If she’s this good at lying about something so inconsequential, couldn’t she be lying about other things…
Q:
My girlfriend of four months recently confessed to me that she’s been lying to me about her college experience. Basically, she’d told me she had a B.A. from a very good liberal arts school, but she just confessed to me that even though she did go to that college, she didn’t graduate, she actually dropped out during her second to last semester for mental health reasons. That’s fine, of course. What’s weird is that she’s been committed to this lie for the whole time I have known her. In ways she didn’t even need to! Like I told a funny story about my college graduation day, and she told a story about hers…..that never happened.
I’ve done a lot of reassuring her about this in the past few weeks since her confession, because she feels insecure about it, which is what made her lie in the first place. She thought I wouldn’t date her if I knew the truth (I graduated from an Ivy and she said that intimidated her), and has said other people have judged her when they found out she didn’t really have a BA. (Have they though????) She also lies about this on her resume, but I understand that, educational requirements for jobs are oppressive and I get that.
But if I’m being honest, I still feel weird about her lying to me! First of all, she told a few specific lies, like the one about graduation, how she didn’t want her parents to come but then changed her mind last minute, and the house she lived in and who she lived with in her final year of school.
I’m learning how good she is at lying, and I feel like it’s normal to assume she could be lying about other things, no? Am I being paranoid and unfair? But also, it frustrates me that she thinks this would have been a dealbreaker. I’ve never indicated I’d have any issue with her…level of education?! Or anyone’s. It’s just so not me and not reflective of my values. I’m unsure if I’ve said something that made her think otherwise or if she just made an assumption about me. Which would have maybe been fine at the beginning of our relationship, but over time? The reason she finally confessed is because we were hanging out with a friend from her hometown who referenced something about her coming back home to live with her parents that indeed pinged as a little weird but didn’t necessarily tip me off to the web of lies. But I guess she finally felt guilty and like I might find out from someone else. Am I wrong to feel like this breaking of trust might be bigger than I realize?
A:
Summer: Dishonesty is a complicated topic. It’s always difficult for outsiders to assess dishonesty because we don’t know the context of the rest of your relationship. We don’t know how you feel about her otherwise, or how she behaves in other areas. We don’t know how she feels about you and the reasons she does anything.
But we have to try. Otherwise, we’d never be able to go to anyone for advice.
When I assess dishonesty in someone else’s relationship, the two things I look at are magnitude and frequency. The greater the ‘size’ of the lie, the more of a problem there is. The more often someone lies, the more of a problem there is. We all tell small lies some of the time. I don’t want total honesty from anyone in my life. What I do want in a relationship is an environment of trust and honesty about the things that matter to us.
Based on these criteria, your situation can be disassembled and assessed.
Lying about university credentials is a fairly big one. It’s not buried-a-body big, but it’s not the same as oversleeping and blaming it on non-existent traffic. How much this specific lie matters to you will vary. Credentials and educational background might be hugely important to some people and a footnote to others. You’ll have to ask yourself how big of a deal this is to you. It would be a BIG deal to me because educational backgrounds are important to the people I date. And so is honesty. If my partners aren’t honest about something as basic as school, I’m not sure I could trust them in the long run. But you are free to feel differently.
Frequency is another issue here. This lie is a sizable lie scaffolded by smaller lies. In order to support the main story, she’s had to lie to you about smaller things. It’s… concerning when someone is willing to tell lots of smaller lies and is good at it. But it’s also a little more justifiable because those lies exist to support the big one. It’s not like she’s lying all the time about many things. Frequency is nonetheless present here.
That frequency also goes beyond your interactions. Lying on her résumé is very, very bad. It’s probably immoral (at least, I think it is). It’s also illegal in many places as a form of fraud (misrepresenting information for personal/financial gain). It could severely jeopardize her employment. If she gets caught, she may be quickly fired and blacklisted (in a tight industry). This could mean a sudden loss of financial security for both of you because she has a… whimsical relationship with the concept of ‘truth’. You may have to support a partner financially for reasons that may have been avoided. It could make finding future employment more difficult for her because she either gives up the lie and loses a point on her résumé, or loses references to her past employers. If it goes public, your role in upholding her lie and supporting her could call your standing into question among family and friends. Very bad all-round.
Coming back to frequency. She’s come clean to you about this. But you’re not a potential employer. Will she continue to uphold the lie to her employers after telling you the truth? If she does, she’s still lying. Big, and frequently. Just not to you. You have to ask yourself if you’re okay with having a partner who is committed to lying to maintain her employment. And you will have to condone or even uphold her lies in public, lest you jeopardize both of your financial security.
When I write the AF+ Advice section about relationships, I talk a lot about the importance of alliance or consensus. As in, the people in the relationship should act together against life’s challenges. Teamwork. That… also applies to doing bad things together. I’ve upheld lies for my partners and asked them to do the same for me. But it’s very different when you willingly do it as part of a team. Your relationship is a team and since she’s taking the lead on this, you have to decide if you’re willing to stand by her. If you ain’t willing, then that’ll be a point of friction, disagreement, and resentment.
To help your thought process, I’ll bullet point some of the stuff I see and you can process it as you wish.
- She told you the truth. If this was of her own volition rather than you finding out, then that’s a positive point. It shows morality, guilt, and caring about your respect.
- The relationship is relatively young at 4 months. The bad news is, this saga illustrates her willingness to just lie to your face about serious topics. But new relationships are also ‘lower stakes’ environments.
- Her comfort with lying and scaffolding lies with other lies rightfully worries you. Your need for an honest relationship deserves to be upheld and you must think deeply and probably speak to her about how this affects you.
- If she intends to continue lying on her résumé about this, then you’ll have to decide if you’re comfortable with it. Are you okay with the lie? The potential risks to your relationship and livelihoods? Comfortable with upholding her lie to others (dinner table convo, etc.)?
- Her discomfort about being rejected or feeling ashamed for not having these qualifications speaks to pretty damaged self-esteem. We all have feelings of inadequacy, but we don’t usually address them by doing something that could torch our entire livelihoods (worst-case scenario). You’ll have to consider what this fragile self-esteem and willingness to lie about it says about her. And whether you can handle it.
Your besties have brought their relationship fight to your doorstep (because it’s also their doorstep)…
Q:
I moved in recently with a couple, Skye and Tara, who I’ve been friends with for years. Unfortunately right before I moved in they got into a big fight. I noticed Tara was kind of distant, both from me and her partner, and Skye was clearly despondent. Because Tara wasn’t around very much, Skye was the one I asked about what was going on and she vented to me quite a bit about their fight. I tried to get a sense for how Tara was doing but whenever I tried asking her how she was doing or what was up I didn’t get very far because she had her walls up. I tried to encourage Skye to talk to Tara about what was going on because she seemed to be avoiding it. She assured me she would.
She didn’t. Things blew up last week, resulting in a screaming match between the two of them and Skye going to her mother’s house for the night. I tried to talk to Tara but she was mad at me for “talking behind her back” with Skye. She said she can’t bring herself to talk to either me or Skye about what’s happened because she’s too hurt and she feels ostracized in her own home and needs time. It’s been a week and everyone in the house has been talking to each other like things are fine but I feel all twisted up inside and on edge. I had told Tara to take the time she needed but at the same time I’m wondering exactly how long that’s going to be. It feels like we’re all pretending this never happened and it’s driving me up the wall.
A:
Summer: Oof. Reminds me of an old friend of mine who moved in with very close friends. She learned that people who are really fun to be around might not be as fun to live with.
So… it sounds to me like you’ve got front-row seats to how your besties resolve relationship issues. And since this is your house now, that’s become your problem.
When we console or advise our besties, we’re usually doing it in a context removed from the actual events. Over tea or at a weekly hangout. The context changes when you’re there to see it happen. That makes it a spectacle and everyone bears the social consequences. I think that explains Tara’s belief that you were ‘talking behind her back’. I don’t think that belief is uncomfortable given your role as a best friend to Skye who should be supporting Skye’s endeavors. But since you were present for the screaming match, you are unfortunately now caught up in the fighting.
This is difficult because it’s jeopardizing your role as a supportive friend to Tara + Skye. They’re in conflict so you can’t support one — even emotionally — without potentially alienating the other.
But I must add: you are a housemate and ‘relationship counselor’ is not part of the agreement
You’re feeling stressed and pent-up about the situation. As is your right, since there were recent hostilities in what is now your home. But neither the source nor outcome of those hostilities are your fault. So I think your main obligation should be protecting your well-being. You’re a compassionate friend who has shown much concern for both others in the house. What about yourself? This… breaks my heart to say because it’s what I would have told my childhood self. But… you deserve a stable, predictable home devoid of shouting matches and uncertainty.
As an adult, you have more tools to create that space for yourself. It could involve taking time away. Isolating yourself. Talking to the couple. Supporting their relationship. But I think you should look to yourself.
Because… and I hate to say this. But this might just be how Skye and Tara are at home. Their relationship may just entail arguments and displays that would be horrifying to you. But they’re accustomed to them or don’t consider these arguments severe and can still commit to loving each other. Maybe they resolve conflicts by simply not talking about it and allowing time to smooth things over. That… sounds nuts to me, but it truly works for many people.
And if that turns out to be the case, your efforts at support may be taken more as interference in their established and ‘comfortable’ status quo. Which isn’t good for anyone.
Which is why in lieu of my usual approach to giving lots of pragmatic advice for addressing interpersonal problems… I’m genuinely just gonna tell you to watch and wait. To see where things go. To see if they want your support or advice. To see how you can respond in a way that protects you. And when you’re called upon to respond, you’ll have more information to work on.
Recommendations for the emotional side of the conception journey!
Q:
Looking for resources! Anyone have suggestions for reading/listening materials for the emotional side of the fertility process? My wife and I are trying to conceive, and we’ve found ourselves a little unprepared for the emotional ups and downs of waiting and uncertainty. The books we’ve found so far have tended to focus on the logistical/biological side of conception, on miscarriage, or on pregnancy itself. Grateful for any leads!
A:
Riese: You know I definitely wish there were more resources of this nature! I don’t know if you’ve ever checked out Queerception on Reddit, but I found it really helpful (they have a lot of threads just focused on those dreaded two weeks, for example). A few months back Sai did a great piece on Pregnant Together (full disclosure: the post was sponsored, but it was an honest post!), a community for queer couples going through the TTC process that might be worth checking out. We also have some essays and stories right here that touch on some of these topics. (More if you go further back into the archives!)
Other things:
The Intersectional Fertility Podcast: centers queer, trans and non-binary folks trying to conceive through “information-laded episodes and compelling interviews with guests.”
This episode of We Can Do Hard Things
The Queer Family Podcast: Lots of different episodes here dig into the emotional elements of making babies, hosted by queer parents Jamie Kelton and E.Bradshaw and assorted guests.
The Trying Game: Get Through Fertility Treatment and Get Pregnant Without Losing Your Mind: this book is not queer-centric but it is focused on the emotional and practical aspects of the process.
The Art of Waiting: On Fertility, Medicine and Motherhood, by Belle Boggs – A reported book a combination of the author’s own experiences and the complex stories of other couples going through the process.
And here’s another set of fertility podcasts that might have some of what you’re looking for.
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I’m going to have to disagree with Summer’s vehement takedown of lying on your CV. Your girlfriend didn’t lie about going to medical school or something that could put people in danger. She went to college, she knows how to do the skills the college teach you, she just didn’t graduate. It’s really not a big fucking deal. The lying isn’t great, but honestly, we live in an elitist world where it’s ‘bad’ to struggle with your MH to the point where you can’t achieve academically. Your gf probs has alot of shame. The lie was (I’m guessing) born from that, and she just kept running with it. If this is the only thing she’s lied about, I really wouldn’t be too worried.
I agree that both the question asker and answerer seemed to catastrophize about this lie in ways that I don’t think are very productive! Maybe couple’s counseling would be useful if accessible.
I’m a manager of people and I have to say that if I found out one of my peeps had lied about something as consequential as a university level qualification, I would have serious concerns and naturally question all other elements of their CV and possibly performance. This is a big deal regardless of field because it’s far more deep-seated than the ability to do a job well and safely. Such serious lies breach trust and call into question their work performance because you must ask, what they lied about that too? Learning their GF has lied so skilfully and only confessed when her story was unwittingly threatened by a third party is genuine cause for concern. It doesn’t have to be a deal breaker and hopefully that’s where the lies end but the problem is the air of general uncertainty created.
Eh, I think it can be field dependent but I gotta lean towards agreeing with Summer. This would be “banned from hiring forever” type deal in my field, which could be a pretty big financial hit for a lot of people. While the dishonesty is bad, I think the lie also displays a startling lack of judgment that would personally prevent me from getting any further involved. Shame sucks and isn’t productive, as shown in this letter it can lead people to do pretty stupid things. If the gf is committed to working through her shame and moving forward it might work out, but doesn’t seem like a stellar start.
I think Cleo is right. The letter writer says she is ok with her girlfriend lying on her CV so it seems excessive to portray this as ‘she’ll lose her job, get blacklisted and then you’ll both be sent to the workhouse’.
It’s a 4 month relationship, they aren’t married with 12 kids. This is the point at which you lose some of the fakery because you’re invested and you’re not just trying to get a 2nd date because you’ll feel rejected otherwise. Have a conversation with her, tell her a truth you’ve been glossing over to seem smarter/cooler/better, that’s how you make intimacy. And if it doesn’t work out then at least the time you did spend together was actually you, not the fake, polished versions of yourselves.
I wrote in with the last question and wanted to say thank you for the thoughtful response and for putting those resources together—I appreciate it! <3
thank you! i hope you find something useful in there, information on this topic is always so annoyingly practical and/or heteronormative
I don’t think Summer’s response was harsh. A friend of my sister’s – whom she’s worked at two orgs with – dropped out of HS. Then a family member photoshoped her a fake diploma and has lied on every job application since, she’s close to 40. It bothers me whenever I think about the lengths she’s gone through to continue this lie and no one has ever checked. She’s proven to be a sneaky person in other ways since I’ve known her through my sister for over 10 years. You do have to wonder where the moral compass is because one big lie usually isn’t the only one.
Alternatively…this person has managed to have (seemingly) successful jobs for decades without graduating HS. Quite impressive. She did what she needed to do…
I agree with you, Cleo. Capitalism is a fucking hellhole and she did what she had to do to not live in poverty. She seems to do it well if she’s still employed? Kudos to her for surviving.
Re LW 1: So much of this story reminds me of when I told elaborate lies as a teenager to convince people that I was straight. I didn’t just conceal my crushes on girls. I discussed fake crushes on boys at length to feel included, had pictures of Brad Pitt in my locker (ugh), made up a story about kissing a boy on summer vacation. And while they never said anything, I do think my straight friends who were fooled by this must have found a bit of a mindfuck when I came out; I had smoothly lied to them for years, even if it was a reaction to structural homophobia/heterosexism. Maybe some of them told themselves that I went overboard because they personally wouldn’t have judged me, and because homophobia/heterosexism is less visible to them. (Note that being good at lying about one’s sexuality does not necessarily mean that a person is predisposed to lying about everything in their life, and the girlfriend could be in that boat.)
Mental health is still heavily stigmatized despite increasing awareness, and it’s easy to miss social hierarchies surrounding post-secondary education if you’re not personally impacted. The LW is an Ivy league graduate and questions whether their girlfriend really has been judged for not having a B.A. Yeah, I think some people probably have, or she has overheard people who didn’t know her background disparaging college dropouts or people without degrees. Don’t assume she is not reacting to real stigma. You have not walked in her shoes. That said, it’s valid for this to be a red flag for you and you don’t need to keep dating her even if her behaviour isn’t pathological.
Could the girlfriend somehow finish her college credits? It’s clear that she is not at peace with what happened. Finding a way to get her degree could give her some closure and save her from continuing lie in various areas of her life. Ideally, even if this is not possible, she would be able to accept that she is not a lesser person because of what happened to her (easier said than done but it’s the only solution.) If this relationship doesn’t work out, she will hopefully learn that even if she isn’t ready to talk about her painful college experience with people, she would be better off dancing around that conversation instead of making up stories out of whole cloth, even this is only a stopgap measure. She is living in a kind of closet and needs to make her way out of it.