I’ve got a physics test today that I’m really worried about, and this gave me just the laugh I needed right now. Thank you, Kate!
@Blackmar: Sorry it made you feel dumb, but I’m glad you enjoyed the joke all the same.
Always happy to be the bringer of nearly nonsensical mathematical humor, especially to other mathle(te)sbians.
That joke made me feel totally dumb, but I like it!
“orgasms increase pain tolerance”
. . .please tell me I’m not the only person who uses a headache as an additional excuse to HAVE sex. tamps ’em down every time, I swear.
You are not the only person who does this.
Worrrrd.
I’m kind of disappointed in the photos that accompany these posts lately. Small waist, big boobs, arched back, long hair. I don’t inherently have a problem with any of these things, but a little variety to represent your readership would be refreshing. Kind of feel like I’m at The Chive if you know what mean.
They had a trans woman shown(which is always great to see) two weeks ago. And the last two pictures in this week post are pretty much saying the opposite of what you are saying.
There’s even a trans woman (Geena Rocero) in this set of pics, too.
These pictures do feature a diverse group of women. Of the nine women in these images five are women of color, two (possibly three) are plus size, at least one is transgender, one has short hair, and several have small breasts.
Honestly, I’ve noticed the opposite – the featured images are substaintally more diverse than when I started following Autostraddle several years ago, and I really appreciate that. In particular, I’m very happy that trans women are starting to be featured more regularly. One of my closest friends is trans and told me that she was really hurt by the fact that women like her were almost never presented as desirable (at least not in a respectful way), even on sites like Autostaddle that strive for inclusivity. I’m very glad to see that that problem has been addressed.
The one thing I do agree with is that the majority of the models in these posts tend to be femme of center. While I enjoy that personally, it would be nice to see a bit more diversity of gender expression. Still, overall I’ve been really impressed.
As the butch human that is NSFW Carolyn’s other half, I can tell you that every week she laments out loud that she can’t find more photos of diverse butch humans! Yo photographers of the world, GET ON THIS!!!
I was actually thinking that I was happy with the photos this week. Of course I love and think it’s so important for Autostraddle to feature all types of women, but I think there’s a tendency for folks to forget that there are readers on here who may have a similar body type as or are attracted to these types of women, and they still deserve to be represented as part of the community of this website. Queer ladies are allowed to be attracted to (and be!) girls with long, pretty hair and big boobs. And as the commenters above me stated, the women included this week are still diverse. Anyway! Everyone’s attracted to different things, and Autostraddle always does a fantastic job at representing that, and I don’t believe this post failed to live up to that reputation.
The orgy read was excellent.
Just one thing: Greta Christina, the author of the orgy piece, isn’t a lesbian. She’s a well-known bi activist? …also, it’s a bit odd that ‘lesbian’ is the assumption that you’d make, in an article that talks about her ongoing (if a bit unhealthy) relationship with a guy.
Just sayin’, y’know?
Gret Christina refers to herself as a “dyke” in the piece, which is a slur that means “lesbian,” so that is probably where the misunderstanding came from
Actually I’m pretty sure that I’ve never ever in my life had the experience of someone calling me a dyke, my explaining that I am in fact bi, and them taking it back.
Cause that’s not how slurs work.
Also, bi+ women have been calling ourselves dykes for as long as lesbians have, y’know?
I’m bisexual, and I sometimes refer to myself as a lesbian. Whether I want to say “women who are only interested in women,” “women who aren’t interested in men,” or “women who are interested in women,” ‘lesbian’ is the word I use. The third definition includes me, so when that’s the one I have in mind, I’m a lesbian, and so are lots of other bisexual/pansexual women.
So it makes sense to me that “learning I’m attracted to women” is expressed as “learning I’m a dyke” or “learning she’s a lesbian.”
I hope that at least you don’t tell that to people who are unaware of such context.
For ‘regular’ straight people, lesbian means just homosexual woman, equivalent of gay man. They are also aware of popular homophobic myths about lesbians, that we just need “a right man” to “turn” us, and that deep down we want a d**k. That’s the kind of message that’s also pushed by television, as “lesbian having sex with a man and loving it” remains very overused trope.
So I hope you understand what kind of ideas you would give to straight people by telling them you’re lesbian and also expressing bisexual behavior/feelings.
I don’t usually describe myself as a lesbian, specifically, but I sometimes use the word to refer to the group of women who are interested in women. It’s usually clear from context, and if it’s not, I make it clear.
I definitely understand why that bothers you. That trope is harmful to bisexual women as well as lesbians, because it’s often used to erase bisexuality by describing bisexual women as “former lesbians” when they’re involved with men.
Greta Christina’s usage of “dyke” is pretty offensive because she’s not a lesbian. Isn’t this a case of bi-erasure and lesbophobia due to her usage of lesbian terminology (which is still a slur when used by non-lesbians) and the implication here that what she wrote about has anything to do with actual lesbians? And her article is pretty awful as well.
i am just gonna leave this here for all of you.
bisexual women are entitled to reclaim the term dyke just as much as lesbians:
scientia-rex.tumblr.com/post/79911399371/hi-there-do-you-believe-bi-people-should-be-able
I have always thought of bi-erasure as when someone erases or otherwise redefines the experiences of another person…not when someone uses unclear, unconventional or unusual terminology to describe their own experience.
I think the OP had in mind subgroup of bisexual people I encounter regularly, who try to argue that everyone is bisexual and sexuality in general is fluid, so therefore labels mean nothing and they can co-opt whatever label they want.
In some ways such stance is bi-erasure, because it’s coming from POV that if everyone is bisexual, no one really is, but it’s lesbophobic first and foremost, since it focuses on re-claiming lesbian label and since it fits perfectly with already popular homophobic myths about lesbian sexuality, that we’re not “really” gay unlike gay men and, like Riese noted in reference to “Faking It”, because of the message pushed to us by pop-culture that for women, women alone are never enough.
Your comment is what’s offensive and biphobic, not the word usage you are objecting to. And attempting to appropriate social justice language to rationalize your own biases is gross on top of gross.
Her comment is biphobic because she called out bisexual woman mislabelling herself as “dyke” (which, let’s be honest, is understood by straight majority as synonym of “lesbian”, therefore that woman’s use of this word encouraged damaging homophobic myths about lesbian sexuality)?
A bisexual woman can call herself a dyke proudly. You might not like it, but that is kind of too bad.
Dyke is not just a synonym for lesbian, it is a word that has been reclaimed by all women who show love for other women.
Like I said, I encounter regularly bisexual women (or if you prefer, women who are sexually attracted to both sexes, who sleep regularly with both sexes, some of them being even in relationships with men) who straight up call themselves lesbians proudly, so that’s not surprising.
Doesn’t change the fact it is affecting lesbian visibility and it is encouraging dangerous homophobic ideas about our sexuality. Not only when it comes to men, but also lesbians themselves. I know a girl who tried “reparative therapy” because of internalized homophobia, “open minded” friends who told her that “sexuality is fluid” and because of seeing examples of lesbian identified women who were in fact bisexual. So if they are lesbians and can like men, she thought, therefore she just needs help to discover that hidden part of her sexuality.
So, because you have met a few bi women who misuse the word lesbian…you get to police how all women identify themselves. Sounds legit.
Sorry for my inability to stay civil, but bisexual woman struggle to have any self-esteem or sense of self-worth. If a bi woman wants to use the word dyke, more power to her.
“So, because you have met a few bi women who misuse the word lesbian…you get to police how all women identify themselves”
I never did that so please don’t throw untrue accusations. What I’m doing all this time is explaining why such actions are damaging to women like me, something you don’t refer to at all, but instead resolve to attacks like this and arguments like “but bisexual women have it worse”.
Whether I want to say “women who are only interested in women,” “women who aren’t interested in men,” or “women who are interested in women,” ‘lesbian’ is the word I use. The third definition includes me, so when that’s the one I have in mind, I’m a lesbian, and so are lots of other bisexual/pansexual women. I’ve heard other WSW (monosexual and multi) do the same, and I don’t consider it bi-erasure unless the definitions get scrambled – for example, we’re all interested in women, so we’re all lesbians. Oh, we’re all lesbians, so we all knows that sex with boys is gross.
I stand by my choice to describe myself as part of a community of WSW (or WIW) by using this term. We don’t have everything in common, but we have some important things in common – some joys, some struggles, some exes – and I deserve those connections.
So it makes sense to me that “learning I’m attracted to women” is expressed as “learning I’m a dyke” or “learning she’s a lesbian.” As long as she doesn’t say “so then OF COURSE I had to break up with my boyfriend” it’s not bi-erasure.
out of curiosity, is there then a word that you would use separately to describe women who are ONLY interested in other women? for myself, I use “lesbian” as a label when that exclusivity is what I am describing, and “queer” when I don’t feel the need to accentuate it.
Hm, good question.
That strategy makes sense too, and I guess I use ‘queer’ more often than I use ‘lesbian’ when I’m talking about that broader category. However, ‘queer women’ doesn’t always fit either, because some queer women aren’t interested in women (some trans women, for example). Then I would feel like I’m erasing them!
No, I don’t have any word that I only use for women who are only interested in women. I don’t have a specific word for the broader category of “all women who are interested in women,” or for the narrower “women who are only interested in women.” I guess that’s why so many women use the word ‘lesbian’ for both, and everything in between.
It’s something to think about – I can see why that would bother some exclusive lesbians, but at some point, I just have to say “right now I’m using this word to represent this concept” and then use it, or everything I say will be… well, as long as this comment. I am mindful that I don’t inappropriately conflate those different definitions, to generalize or erase people’s experiences.
When people say things like “ALL wlw can call themselves lesbians” what they are really saying, whether they realize it or not, is “lesbians don’t deserve to have words that accurately describe them.” It’s hurtful.
Yet this discussion started out talking about a different word…
Yes, women who are only interested in women deserve a word that specifically describes them. Also, other WIW deserve a word for the entire community that recognizes them as part of it – this is important to me because I often pick up on messages that WIW spaces don’t belong to me.
I wish there were another word for all women who are interested in women, one that doesn’t have any other meaning. As it is, I have to borrow the words lesbian or queer, both of which are arguably problematic because they have other meanings (one narrower, one broader). Until we have a specific word for that, the best I can do is be mindful and clear about what I mean each time I use these words.
Yeah, I get it, I wish there was a better word too. Usually I use wlw (women who love women) or lbpq but like no one outside of small internet circles know what they mean lol
Yes, thank you.
What words do women-who-only-like-other-women have to describe themselves that haven’t been co-opted by people of other sexualities?
“Gay” can refer to both men and women, same with “homosexual.” “Homosexual woman” just sounds awful, dated, and clinical. “Dyke” is used by women of varying sexualities. As demonstrated in this thread, “lesbian” is sometimes used by women who aren’t exclusively homosexual. “Queer” is another option, though many women are uncomfortable with that label for varying reasons.
While women-who-like-women-and-other-genders have plenty of potential labels they can use – queer, fluid, bi, pan, omni – lesbians don’t have a single identifying label that hasn’t been co-opted or used to describe sexual fluidity.
It’s just really, really strange how people are so unwilling to simply consider the viewpoints of exclusively homosexual women regarding this topic without resorting to attacks (not that that’s really happened in this thread) and accusations of biphobia. Most of us aren’t trying to hate on bi women for choosing to identify as whatever they’re comfortable with; we’re just trying to be heard.
Hmmm. Respectfully I’m going to state my opinion that using the term lesbian to include bisexual women is problematic. Mostly because people who are lesbians spend a lot of time explaining to men that they don’t want to sleep with them and so using lesbian to mean “women who sleep with women but are also attracted to men” will confuse people and reinforce the myth that all lesbians need is a good man.
Bisexual women are absolutely part of the queer women community, but I really feel it’s a bad idea to conflate the two terms.
When I talk about “women who sleep with women but are also attracted to men” I’m still not talking about women who just need a good man. It seems to me that anyone who believes that – about lesbian women or bisexual women – will probably believe lots of stupid things about both, no matter what words I use.
I wish there were another word for all women who are interested in women, one that doesn’t have any other meaning. As it is, I have to borrow the words lesbian or queer, both of which are arguably problematic because they have other meanings (one narrower, one broader). I don’t know of any better word for the whole group.
There is not some platoon of bisexual women out there demanding that everyone call them lesbians. That is a nonexistent, derailing argument. The author in question didn’t write a manifesto ordering that all bisexual women be included under every instance of the word “lesbian” – she wrote a personal account of an experience that led her to realize what she had in common with women who love women. The biphobia at play here is demonstrated in the way that this benign, personal, relatively insignificant stretching of a term that usually means “women who are exclusively attracted to other women” was leapt on and policed as “offensive” and “lesbophobic”.
Furthermore, this discussion is not even about the relatively neutral term “lesbian” – it is about the reclaimed term dyke, which is also used as a slur against bisexual women. What is being argued here is that bisexual woman do not have the right to reclaim and own a slur with which they have been verbally and emotionally abused, on the (HIGHLY unlikely) off-chance that it might mistakenly lead someone to think that all lesbians are open to sleeping with men. Give me a fucking break.
Guess what? Bisexual women also don’t want their identities to be misunderstood, so it’s unlikely they’ll ever get behind “lesbian” en masse as an appropriate term for themselves. Guess what else? Bisexual women also spend a lot of time explaining to plenty of men that they don’t want to sleep with them, because whenever a man assumes that a woman wants to sleep with him without actually knowing that she does, that is an unpleasant experience for the woman whether she happens to be open to dating other men or not.
In short: stop derailing. The comment was biphobic. End of story.
“In short: stop derailing. The comment was biphobic. End of story.”
Thank you, much better put than I could manage.
thank you! <3
in other news: being bisexual doesn’t necessarily mean, that you are interested in men at all.
being bisexual includes nonbinary people as well, heck, any other gender identity, and can just as well describe a person who is exclusively interested in dating and/or sleeping with women and nonbinary people.
(no, pansexuality is a different thing)
just a sidenote
I disagree with you. The term dyke isn’t used as a slur against bisexual women because people that use it understand the difference between lesbians and bisexuals, but exactly because of sort of bi-erasure (or like one of my friends was once told that “at least she’s not full dyke”). That’s why those people are just as likely to use the word “lesbo” for example. Does that mean it should be reclaimed by bisexual women too?
Please stop conflating the insults lesbo and dyke. One is a shortened form of another word. The other is a word whose origin is pretty much unknown. It seems clear that the term bulldyke came first and it was a term used to refer to butch lesbians…past that no one knows.
If that origin is true…then should only butch women use dyke? Seems like a logical conclusion from your logic.
Please, just stop trying to police other people’s self-identifying words.
What origin of this word has to do with anything? Words constantly change meaning, what matters is what people understand by them, concepts and ideas. And you need to have in mind the same word could have different meaning in different context. The term “dyke” in ‘mainstream’, as how straight, largely clueless people undestand it, remains a slur for lesbian.
So if bisexual woman uses the term ‘dyke’ to describe herself without bothering to point out that her definition of that word is different than what most people would understand by it, she’s encouraging homophobic myths and makes the world a little less safe place for women like me.
Well, thank you for proving my argument. Words change in meaning. If a girl grows up being called a dyke as food gets tossed at her in the cafeteria and then wants to reclaim the word as an adult when she is proud enough to proclaim her love for another woman…then more power to her.
The word is slang. It is not clinical. You may want to own exclusive rights to the word to protect your friends and affirm the validity of your and their identities… but you don’t get to do so at the sacrifice of bi girls. Sorry, you don’t.
Bi girls and women already have worse medical health, mental health and economic status than either straight or lesbian women. So, at the end of the day I will stand up for the right of any bi woman to reclaim the word dyke if it makes her feel even the slightest bit stronger.
Long ago when I was little and my brother was just starting college he would go around to high-schools and colleges as a speaker. It was an era when being openly gay in high-school was rare and so crowds ate up everything he had to say. Then one day an older man approached him and was very angry. He was furious that my brother had said the word queer. To him it was a slur and only a slur aimed at men like him. Using it with pride and using it to refer to both men and women…just infuriated the man. He swore up and down he would stop my brother from speaking anywhere ever again.
Sorry if you want the word dyke to have one meaning and the meaning you prefer…but language doesn’t work that way.
That’s exactly my point – when a bisexual woman calls herself ‘dyke’ when in given context she could expect that it will be understand as synonym of lesbian (so, in most situations with straight people), if she doesn’t explain anything about her own definition of that word she’s not sending a message to those people that this word could be also used by bisexuals.
What she’s doing is encouraging ideas that those people obviously have heard of before, about lesbian sexuality that it’s nothing really exclusive, that it’s something “fluid” and encompassing men now and then. Which is damaging and deserves being called out.
I doubt many bigots would stop to ask a queer woman whether she also likes men before calling her a dyke.
Or “lesbo”. Does that mean this term should also be reclaimed by bisexual women? Not to mention this discussion quickly moved to reclaiming the word “lesbian” itself.
Derogatory words can be misapplied…but that doesn’t mean you get to come along and claim exclusive ownership to the ones you want.
When I was a teenager I was called faggot, lesbo, dyke and just about any other queer associated insult (including all the trans ones…that I will not list). I don’t claim any ownership of lesbo or faggot, but I am a bit of a dyke. I don’t think I will go around introducing myself that way, but I sure as hell will stand up for another bi woman’s right to use that word.
You know, I wouldn’t be so militant about it if there was different cultural context this situation took place in. If lesbian sexuality was respected and taken as seriously as gay male sexuality, I honestly wouldn’t find any problem in it. But that’s not the case. Lesbian characters in television are constantly falling to “lesbian having sex with a man and loving it” trope, gay male celebrities like Frankie Grande say that gay men are born gay but lesbians chose it because they were hurt by men and in general the message that all women are bisexual that is pushed into us focuses particularly on homosexual women.
So it’s not my whim, but I honestly perceive such actions as damaging and dangerous to women like me, since they are affecting our visibility, and I know that visibility has a great power and influence on our lives, in good or bad way.
Maybe, just maybe, consider the possibility that you are hurting other people by being so definitive in your position.
My mother is a lesbian and I grew up with people talking trash about her…so trust me, I know people don’t respect lesbian identities.
However, disrespecting another group is not going to help. I know you see their use of the word dyke as disrespectful, but please take a moment and consider their experience, their life and their struggles.
as an aside, I see a HUGE difference between saying “I am a bit of a dyke” and just blanket-stating “I am a dyke”. I think the nuance allows for open-minded interpretation and conversation, and to me, THAT makes all the difference in the world.
I think the gist of what I’m seeing is that we can either:
1) avoid hurt feelings on either end by utilizing specificity (“I am a bit of a dyke”, “I prefer lesbian relationships”) over hard and fast statements (“I am a dyke/lesbian”).
* this goes for lesbians, too. instead of saying “I had a bisexual phase”, it might be more productive/protective to instead choose “I did date men for a while; that’s how I know I’m not interested.” or similar, because it is my understanding that “I had a bisexual phase” is just as hurtful/demeaning as “I had a lesbian phase”.
2) avoid hurt feelings by actively choose more general words, like “queer”.
or
3) we all use whichever words we want, accept, like adults, that our choices will hurt some people, apologize, take responsibility, and move on.
yes?
I must say that I am amazed at such a long discussion about the protocol of ownership of any label, especially a slur label.
I don’t like baseless accusations like this one or one above. If you say that I’m disrespecting bisexual people explain why exactly. Do you mean my objections for using the label ‘dyke’ because of the reasons I profoundly explained, which aren’t based on any prejudice? There is conflict of interests here, but we don’t live in vacuum and I just think that the right to self-identify however you want has just lesser value than right to be safe, especially when even lots of bisexual people themselves don’t share your views on that matter.
Of course I can’t impose anything on you, I just hoped that my explanations would reach your conscience. Not using the term ‘dyke’ doesn’t make your struggle any harder, while using it has such effect on our struggle.
I couldn’t tell, Amelia, if your comment was aimed at me, so I thought I’d take chance to clarify.
I don’t think you’re being disrespectful of bisexual women. I agree completely with all your points, particularly in regards to safety and perpetuating tropes. I have enough sh*t to deal with as a femme lesbian without having to try to undo male perceptions that they’ve been able to “flip” one of my kind before. I went to college in South Dakota, and that attitude got me followed home from work (at a sports bar) by leering frat boys ALL the time. I was lucky enough to be in a neighborhood with three cops, but not everybody has my luck.
I also think, in fairness, we (lesbians) need to examine our own language to make sure we aren’t hurting others’ feelings, too. have I seen any examples of slurring or hurtful statements in here? no. should we still be mindful, as we are asking others to be? yes.
Jess, that’s exactly my point, it depends completly on context and I wanted to point out myself that “bit of a dyke” has completely different meaning than just “dyke”. In the end, it’s about the ideas that stand behind those words. In this case it’s word associated by most people with the idea of women who are only attracted to women (and dyke is commonly understood as a word for that idea, for such women), but that’s not the only thing, since the same people are also aware of the ideas that such women don’t really exist, that “lesbians just need to meet the right man” or less elegantly “they just need to take a d**k”.
So if bisexual women want to use the word ‘dyke’, be my guest, but at very least be extra careful and be sure that you did everything to not give people ideas that would encourage homophobic myths about lesbians.
Jess, sorry, that was directed to Emma – I started writing my reply before I noticed that you wrote your comment.
I mean, my previous comment responding to accusations that I disrespect bisexual people was directed to Emma.
Ok, I’m pretty over lesbians gay-splaining to bisexual women about how “unsafe” and uncomfortable it feels to get unwanted attention from men.
BISEXUAL WOMEN GET UNWANTED ATTENTION FROM MEN ALSO. LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF IT.
Who gets sexually fetishized on pretty much every online dating site? Who gets actively hunted as a “unicorn”? Who gets endless invitations to take part in threesomes? Who gets to deal with society’s constant assumptions that they’re up for everything and everyone?
Bisexual women, that’s who.
I don’t know if one or the other group has it “worse”, but there is absolutely no fucking question in my mind that bisexual women have PLENTY of experience with how unsafe, uncomfortable and unpleasant it feels to have people assume they’re ready to jump on a dick.
Icky dudes hitting on you. Is. Not. The. Fault. Of Bisexual. Women.
Amelia, I am tired of trying to dissuade you of your privileged notions. I said I would only say “a bit of a dyke” about myself…mostly because I feel unsafe even flirting with other women. And despite how timid I am using that word, you don’t get to tell me how much of a dyke I am.
For any other random bi girl or woman, if they want to just use the word dyke, good for them.
It is not their responsibility to educate people about the authenticity of your identity.
And it is not my responsibility to convince you of your intolerance. The way you are telling people they have to behave or talk a certain way that you find acceptable is intolerance. It doesn’t matter if you see it or not, the reality is you are being cruel and insensitive.
Emma, you’re the one resorting to name-calling and personal attacks here, so it’s really disgusting that you accuse me of “intolerance” right after showing that you absolutely don’t care how your actions affect other people. I think Jess and I presented good points, which you didn’t bother to refer to at all, instead showing stance that everyone who disagrees with you is intolerant bigot and everything you do should be left unquestioned.
And now you tell me it’s not your responsibility to educate people about the authenticity of lesbian identity, which given the context of discussion, means that you want to call yourself “dyke” when people will think it means “lesbian”, and don’t care at all that it could encourage dangerous views about lesbian sexuality in them.
Sorry, but by such extremely selfish stance you’re presenting here you’re doing exactly the same thing as people behind homophobic tropes in television portraying lesbians sleeping with men and loving it. And I assure you, people who call you out for it are not the ones who are prejudiced and intolerant here.
Chandra – you’re trying to make it a “lesbian vs bisexuals” issue which couldn’t be farther from truth. The discussion is about bisexual women presenting themselves to people as lesbians, women who are attracted only to women.
I explained already that I have no problem when bisexual woman who uses the term “dyke” does it when she’s sure no one will understand it as synonym of “lesbian”, so in case of most situations with straight people, explain that her definition of “dyke” is broader and encompasses both bi and gay women.
But when said bisexual woman does it knowing it could be understood as a lesbian, by people who could be aware of her attraction to men and women, she’s responsible of encouraging dangerous homophobic myths about lesbian sexuality.
And one more thing – calling me “privileged” knowing nothing about me, apparently just because I’m lesbian and Emma is bisexual, which shows the true prejudice here.
I live in Poland, where there isn’t even option of civil partnership legal. I’m corrective rape survivor. In fact, all of my out lesbian friends have been victims of sexual violence based on the premise of their orientation, which where I live is connected to another problem, since because of the domination of Catholic Church, abortion is illegal (theoretically in case of rape it is allowed, but in reality according to official government statistics for last few years there was no legal abortion done on this basis, largely because women who want to do it legally are bullied).
But yeah, I’m privileged because I’m a lesbian.
“And one more thing – calling me “privileged” knowing nothing about me, apparently just because I’m lesbian and Emma is bisexual, which shows the true prejudice here.”
Actually, we are all privileged in some way or another. I am white and college educated. You (I am assuming since you did not mention otherwise) are cisgendered and able bodied. There is nothing wrong with being privileged, but when we leverage that privilege to oppress others it is wrong.
In the united states, lesbian women are privileged over bisexual women. I grew up with a lesbian mother who quite definitely felt bisexuality did not exist. All of her friends agreed (or at least didn’t speak up). I understand her frustration at being misunderstood by relatives and the media…but it did not justify her hurting other people.
“I live in Poland, where there isn’t even option of civil partnership legal.”
I may be incorrect in this assumption, but is English a second language? Perhaps this is part of the problem we are running into in this discussion. It is important when talking to people in a learned language to remember that subtle differences in slang or other highly changing words can cause great confusion. Dyke is not the same word as lesbian. The words are often interchanged, but they are not the same thing.
For example, I read the comic series, “Dykes to Watch Out For” as a child. Now, yes there are male and straight characters in the series, but it is pretty clear that the dykes in the comic are the main characters. I remember discussions about this very topic from when I was a teenager babysitting for the children of my mother’s lesbian friends. Some of them were angry that bisexual women were even included in the comic.
Let me be clear, I am terribly sorry for any suffering you have endured, but please do not try and police the use of the word dyke. I know nothing of Polish language or culture, but if the word dyke has been imported into use in Poland…please keep in mind that the way it is used in the United States where the word originated may be different. (And even here some people might agree with your view, but many people will not.)
But yeah, I’m privileged because I’m a lesbian.
Darn it, I should not write posts when I am half awake…I was going to try and say something about your final line:
“But yeah, I’m privileged because I’m a lesbian.”
but then I forgot it was cut and pasted to the bottom of my response. I did not leave it there to be flippant or disrespectful, it was completely a mistake. I don’t think I can edit my old post, so please accept my apology for the mistake.
I sincerely hope you try and understand that we are communicating across cultural boundaries and that though this exchange has become quite heated…I really am not trying to anyway encourage bisexual women to co-opt or otherwise confuse the public’s perception of lesbians. I am merely trying to explain that the word dyke is not the same word as lesbian.
first.
I am aghast that the response to “I am a corrective rape survivor in a country with no legal recognition of my partnerships or access to abortion” is, “oh, so you don’t understand because English isn’t your first language”, and “you’re still privileged.”
second.
“I am merely trying to explain that the word dyke is not the same word as lesbian.”
From Miriam-Webster:
2dyke
noun \ˈdīk\
Definition of DYKE
often disparaging
: lesbian
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dyke
might the meaning of the word change over time? yes.
do bi women deal with the slur, too? yes.
but do the majority of straight people understand dyke to mean “lesbian”? yes.
Way to jump in at the end and get righteous. This whole discussion started because someone was offended at a linked-to-article in which the author used the word dyke to self-identify. Then other people conflated the words lesbian and dyke.
If you want to imagine that I am attacking someone, go ahead, but the actual sequence of events does not match up to your perception. Yes, Amelia has been traumatized in her life, but no amount of trauma justifies policing other people’s identities. Period.
I have had my access to education taken away from me twice, been beaten into unconsciousness and left crippled and told it was my fault for encouraging them, housing taken away once, been denied medical care and had to turn down jobs because of the lack of legal protection in my state. But being oppressed in any number of ways as a young trans woman does give me the right to police other people’s identities.
Having bad things happen does not change what is the right way to treat people. Respect them. Listen to them. Allow them to self-identify and relate their own experiences.
I am terribly saddened by what she must have endured. But using your own pain as justification for stepping on other people is not okay. Using her pain to try and bully me into being quiet is worse.
“Having bad things happen does not change what is the right way to treat people. Respect them. Listen to them. Allow them to self-identify and relate their own experiences.”
You want people to respect and listen to others, yet you have no problem with disrespecting and ignoring Amelia and her experiences, calling her a cruel bully, and hand-waving away everything she’s said with, “Well, you’re privileged”?
Absolutely astounding.
Amelia, you are either misreading my comments or conflating what I’ve said with things that other people have said. I don’t need you to explain to me what this discussion is about, thank you. You are attributing opinions to me that I do not hold and never stated.
Monosexual women who love women wanting to have an exclusive label of their own is fine. “Dyke”, however, is not that label. It just isn’t, and it never has been. It was created as an insult against ALL women who love/date/sleep with other women, INCLUDING bisexuals. Bisexual women have ALWAYS been a part of the group that reclaims it. The reason this has not been noticed or reflected in current mainstream usage of the word is precisely because BISEXUALITY IS INVISIBLE.
Denying bi women’s right to fully claim a term that they have historically always claimed is biphobic.
Making it the sole responsibility of bi women to explain the nuances of this term to clueless straight people, as if it is somehow their fault that it is misunderstood, is biphobic.
Using the circular reasoning that “most people already think it means lesbian” — which is only true because bisexuals have been ignored since the beginning of time — is biphobic.
Putting the responsibility for homophobic myths on the shoulders of bi women is biphobic.
Implying that unwanted attention from men is somehow more “damaging” or “unsafe” for lesbians than it is for bi women is biphobic.
You seem to be quite blind to the fact that everything you are saying reveals very deep-seated biases within yourself about the true nature of this issue.
„I may be incorrect in this assumption, but is English a second language? Perhaps this is part of the problem we are running into in this discussion. /…/ Dyke is not the same word as lesbian. The words are often interchanged, but they are not the same thing.”
I don’t engage in internet discussion since yesterday. I have internet friends from America and UK and I’m familiar with English pop culture, including queer one, as well as news informations, so I’ve seen in what context that word is used and what does it describe. All dictionaries, including the one Jess mentioned, say the same thing – dyke means lesbian.
Therefore, if you really want to use that word please explain that to straight people you would present yourself to as a „dyke”, since most likely they have the same informations, and when they’ll hear that you’re „dyke”, they’ll think it means that you’re telling them that you’re lesbian.
Emma: “But using your own pain as justification for stepping on other people is not okay. Using her pain to try and bully me into being quiet is worse.”
I don’t try to „police” your identity. I have a problem with the term „dyke” being used by bisexuals for the reasons I profoundly explained before, people thinking it means those women are gay which would lead to confirmation of damaging myths about lesbian sexuality, but I never told you that you’re not allowed to use that word. All I did was asking you to make sure that no one will think it means that you’re a lesbian, since most people understand those words as synonyms.
But in response to that, you tried to shame me, attack me, and used plight of other bisexuals to silence me. My mention of being corrective rape survivor wasn’t to win anyone’s sympathy – it was in response to your another attack, that because I’m a lesbian I am somehow „privileged” and I just couldn’t hold it anymore.
But even with that, you try to twist things around and use it to convince people that I said it to bully you. I would never expect to hear something like that from another queer woman, regardless of any disagreements.
Chandra – „Monosexual women who love women wanting to have an exclusive label of their own is fine. “Dyke”, however, is not that label.”
Explain that please to straight people you’re going to present yourself as a „dyke” to then. How would they know that, given that all dictionaries state that „dyke” means „lesbian”:
http://www.merriam-webster.com
often disparaging
: lesbian
http://www.collinsdictionary.com
noun
1. (slang) a lesbian
http://dictionary.cambridge.org
› slang a lesbian . Many people consider this word offensive
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com
informal
A lesbian.
http://www.wordreference.com
[Slang (disparaging and offensive).]
female homosexual;
lesbian.
For me, that’s the whole issue here. That’s what people understand by it, so if you’re going to use that word, at least make sure that no one will think that you’re “lesbian who’s attracted to men”. This is especially important in context of pervasive lesbian erasure, of women who are attracted only to women.
It’s not only in pop culture, where “lesbian having sex with a man and loving it” remains extremely overused trope, which seems to become more and more disgusting lately as the next boundaries are broken (like with “Waterloo Road”, where lesbian character was practically sexually harassed by a man after he found out about her, which was shown to ultimately pay off as they ended up having passionate sex, or movie like “The Humbling” being made and mainstream audience and critics apparently having no problem with it).
It’s also (pseudo) science – I’m sure you have heard of the claims that „all women are aroused by everything” – the research that stated so had coverage on the biggest newspapers, insinuating that „all women are bisexual”. When that research has been debunked (as in the old research, there was measured vaginal response, while newer research managed to measure clitoral erection, and not only it showed that those two had nothing in common, but findings of the study also suggested that vaginal reaction is „automatic preparatory response rather than genital arousal per se”), it wasn’t covered by mainstream media at all – the same happened when it comes to men, just in reverse, as there were studies which suggested that bisexual men don’t exist, and that too, had wide coverage. When it’s been debunked – no one wanted to mention it.
And that payed off and results in lesbophobic, lesbian-erasing attitudes among „open minded” young people. It’s hard these days not to hear that „sexuality is fluid” and „no one is 100% one way or another”. Funny thing is, „sexual fluidity” was popularized by sex researcher Lisa M. Diamond, and it doesn’t mean at all what those people think it means – Diamond, because of findings of her longitudinal study, actually thinks that sexual orientation is solid and cannot change, though she has very specific definition of sexual orientation („proceptivity”, generalized sexual attraction).
As seen in internet discussions where people tend to be more honest when it comes to what they really think, „lesbian” starts to be understood as a „bisexual woman who doesn’t want to be in relationship with a man”. Sadly, it is encouraged by some queer women too. For example, have you ever seen „lesbian” subforum on Reddit? It’s full of lesbian identified women who are attracted to men (some of those accounts are probably fake, but there are also people who showed their face) who cherish each one of many straight men who come there to share their stories about their „lesbian conquests”, stating that it shows how „[lesbian] sexuality is fluid”, they even straight up advice straight men that they shouldn’t give up on their lesbian crushes, because „no one is completely gay” and even „orientation can change” (logical conclusion of „sexuality is fluid”). When some lesbian, as in, homosexual woman tries to say anything, she is bullied away.
That’s why I ask you just for that – for care. It is how it is, whenever you want it or not „dyke” is understood as synonym of „lesbian”, so if you really want to reclaim that label, inform people about your point of view instead of saving angry accusations of biphobia and prejudice only for lesbians that point out their concerns to you. Because that way, you’re not really reclaiming any label for bisexuals, you’re only making people believe that you’re a lesbian who’s into men, encouraging both lesbophobia and lesbian erasure. And yes, I know from your comments that it’s not your concern, but why do you expect then that lesbians should show you more care and respect than you show them?
Chandra – „Monosexual women who love women wanting to have an exclusive label of their own is fine. “Dyke”, however, is not that label.”
Explain that please to straight people you’re going to present yourself as a „dyke” to then. How would they know that, given that all dictionaries state that „dyke” means „lesbian”:
merriam-webster
collinsdictionary
noun
1. (slang) a lesbian
dictionary.cambridge
› slang a lesbian . Many people consider this word offensive
oxforddictionaries
informal
A lesbian.
wordreference
[Slang (disparaging and offensive).]
female homosexual;
lesbian.
For me, that’s the whole issue here. That’s what people understand by it, so if you’re going to use that word, at least make sure that no one will think that you’re “lesbian who’s attracted to men”. This is especially important in context of pervasive lesbian erasure, of women who are attracted only to women.
It’s not only in pop culture, where “lesbian having sex with a man and loving it” remains extremely overused trope, which seems to become more and more disgusting lately as the next boundaries are broken (like with “Waterloo Road”, where lesbian character was practically sexually harassed by a man after he found out about her, which was shown to ultimately pay off as they ended up having passionate sex, or movie like “The Humbling” being made and mainstream audience and critics apparently having no problem with it).
It’s also (pseudo) science – I’m sure you have heard of the claims that „all women are aroused by everything” – the research that stated so had coverage on the biggest newspapers, insinuating that „all women are bisexual”. When that research has been debunked (as in the old research, there was measured vaginal response, while newer research managed to measure clitoral erection, and not only it showed that those two had nothing in common, but findings of the study also suggested that vaginal reaction is „automatic preparatory response rather than genital arousal per se”), it wasn’t covered by mainstream media at all – the same happened when it comes to men, just in reverse, as there were studies which suggested that bisexual men don’t exist, and that too, had wide coverage. When it’s been debunked – no one wanted to mention it.
And that payed off and results in lesbophobic, lesbian-erasing attitudes among „open minded” young people. It’s hard these days not to hear that „sexuality is fluid” and „no one is 100% one way or another”. Funny thing is, „sexual fluidity” was popularized by sex researcher Lisa M. Diamond, and it doesn’t mean at all what those people think it means – Diamond, because of findings of her longitudinal study, actually thinks that sexual orientation is solid and cannot change, though she has very specific definition of sexual orientation („proceptivity”, generalized sexual attraction).
As seen in internet discussions where people tend to be more honest when it comes to what they really think, „lesbian” starts to be understood as a „bisexual woman who doesn’t want to be in relationship with a man”. Sadly, it is encouraged by some queer women too. For example, have you ever seen „lesbian” subforum on Reddit? It’s full of lesbian identified women who are attracted to men (some of those accounts are probably fake, but there are also people who showed their face) who cherish each one of many straight men who come there to share their stories about their „lesbian conquests”, stating that it shows how „[lesbian] sexuality is fluid”, they even straight up advice straight men that they shouldn’t give up on their lesbian crushes, because „no one is completely gay” and even „orientation can change” (logical conclusion of „sexuality is fluid”). When some lesbian, as in, homosexual woman tries to say anything, she is bullied away.
That’s why I ask you just for that – for care. It is how it is, whenever you want it or not „dyke” is understood as synonym of „lesbian”, so if you really want to reclaim that label, inform people about your point of view instead of saving angry accusations of biphobia and prejudice only for lesbians that point out their concerns to you. Because that way, you’re not really reclaiming any label for bisexuals, you’re only making people believe that you’re a lesbian who’s into men, encouraging both lesbophobia and lesbian erasure. And yes, I know from your comments that it’s not your concern, but why do you expect then that lesbians should show you more care and respect than you show them?
Amelia, I’m a former linguistics student. Dictionary definitions don’t impress me. Brandishing them as an attempt to win arguments about language use only shows your lack of understanding about their function. Dictionaries are not authorities on how people should use words. They merely reflect the most common current usages. And I already explained to you that the current, mainstream, bi-excluding perception of “dyke” came about in fact because of bi-erasure. I also already explained to you why your insistence that bi women should be the ones responsible for fixing this perception is biphobic.
I am tired of debating with someone who pretty clearly has no interest in looking past the end of her own nose. I won’t be reading or responding any further, as I prefer not to spend my time wanting to bash my head against a brick wall. Have a nice day.
Chandra – you wilfully ignore the problem here, as it’s not whether bisexuals have the right to use “dyke” label, but a simple call to make sure that when you do it, you don’t give straight people ideas that you’re gay. You never referred to it at all, instead resorted to attacks and lies just to push your point – silencing everyone who dares to disagree with you.
I’ll like to refer here to your points which apparently some other bisexual women think that are good:
“Denying bi women’s right to fully claim a term that they have historically always claimed is biphobic.”
That’s a lie, I didn’t deny it to you.
“Making it the sole responsibility of bi women to explain the nuances of this term to clueless straight people, as if it is somehow their fault that it is misunderstood, is biphobic.”
It’s lesbophobic knowing that your use of that word will be understood as a synonym of “lesbian” and using it anyway, since as I pointed out earlier, by doing that you don’t reclaim any label, only encourage damaging, lesbian-erasing ideas.
“Using the circular reasoning that “most people already think it means lesbian” — which is only true because bisexuals have been ignored since the beginning of time — is biphobic.”
Like above – doing nothing to actually change most people’s mind about that label, but only picking on lesbians for pointing that out – is lesbophobic.
“Putting the responsibility for homophobic myths on the shoulders of bi women is biphobic.”
That’s another lie – no one did that here. But those women
who wilfully encourage homophobic myths by presenting themselves to people in the way that they’ll understand as a “lesbian who’s into men”, and doing nothing to prevent it, like for example by explaining that “dyke” doesn’t only mean “lesbian” – is lesbophobic.
“Implying that unwanted attention from men is somehow more “damaging” or “unsafe” for lesbians than it is for bi women is biphobic.”
And this is the most disgusting of your lies. If you have any prove for that claim, cite it, but of course you can’t do that. Lies like that, or maybe simply projecting your own ideas what you think I as a lesbian must think about bisexuals, shows how deeply prejudiced you are.
amelia, chandra didn’t ‘silence’ you or anyone who ‘dares’ to disagree with her.
she tried to educate you on a subject.
but you don’t want to get educated. you want to be right, you want to win this argument – and that won’t bring this discussion anywhere.
so i completely understand her being frustrated and leaving at this point.
she actually tried to talk you/us through a lot of the points that you were bringing up, but what’s the use if you just keep insisting that you are slash want to be right?
maybe take some time and come back to this thread after you calmed down to read through this again.
i think you are missing some pretty good stuff right now.
zimt – if she tried to educate me about something, it might work better if she didn’t try to put untrue things into my mouth like claiming I don’t value safety of bisexual women as much as safety of lesbians, and didn’t throw accusations of biphobia since the very beginning.
All I ask you guys for is to take into account that your actions affect other people too. And I don’t even ask you to not claim the label the issue is about, just educate people around you about your views about it. Just short mention that you’re bi and this label encompasses both bisexuals and lesbians.
It might be so that it’s bi-erasure responsible for people’s thinking, defining dyke label as synonym to lesbian only, but that’s exactly the point – nothing will change for better for you if you’ll just make people believe you are lesbians who are into men, while it will be another brick in the wall when it comes to making situation sh*ttier for lesbians.
Hi Emma, apparently you’re not allowed to join the discussion at the end even if that’s when you found it, especially not with legitimate, accurate and hard-hitting criticism of your attitude towards Amelia the way Jess did, but listen, Jess is teaching you a valuable lesson. You’re being very patronizing towards Amelia now that’s you’ve found out English is her second language. Dismissing her on account of cross cultural differences shows how disrespectful you’re being and how intent on discrediting her without resorting to relevant arguments.
So yes, I agree with you; please listen to and respect other people. You’re reading way too much into Amelia’s objections. In no way is she using her pain “as justification for stepping on other people”. She’s voicing her concerns, her own point of view. But really, what takes the cake is the ludicrous conclusion of Amelia “using her pain to try and bully me into being quiet”. No one is bullying you. If you want to debate, you need to learn to handle criticism and above all be respectful towards the people you disagree with.
I was not dismissing her experiences in Poland, I was saying that her use of an word that originated in the U.S. might be different and that maybe she should take care when policing the use of the word by a native speaker from the country it originated in.
You can join in on this fun game of belittle the bi girl, but I am done. Autostraddle is too unfriendly of a place for bi and trans women. If they speak up they just get harassed until they are silent again.
Look back through the thread. I am not the only one objecting…I am just the one who made the mistake of replying to Amelia. I avoid self-righteous lesbians in my day to day life because I have had enough condescending bulls*&% for one lifetime, now I am done with this site as well. Congrats on “winning”.
I will continue to tell my twenty something bi friend she can use the word dyke. And you can all continue to hate bi women. Enjoy.
You really have no shame. All I did was asking you to make sure no one will think that you’re lesbian when you use the term dyke to describe yourself, since those words are widely considered to be synonyms, and there are popular damaging myths that no lesbian is really homosexual.
But in response to that, you attacked me, name-called me, shamed me, and tried to use the fact that I’m “corrective” rape survivor (which I only mentioned because I couldn’t hold it anymore because of your another attack – someone who knows nothing about me says that I’m privileged due to being lesbian) against me, stating that I said it just to “bully you into quiet”, and that it’s worse than what happened to me itself.
But you’re the bullied victim here of course.
I never said you tried to bully me with your experience, I said others were doing that. They attempted to shame me for disagreeing with you. It is a common practice among lesbians to shame any bi or trans girl for daring to disagree with an abused woman.
You completely disregard the harm you are attempting to cause by policing the use of the word dyke. Others have attempted to explain to you that you do not have the right to insist they clarify their meaning when they use the word dyke…but you continue to rant about how horrible it is for any bi girl to dare to use the word.
I am terribly sorry for the pain and suffering you have experienced…but bi girls are not responsible for this happening to you and trying to limit the self expression of bi girls and women is wrong.
You are wrong about the word dyke. It does not matter if one friend of yours or a dozen tells you that think it exclusively belongs to lesbian women…it does not.
Emma, this is what you wrote: „I am terribly saddened by what she must have endured. But using your own pain as justification for stepping on other people is not okay. Using her pain to try and bully me into being quiet is worse.”
It remains unquestionable that you implied that I mentioned it only as a „justification” for stepping on you, even though it was a response to your personal attack directed at me. But as for the last sentence, you say that it was not for me, but Jess, as she was the only person who replied to you before that comment, is that so?
„but you continue to rant about how horrible it is for any bi girl to dare to use the word.”
I really don’t know what do you think you’re going to accomplish by such obvious lies – it only takes to read a comment above yours to see that’s really not my point. Up-votes from people who think that lesbians are the worst and don’t even bother to verify you claims? Sure, but you’re only going to push away from your side anyone else.
Again – claim „dyke” label all you want. All I ask for is that when you’re using that label is just to make sure that people won’t understand it that you’re telling them that you’re a lesbian.
That was the reason why I mentioned how dictionaries (and most people tbh) define that word – as synonym of lesbian – but I didn’t mean by it that therefore you’re not allowed to use that word, but simply that because of this fact if you don’t correct their mistake, they’ll think it means you’re telling them that you’re a lesbian. A lesbian who’s into men, and you’re aware what kind of damaging myths it would encourage. Not to mention how on earth you’re going to change people’s perceptions about the meaning of that label if you’re not going to tell them that it doesn’t only mean lesbian?
But in response to that reasoning, I’ve been viciously attacked, like by Chandra, who sank so low to accuse me that „I imply that unwanted attention from men is somehow more “damaging” or “unsafe” for lesbians than it is for bi women”. She must have based that on nothing else than my concerns I described above, since nowhere I even insinuated anything like that, that safety of lesbians matters more than safety of bisexual women. And that shows siege mentality and deep prejudices toward lesbians, since apparently, maybe even subconsciously, she puts in my mouth words that she only projects from her own mind what I as a lesbian according to her must think about bisexuals.
We all take responsibility only for our own actions, but since you show nothing but support for her, can you explain it to me how behavior like that is not a showcase of bullying me into quiet?
And could you refer at last to my actual points and explain to me why asking to make sure that people will understand that you’re bisexual when telling them you’re dyke (as otherwise they’ll think you’re lesbian) is so outrageous and apparently biphobic as Chandra claimed?
i am just gonna leave this here for all of you.
bisexual women are entitled to reclaim the term dyke just as much as lesbians
http://scientia-rex.tumblr.com/post/79911399371/hi-there-do-you-believe-bi-people-should-be-able
(i accidentaly put this as an @ reply first, sorry for posting twice but i feel there should be more awareness of this, so i am gonna leave it here again)
Chandra should get to write a piece about bisexuality here on autostraddle, i feel.
*_______________*
“Ok, I’m pretty over lesbians gay-splaining to bisexual women about how “unsafe” and uncomfortable it feels to get unwanted attention from men.”
How is a comment like this allowed on a site the claims to be welcoming to all women who love women? Increasingly lesbians are made to feel unsafe and unwelcome in so called queer spaces and no one is addressing this. No one is addressing the fact that we are a minority in these spaces, after all most women who love women also love men too and we are constantly being silenced by those same women who claim to support us when in fact they only support each other. THIS is why some lesbians don’t believe in queer solidarity. THIS is why some of us refuse to enter into relationships with women who aren’t lesbians. There is a complete lack of respect for us.