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Ruth & Idgie! Molly, I am completely with you on this. Fried Green Tomatoes came out when I was a mere 7 years old, but it was the first movie I can remember being obsessed with. My mom had read the book and she took me with her to see the movie. It made a huge impact on me and I was completely smitten with Mary Louise Parker (though I didn’t really understand it at that age). And recently my mom mentioned that I had wanted to BE Idgie after I saw the movie. Relationship goals indeed.
I recommended Fried Green Tomatoes to my parents when it was showing at the dollar cinema or something. They never went to movies and I don’t even remember why they were going this time or how I ended up being asked for a recommendation. Or even if I was asked or if I just volunteered the suggestion. Anyway, maybe it was a subconscious attempt to come out to my parents. They completely missed the subtext though. Haha.
The subtext is easy to miss! Luckily the book is more maintext than the film, but it’s still not blatant.
Another one for Ruth & Idgie here
Me too for Ruth and Idgie. Though for me it wasn’t Mary Louise Parker, but Mary Louise Masterson, who was my root in Some Kind of Wonderful.
Beatrice and Benedick from Much Ado About Nothing, thank you Emma Thompson and Kenneth Branagh for being so g-d charming.
(Even as a child I found Hero and Claudio nauseating, don’t know what that says about me.)
Beatrice and Benedick all the way. Also that movie version is amazing and I love it and agree with you on the other pairings…
Deanna Troi and William Riker! My parents and I would often eat dinner together in front of Star Trek TNG, and I just remember being fascinated by the long slow build up of tension and flirtation between them – the beginning of a lifelong addiction to will they/won’t they TV pairings (hetero and otherwise, here’s looking at you WayHaught).
While I’d like to think my real life relationship goals have evolved beyond this trope, I still tend to indulge in long, drawn out, subtle flirtations while driving myself insane with desire, rather than being direct… but hey, following many months of tortured mutual pining, my boo and I have now been together for three years and are getting hitched, so I guess we get the happy Riker-Troi ending!
Deanna Troi was one of my first girl crushes. I didn’t even know that’s what that was, I just was way too invested in never missing the show and knew I was a little too interested in how low-cut her uniform was.
Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune, they are cool, fashionable, and hot together (plus they’re super heroes, which is always relationship goals)
Same for Uranus/Neptune. Even thought they were “cousins” in the US version, 10 year old me knew better ;)
And then I saw the new series ending, and I fell in love all over again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PIfPZSorwA
I wanted everything BUT the relationship from Better Than Chocolate…the apartment, the friends, the queer club, the performance night, buddies who will beat up TERFs with me…
I ended up as an Amethyst to a Pearl (minus the whole “human children are breakable?!”) thing, and I’ll take it.
I doubt the character you’re referring to was intended to be any kind of radical feminist.
Your comment so casually holds up violence against women as some sort of goal (“buddies who will beat up TERFS with me”). Why? Violence against transwomen is largely committed by men. Obviously women face relentless violence throughout life. Contributing to that horror won’t stop male violence, it’ll shift the blame for transwomens’ pain onto women, over and over. That is cruel.
Wow this is all so good.
Riese, I didn’t even watch all or even most of the office, so how am I tearing up about Jim and Pam right now?? I love your description of how they just really like each other, and how rare that is for straight couples on tv.
Alarmingly, probably my most-admired couple as a kid was Howl & Sophie from Howl’s Moving Castle, which I recently reread, and hoo boy. Like, yes, they’re both super smart and cool, but it plays into so many “he’s such a womanizer, only she gets him, he only likes her because she’s not like other girls” tropes (I mean, in a smart and cool and well-done way because Diana Wynne Jones is a master). How did I think them shouting angrily at each other and her bossing him around and throwing his makeup/hair stuff away was like, the ultimate romance?? I’m going to give my past self a gentle pass and assume that I just sort of…didn’t like boys/men (because gay), so I thought it was really rad that you could have a relationship where you openly hated your bf/husband and he sort of grumpily adored you? I’m very glad that I grew up and got over this.
I know there’s some issues (are there any books that don’t have any?)…but I still love Diana Wynne Jones books with a passion.
Frances Hardinge’s writing is probably the closest in reading feel to me atm.
I just finished “Fly by Night” and I loved the writing and story and everything about it EXCEPT I am so, so, so tired of fiction/low-tech-fantasy authors assuming that if their worlds are going to be believable, sexism and misogyny have to be present.
My most generous interpretation is that these authors are trying to show their Plucky Strong Young Female Heroines overcoming problems in an attempt to show their assumed-female young readers that they too can persevere when others don’t believe in them. Laudable enough. But I remember being a young female reader of this sort of thing and that isn’t at all the message I got. It was more, “Even in a world where I the author make up all the rules, I cannot imagine that it would be anything other than an abomination for a girl to be taught to read, or that anyone would respect girls/women equally, or that any girl striving to prove herself would NOT have to deal with condescension/leering/every manifestation of patriarchy I can think of.”
Hardinge wasn’t any worse in this respect than a lot of other authors, and better than many. But I’ve just had enough of that shit. Her writing was good enough that I did finish the book. But I’m not sure I’ll be buying any more.
Now I’m gonna get myself all worked up and forego the career in academia I just spent way too long working for and become a writer of young adult lit so I can do it right, dammit. ;)
Yes! I definitely meant more shade towards my childhood self for being so into that pairing than towards Diana Wynne Jones, whom I still love unreservedly. I think there are definitely plenty of respectful and sweet and kind romances in her books too (iirc Christopher Chant and Millie just really liked one another and were v cute as husband and wife). But for some reason as a kid I was just sooo into Howl & Sophie, above all else.
Jones also said at some point that she didn’t really get the appeal of Howl, I think, and was slightly alarmed by how many girls wrote to her saying he was “the ideal husband.” She was like, that is the opposite thing of what I meant to convey?? Not sure where I read this originally, but here’s a quote I was able to find: “And the procession of people, which was enormous already, has increased–doubled and tripled–of all the people who want to marry Howl. Now it seems to me that Howl would be one of the most dreadful husbands one could possibly imagine. But there are these thousands of girls who write and say “Is Howl real? I want to marry him.” All around the world. About the only place where they don’t seem to be wanting to marry him is India, I think. But everywhere else–Thailand, Taiwan, New Zealand, Spain, massive amounts from England and huge amounts from America too. It’s extraordinary.” (from https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/authors/interviews/article/5902-q-a-with-diana-wynne-jones.html).
Diana Wynne Jones! I still love Howl even though I know it’s all a little questionable. But I think she writes stronger friendships than romances
Yes! So true. Gah, I know, even as I was thinking “this is so alarming that I thought this was THE MOST romantic,” I still couldn’t help loving him/the book so much. There’s also a lot of clever/scathing social criticism that I didn’t quite pick up on as a kid. And (as I quoted above), I think Diana herself was like, guys, no, stop idealizing Howl, he is a soft-hearted adorable monster.
I was also very invested into Howl and Sophie as a kid? But uh….looking back despite the heteronormative brainwashing making me think it was HOWL that I was invested in, it was really Sophie.
Yes!! I didn’t really care that he kept disappearing for long periods of time, I just wanted to read more about Sophie’s awesome adventures/wanted her to come into her own powerful witchcraft and blossom as a beautiful terrifying sorceress. Wow, can’t believe I fully missed that, I just def described a crush, huh.
Please enjoy this slightly off-topic comment:
Persuasion IS the most romantic Jane Austen book. Darcy would never say “you pierce my soul”! When he said “dearest, loveliest Elizabeth” it was the least believable line in the whole book (was it in the book or just the 1995 miniseries? Don’t get me started on the ending of the 2005 movie where I wanted to VOMIT at what they did with the ending but let’s not go there it only leads to fisticuffs)!
Can I vote for an Anne Elliot/Elizabeth Bennet femslash pairing? None of Austen’s men deserve them.
Jim and Pam were definite relationship goals for me for a while. Maybe it was because at the core of it, they were friends and at the height of my Office phase I was kind of in love with my best friend… whoops…
(somewhat related: would it be gay to buy your “bff” a teapot and fill it with cute little memories like Jim did for Pam? And like, maybe you went to at least 4 different stores because none of the teapots looked quite right and it had to be perfect? That’s like super platonic, right?)
UGH THE TEAPOT WAS SO F*CKING CUTE I WISH I’D MENTIONED THE TEAPOT!!!
I friggin love this post! And it’s something I think about often. I think Jo and Blair from the Facts of Life were my first gal pal #goals because they would argue and fight and sometimes legitimately just hit each other in the face, but were always willing to fight for and stick up for one another.
Jo and Blair were so so gay
I am cry at this list, because I recently flew to close to the sun and then it went away. Jim and Pam is a great one, and for years gave me hope that maybe the friendship I had with this woman, my bff could turn into theirs, romantic. Riese made a great point about it not being really gendered, never really put it together that way.
Willow and Oz! Oz was the perfect boyfriend, just so chill and understanding about absolutely everything. I always searched for a partner like Oz but wound up becoming more like him myself instead, because I’m of the belief that if we were all a little more like Oz the world would be a better place. So there.
PS. I’m kinda scared to ask in case a thousand angry lesbians reach through the screen and strangle me to death but… Am I the only gay lady in the world who hated Tara???
PPS. I even quite liked Kennedy so…come at me
Oh god THANK YOU. I infinitely preferred Willow’s relationship with Oz. Also Tara bugged the hell out of me.
So…there’s at least two of us gay ladies who think that way…that doubles our chances of fighting back any angry hordes, right? ?
Tara also bugged the hell out of my wife, but then again her favorite characters were Faith and Gloria, so…
I definitely preferred Oz too :)
Arisa (Uotani) and (Saki) Hana(jima) in Fruits Basket. They are so different from each other, and yet accept and complement each other fully.
Also they were always canon in my head and I just mentally edited out the problematic straight parts.
Hey Riese have you heard the gospel of This But Lesbian Jim (twinfantasy.tumblr.com/tagged/tblj)
… lucy, i have not
Willow and Tara. I remember writing a fan letter as a sophomore in high school to Amber Benson (Tara), telling her how my girlfriend and I went through a similar story to season 6 because we broke up for a bit and then got back together. This was two days before THATseason 6 episode so she probably thought I was nuts.
Heather, I’m so glad you put Elizabeth & Darcy on here. You articulate the reasons I rate them so much better than I could.
Also this -> “after I read it I knew I’d never be happy in a relationship unless I found someone who could sharpen and comfort me in equal measure.
I have an important follow-up question for Vanessa: whereas Ann M. Martin is a confirmed woman who loves women, and whereas Mary Anne is the character she related to the most, who do you think Martin shipped with Mary Anne?
I am tempted to say Mallory, who hated boys as much as gym, but maybe that’s too obvious.
I feel like it’s gotta be Kristy.
kristy as OTP for sure!
Also had a hard time thinking of any fictional couples that I admired and suddenly remembered that that’s part of why I continued with children’s fiction. Because I got so frustrated with all the relationships in adult books, and finding them all to be so stupid. I generally could never understand why most couples were together when they didn’t seem to communicate, inspire each other, or contribute to any kind of greater understanding. I know, very judgmental. Honestly, I still feel similar for most fiction. Which is why Jeanette Winterson is a fave, and why I loved Katherena Vermette’s “The Break, along with those few books that really delve into why people feel the way they do and how they relate to others, and how they may change.
I didn’t mean to sound like the crotchety aunty…! And I have really enjoyed reading everyone’s posts :)
I feel like a such a dork for admitting this, but a fictional couple that I really admire are Aule and Yavanna from “The Silmarillion”. At first glance, Aule and Yavanna have little in common; heck, the book dedicates an entire chapter to a disagreement they have. But during this dispute, both Aule and Yavanna were motivated by the same thing: love for their respective creations. While Yavanna fears what the dwarves will do to her forests, and celebrates the creation of the Ents; at no point does she seek to destroy the dwarves or tell Aule that he was wrong to have created them. Aule and Yavanna taught me that I while I can and will fight with people I love; I can stand up for my own desires without crushing theirs, and that if I handle the situation calmly and maturely something good might come out of the whole thing. Both Aule and Yavanna act as mentors to the elves, and are pretty much the only Valar couple-with the possible exception of Manwe and Varda-in which both are considered equally powerful and important. Plus, from my perspective, both Aule and Yavanna seem like they would understand grief, regret, loss, and fear in a way most of the other Valar can’t.
Sorry for dumping that essay on you. I’ll leave before the cool girls come and beat me up for my lunch money.
Original Dan and Rosanne
Morticia and Gomez
The relationship goals they inspired
1) Being a sovereign with a loyal vassal
2) All that affection and playfulness
I can only recall 2 solid memories of my parents being affectionate and playful with each other, the rest of it a Marie and Frank Barone-Seinfieldish mashup of loud acrimony.
So Addams Family Values is important me and so is original Rosanne because it showed fighting and making up. Which is not something my parents did when I was growing up.
Also I could on and on about what sublime really means, it means something that inspires fear and awe. Like a god or demon.
“Anyway, this is probably why I prefer silently pining after people instead of having fulfilling human relationships.”
SAME
Now I finally know who to blame.
I don’t think I ever saw the relationship I wanted modelled either in media or in real life growing up. I would probably never have figured out what I wanted or needed if I hadn’t spent so much time ages 16-22 posting on and moderating a relationship and sex advice forum for young adults.
Having grown up and finally stopped repressing my queerness, though, I’m finally seeing my kind of relationship for the first time. And it’s thanks to queer people queering the media. I’m finally seeing couples that lift each other up, couples who praise each other in public, couples who communicate, couples who are equals, couples without gender bullshit built into all of their interactions. It’s so refreshing!
Seconding Gomez and Morticia Addams, but my very first relationship-crush (and sign of my bisexuality) was Dr.Ian Malcolm & Dr. Sarah Harding of Lost World: Jurassic Park. Not only were these two my roots, I also longed for someone to go on adventures with, someone to argue with, someone who would come to an island to save me from myself and end Up supporting me through the whole thing. Also Jeff Goldblum ?& Julianne Moore ?.
Short time after that: Arwen & Aragorn, Amélie & Nino.
My first queer relationshipgoals were and still are Rose&Rosie.
Alanna and George were my first!! I really disliked Liam as a kid, I can’t remember why
Liam was a jerk, that’s why. (God, he was such a jerk. Like, as a kid I was like “yeah this guy is a jerk? Okay like I get you Alanna he’s a hot jerk but he’s a jerk.” As an adult I’m just like WOW this dude is THE WORST. Which…man, that’s saying something after how much of a jerk Jon was too.)
I’m with you Renee – George was always my favourite of all Alanna’s men, and I’m glad she ended up with him. Liam was okay, but he was arrogant and condescending to Alanna a lot of the time, and his problems with her magic was absolutely a dealbreaker for them.
Yeah, George was a much better match for her long term!
I came to the comments to say that I couldn’t stand Liam so I’m glad someone beat me there haha! I read them when I was maybe 12 but really didn’t like him…how can he claim to love Alanna when he dislikes such a huge part of her (her magic?). I much prefer her with George.
Luke & Lorelai from Gilmore Girls will always be my first and favourite #OTP. Christopher fans, you can fight me.
Part of it is about how, when they broke up the first time, she called him sobbing because she needed her best friend and he was her best friend, and I want a relationship where I don’t just love the other person, I genuinely LIKE them. Part of it is also that one of the things Lorelai looked for most in a partner is someone who could “keep up”. She wanted a partner, an equal, someone on her level who wasn’t going to drag her down or ask her to be less of herself. And part of it was the other thing Lorelai was looking for – dependability. Regardless of where they were in their lives or relationship, Luke was always there for her, and more importantly, always there for her daughter. It was this combination of things that Lorelai only found in Luke, out of all the men she dated throughout the series, he was the only one who ticked every box. Luke Danes is my absolute favourite straight cis man on television, and as much as Lauren Graham is one of my longest and biggest celebrity crushes, Luke Danes is what I look for in a partner, but also what I strive to be like as a partner.
Hmmmmm….I don’t know if I have a lot of couples that I view as relationship goals though some of them were formative things?
Like Kel/Cleon wasn’t so much a relationship goal as reassurance that like yes, people could still think I was attractive and want to date me (and I had a lot of the same insecurities as Kel) but I wasn’t like “yep this is a relationship that I super want to model” it was…just a fairly low-key first relationship that wasn’t a forever relationship and that was FINE and good.
I was very Invested in Rose/9th Doctor/Jack as OT3 because of the energy and spark they had together. (And I think Jack/9 was the first non-straight kiss I saw on TV so that was certainly part of it being formative there). But almost MORE formative was Martha’s pining after 10th Doctor and then just…making that choice to leave because staying wasn’t healthy for her (and she had a family that was suuuuuper traumatized that needed some help with that) and just….that wasn’t a dynamic that is really written about or given space without becoming a drama-ridden trainwreck but it was just a very good thing for you me to see someone leave for themselves.
The only other thing that came close to being relationship goals (minus the Unfair Circumstances) was Daja/Rizu because okay yeah, at the time I was still very much thinking I was straight and thought that they were really great as a couple and the unfair circumstances were unfair but as now? Yeah, “adult woman who thought romance was kinda ehhhhh not all that great, until very beautiful woman romances her and then she realizes yeah no romance: pretty awesome, she was just romancing the Wrong People” is a very meaningful story.
Oh man, yes, Martha admitting her feelings and making the decision to leave was SO formative for me. I…didn’t realize you could do that? And at least to me she still seemed really strong and smart and great despite having an unrequited crush and thus having “failed” romantically, which is something you almost never see, especially for a woman. Usually liking someone who doesn’t like you back is either tragic/unfair (for a man) or tragic/incredibly embarrassing (for a woman).
I really love Martha and hate when people dismiss her as being boring or lame. She did so much and knew herself so well!
the hilarious part of this round table is i saw the headline and thought “huh i don’t rly know what i would say to that, i guess i probably didn’t participate in this one” and then BOOM, scrolled down and saw my name and my cop-out answer! but it’s true! I LOVE FRIENDSHIP NARRATIVES AND HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDSHIP #GOALS OKAY?! <3
Mine always was Jack/Sam from Stargate SG-1. Like. Look. That show has some major white saviorism issues and is super nerdy and dated, but I love it. I loved that Jack respected Samanatha Carter as an equal on every level, that he was constantly talking about how much smarter she was than him, how Sam challenged Jack when he was being stubborn, how they could never get together because of military regulations and also THE FATE OF THE WORLD.
I’m not entirely sure if I wanted to BE Samantha Carter or BE WITH Samantha Carter, but it was one or both of those things.
I’m a giant nerd, okay?
They were great ! Totally get it.
I was feeling quite dismayed when I first saw this post. No couples ever inspired me with relationship goals.
I mean, my early role models were all terrible womanizers : Davy Jones of the Monkees, Captain James T. Kirk, Napoleon Solo. Ugh, WTF is all I can say to that now.
But as I was falling asleep last night I suddenly realized that I do indeed have a relationship model, though it’s not coupledom :
More Than Human, by Theodore Sturgeon, is my relationship goal. Basically it’s the story of how a group of 5 or 6 people come together to form a close-knit bond that is actually a new life form. I read this when I was very young and it struck a very deep chord within me, to me this was ideal.
Sadly I’ve never been able to realize this.
But I think that’s what still drives me, the urge to have real intimacy and trust with a group of others. The human equivalent of a basketfull of puppies cuddling up to sleep. Bliss.
The Baby-Sitter’s Club! OMG Vanessa, feeling so validated rn!
God Kitty and Levin – my 15 year old self who read Anna Karenina to seem smart feels so seen right now…