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To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast Bonus Episode: Goodbye, Again

By now you’ve surely heard that The L Word: Generation Q is no more, and boy are we sad about it! After months of bated breath, we received word last month that the show will not return for another season, and to top it off, is no longer available on Showtime anymore. On the…brighter? side? Maybe? We have also received word that original series showrunner, Ilene Chaiken, is already back to the grindstone: hard at work on a(nother) reboot set in New York.

Come join us to commiserate the end of our problematic fave, to talk about the state of queer television at large, and what We, the hosts of To L and Back, would have happen to all of the characters after the end of this season!

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SHOW NOTES

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is To L and Back.

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q edition.

Analyssa: Generation Q edition.

Riese: Back to New York.

Drew: Back to New York?

Analyssa: Well, not yet.

Riese: Not yet. Sorry, that was a reference to season 10 of The Real World where they went back to New York and they called it The Real World: Back to New York.

Riese: Because the first episode of The Real World… The first season of The Real World was in New York.

Analyssa: What year, approximately, do you think season 10 of The Real World aired?

Riese: 2002 or 2003.

Drew: I was in elementary school.

Riese: Because I think 9/11 happened during the Chicago season. The first season-

Analyssa: Did they have to address that in the universe of The Real World? I know it’s about the real world, famously, but did they discuss 9/11? Was it happening while they were filming?

Riese: Yeah, they watched it happen.

Analyssa: What?

Drew: Wow. I don’t think I have an understanding— The Real World was never something I watched. I think by the time I came to The Real World universe, it was Real World vs. Road Rules. It was years later.

Riese: Well, it stopped being good around, I would say, the Las Vegas season. It started taking a turn where it became like a lot of reality shows are now, which is just about young hot people drinking a lot and having drama, you know?

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: But in the beginning, it was very much a genuine social experiment of mixing people from all these different backgrounds, especially at a time when the internet wasn’t a thing, so people really didn’t know about anything besides their own little world, and putting them all in a house together and seeing what would happen. A lot of interesting things came out of that, but then the vibe shifted as MTV shifted more towards those types of party shows and The OC, or whatever that was called, Laguna Beach or something.

Analyssa: Laguna Beach.

Riese: And Super Sweet 16 and Teen Mom and all that kind of stuff. The vibe of MTV was shifting away from progressive, social, alternative, indie rock, whatever, towards more trashy reality TV, I guess, which has a place in the universe.

Analyssa: Which was my favorite era of MTV. That was the era I grew up in. Also I watched Reality Bites last year in my rom-com project, and Reality Bites is about that shift.

Riese: Great film.

Drew: I liked Jackass.

Analyssa: I forgot you were a Jackass kid.

Drew: I really was.

Analyssa: That was not my vibe.

Riese: One thing no one ever talks about is I Want a Famous Face. Does anyone remember the show?

Analyssa: I do remember that show.

Drew: Is that the show where people got plastic surgery to look like famous people? I vaguely recall that.

Riese: People didn’t talk about it enough at the time, and they’re not talking about it enough today.

Analyssa: That’s how I feel about the reality show The Swan which was fucked up.

Drew: Oh The Swan.

Riese: That was wild. Every now and then I get into another Swan rabbit hole and just get lost in what a time that was.

Drew: I’m scared, because I do think that cyclically in media — and maybe this can get us to The L Word — I do feel like we’re back in a place where queerness is going down, fatphobia is going up, where I am feeling because of my young age of 29 that I’m experiencing a backslide culturally in a way that I maybe never have. Obviously Donald Trump was elected president in my lifetime, but that galvanized people in a way where, yes, he was president, but the culture around me… my mom was all of a sudden liberal, you know?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: It felt like people were getting more liberal around me, not less.

Riese: Well, and also in art, when Donald Trump was elected, the amount of shows that had queer characters skyrocketed, the racial diversity of shows, because suddenly it was like, “We’re in this hellscape. We have to…” Suddenly people were finally on board with doing all these things that we were asking for forever, because they were no longer in this like, “Why do we need more diverse TV shows? Obama is president,” you know?

Drew: Right. Weird. I don’t know. I know that progress isn’t linear, but it’s still jarring. Certain things have been jarring in recent months. Look, not to keep dragging my family into this, but I’m aware that fatphobia was alive and well before six months ago, but I at least thought in certain circles… I don’t know. Just, it’s wild to me how, I don’t know, the way people are talking about gender and sexuality, the way people are talking about race, the way people are talking about bodies, it feels like we’re in a bad moment.

Analyssa: I feel like this has been a topic of conversation about Gen Z too, and their reaction to sex scenes and sex in culture. I don’t know, I haven’t really noticed this personally, so I can’t really say whether it’s accurate or not, but I do feel like people are talking about that a lot, that there’s a move towards more…

Drew: Puritan.

Analyssa: Puritanical, for lack of a better word, views on sex.

Riese: I think that was easy to call, the forces leading to that.

Drew: Should we share that this is a podcast where we talk about The L Word: Generation Q, a show that no longer exists?

Riese: It was, yeah. This is a podcast where we talk about The L Word: Generation Q on Showtime, a program that brought our community together.

Drew: And tore us apart.

Riese: Brought us to new heights of life, and now I guess is over. It has been canceled.

Drew: Which we knew.

Analyssa: I know.

Riese: Well, I really think I was in denial.

Drew: There’s something that’s also important to obviously talk about, which anyone listening to this podcast I’m sure knows, which is that the cancellation announcement was paired with an announcement that Ilene Chaiken is already working on The L Word: New York, which my question is—

Riese: Why?

Drew: Why would be one question. That not so much. The question I have more is, will we ever actually see The L Word: New York? Shows get announced all the time. The Farm never happened. Is it something that’s being announced in order for Showtime to not have gay people angry at them, or do we think that it’s actually a thing that’s going to someday be real? I have my doubts.

Riese: I have no fucking idea, because “in development” means nothing. It feels like the way that was released was as a rumor. The reporter who reported it was like, “I hear,” which I assume meant that she heard from Ilene Chaiken or from somebody else in that universe or whatever. It seemed a little bit odd for that to be happening after there was this big fan push towards, “Reboot the OG series again, put Ilene Chaiken in charge,” as if everyone forgot that she did so many things right, but she did so many things wrong. Suddenly everybody’s idealizing Ilene Chaiken.

Drew: As people do to the past.

Riese: As people do to the past, and wanting her to bring back the show or have a new showrunner. So, it seems interesting that they would say that. I just wonder what is going on behind the scenes, what the rumblings are, and does this mean the original cast would be a part of it? Are Bette and Tina going to be there? Or are they going to be in Toronto doing Murdoch Mysteries? Who would be in New York? Also how would that work out for us in terms of whether or not we would get invited to any parties?

Analyssa: Which is number one on the agenda.

Drew: I don’t know. It’s also a question of, do we want that?

Analyssa: To be invited to the parties?

Drew: No, obviously we want to be invited to the parties, but do we want The L Word franchise to live on, especially back in the hands of… If it was announced that it was like, I don’t know, who’s someone who’s cool that we like and is a good writer? And it was like, “This person is going to be doing a new L Word.” I’d be like, “Incredible, amazing. I love it.”

Analyssa: Riese Bernard.

Riese: Tanya Saracho.

Analyssa: Better answer, I guess. Sure.

Drew: Yeah. If that was announced, it’d be crazy. But I don’t necessarily know if I need more Ilene Chaiken L Word. I don’t really know what that’s going to offer. I don’t know. But it is also one of these things where I think a lot of the problems of Gen Q were baked into the premise in the sense of having now watched the Queer As Folk reboot, which I liked more than some, but it wasn’t perfect by any means, I think the idea of a queer ensemble show that is trying to be everything is going to fail always, both artistically and creatively. I think A League of Their Own comes closest, and it’s because it really grounds it in a certain history and is not trying to be everything per se, even though I think it does a really good job at representing a lot of different identities, but still, it at least has baseball to be based around. I don’t know.

Riese: But they also don’t have to… They have certain rules about how society was structured at that time in history that gives them a box from within to tell their story, where I think there’s less room to totally fuck up what you’re doing. You know what I mean? You can’t put Micah and Maribel’s story into A League of Their Own. It would never happen so therefore it would never be fucked up. Do you know what I mean?

Drew: Sure. But I do still think that the League of Their Own reboot spends half of its runtime on Black characters, which in rebooting the original League of Their Own, that wouldn’t be the choice that I think a lot of writers would have taken.

Riese: No.

Drew: Also so many people are gay or queer, and also they include trans characters. I do think they do a pretty impressive job, but that show is also getting canceled.

Riese: That’s the thing. Because people were like, “Why do we need this? Why can’t we just have a really well-written show about queer people?” And I’m like, “There is one. It’s called A League of Their Own. It came out last year, and it just got canceled.” We got that. That imaginary show we were all dreaming of that had an ensemble that was all the main characters were queer and it was just their stories, and it wasn’t just about white people and it wasn’t just cis… We got it.

Drew: It’s a bummer. I do think that if we were to get The L Word: New York, I would want it to be like — it’s so funny, because this show got such backlash, and I understand why — but Looking, where that show wasn’t very representative of all gay people in San Francisco. It was very white, it was very, very cis, but it’s really good, and it feels like it’s people who all are in the same world together. There are times where its somewhat sheltered characters are pulled out of their world in ways that I think are well-done. Speaking of Tanya Saracho, she was a writer on it. And Vida is another one where that’s a specific queer space.

Riese: A community.

Drew: Gen Q not having trans women characters was brutal because they tried to have it seemed like every other character… and they did a bad job with all of them that weren’t whatever. But in general, I don’t want Ilene Chaiken writing a trans woman. That’s a nightmare. I don’t want that. I want her to make—

Riese: Write the Bette and Tina show, and it’s middle-aged… or lesbians in their fifties and sixties and stuff, their lives or whatever; whatever it is that she can speak to I think, whatever that looks like. The social group represented in Gen Q was realistic except for that there were no trans women in it. There wasn’t anyone in that social group who wouldn’t be ordinarily, no one felt stuffed in, you know what I mean? But I don’t know.

Drew: Identity-wise, no, but writing-wise, yes. Writing-wise, they never really knew what to do with Micah. That’s more I guess what I’m getting at, is theoretically you can have a lot of… There are plenty of friend groups that are very diverse in the truest meaning of that word, but a lot of times writers can’t really make that work, because that’s not their experience.

Analyssa: I do think it’s worth noting — well, there’s two things I want to talk about — but the first thing is Ilene Chaiken developing this, like Riese said, “in development” doesn’t really mean anything. It means someone has some idea that they’re thinking about at home sometimes. But it also doesn’t mean she’s writing. Ilene Chaiken developed The L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And then she brought Marja in as a showrunner, and then they assembled a writers room.

Riese: So, it could still be me?

Analyssa: It could still be Riese. All three of us could find our way into The L Word: New York.

Drew: Oh my god, my phone’s ringing right now. Ilene!

Analyssa: I was thinking about this on the drive home from work, because I actually have a lot of thoughts about the business side of this, because that’s what I do for my day job, but I think it’s probably pretty boring to people listening. But Ilene Chaiken is going to be involved as an executive producer in developing any L Word reboot for the rest of time. Anytime The L Word comes up, Ilene is going to be at least involved in the conversation, and for all the reasons that Drew said and Riese has said, good and bad, you know what I mean? It means something to people, but also it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best product, but it just comes with the property now, which is just something for people to know when we’re talking about something like this. It’s always going to be Ilene Chaiken’s L Word, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s Ilene Chaiken’s L Word, if that makes sense.

Riese: That’s true.

Analyssa: The other thing was that I feel like we all read the announcement of her developing this show differently. I was like, “I think it’s The L Word with all new characters in New York City.” Is it a period piece? I have no idea. But it’s just a group of lesbians in New York City, and I think Riese had a different take.

Riese: I thought it was going to be the original cast members, shedding Gen Q, and either they were going to go back in time to have it take place in 2010, 2011 when Bette and Tina allegedly just moved to New York. Because also at some point Shane moved to New York, because Shane had the salons. Shane moves back to LA in the beginning of Gen Q. So either it’s going to be a prequel or whatever, which would be great, because then Shane would have the eyeliner again and we’d all get to relive that, and that was a meaningful thing for me personally. It’s either that or I think it’s going to be the original cast, but I don’t know how they would all get to New York. But also it’s about LA! That’s the whole point of The L Word. I love New York. New York City is my favorite city, but I think The L Word is an LA show. It’s about lesbian life in LA.

Drew: Well, that’s why it has to say “New York” in the title. Again, that’s why it’s called The L Word: New York. My thought process, when I first heard it, I thought entirely new characters, just lesbians in New York present-day. Then I was like, “Or-”

Riese: Why?

Drew: “What if it’s a 90s…” Well, because I thought of it as a Queer As Folk-type thing.

Riese: Then why use the name?

Drew: Because it’s easier to get a show made.

Analyssa: Well, and because it means something. The Real L Word, why call it that if it’s… You know what I mean? Why? It’s not a scripted show, but it had the same idea at its center, you know?

Drew: Yeah. I think that potentially it takes place in the ’90s. New actors are cast to play our core characters.

Analyssa: Oh my God.

Drew: It is a prequel, but we get Shane; someone’s cast to play ’90s Shane.

Riese: Could Kristen Stewart play ’90s Shane?

Drew: Can you imagine?

Riese: She’s never done TV besides being on Irma Vep for one second. But if Kristen Stewart was cast as baby Shane, that would be a hit right there. That’s a hit. That’s a hit.

Drew: She’s too old, though, for ’90s Shane. They need to cast someone who’s 20.

Analyssa: But ’90s Shane had lived a lot of life by then, you know?

Drew: That’s true, that’s true.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I really did think before this show started Kristen Stewart was on the get list for The L Word. It was announced—

Riese: She’s never going to do TV.

Analyssa: No, certainly not. But it was announced in 2017, 2018 that they were developing it. It was peak Kristen Stewart coming out, talking about being queer, publicly appearing with people she was dating. And I was like, “This is going to happen.” That feels so, so long ago now.

Riese: What they really should do is they should cast Jacqueline Toboni to play ’90s Shane.

Drew: Wow. That would be a choice.

Riese: I would love that. I would have such a good time.

Analyssa: It’d be so fun if they could bring back the young members of Gen Q as prequel members of the original L Word cast, except that none of them were ethnically diverse enough. You could retcon a bunch of people.

Riese: What if it was just a shot-by-shot remake of The Carrie Diaries, but everyone’s gay?

Drew: I haven’t seen it, but I was thinking The Carrie Diaries. It was The Bette Diaries. Was Bette ever in New York?

Analyssa: Mm-hmm.

Riese: Well, she went to Yale, and that’s a train ride away.

Drew: So what happened? Do we know the history of that?

Riese: No, she was in New York. She was in New York.

Analyssa: When Alice and Bette were at the opera, isn’t that in New York?

Riese: No. I think she was in New York at some point. I’m pretty positive.

Analyssa: Maybe I just think of the opera as a New York activity, so I’m like, “They must have been on the East Coast then.”

Drew: Also when has The L Word ever cared about continuity or things being correct? They could easily be like, “It’s about Bette and Alice dating in New York.”

Riese: That would be your dream show.

Drew: It would be. Bette is played by… God, can you imagine how The L Word fandom would react if someone else played Bette or any of these characters?

Riese: But imagine a young queer actress playing Bette.

Drew: That’d be so cool.

Analyssa: Jasmin Savoy Brown.

Riese: That’s who I was about to say, Jasmin Savoy Brown.

Analyssa: Obviously top of mind because of Yellowjackets‘ premiere recently.

Riese: There you go. Cast, perfect. Jacqueline Toboni…

Analyssa: We did it.

Riese: I don’t know how I feel about the spinoff. Obviously it’s, again, hard for me to separate my own business interests from the interests of myself as a person, but I really enjoyed everything happening around The L Word: Generation Q so much, you know what I mean? I liked that I got to write recaps and people got to give me compliments about how good I am at recapping. I love doing the podcast with you guys. That crazy week in LA when it premiered in 2019 was a week to remember, and partially forget, but also remember. It was just very exciting. I guess the reboot came up during a time in my life when I was not doing very well, and it was a lot of excitement and fun and flurry and getting back into recaps, and I love that.

I think what I really wanted was for it to keep going, but with a new showrunner. That’s what I want more than an L Word: New York. I wanted this to keep going, but to be done; for them to, not get back to the drawing board, but kind of, you know what I mean? They can’t retcon anything, but try to fix a little bit and move forward. The showrunners switch out during series after a few seasons all the time, don’t they?

Drew: I guess because Marja had an overall, I was feeling less optimistic about that, which I think we maybe talked about. But it seems like Showtime wouldn’t necessarily invest… I don’t know. Whatever cost that would have entailed, I don’t think they cared enough. But I also think that, what shows are left? Yellowjackets and The Last of Us, which is another interesting… I know it’s only two shows and two shows don’t make a pattern, but it is interesting that the highest-profile queer shows that aren’t getting canceled are-

Riese: Genre shows?

Drew: Yeah, are violent and about… Yes, genre, but it’s not even genre like CW superheroes genre. Genre in the sense of really brutal, violent, scary, somewhat despairing television, which feels interesting. I think one of those shows is a lot better than the other one, but I don’t know. Obviously, Hacks is still on and I’ve since caught up on Hacks and think it’s great, but one of two protagonists…

Riese: And Sort Of.

Drew: Sort Of is so good. I guess because Sort Of is Canadian, I don’t think of it as indicative, but I guess HBO probably gives some money to it.

Riese: It feels just really scary that shows that are centered, the queer person is the star or it’s a queer ensemble, cannot seem to not get canceled. And there’s always everyone’s like, “We need to make our own stuff,” and it’s like, “No, you don’t.” I don’t want another 2,500 lesbian web series out there; that’s not what we need. Unfortunately, people who have the money do have to invest some of it if we’re going to scare ourselves on TV, you know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But it bums me out, even though it was bad.

Analyssa: Well, and I would love for, like you said, queer-centered shows or shows with a bunch of queer characters to have the opportunity to be a little bit bad and still get a chance to find their footing, figure out what the problems are, get more on level ground, because I think there are so many shows that have really uneven seasons or a lot of drama behind the scenes or whatever; like you said, showrunner switches, and they still get to run for a number of seasons.
I don’t understand… I do, but I wish it weren’t the case that it’s the ones who aren’t allowed to really flounder a little bit are queer shows. And that’s not me being, “This was the best show ever, and it should have run forever the way it was running before,” because we obviously had our thoughts about it. But it’s not a show that doesn’t have an audience. And A League of Their Own is the same way. It’s not like people don’t love that show.

Riese: Yeah, people love it.

Analyssa: I don’t know. There’s always a reason, and that reason never seems to apply to other shows, even if they have the same kind of problems.

Drew: I do think that, again, it’s all cyclical, and TV in general right now is at a really bad place, writers’ strike coming up. And I do think it’s not that we shouldn’t be fighting for more and better. I think I probably place a little bit more emphasis on the “better” portion of that in the sense that I will miss the camaraderie and the community built around The L Word: Generation Q, but I do think we can ask for more and ask for better. I just think it’s a matter of time in the sense of there will be queer shows, the patterns will fluctuate; one streaming site will crumble, and a new wave of shows, whether it’s we go back to an old way of television being made or we go to a new way of television being made, there’s going to be another boom and then another bust, and it’s just always what happens. That has happened since the beginning of movies being made professionally and as an industry.

So, I don’t usually feel very doomsday about media in general, about queer media specifically. It sucks to be in this point of time where we’re losing these shows, and especially when you have attachments to certain characters; it sucks. But I do think things will get better again, and maybe even better than they ever have been. I do believe that. In looking at the GLAAD numbers that come out of, “These are the number of queer characters,” I would love if in the next wave of things getting better if we focus less… I think those numbers are like the Bechdel test in the sense of it can be helpful as a tool and as a test, but that’s not—

Riese: The end-all, be-all. You need a qualitative analysis as well as a quantitative analysis, and I think some of that has to be about community. We want shows that are about queer communities. That’s what Gen Q was, that’s what A League of Their Own was, that’s what Generation was: communities of humans who are all queer, because that’s really realistic. Instead of us just being part of a straight person’s story or one queer friend in the social group, which I know is common as well, but also queer community is really common, and we don’t see shows like that.

Drew: I definitely agree with that as one of the measurements, so I definitely will be sadder about the cancellation of something that centers queer people than the cancellation of something where there’s a subplot, or not even a subplot, but even one of the main characters. I’m not going to care as much. I’ll care if the show is really good, but I’ll be forgiving towards a Gen Q or a Queer As Folk reboot. I think what’s frustrating to me is that I would rather live in a world where we don’t have to be forgiving. That’s why A League of Their Own felt so special, and I’m really sad. It’s not official yet, so hopefully it doesn’t get canceled, or at least they get more than four episodes for this second and last season, because that felt like a real mix of a populist art that a lot of people could watch and have fun with and obsess over, but that’s also really good, and to me was like, “This is what we could be asking for.” So, that’s a bummer that that also got canceled potentially.

But I don’t know. I guess I’m just looking at the landscape, and in 2012, the idea that the company that sent us DVDs in the mail would make a big queer women ensemble with a trans woman involved about women’s prisons, that would have been wild. That’s 10 years ago, so who knows what the next 10 years are going to bring? I think right now feels really bad and sucks. I literally work in the industry; if people who have been showrunners and are queer, or specifically trans, aren’t getting jobs, I’m fucked. But I think I’m able to just be like, “Well, for now, I’m fucked for a few years at least, but then media always changes,” and I weirdly feel more optimistic when things are bad because I know that they’ll get better than when things are “good,” and we’re being told that everything is great because—

Analyssa: That we don’t need diversity on screen because someone is president.

Drew: Yeah, where it’s like, “We have Gen Q, so what more could you want?” Or, “Euphoria is…” I guess Euphoria is still on, still kicking, and it’s like, “What do you mean? You have this.” That drives me crazy, whereas there being nothing, even First Kill can’t get renewed, Warrior Nun is getting canceled. It doesn’t matter what type of show it is. I think that to me, I’m able to be like, “But there will be more shows that get made, and in the meantime watch Sort Of and actually talk about it, and if you’re not as excited about Sort Of, maybe examine some of your biases,” while at the same time understanding that it is a much lower-budget show that’s made in Canada. I’m in Canada currently myself, so that’s not a knock on Canada; it’s just the industry here is different, and it’s not the same kind of show. I get that. But also enjoy, and also there’s a hundred years of media that you can potentially catch up on if you would like, and there’s a lot of good stuff out there.

And there’s a lot of good stuff that’s made every year. I know it’s not the same to have a Gen Q that we have watch parties and everyone is talking about the same characters and all that, but there will continue to be great independent queer movies made every year. Television is tough because there’s a lot of moving parts to get TV made, but there will be movies that are made that you can watch, and more now than ever, or if not… I don’t know. I guess I just wish people would focus on that sometimes.

Not that we shouldn’t be having conversations about how Hollywood is treating queer people so terribly right now and how it’s connected to the political backlash. It’s not just like, “We’re not getting Gen Q anymore,” it’s also the attitudes around queer people legislatively is also bad. So, it’s not that we shouldn’t talk about it, I just do encourage queer people, if you feel hopeless, to remember that the queer artists who have worked on these shows, and who haven’t worked on these shows but should have worked on these shows, are going to keep making stuff, because people make stuff and people are going to want to create, and they deserve bigger budgets and more opportunities and money from Showtime. But if they’re not getting it, you can still find their creations somewhere.

Riese: But I want to be able to recap a show.

Drew: No, it’s sad. I think I sometimes do what my mom does when other people are negative, she reacts in the opposite.

Riese: I do that too.

Drew: She’s a leveling system, which sometimes is really nice and sometimes is a little maddening. So, I apologize if this is maddening to any listeners who are like, “Yes, but Shane.” I get it. But did Gen Q even have Shane the character? Let’s be honest with ourselves.

Riese: No. She was inconsistent.

Drew: Does Kate Moennig even think that Gen Q had the character of Shane on it? Because I’m getting no vibes from her Instagram.

Analyssa: Demonstrably not.

Riese: There’s going to be a reckoning also, because I think that the networks that are building these libraries of content, those libraries are a lot less attractive when they’re only one season long. This cancellation spree, at some point they’re going to have to sit down and be like, “Wait a second. What are we doing here? We’re not building…” You can join Netflix and you can watch, I don’t know, 200 episodes of Orange Is New Black or something, or a hundred. But are you going to get invested in First Kill, which has eight episodes, I think, or any of a myriad… On Hulu are you going to watch The Bisexual — you should — that has four episodes, five episodes?

Drew: Six.

Riese: Six. I think that they need multiple seasons of shows to have them. Otherwise I feel like they’re throwing away what they spent on the first one.

Analyssa: Especially because so much of, especially Netflix, anecdotally people’s watching is The Office and Friends and New Girl, things that have run forever.

Riese: These shows that went on forever, because people want things… And they don’t also want shows that ended knowingly. No one wants to be left on a cliffhanger; people want a fucking finale. You want a finale. None of these shows get finales.

Drew: If you’re going to kill Tess, show me Tess’s cold, dead body.

Riese: Show us Tess hanging off a highway overpass with blood coming out of her eyeballs, or give me death. Speaking of Tess’s fate, should we discuss what we think should really happen to all of these characters in the finale?

Analyssa: What we’re living in our heads for the rest of time with?

Riese: Well, I’d love to start out on a positive note and remember that we never got to see Angie and Bella have their love confession.

Analyssa: I forgot about them.

Riese: That is I think the next scene that I would want from Angie, would be her going to Bella’s and apologizing, and Bella being like, “But,” you know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: You know what I’m talking about, those scenes?

Drew: Yes. That would be really nice. I love that for those two.

Riese: And then Hendrix never publishes another word for the rest of his life and he has to work at Cold Stone Creamery.

Drew: I don’t think Cold Stone deserves him.

Riese: Actually, you’re probably right.

Drew: I hope Micah and Maribel patch things up. Maybe he’s sitting in the car, and then he takes a deep breath and he’s like, “This is absurd,” and then he goes back inside the house.

Riese: He’s like, “I only packed three T-shirts. And not even deodorant.”

Drew:
And he’s like, “Let’s talk this out.” He’s like, “Maybe we rushed into the whole baby thing. Maybe what we should actually do is just-”

Riese: See a therapist.

Drew: Yeah! “Let’s work it out, and if you do still want a baby, that can be something we can talk about.”

Analyssa: Maybe we see a doctor who can assuage a lot of these concerns first.

Riese: And talk to them about all of our fears and concerns and all of the complications, and decide what the best path forward is.

Drew: That sounds lovely.

Analyssa: I know we didn’t leave her on a sad note, so we don’t really need to give her a future, but I just feel like Sophie was on the brink of being like, “I’m actually ready to take a creative turn. I think I want to go do stuff that excites me.” Maybe that’s documentary making, as we’ve learned. I don’t know, Pippa…

Riese: Is she going to be broke?

Analyssa: Well, I think Pippa is a very wealthy artist.

Drew: I’m just saying that yes, all the queer shows are canceled, but you should seek out Sophie’s new queer documentary. You just have to get a subscription to Mubi and you can watch it.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Drew: It’s just $5.99 a month or something like that. You can watch Sophie Suarez’s new documentary. It’s eight hours long, and it’s fantastic.

Riese: Introductory subscription, 25% off. Anyone can watch it. I think that would be nice for Sophie. What I would actually predict for Sophie is that she enters into this thing with Pippa, but Pippa is very non-committal because she’s not going to commit to somebody who’s 20 years younger than her. And Sophie is kind of enamored, but Pippa doesn’t really give her the attention she desires. She thinks about doing the documentary, but freaks out and decides to stay on The Alice Show, which is also good, so that they’re all in the same set interacting, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Then of course Finley is back working at The Alice Show, and once again, Sophie finds herself back in the arms of her one true love now that they’ve both explored themselves and their experiences and Finley has dealt with whatever has happened with Tess, that then they come together in health and joy and then they have a baby.

Drew: Wow. That’s lovely.

Riese: And then they throw sperm vials at each other that cost $925.

Drew: I think that Tess wakes up from her coma, because she doesn’t die.

Riese: And it’s like, “Why am I friends with these assholes?”

Drew: I think she confronts the fact that living a stealth life has weighed on her, and made sobriety more difficult and other things more challenging. So, she decides to be more open about being a trans woman, and then she just forms this really great community of trans people and gets a trans girlfriend and just is thriving. That’s how I see her end.

Riese: I would love to see her working at a juice bar instead of an alcohol bar. Or remember those oxygen bars?

Drew: No.

Riese: No?

Drew: But I believe you.

Analyssa: You don’t remember those?

Drew: No. What’s that?

Riese: I guess you would go and get oxygen?

Analyssa: You would go and they would have little… It depends, but they would put them up your nose, like oxygen from a hospital or a little tube that you could suck in.

Drew: Was it flavored?

Analyssa: Sometimes.

Riese: Sometimes. I think so.

Analyssa: It was one of those…

Drew: Wellness?

Analyssa: Yeah. It was a booster shot like Kreation Juice. Or like how rich people get IVs brought to their homes so that they can have all their vitamins or whatever.

Drew: What if Tess realizes that what she really loves is bringing community together, so she opens up a queer, non-alcohol-centric space?

Analyssa: There are so many people online who would love that.

Drew: Like a bookstore or a coffee shop?

Riese: Yeah, a bowling alley.

Drew: Bowling alley.

Riese: Although my girlfriend doesn’t like bowling, so maybe a bookshop and coffee shop would be better for me personally. A roller rink.

Drew: Tess buys Stories in Echo Park.

Riese: Tess starts a swan boat company in Echo Park to compete with the present swan boat company, and then we get into swan boat company wars. No one has done that. That’s completely an unexplored topic on all of television.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: No one has got into that at all.

Drew: Do we think Gigi works it out with Nat? Do we think Gigi and Nat go the distance?

Riese: Well, isn’t Nat still poly?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I think that now that they’re dating, and Nat of course is like, “Well, I’m poly. We should date other people.” And then Gigi is like, “I don’t really want to,” but then she goes on a date with Dani, and then yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they realize, “Let’s give a throuple a try again.”

Drew: Wow, with Dani. See, I would love if The L Word: New York was Gigi and Nat moved to New York and they live their poly lives, and it’s just a really positive representation of a queer poly relationship, but it’s still in a messy way.

Analyssa: But not in a boring way.

Drew: The two of them aren’t fighting or cheating on each other, but they’re fighting and cheating on their various other romantic partners, but then they always come back to each other to process. That could be really fun.

Riese: Maybe they could live near Bette and Tina, so they see them in the grocery store, and Bette and Tina are like, “Ugh,” because those are our poly friends.

Drew: That would be a very funny cameo.

Riese: They all have children, so they’d all be in Park Slope with their little strollers. Well, I guess their children aren’t in strollers anymore, but you can put a kid in a stroller if you want to. It’s legal. I went to Disneyland recently and I saw a lot of them, so I think that sounds good for them.

Drew: I do think Gigi is too interesting to be with Nat, but sometimes I forget what The L Word always reminds me that sometimes really interesting people like to have boring partners because that’s the dynamic they like, whereas I do not understand that at all.

Riese: Well, we didn’t really get to know Nat that well.

Drew: That’s fair.

Riese: And I’m going to go on a limb here and say I don’t know how well-written any of these characters were in the end of the day.

Drew: Whoa.

Analyssa: That’s bold.

Drew: Hot take.

Analyssa: Brave. I liked Nat. I always thought she was funny.

Drew: You did like Nat.

Riese: You were a big Nat fan.

Analyssa: Well, I’m a big Stephanie Allynne fan, which is definitely inherited from an ex of mine, but I just think she’s so funny and charming.

Riese: She is really funny.

Drew: Speaking of shows that got canceled, if you haven’t watched One Mississippi, that’s still an Amazon. You can watch it.

Riese: That’s such a good show.

Drew: That’s one of the best shows to ever be made. It’s so good.

Riese: It’s brilliant. It’s so good. Two seasons. I don’t usually write entire posts about a show getting canceled, but I sure did for One Mississippi.

Drew: I remember that.

Riese: I said, “They canceled One Mississippi. I’m going to set my television on fire.” I think they canceled I Love Dick the same day or something.

Analyssa: Yeah, I think it was a big—

Riese: I was like, “Excuse me.”

Drew: Which again there’s always these moments where it feels like all hope is lost. And in fact—

Analyssa: And then sometimes you get an L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: I think what’s crazy is that right after Bette and Tina’s wedding, Tina died. That’s just so sad and brutal for that couple, that they finally get married and seem to be doing okay, and then Tina gets hit—

Riese: Maybe Tess and Denver railed into the little golf cart that Bette and Tina were driving off in.

Drew: And Tina died.

Analyssa: I can’t believe we’re just never going to know what happened to Tess. So mad.

Drew: It’s so brutal.

Riese: I know, that’s so annoying.

Analyssa: Why end it on that note when you know that you might not come back?

Drew: It is one of the most unforgivable sins.

Analyssa: When the odds are stacked against you, why would you make the cliffhanger she might die in a car accident because she’s not sober and neither is the person driving? Why couldn’t it be the cliffhanger is like, “Will Dani choose Roxy or Dre?”

Riese: You still have the trans person unhappy at the end of the episode, even in that one.

Analyssa: Sure. Will Angie go find Bella? There are so many other-

Drew: Angie could have run after Bella, and Bella’s on a date with some other, I don’t know. There are so many fun things that could have happened.

Riese: I wanted Bella to walk in.

Drew: That could have been even more fun. They kiss.

Analyssa: I really thought Bella was going to be Angie’s date to the wedding. I thought it was going to be a whole thing that was like, “I was going to bring Hendrix, but of course now we’re broken up, and also my moms hate him, so I couldn’t. Thanks for coming last minute.” And then Bella is like-

Riese: “How is my friend?”

Analyssa: Yeah, and Bella’s like, “Well, I always wanted to be your date to the wedding. Here’s why.”

Riese: I love the moment where they’re at the party and they turn around and they see that person standing there in their attire. Although I guess that exact thing happened with Dre, but it was not at the right moment.

Drew: Poor Dre.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Poor Dre.

Analyssa: Poor Dre.

Riese: Oh my God. I reread my recap just to refresh my memory of what happened. And Dre, they looked so cute in their suit. Oh my God, it broke my heart all over again for this fictional character. But anyway, that love triangle I’m sure would be messy.

Drew: And hot.

Riese: And hot also.

Drew: Because of what happens to Micah and what happens to Tess, I was not happy with how it ended with Dre. But as far as leaving trans characters or trans actors in a bad spot, at least that is fairly low-stakes.

Analyssa: That’s gay hookup show drama; that just happens in the natural course of things. The things that felt horrible-

Riese: Cruel?

Analyssa: Yeah, were like the cruel, “Oh, cool. We’re near murder-”

Riese: With Tess and with Micah.

Analyssa: “…and we’re near breakup for no reason.” It just felt bad. Who’s left?

Riese: Alice. Alice and Tasha back together.

Analyssa: Alice and Tasha I feel like live happily ever after. I do think The Alice Show gets canceled pretty brutally coming up soon, so that’s something we have to deal with. I bet Alice doesn’t-

Riese: If The L Word: Gen Q didn’t get canceled then The Alice Show would have.

Analyssa: Exactly. I think Alice would go on a podcast revenge tour trying to be like, I don’t know, “I can be famous without them,” but she ends up just being embarrassed about stuff she says. I don’t know, she’s so goofy.

Riese: I would love her to learn something from Tasha instead of just, you know?

Drew: I was going a different route. She has a standup special called Silenced.

Analyssa: Maybe she tries to do a standup special or a podcast tour or something. She tries to go scorched earth and Tasha’s like, “What if it’s nice that you don’t host the show? It makes you kind of unfun.”

Riese: “Why don’t you just start a home decor line?”

Drew: I would watch a Hacks-esque show-

Analyssa: Ooh.

Drew: …about Alice as the Jean Smart character and a young, let’s make it someone with a lot of marginalized identities, that Alice can just be terrible about. Let’s do that show.

Riese: I would love to eventually though see Alice evolve and change and grow.

Drew: Well, that would happen throughout the course of my spinoff show about the trans woman who’s stuck taking care of Alice’s ego.

Analyssa: She’s her assistant post-Alice Show cancellation, so it’s really just Alice management. There’s not a lot else going on.

Riese: I love that idea. That’s perfect.

Drew: Let’s see.

Riese: Shane.

Drew: Oh, God. I hope Shane just figures out being non-monogamous, opens up a salon.

Analyssa: You and Kate Moennig both.

Riese: Gets back into hair, maybe Ivy comes back in town.

Analyssa: I forgot.

Drew: Wait, Ivy has a kid, right?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: So, Shane finally gets her family and is a surrogate parent to Ivy’s kid, and Shane continues to learn and grow up, but also goes off and has sexcapades and it’s sometimes with Ivy, sometimes not with Ivy. Great stuff.

Riese: They did retcon that and have Shane suddenly be totally against having kids when Quiara wanted to have kids, even though she wanted to have kids when she was younger and she lost Shay. But I think we could retcon it back.

Drew: This is our show.

Riese: This is our show, so Shane’s getting the family that she’s always dreamed of with Ivy and her tank tops. Bette and Tina. We’ve already… Bette and Tina moved to Toronto and rented a condo.

Drew: And Tina died.

Riese: Okay, in Drew’s ending Tina dies. I don’t want anyone to die.

Drew: I don’t want anyone to die either, but sometimes it happens.

Riese: I don’t want anyone to ever die.

Drew: I know, it’s brutal.

Riese: Except Donald Trump.

Drew: But it was so sudden. It was really brutal.

Analyssa: Who’s left? Carrie and Misty?

Drew: Aw.

Riese: They’re cute. They remain Finley’s parents, and eventually grandparents to Finley and Sophie’s children.

Drew: Carrie gets some queer friends who are also fat and learns that she doesn’t have to-

Analyssa: Carrie starts hanging out in different circles than the ones that she’s been forced to hang out in.

Riese: Maybe she makes more bowling friends.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I feel like the bowling league is a great place to start for that. Now that she’s dating Misty, she hasn’t ruined the bowling league, so she can go back to the bowling league. I feel like that’s a great place to make new friends of all different ages, sizes, professions, class, all sorts of different stuff that she’s not been… at Bowl-a-rama.

Riese: Tess’ Bowl-a-Rama.

Analyssa: And Tess owns it. Exactly.

Drew: Oh, the show writes itself.

Riese: I did ask AI to tell me what would happen to Shane, and they said that she would keep working on her sobriety. And I asked what would happen to Tess, and they said that her and Gigi have a really strong connection and that they will keep building that connection. I thought, “Interesting. I wonder where you’re getting this from.” Anyway, I did provide feedback on both answers to correct their factual errors, so that-

Drew: Don’t teach the robot!

Riese: …hopefully it can become a better AI. Well, listen-

Analyssa: What did you feed into the AI?

Riese: I said, “What will happen next for Tess on The L Word: Generation Q?”

Analyssa: I see.

Riese: It gave me a lot of answers, but those were the ones that were funniest, because they were the incorrect ones. The other ones are pretty generic, you know?

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: She could get into LGBT community and building blah, blah, blah, working on herself or pursue meditation.

Drew: Fun fact. Marja’s initial pitch was also crafted by just typing words into an AI chat generator. People don’t know that. It’s a little industry insider fun fact.

Riese:
That is very insidery.

Analyssa: Drew, when you said the show writes itself, I was like, “Well, and haven’t we heard that before?”

Riese: Anyway, is there anyone left?

Drew: Tom? What’s Tom up to?

Riese: Oh, Tom. I think he’s going to live happily ever after.

Analyssa: Tom is raising his baby with his new-

Riese: I just want everyone to be happy.

Drew: That’s nice. But Tom’s kid is queer, and because of Tom’s experience dating a bisexual woman, he’s able to be a much better father to a queer child.

Analyssa: Can you imagine Tom showing up with even a six-year-old being like, “My kid says he’s queer. Can someone help?” And Alice, Bette, Shane are like, “Yes. We have advice.”

Drew: Incredible.

Analyssa: Exactly. It’ll be beautiful.

Riese: In conclusion, I’m pretty bummed it was canceled even though I hated about half of it.

Analyssa: Even though it made me viscerally angry, I am pretty sad that it’s not coming back. And even though we kind of knew after a couple of months of it not getting announced, I think Riese is right, what you said at the beginning. There was still, “But maybe. Maybe it’ll come back.”

Riese: It’s a good, strong franchise, the social media-

Analyssa: I don’t know. It caused a lot of conversation I feel like, and maybe that’s just we were hearing all the people who were having the conversation.

Riese: In the conversation.

Analyssa: Maybe elsewhere, nobody knows that this show is happening, but I just feel like it was really fun to have something that was rally-aroundable and is eventized. A League of Their Own, I know a ton of people watched, but it wasn’t as like, “When is everyone watching?”

Drew: Because all the episodes were dropped at once, which was the worst decision ever. If A League of Their Own had been weekly, it would have been even more of a phenomenon, and it pisses me off so much that didn’t happen.

Analyssa: Because word of mouth is so important for queer shows especially. We talk to our friends who talk to their friends, and eventually a bar in LA is hosting a watch party, you know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I think that’s such a fun part of the experience and makes you really feel like you’re watching with people. That’s the thing that I think I am sad about this show about queer community, also built queer community when it was airing. It offered an opportunity for that.

Riese: This franchise started this community.

Analyssa: And then continued in the comments. Every recap that Riese posts gets hundreds of comments, because people are just dying to talk about the show they just watched, and watch parties in real bars. That’s really fun. Or the Discord we did that we watched along with people was so fun. So, that is a bummer, and I will miss our friends.

Riese: I think as a franchise for some reason, for better or for worse, it brought us all together, and for some reason it’s like our weird, little community problem that we just have, that we keep returning to, but it for some reason brings everyone together. We all watch it. It’s a big enough cast that everyone can find somebody they’re into. I feel sad for the cast, because I think it was probably really cool to be able to work with each other, you know?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And I think it’s sad for us, for our website traffic. Also, for all of our listeners for To L and Back who enjoyed listening to us talk about the show for better and for worse throughout our time. But maybe we’ll find something else to talk about.

Drew: Maybe we’ll see you in New York.

Riese: Or maybe we’ll see you in New York.

Analyssa: Now that I have my windpipe fixed, I’m ready to podcast about truly anything. Can talk for ages.

Riese: Yeah, we could talk about a different TV show, or we could talk about movies. Drew never talks about movies.

Analyssa: We can never get Drew to talk about movies, so that would be a really good opportunity.

Drew: Fine, fine, I’ll talk about movies. It would be fun in what I was talking about as far as there are so many queer movies that come out each year that deserve deep dives. I would… Monthly movie club, To L and Back monthly Movie Club.

Analyssa: Movie club.

Drew: I would love that.

Riese: That’d be fun.

Drew: Weekly is tough, but once a month we pick a movie that came out in the last three months that’s queer. Be super cool.

Riese: That would be fun. I always wanted to do a podcast that was a deep dive on the history and the culture around different shows that had queer characters in them at the time, and talking about what they mean today. But that’s one of those things that I think about when I think about, I don’t know, writing a TV show or building a treehouse.

Analyssa: Owning a home?

Riese: Or owning something that’s worth more than $50. So, it’s in the fantasy space at this time.

Analyssa: But it’s nice to have a dream column.

Drew: When you sell Autostraddle to Tess, who realizes that the best place to create community is online, then you can-

Riese: Then she’ll fund my dream podcast, my dreamcast.

Drew: I don’t know how Tess became a millionaire, but all of a sudden Tess became a millionaire in my fantasy.

Riese: I think the insurance settlement, because the other man died in the car crash and they thought that he was her husband, and so she got all of his money, because he was rich from modeling for Abercrombie & Fitch. That was just the vibe I got from him, even though he was a cater waiter.

Analyssa: He was just doing that for fun to try to connect with people, you know?

Riese: Yeah, and to deliver his product.

Analyssa: He was trying to make a switch into acting and dealing, so he’s like, “I’m going to connect with real people for a while to emote.”

Drew: Well, this was fun. RIP Tina Kennard.

Riese: RIP L Word: Gen Q. Thanks for all the memories and all the fun times we had.

Lauren Klein: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at ToLandBack, and you can also email us at ToLandBackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram at laurentaylorklein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram at analocaa with two A’s, and on Twitter at analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard Everywhere at Autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle, and of course, the reason why we’re all here, Autostraddle.com.

Analyssa: This is where the song “Graduation” by Vitamin C would play.

Riese: That would be ideal if we could queue that up. Are we going to do Q words?

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: Wow. Well, you just said “queue that up.”

Drew: You did say “queue that up,” so maybe you finally broke. The reason there’s no more Gen Q is because you finally didn’t say “quincemeat,” you said “Q.”

Riese: I was hoping to get to say “quincemeat” one more time in the podcast.

Analyssa: Let’s do Q words.

Drew: Ready?

Riese: Uh-huh.

Drew: 3, 2, 1, quincemeat.

Analyssa: Quincemeat.

Riese: Quincemeat. Everyone said “quincemeat.” You guys.

Analyssa: So true, Riese.

Riese: I love you. Wow, what a great show.

Analyssa: The final quincemeat.

Riese: Carol is so excited.

Analyssa: If you get to write the Christmas special that inevitably ends the whole Gen Q thing, do you think you’ll just title it Quincemeat?

Riese: Yes. I’ll be like, “Christmas with Quincemeat: An L-Word-”

Analyssa: Yeah, if it’s a Christmas special. If it’s a Christmas episode.

Riese: “… Back to LA.”

Analyssa: A quincemeat truffle or whatever. I don’t know, we’re already making shit up.

Riese: They’re going to have it at an Airbnb in Palm Springs maybe, or maybe Joshua Tree. It’s hard to decide. I have so many creative options available to me on this project I haven’t been commissioned to produce, but again, would love to.

To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 310: We Just Wanted To Have Fun With Our Friends

Well, well, well! If this season was all episodes featuring a big event, this sure is a fitting finale. This week, on the final episode of the season (and potentially, sadly, the series, as we haven’t heard any renewal news yet), Bette and Tina wed, finally strolling off together, hand in hand, into the sunset and (presumably) their long-awaited happily ever after.

So much of what happens at the wedding is delightful: Bette and Tina are locked in the walk-in fridge, Alice is responsible for booze and CALLING TASHA (to save the brides of course), Sophie and Pippa share a beautiful flirtatious afternoon. G Flip and Chrishell arrive, and Roxy is back to play and Dani is on drugs! So it’s also a big bummer that Tess, Micah and Maribel specifically end the season in truly dour places, and I feel at this point in the season it’s okay for me to be honest about that in this post! From the low of a relapse storyline to the highs of every single second Tasha was onscreen, this feels a fitting (if frustrating) send-off to the season we loved to discuss so much.

Please let us know in the comments if you ALSO spotted Ilene Chaiken in the crowd at the wedding, or if you know why G Flip and Chrishell were guests. We love you, we’ll miss you, we hope you enjoyed the ride! (And if you did, please consider donating to Autostraddle!!!)

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SHOW NOTES

+ The reason Riese called Drew the poppers queen was this essay
+ We make a lot of references to this interview with Gen Q showrunner Marja-Lewis Ryan in this ep
+ Carmen on her love of Pippa Pascal, who is also discussed in this roundtable On Blackness and the L Word
+ Both Daniel Sea interviews again, for good measure
+ Sort Of and P Valley both made the TV team’s top shows of 2022
+ I can’t remember why I’m linking this but Drew and Shelli are covering Sundance!
+ The G Flip & Chrishell explainer, thank you Anya!
+ The podcast You’re Wrong About, which did a series on Princess Diana
+ Arienne Mandi’s holiday movie (also starring Melora Hardin!), Love, Classified
+ One more plug: if you enjoyed this podcast, please consider donating to Autostraddle!!!
+ The time we met the cast of The L Word: Gen Q, three long and wild years ago, kicking off truly one of the most messy months of all of our young lives:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5td8XbHuNr/

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition

Drew: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition

Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition. Well?

Drew: Here we are. The finale.

Riese: The finale. We’re recording so late because it took a long time to get screeners.

Analyssa: I was going to say “the long awaited finale” in more than one way.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I do think it’s worth noting this is the least amount of time between the three of us watching an episode collectively all together and then recording the podcast.

Riese: Yeah. We just watched it an hour ago.

Analyssa: I watched it just before I got in my car to come over here.

Riese: Right. I watched it just before you guys got here because we didn’t get it until-

Analyssa: And usually we have a few days before we end up being able to schedule to record the podcast so…

Riese: Yeah. Usually I like to have the recap mostly done before we record.

Drew: Yeah. I do think that maybe they kept it from us because they knew that if I couldn’t rant about it on a mic, I would explode out in the world.

Analyssa: They were trying to contain Drew.

Drew: Maybe.

Analyssa: Specifically.

Drew: Potentially.

Riese: I liked it.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I fall, as always, somewhere in the middle.

Drew: There are things about it that I think are great.

Riese: I’m sure by the end of this, Drew will have convinced me to hate it.

Drew: No, I don’t want to do that. Should I just leave? Should I just let you guys… I feel like you got it. I feel like… Also, I want to say before we start that I’m going into this with the knowledge that this could be the last episode of the series, and also with the knowledge that if the showrunner of The L Word: Generation Q was familiar with how television worked, she would know that this very well could be the last episode.

And so with that in mind, I think any TV show you should think about this with a season finale, unless there’s certain shows where we know they’re not going to get canceled and they’re hits and they’re whatever. But your queer show that doesn’t do a lot of numbers that took forever to get renewed this last time, this very well could be the series finale, not just of The L Word: Generation Q, but of The L Word franchise, which means a lot to a lot of people.

And I honestly think that they did do that. I honestly think that they went into this episode making sure to give a happy sendoff to the people who they see as people. And with that, we can start.

Riese: There is, though, I think always the possibility that even if the show is canceled, that I will be hired to write an L Word Christmas special.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And we should be holding out hope for that.

Riese: And obviously, I would have you help me.

Drew: Thank you. Frankly, you could do that just like an AO3 situation.

Analyssa: The next iteration of this podcast is just us workshopping Riese’s Christmas movie.

Riese: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much. But also, the thing is this long wait between to find out renewals is new. That’s a new thing in the age of streaming. When the original series aired, you’d find out mid-season if next season. So it’s such a weird new thing that showrunners are doing where they don’t know when they finish this season, if it’s going to be the season finale. Like that, it never was like that before. So it’s very weird. It’s a weird position for everybody to be in, I guess. Especially us.

Drew: Yeah. Really. This episode is Gen Q 3.10: “Looking Ahead”. It’s directed by Leisha Hailey, and it is written by Marja as well as Scout Comm, and Courtney Edwards. Scout Comm is the script coordinator this season so I’m really glad that they got an episode credit. That’s huge. Courtney Edwards, I couldn’t find that much information about unless, I don’t know. There’s another name that’s similar and I’m trying to figure out if it’s that person or not. But either-

Riese: DM us, Courtney. There’s no-

Drew: Yeah. I would love-

Riese: What’s your story?

Drew: Yeah, who are you?

Riese: So tell us about you. What’s your favorite color? What do you do for fun?

Analyssa: It’s possible that both of them are support staff and that’s writing support staff. And that’s why there’s not a ton of stuff on the internet.

Drew: Yeah. That seems right. And so I’m really happy, regardless of anything else about this episode, getting that first credit’s huge, so very happy.

Analyssa: Especially as a finale episode, that’s a pretty big thing to put on your resume. You don’t really use resumes in the general or in a traditional sense, but to have in your pocket as something that you did is really cool.

Riese: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Usually it’s just the showrunner. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: But we have a lot to talk about. So let’s dive in. Well, we begin with Alice in wedding planner mode, and she’s in wedding planner mode because the wedding planner is-

Riese: Banging Shane. In the bathroom. She’s gay, but she was in Severance, which was one of my favorite shows of 2022, and I highly recommend it. Believe it or not, it’s actually a little bit better than The L Word. But they actually have full intercourse-

Analyssa: Full sex?

Riese: Nice. Thank you. Finally got that in.

Drew: We knew it’d be Shane to bring us back.

Analyssa: So yeah. Alice is planning the wedding because Shane is fucking the wedding planner. And then Tina and Bette are getting ready in a bridal suite.

Riese: I cannot believe they’re doing their own makeup.

Analyssa: The way that this wedding so rapidly oscillates between being explained as a very luxurious event, but then it’s also a very-

Riese: Thrown together in a week

Analyssa: …shoestring. Yeah.

Riese: But there’s like no chance on earth they’d be doing their own makeup.

Drew: No.

Riese: Like zero. I was also like, did they do their own hair? Thank God they didn’t do their own hair. But I was like, wow. Wow. Intense. I mean, it’s that hoarder. She has infinite money. She went to Toronto without a job or a passport just to sit on the sidelines of Murdoch Mysteries, and that is obviously true love, as we see. Anyway, Tina might be going through menopause, might not.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That’s a cliffhanger right there.

Analyssa: That’s one thing that we’ll never get an answer to if this doesn’t get us next season.

Riese: Right. We’ll never know.

Drew: Alice has a fun little dress on that’s both black and white polka dot and rainbow. It’s definitely a choice.

Riese: I liked it. I thought it was cute.

Drew: Yeah. And Alice needs to get alcohol, which she has forgotten to do.

Riese: You know what I would do in this situation? Just like I’m just spitballing here. I would like, have you ever been to BevMo!?

Analyssa: Right, right, right.

Riese: Ralph’s, Costco, the corner store.

Analyssa: Costco would be great. They’d have a ton of stuff to get.

Riese: Yeah, Costco. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of options that I would go to-

Drew: Before calling-

Riese: …before calling my ex. Yeah. Although also, I don’t even, in that case, I might call Finley and stuff.

Analyssa: But I was going to say, the other thing I probably would’ve done is called the other friend who works at the same location and at least have Finley run in between the two of them.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But Alice is immediately, you have to call Tess.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, my bigger problem is that the wedding planner says to Shane, “I’m a Capricorn moon, so I love to serve.” which that just didn’t… I mean, if someone, I’m not an expert with astrology, so if someone wants to explain why that’s the case…

Riese: Are you a Capricorn moon?

Drew: I am.

Riese: Oh, I have-

Analyssa: You’re a Capricorn moon, also?

Drew: I’m Capricorn sun. No. Oh, sorry, not moon. I’m Capricorn Mars. Did she say Mars or did she say moon?

Analyssa: No, she said moon, by the way.

Drew: Okay. Either way, does that explain… Why… It should be Mars, right? That’s sex and also…

Analyssa: Right. But she’s making a joke about work too.

Drew: Yeah, I guess okay.

Riese: Don’t look at me for astrology.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: I looked at you. I turned to you.

Drew: Tell us if that checks out. I guess like serve maybe has just different connotations to me. If she was like, I love to work hard, I’d be like, okay. But there was just-

Analyssa: Get the job done.

Drew: Yeah. But something about serve felt, I was like, I don’t know. It didn’t work for me astrologically, but

Riese: Well, take it up with the stars.

Drew: I’m a Taurus moon. For the record.

Riese: Take it up with the stars!

Drew: Anyways, so then we go to Tess who walks into the bar with a very obvious hangover.

Analyssa: And look, for now, what I’ll say about this storyline is I was just glad to not see that damn purple coffee mug. The fact that they did not bring this coffee mug back out was one small mercy of this storyline for me.

Drew: Yeah. Finley comes in, there’s some back and forth about Finley has a new place now and how gross it is, apparently. And she’s like, you should come see my new place. And then Tess has this moment of like, oh shit, I’m going to have to get new furniture when I get my own new place.

Riese: She’s not. Shane will leave the furniture.

Drew: And Finley’s like, “Fuck Shane, I’m on your side.”

Riese: Right. Sure. Okay.

Drew: Back to the wedding.

Riese: Roxy comes back. That’s exciting. I didn’t know that was going to happen.

Analyssa: That was fun.

Riese: And we loved her.

Analyssa: I was really excited to see her. We learned that Dani ghosted Dre after they said that they wanted to get more serious,

Riese: But also Dre left Dani and was like, I’m cutting out of this.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: So who’s the ghost?

Analyssa: Once again?

Drew: No. We obviously have to make it not Dani’s fault. It obviously needs to be Dre’s fault. Whatever. It’s like, it’s fine. It’s so funny because I was so excited about Roxy when Roxy was introduced, and her and Dani are so fun together. And then to end the last episode with Dani and Dre, how they were also very clearly Dani had feelings for Dre. So to then be like, Dani ghosted, you’re like, what? Okay. Like what? Okay. And Sophie’s worried that Alice is mad at her.

Riese: Everyone’s outfits are great, I just want to say.

Analyssa: Yes, everyone-

Riese: Especially Dani looks spectacular.

Analyssa: Everyone looks amazing in this episode. They knocked it out of the park. Sophie’s also set a really big goal for the wedding to get laid.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: That’s a big thing that she’s talking about.

Riese: Yeah. Good for her.

Drew: Sophie, the only character in this episode that I feel really good about.

Riese: All right.

Drew: Roxy gives Dani molly and Dani’s like, “Molly doesn’t work on me.” It seems weird to me that this season has had so many repeat storylines. Like, yes-

Riese: They did molly earlier?

Drew: No, but they had, they just this season had so many different drug things. You have Micah at an event where Micah’s high, and now you have Dani high. And not that people don’t do drugs. I get it. But it is just like-

Riese: Drew. Queen poppers.

Drew: I do. I’m really the only person here who does drugs, but it’s just to make it a storyline.

Riese: I did drugs when I was your age.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: But now I’m old.

Analyssa: I also did drugs when I was your age.

Drew: We’re the same age. But yeah. And then two episodes ending with an almost death and just these things where I’m-

Analyssa: Even Dani being torn between two people at the end of this episode. I was like, wait, deja vu. It’s not the same, but her being involved in a…

Drew: Yeah. Anyways, it’s fine.

Riese: I know there’s a lot of questionable character choices in it, but I don’t know, with the exception of the Micah and Maribel stuff that I’m sure we’ll get into and the Tess stuff, it had a good energy to me. You know what I mean? It was funny. It was fast paced. It felt like the vibes were good. I just had fun watching it, and I felt emotionally invested in a lot of things. Then there were those two things that are profoundly upsetting.

Drew: But I think part of the problem for me is that there were things about this episode that I really liked and we’re going to get into them, and it felt-

Riese: Mean?

Drew: It felt mean. It felt just very apparent. And I don’t want to do a summary of the episode when we’re two scenes in, but it just feels so blatant. Even though season six ended with Max being humiliated and it was terrible, at least Jenny had been killed and everyone was going to be arrested, and it was terrible.

Riese: But that’s terrible.

Drew: No, it’s awful. Jenny’s death is one of my least favorite. I was just talking to someone about this, how much Jenny’s death is one of the worst deaths. I hate it. It bothers me more than Dana’s death. But I’m just saying that universally, it was terrible, whereas-

Analyssa: Everything was going wrong.

Drew: Whereas here, it’s literally like the trans actors, the disabled actor, and everyone else pretty much gets a really good wrapped up happy ending.

Riese: Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: And that feels brutal. Anyways, let’s carry on because there is a lot of fun stuff.

Riese: Bette and Tina, they go to the walk-in, and it’s a secret, special kind of walk-in, I guess with a weird door situation unlike a door that I’ve ever witnessed, and I’ve spent a lot of time sitting in walk-ins, because that’s what you do with the Olive Garden when you’re hot and you want to eat desserts out of the box.

Drew: We do learn that Bette and Tina were previously married at the courthouse.

Analyssa: Thank God. I was like-

Riese: The relief.

Analyssa: I watched that and I said, I’m so happy for Riese.

Riese: Thank you so much.

Analyssa: It truly is like they heard you.

Riese: It is. Yeah. I appreciated that. And it was very calming to me.

Drew: There are actually quite a few things that throughout this episode that could have been said three episodes of ago.

Riese: Yeah. There was quite a few things. Yeah. I mean, there’s one really big one, but there’s a lot. But yeah, there’s a lot of things where I was like, finally, this is being coming up. This is coming around. But I’m like, why did they wait until now? That’s kind of weird.

Analyssa: Again, once again, referencing the letterboxed review of someone I don’t know, of just needing 72 hours in edit bay. I was like, I would’ve put this scene three episodes ago. And then me, Analyssa, I never would’ve been mad about this plot line. Would’ve been so much easier.

Riese: Yeah. I just wonder what happened. The last, when they were working on a script, oh, we never really explained this. Or was it on set? Someone was like, we really should address this.

Drew: I think Scout Comm and Courtney Edwards are in that room. They’ve been sitting in that room as script coordinator saying-

Riese: And they’re like, someone mentioned they were married before.

Analyssa: A script coordinator would be like, I have my eyes on the fact that we’ve never brought up this, this, and this. Let’s get those things handled.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Yeah. A script coordinator is very detailed. They track every change to a script. They’re continuity people. They’re in charge of that kind of thing.

Riese: Oh, wow. They probably came with some notes.

Drew: So I’m going to give credit to those first time television writers and say that, thank you for making us feel slightly less crazy.

Analyssa: There’s also some fun fan service for… It might not hit for everybody, but I did. I loved the attempt of Bette and Tina being like, I want our friends to see us get married. And what they really mean is the L Word audience.

Riese: They’ve seen us through all this.

Analyssa: They’ve seen us through all this. They want this for us. It’ll be so fun to celebrate with them. I thought that was sweet.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know. That interview that recently came out with Marja-Lewis Ryan, we did learn about one of her strengths isn’t arcs, that she’s still learning how to get arcs down, so I do think it makes sense to be like, oh yeah, a lot of stuff was explained this episode, and if you had an understanding of arcs, maybe you would put that in throughout the season. But if that’s one of your flaws, and we all have flaws, we’re not perfect.

Riese: Like, I don’t want to be CEO of my company.

Analyssa: For one recent anecdotal example. Sure.

Riese: Yeah. I just want to write things. Maybe run a TikTok.

Drew: I think maybe Marja just wants to act again and Marja says she should go back.

Riese: Maybe we’ve all just found ourselves in positions we didn’t expect to be in.

Drew: I don’t want to be hosting an L Word podcast. I’ll tell you that.

Riese: Drew. Drew, how dare you!

Drew: We can cut that. No, we probably won’t. But no, I love it. But yes, it is very much, so much of what this episode does well is giving fans of the original series a real sort of happy ending closure; lesbians getting married for Bette and Tina and also-

Riese: Well, Tina’s bisexual.

Drew: I would like to apologize to-

Riese: The bisexual community.

Drew: …the 50 plus year old cis white-

Analyssa: Drew, look at me in my eyeballs.

Drew: …bisexual community for the offense that I’ve done. But yeah, I mean also Alice in talk, which we’ll get to, I think those two things are really the point of this episode. Yeah. It was. And I’m happy for you if that’s something you’re invested in.

Riese: The forced smile Drew just gave us. It was really incredible.

Analyssa: Anyway, they’re locked in the fridge as we know.

Drew: They’re locked in the fridge.

Analyssa: As we all knew what happened as soon as they walked into the fridge.

Riese: Usually, the handle. It’s like this big. It’s bigger. It’s like the size of a two year old, and it’s like you pull it’s, and also doesn’t, whatever. It’s fine.

Drew: It doesn’t make any sense. I actually didn’t think it was going to happen because it didn’t make sense to me, but that’s fine. Did we do a locked in a thing so far this season?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: This season? No. Okay. But there was the elevator thing. Yeah, sure. Of course. I mean, I do love when people get locked in a place.

Drew: I also love that.

Analyssa: Oh, we did Locked Out, Tess and Shane.

Drew: We did do locked out.

Riese: We locked out. Locked out. That’s an arc. I think that’s an arc is. Yeah. You go home locked out to locked in, and then you’ve written a story.

Drew: And that’s the difference between-

Riese: In 60 minutes.

Drew: Between Shane and between Bette and Tina is Bette and Tina locked in.

Analyssa: They’re locked in.

Drew: Shane, locked out.

Riese: Locked out. Locked out. Locked out on a ledge.

Analyssa: For one brief second, there’s like a throwaway line about how now there’s alcohol. Alice is talking to some person who has brought the alcohol. And for one brief moment, I was like, they’re not even going to bring Tess. That’s amazing.

Riese: Right. I thought so too.

Analyssa: That appealed so good to me.

Riese: Yeah. Why would Tess come?

Drew: I noted that-

Riese: Again, BevMo!

Analyssa: BevMo exists.

Drew: That extra or whatever the right word is for the person who’s like, didn’t say anything because obviously that person, you talk, you talk, it’s a thing.

Analyssa: He got to get paid.

Drew: And I was paid and I was like, oh, I wish that they’d given that person some lines so that they could have gotten health insurance, but that person doesn’t. So it’s kind of awkward. And then Sophie goes up to Alice and they have this nice little moment where they reconcile. And Alice is like, you did a great job. You’re getting promoted. I just want to be mad at you. And Sophie’s like, oh my God.

Analyssa: This was, I feel showed so much of what Riese was talking about. The episode does well, they’re, the two of them have a real sparkle. It was just so delightful.

Riese: Another part of the episode that was incredibly delightful is that Pippa shows up.

Drew: This is the best thing about this episode.

Riese: And I was like, holy shit. Because I was like, she’s not like, that’s it. I watched Vanessa Estelle Williams did a Insta Story or something on set, but she didn’t say what she was on the set of. And I watched it 20 times trying to figure out, do I see any people who look vaguely gay in the background? It looked like they were outside or something, and it could not have been this, honestly, but I was like, it must have been something else. And maybe it wasn’t.

Drew: Yeah. Sophie is talking to herself about wanting to get laid, and then Pippa is like, I heard you-

Riese: Looking amazing.

Drew: And they have such good chemistry. They’re both so hot.

Riese: So hot.

Drew: It’s so good. And also, I’m just like, okay, Autostraddle editor-in-chief, Carmen.

Riese: I was just about to say this!

Drew: I know. I was so happy for Carmen.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, when the Bette and Pippa relationship was happening that one of the things that a lot of people of color on the Autostraddle writing staff, but Carmen especially, was like, this is so cool to see two black women who are just in a relationship having feelings for each other. I was just so, and Sophie being one of Carmen’s favorite characters maybe ever. I was just like,

Riese: Yes. Yeah, I know.

Drew: I texted Carmen and was like,

Riese: Oh, you did? Because I almost texted her! I was gonna say like, if you could find an hour for yourself this weekend, you should watch this.

Drew: Yeah. I said, there are so many problems with the finale of the outward generation queue, but there are two things that feel specifically for you, and I just want you to promise me you’re going to turn off your critic hat and turn off your care about other people hat and really enjoy those things. Really enjoy those because it’ll bring me joy.

Riese: Yeah, I know. My absolute first thought was, I am so happy for Carmen.

Analyssa: Me too. But then unfortunately, Finley is here to interrupt what could have been smoldering sexual chemistry for a while.

Riese: A I know. And I have been the biggest Sinley shipper ever, and it would take a lot to get me to root for Sophie to be with someone else, and this episode did accomplish that for me.

Drew: Yeah, it does. Yeah. It really does.

Riese: It does. Yeah.

Analyssa: I still, in my heart of hearts was like, okay, I understand. I deeply want Sinley to be together, but what if Sophie dated Pippa just for this one day and they got to kiss a little bit? Wouldn’t that be great?

Drew: I ship them forever now. I become the-

Riese: They’re much better for each other.

Drew: The audience who’s like, I want the queers to get married. I’m like, no, I get it.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Marry them.

Riese: So yeah, Finley wants her toaster back. I think that’s the last time Sophie and Finley talked to each other.

Drew: So then we go to Micah and Maribel and one of those Amazon robots has delivered a canister of sperm. That’s how it works. You just order off the internet and it arrives at your house.

Riese: Yeah, you can. There’s a lot of paperwork, I think. I didn’t do this route because it’s not the route that you do if you have anything complicated about your pregnancy. You don’t do an at-home insemination. It’s more likely done if you’re younger, whatever. Everything. It’s not the best. I don’t think it’s the best option for them.

Analyssa: It’s more likely done if you’re a Bette and Tina in season one of the original.

Riese: Yes. They would be a great example of that. And I mean that is how it… I haven’t gotten it that way, but I think that is how it comes in what it looks like. I don’t really understand the blue thing, when you get it done in doctor’s office. I don’t think it was blue, but I don’t know. It’s kind of disassociating because it’s weird. I don’t like having a body. At first I was like $700? But if you’re doing it at home, the sperm is a little bit cheaper. But that is kind of on the cheap side.

Analyssa: The way that I felt joy when Pippa and Sophie started making eyes at each other for Carmen. I felt deep despair for my friends, Riese and Drew, for this story. As soon as this started happening, I was like, huh.

Drew: I wish I could go back in time though and tell the Drew of two hours ago that this moment of this storyline is-

Riese: Not the worst.

Drew: The best we’re going to get.

Riese: Right. I would like to say that for a show that began with Tina saying, “I’m ovulating” back in 2004, I was a little bit confused about whether or not Maribel was ovulating. It just didn’t come up. They were, I was like, why are you taking the sperm out right now? It happened to, why did it just come on the day? This is her ovulation day. Is she monitoring any of that? Did she, whatever.

Drew: Yeah. She did say the clock is ticking at one point, but

Riese: She was talking about the sperm that they had for some reason already taken out. Because at first, I was like, “Oh, the clock is ticking. You know you only have a few hours or whatever.” And then, the other thing about it that annoyed me was this will be a baby in nine months. What? No. It won’t. Only if it works!

Drew: It’s a little bit of an anti-abortion sort of fetus, not even fetus, but sperm is a person?

Riese: Yeah. Every time someone with sperm and someone who makes eggs have sex, do they say this is going to be a baby in nine months? Because that’s the same thing as what they’re doing right now.

Drew: Yeah. It’s fucking weird.

Riese: It’s really weird. It’s fine.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s fine. It’s weird. It’s fine. And also it’s weird because this is the only other thing that isn’t part of the wedding. So it’s like it’s separate in so many ways. Tess is like what? She’s about to go perform at a Vegas lounge, the way that she rolls up in her glitter dress…

Analyssa: This dress…

Riese: … with her smoldering facial expressions?

Analyssa: This dress, the fact that she was at her work in athleisure, basically hungover, and then now is full face of makeup. I respect that “I’m going to see my ex” energy. I know that we don’t deal in the temporal realities in The L Word, but I was just like, this is crazy. And this was the plot line that I was then feeling despair for myself obviously. Yeah.

Riese: Shane and Tess eye each other.

Drew: Yeah. Shane and Tess are like very flirty.

Analyssa: Also, sorry, Tess is now working the event basically. They didn’t just call her and say, can we get a bunch of alcohol from Dana’s? Which first of all, if I’d just been dumped by one of the bridal party, I’d be like, “Go fuck yourself,” number one. But number two now, she’s like serving up drinks kind of. It’s bizarre.

Drew: It makes no sense. Yeah. There are other bartenders who work, we’ve seen whenever they have parties.

Riese: It’s also, but there was this weird power dynamic with Shane owns the bar and Tess works for her. But that was never really addressed. And this is the first time, and it’s like, “Well, this is kind of why that’s a little bit hard.” Yeah.

Drew: Alice was like, “It’s showtime,” which I was like, “Yes.” And when Alice and Shane leave, then Tess leaves to go to some random guy’s car to do cocaine.

Riese: I mean, that is a realistic depiction of what you do to get cocaine.

Analyssa: Literally, I was like, I mean, okay. I cannot argue with the fact that I’ve been there, so.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. For legal reasons. That’s a joke.

Riese: Yeah. Me too. Well, no, it doesn’t matter. No one cares when I did coke.

Drew: Yeah. He is like, “Have you ever done this before?” Which is a weird thing to ask someone who very aggressively is, “Do you have cocaine?”

Riese: I know.

Analyssa: Tess is giving off vibes of not only have I done this before, but since before you were alive, my man.

Drew: Today.

Riese: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Analyssa: But sure.

Riese: And this guy, it was like he, I don’t know, he was like an extra from a Diet Coke commercial or something.

Drew: Yeah. I have no idea who this man is.

Riese: I have no idea who this man is. Let’s call him Brett.

Analyssa: Okay. Sure. And later, when they are doing these big wedding guest crowd reveal, he’s the only man at the event.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Brett is the only man in the crowd whatsoever. He was the only man on set that day, I think. I think that there’s no…

Drew: Which really goes to show what Tina and Bette’s community is. It’s just so funny. It’s just the AfterEllen editorial staff.

Riese: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: I didn’t note any other music cues this episode. But just for old times sake, Tess putting a key of cocaine up her nose and the music going, “Did you think that you’re really in control?” I mean, that’s got to be the season best I think.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Is this when we get all the flashes? No. That’s later.

Riese: She does way too much cocaine.

Analyssa: It’s so much cocaine. Whatever.

Riese: So Bette and Tina are still in the walk-in.

Analyssa: Bette makes a little cheese plate, a little charcuterie board. It was so cute.

Riese: It was adorable. Yeah. It was like, wow, she can cook, she can clean, she can get locked in the freezer.

Drew: Tina’s mad that Bette is being so calm. Which this also, in this scene, we get to it, but I liked this as a storyline. I liked the idea of actually growth isn’t never being angry. It’s just knowing when to be angry and when to direct the anger. And I do appreciate…

Analyssa: And not to lash out at the people who are trying to help you also. Also just from a comedy standpoint, this is very funny. This is a great representation of when your partner is endlessly positive, and you’re like, “Please shut the up, and just let me be mad and you be mad with me also.”

Riese: Or you’re like, “I get that you just downloaded a meditation app and your whole life has changed. But I’m still here. I didn’t have time to do the meditation app. So let’s get back on the same page.”

Drew: Tina does have a meditation app though also. We saw.

Riese: Oh, that’s true. Tina does have the meditation app.

Drew: Anyways, Shane and Alice show up and break the other handle. And then Alice is going to call the fire department. And I’m like…

Riese: Is this show sponsored by 911?

Analyssa: Truly, the number of times this has been said, they are just itching to call, any little thing.

Riese: Like… break the window?

Drew: Yeah. Truly.

Riese: With the hammer. Why were they like… Whatever.

Drew: Whatever, it’s so wild.

Analyssa: Second only to Fox’s 911 is this show mentioning 911 per episode.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But then Tina’s like, “I like all of you. Let all of those parts out,” and then Bette screams at Alice to call Tasha because there’s a whole thing where the fire department is delayed. There are lots of fire stations.

Riese: But also, why would they need the fire department to open a door?

Drew: Yeah. Also, they should just be like, “Call Tasha because she’s strong and hot.” I don’t know.

Riese: She’s hot. Everyone would like to see her again.

Drew: There’s no guest at this wedding who- at this gay wedding…

Riese: Gay wedding.

Drew: …that, I’m sorry, at this lesbian and bisexual joint wedding-

Riese: Get Ilene Chaikin in her wedges.

Drew: There isn’t one queer person who can roll up those sleeves and…

Analyssa: And there’s a crowbar somewhere on the guy’s property.

Drew: Come on.

Riese: I mean, honestly, Finley I’m sure would be happy to try. Finley would love to save the day. Finley didn’t really do anything in this episode!

Drew: Yeah. This was a real anti-Finley.

Riese: Yeah. They gave Finley so much in episode eight and then were like, “Bye.”

Analyssa: That’s enough.

Riese: “That’s enough from you. Thank you so much for being in the show.” And yeah, they yell at Alice to call Tasha. Thank God.

Analyssa: We were all thinking it.

Riese: Yeah. And then she said to Shane, “Maybe you should call her from your number.”

Drew: Yeah. Dani’s on Molly.

Riese: I thought it was so cute.

Drew: Smelling roses and then on the phone telling Dre that she loves them.

Analyssa: I want to say Dani on Molly acting and performance in this is so good.

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: It’s so funny. She nails it. I was like, “Yeah. I love it.” It’s a perfect TV representation of being on a specific drug, which is so rare.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. If they had framed it where Dre had been the one to be like… I know that when Dre left, Dre was like, “I have to leave because whatever.” I get they kind of did that. But if they had made it clearer that Dre had walked away from the relationship, it all would’ve worked so much better than throughout this, I’m feeling like, no, Dani don’t kiss Roxy. Whereas if it was like you just got rejected by Dre, I’d be like, kiss Roxy. Kiss Roxy. And my entire feeling about Dani’s Molly antics, I would’ve been having such a better time.

Riese: You know why that’s true? Because that is how I read the last episode, and I was having a great time.

Drew: Yeah. I guess it just wasn’t really done well, last episode. I wasn’t sold on it. It was like, wait, what? Why would you walk away?

Riese: It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t make sense — But I was like, I guess this is what the show has decided is that was Dre… It didn’t make sense, because it’s like why would you need some… they could certainly wait for Dani to come around. And like we talked about.

Drew: Right. And also, instead of Dani calling Dre and saying, “I love you,” Dani could have been, “I invited Dre to the wedding, but I don’t think they’re going to come.” It could have been something like that. Instead we start…

Analyssa: She’s playing too…

Drew: … Dani’s highness being like, “I love you.” And I’m like, yay. Dre’s going to show up, and they’re going to kiss, and it’s going to be fun! And it’s like, so instead, I don’t know. But Sophie brings…

Riese: The think about Molly is you can love a lot of people.

Drew: It is true. That is my favorite drug.

Riese: Yeah. The first time I did ecstasy, three different people called me to tell me they loved me.

Drew: Oh wow.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: Yeah. And I was like, this is really bizarre! And not how I thought this night was going to go. But I mean obviously I was happy to reciprocate.

Drew: Did any of those get you in trouble?

Riese: No.

Drew: The were like, it was…

Riese: It was like an ex, a friend who had been helping. I’ve been taking care of him because he was sick.

Drew: It wasn’t like love confessions.

Riese: No, no, no. It wasn’t Love confessions. No.

Drew: Sophie brings them lollipops, which is so clutch, like so good of Sophie. Dani’s very high. And we see her rainbow POV, which was fun.

Riese: She was like dancing to… Yeah.

Drew: Leisha was really having fun with the drug direction in this episode.

Riese: Yes. Her dancing to the elevator music, was that here?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That was really funny.

Analyssa: I love that this episode and last episode, Kate’s. Like you can feel their sensibilities really shining in these episodes. I thought that was so fun. I was watching this being like oh, of course Leisha Hailey directed this. This is amazing.

Riese: Of course. It was so cute.

Drew: Pippa says bye to Sophie because the wedding’s delayed. And so Pippa’s like, “I’m at my ex’s wedding. I was being nice. I’m not going to wait around while they’re stuck in a fridge.”

Analyssa: Honestly. Reasonable. Except that there’s an open bar and a lot of important people here. Schmooze, I don’t know, have fun.

Drew: And like hot people! Sophie, Dani and Roxy are like, “Are you with her?” And she’s like, “No. And should I run after her?” It’s really fun. Again, everything with Sophie and Pippa is perfection.

Riese: Yeah. And Dani’s like, “She’s this huge famous artist and she used to date Bette Porter,” and Sophie’s like, “Oh my God, she used to date Bette Porter?”

Analyssa: The quick recap from Dani while on drugs is so funny and being like, “She thinks I’m the devil, but I’m obsessed with her.” It’s perfect.

Drew: So then…

Analyssa: Yeah. And I was really thinking about the lineage of Bette Porter and Sophie and having dated Pippa, and Sophie getting a promotion, entering this rank of powerful lesbian.

Riese: Yeah. She’s dating Bette Porter’s ex.

Analyssa: Very cool.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I mean Dani already did.

Drew: So then Sophie runs after Pippa, and Dani cries. And is like, “I’m so happy that we’re friends.

Analyssa: We’re friends.

Drew: We’re really friends. So Sophie catches up with Pippa, and it’s great.

Riese: Yeah. It’s wonderful. I’m so happy for them.

Drew: Pippa makes a joke about not being mad that Tina and Bette are stuck in the fridge, which brought me so much joy. And they steal the just-married car.

Riese: Yes. Golf cart.

Analyssa: So fun.

Riese: Angie. I don’t know why we still have to keep seeing this man.

Analyssa: Why did this happen in this episode?

Riese: This was the episode for her and Bella.

Analyssa: Was he contractually obligated to seven episodes? He was in so many.

Riese: He was in so many more episodes than we needed to be.

Drew: Was he in more episodes than Micah? It was the same amount.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I’d have to look.

Riese: It might be the same amount. No. It’s less. Because he wasn’t in the first episode.

Drew: There’s no reason for him to…

Riese: And he wasn’t in the musical episode.

Drew: There is no reason for him to show…. Oh, right. Micah was in the musical episode. What a great role that was. Well why? They could have ended it the last… Why is he here just to have… It’s sort of how I felt about having Tess and Shane have that big breakup scene the way it was. Right? I just was like, wait, if you’re going to have them break up, why are you having them break up like this? Why are you giving more fuel to this? And so with this, I just was like, we need him to show up just so he can disappoint Angie again? Why couldn’t that had happened, she goes to Hendrix’s place, is like, “Let’s hook up.” And he’s like, “I’m moving to New York.” And then she runs after Bella, or Bella’s in this episode with her, something.

Riese: And also, again, as a person who used to work in the publishing industry, the idea that you would move to New York City because an editor has expressed interest in your book is absolutely batshit.

Analyssa: Deranged behavior.

Riese: Yes. Unhinged.

Analyssa: It means nothing.

Riese: I mean, the choices I could have made every time an editor was interested in my book, and as you can tell, it’s not published. So I mean, there was some comedy here, I feel like. There was some stuff with Bette and Tina and an Angie, like, “Don’t say I told you so,” or something.

Analyssa: I guess. Yeah. Angie got to…

Drew: I just felt sad about it though. It wasn’t funny to me. I guess there’s some comedy there, but I just was like, I felt for Angie and I want better for her.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. I did like that. They let her be mean to him. But again, she was already sort of doing that last episode. Why didn’t we just wrap it up there and have her bring Bella to the wedding as a consolation date and then realize that they’re in love? Fun.

Riese: We all would’ve been so entertained.

Analyssa: And that’s most important is that the three of us are as entertained as possible.

Riese: Exactly. As we made clear today to Showtime, the most important thing about their show is that we get screeners and that we get the pod-…

Analyssa: Get the podcast done.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Also, Micah and Maribel, they have their donor. That could have been the end of their storyline. And then they could have been at the wedding. I don’t know why they’re at the wedding, but they’re at the wedding.

Analyssa: Later, we’ll talk about, there’s some people at this wedding that I have no explanation for why they’re there at all. So who cares?

Riese: I mean, I like that he was dating Maribel because that brought him closer to the rest of the group as opposed to when it was Jose. And that was a tertiary thing, which is the same thing they did with Max and Tom. And it has been more integrated. They’ve had more scenes and that’s been great. But this episode obviously was not like that.

Drew: Yeah. So unfortunately we do have to go to them. And Micah’s panicking about the insemination and decides to bring up Maribel’s disability now.

Riese: Again, also, he does begin all of this by acting like putting the sperm inside of her is going to 100% result in a baby that will be born in nine months. And I just don’t understand why they’re acting like that. But yeah, now they’re talking about it?

Drew: Our generous read to the writers of The L Word: Generation Q, the television program on Showtime was, okay, they’re going for something where they’re trying to normalize disability by not engaging with it, which we talked about why that’s wrong, why it’s better to engage with it, and why you can still make it positive, or you can still make someone three dimensional. And actually not engaging with someone’s disability. Not engaging with someone’s transness isn’t actually some gift that you’re giving. But we were like, okay, but that’s why they’re not doing it. To do it now?

Analyssa: And in this explosive weird way… There’s no…

Riese: There’s one part where Maribel starts to say, “The doctor said,” but it’s drowned out. I think that might be later in their argument. I don’t remember. But that just, why didn’t they have us there for the doc? And Micah’s saying that she might die. Does he say that here? Saying she might die. There’s all kinds of complications for someone, ways that it’s hard on your body if you have muscular dystrophy, but the chance of dying while giving birth is not necessarily the most likely result at all. It’s a very weird thing for him to say. And also honestly, is the exact opposite of what anyone should be trying to do. It’s too dramatic. There’s lots of complications and ways that it’s going to be tough on her physically. But I could be wrong. But it’s my understanding that death during delivery is not necessarily one of them.

Drew: And if it was a concern for Micah, that should have happened earlier. It’s so absurd to not have that addressed. Micah’s anxieties earlier were about being a parent. What was Micah’s question to Max? How do you know when you need to change a diaper or whatever? The idea of this coming up now is so gross. It’s just so gross. It makes me so angry, both for Micah, for Maribel, for trans people, for disabled people. To have this happen while most of the episode is concerned with this big celebratory wedding. And then the only times we go away, I mean, we’ll come back to this scene and it gets even worse. But it’s so…

Riese: It’s what they used to do with Max.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, what, are we going to, 10 years from now, have another L World?

Riese: A reckoning.

Drew: And we’ll bring Maribel back to say, “I’m sorry.” It’s wild that the one thing that I can say for a fact was done better on Gen Q when it comes to lots of different representation issues, is bringing Max back and giving him a happy ending. Very nice. But that happened in season three, and it happened because of how they were talking about their own show on the first season, and me feeling like it was wrong, and reaching out to Daniel. They didn’t reach out to Daniel. And a lot of other people were- I’m not taking credit for it. A lot of people were involved to get Daniel back on the show. Jenni Olson being a really big one, but it wasn’t from their own place of, we want to make up for this. Their way of making up for it was the existence of Micah and…

Riese: Pierce.

Drew: …Pierce.

Riese: And I think their other way was to not have Micah surrounded by transphobes.

Drew: Sure. So we don’t need to pretend the original series, especially the later seasons weren’t brutal and brutally transphobic. But this, it’s just a different kind of transphobia. And I don’t think we need to talk about better or worse because I don’t think that’s helpful. But the way that Micah was treated for three seasons, and the way that the trans characters in general were treated for three seasons, and the way that this disabled character has been treated, and especially in this final episode, that could be the final time we see this character, is appalling. It makes me so mad. And it makes me so mad in a way where I can’t even engage with it. And I mean, I feel the same way about Tess’s storyline and we’re going to get to this, it’s such a disappointment, and in a way that makes me just… I mean, it’s altered my relationship to media in a way that the original series, because it came out years before I was out, couldn’t have in the sense that I’m so grateful for the second season of Sort Of, I’m so grateful for P-Valley and that it got renewed for a third season.

These shows that aren’t maybe bringing our community together with watch parties and all of these things in the same way, but I’m just happy to watch at home, talk to with a few friends, and just be grateful that there’s actual queer artists out there making great work. And so I’m so happy that those shows exist. And it makes me just like… The desire for media that has a wider base, that has an audience that goes beyond those identities, not that Sort Of and P-Valley aren’t watched by people who aren’t trans obviously, but just the way that The L Word has cultural cachet, the way that Euphoria is tweeted about every week, I don’t care. I don’t want to be a part of it. I wish they would stop putting trans people on those shows. I truly, I wish they would stop it because they don’t know how to write the characters.

Anyways. Do we want to go to Tess doing coke?

Riese: Yes. So Tess, she’s doing coke in the car, and she’s really doing coke.

Drew: She’s really doing it.

Riese: Really doing it. Coke, Coke, Coke. Coke. Coke,

Drew: It’s a little…

Riese: Coke.

Drew: It reminded me of Alice chugging pills. Where you’re just like, two pills would still do this. Why do you need a visual of this?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Also you can’t chug antidepressants. That’s not how it works.

Analyssa: Is this the part where she’s flashing back to different…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. That was unnecessary.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Leisha’s having more fun, happy for Leisha. Yay. We get to go to Pippa and Sophie. Thank God.

Analyssa: So yeah. Pippa and Sophie are having a conversation, they’re talking about their lives and their work. And Pippa has been offered a career retrospective by the Hammer. Congratulations.

Riese: Nice. Can’t wait to go to that.

Analyssa: And Sophie is talking about…

Riese: For a second, I was like, “I can’t wait to…” Oh.

Analyssa: I literally was like, oh my God, really? Artist of our time Pippa Pascal. And then Sophie’s talking about how she got hired on the Alice Show, which is that she did two documentaries. One went to Sundance, Alice saw it, which LOL. No. She didn’t. Not my Alice. I love her. But she’s not watching Sundance documentaries.

Drew: No. Someone on her team maybe saw it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: For sure.

Riese: Drew, her unpaid intern saw it.

Analyssa: And then called Sophie. Sophie does a really good Alice impression, which I think is fun. And then Pippa, despite not knowing what Sophie’s first two documentaries are, fine, is like, what’s your next one?

Riese: Yeah. And I think it’s showing that maybe Sophie is better with somebody who’s also artistic and working on their own independent projects that can encourage her to do the same. Whereas Finley’s just not at that place yet and including the reason that she had this really shitty family situation. So she never really was able to figure out what her passions were. She just had to find work.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re in a time of life that I feel like this was really accurate. Some people start to accelerate in their career, and their passions, and get the opportunities, and move ahead really quickly. And you’re with people, or friends with people, or whoever who just for any number of reasons, that doesn’t happen for, and it starts to feel like so unbalanced. This was like…

Riese: Very LA.

Analyssa: Yeah. Seeing her with Pippa, I was like, “Oh, I don’t feel like she’s too young, or too inexperienced, or too immature to be with someone like this. I really was like, “Oh.” Kind of when Dani and Gigi picked up together, you were like, “Oh. All right. This actually might make more sense.”

Drew: Yeah. And then they almost kissed.

Analyssa: Of all the ways that makeouts have been interrupted on this program this season though, was this not the best one?

Drew: It was funny. I do think after the cow mooed, I would just kiss again.

Riese: Yeah. I know. I was like, why aren’t you…

Drew: Why aren’t you kissing? What?

Riese: Yeah. Just laugh. And keep your faces a little close together and kind of turn and laugh, and then stick your tongue down her throat.

Drew: This is the best kind of kiss. It’s like the cow took the tension out and so if it’s not a great first kiss, you can blame the cow. Try again later in the night. Come on.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But Sophie has convinced Pippa to stay for the wedding.

Drew: Yes. Which is important.

Riese: Hot.

Drew: Dani tells Roxy that she’s beautiful and Roxy’s like, “I didn’t know that you were noticing me because you’ve been talking about Dre all night.” And then they kiss.

Riese: And then…

Drew: I had to be told by Elise who these people were, but she really didn’t really tell me who they were. She told me someone was Australian and someone’s named G Flip, and that’s about what I’ve got.

Analyssa: Really?

Riese: I think this is your moment.

Analyssa: The Australian is named G Flip.

Drew: Oh, I see. Okay. So I was confused. Oh, one’s a realtor which I got from the show.

Riese: Yeah. On Selling Sunset.

Analyssa: On Selling Sunset.

Riese: I know that we had to write, or Anya wrote it, but I had to be educated on this topic because we wrote an article about it, but I do believe that…

Drew: But I’m not doing that thing that people would do in high school where they’d be like, “Who’s Miley Cyrus? I don’t know Hannah Montana.” I promise that I’m not trying to be. I’ve obviously heard these names before, but this was a moment where I didn’t recognize them. And then I was like, “Oh, I’ve heard those names. Who are these people?” I would love to know. Educate me.

Analyssa: No, no. To be clear, I also have no engagement with these people outside of the fact that they are queer and were a big deal. This is when you watch TikTok and know everything about Fletcher and “Becky’s So Hot” and Shannon Beveridge, I just-

Drew: I think I’m better at just swiping past people when they bore me.

Analyssa: I watch all of that. Okay.

Riese: I know, because I’m always like, could this be a post? Could this be a post?

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah, I’m like, what’s going on?

Drew: Yeah. Okay, wait, so…

Analyssa: Okay, so…

Drew: Thank you.

Analyssa: G Flip is an Australian musician.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Queer.

Drew: Got it.

Analyssa: Always had a musician vibe. Chrishell Stause?

Riese: Strause?

Analyssa: Stause? I don’t know. Was on Selling Sunset, a show I have not watched.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: They started posting each other, being in each other’s Instagrams… And Chrishell was married on Selling Sunset, and part of the plot line was her divorce-

Drew: I see.

Analyssa: …from a man.

Drew: I see.

Analyssa: And everyone was like, Chrishell and G Flip are hanging out. Is this-

Drew: Yeah, completely unexpected.

Analyssa: Gay hanging out? It was a really weird crossover of people being like, why are these two people in the same room?

Drew: I see.

Riese: Yeah. And I guess Selling Sunset is super, super popular, right?

Analyssa: People really love Selling Sunset. I’ve never watched it.

Riese: I don’t want to watch a show about people who can afford houses that-

Analyssa: Living in LA and watching the rich people in LA, actually is painful to me… Instead of, if I lived where I grew up, I would be like, oh my God, look at those fancy houses-

Riese: I know, because I would be like, here I could afford a house.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. But anyway, they started being in each other’s Instagram posts, and everyone’s like, what the fuck? And they are dating, they’ve been together… It was a huge deal because both are very famous in their niche-

Drew: Right. Very different.

Analyssa: …communities, and then crossed over.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: And then Chrishell was in G Flip’s music video, that’s like how they launched-

Riese: And she came out on a Selling Sunset reunion or something like that. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Got it. And did we know they were going to be on the show?

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I did not.

Drew: Okay. Chrishell reveals that Gigi and Nat are engaged… I don’t know if there’s anything else you want to say about this little moment?

Analyssa: I want to know why they’re at this wedding?

Drew: Oh, don’t they say-

Analyssa: They never… No.

Drew: Don’t they know Roxy?

Analyssa: Roxy is Dani’s plus one.

Drew: No, it’s Roxy’s home. It’s Roxy’s family home.

Riese: Oh, but I thought they were surprised to see Roxy.

Analyssa: Oh… Is that why this is at-

Drew: Yeah, that was-

Riese: Oh, you’re right.

Drew: They said that it was Roxy’s family estate.

Riese: Yeah, it’s Roxy’s family.

Analyssa: Oh, I missed that completely.

Drew: I want to ask a question here. How many people do you know who have a family estate?

Analyssa: Zero.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: One.

Analyssa: Well, I have a friend who has a really rich uncle who has an estate that I’ve been to.

Drew: I need to meet some more people with family estates. That’s a good 2023 goal.

Riese: Yeah. If you are listening and you have a family estate and you would like to invite us to tour the grounds, you may, at any time. We would love to.

Analyssa: We would love to. We’ll do-

Drew: We’ll party.

Riese: Pool party.

Drew: Remember, we’ve been wanting to… But no one… Come on.

Riese: Yeah. Invite us to a pool party. I’ll bring Carol, I could also not bring Carol… It’s completely optional.

Analyssa: It’s up to you.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So yes, they bring the news that Gigi and Nat are engaged.

Riese: Which okay.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: So yeah, I guess Gigi… Anyway, Dani discovers she’s over it. And Roxy bought a house?

Drew: Yeah. No… Bought?

Analyssa: Yeah. Well, she doesn’t say it until… I think she says later… But she’s like, “I got a condo in Echo Park.” And I was like, of course.

Riese: Of course, you did.

Analyssa: Of course, you did. Sure.

Drew: I just feel like I know people who have money, for sure… But it’s just a different kind of money.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. You know the show, Succession?

Drew: I don’t watch it, but I do know of it, yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Well, they have an estate.

Analyssa: I actually got Succession vibes from when Tess is in the car with the bartender doing coke.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was a very Succession vibe.

Analyssa: I was like…

Riese: You know who else? Have you seen The Crown? If you’ve ever seen The Crown, they have an estate also.

Drew: I’ve actually listened to-

Riese: Or Harry and Megan?

Drew: I listened to the five-part, You’re Wrong About, about Princess Diana. That’s really all I know about the royals, is what is in those episodes.

Riese: Well, I’m sure they may have mentioned.

Drew: Yeah, I think they might have several estates.

Riese: Yeah, several estates, I believe that is the case. Dani apparently didn’t really believe that Roxy was going to come here and stay… But it seems like Roxy’s ready to do it.

Analyssa: Yeah. Roxy’s like, I’m here… And she’s here for Dani, and also to ruin Dre’s life.

Riese: Yeah. And they-

Analyssa: Which, that was the first time that I was bummed about the Dre thing. I was like, well, but that means that Dre’s going to be hurt, and I like Dre.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I also like Roxy, but why are we in this situation?

Drew: It’s so funny because there are ways to do… Honestly, the best love triangle is where I like everyone involved. There are ways to do that… Do you know what would be really fun? If Dre had been Dani’s date to the wedding and hooked up with Roxy somehow… If that had somehow happened.

Riese: Or they could have had group sex.

Drew: Group sex.

Riese: Yeah. This could have been like the Sense8 wedding.

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: God.

Riese: Everyone could have been in a big pile naked. And that was an option that existed on the table and nobody was willing to step up to the bat and be brave and do that-

Drew: When Gen Q gets canceled and everyone says, renew Gen Q, and they just give it a movie. The movie can end…

Riese: My Christmas special…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: We’ll end with that?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: All right.

Analyssa: Rose Rollins has returned to look really great on our TV screens.

Riese: Oh God, I love her so much.

Analyssa: I don’t think-

Riese: I also think-

Analyssa: …I think there was so much going on in the last episode when she arrived, that I don’t think we made enough commotion about how good she looks. `Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Honestly, this is the first episode where I feel like I really got it. I think in the original show I just had too many complicated military and then police feelings, to really-

Analyssa: Because you watched it recently, right? In the last five years?

Drew: Yeah, I watched The L Word for the first time in 2017.

Analyssa: Yeah. I watched it in 2019 for the first time.

Drew: So-

Riese: Yeah, I watched it as it aired, and it seemed completely unproblematic.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Absolutely.

Drew: But this… Yeah, I got it. She’s very hot.

Analyssa: Just…

Riese: Just really…

Analyssa: …amazing work.

Riese: Yeah, looks fantastic, and then is going to leave…

Analyssa: Okay, yeah-

Riese: And I’m realizing, I wrote an outline or whatever, but I think that I’m used to having already written the recap… So I would remember what happened in each scene beyond just my notes, which are like, Tasha Rescues Bette and Tina.

Drew: Yeah. That’s also all I have for that part, also-

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: …so, I don’t think a lot happens.

Analyssa: Yeah. She saws open the door, and Bette and Tina are both so thrilled to be released, and also thrilled to be looking upon Rose Rollins once more, that they give her these big hugs…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Bette has bubble wrap wrapped around her shoulders, which was delightful to me.

Riese: Imagine if they all actually said hi to each other… I feel like that’s something that they haven’t done in the past… Maybe that was Leisha, realistically they would-

Analyssa: They would know each other and acknowledge this.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Right. Yeah, that happens later with Shane also, where I was like, oh, we exist in real universe… Is this our script coordinator, friends, or is this the director, Leisha Haley?

Riese: Right. Hard to say-

Drew: Whoever it is, thank you.

Riese: Whoever it is, thank you so much.

Analyssa: But Tina’s like, “You should stay, obviously…” And Tasha has a little snark at Alice about, that’s how normal people greet each other after seeing each other for a long time… Which I thought was great.

Riese: Yeah. Also, when she was like, “You should stay…” Alice was shaking her head no. And I was sitting there like, yes, you better make her stay.

Analyssa: She has to stay.

Riese: I also realized, I think the other thing about the Sophie/Finley thing is that, the amount that I desire Tasha and Alice together… And I might desire Tasha better with someone else if I’d seen her with someone else, but this is what I saw. This is all I know. This is how I grew up. This is-

Drew: This is the way that we live.

Analyssa: This is the way that we… live.

Riese: This is the way that we live… I ship them so hard that that was able to overwhelm my Sinley shipping feelings.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Mm-hmm.

Drew: So, there’s nothing really to add that I didn’t, and we all didn’t just say in the last time we were-

Riese: Well, there is to add that I cannot believe you threw and broke a vial of $700 sperm.

Drew: Yes. Yeah. And it just is this thing where it makes both characters so in the wrong, about a thing where I’d rather neither of them be in the wrong…

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: This is the thing that I feel like we’ve been criticizing all season, which is, why does this feel cruel to both of them? When, this is a conversation that is important and that they, maybe not rationally, because it’s an emotional issue, but reasonably would have discussed a long time ago before it became this knockdown, drag out, packing my bags and leaving kind of fight.

Riese: Also, why are you packing your bags?

Analyssa: This would’ve been a totally normal thing that comes up, in the way that you talk about parents, for people who are living these realities… It’s so crazy to watch them go at each other about something that you’re kind of like, yeah, this anxiety makes sense and the conversation makes sense, why did we create these characters to have this artificial conversation that is a fight and is…

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. It just feels mean, it does not feel empathetic at all.

Riese: No. There is this part in, I think near the end of season six, where Max wakes up and Tom has left him, and he’s in a white T-shirt and underwear, and the full beard that they gave him for that season or whatever… And he’s so uncomfortable and he is so unhappy, and he just walks out of the tool shed where he’s living… Jenny’s famous tool shed. And standing there just realizing that Tom left. That’s the same way that I felt about this ending scene with Mari, where she’s left alone in the house, the broken sperm is on the ground, and Micah’s walking out… It was just really brutal. And it had that same vibe.

Drew: And again, I hope we’re wrong, but this is probably going to be the last episode… So it’s probably the last time we’re going to see these two characters. And I guess it’s nice that Micah’s in the car and calls Max… So I guess, once again, the only good thing to show does with Max, but it’s so wild to leave Mari like that.

Riese: And it’s wild, also, to have… It’s so cheap when they have you call, like you can summon an old character without actually having to summon the character…

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: If you’re going to invoke Max, send Micah to his house and have Max talk to him. Although, I don’t know what they could talk about because we’re not in reality anymore… The fact that this conversation is happening in this way at this time is just simply not true.

Drew: I just wish that they hadn’t been in this episode-

Riese: Yeah, me too.

Drew: Cut these scenes.

Riese: Yeah. And with engagement in episode eight-

Drew: Yeah, Carrie and Misty aren’t in this episode, so-

Analyssa: This is worse, this feels worse-

Drew: Why are they here? What is this? What is the point of this? Don’t have them in this episode… You don’t have enough time to get into any of these things you’re bringing up, so don’t have them in this episode. We would complain about that too, we’d be like, why aren’t these characters in the episode? But it’s better than this. And then you could have had more time to do some fun stuff at the wedding.

Riese: Yeah. Honestly, they didn’t need to put Tess in this episode either.

Analyssa: Or Hendrix.

Riese: Or Hendrix, yeah. So, back at the wedding, Shane is kind of eyeing Tess, seems to notice that Tess is under the influence of perhaps some drugs or alcohol.

Drew: But then the wedding planner pulls her away, and it doesn’t really feel like Shane’s character… Because, I don’t know. I just feel like Shane is the person who has character traits, and I feel like some of those traits would-

Analyssa: That’s a hot take.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Some of those traits would include not… Even if she and Tess are in a bad space, if she thinks that Tess has relapsed, not going off with this wedding planner, who she already had sex with… She would be like, no, I need to deal with this. That felt really weird on Shane’s part too.

Riese: Yeah, when she said it, because you’re always auto-filling the rest of the scene in your head… I was like, oh, Shane’s going to be like, absolutely not. No-

Analyssa: I did too, I thought she was going to be like, yeah, wait for me, I have something that I have to take care of first-

Riese: Right, yeah.

Analyssa: …Shane has always been unfailingly loyal. That is one thing-

Riese: And concerned about everybody’s general wellbeing.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: And I just was shocked to see her be… Especially without a line that’s like, she’s going through something, but we are broken up, so I guess it’s not my place… I would’ve been like, okay, kind of. Never addressed.

Riese: They had her do that so that Tess could walk in on them. But I think that they shouldn’t have had Shane notice Tess being drunk.

Drew: No. We’ve talked about this before but, weirdly enough, Gen Q has also really failed Shane. I don’t have as much of a political issue with that, but it’s wild how, by far, of the returning characters… Tina’s had more of an arc. This is not who Shane was in the original series. Shane was an interesting person in the original series, with a lot of qualities, and it feels like Gen Q was written by people, some of whom hadn’t even seen the original series.

Riese: Right, which we now know is possible-

Analyssa: It’s really possible, I was just about say. I wish Shane had more traits to write to other than sex. I was like, have you watched the television program?

Riese: She has so many-

Analyssa: What are you talking about?

Riese: They set up a lot of really interesting stuff with Shane.

Analyssa: She was arguably, one of the most-

Riese: She has more family history than Tina.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: …complex characters in the original, she’s got so much background.

Drew: She was working as a rent boy… She has such a past.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Wild.

Analyssa: So-

Riese: Tasha and Alice?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes. Tasha and Alice.

Riese: Tasha and Alice have a fight, which is, they start to fight about why they broke up… Tasha didn’t like Alice being famous, or didn’t want to be her plus one… But then it shifts, and it comes out… And the way that Tasha says it is a little bit weird, but whatever. That she felt like Alice was still in love with Dana and that she talked about her so much that she felt like she knew her in a way.

Analyssa: In a way.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And Alice starts freaking out.

Riese: Twinkle twinkle… And I was like, even though the fact that there were things about the fight that I didn’t care for, I was pleased at how it was resolved.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wait, for someone who does not have an encyclopedic knowledge of The L Word, aka me…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: What seasons were Tasha and Alice together?

Riese: They met mid-season four, and then they were together for most of season five… They broke up for two episodes and got back together, and then they were together for season six, but got involved with this other person too, Jamie-

Analyssa: I remember…

Riese: …And it this weird love triangle thing.

Analyssa: I do remember that.

Riese: But at the end, Tasha came back to Alice.

Drew: Tasha gets introduced in my favorite episode of the show, right? Luck Be a Lady?

Riese: That’s her second episode.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Yeah. That’s her second episode.

Analyssa: Okay. Thank you.

Riese: They meet at the bar after Jenny and Alice have the fight about Monet, and stealing people’s ideas, and Alice is wearing the hat and the vest.

Analyssa: That scene is-

Drew: What a great… I don’t want to romanticize the original series, I’m aware that there are problems, but the difference of how I feel about a show that had problems made from 2004 to 2009 is just different than how I feel about a show being made now. So, I have a lot of love for the original series, and I won’t apologize for it.

Analyssa: That scene circulates on my TikTok every once in a while, and I watch it in full every single time. The Monet argument-

Riese: Yeah, it’s good.

Analyssa: It’s so good.

Riese: It’s perfect.

Drew: Didn’t we get a moment where a wedding planner tells Shane that she’s married, but that she’s open? We also learned that she’s from Glendale, but whatever. And Shane is like, “Oh, and that works for you?”

Riese: But I feel like this was another one of those things where I was like, finally addressing this issue-

Drew: Sure-

Riese: But it felt like it was something added on in this episode to make up for the sins of many, I don’t know, seasons past.

Drew: Right. And then they start kissing again and then Tess sees. And then the wedding starts? Tina’s in a red velvet suit and Bette’s in a black suit, and then it’s interrupted because Tess is screaming at Shane in the middle of the wedding, runs into the cake, ruins the cake…

Riese: I talked to Gretchen earlier, and I was like, I didn’t want to tell her anything about the episode, but I was like, “Yeah, the Tess stuff is really bad.” And she was like, “What, does she get wasted and fall into the cake?” And I told her ahead… I was like, “I’m not going to tell you anything, I want you to watch it blind. I’m not giving you any spoils.” And I was like-

Analyssa: Well.

Riese: “She did. She did actually get drunk and fall into the cake.” So I have to-

Drew: There’s one moment that I liked, which is Pippa saying to Sophie, “This particular friend group is full of drama…” And there was one moment that bothered me even more, because after having even just a brief introduction from Elise, who Chrishell and G Flip are… When Tess yells, “Any ladies out there want to be Shane’s next conquest?” And they both raised their hands… I’m like, oh, we’re doing a fun little joke with these famous white queers… And it just was like, oh, right, you care about Fletcher, you care about Chrishell and G Flip, you don’t care about…

Analyssa: Well, I’m-

Riese: I did laugh.

Analyssa: I also did laugh at that joke, but the rest of the stuff around it, is so… Again, just cruel to Tess. The whole thing is written for comedy, the wedding planner has all these asides of like, well, that’s just perfect, that’s how my day is going… It’s all side-showy. Everyone is pointing and laughing at Tess. It’s literally-

Drew: Honestly, this is what reminded me of the Max baby shower.

Analyssa: …it’s like schoolyard bullying. I just am inviting anyone to remember that this is a television show, where people are made up. So even to say, relapses happen… Okay, fine. Relapses happen and you can really spiral, all the coke that she uses… Okay, sure. Relapses happen and you make a scene… Okay, but why do I have to watch that, and why did you have to write that? Why are you so compelled? People who are alcoholics or not alcoholics know that the possibility of relapse exists… Don’t need to show it to them. So then you’re just showing it to who? People who have not experienced it before? I guarantee you they’ve seen this on TV before.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Especially done this poorly and cheaply.

Analyssa: There is no need… It just made me so uncomfortable. The whole thing is so uncomfortable. And the end scene of Tess leaving, which we’ll get to, I’m sure. Also, I didn’t understand what they want me to feel…

Drew: I’m going to say something that I might get in trouble for, but I’m going to even let Lauren keep it in, I think… Which is that, I think that trans actors can play cis. I think a lot of trans actors… I talked to someone who watched the entire first season of Euphoria and did not know that Hunter Schafer was trans. Which is wild, because it’s pretty explicitly stated… But did not catch that.

Riese: Yeah. It is pretty big-

Drew: Yeah. Cis people do not know, so I’m not saying this from a place of I don’t think that trans actors should get to play parts that are cis, whatever… But, as a trans audience member, Jamie Clayton is trans. Not because I know who Jamie Clayton is, and I know that she’s trans… I can tell that she’s trans. I can usually tell that people are trans. And her voice is a trans woman’s voice. It’s feminine… I don’t say that with negative connotations. It’s a more cis passing voice than mine is. I don’t think there’s value in being cis passing.

Riese: Right.

Drew: So whether or not Tess is trans, which obviously she’s not, we’ve covered this many times. I’m watching that happen to a trans person-

Riese: Also, we know because we are involved in the macro world around the show… But people, when I talk to them about the show, they’ll say Tess is a trans character. They have no idea that she’s not supposed to be. So I promise you, probably half the people watching this show do think that it’s a trans character.

Drew: Right. So, I don’t think we need to pretend, even trans women who look like Jamie Clayton, aren’t still clockable in some ways, and that it’s just so… it’s so brutal.

Analyssa: It’s just humiliation in such a needless way-

Riese: Yeah, I don’t think they needed it.

Analyssa: …It’s such a pile on. It feels unnecessary.

Riese: I don’t think we needed her in the episode at all.

Drew: No.

Riese: I don’t know, bring back Molly or something… Everyone else is coming back. Shane didn’t need that.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: So Finley hustles Tess out of the venue, finally… Shane tries and it doesn’t really work, and Finley finally gets Tess outside, and then this man who has driven off the set of Succession, pulls up, and is like, “Do you want to get in my car?”

Drew: Who is he? Who is this man?

Analyssa: No, no. And Tess says she doesn’t want to be sober, she just wants to have fun with her friends… Who are her friends? We don’t know what she’s talking about. And is like, “Finley, you have to let me go.” And I was like, what am I supposed to be believing here?-

Riese: For either of them, I don’t really know what’s going on or what the point of this is.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So that whole plot, throw it in the garbage to me. So, Tess leaving and demolishing the cake, an infuriating choice. But then, we do get what I think is delightful. Alice, Tina, Shane, and Bette have reassembled the cake into a mound, and put the little topper on it. And this whole shot of them eyeballing the cake and moving around the cake and talking about it, I was like, amazing.

Riese: Yeah. And with all their heads tilted.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: It reminded me of how little of that type of comedy we get to see on this show, actually.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: But it was one of those cases of this episode where, yeah, it’s really fun, it also makes the contrast even more clear… If Bette and Tina were yelling at Shane about being selfish, then I’d be like, okay, this show is so dramatic… Oh my God. But having this really sweet moment of comedy where we get some references to Alice dating the vampire… That was on my Gen Q wishlist before the show started, that we bring back the vampire.

Riese: Honestly, it’s slander of the vampire, because they were talking about these things as mistakes-

Drew: Yeah, the vampire was great. That was the hottest sex scene in L Word history.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re like, let me list off the biggest, most worst things I’ve done to other people… And Alice’s was not, outed Daryl Brewer… As was a plot line really recently. They’re like, “You dated that vampire.”

Riese: Right. I don’t know… Dana-

Analyssa: Stalking Dana.

Drew: Stalking Dana.

Riese: Stalking Dana, and also Tina saying, “Leaving Bette for Carrie.” That’s-

Drew: That’s not bad, that was good.

Riese: Here’s what’s bad, Henry… Daddyof2

Analyssa: DaddyOf2

Drew: Daddyof2. Yeah. But Bette says, Bette slept with Candace in jail. They bring that a ton up-

Riese: Again, another hot scene.

Drew: A hot scene. But this season hates sex.

Riese: They do. Bette could have said, I slept with my intern Nadia, for example.

Drew: Yeah. And now I’m having to reflect on that because my daughter has had an affair with her professor.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Wait, what was Shane’s bad thing? Is that when they-

Analyssa: Left Carmen.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was bad.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That one, yeah. Pretty much, I have no argument with that.

Riese: Right. Then we have the ceremony.

Analyssa: So yeah, then it’s time for the vows from Tina-

Riese: Ilene Chaiken.

Analyssa: They walk down the aisle, they do their vows, Alice has gotten ordained for it, and there are cuts to the audience, and Ilene Chaiken is there in her billowiest white top-

Riese: Just the clothes she wore to set that day, to say hi, when you know that someone was like, oh my god, Ilene be in the scene.

Analyssa: You have to come to the Tina and Bette wedding. And if we can get her on camera, we will. Yeah, absolutely.

Drew: I think that Gen Q should have gone the And Just Like That… route. And Just Like That… has-

Riese: Killed Mr. Big on a Peloton?

Drew: …has new characters, but it is very much like, “No, we’re just continuing this story.” Because ultimately, that’s what this show has done, right? I mean, even though Bette and Tina were gone most of the season, they still had a big hold on it, right? And when they were gone, it was to give Alice and Shane their moments. It’s what they do best. Sophie could have been at work for Alice. The way that the connections existed could have existed.

Riese: Yeah. Micah could have dated Alice.

Drew: Yeah, sure, whatever. They should have just done that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Because then right after, we have the vows and it’s very sweet and we get this moment. Then Alice apologizes to Tasha and Tasha’s like, “You’ve never said sorry before,” and they make up and Alice asks Tasha to dance and it’s great. It’s so-

Riese: Yeah. I also cried. I thought what she said was really good, where she was like, “I tried to be so busy to not think about Dana.” It was like wow, really vulnerable, and then they were going to go dance and I was so excited.

Drew: So Bette and Tina are dancing, Shane and Angie chat, and then Angie’s like, “I’m going to go call Bella.”

Riese: Yeah. Also, Shane asked Angie to dance and she rejects Shane.

Drew: Yeah, that’s pretty brutal.

Riese: And Shane’s dying to dance with somebody.

Analyssa: Can someone dance with me, please? And then-

Riese: Dani can’t believe that Roxy’s staying.

Analyssa: Oh, yeah. Dani’s like, “Is it a month-to-month lease?” And that’s when Roxy’s like, “I bought it. I own it. It’s mine.” And I was like, “Right, Dani’s really wealthy so Dani’s friends are really wealthy.”

Riese: Right, yeah. Maybe Chrishel sold her that house.

Drew: Well, that probably makes sense.

Analyssa: Yeah, maybe that’s why they know each other. And then Finley comes over to Shane.

Riese: This was so weird.

Analyssa: And having seen Tess relapse, I think is the point, is like there’s-

Riese: I have no idea.

Analyssa: …more sides to this story than I thought there were. So now I’m sorry that I yelled at you.

Riese: Yeah, because this also felt like a thing where I was like, “Good, they’re acknowledging that Finley yelling at Shane was stupid.” But that has nothing to do with Tess going through a lot of stuff. It was stupid regardless.

Analyssa: To begin with.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. And then Shane asks Finley to dance.

Riese: Yeah. Shane just really wants… And Finley’s like, “Okay.” And then Shane says, “Hi, Tasha.” Thank you for replicating real world actions.

Analyssa: And shoots Alice some eyes as she says, she’s like, “Mm-hmm.”

Riese: And they’re dancing, it’s so cute.

Drew: They’re dancing. It’s very cute.

Riese: I’m so happy for them.

Drew: And then Tina asks Bette to leave to go to their room and the scooter or the golf cart doesn’t work because-

Riese: Pippa and Sophie-

Drew: …Pippa and Sophie-

Riese: …took it to the cow field.

Drew: Which is fun.

Analyssa: They’re going to walk.

Drew: But they’re going to walk.

Analyssa: As wives, they say.

Riese: Wives and wives going down a long path of love.

Drew: And so we get a little end montage with some fun things. One actual fun thing is Pippa and Sophie make out, which I love that, happy sendoff to these characters. Wonderful. And this is a good excuse to just say this, that I didn’t realize this because I talk to you two and I talk to my friends who all have good taste, but there’s so many… I ended up on Gen Q TikTok, and people hate Sophie.

Analyssa: Really?

Drew: And it just feels like racism to me.

Analyssa: Oh, that 100%.

Riese: Oh, yeah. I mean, I haven’t seen it, but I just know because someone told us about it in our comments.

Analyssa: That has… There’s no other reason.

Drew: Yeah, it’s just so overt. But I’m so happy that Sophie gets this ending with Pippa. It’s great, makes me really happy.

Analyssa: Sophie’s like, “We could get a room,” and I was like, yes, give me five more minutes and they go get a room, please.

Drew: And it’s just them fucking.

Analyssa: Just getting edged by them, but that’s fine.

Riese: Right. But I don’t know. I like Pippa kind of bossing her around.

Analyssa: Yeah, big time.

Riese: Being like that this is the pace and this is what we’re doing.

Drew: Yeah, it’s good. Then Dani and Roxy are kissing and Dre walks up, which again, it’s just like-

Riese: What?

Drew: …this obviously isn’t as bad as what happens with Micah or what happens with Tess, but it still is like, “Okay, so we have this other trans character and it’s like, we’re ending with them being rejected.” It also is the kind of ending that there’s just, there are ways to end a season where you end it. The way you leave stories open-ended doesn’t feel so cliffhangery when you might not get another season. There are shows that have done it really well where yeah, you can tell that they should have had more time and there are things that are left unresolved, but it mostly feels coherent where this is what a weird way to end with this character who we barely even know at this point. Just don’t have Dre come back. If you get another season, it can be some conflict-

Analyssa: That’s a question.

Drew: …but just don’t have Dre come back if-

Riese: I’m happy for Carmen that they got paid for another episode.

Drew: True. Yeah.

Riese: But yeah, because also the fact that Dani left that voicemail is already a cliffhanger enough. We know Dre’s going to listen to it, we don’t know how they’re going to feel about it, but there’s some implication that they expect or Dre to pursue it some way.

Drew: Or Dre calling even, it’d be like, “Oh, shit, Dre’s calling.”

Riese: Yeah, Dre’s calling. Yeah.

Drew: Fine. That’s it.

Riese: Yeah. It could’ve even shown Dre calling so that Carmen had gotten paid for the episode.

Analyssa: So that Carmen still… Yeah.

Drew: And then the last one, which is so atrocious, which is, well, not the last one, but the next thing which is Finley gets a call from the police about Tess.

Analyssa: Perfect.

Drew: Which could be anything.

Analyssa: Anything.

Drew: That could be a death, right?

Riese: It could be death, it could be DUI, it could be arrest for cocaine possession, it could be car accident, it could be kitten in a tree.

Analyssa: I’ll tell you what it’s probably not, something fun or good.

Drew: Sure. I’m just saying-

Riese: It’s not going to be death, but…

Drew: But again, this could be the last episode, so we are ending with the possibility that she died. And we finally got to talk to the cops. They’ve been wanting to do it all season.

Riese: I know. They’re like, “We’ve got one more opportunity.” Meanwhile, I was looking at the time code being like, wait, they’re not going to have Bella walk into the wedding?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: So then we end with Bette and Tina-

Analyssa: No.

Drew: … walking off into the proverbial sunset. And again, that’s what they wanted to do and they did it right, so Gen Q, really, the main error it made up for was Ilene Chaiken’s bonkers sixth season that turned her lesbian romance into a murder show for some reason. And they didn’t really do it because I have a lot more affection for Jenny than I do for Bette and Tina as a couple.

Riese: I have so much affection for Jenny that twisted, twisted weirdo.

Analyssa: Yeah. Sick, sick freak.

Riese: That sick gorgeous woman.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: And that’s the episode and that’s the season. And that might be The L Word.

Riese: Except for the Christmas special.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Except for the Christmas special.

Riese: So I loved all of the scenes that were shot at the wedding that didn’t involve Tess. And I think I could easily come up with a few things they could have added to that package for the episode that would not have been what instead was…

Analyssa: Yeah, I was really surprised. The Tess one was the big one, of that this really did not have a vibe of potential series finale. It’s just a surprising choice, not even for The L Word: Gen Q specifically, but just in the era of most shows get three seasons if they’re lucky and that’s like it.

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: So you would think that any show would be like, “Okay, how do we land enough planes that it feels like a total complete thing, and leave enough kind of questions that if we came back, it would be fun and interesting and there’s still stuff to explore?” And I feel like the Tess thing, was especially jarring where I was like, “That actually is a question that would need an answer.” So if this-

Riese: And also, again, her driving off that guy was already a cliffhanger. They didn’t need the whole fucking story. But if they were going to do it, that could’ve ended right there.

Drew: Also, there are ways to have cliffhanger endings that the, I know a lot of people hate the ending of The Sopranos, but that pointedly has… There are ways to have cliffhangers. I mean, I’m so happy it got a season three, but the end of season two of Sort Of, I’m not going to spoil it if you’re behind because you should really catch it up and watch the show, it’s incredible, it ends with a really huge cliffhanger. But if the show had been canceled, it would’ve been a cliffhanger in a open-ended story, that there feels like a closure of an architecture, there’s that word again. And there are ways to do that. And the open-ended things here don’t. The same way that Dre hadn’t shown up, but there had just been the specter of Dre, then you still have this feeling of, what is Dani going to choose in her life? But the way that it’s shot is end of an episode cliffhangers, not end of season even cliffhangers.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: They’re also though historically really bad at cliffhangers, not just at the execution of the cliffhanger, but then what happens next. The cliffhanger with Sophie at the airport and then bring us back to her wedding, and with not a single, no idea what happened after that. Why did you do that? And to have Carrie have a heart attack and Finley be in in the next episode open, just sitting on couch-

Analyssa: Just completely… Yeah.

Riese: …and she’s in the next one. You guys, like someone, I mean, again-

Analyssa: And then in the Gigi car crash too, same thing.

Riese: Yeah, car crash. These sort of like, they love to put someone on a cliff and then drive up to the cliff in a really nice sports car and be like, “Hey, get in, let’s go back down.” No one ever jumps.

Analyssa: Or falls.

Drew: I mean, it’s partially because Marja had no TV experience, that she does not understand how TV works. I mean, and it’s something we’ve talked about in the sense that it’s like, I mean, I certainly don’t begrudge her taking the job, anyone would take the job, but-

Riese: Right. I too have no experience but would’ve happily taken the job.

Drew: Yes. But I mean, it is just this thing where-

Riese: Although now, I actually don’t know if I would do that because after seeing this, I’m like, I don’t know.

Drew: I mean, it’s just something that’s lost with how TV is made now, and it’s a real shame to not have. Not that, I mean, there are some ways that people getting opportunities who wouldn’t otherwise get opportunities who don’t have years of working in writers’ rooms, that gives opportunities to new people. And that’s great. But there’s the flip side of it, which is when someone truly has not worked on a TV show before, there’s going to be a real steep learning curve. And it’d be hard for anybody. So it’s why I think a lot of times new showrunners have a co-showrunner. I mean, I think about someone like Rachel Bloom who was… actually, she wasn’t new to TV, she’d written on Robot Chicken, but-

Analyssa: But that type of TV especially.

Drew: Yeah. And so she was paired with Aline Brosh McKenna, or going back to Girls, like Lena Dunham and Judd Apatow and whatever, and these things that, there is value in having that sort of mentor, mentee, co-showrunnership. And even though it’s clear that Ilene Chaiken handpicked Marja-Lewis Ryan, Ilene Chaiken wasn’t running the show.

Analyssa: Right, or in the room. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, imagine if, sure, I mean, Marja-Lewis Ryan wouldn’t have been my person who’d written one gay screenplay choice, but imagine if a younger queer person who’d written one gay screenplay was paired with Angela Robinson or someone who was just a real legend of the industry who worked on the original show, and there could have been so much… We wouldn’t have had to witness someone basically go to film school, go to the TV version of film school. And it’s so frustrating because there’s so many people who are so talented who just don’t get opportunities. So it’s a real bummer. Remember last year when I said that I wasn’t going to come back?

Riese: Yeah. I mean I guess, there’s some good things that were set up, like Tasha and Alice, Bella and Angie, but they also didn’t set up anything for Shane really.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Finley doesn’t really have anything that she’s looking toward.

Riese: Besides maybe going to school. And honestly, she’s not living in a sublet where she has to clap to make roaches go away, I don’t think.

Analyssa: No.

Riese: Also, if you’re going to… Whatever. At least we didn’t have to go to her apartment. That was really going to be painful for me to experience.

Drew: Yeah. I know.

Analyssa: They brought in some storylines in ways that were delightful and look like they can arrow out if the show comes back, and if not, I get to live happily with the idea that Sophie and Pippa have a wonderful romance and they live together as long as they want to. But I’m just stuck on the Tess thing because it feels like they have an answer in mind of what happens. And if the show doesn’t come back, you will never know.

Riese: I don’t know if they do, because remember when season six ended and everyone was like, “Wait, so who killed Jenny?” And Ilene was like, “Oh, I don’t know, I didn’t write it. I didn’t know when I wrote…” And I’m like, even if you don’t reveal it, you have to know, as the writer.

Analyssa: You have an idea.

Riese: You have to know. You can’t write to an unknown. What? That’s like writing 101. So I don’t think they know.

Analyssa: Right. So-

Riese: Because also the way that, I don’t even get this police, why did she say it was Tess calling? Tess made Finley her emergency contact already? I don’t know.

Drew: Do police officers take a cellphone from someone and call the most recent called number? Because that does not seem like something a cop would do.

Riese: No, it doesn’t.

Drew: Unless she’s dead. Unless because-

Riese: Oh.

Drew: …if she’s in-

Analyssa: And they can’t ask her anything.

Drew: …if she’s in jail, then eventually she would get to make a call. It would be from an unknown number, it wouldn’t be from… I mean, unless they gave her cellphone back. I don’t, but…

Riese: Again-

Drew: What?

Riese: …Marja would be committing a hate crime on the community and herself if she actually killed Tess.

Analyssa: That would be wild. Although, much like the Sophie thing, there are a lot of Tess despisers out there, which also feels very nasty.

Drew: Yeah, which some of it’s transphobia and some of it’s racism for those two characters. And some of it’s how they’ve been written and how they’ve been treated and how they’re treated by Marja, who has her own biases.

Riese: Right. Well, I also think some of these characters have, like Sophie has flaws.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And I think that’s what weird, is people, they want to… In order to a character, you have to all their choices or behaviors. No, Jenny, for example, my all-time best friend, Jenny Schecter, she was an unhinged mess. But I love her and I connected to her in a certain way, in a good and bad.

Drew: The internet’s fave.

Analyssa: That’s how I feel about Alice personally. Alice is such a mess-

Riese: Right, Alice is my problematic fave.

Analyssa: …and yeah, so problematic and has done so much, honestly-

Riese: Harm.

Analyssa: …bad stuff in her life. And still, I watch her and I’m like, “I understand you. I care for you.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Because we also are all flawed.

Drew: It’s true.

Analyssa: Not me, though.

Drew: I mean, of the new people who the internet loves, Dani was a Sackler, question mark? Gigi worked in real estate. They’re not perfect.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Gigi works in real estate?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Gigi came to Alice and Nat’s home and-

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: …hammered a nail into their front door. That is scary behavior. And still, I was like, I love her. I’d die for her.

Riese: They need her on the show. They really do.

Drew: Well, you know what I hope? I’m putting all of my energy and prayer into A League of Their Own.

Riese: A League of Their Own.

Drew: I have nothing left for season four of Gen Q, sorry to the cast and crew, some of whom I do deeply love. But…

Riese: What about the Christmas special?

Drew: I mean, if they want to do a wrap-up movie, I would love that.

Riese: Okay. Thank you.

Drew: Especially if you got to write it.

Riese: Thank you so much. I appreciate your support.

Drew: But I just want A League of Their Own to come back. Talk about a reboot that’s so good. I mean, I know it’s a different kind of reboot, but oh, what a great show A League of Their Own is.

Riese: So good. Yeah. In part made by another former L Word person, Jamie Babbit, the director.

Analyssa: Oh, fun.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I mean, this is the thing, this is what I would love to see out of The L Word: Gen Q reboot that potentially is not moving forward, is more awareness of these queer people who worked on the show to then go… I would love to see Micah and Maribel and Sophie, all those people in new things now. And I will follow most of them to whatever they do next.

Riese: Including Christmas.

Analyssa: Including obviously first the Christmas special. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, I mean, it’ll be-

Riese: Yeah, agreed. A hard agree on that.

Analyssa: And watching, I don’t know, seeing that Leisha and Kate directed episodes, I wonder if there’s a shift for them into directing more. Or like we said when Roxy first showed up, seeing someone be in these smaller queer roles a few years before they’re going to get some-

Riese: Yeah, I think she’s going to be big. Yeah.

Analyssa: That is always a really cool feeling, and I think is one of the best things to come out of the franchise.

Drew: I just hope that the industry has spots for…

Analyssa: Definitely.

Drew: I mean, I just look at Pose and obviously, I mean, I saw Billy Porter on Broadway years ago and he’s such an incredible talent and I’m so glad that it took being in a cast filled with trans women of color for him to be the one with privilege and to be able to make a career out of a part. And not that, I mean, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez has had stuff, but he’s definitely the person who post-Pose has had a real career bump and fame bump. And I just hope that it’s not just Jacqueline Toboni, I hope. And she’s great, I really hope that she is in a bunch of stuff, but I just, I hope there are parts for Leo and parts for Jillian and parts for Daniel and so many other people in the cast who are great.

Riese: Yeah. You know Ari was in a Hallmark movie of some kind where she was a lesbian doctor.

Analyssa: I did see the commercials for that. I should watch that.

Riese: I saw a clip of that on TikTok and I thought, “What?” I want to see Rosanny on a Crazy Ex-Girlfriend reboot.

Drew: I really want to see Rosanny in something.

Riese: I want to see her singing more. I love her.

Drew: She’s definitely been one of the real joys of watching The L Word, from the beginning, from watching Gen Q, I mean.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: You guys did so well switching back to their real names. I got so… My brain had been in character mode so much that I was like, “Ah, what?”

Riese: Yeah. You remember once upon a time, we were in that theater at the LGBT Center meeting them for the first time before the To L and Back: Generation Q Edition podcast.

Analyssa: It’s so wild.

Drew: I’m going to throw something out, which is, regardless of whether Gen Q improved over its three seasons, I know that I improved and I feel like you both have improved. And I think we’ve all been on a… Since that night, I think we’ve all come so far as people-

Riese: I mean, that is true.

Drew: …as queers, as sisterhood is powerful. I really just think that we’ve really grown a lot and I’m really proud of us.

Riese: Yeah, we really have. Me too. That week was so messy.

Analyssa: That week was incredibly messy.

Riese: There were so many parties. So many parties. Every day, I was so profoundly hungover, it was like my insides are being scraped out with a spork from Kentucky Fried Chicken that had been sitting in my drawer since 1975.

Drew: That was specific. Yeah. So I’m like, hey, let’s celebrate that.

Riese: Yeah, let’s celebrate that.

Analyssa: Let’s celebrate that, for us as lesbians.

Riese: For us as lesbians, growth, and for us as lesbians, sisterhood is powerful. And I think that-

Drew: That is it.

Riese: That’s it.

Analyssa: That’s what matters.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L And Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter, @tolandback, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented, Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by Jax Co. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram, @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere, @Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram, @Analocaa with two As, and on Twitter, @Analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @Autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle, and of course, the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this up, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Drew: Three, two, one — qualifiers.

Riese: Quince meat! You can see a quincemeat twinkle in my eye.

Drew: Can I ask something that I’ve been meaning to Google?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Is quincemeat actually a thing?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: No.

Drew: Okay, I didn’t think so. I didn’t think so.

Analyssa: Riese made that up this season!

Drew: I know. Yeah, I thought it was like a mincemeat pie, and you just started saying quince meat. I guess there was one part of me that thought that for the whole time and then was like, “Wait, what if it’s actually a real thing and I have been missing it?”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Great. Glad we’re on the same page. What did you say, Ana?

Riese: Yeah, it’s-

Analyssa: I didn’t say anything because I was laughing so hard at Riese. But my word was going to be quintuplets because it’s the longest Q word I could think of, and also, because I would love to see Rosanny Zayas play quintuplets for no reason.

Drew: Oh, fun.

Analyssa: I don’t know, like an Orphan Black kind of situation.

Drew: Like identical. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I think she could do it.

Analyssa: Five different roles.

Drew: I said qualifiers because when I say that I love The L Word and it holds a special place in my heart, I have to always have some qualifiers.

Riese: Oh wow, that’s good.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: That’s amazing. Well, thanks, you guys. Thanks so much for listening. If you love us a lot, we’ll make a link to our Autostraddle donor box and you can feel free to give us some money.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And thanks for coming along.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I don’t know why you feel like I need to whisper now.

Drew: I feel, it’s so annoying because the show’s so annoying but now I feel emotional that it’s over.

Analyssa: As soon as it ends, I’m like, “Please, no.” I’m like in a situationship with The L Word.

Riese: Yeah, no, I mean, I want it to come back, but I do, it’s hard for me to separate that from-

Drew: No. Some of it-

Riese: …my business interests in it.

Drew: Yeah, I also, I also.

Analyssa: For sure. I mean, same. We all have a vested interest in this show existing.

Riese: Yeah. We’re part of the industry.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: You know what I mean? It’s like, The L Word is a war, we manufacture bombs.

Drew: Wow. Geez. That is an apt metaphor.

Riese: I did that one for you because I know how you love the military.

Drew: Thanks for that. And on that note.

To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 309: When a Fire Starts to Burn

A strong breeze has blown into Los Angeles this week and with it, the return of Bette and Tina! Coincidentally, it also brought the return of our enjoyment of this television program. This episode was delightful! It’s nearly the end of the season so many chickens must come home to roost!

Angie’s moms are back to get her out of bed and performing at her creative writing class reading and discover the relationship that has her sulking unshowered in bed. Shane and Tess are fighting over the second bar, but in a new and more final way. Finley is helping Carrie recover from her (obnoxious, to us) heart attack. And of course, Alice’s movie meltdown has gotten her cancelled again, with one of our season-long prayers answered as a result!! (I never know if I’m spoiling an episode in this post, so I WON’T.)

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SHOW NOTES

+ Drew’s lesbian movie index goes up today! Check it out!
+ If you care, here’s more on James Corden beefing with the Balthazar guy
+ Riese’s recap for 309

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Group: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: Wow. We did it great.

Riese: Did we?

Drew: The episode is better. We’re thriving.

Riese: I got distracted.

Analyssa: I thought it was kind of impressive that you got distracted during that.

Riese: Really? But I was still trying.

Analyssa: While you did it, I was like, “Wow, that was ballsy. I wouldn’t have done that.”

Drew: Yeah. Well, here we are with another episode of The L Word: Generation Q. It was validating to see that our opinions last week were not … We were not alone. Seems like all of you…

Riese: A lot of people really liked it.

Drew: Did they? I didn’t—

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, I guess I didn’t—

Riese: On the recap, a lot of people really liked it, and I was surprised because this was when I really lost it, was last week.

Analyssa: I read some of the comments on your recaps. There’s always way too many for me to keep up with, but also on our podcast episode post all the comments were saying that we were right, so you could hang out in there sometimes. Yeah.

Drew: That’s all I pay attention to.

Analyssa: But I was surprised to see that in your recap.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, no one said I was wrong. For their personal enjoyment, they liked it, which surprised me.

Drew: Sure. And I love that.

Riese: But also I think it might just be like if you’re a big fan of Finley, obviously you’d be a big fan of that episode.

Drew: This is episode 309, Quiet Before the Storm, and it is written by Melody Derloshon, who we’ve talked about many times. And it’s directed by Kate Moennig, who I think we know.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: We know Kate.

Riese: We’ve heard of Kate. Yeah. This is her first directing job.

Analyssa: That’s fun. Cool.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I love when a cast member gets to direct an episode.

Riese: And I think Leisha Hailey is directing the finale,

Analyssa: Oh, my God. That’s so exciting.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Fun.

Analyssa: I love that.

Drew: I would love post-Gen Q if Leisha Haley directed movies. I can see her filling like a Clea DuVall kind of gap.

Analyssa: My reference point was going to be like, oh, kind of like Carrie Brownstein did music, and then now is directing. The same kind of thing with Leisha Haley.

Drew: Yeah. I was like, why do Carrie Brownstein and Leisha Haley have a connection? And I realized that it’s actually just me in my own little world because I wrote a pilot with a character based on Carrie Brownstein, and was like, “Leisha Haley would be perfect for this.”

Analyssa: That’s why they’re connected. Through your pilot.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Well, I think that Kate did a great job.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree.

Drew: This was a solid episode.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: This episode was a relief to me.

Drew: I think I only shouted at the TV in frustration three or four times.

Analyssa: This felt like a normal amount of being like urgh with a plotline.

Riese: Yeah. It felt like the original series where there’s stuff where I’m like ugh but in general, I’m like, this follows the rules of an episode of television.

Analyssa: Everything we’ve agreed upon entering this relationship is intact.

Riese: Yes, it is being fulfilled. Yeah.

Drew: Also, a lot of the stuff that annoyed me, not all of it, but there were certain things that annoyed me but felt true to the characters. Right? Where I was like, “This sucks.” But also, “Tina would fucking do this.”

Analyssa: Right. We’ve talked about that in some episodes, where it’s the difference between being annoyed with the script versus just being annoyed with the characters that you’re watching. It’s so much more pleasant to be annoyed with the characters that you’re watching, and not remember that there’s a script behind them.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Should we get into it?

Riese: Yeah. The beginning of the episode did in fact… Was the most upsetting part of the episode for me. I just, “What the fuck?”

Drew: Okay. One thing I want to say before we get into that is that the previously on—

Analyssa: I was going to bring this up too.

Drew: It included the part where Alice in the theater goes, “He dies at the end.” And since a reminder, they went to go see the 1960 Little Shop of Horrors I was like, anyone seeing that would know. I was like, “Are they including this because someone who uses he/him pronouns is going to die in this episode?” I was like, “Who could it be? They’re not going to kill Micah. Who could they kill? Who could they kill?” That is not why that was shown in the previously on.

Analyssa: I was just going to get mad about the previously on because it had so many scenes that I enjoyed, and then the things that were in this episode had nothing to do with the thing I enjoyed in that scene, i.e. Kehlani, Joey Lauren Adams. It’s all the setup that makes sense, but it got my little hopes up just a little bit, that some guest stars would be back, or that it would be a really Sophie centric episode, which it kind of was, but I was like, “I’ve been tricked.”

Riese: Speaking of trickery.

Drew: Yeah. The opening is very annoying. It is a serious medical drama. And then it’s like, “Oh, it’s actually Grey’s Anatomy and—”

Riese: Carrie and Misty are watching it?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s not Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Oh. Well, yeah. But they say it is.

Riese: But they say it is.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah. I have to get that out because it bothered me both times it was brought up. It’s not Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Sure, I believe you.

Analyssa: Okay, great.

Riese: Yeah. The hallway was really empty for Grey’s Anatomy.

Analyssa: That’s not a shot from Grey’s Anatomy, number one. Number two, they’re talking… Well, it doesn’t matter. I won’t get into this, but if any other people who watched Grey’s Anatomy watch this episode and were like, “This is inconsistent. The things that they’re talking about.” Find me.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I have thoughts.

Drew: I think as someone who watched the first few seasons of Grey’s Anatomy when they aired, and then moved on with my life, I don’t have strong feelings. I was like, “Obviously they’re not going to get the rights to Grey’s Anatomy, so I understand.” but I understand why you are — as a Grey’s Anatomy fan, are like, “This is wrong.”

Riese: Yeah. I just don’t understand why they did this. Why did they end with Finley doing the chest compressions, and being in a panic? That’s supposed to arouse emotions within us that something terrible is happening. But then we saw right away, in the next dawn, that Carrie was alive, and then we opened with Carrie being more than okay.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t love it. And I saw someone comment that Rosie O’Donnell’s talked a lot about having a heart attack, and heart health, and things like that. And it is one of those things where it’s this excuse that’s used—

Riese: Yeah. It doesn’t really make sense.

Drew: —for being like, Jamie really wanted to play a cis character where you’re like, “Okay, but one, maybe this is why there shouldn’t be only one trans actor or only one fat actor.” These things. But then also, I guarantee there are actors who have requested things for their characters, and that hasn’t been listened to.

Riese: Kate Moennig requested that she talk about Jenny, and they were like, “Nope.”

Drew: It still is a choice that’s made. And it’s not legend and carrying Gen Q Rosie O’Donnell’s responsibility — carrying wasn’t a pun, but I realize it was — responsibility to think about the nuances of queer representation, and fat representation, and these things. There’s a writer’s room for that. There are producers for that. I get it, but that’s not a good enough explanation for me.

Riese: No, I don’t think so. I mean, Rosie’s done a lot of things in her life that aren’t part of Carrie’s character. I mean, heart attacks happen on TV all the time, but I think the way it was set up— I mean, Gigi’s car crash, to a certain extent, where it’s this cliffhanger type thing where we’re supposed to feel stressed about it, but then we’re not. It’s just like, I don’t get it. It’s like an artificial—

Drew: Right. It’s both cheap narratively, and it also just really sucks. Because Rosie O’Donnell should not be the fattest actor on the show three seasons in, first of all. And then the way that the episode continues, as we’ve said, Rosie O’Donnell is always a pleasure to watch, and I love Carrie and Misty together, and Carrie and Finley’s chosen family relationship is so lovely.
But it just really fucking sucks, the way that this episode, and I guess we’ll keep coming back to this, but it’s just all about how Carrie needs to diet and exercise. The way Finley is acting is like a judge on The Biggest Loser from 2006 or whatever.

Riese: Right. But they don’t say anything about her size, or her weight. I think they felt like it was okay because of that. It’s not focused on her, which is something. At least no one was like, “You need to lose weight.” Or something. It was focused on her health or whatever. There’s that.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which is also accurate. She doesn’t need to lose weight! I think putting that burden on our only fat character is still really irritating. People of all sizes have heart attacks.

Drew: Yeah. Far more fun is that Angie in a post breakup haze, is reading The Price of Salt, and watching Four-Faced Liar, which is—

Riese: Oh, that’s what she was watching.

Drew: Marja-Lewis Ryan’s movie that she wrote and starred in, that’s not available to stream. The day this podcast comes out, my updated lesbian movie list will be out, and it’s not available anywhere. Which I’m surprised that… I don’t know.

Analyssa: Angie did-

Drew: Angie downloaded it, torrented Four-Faced Liar, which there are far better movies that you could torrent, Angie.

Analyssa: Well, they did Marja’s play in Angie’s High School. They have a direct line coming in. They have a connection to the playwright.

Riese: Yeah. Maybe she got, maybe Marja, to send her the file.

Drew: I’m sure.

Riese: Those are the perks.

Analyssa: Marja loved the high school production. That got done so much that she-

Riese: Yeah, that she stayed in touch with Angie ever since.

Drew: That’s really beautiful.

Riese: But most importantly, she’s wearing her Sisterhood Is Powerful t-shirt.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And if we were wondering, “When are we going to see that again?” Luckily, we’re seeing it in a moment of sadness, and depression, and despair.

Drew: Sometimes being powerful means-

Riese: Being sad?

Drew: Taking time to be sad, yeah.

Riese: Yeah, taking time for yourself. And you know what a danger is to dating your teacher? Not wanting to go to class.

Analyssa: Angie is in a post breakup slump. Her roommate is trying to rally her out of bed, and out of the room, and then a much stronger-

Riese: Surprise!

Analyssa: A much stronger force arrives.

Riese:
It’s Bette and Tina!

Drew: Yeah. And Bette immediately starts cleaning up, which is lovely and funny. And also what I would do if I was in that room. It was funny. I was very happy to see them.

Riese: Yeah. I was like, “Oh, good!”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: I was like, “Am I betraying myself here?” But they were cute, and we haven’t really seen them get to be mothers to Angie in a way where that’s not about them. It was interesting to actually finally see them focused on her, but they also obviously are concerned about her wellbeing because she seems unwell. And she is unwell, because she had sex with a terrible person.

Drew: We’ve all been there.

Riese: Anyway, they’re going to go to her reading tonight.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And so am I.

Analyssa: And so are we all.

Riese: All so we all are. Yes. Everyone loves a student reading. They’re always very well attended. Big event.

Analyssa: They’re also always in these-

Riese: Always on the website.

Analyssa: Huge auditoriums.

Riese: Yeah, huge auditorium. Yeah, they were really expecting a big crowd for that.

Drew: Speaking of rough days, Shane wakes up naked, which could be good, except that Tess is already getting dressed, and getting ready to leave. It feels very much like they are hooking up and still living together. But I mean, maybe they’re not hooking up. Are they just living together?

Riese: I don’t know if they were hooking up or not. I thought maybe that was just how Shane slept.

Drew: Does Shane just sleep naked?

Analyssa: I thought they were hooking up.

Drew: I thought they were hooking up.

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: I feel like if you’re not hooking up you’re not going to share a bed and be naked.

Analyssa: Also they have a big house.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They could…

Riese: Could sleep somewhere else?

Analyssa: Sleep somewhere else, yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I think they’re hooking up, but clearly, there is still tension, and Shane is like, “What if we talk to someone?”

Riese: Shane suggests couples therapy.

Drew: Yeah, and Tess says no, which my big complaint about this episode with them, is it turned it into a thing where Tess becomes more at fault in the split, when that’s not really fair given … I don’t know. It just is this thing where it’s like, “Well, Tess is drinking again, and being erratic, and doing this and this.” And it’s like, “Shane needs to grow.” Shane has fucked up, and sucks, and the show doesn’t quite seem to know who it wants us to be. It doesn’t feel complicated. It just feels like now it’s really… I don’t know.

Riese: Well, I felt that it was definitely Tess’s fault.

Drew: Well, yeah. No, I know. But that’s what I’m saying is that-

Riese: If that’s what the show was feeding me, I ate that.

Drew: Right.

Riese: I ate every bite.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And also, Tess turning down therapy, which is something that-

Drew: Yeah, makes no sense.

Riese: If Shane asked me to go to couple’s therapy, I’d be like, “We don’t even know each other, but if this is what it takes to get you into a therapist’s office, absolutely, let’s do it.”

Analyssa: But this had to follow the time honored tradition of The L Word: Gen Q‘s insistence on one character introducing an idea. Another character saying, “Okay, I’m on board for this idea.” And the first character reacting as though that’s the craziest thing anyone has ever said in their life. They love doing that. Okay.

Riese: Anyway, Tess has to go meet with the tile guy at the second bar, which I honestly hoped had just fallen into the sea. I wanted it to just go away. I didn’t want to ever hear about the second bar again.

Drew: That may happen. Meanwhile, Alice is showing Sophie pictures of her cat, Piddles Jr., PJ, which I was like, “Okay, PJ’s a very cute name.”

Analyssa: PJ’s really sweet.

Riese: Later, she calls him little PP. We can go in so many directions with this.

Drew: And they’re getting ready for the season finale of The Alice Show ending with Rachel Maddow.

Riese: I know. And for a moment, for a brief shimmering moment, I was like, “Oh, my God.”

Analyssa: I put all caps in my notes. I was so excited. And then I realized like, “Oh, okay.”

Riese: I was like, “People are going to flip out!”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, even though the video of Alice in the movie theater went viral several episodes ago, it is now going viral again in a new way, because James Cordon tweeted it.

Analyssa: They’ve brought back Alice’s random beef with James Cordon.

Riese: Right. Of all the things to remember to bring back around, it was her beef with James Cordon, who, I think probably since this episode was filmed, edited, and produced and wrapped, has had his own entitlement virality.

Analyssa: But that’s really funny, actually. They didn’t mean for this, but it layers in a thing where the idea in my head is that James Cordon tweeted this so that people will stop paying attention to the fact that he’s still beefing with the head chef at Balthazar. He was like, “Okay, I finally have an idea. Something that will get them off of me.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And then it causes a whole Alice is getting canceled storyline that culminates with someone bringing up Darryl Brewer, which we all remember who Darryl Brewer is, because our lives are very tied into The L Word.

Analyssa: I simply didn’t.

Drew: Oh, you didn’t? Oh, I love that for you.

Analyssa: They said that name, and I said, “Who is that?”

Drew: I’m so happy for you.

Analyssa: And then when she started the next thing and was like, “So, there was this guy.” I was like, “Okay. It’s all coming back to me now.” But just the name? No, that did nothing for me.

Riese: But when Sophie said the name, and Alice was like… I was like…

Drew: When this first started, I went, “Oh, God. They’re doing a canceled storyline.” And I just was like, “There’s no way this is going to be done well.” Even Tàr, which I think is a very good movie in so many ways, anything to do with cancel culture just falls so flat there. And I did not trust these writers. I thought it worked.

Riese: I thought it worked, too.

Drew: I thought it was really good. We’ll get into some more details later, but I was like, “They’ve handled this well.”

Riese: And also, when I saw the episode description, it was like, “Alice has to pay for something she did in her past.” Or whatever. And I saw the preview with Sophie being like, “I don’t know how to fix this.” Gretchen was like, “What do you think it is?” And I was like, “I think it’s going to be Daryl Brewer.” Because that was such a big…

Analyssa: Your mind amazes me.

Riese: But one could argue, it could have more important things in it than this.

Drew: Then we go to the trail with Carrie and Misty and Finley.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: It was very nice out.

Analyssa: Because the whole plot is Carrie, per doctor’s orders, has to be able to walk a quarter mile on an incline. There’s a weird subplot here where Finley’s like, “And if you do it, you can bone Misty.” Which I was like, “Weird thing to say to your mom, but okay.”

Riese: And Misty’s part of that, too. Misty’s also like, “Then we can-”

Analyssa: Yeah, but Misty and Carrie get in on it, and then I feel okay about it. It’s just when Finley is like, “The two of you could fuck.”

Drew: Well, and then Carrie talks to Misty, and is like, “I-”

Riese: I’m not ready, obviously.

Drew: “I’m not ready. I want to take it slow.” And it’s very sweet. And Misty is like, “Well, I’m really good at it. Whenever you’re ready.” And that was a great response.

Analyssa: They’re fun.

Drew: I loved it. I loved it. I loved that part.

Riese: It was cute. I also just loved them being outdoors. It was very beautiful to see our great city rolling before us.

Analyssa: Which is currently under so much rain.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Yeah. Well…

Riese: Barry is on the phone, right?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: With Alice. And they’re very upset, and they want her to apologize, and Sophie is trying so hard to manage the situation appropriately, and I think doing a really good job.

Analyssa: I really liked this for Sophie in this episode, watching her-

Riese: Just do her shit, yeah.

Analyssa: Just do good at her job.

Drew: I love … I mean, not to be a Capricorn, but it’s so nice to get stories in the workplace that aren’t people boning in the workplace. It’s possible to have storylines with these characters that isn’t someone cheating, or someone having sex they shouldn’t have. Not that those things aren’t fun, but there are other things you can do.

Riese: Right. And he wants her to apologize, and Sophie’s like, “Absolutely.” She feels remorse, she will do it. And Alice is like, “No, I don’t.”

Drew: And then we go to everybody’s new favorite couple, or at least mine, Dani and Dre. Dani’s lying in Dre’s lap while Dre writes a song, and it’s very cute. And then they start making out. And I went, “What’s going to interrupt it? What’s going to interrupt it?” And very quickly, Dre says, “I love you.” And then is like, “I mean, I love what you’re doing.” And there is a moment, and then Sophie calls, and Dani’s like, “I have to get this!” And it’s like, “Oh, thanks for saving me.”

Analyssa: Double interruption.

Drew: Yeah, double interruption.

Riese: Why won’t anyone have sex on this show?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: What is happening?

Analyssa: Why is this show forcing me to be a pervert, and be like, “Everybody should be having sex more”?

Riese: Yeah. What is going on?

Analyssa: It’s so weird. It’s very bizarre.

Riese: I’m just confused. And I would like to speak to the head of Paramount Networks, personally.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a bummer. I would be very curious to know what led to that.

Riese: Intimacy coordinators aren’t that expensive, are they?

Drew: No, I don’t think so. Can you imagine if that’s what it is? Then we go to Angie who’s talking to Bella, and nervous that her parents will find out about Hendrix. And then-

Riese: You win!

Drew: I get to win.

Analyssa: You win!

Drew: Bella tells Angie that she’s the best person she knows, and that she’s a total catch, and Bella’s face is saying that I was right, and there is something here between these two. And I don’t know when it’s going to come about, but it sure is happening.

Riese: Yeah. Bella has feelings.

Drew: Bella has big, big feelings.

Riese: And Angie is oblivious.

Drew: Oblivious.

Analyssa: No idea.

Riese: And I really thought, “Oh, good.” I thought it was going to happen this episode, and I was excited.

Drew: It really sucks where this ends, because I really thought it was going to end with getting rid of Hendrix. Hendricks is gone out of my life, but nope. They said, “Yeah, we only have one episode left. But you know what we want to do? We want to keep Hendrix around.” More on that later.

Riese: Oh, and then Bella, they call Bella to go sit with Bette and Tina.

Analyssa: Where they all proceed to talk through every single other person’s reading. No one else is getting to do their reading in peace.

Riese: No. This is before Shane comes, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Speaking of things that people should apologize for, I tried. Sophie brings Dani in as a fixer, and it’s like Dani’s written hundreds of public apologies, which is like, “Sure has.”

Riese: She got somebody to say the right thing about their own child dying of an opioid overdose, even though his company manufactured the opioids. Yeah. You can do that. You can apologize for outing a basketball player.

Drew: I love Dani season three, and I sometimes forget how bad things were in season one.

Riese: Well, now she’s using her powers for good.

Drew: I guess so.

Riese: If Alice would only let her use her powers for good.

Drew: I love change. But Alice, yeah, is like, “I want to double down.” Kimmel would double down. And Sophie’s like, “Kimmel’s not a queer woman.” And then Alice is like, “You don’t understand how hard things were back then, and how hard it was being gay back then.” Basically, if you didn’t watch the original series or didn’t remember it in detail, there’s a sort of recap of what happened with Darryl Brewer.

Riese: She went to this secret Hollywood party, which by the way, she signed an NDA to go into, with her girlfriend who was in the Army and under investigation, under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and saw this guy who was a famous athlete. She didn’t know anything about sports. And filmed him with her flip phone that she was supposed to surrender at the door. And then the next day, he said something homophobic about this other guy who had come out in sports, and it was honestly the most absurd. It was on our favorite news channel, Now News or whatever.

And it was an inane quote. It was something like, “I don’t want those fucking gays in my locker room. And I let that be known.” Or whatever the fuck it was that he said. And then Alice made a video where she showed the video she took, again, at a party where she signed an NDA. And also, I re-watched this piece, and there’s people in the background of the video, too. It was supposed to be a secret Hollywood … And she is there with a girl who, if her girlfriend had been in the video, would’ve been in huge trouble.

And she did this. She decided to post the video outing him because he had said something homophobic. And the thing is that, at the time, no one thought it was a good idea either. She’s talking about back then, and out of curiosity, I was like, “Let me see what I wrote about it in my recap that I wrote in 2008.” And at that time, I thought it was a terrible idea. This was not something that anyone thought was a good idea.

Drew: Totally. What I liked about it was the idea of—

Riese:
I mean, they’re doing an Ellen thing.

Drew: Sure. But I liked it also because it felt like something that Alice, given her… I mean, the one thing that I wish had happened is that they’d addressed race at all. Because obviously, one, it’s more interesting and more nuanced, and also, it is what would be on Twitter. Specifically, she didn’t just out someone, she outed a black man.

Riese: A black man? Yeah.

Drew: And I wish that that was dealt with at all.

Riese: Right. Especially as she’s this rich white woman lecturing two women of color about how they should understand her oppression in 2008.

Drew: Yeah. It just felt very true to … How old’s Alice supposed to be?

Riese: 45, or something, probably.

Drew: Yeah, a cis white 45 year old lesbian, where it’s like, yeah, things were a lot worse for her at that time. And there’s probably a level of righteousness that she feels, even if she doesn’t get it, and I did appreciate that. But I wish, one, that they’d addressed race, and two, when Alice is like, “Him saying fag on TV.” And then Dani being like, “We actually don’t say fag anymore.” Was very annoying, and felt like such … There was actually sort of a realism to this scene in a way that I found really interesting, and that felt like not even a good joke, but just something in there. And was like, “Queer people constantly say dyke and fag.” And it’s not…

Riese: Right.

Drew: It would’ve been funnier if she’d said, “Don’t say that word in your apology.” Whatever. But, but anyways…

Riese: But realistically, in this conversation, they would be talking about race.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And they would’ve been like, “Even just, this isn’t a good look for you to be doubling down on this.” And at the time she got a lot of important feedback that she disregarded, like that this man had a family. He wasn’t a politician enforcing laws. You’re not just outing this man, you’re also causing a great amount of pain to his wife and his children, and you can’t just disregard that because you’re upset that he said something homophobic.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Although, also sort of at a through-line of the original storyline is that Alice didn’t really seem to realize how famous he was.

Drew: Right.

Riese: But she gets on the news about it. Her and Tasha break up over it, but they ended up getting back together a few episodes later. Then she gets on The Talk, and she semi-outs Nikki Stevens. And this is a pattern. And then she’s barred from the set of Lez Girls. This is not the first time she’s faced consequences for this, and she still is doubling down. I just think that’s beautiful. Also, her outfit was beautiful.

Analyssa: She says to them at the end that she will apologize, which is so not what’s going to happen, but she agrees to do it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well, speaking of people who deserve consequences, Hendrix has started his reading, and he is talking to Angie through his other student’s readings.

Drew: Bold.

Analyssa: Just another crime on his list.

Drew: And he calls Angie immature. And it’s like, “No, she’s not immature. She is the exact mature of an 18 year old, sir.”

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Right. I was so happy they were finally showing this guy to be the creep asshole that he is. And Angie, her responses to him were incredible. Just a choice. I was like, “Finally.” Now I know, “Okay, good. The show wants us to know that this man sucks.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: And then Bella also meets Shane and is like, “Wow, you’re hot.” Which was cute.

Drew: Yeah. And also Bella is like, “I have candy in my bag.” It’s like Bette is an old lady now. How cute!”

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, also earlier when they were leaving the dorm room, Bella was like, “Wow, iconic.”

Analyssa: Yeah. Just obsessed with all the-

Riese: Right. Now she’s probably feeling even gayer than she was before, and now she really wants into the family.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, the idea of being queer slash bisexual, slash a lesbian, and seeing other queer women around you who are older, and being like, “Suddenly, I’m obsessed with them.” Suddenly, I need to be around them as much as I can. Imagine if those women were Bette Porter, Tina Kenard, and Shane.

Riese: Yeah. We start to have feelings for a girl, and then those three walk into your life, and sit down next to you, and offer you candy. Wow. You’re like, “This is the life for me.”

Analyssa: I’m actually ready to marry Angie, thank you so much.

Riese: Yeah, wow.

Analyssa: I never need anyone ever again.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Bette and Shane then have a nice talk about Tess, because Bette is now very-

Riese: Enlightened.

Drew: Enlightened.

Analyssa: Evolved.

Riese: Yeah. They’ve made it to couples therapy, again.

Drew: Yes, which Shane makes a joke about, is they have good couples therapists in Toronto. And Tina says, “Yeah, universal healthcare.” I would like to say, because I have inside knowledge, that Canada’s universal healthcare does not cover eyes, teeth, or mental health.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: Yeah. Canada has problems, too. That’s something that I learned this summer.

Riese: Eyes, teeth, or mental health.

Drew: I mean, I would like to say that my insurance I pay for also doesn’t cover eyes, teeth, or mental health. The US is not good, but yeah.

Riese: Oh, interesting. But also, would Bette be covered under universal healthcare, just if she’s there illegally? She doesn’t even have a passport.

Drew: No, she wouldn’t be. And Tina would be-

Analyssa: Doesn’t have a visa to work there.

Drew: And Tina would be covered by her… I mean, it was a joke. It’s fine. I’m just letting you know a little knowledge because I’m dating a Canadian.

Riese: Well, that’s important. All of our Canadian listeners will appreciate that reality check.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Tina would not have Canadian insurance. She’d have her-

Riese: Employer?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Murdoch Mysteries.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Paw Patrol.

Drew: But just little fun facts there.

Analyssa: The end of that is that Shane is kind of like, “I don’t feel like Tess and I are growing in the same direction.” Or something sort of vague, but indicating that she’s kind of over it. And then Shane sees the professor, and that becomes a thing later.

Drew: Yeah. This episode did explain why … I mean, it doesn’t explain it because it’s not … But in the sense of being like, “Why aren’t they addressing this?” They wanted to address it when Bette and Tina were around.

Riese: Right. But the way Angie said her lines should have been different I think, in the last episode. Because it would’ve been easy when Shane had asked her, “Where did you guys meet?” She’d be like, “Oh, at the gallery.” And instead of saying he wants to get back to the end of the semester, because that would be a clue, she would’ve been like, “Later, when we’re a little bit older.” Or something.

Analyssa: Or, “When we’ve been in college longer.” Or something. Yeah.

Riese: Well, yeah. Yeah. She would not mention this semester. She certainly would not bring Shane over to the car where the staff parking pass is hanging. All of those decisions.

Drew: I think they also could have had it be a thing where Bella initially had said, “That’s a little whatever.” And Angie was like, “No, I know. But it’s not like that.” It could have been more of a thread throughout this entire season where there was some acknowledgement from the show, and from the people in Angie’s life, and then Angie was making the choice. Because that’s more, I mean, I don’t know personally what it would be like to be an 18 year old girl in 2022 having sex with your male professor, but I would imagine that there would be a little bit more awareness, and a little bit more, I don’t know.

Riese: But, yeah. I think that’s perfectly fine if Angie was hiding it, but we should have seen that she was hiding it. And we didn’t see that.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. Then we go to, Dani is running her statement by Sophie, and Sophie’s like, “Yeah. Just put it more in Alice’s voice.” And Alice is oblivious, just riding around on the little bike, getting ready for the show. And then Rachel Maddow dropped out, and that Alice gets very upset, and is like, “All the queers turned on me.”

Riese: And also, Alice is in this Evel Knievel jumpsuit with… It’s one of those things where I want Alice to be better than this, because I love her. But also, this tracks with the Alice that we’ve always known, the part of her that we don’t want to see, or that I don’t want to see, because I prefer to just love her.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s also very funny because the hashtag is like, “Alice so entitled.” And this whole little insert. I was like, if this video went viral.

Riese: Right. And then she’s like, “Cancel the show.” Which is like, “You are not the only person employed by this.” The entitlement continues.

Drew: But Sophie’s like, “I’m going to produce this show.”

Riese: Yeah! And I was like, “Yes!”

Analyssa: I’m going to produce the shit out of this show.

Riese: Yeah. I was so happy. And also, her and Dani working together is cute. We return to the reading.

Drew: Yeah, where Angie’s reading some 18 year old poetry.

Riese: Yeah. I chose to sort of-

Analyssa: I didn’t really-

Riese: I didn’t want to know.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: It’s one thing when it’s Hendrix, and he’s getting published, and is an adult person. But I’m like, “This feels about, what? College freshman poetry.” I mean, no. Because your fucking poetry you wrote in high school is good. But I hate you. That’s not normal people.

Analyssa: You know when you have a kid who’s in the dance recital, and they’re not the best dancer? And so, you kind of just sit there being like, “Yeah.” That’s sort of how I listened to Angie’s writing. I was just like, “Oh, my kid’s up there doing something.”

Riese: Yeah. Well, I thought I was better. No, I didn’t. I wasn’t listening. But then it’s this really funny moment where Shane is like, “That’s her boyfriend.” And they’re like, “No, that’s her professor.” And then they all are like, “Bella?”

Analyssa: When the three of them looked at Bella, I was like, “Oh, no. She’s seeing her world crumble before her eyes.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: To Bella’s credit, she doesn’t do … She just-

Riese: She just goes … They’re like, “Is that her boyfriend, her ex, or professor?”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I didn’t say it in the last scene, but I do just want a little bit of commotion for Jennifer Beals’ big glasses.

Riese: Oh, yeah. I did love this.

Drew: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Riese: I did love those.

Analyssa: Amazing choice.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Incredible. Yeah. That’s thriving.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa:
Amazing.

Drew: And then Tina shouts at Hendrix and makes a scene, which this is one of those times where I’m like, “Sure, Tina would do this. I’m not mad at the writers.” But also, Tina? To be a little less Tina. Tina was so Tina this episode.

Analyssa: This was a big Tina episode.

Drew: This was Tina at peak Tina in so many different ways, which we’ll get to some of the later ones. But she was so Tina.

Riese: I felt like this was absurd. She would never do this, but I’ll accept it in the world of The L Word, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. I mean-

Analyssa: Right. You would never do this.

Drew: It depends how much you hate-

Analyssa: Someone would never do this.

Riese: Right. I would say those things to him, but after the show, face to face.

Drew: Yeah. Sure.

Riese: You don’t want to embarrass your daughter.

Drew: No, but Tina is Tina.

Riese: I’m glad that Tina’s back so that we can all remind ourselves how Drew feels about Tina.

Drew: It was so funny, because I used to not be as harsh on Tina as a lot of other people. I’m certainly not number one Tina hater. Other people hate Tina more than me, for sure. But this still felt Tina-y. Tina, whose favorite movie of all time is Catch 22, directed by Mike Nichols. Something I think about-

Riese: Every day?

Drew: Not every day, but definitely some days.

Riese: Yeah. Would you say at least weekly?

Drew: If I was doing banter and stuff, I’d be like, “Yeah, definitely.” But I think it’s probably monthly, which is still a lot.

Riese: That is a lot, yeah. That is a lot.

Analyssa: For a fact, that is from 2008.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Part of Sophie’s plan, Margaret Cho is hosting. She does not come back for the episode. But we-

Riese: No. Also, they allegedly are doing all of this in 45 minutes.

Drew: Which is-

Riese: And that’s fine.

Drew: Yeah. I love it. I love it. But Sophie’s like, “We have this gap in the schedule.” And Dani’s like, “Dre.”

Analyssa: “What about Dre?” Sure.

Drew: And then they’re like, “Yeah. That’s exactly what-”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Sophie’s like, “Yeah. That’s what I’ve always wanted to do, bring talent into it.” And I was like, “Yes, let’s do it!”

Riese: Yes! I felt so excited for her, because I was like, “That’s how I feel about my work.” And that’s always the dream, is that you get this big huge platform and you can bring all of your friends, who you know are really talented, but no one cares because they’re gay, onto your show.

Drew: I will say that maybe Rachel Maddow wasn’t willing to do this, but the move should have been, Rachel Maddow does a 60 minute talk with Alice, and they really get-

Riese: Yes. Yeah, Rachel Maddow interviews Alice.

Drew: Yeah. I was really hoping for that. I didn’t remember if Rachel Maddow was-

Riese: Yeah. And then Alice can’t be like, “You don’t know how it was back then.” Because Rachel would be like, “Yeah, I really do.”

Analyssa: “No, I was there.”

Riese: “I was there. While you were on talk, I was on the streets with NPR.”

Drew: We didn’t go to an annoying scene of Finley being like, “Come on, come on, come on.” And getting carried up this mountain. But I have to imagine, if you had a heart attack a week ago, going past your capacity is not a good thing to do. It’s not a healthy thing to do.

Riese: I don’t know. I’ve never known anyone who lived through a heart attack.

Analyssa: Well, great point.

Riese: I mean, I do. I’m sure I do.

Analyssa: My thing is that she only has to do a quarter of a mile, and then later they say they made her do a half a mile. It’s so rude.

Drew: It’s also just, if the whole thing is like, “It’s about health.” It’s like, “This is not healthy. This is not healthy.”

Riese: But look at the view

Analyssa: But look at the view.

Drew: The view is nice.

Analyssa: And Carrie-

Riese: Take some time to enjoy the view. That’s what-

Analyssa: Smell the roses?

Riese: Yeah. But I mean, that’s what they used to say on The View.

Drew: Also who doesn’t bring real fucking water?

Riese: Oh, yeah. Who doesn’t bring real … I like when she was like, “I like water that’s clear, like everyone else.” Finley sticking that green powder into her … That’s dirty.

Drew: That’s awful.

Riese: That’s awful. Unforgivable.

Drew: I did enjoy when Finley says to Carrie, “I love you. Not in a gay way, even though we’re both gay.” I really loved that.

Riese: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was really funny. And she’s like, “I know what you mean.”

Analyssa: And then Misty being like, “Carrie, I’m gay for you.” That whole exchange was really funny. I would-

Riese: Do you think Kate might be a really good director?

Drew: I think. Maybe.

Analyssa: I think Kate might be a really good director. It really felt like it was, yeah, like zinging between people a lot.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Just one sidebar, I would be furious if the girl who can’t cook chicken breasts was telling me about my health and what I need eat. The audacity.

Riese: But also, I do want to say, another crime against humanity that occurred with this storyline, is that in the next dawn, they made it seem like Carrie and Finley are having a genuine fight. And they weren’t. It was resolved very quickly, as usual, because that’s their relationship, and that’s wonderful. But it seems to be resolved.

Drew: Okay. But then we have to go to Tina being Tina, and being like, “He belongs in jail!” Which another storyline would’ve loved to talk about race, but no. Tina has-

Riese: Also Tina feeling, “I’m going to get a condo right next to your dorm!” I’m like, “Oh, my God.” And Shane’s like, “Why didn’t you tell me?” And I’m like, “Yeah, Shane. Good question.” And she’s like, “You guys don’t have to know everything about me!”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, because Shane and Bette and Tina are like, “You were taken advantage of.” And Angie’s like, “No, I wasn’t.” And then calls them all hypocrites. Which points were made there.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: But sometimes it’s a, “Do as I say, not as I do.” Situation.

Riese: Right. Or, “Learn from my mistakes.” Situation.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which I guess required acknowledging those mistakes. Apparently no one’s ready to do.

Analyssa: But Bette’s evolved now. Maybe she is willing to do that.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, Bette’s definitely handling it the best. I mean, obviously, Tina just shouldn’t have yelled at him in front of everybody, which is obvious.

Riese: Right. That’s awful.

Drew: And it’s just set up for failure to talk to Angie about this, at this point. But then Angie runs off, and then Bella runs after her, and Angie’s like, “They totally misjudged the situation.” And Bella’s like, “No they didn’t, because he did take advantage of you. And also, I’m in love with you.” She doesn’t say that. She doesn’t say that, but that’s in her eyes. You can really feel it.

Analyssa: That is where I hope this conversation was going. I can feel that they’re building towards it, but I was like, “Let’s just skip to that part. Let’s cut to the good stuff.”

Riese: Yeah. But I appreciate it, because now we see Angie really believes that she’s the one in control here, because she made the moves. And it’s like, “No.”

Analyssa: It doesn’t really matter.

Riese: Yeah. She was like, “He has all the power.” And Angie was like, “That’s not true.” And it’s like, “Yes, it is. Look at where you were this morning. You weren’t even going to go to class. You were going to fail this-” Which, oh, by the way, you’re not going to fail this class. This man is going to give you an A if he knows what’s good for him, or he is going to leave in the three weeks before the end of the semester.

Analyssa: It was really big of Bette to never once say language to Angie, because there were a lot of F-bombs thrown around in this scene. That was a really big sign of growth.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah.

Drew: But Angie runs off.

Riese: Anyway, Angie doesn’t want to go to a nice dinner anymore.

Drew: No. She’s like, “I don’t want to seem like a kid.” When you’re 18, I do feel like one of the main things is you don’t want to be seen as a kid. So I did. I get it.

Analyssa: Yeah. And Tina and Bette’s, Tina especially, reaction are, “My kid has always been good.” Basically, and followed the rules, and this is such a wild departure from that, that I’m overreacting. That all made sense to me. And even Angie being bad at lying, I was just thinking about this. She’s never really had to lie to them a ton. I guess when she was hanging out with-

Riese: Well about smoking weed.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Her bad friend?

Analyssa: When she was hanging out with her bad friend, Jordi. But-

Drew: Who she never had sex with.

Analyssa: Right, despite being high, and also bad. Some there, a little bit, but not really. It was basically like, “Yep, I’ve been hanging out with her.” And they kind of resolved it. I feel like a lot of this is just first rebellion, which I get, as a college storyline. I just wish it didn’t involve this. What if it was some frat dude? There’s a whole bunch of other ways that her moms would be horrified by her choices while she’s growing.

Drew: They even could’ve stuck with the storyline, and not spent so much time on it. The way that some of the Bella scenes were, there could’ve been more of that, where, “This is happening.” Angie is not participating in college life as much because of this thing that’s happening. But we get to see college life. We get to see the queer people who she might be hanging out with. But-

Riese: You see her leaving the queer club early. Or we see Bella being like, “We’re having this cast party tonight. Do you want to come? You stage-handed stuff in high school.” And her being like, “Oh, I can’t.”

Drew: Bella could have revealed feelings earlier, and Angie chooses instead to go. Even if-

Analyssa: Or even said something about it being weird that she’s spending so much time with her professor, or this guy. She kind of mentions it offhandedly early, and that’s really it. And that’s before she knows that it’s Angie’s professor, right? She’s like, “I never see you, because you’re with your boy.” And that’s like, once she finds out and she clearly has an issue with it, that could have come up more.

Drew: 100%. We then go to Alice, who can’t find Piddles Jr., and at one point says, “When am I going to go back to podcasts? Because kill me.” And that did bring quite a chuckle to me.

Analyssa: Alice is unaware that podcasting is actually kind of a lucrative business these days.

Riese: Right. Not for us.

Analyssa: Not for us, specifically. But other people. Actually, a lot of talk show greats are retiring into podcasting.

Riese: Yeah. If I could just do a podcast every week, and that would be my job, wow. That would be truly living the dream. But she can’t find the cad ,and she realizes it’s because she opened the window, because the litter box smelled, because she was leaving the litter box by her bed.

Drew: Not cleaning it? And not cleaning it?

Analyssa: And not cleaning it often enough.

Riese: I mean, litter boxes always smell, in my opinion.

Analyssa: Yeah. In her bedroom is a weird place for that. She’s got a big enough house. It could be somewhere much more convenient.

Riese: Yeah. She could give the cat its own room.

Drew: Though I will say, I had this idea that if you had a cat, your house would always smell like cat, based on the people I grew up with. Since I’ve been around the gays, and met cats in queer households-

Riese: It’s not true.

Analyssa: It’s not true.

Drew: I’ve been in plenty of households where it’s just tended to, and the house does not smell bad at all.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s possible.

Drew: It is possible. I’ve never had a cat on my own, but-

Analyssa: Also let’s just all be really serious for a second, and say that Alice has a cleaning lady.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Why? Okay.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Let’s just all be honest with ourselves.

Drew: Yeah. No, Alice has never cleaned, or hasn’t cleaned her own place in two decades. Since the original L Word.

Analyssa: Alice does not change her own duvet cover. I’ll say it right now.

Drew: No. No, she doesn’t.

Riese: No. No, she doesn’t. And then we go to bar number two where Tess is continuing to pound the vodka, vodka by vodka.

Analyssa: That damn travel mug.

Riese: Yeah, in her little travel mug. But at least this time she fucking does some breath spray before Shane walks in. At least we’re acknowledging the reality of life and science, and all of those things. But Shane’s like, “I haven’t been honest with you. I don’t want a second bar.” Yeah, we know. If Tess didn’t pick up on that, oh, my God. And then Shane shares a vision.

Drew: It’s a great idea. A great idea.

Riese: A really good idea.

Analyssa: This is a really good idea. You know what it’s a better idea than? A second bar around the corner from the bar that you already own.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I laughed so hard at Shane taking a really deep breath, being like, “I haven’t been honest with you.” I was like, “Is she going to reveal that she cheated in another way?” And-

Riese: I know. That’s what I was ready for.

Analyssa: And we didn’t know? That would be amazing. And then she was like, “I’ve never thought we needed a second bar.” Seriously.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’s actually the reveal that the reason she fucked Keilani was because she was a hairstylist, and she just misses hair, and she wants to open a salon.

Analyssa: A transference of desire.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I wanted to hear that she had been cheating this whole time. Because I was like, “That would be scandalous.” But then it was also really nice, because we’ve never really seen Shane assert her desires, or her dreams, or her wants, literally ever. For all of her, “I’m this independent-” Girls just kind of drag her around into their lives.

Also the whole mythos of Shane and stuff. She’s always in a relationship, and usually the other person is deciding what that’s going to look like, or what Shane’s going to do. Even her hair gigs, she kind of falls into them. Alice hooks her up with it. It was the Lez Girls set, or something. It was cool to see her be like, “This is something that I’m passionate about, that I enjoy doing.” Which I don’t even know if she’s said before, besides that she’s obviously good at it. And what a great idea to have a hair salon owned by a queer icon next to a lesbian bar.

Drew: Incredible.

Analyssa: Amazing.

Riese: Amazing. Perfect.

Drew: It’s so weird to have a scene where I loved, not half of the scene, but literally the way that Shane was written was great. The way Tess was written was baffling. But I was like, “Yes, this is such a moment of growth.” And I mean, there were things in this episode that were nuanced, and real, and interesting in a way that we really haven’t seen all season. But then Tess is like, “This is my dream! A second bar! I love bars more than anything!” And also-

Riese: How is that your dream, as a sober person, to have a second bar?

Analyssa: Love bars more than anything.

Riese: I just love bars!

Drew: And she’s like, “You’re so selfish.” And I’m like, “What?”

Riese: She’s like, “No one gets to be happy unless you’re happy.” And I’m like, “You haven’t cared about Shane’s happiness this whole season.”

Analyssa: Also we’ve just never seen that.

Riese: Yeah. That’s never really been true about Shane.

Analyssa: I understand if you’re like, “You’re very selfish. You think you can fuck anyone who you want to.” Okay. I’d be with you on that journey. You’re only-

Riese: Yeah. Or if you make reckless decisions, and don’t communicate about your emotions, and you go on these little benders like a child, that’s all true. But Shane doesn’t think anyone else deserves to be happy if Shane’s not happy? Hell no. That’s never been true.

Analyssa: I also don’t think Shane is-

Riese: Happy.

Analyssa: Happy very often.

Drew: It’s also just extending something that, I don’t know where … If they’re going towards a breakup, it just so easily could have started here in the sense of, instead of Tess reacting with anger, could have reacted with sadness, and could have revealed that she’s drinking again. Or could have just been … Some acknowledgement that this is growth for Shane.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I’m so baffled by Tess as a character, and it feels like maybe the writers are just blaming it all on her relapse, which is boring. And, yeah. I don’t know.

Riese: But I mean, the whole thing about the second bar. She’s been selfish about it from the start, and kind of manipulative about it from the start. And that was before she relapsed, so I don’t really get … Then they gave her the relapse. They killed her mom. And I don’t really know what’s happening here. But then she throws the wine bottle at the wall, which is a choice.

Analyssa: It was a better choice than what I thought was going to happen, which was that she was going to pocket it in front of Shane, and they were going to have a whole fight about that. And I was like, “I don’t want to see that.” But just Ana speaking for Ana. Imagining being an alcoholic, something that’s really far away from me. She wasted a whole bottle of wine!

There’s so much of that thinking that you have to unlearn when you stop drinking. But I will never forget reading, in The Recovering, Leslie Jamison mentioning that she would remember when friends left beer in the bottom of their glasses. And that is still something that, if I’m with friends, and they leave a little bit of wine in there glass, I’m like, “What the fuck is wrong with you?” Drink it. To see someone actively relapsing, throwing a bottle of wine, I get she’s being dramatic. But I was like, “That’s a lot of wine right there.”

Riese: Yeah. But also, what the fuck are they going to do that they own real estate together? Oh, but I also like that Shane was like, “You can run Dana’s, and I can run the salon.” Because obviously Shane doesn’t want to run a bar. And also, Shane shouldn’t be around alcohol either, that much alcohol. And also, I would love for Finley to just sweep up the hair, and maybe get into shampooing. Get out of the bar, and also get away from Tess, because obviously Finley and Tess are not working.

Drew: Let’s open up two salons. Let’s have no more bars.

Riese: No more bars.

Drew: A roller rink and a salon.

Analyssa: I’d venture a hot take and say almost zero characters on The L Word need to be around alcohol.

Riese:
Right. That’s true.

Analyssa:
It’s so close to zero.

Riese: I mean, sometimes it’s nice if Bette has a little bit too much. It’s entertaining. But-

Analyssa: I like Alice swanning around with a big glass, which she does sometimes. That’s kind of fun.

Drew: We go back to Sophie getting the whole show together.

Analyssa: She’s done so much in 45 minutes.

Drew: Yeah, it’s incredible.

Riese: I know. Amazing. Incredible.

Analyssa: Amazing stuff.

Riese: Look at her go.

Drew: And-

Riese: Who’s that girl? It’s Sophie.

Drew: Dre’s there and wants to talk to Dani about the whole I Love You incident. And Dani’s like, “I’ve got to do business at the business factory right now. We cannot address the I Love You situation.”

Riese: Right. Then we go to, what is it called? Frosties?

Analyssa: Fosters Freeze.

Riese: Fosters Freeze?

Analyssa: This is a real place, and I think that I was at Fosters Freeze on the night that it was being location scouted for The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: Because I was there a few months ago.

Riese: Yeah?

Analyssa: Picture this, I’m at Fosters Freeze with Louis and some friends. There is a person with a fancy camera, and kind of a video camera, too, walking around Fosters Freeze. It’s also night. We were like, “This is so weird. What are they doing?” We kept being like, “Maybe they’re going to take … Maybe they’re a photographer.” It’s got all that neon stuff on it, and we could not figure it out. And I kept saying, “I feel like they’re location scouting to use this for something.” They’re at Fosters Freeze in this episode of The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: When this scene started, did you go …

Analyssa: Yes! All caps. Maybe I was at this Fosters Freeze when they were location scouting. I was shocked.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: It was also a cool hip person who looked-

Drew: Gay?

Analyssa: Queer.

Riese: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: And so then I was like, “Well, maybe.”

Riese: Yeah. It was either there scouting for this or Warrior Nun.

Drew: In this moment, Bette is being very level-headed, and Tina is like, “I want to murder him.”

Riese: Right. And Bette’s like, “We can’t kill another black man on this show. It’s just-”

Analyssa: We’ve reached-

Riese: We reached capacity.

Analyssa: We’ve done too many already, actually.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Tina’s like, “I feel like we’re losing Angie.” And Bette’s like, “We are, and that’s good.” And Bette Porter, the growth. It’s really incredible.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I do feel like they need to have a conversation with Angie about this, that’s gentle and patient, and understanding that she’s not going to get it. And telling her that she’s too young to understand it is the worst way.

Drew: Yeah. Maybe privately, too.

Riese: Privately, yeah. A private conversation. But I like that Bette is like, “This is what happens. They grow up.”

Drew: And then they’re being all cute and ordering food while having a little bit of PDA. Okay. A potentially toxic trait of mine is, despite being a 29 year old transsexual, there is a part of me that, in this moment, was thinking about Alice saying, “Things were so different back then. You don’t understand.” Which, in that moment it’s like, “Come on, Alice.”

But then when watching Bette and Tina be all over each other as somewhat older lesbians ordering a burger, there was a moment where I was like, “They couldn’t act like this during the original series.” And there was something … My heart was a little bit warmed.

Riese: Yeah. I still had that knee jerk that I still have from being alive then, where I was like, “Oh, my God. You can’t touch each other in public.”

Analyssa: Yeah. I had the same reaction where I was like, “Oh, my God. They’re going to get yelled at or something.”

Riese: Yeah, “What are you doing?”

Analyssa: Yeah. And then I had the moment, I was like, “Oh, yeah.”

Riese: And then it was, “Oh, right. It’s fine. We’re okay now. Everything’s fine.”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I still-

Riese: I mean, not everything’s fine. But-

Drew: I still don’t do that with my partner in front of people. Which maybe I could, I don’t know. It’s perception of safety, and actual safety. I mean, it’s so whatever. That’s a whole conversation. But-

Riese: But, yeah. That was cute.

Drew: It was just something I clocked as we go back to Alice then looking for PJ with chicken on a string, and it’s like, “I get it. It’s karma.” But karma shouldn’t hurt cats, and then meow, cats in the tree. And that-

Riese: Well, I have two things to say about this scene. The first one is that the most entitled thing Alice does this episode is stand in the middle of the street as if she’s not going to be run over.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: She stands in the middle of the street.

Analyssa: She climbs into someone else’s bushes.

Riese: The second thing is that as soon as I saw her kitten in a tree, I thought, “She’s going to need a firefighter to get that kitten down. And I know exactly who that firefighter is going to be.”

Analyssa: I wasn’t as fast. I wasn’t-

Riese: Really? Did you guys think that?

Drew: I watched this with Elise, and from early this episode, she was like, “Tasha’s going to come back.” And I was like, “What?” And then when the cat’s missing, she was like, “Tasha’s-” Was so on it, and I kept being like, “I really think it’s going to be Taylor. I really think that, based on the previously on, Taylor’s going to be the person who comes back at the end.”

Analyssa: I kept thinking Taylor was going to pop up, too. Why do you guys have such good spidey senses for this shit?

Drew: Well, I don’t. Elise has-

Analyssa: I do not.

Riese: I mean, because I had thought before, “How could they bring Tasha back, and have her be in a job that’s not a cop, but is still, you can believe that she got to this job in her journey of not being a cop?” And it was firefighter, and also that’s really hot to be a firefighter. That works. We love this for her. But also, they did talk about her in that last episode in a way that-

Analyssa: I knew before I saw her face, but I did not know until firefighters arrived, and I was like, “Oh!”

Riese: No. I was like, “Kitten in the tree. Here we go. Here we go! here we go!” But also, she called 911, and she’s like, “It’s an emergency. I mean, it’s actually not an emergency.” But I was like, “Good. Finally someone gets to talk to 911 operator just like everyone’s been screaming to do all season.”

Drew: Yeah, that was the most unrealistic thing. Unfortunately, the next scene is Angie going to Hendrix and he’s like-

Riese:
I thought it was, at first, because they show a box, and someone putting things in the box, I thought it was their dorm room, and Bella was moving out.

Analyssa: I did, too.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: And I was like …

Analyssa: I did not think she was going back to talk to Hendrix at all. I thought she was going home, and when she says, I think one of her first lines was like, “I’m sorry.” Or something. And I was like, “Oh, she’s saying she’s sorry to Bella for exploding at her.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: No, she’s-

Riese: It’s that man.

Drew: It’s that man, and he’s like, “I didn’t need to get fired. I quit because I want to work on my novel.” Or whatever.

Riese: No one wants to read your novel, and also, you have two weeks left in the semester. What are you doing? You fucking moron.

Analyssa: Also, just like, what a jerk.

Riese: Yeah, what an idiot.

Analyssa: So many people would want this job. To be like, “I quit, and I’ve been thinking this job is not even right for me anyway, because I’m going to write a book.” Okay, cool.

Riese: Yeah. Your first book did so well, whatever. You can’t drop out to work full-time on your book unless you already have a book deal.

Drew: Or come from money.

Riese: Or come from money, which I don’t know. I don’t know anything about this man. All I know is that Angie, for some reason, still wants to sleep with him, and even after their toxic conversation, she still wants to bone this man.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. Because basically he says, “I’ve resigned.” And so she’s like, “Well then, let’s get after it.”

Riese: And literally not one person cheered at home for that.

Drew: I mean, again, I do think now that the show’s acknowledged it, I mean, I would rather them do other things now because this has gone on for far too long. But I at least feel slightly better in my brain and my heart, because they’ve acknowledged that it’s wrong.

Riese: Yeah. Even Shane mentioned the guys. She was like, “How old is he? Is he like 27?” That’s when she was like, “You guys are hypocrites.” And I was like, “Fair.” But also, when I was 18, and I told my mom I was dating a 27 year old, she said, “Well, you’ve always been very mature for your age.”

Drew: But that’s the thing, is that it didn’t feel-

Riese: And I thought, “You’re right. I have been. So true.”

Drew: It didn’t feel, especially given how everything blew up, thank you, Tina. It didn’t feel unrealistic that she’d still be hung up on this guy. She also lost her virginity to him, which virginity is whatever, but it is as constructed in our society, does have a thing, is a thing.

Riese: I mean, I think she’s in a bad relationship that has weird toxic dynamics, and she doesn’t know the difference yet between being in love and being in something that makes you feel crazy because it’s crazy.

Analyssa: Despite having dated someone for two years, which is right a little bit-

Drew: Right. They’re just pretending Jordy, her cisgender girlfriend of the past, doesn’t … And we’re going to go along with them, I guess.

Analyssa: Okay. Carrie and Misty are watching more Grey’s Anatomy. I just want to say, they’ve skipped like four seasons in the interim. I don’t want to go into the specifics, but the things they were talking about in the morning, and the things they’re talking about in the evening, at least as far as I remember, having watched it twice, happened about four seasons apart.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Two to four seasons apart.

Drew: Maybe they’re chaotic TV watchers, and they’re like, “No, no. Actually, let’s skip forward to my favorite season of the show.”

Analyssa: They’ve got the episodes on shuffle. She’s just picking up random-

Riese: Right. Or Carrie was picking up that Misty didn’t seem to it that much, and then was like, “Well, let’s go forward to this other season.” Maybe you’ll like that part better. And it’s like you care so deeply. It’s like giving birth in front of somebody, showing them a show you like. I just really appreciated this representation that I felt was really true to my life, my lesbian life. Going on a hike, watching Hulu, making out, and talking about our feelings as a typical weekend day.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Accurate.

Riese: Accurate.

Analyssa: Lovely.

Riese: A juice involved in there somewhere. I don’t know, some water.

Drew: Maybe even some clear water if you’re lucky.

Riese: Maybe even some clear water for as a treat.

Analyssa: Yeah. The magnitude of all that Carrie has been through this week has finally hit her, and she starts crying while they’re making out.

Drew: Yeah. Well, I think first, Misty’s hands starts to go down towards genitalia, and I don’t know why I said it like that. I’m just so used to being-

Riese: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Gregory.

Drew: I’m so used to talking about trans people, and not knowing what language someone likes.

Analyssa: Misty’s hand started to get sexy.

Drew: Yeah, thank you.

Riese: Heavy petting below the waist.

Drew: I don’t know if any of that’s sexier.

Riese: Groin area, crotch.

Analyssa: You don’t think below the waist is sexier than genitalia?

Drew: No, heavy petting.

Riese: Heavy petting is-

Drew: It’s still sexier than-

Analyssa: I think genitalia has to be the least sexy option.

Drew: I mean, my notes just say, “Carrie moves Misty’s hand down.”

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Drew:
Yeah, and Misty says-

Riese: Down where?

Analyssa: Well, exactly.

Riese: Towards what?

Analyssa: Towards what, Drew?

Drew: Genitalia. Misty says, “Are you sure?”

Riese: Genitalia.

Drew: And Carrie says yes, and then starts to cry. And I also appreciated that representation of, sometimes sex is vulnerable, and opens some things up, and you’ve been needing to have a cry, and it happens when you’re feeling safe with someone and having some sex. But then, yeah, Carrie talks about it all hitting her, and then they keep making out, and they keep going.

Analyssa: And Misty says neither of them are going anywhere, which is very sweet.

Riese: Yeah. That was really nice.

Drew: I love it.

Riese: And they start hooking up, and then the camera goes away, and that’s fine. I know Rosie didn’t want to do a sex scene, and so I’ll allow it.

Drew: It’s so fine. It is, once again, why there should be more butch characters. There should be more fat characters.

Riese: Older characters.

Drew: Yeah. It’s the thing where you’re like, it’s fine that Micah and Maribel are boring, and want to go to sleep by 9:00 PM or whatever. That’s totally fine for those characters. It’s just questionable when it’s like, why is your trans character, and why is your disabled character the ones that are boring? In this case it’s fine. I mean this season, we don’t see anyone have sex, so it’s really not even that different. But it’s like we all know, we’ve said it.

Analyssa: Speaking of not going anywhere.

Riese: We go to Bette and Tina, outside of Frosty’s, and Tina’s like, “What if we just got married and had a party for our friends?” And I just want to say that they already did get married, and I don’t understand again, are we supposed to … Because if you’ve already been married, isn’t the conversation that you would start about wanting to get married, maybe acknowledge that you’re being remarried?

Drew: Will we get remarried?

Riese: Remarried, because they’ve already been divorced. I went back and I checked, and this is not something we made up in our heads. They got divorced. They were married.

Drew: Yeah. I do know people who have broken up after long periods of time, and had a life together, and referred to it as a divorce, even if it wasn’t an official divorce.

Riese: I think they were engaged at the end of season six though, weren’t they?

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. And also they’re normies.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. And they had a kid, they would’ve gotten married. They were married.

Drew: They would’ve gotten married the moment it was legal.

Riese: Yeah. They would’ve gotten married in 2015, I guess.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Oh, Riese, remember when we were at that pride right after gay marriage got legalized in San Francisco?

Riese: Yeah. That was so sweet.

Analyssa: And everyone was so happy.

Riese: Everyone was so happy.

Analyssa: A lot of people there probably got married, really.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I got engaged, I think if maybe a week later. And as you can see, it worked out.

Drew: Gay people shouldn’t get married?

Analyssa: This just in …

Riese: But, anyway-

Drew: Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Riese: Right. Tina turns around, and Bette already has a ring. She’s like, “This is what I was going to do at dinner.” And that checks out, and that’s cute. And I may have teared up against my will.

Drew: I was happy for them. I mean, it’s so funny how Bette went from being a character who I cared so much about, to, “I don’t really care about Bette Porter anymore, but I’m happy for them.” I truly feel like they feel like relatives of mine, where I’m just like, “We are never going to see eye to eye on a lot of things, and you’re doing your own little thing off to the side, and I wish you the best.” But there’s still a love there, and Godspeed.

Analyssa: Yeah. I feel the way about them as I do about some of my high school teachers, who I was deeply obsessed with in a, can’t really explain, kind of way. And now that I’m an adult, I can explain some of it, but I’m also just happy for them. I don’t feel that intensely about them, but I did once, and so I always want them to be happy, and I beam when they beam.

Riese: I mean, I loved them in this episode, and I thought it was nice that it showed you don’t have to have a couple be breaking up to have them have conflicts. And this was pretty sweet. And then, kindly, Bette had arranged for fireworks to go off in the sky at this exact moment.

Analyssa: If they’re where I think they are, that just means the Dodgers just won a game.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: That part checked out to me. There are always just random fireworks going off in LA.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Sometimes it times out. Then we go to Dre singing, and a little montage, and you know what? Dani’s instincts off of that one karaoke performance were correct, because Dre is actually quite good.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: Did I feel as though Dre’s song was written by the house band?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Because it had the same vibes as a lot of the music that’s been in. I wonder if that was really Carmen singing.

Analyssa: They have backup singers, which is just-

Riese: Right. Yeah, they do have-

Analyssa: There’s so much that they’ve done in-

Riese: They have a drummer.

Analyssa: They’ve done so much in 45 minutes.

Riese: I know. Right. Also, I think we’re meant to believe this is the song that Dre was writing this morning, right?

Analyssa: Yes, correct.

Riese: And now they’re ready to perform in an Alice show?

Analyssa: Yes. Absolutely.

Riese: Amazing. Honestly, a prodigy, and they deserve all the fame and wealth in the world. And Sophie and Dani are so proud of themselves, and that’s cute.

Drew: And then Finley hears Misty and Carrie fucking, and starts to look for apartments, which is the right move.

Riese: No, it’s not. It’s a terrible move.

Drew: Oh, I guess it’s not a right move financially, but did-

Riese: She’s poor.

Analyssa: She owes-

Riese: She wants to go back to school.

Analyssa: She insists-

Riese: She wants to pay Alice back for rehab.

Analyssa: She insists that she owes Alice money for rehab.

Riese: You have a parental figure who’s like, “You can stay and live in my wonderful beautiful house for free, indefinitely.” If you were going back to school-

Drew: But did Carrie say that?

Riese: I mean, I think it’s implied.

Drew: Okay. I guess I was thinking more of-

Riese: That Carrie might want her own space?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, that’s fair.

Drew: That Finley’s kind of imposing. But I mean, I’ve looked at apartments. It’s not great out there, let me tell you.

Riese: Right. But I’m sure that Googling LA apartments is definitely your first step in finding one.

Drew: I think Finley needs to go on one of those Facebook groups that’s queer housing, and find a house with three roommates, and do that.

Riese: Right. Yeah. I’m just like, “You just bought a car. You have a whole room.”

Drew: Oh, yeah. That, I don’t know how to-

Riese: You know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But I have a feeling that they’re going to have Finley getting her own apartment next. Maybe I just want her to live with Carrie because I like their-

Drew: Well, it’s fun. Yeah, for sure.

Riese: Yeah. I love the chosen family vibes.

Analyssa: We get a classic end of an L Word episode montage for a minute, which is Angie and Hendrix have done it, great.

Riese: Oh, that was them getting redressed?

Analyssa: Yeah, I think so.

Riese: I thought she was watching him get undressed, and I was so upset.

Drew: No, I thought it was redressed.

Analyssa: No, I think it’s redressed. Tess is drinking at Dana’s and dancing dance sound by herself.

Riese: Dancing?

Drew: Looks like this.

Riese: She’s like, “I love bars.”

Drew: Yeah. Looks like the scene that makes no sense from euphoria when it was very stylized, alone in the bar, dancing.

Riese: Right. She’s done this before.

Analyssa:
Yes, this exact thing.

Drew: Oh, I don’t remember that.

Riese: I don’t know if she was alone. I think patrons were there, but it was where she was drunk and dancing, wearing-

Analyssa: And it was an overhead shot, I feel like it. It was so similar.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Were we supposed to take cinematic parallels from that? I don’t know what they were-

Riese: The parallel is that they’re doing the same bad storyline twice, I guess. Shane’s packing.

Drew: Oh, I thought Shane was smelling Tess’s clothes. Or she’s smelling her own clothes?

Riese: Or she’s packing Tess’s clothes.

Analyssa: I think she’s packing Tess’s clothes up, and smelling the dress remorsefully.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right. Okay.

Analyssa: Sure. And then we get two more scenes, which is post show Dre is packing their stuff out of Dani’s apartment, and is like, “I have to leave, because what I said this morning is true.” And their-

Riese: I’m falling for you.

Analyssa: Their whole agreement has been that they’re going to do something casual. Dre’s basically like, “If you don’t feel the same, I got to get out of here so that I don’t get hurt.”

Drew: I do think sometimes you just got to give people time. People have walls. Clearly Dani’s fault. I get it. People are so concerned with, I don’t know. Watching it with Elise, she was like, “I was glad that you waited and let me say I love you first, or else I probably would’ve gotten freaked out.” It became a joke where I was waiting, and she knew I was waiting.

Riese: Would you be like, “I really like you so much.” Before hanging up the phone?

Drew: Yeah. It was like whatever, and then when Elise said I love you for the first time, I said, “I love you too. I win!” I shouted, “I win.” I think I said I love you too before I said I win.

Riese: Do you guys usually say it first? Or not first?

Drew: That was the first time I’d ever not said it first. Yeah. I always say it first. And this is a fun fact, a podcast exclusive. I don’t think Elise would care of me saying this. She said it to me when we were making Stir Fry, and I went, “You know, you said it to me when we were making stir fry.” And she was like, “Yeah, so?” I was like, “I don’t know, stir fry’s kind of a thing in the lesbian community because of Bette and Tina having sex with the-” And she was like, “I take it back.” No, she didn’t say that. But-

Analyssa: She’s like, “I want off. Thank you.”

Riese: She’s like, “Just kidding, actually.”

Drew: Love feeding.

Riese: Yeah. Anyway, I think Dre’s being stupid. I think that-

Drew: But I think Dani does love them, and is going to say I love you.

Riese: Yeah, I mean, also, it’s been two weeks.

Drew: Calm down. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Calm down. They’re the one who has a sort of girlfriend back in Ohio. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah. And also, this conversation could just be … I mean this is The L Word, and this is the kind of stuff I like being mad about.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Analyssa: And this defies human behavior, but in a fun way. They could have just been like, “I said something kind of crazy. You don’t have to say that back, but I’m very in this actually. I know we said it was going to be casual. It’s not.” That’s really all the conversation needs to be. But I love the drama anyway, and yeah, Dani is falling, clearly..

Drew: Hard. Can we get a reveal?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Right. Then we go back to the mean streets of Los Angeles, and all the firefighters are there, and they got Alice, her kitten, out of a tree, and then those lights kind of come up.

Analyssa: As the lights started coming up, I said …

Riese: Yeah, and you see her hair. Because also, they had her holding the kitten with gloves on, and it was only from chest, down. And I was like, “It’s Tasha! It’s Tasha!” And then it went around, and then-

Analyssa: I watched this episode at 2:00 in the morning, and I gasped so loudly that I was worried I would wake you and Elise, or Alex. I was like, “I still don’t know how sound travels in our home after two years of living in it.” And I was like, “They heard me.” Then Tasha has returned, and they have, to me, some of the most delightful banter I’ve ever encountered.

Drew: They are immediately bickering. It’s great.

Riese: I know. Alice was like, “This is so annoying.” And this was what they were always fighting about. But I was like, this is interesting that Tasha’s back, because Tasha was the one who was there for her during the Daryl Brewer round one, and who also was like, “This was terrible. What were you thinking?”

Analyssa: Right. Was supportive, but also had a voice of reason.

Riese: Yeah. They literally broke up over it and got back together. In my imagination, when I first realized Tasha’s going to be in this episode, I wanted them to immediately go to each other, start making out, then we have a sex scene. I was ready. I was completely shocked that they were going to actually start it with them immediately fighting.

Drew: It was very funny. I really appreciated that as it’s like, “Oh, the lighting. The reveal.” And then it was like, “Oh, my God!” So funny. And then the very final moment is the extra eating the chicken. The chicken that was on the string, because she hands it to the extra.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “Here, it’s good.”

Drew: And I don’t remember the last thing she says to Tasha.

Riese: I do.

Analyssa: They bicker, and then Alice is like, “Fuck this, I’m leaving. I don’t need this.”

Riese: Right. After she walks them down, she thanks all of the firefighters for their service, pressing company excluded. It was so funny.

Analyssa: Yes. And then she’s like, “All right. I’m going back home.” And then Tasha’s like, “Alice, wait.” And I was like … And she goes, “There’s paperwork.”

Riese: But there’s a moment when she says Alice. She turns around, and her face is wide open and hopeful. And there’s also a part … Did I wash this four times? Yes. It turns out I’m deeply invested in Alice and Tasha in a way that I had forgotten. But there’s a part when Alice is talking to the firefighters, when Tasha’s smiling and watching, like, “Here she goes.” And not in an antagonistic way.

Drew: Yeah. But then after there’s paperwork in the background, the extra-

Analyssa: The extra is just eating the thing that-

Drew: Ate the chicken, and took one big bite, and had wide eyes watching the thing. And I was like, “Excellent work. Shout out to that extra.”

Riese: I also was like, “There’s a man filming their conversation, too.”

Drew: I was worried about that.

Riese: I was like, “Alice, what are you doing? This is not a good look either. You’re yelling at a firefighter.”

Analyssa: Well, because she’s like, “You don’t-”

Riese: You can’t yell at a firefighter.

Analyssa: Any firefighter. Even if you know them, the context won’t matter. But she was like, “Everyone knows that I’m having a bad day. Everyone in the world knows that I’m having a bad day.” And Tasha’s like, “Absolutely not. I know nothing about what you’re doing.”

Drew: It is such a good choice to have Tasha back, for many reasons. But one is because she was the one who would always call Alice out on being like, “You live in a bubble.” And so, now-

Riese: I really hope she’s in. In the episode description for the next episode, which will be out by the time we-

Drew: She has to be in the next-

Riese: It says, “Alice discovers the one is closer than she thinks.” Or something like that.

Drew: It’s got to be Tasha, right?

Riese: I mean, it’s either Tasha, or it’s Shane. Right?

Drew: That’d be wild.

Riese: I think-

Analyssa: Imagine.

Riese: I mean, what? Tess? Sophie? Closer than-

Analyssa: Right. Closer than you think is, they’re around, they’re in your orbit right now.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I mean, yeah.

Riese: If Tasha’s not in the next episode, I am going to actually physically cry.

Drew: I would be really sad. I guess Taylor’s just not a thing. I really thought that Taylor was going to be a thing.

Analyssa: Okay. You can have Bella having a crush on Angie, but you will not have-

Drew: Well, no. I was wrong. I was so wrong.

Analyssa: Taylor and Alice didn’t really break up.

Drew: I know. I know. I’m not-

Riese: But I guess that was leading to this sort of-

Drew: Right.

Riese: That she’s living in a bubble, and she’s not understanding what she’s doing.

Analyssa: So then-

Drew: And that’s the episode-

Analyssa: That was the episode.

Riese: They have so much to do next week. How?

Analyssa: There are so many balls in the air.

Riese: Bette and Tina getting married.

Drew: They’re going to get married next episode? I guess so.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The big event.

Riese: The big event.

Drew: Do you know what would be great?

Riese: Huh?

Drew: Another time jump. It’s been a month.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: We’re past the wedding.

Riese: Tasha and Alice are wedding dates.

Drew: And Hendrix is going to be Angie’s date, drops out. Angie needs a date. Bella volunteers.

Riese: Yeah, Bella steps in. Yeah.

Drew: What other storylines?

Riese: Well, the-

Drew: Shane’s opened her salon.

Riese: The storyline is-

Analyssa: Finley and Sophie hook up at the reception.

Riese: Yes. So it’s like-

Drew: Should we do fan fiction? No more podcasts.

Riese: The description was something like, “Shane and Sophie try to break old patterns. Micah and Maribel take a first step on their road to parenthood. Finley takes a big step as an adult.” Or something. I assume that’s getting an apartment. I don’t think the descriptions say anything about Bette and Tina, but we all know that they’re going to get married, because other bloggers have talked about that. But I’m just like, “How are they going to do all of this?”

Drew: Do we know if it’s the same length as the usual episodes?

Analyssa: I was going to say, extra chunky episode.

Riese: Hopefully it’s longer.

Analyssa: Let’s go.

Riese: I’m ready for an hour 20 minute episode.

Analyssa: It’s Showtime. They can do it.

Drew: Given how long it took them to renew season three, I don’t know if the ratings have been astronomically better.

Riese: They haven’t.

Drew: But most networks have been cutting costs. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next episode of The L Word is the last episode of The L Word, until The L Word: Old Folks Home, or whatever the next generation of reboots is.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I know.

Drew: I think that’s a real… It’s so…

Riese: I think, logically, they should renew it, because if you’re talking about wanting to get new subscribers for a streaming network, lesbians will sign up for your network.

Drew: Yeah. If people who made decisions recognized how much money they could make off of gay people, they would make different business decisions than they do.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: It’s true.

Riese: Last season, by the time we got to episode 208, we were like, “This show is terrible, and I never want to see it again.” But they really had a big comeback this week.

Analyssa: This was a strong comeback.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The thing I was just thinking about is, I don’t know how Showtime works, but I know in my day job that sometimes if an episode comes in short earlier in the season, you can buy time for episodes later in the season.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Analyssa: And the musical episode was super short.

Riese: It was.

Analyssa: Relative to the rest of them. I’m thinking … I don’t know if that has anything to do with that. We’ve had that sometimes where writers and producers will want a show to be extra long, and we’re like, “Well, you have to lose it from other episodes.” Or they’ll turn in a really short episode, and be like, “This is great. Because it means we have a few more minutes for something else.”

Riese: Interesting.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. It’s-

Riese: Are Gigi-

Analyssa: Oh, yeah. Is Gigi going to come back?

Riese: Is Gigi coming back? That’s the other thing. Now I’m like, “They don’t even have time for that.” Because next, they have to do something with Angie and Bella next time. Right? They have to something with Alice and Tessa, for me, personally.

Drew: I mean, Micah and Maribel can literally, their storyline, something happens in five seconds. I bet they get five seconds of the episode.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I guess they don’t have to do anything with Carrie and Misty. That’s a bummer. But there’s nothing up in the air there. They have something to do with Finley. Dani and Dre have to decide what they’re doing. Sophie will obviously have a storyline. I don’t really know what the question mark is. But-

Riese: Yeah. It’s whatever it is, trying to break old patterns.

Drew: What I find frustrating is-

Riese: Air pollution?

Drew: What? I do find air pollution frustrating.

Analyssa: The cost of living in Los Angeles?

Drew: Oh, God. 100 and whatever dollars on groceries today just killed me.

Riese: Yeah, everything costs like $20 now.

Drew: I don’t know how I’m going to… Anyways, that’s not what I was talking about. What I was talking about is the fact that if I felt more assurance that, I don’t know, A League of Their Own was coming back for a second season, or some other shows that I like that have queer characters on them, and not just queer characters on them, but are queer centric. If I had more faith that they were continuing, that new ones were coming, I would say, “I think it’s maybe time.”

I think a lot of the problems that Gen Q has is a product of trying to make up for the past, move forward, encompass all these different generations, all these different identities. And if the season finale next episode is a really strong season finale with a Bette, Tina wedding, it sort of does feel like it’s important to know when to say goodbye, and that feels right.

The only problem is, as much as it drives me nuts, the media landscape has changed a lot since the original L Word. But when it comes to an ensemble show of queer characters, I mean Queer as Folk got canceled. We don’t really have it. And so, that is the only thing that’s like a real bummer.

Riese: Yeah. It’s also a bummer because Showtime is one of the only networks that realizes that advertising your lesbian show to a lesbian audience, through a lesbian website, is a really good idea. Because no one else seems to…

Analyssa: Want to be interested in that?

Riese: Including Queer as Folk.

Drew: Queer as Folk didn’t advertise at all.

Riese: I feel like they’re on bus stops.

Drew: And dropped all the episodes at once. I mean, all these fucking networks just set their shows up to fail. Imagine if A League of Their Own was released weekly, the hold it would’ve had on… I mean, we have Yellowjackets and stuff. That’s-

Riese: Yeah. But also, what are they doing now? How are all these actors and writers going to fit this into their schedule? They’ve been waiting a year, basically, to see if they’re going to be renewed. This doesn’t make sense.

Anyway, I’m excited for next week. They have a lot of work to do, and unfortunately, on my press account, episode 10 was there. And then I guess they changed their mind and took it back, and now I just think, “God, I wish I’d watched it.” But I hadn’t even watched this one yet. Now I just have to sit here not knowing, and it hurts deeply.

Lauren: Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back, Generation Q edition. One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. And you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the Talented Beast Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two a’s and on Twitter @analoca_ with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this EP, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1. Quirky.

Analyssa: Quibi.

Riese: Quintessential.

Drew: I said quirky. I don’t have a reason why, but if you give me a second, I’m sure I could justify it. Who was the quirkiest character this episode?

Riese: Alice.

Analyssa: It’s almost always Alice.

Drew: Alice in the little Evil Knievel… yeah.

Analyssa: I want to see her ride that little bike so bad. I said Quibi. RIP to Quibi.

Drew: Oh, wow. RIP Quibi.

Riese: Oh, Quibi. Wow, that was a lark.

Analyssa: Yeah, wasn’t it?

Riese: I said quintessential because it’s quintessential.

Drew: I could not agree more, Riese.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: Thank you.

Drew: It’s about time someone say it.

Analyssa: That was brave of you.

Riese: I wanted to be brave today, and after Shane pitched her salon to Tess, I thought if Shane could do that, I can do anything. I can have a salon.

Analyssa: You could.

Riese: Yeah. Thank you so much for all your time. I don’t know who I’m talking to, you guys, Carol, the audience, the listeners, the fans, the lovers, the dreamers.

Analyssa: The haters.

Riese: The haters. Yeah. If you hate us, thank you.

Drew: You’re listening. And at the end of the day—

Analyssa: That’s what matters to us.

Riese: That’s what matters to us. That’s what mattered to Alice.

To L and Back: Generation Q Podcast 308: Let’s Drop a Turkey

In case you’re family drama-ed out after all of the winter holidays that just passed, The L Word is here to provide a fresh supply! And this one is a doozy. It’s Thanksgiving at Dana’s, and Finley’s mom has arrived! Sadly, she did not bring a green bean casserole, just a bad attitude.

All roads lead to Dana’s in this episode, as it becomes the go-to location for Dani and Dre, who are spending the holiday together, Carrie and Misty, who are turkey trotting, and the entire Suarez family who are still mashing potatoes upon arrival.

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SHOW NOTES

+ Honestly this episode was light on references but please read Riese’s recap of 308!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: Wow. We all sound like we’re at a funeral.

Riese: In a way, we are.

Analyssa: But isn’t it nice that we all just nailed our intro to our show that we’ve done a hundred times and yet mess up every time?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah. Well, it’s easier now because we’re in person again.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: That is true.

Drew: Yeah. I’m sorry for last week, when, I think… I want to say that something went wrong with my recorder, but I think I maybe just didn’t hit record in the beginning.

Riese: Ooh.

Drew: It was between Christmas and New Year’s. I’m very sorry.

Analyssa: Drew’s going to have to post a notes app apology.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. The holidays are done. I think that’s part of it. It’s really rainy here.

Riese: It’s raining right now.

Analyssa: The holidays are over. I had to go back to work this week. Hopefully, Lauren can edit out the rain.

Riese: I know. I was wondering.

Analyssa: Like they did for the Fletcher episode that apparently filmed in the rain.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: Did it really?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: That’s brave of them.

Analyssa: Yeah. Well, they probably had a really small budget, and they were like, “We’re filming today or else we’re never filming again.”

Drew: Yeah. We only have Fletcher for one day.

Riese: We only have Fletcher for one day so… I actually think it was two days that she worked.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: Carol, stop licking yourself. Carol…

Drew: Carol just looked up so like, “Who? Me?”

Riese: She was caught. I mean, sorry. I know that’s what dogs do. And that’s her right, as a dog.

Drew: Sure. We will not cancel you for shaming dogs for their dog-ness. Well, this is an episode of the Gen Q.

Riese: Television.

Analyssa: Of The L Word.

Drew: Yeah. It’s episode 308. It is called Quality Family Time. It’s directed by Em Weinstein who really has directed most of the season, and written by Allie Romano who has written on Gen Q since the beginning and wrote on The Upshaws. I think we can start by saying that this was none of our favorite episodes of the show.

Riese: No. Definitely not.

Analyssa: Definitely not.

Drew: But I have a theory to keep us all a little bit lighter…

Riese: Okay.

Drew: …which is that we spend a lot of time thinking about this television show, and-

Analyssa: I’ve heard this theory.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: I was like, “Where could this possibly be going?” And I remember I live with Drew.

Drew: But, okay, so this theory has extra support, which is that… So I’ve been watching The Best Man: The Final Chapters. And it, weirdly enough, is very similar to the third season of The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Huh.

Drew: Because the first two episodes feel like a separate mini season. There’s an ayahuasca thing.

Riese: Wow. Big year for ayahuasca.

Drew: There’s one nonbinary character.

Analyssa: Big ayahuasca is like—

Drew: Because every reboot needs a nonbinary character.

Riese: Right.

Drew: And, well, I don’t know if we can talk about the end of the episode, but, basically, the third to last episode of both the third season of Gen Q, this episode we’re about to talk about, and the third to last episode of The Best Man: The Final Chapters both end with a character having a heart attack.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: Wow.

Drew: And I was like, it’s very real, but they also are both not very-

Riese: Good?

Drew: Yeah. Not very well written, not very whatever. And I’m having a great time watching that show, because I don’t have to take notes on it, don’t have to do anything for it.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: I’m on my phone. I’m doing other things. I’m getting some work done. Gen Q, I’m taking detailed notes. And it results in it being a pretty miserable experience, when an episode is like this. But, if you’re watching it with friends, chatting, on your phone, doing work, maybe you’re having a great time. And I love that for you.

Analyssa: Right. Elise was excited to catch up on The L Word: Gen Q.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: She’s like…

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. She caught up, after watching the musical episode. And, I mean, she’s playing solitaire on her phone. It’s on in the background.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: She’s having a great time.

Riese: I mean, I think about that a lot. Because I think about watching the original series and how, when I was watching season two for the first time, I did not think one critical thought about it.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And then, when I was re-watching it with Carly, for the podcast, I was like, “This is…” I just accepted the whole Marc and Gomey storyline with the cameras as part of the program. And I was there for whatever it had to give me. But I also think about this, from watching Elité, which I’ve brought up before, that, I’m like, “Wow. This is such a disaster.” But I don’t care.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I think I personally spend so much time thinking about this series that I think I get really frustrated. But I really want to be funny.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: I want to be hilarious.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: You know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: So, hopefully, I don’t know if I can not complain, but…

Drew: No. No. No.

Riese: …I can try to complain in…

Analyssa: In a fun way.

Riese: A humorous way.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Maybe.

Drew: What a fun challenge.

Riese: Oh, this might be a complain cast.

Drew: Yeah. Well, let’s get into it.

Riese: Welcome to And Another Thing.

Drew: So we start with Carrie asking Finley if she’s sexting Sophie. And Finley says…

Finley: What? No. No one says sexting.
Carrie: No one?
Finley: No!

Analyssa: I’ve never received that memo.

Riese: What do people say instead?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: Just texting? You just don’t talk about it? That can’t be right.

Riese: People don’t sext anymore, maybe.

Drew: Oh, that can’t be true.

Riese: That can’t be true either.

Drew: I think people, I mean, if you know the new word that people are saying, we want to say…

Riese: Please let us know.

Drew: We want to stay cool.

Riese: Cause we want to say it. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: We want to say it. However, I was thrilled to discover that Finley and Sophie were indeed sexting.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Even though I know it’s unhealthy, I was like, yes.

Drew: Can I say something that reveals maybe something about me? Based on the last episode, I thought Finley was texting her mom and things were going well with her mom. And so the episode starts, Finley’s smiling and texting someone and Carrie’s like, it’s Sophie. And in my head I’m like, no, she’s getting along with her mom. That’s not where this was going. But that’s immediately what I thought.

Analyssa: Just in a big way. That’s not where this is going.

Drew: It’s truly not.

Riese: I just, I liked it because I feel like breakups are rarely as clean as they are on this show.

Drew: Fair.

Riese: Especially when you’re in the same social web. It’s not everyone… They don’t break up with Gigi and then Gigi just disappears. And we have no idea why or why she’s still listed on IMDb as being in every episode. It’s so confusing. Anyway,

Drew: And then Finley does a little teasing back about Carrie being in love with Misty. And then Carrie reveals that she and Misty have not had sex yet. And Carrie also says that she’s demisexual which does mean she loved Tina. So let’s just sit with that for a little bit.

Riese: Yeah, let’s all think about that. I will say that their relationship has lasted according to my timeline, five days. So it’s not out of the realm.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: Demisexual or not, I’m not sure.

Drew: Yeah. Absolutely.

Analyssa: I mean, Carrie and Tina were engaged to be wed. I would hope that they…

Drew: I was just making a little funny.

Analyssa: More critically to me. They’re going to do a Turkey Trot, which is just…

Riese: Gretchen does one every Thanksgiving.

Analyssa: Five days into a relationship, you would be hard pressed to catch me doing a Turkey… Any sort of…

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Physical activity? But on Thanksgiving of all…

Riese: Of all days.

Analyssa: On a holiday that I have off work? Simply no.

Drew: Yeah. We should say this is a Thanksgiving episode.

Analyssa: The holidays are over for us.

Drew: Which I was like… The L Word never had an Indigenous character, have they? If they have, remind me, but I was like, and we’re just going to… Then later in the episode, they address it with a brief land acknowledgement and go on their merry way talking about how great Thanksgiving is. But it is a Thanksgiving episode.

Riese: So Carrie and Misty go on their trot and then Finley spots Tess in the back room, which is where 75% of this episode takes place and goes back and they talk briefly about Tess’s mom, her being upset, whatever. And then Finley comes out and her mom shows up. Just like Cherie Jaffe. And just like depression just walks in the door.

Drew: Something else about that is Tess’s mom’s ashes are in that back…

Riese: In Dana’s. Or in Dana’s. Yeah. I’m going to steal them. Make us soup.

Drew: And Finley brags about not knowing anything about politics.

Analyssa: Can I just say one thing that is a complaint, but is a dumb one? I hated the shirts that Finley and Dre were wearing in this episode.

Riese: Oh, really? I liked Finley’s shirt.

Analyssa: I really… Maybe I didn’t hate it, I just was surprised that Finley would wear that.

Drew: Huh. I have to go back. I don’t remember them.

Analyssa: I don’t know. It just looked so business casual to me.

Riese: There were so many closeups of the shirt. I feel like never… Yeah.

Analyssa: I feel like the shirt was really on display.

Riese: I felt like the shirt was a character.

Drew: Season one, I was all about the high waisted pants. And since then I’ve really just not been paying as much attention to the fashion.

Analyssa: I know that this is a fancy event because Dana’s is hosting Thanksgiving dinner, so they’ve got, they have a Turkey cooking. There’s a whole…

Riese: This is abstract, this is all, sure.

Analyssa: Who knows? But they’re having a Thanksgiving dinner of some sort. So I know that it’s a dress up event, and that’s why Finley’s wearing this shirt. But I just was like, this looks like she’s working at the Alice Show as an executive. I don’t know. It just felt weird. Anyway.

Drew: We then go to the one part of the episode that had some enjoyable things, which is Dre is in bed with Dani and was talking about being excited for Thanksgiving. Dani is like, “is your ex going to be there?” But it’s said in a way that feels fairly light and a little bit…

Analyssa: Chill?

Drew: Yeah, and they’re making out, I don’t know. I like these two together. I do miss Gigi, but I might like these two more than Dani and Gigi.

Analyssa: Ooh, wow.

Drew: I miss Gigi.

Analyssa: Sure.

Drew: But I was never fully… I’ve said this, but I was very sold on those two characters and I liked watching them together, but I wasn’t like, oh my God, these are soulmates.

Riese: Oh, I loved them together. But I mean, these guys are cute together too. But then Dre’s flight was canceled, an experience which is relatable to many people. 2,300 Southwest flights were canceled. So that’s a lot of people. We can relate to this. So this is a really relatable episode, and that’s really important. There are people to have things they can connect with.

Analyssa: More critically. The email or text that Dre gets interrupts them kissing.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Right. Yeah. No one gets to make out on this show. I think we have. It’s, this is fucking Blues Clues now.

Analyssa: As soon as their lips started touching, I was like, okay, what’s going to stop it? What is it? What’s coming?

Riese: Yeah. An anvil? No it was a phone call or a flight alert.

Drew: And then we’re with Shane and Angie who are going to be helping at a food bank. They’re on the phone with Alice, who is with her mom, which makes me go, “oh, Alice isn’t going to be in this episode.”

Analyssa: Right. So now they’re even.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: This must have been in their contracts for this season.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Now, I’m like, this was something that they all kind of wanted or did not want but everyone had to have the same terms.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Because they’re all the same level in this cast, and they all got an episode off.

Riese: I was devastated because I think, as I said before in the pictures for 308, there were no pictures of Alice. And usually what that means is that they’re involved in a spoiler storyline. One that if there are any pictures of it, we would be…

Analyssa: Like when Dana came back.

Riese: Yeah, like when Dana came back.

Drew: You thought someone was something [inaudible 00:11:44]

Riese: So I thought Tasha was coming back and instead Alice is on the voicemail saying wherever she was, I didn’t even listen, ’cause I was annoyed. But also, I mean, I like Alice, so I wanted her to be an episode. I wanted Shane to be in the last episode, but…

Drew: I miss Gen Q Alice far more than I miss Gen Q Shane. I mean, I didn’t even notice until we were recording the podcast Shane wasn’t there, where as this, I was like, Alice is missing. Where is Alice?

Riese: And then they spot Hendrix.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Whatever the fuck, in Angie’s. But the funny part is that Angie’s like, that’s someone I used to date. And Shane’s like, which one? Because it’s like… So that was cool, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. I really did enjoy Shane Angie time together in this.

Analyssa: Yes. Yes. That’s really fun.

Drew: We go back to Dana’s. Tess is, oh god.

Analyssa: So they’re in the back room because Finley’s mom has arrived. And so Finley is kind of freaking out and Tess is like, I’ll ask her to leave.

Riese: But also…

Analyssa: I kind of think, maybe you should take this opportunity because we don’t know how much time we have with our loved ones, which…

Riese: I swear to God if no one ever says that on TV one more time. It’s such a generic… It’s such a fucking annoying platitude. Arguably. Also, we don’t know how much time we have left, so maybe you shouldn’t spend it with people who hate you..

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Analyssa: Finley says that she needs a minute and goes outside, and I thought that she was going to just bolt. I was just really ready for her to just be gone.

Riese: Steal someone’s bike again and just get on the road.

Drew: I will say that I wish we had more specifics about Finley’s mom and Finley’s family.

Analysssa: I have no more answers from when Finley’s mom arrived in the episode to the end of the episode where I’m like, oh, I understand this.

Riese: I think that there’s some things I understand a little bit more honestly, but I think the basics of what happened or basically remain that Finley was kicked out from being gay. But we also know that Finley went back for a summer that one time. So I don’t understand, how did that work out? And also Finley later says she likes her dad more their mom, so maybe they talk, I don’t know.

Drew: Also her mom says, that’s not what happened. Which maybe it is what happened, but I just…

Riese: Yeah. I thought it was what happened.

Drew: But I just mean, and things are complicated. It’s just interesting to live in that complication instead of kind of avoiding it.

Riese: Yeah. That’s a good note for the whole episode, I think.

Analyssa: Also in this back room Tess pours alcohol into a coffee mug in a subplot that I really just don’t want to talk about at all. I mean, it doesn’t really even actually become anything. It’s just running through the whole episode. Every time you see her with it in hand, you’re like, well, that’s bleak. And honestly, I think the whole episode could have happened exactly as it did without her drinking. Right. And it’s just really, again?

Riese: Again? Why? Why the relapse storyline? Also, it’s stupid. She’s walking around with that mug. She’s drinking out of it. People can smell things. Especially Finley in an unventilated back room. She wouldn’t be fooling anybody.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yep. It sucks.

Riese: And it’s just boring and I don’t care for it.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s not interesting storytelling on top of being just like…

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Cruel, kind of.

Riese: Yeah. It’s cruel and what did they even do with it?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I mean, is that why she dropped the turkey? Is that it? Because I can drop, I dropped three entrées on one girl at the Olive Garden and I was stone cold sober.

Analyssa: Instead of bolting, Finley calls Sophie and Sophie’s with her whole family for Thanksgiving.

Drew: And does something that is absolutely bonkers, which is say basically our Thanksgiving dinner is canceled. We are all going to Dana’s spend it with Finley, and then Micah does something which is bonkers, which is pops three weed gummies in his mouth, which… But is also, how much should I take? So it’s like, are you not… it’s not that, I mean, I don’t know what the dosages of those… It’s not like three is so crazy, but if he’s having to ask and they’re probably at least five, if not 10, who does that? Who goes, how many should I take? Bump, bump?

Riese: The crazy thing is he says, how many should I take? And Sophie said, “I don’t know, start with one.” And he immediately puts three in his mouth.

Drew: Which is also not Micah’s character at all. If Finley did that, then I’d be like, sure, that’s…

Riese: Right. Even Micah saying, I need to take the edge off. I was like, who are you?

Analyssa: Where did that come from?

Riese: What is going on? To what? To go talk to Finley. Also, what’s interesting is that I feel like Sophie and Finley in this episode finally showed the connection that they have that’s been missing. Now that they’re broken up for some reason now they’re actually being written normally again? The way that they care about each other and the way that Sophie, which is funny, I mean, they broke up and now Sophie’s literally moving her entire family dinner.

Drew: This is the first time I’ve ever actually seen the thing that was addressed, the musical episode, which is that Sophie’s life gets consumed with Finley. This is the first time I’m really seeing it.

Riese: Yeah, but it’s like now that Finley’s her friend, it’s okay or whatever, to which I would argue, well, maybe it’s just that you guys can’t be just friends and you should get back together so that I have something…

Analyssa: Well, you and Finley’s mom and grandma are… And Sophie’s mom and grandma are…

Riese: They’re betting money that they’re going to get back together. And then also Maribel.

Drew: Maribel’s going to propose. Her grandma loses the ring in the mashed potatoes somehow and then Sophie’s like we need to leave. But then it’s like, why would Sophie know that Mari was going to propose at Thanksgiving?

Riese: She doesn’t.

Drew: Well, I know she doesn’t, but why would she know that? They’re like, oh, close sisters. Right? Why would she not give a heads-up? So it makes no sense. Makes no sense.

Riese: If they think that the ring is in the mashed potatoes, why bring the mashed potatoes?

Analyssa: Why wouldn’t you leave the mashed potatoes at the house?

Drew: Also that. It doesn’t make sense.

Analyssa: The craziest thing to me is that this ring disappears like slight of hand. It’s like she hands it to her grandma then she looks up at her grandma and says, where is the ring? And her grandma’s like, what are you talking about? I have no idea. Where did it go?

Riese: When the actors got this script, do you think they sat and stared at each other? And they’re like, how…

Analyssa: So what did…

Riese: How are we going to pull this off?

Drew: If this script didn’t give several actors existential crises involved in the show then I don’t know what to say.

Analyssa: And it’s so funny for it to be over these really small things, but I was just sitting there staring at my screen like the ring… They think the ring fell, but it didn’t make a noise. So then where did it… It ends up just on the table under stuff, which means that somebody put it down. You would remember that.

Drew: Yeah, it makes no…

Analyssa: And if it, yeah, it fell on the… Whatever.

Drew: We then… there’s something else in this next scene, which it’s… Dre’s on the phone with the airline and trying to figure out how to get home for the holidays. And earlier they had mentioned that their mom makes stuffing with Saltines and Dani’s like problem solved, goes in the cupboard, takes out a box of Saltines. Which I asked, yes, this, the stuffing supposed to be incredible, but is the issue for Dre really the stuffing or is it seeing their family?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Yeah. Also, they still have to go to the store if they’re going to be making a whole Thanksgiving dinner.

Drew: I mean, they just make stuffing, but still do they have all the other things to make stuffing? I, it was, I just was like, I don’t know.

Riese: Also, Dani said she was going to do her Peloton and obviously that’s not going to fit into her schedule and that’s upsetting.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I know that travel this holiday season was a nightmare for many people. Not me though. Not to brag, but they don’t try very… It is wild that they’re like, well, there’s this flight. Oh, just kidding. It’s sold out or canceled or whatever. And then they’re like, well, guess that’s it.

Riese: I was ready for Dani to use her Delta Reserve Platinum Express card and call and get Dre on the flight.

Drew: I thought Dani was going to go home with Dre. That would’ve been fun too!

Riese: Budget. It’s not in the budget. It’s not in the budget.

Drew: At the very least, instead of it starting with Dre trying to figure out the airline stuff, it could have started with Dre hanging up the phone and going, I can’t get a flight.

Analyssa: And then I wouldn’t have all these questions.

Riese: Or my flight’s been delayed for two days, so it’s not worth it to go anymore.

Analyssa: They’re flying presumably on the holiday or the day before so it’s like…

Riese: It is the holiday.

Analyssa: So it’s like, which it’s not worth it anymore to try now that there’s just no way. So it’s an easy fix. It’s like, why am I quibbling over this?

Drew: It’s so easy. It’s just so small. There’s so much more room in the scene then for things that are actually interesting, if we don’t have the whole conversation about, “well, the eye of the storms in Chicago,” and it’s like…

Riese: The eye of the storm.

Drew: I just… It’s like it could have been so much… It just, it’s so wild how fundamental deep things are bad and then also why are you doing a relapse storyline? But we can’t really even have time to really talk about that because there’s all these small stupid things that could just so easily have been changed.

Analyssa: Because there’s a huge storm, the eye of which in Chicago.

Riese: The eye of the storm.

Drew: The next scene, all I wrote is Finley and her mom fighting. I don’t have anything else.

Riese: Finley’s mom allegedly made a reservation at Dana’s for one…

Drew: For this Thanksgiving dinner.

Analyssa:Riese: For this Thanksgiving dinner. And is generally bitching about the situation. She’s like, “there’s not a menu? I don’t get it.” And Finley’s like, “well, you should have gotten an email.” It’s very…

Riese: Yeah. And her mom was like, well, you would know I was coming if you’d answered my phone calls. Which, sure. I do feel one of the good… I do feel like we started to see the dynamic between Finley and her mom and why her mom… Her mom is a cunt as apparently she was called at somebody’s wedding. That’s true. She’s like, she’s really manipulative and mean to Finley.

Analyssa: Just so nasty.

Riese: Yeah. So it explains a lot about Finley’s personality and stuff. And I think that Jacqueline did such an amazing job this episode. This was Finley’s episode. There was so much good character work that happened, but everything else was bad.

Drew: I actually, this episode made me more than ever be like, wow, Jacqueline’s a really good actor.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Because the writing is not good and she pulled off a lot of it.

Riese: Yeah. She really did.

Analyssa: Yeah, for all of the foibles I have with the episode, none of them are about the performance or the Finley side of things really. I’m always sort of like, yeah, I’m on board.

Drew: We then go to the turkey trot and Carrie’s boss is like,

Carie’s Boss: Oh, you must be Tina!

Riese: 17 months. It has been 17 months since they broke up. 17 months.

Drew: To be fair…

Riese: A whole other Thanksgiving has already come and gone.

Drew: I do think what is slightly justified is that Carrie is very annoyed about it and is like, “Nope. Remember? She left me. It was a while.” And I do think it’s kind of making fun of this old straight man for being like, “the lesbians, it’s Carrie and Tina,” and you’re like, “no, it’s not. We’ve been broken up for over a year.” That could get that tone. Anyways, Carrie calls Misty her girlfriend, which feels very soon.

Riese & Analyssa: Five days.

Drew: Misty seems freaked out. Which, fair. And…

Riese: Starts running.

Drew: Starts running.

Riese: Back at Dana’s. The Suarezes are arriving. There is this funny point where Amari’s like, if we all came here so you can sleep with Finley, I’m going to be so pissed. Micah’s high, eating puff pastry. Why did they get Micah so high and do so little with it?

Drew: So little. All he does is eat, he doesn’t even seem high. All he does is eat a lot! It’s Thanksgiving. He can eat a lot anyways.

Riese: I mean if you watch Leo in the background, he’s doing it, he’s really trying to do it. He’s doing it. He’s doing it. But why make Micah who’s like uptight, anxious character so high?

Drew: He could’ve called Finley’s mom a cunt. He could’ve… It could’ve been like, ah, there’s so many things you could’ve done.

Riese: Why is Tess wasted and why is Micah high as a gourd? And to what end?

Drew: You know what I wish? I wish I’d taken three edibles before I watched this episode.

Riese: Nothing that happened on the show would’ve been different…

Analyssa: If they had not been.

Riese: Or even if Micah had just taken one edible and was chill.

Drew: Also, the missing ring storyline would’ve been better if she still wanted to propose and she was like, I need to find the… And they were like, bring the mashed potatoes, cause I still want to propose even though we’re going to be at Dana’s and so then it’s still looking for the ring. Instead it’s like, Micah’s high you’re not going to propose now.

Riese: That didn’t stop my parents from proposing, but they eventually got divorced. But my mom was on opium when she proposed to my father.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Wow. That’s kind of iconic. Yeah.

Drew: Is that how a lesbian proposes to a straight man?

Riese: That is how a lesbians a straight man, yes.

Analyssa: We have Finley’s mom like saying hi to all of these people and immediately she insults Sophie. She basically is what happened to your hair. Which is just that Sophie has an undercut.

Mrs Finley: Oh no, what happened here?
Finley: Mom!
Mrs Finley: Well it’ll grow back!
Sophie: I’m sure it will.

I just want to say, I know that this woman is supposed to be from Kansas City and that’s actually a personal attack on me. I know that there isn’t a lot about, in the episode, about her being from Kansas City being the root of the cuntiness. But there are so many people with undercuts in Kansas City. It’s not a…

Drew: It’s a city. It’s in the name.

Analyssa: It’s not crazy haircut. I don’t know. I know that I’m very hashtag blessed to have a family that’s pretty progressive for having all been born very Catholic Mexicans in the middle of the country.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Love them. Shout out them. But even my grandmother would never be like, “What happened to your head?” So crazy. Okay. That’s the last time. I’ll say that. It is an affront to me.

Drew: I did write down later when she says “you’re the only one who ever left Kansas City and created your own life.”

Analyssa: I can’t even… Imagine I’m the only person that everybody I know who left for a city… That’s so crazy. I can’t even. In my family alone.

Riese: She talks about Kansas City like it is a small rural town.

Analyssa: Unbelievable.

Riese: Yeah. Speaking of things that are unbelievable, we go to the charity Thanksgiving event.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Was there something else you wanted me to mention before?

Drew: No, it’s this, I’m just confused about this…

Analyssa: No, but Micah reads the email that he has a donor. It says they have a match.

Riese: Yeah, they have a match to their preferences.

Drew: That’s how it works right?

Riese: Yeah. Well they do. They say… I guess probably you can say, these are my criteria and they’ll send you a match. But you’d probably want to check out the match, see, make sure it was a good fit for other reasons. See what…if they were, whatever. They’re… whatever. So yeah, that happens. Then we go to the Charity Thanksgiving event. And this is a really good example of why do something when you could do something more interesting?

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: Angie says, this is a guy I used to date. He says that we could get back together at the end of the semester, which by the way is a month away. So come on. And also, at no point does she say to Shane, he was my professor.

Drew: Not once.

Riese: And there’s also no point where she start where it’s shows that she’s deliberately obscuring that fact where she starts to say it and then catches herself. Or is like, I shouldn’t… Nothing. It just isn’t mentioned. And why the fuck not? Because that would be so much more interesting and consistent with Angie’s character than her beginning to like fucking… Is this where she waxes poetic about how she wants to find love like her moms?

Drew: Yeah. Which is what? Literally, she watched her mom’s be a nightmare her whole life and literally their happy ending was driving through traffic in a chaos.

Riese: What?

Drew: It makes no sense to say, I just want to fast forward to what my moms have or to what you and Tess have. It is so…

Riese: What?

Analyssa: It’s also odd to me that Shane doesn’t clock that he’s old. To your point, Shane doesn’t clock that he looks much older than Angie at any point. Or that the woman he’s with looks much older than Angie.

Riese: Or that he’s on campus.

Drew: Which we… Unfortunately becomes relevant because he walks in, which is also just like…

Riese: Why? What is he doing there?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: Why is he at this charity event?

Drew: He helps…

Riese: He’s around campus because they show campus B-roll before they go to the event. So it’s somehow on campus. But like… he goes in there and they start looking at the canned goods.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: For the homeless.

Drew: I know that professor… Adjunct professors aren’t paid a lot, but I’m sure he should not be taking those, that food.

Riese: Yeah. I don’t think it’s for him in his polo. I was so excited to finally have Angie talk to someone about this who might actually talk about it in a real way. And I cannot believe that they decided to just forego that opportunity.

Drew: And then we go back to Dana’s where for some reason they’re serving the mashed potatoes, which they didn’t even finish making. They were, it was mid-making. I was like, when did the mashed potatoes get finished? And also weren’t you saving the food for the next day to have leftovers Thanksgiving? Because there’s food at, does Dana’s not have their own mashed potatoes?

Riese: Well they were. They’re bringing it because of the ring.

Drew: I know that. But why would they be serving it?

Riese: Well, aren’t they trying not to serve it? They just brought it to look through it, but they’re trying not to serve it.

Analyssa: Micah takes it.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: But that’s not your potatoes!

Analyssa: I feel like your little head is going to pop off your shoulders.

Riese: I think they should have hid the mash potatoes under the table.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Drew: Yes!

Riese: Right. So they have this ongoing bit where Nana’s smashing the potatoes with the… To see if the rings in there and Micah’s responses to it are cute and funny. That whole joke. That’s funny. That’s cute. So then Sophie says they play this game. This game actually sounds cute. I like it.

Analyssa: It’s really sweet.

Riese: Where they write down what they’re thankful for and they put it on a bowl and then everyone reads and I guess they guess whatever.

Drew: I like it.

Riese: And then in a personal affront, to me, a person who loves the rules of games…

Analyssa: Continue.

Riese: Finley’s mom just says out loud:

Mrs. Finley: I am thankful for my daughter Sarah.

Analyssa: Literally not the rules of the game. We just told you what we’re going to do. What the activity is for you to do it right now is so rude.

Riese: It’s unhinged and Finley’s like, well I never felt that before. And then she says she’s leaving Finley’s dad. That they got married young and Finley’s like, I have no idea what you’re talking about. She’s like, this couldn’t come as a surprise. And Finley’s like, it very much is a surprise.

Analyssa: Finley is floored.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: How long has it been since Finley has lived with her parents?

Riese: I mean, it’s been two years since the summer that she spent there. Right?

Drew: That was recent. Two years is pretty recent.

Riese: Yeah. That’s recent-ish but also, I don’t know if they remember that she spent the summer there.

Drew: The writers.

Riese: Yeah. I’m not really… But that was always unclear because it was very clear to us that her parents did not want her at home and then suddenly she was there for the summer and then we went back to the way it was before, which is apparently them not wanting her at home.

Drew: Do you remember when Sophie was running to the airport? and we were all so, oh my God, this show. The chaos. How fun. There was a thruple.

Riese: Finley did say in season one that her parents slept in separate beds.

Drew: So then that seems like a sign to me.

Riese: But it was funnier that she didn’t know. I found that more entertaining as a conversation. So then her mom is like, she thought Finley would understand because, and Finley’s not saying this is bad or wrong, she’s just surprised. She thought Finley would understand because Finley’s the only person who ever left Kansas City and made a life for herself. And we’ll get to the other problems but one of the problems with this for me was that that is kind of interesting, were it feasible. That is a really interesting thought. She came here because she’s feeling like in a box in Kansas City.

Analyssa: And nobody in her community understands her.

Riese: Right. No one understands her. Finley’s gone out on her own. She came all the way here. Finley didn’t even invite her or know she’s coming. She’s still here. She’s that desperate to talk to somebody who might give her some guidance and how to start your life over again. And she actually thinks that Finley’s done a great job with her own life. And then that whole line of thought is just thrown out the window like it was literally never said. It fits with nothing that happened after and nothing that happened before.

Analyssa: Because if you’ve come here seeking that connection with your daughter, then why does any of the fight that continues to happen, why would you come in so negatively and so mean? And there’s no explanation for…

Riese: Right. Why is she here?

Analyssa: It would even be interesting if this is how my mom always is and she can’t get over herself enough to admit that she needs help.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And look, because we… Probably, most of us have family that maybe sometimes is, I’m trying and then isn’t trying and that’s totally a real thing. But the way that it’s written does not feel like that at all. It feels completely disconnected and you’re like, why is she here? It doesn’t, doesn’t feel interesting. It doesn’t feel like, oh, she just can’t help herself, but be her normal cunty self. It’s not like that at all. It truly feels like she showed up to fight.

Analyssa: She came here to be mean. But then she said that the reason she came here, here is to look for some connection that she needs. Not even something that Finley needed.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And it’s realistic. It could be real. You just were saying with families to sometimes see that one way and someplace be another, but we only have, I don’t know, 10 minutes with this character. We don’t have time to do that. They need to pick a story.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And stick with it. I have no idea what this woman is doing in this town at this time.

Analyssa: What does she want? What did she hope to accomplish on this day?

Drew: It’s truly the most basic storytelling. It’s just such basic, like, what is this character’s motivation?

Riese: Right. I feel like…

Drew: What is the character’s goal? Desire. What is the arc of these char… It’s all these basic things and it’s just like, it’s so wild.

Riese: I feel like she did, her presence enabled us to do a lot of character work with Finley, but her on her own still doesn’t make sense. Which happens with a lot of their one-off characters.

Analyssa: So Finley gets sort of corralled by Tess and Sophie.

Riese: Finley goes into the back room cause she’s upset. And Sophie and Tess both go back there to try to help her.

Analyssa: They’re both sort of giving her—

Riese: Similarish advice?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Until Finley’s like, I should do amends. And Sophie’s like, I don’t think this is the right time. And Tess is like you should. Which I guess I’m also confused with, are we supposed to think that because Tess relapsed, she also has forgotten how…

Riese: I mean, has she ever been good at being…

Analyssa: So yeah, they have a conversation about how Finley’s going to take control of this situation by doing her amends, which

Riese: On the clock.

Analyssa: Yeah. First of all…

Riese: During a family meal.

Analyssa: First of all, she’s working. There’s a huge event at Dana’s right now. Okay. It’s not the time. She also hasn’t written her amends to her mom yet, which…

Drew: No, no. We’re going to get a writing montage. I’m joking.

Analyssa: But she has nothing prepared at all, which everyone is different but that’s a huge jump to make. It’s like, oh, I’m going to do it right now. If you have nothing, you haven’t even written it out.

Drew: Yeah. It’s also just so wild because if the storyline in this episode for Tess wasn’t that she relapsed, Tess could’ve been on the other side of this debate and it could’ve been a sign of Sophie trying to manage Finley’s feelings and trying to help and being over-involved in helping and being like, yeah, that sounds great. You could totally make it amends with her, but whatever.

Analyssa: And Tess being the sort of older, wiser mentor figure being, actually this might not be the right time. This is, but like…

Riese: If anyone was going to be wasted this episode, I really felt like it should have been Finley’s mom. And that could have given us a lot of insight into the way that Finley was raised and the way that… What she grew up around and how we got there from here. That would make even her giving amends at least more interesting but also, I don’t understand why this show really just doesn’t want Finley to ever do amends with anybody in a way that is actually going to be good.

Analyssa: And feel cathartic for her in the way that it’s supposed to —

Riese: and to be be doing it in public at a table where other people can…

Drew: Someone must be sober in the writer’s…. Like there must be someone who has some knowledge. What’s happening?

Riese: Also, it’s not, I mean, you can Google. A lot of meetings are closed, but you can go to a meeting. Anyone of this writing staff could go to a meeting or read the book or whatever.

Drew: It’s just weird for sobriety to be such a big part of Gen Q. From the beginning being on a through line and just there’d be no… I just don’t….

Analyssa: There’s also just so many people in LA, not especially queer people, but if you are in queer community, you know people who have done AA. It’s just not hard to… So even if no one in the writer’s room has experienced that, which I would be shocked. I guarantee you of writer’s room of 10 people would have a one friend who was in it.

Riese: Or an ex or a current partner or an ex and a current partner.

Drew: Aren’t you worried that… not worried but aren’t you aware that given that you’re dealing with something that so many people have personal knowledge of that to then put it in your show, it’s going to distract them?

Analyssa: And feel intensely connected to. The process of that is something that people have so many feelings about. It’s so absurd. It’s not Finley’s mom saying Kansas City in a derogatory tone, which only hurt my feelings probably. It is something that many people will be like, wait, what the fuck?

Riese: Yeah. I mean I feel like in general shows and movies do a bad job representing AA, but I don’t see why this show couldn’t strike out and do it correctly.

Analyssa: Be brave.

Riese: Be brave. Yes, I want to see them be brave.

Drew: It is interesting. I don’t know how either of you feel about this, but when I interviewed Mae Martin about the first season of Feel Good, I had heard criticisms from people about the way that AA was shown or meetings were shown. And so I asked them about it and they were like, yeah, this isn’t meant to be a formal AA meeting and I tried to make it so it was structured different so it didn’t seem like I was referring to that and I picked this format because it is more compelling to watch on screen. So it is fake and jokey and whatever, and that is what it is. But it’s a comedy show. And it was like, okay, even if you disagree with that, there was some thought put into that. There was some thought put into that. There was some internal logic to it, whereas this feels so baffling.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah and then Tess sort of tells Sophie to mind her business during all this at the end.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, Finley’s a big girl. I’m like, what are you talking… As she wasn’t… Because obviously she’s telling Sophie mind your business because Finley’s not her girlfriend anymore. But what does that have to do with Finley being a big or a small girl?

Analyssa: And it’s very clear from this episode, Finley actually does need the support of a lot of people, which is not a knock. It’s just what she’s in the market for right now. So it is bizarre.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: We go back to Angie and Shane and Shane is like, I’m going to help sneak you out. And Angie’s like, what about the hungry? And Shane is like, I’ll write them a check. Just like, okay.

Analyssa: I did think this was cute, them loading Angie up into the little cart and like, is this when they run into the teacher and he’s like, can I have one of these? Which again, why are you here? And Shane is like, they’re for the hungry or whatever she says, which is…

Drew: It feels very weird. I’m just like…

Riese: I did laugh. I was like, well that’s funny.

Drew: It’s not the Shane saying I’ll write them a check. That feels Shane to me. It’s more of Angie being the hungry, the people who are here to eat Thanksgiving food. Like, can we… I don’t understand.

Riese: Shortly thereafter, we find out that Shane is also hungry.

Drew: I don’t understand. I mean I, we’ve established that they don’t know how to write the Gen Z, but…

Analyssa: The Gen Z. And actually we do.

Riese: Yes. As you can see, we’re very tuned in. We have our finger on a lot of young pulses.

Drew: But I just am like, I don’t understand what they want Angie’s politics to be and what her political awareness is.

Riese: I mean, she had a $5,000 duffle bag last week, guys, so.

Drew: I guess maybe it’s true. I mean it was funny that the way she was serving the potatoes was, and I was like, well, she is the daughter of Rich lesbians, so she probably has never served mashed potatoes.

Analyssa: Fully grew up in Brentwood. I read that in your recap about her duffle bag and really lost my mind. It was very funny.

Riese: And it was weird ’cause they showed it really intensely Twice.

Analyssa: Prominently. Yeah.

Riese: Anyhow, so Angie’s out. Yay. Turkey trots.

Drew: Carrie apologizes for calling Misty her girlfriend and Misty’s like, I have to poop.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Oh right, because earlier in the morning…

Riese: Just so you know, it’ll take her 45 minutes.

Analyssa: They’re at a reservoir. No, it’s going to take so long.

Drew: Why would they go to Dana’s?

Analyssa: Because that’s where everybody is this episode, Drew.

Drew: I didn’t think about that. I didn’t know that.

Riese: LA is this big.

Analyssa: Because when you have to shit urgently, you need to find the closest location that has the most of your friends in it.

Drew: Those are good points. Because that’s what everyone wants to do is shit around a bunch of people.

Riese: I’d be like everyone I’m trying to impress…

Analyssa: At a place that has one staff bathroom that is horrifying. It’s because Finley made her coffee earlier in the morning, which is actually very relatable to me. That will mess me up for a whole day.

Riese: If I were her though, I would want to find… I’d be like where… I would just disown… I would leave Carrie and just find a whole new life, a whole new family and use their bathroom and then never see them again. I’m gone. Straight to Dana’s. I thought they were walking over the porta potty, whatever.

Analyssa: I thought they were going to use a porta potty. I was like, oh, there’s, they’re outside. There has to be a little restroom. Having to do that waddle all the way back to Dana’s from the Silver Lake Reservoir is so hot.

Riese: She should’ve just gotten on side the road and just popped a squat. That’s how they did it in nature.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s true.

Riese: Have you ever seen Planet of the Apes?

Drew: I thought you were going to say Bridesmaids.

Analyssa: Bridesmaids happen just right in the middle of the street.

Drew: Then Dani… Dre’s like, do you have a whatever,

Riese: A Bree.

Drew: A Bree.

Riese: And I would’ve been like, no, I have a Gouda.

Drew: And they’re like, is it Sophie? And Dani’s like, what? No. And it’s like, how long were Dani and Sophie together? Because I feel like the show is wanting me to think they were together for a year and then got engaged. They were together for like eight years, right?

Riese: Oh, I don’t think that long.

Drew: A long time though. Anyways.

Riese: Several years.

Drew: Anyway, Dani’s like, it’s Roxy and talks about Roxy and then…

Riese: Why did we get all this information about Roxy now? They were in daycare together. They hooked up in high school.

Drew: I want Roxy on the show.

Analyssa: They’ve known each other their whole lives.

Drew: What if… I have a theory. .

Riese: Like Roxy… if someone was coming in who I know my whole life, I wouldn’t be, the most important thing about this person is that they’re my bad friend.

Analyssa: It’s that lifelong friend who I have always had a weird thing with.

Riese: And especially, I mean, I don’t have this, but I feel like people who have someone in their life who has been their friends since they were really young and they both turned out queer, that is a weird, very special bond.

Drew: I have one of those. We don’t hook up though.

Analyssa: But it’s feel, I mean, that’s what you would lead with. You know what I mean? This is somebody who you’re very close to.

Riese: That is what you lead with when you talk about [inaudible 00:43:03].

Drew: Oh, what I was going to say is that I like Dani and Dre. I like Dani and Gigi. I like Dani and Roxy. What if everyone else goes away? We get It’s Dani spinoff.

Riese: It’s Dani.

Drew: It’s Dani.

Riese: Dani’s Home.

Drew: Dani’s Home. And it’s her various relationships and lovers.

Riese: Like Scandal except that she’s dated everybody in her firm.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of backstory. Dani’s telling Dre is like, my mom is dead and my dad’s in prison.

Riese: Yeah. I did find this relatable in terms of someone just trying to be like, so what do your parents do when you’re like, he’s dead. And then they’re like, wow, this is really supposed to be a nice fun conversation. And now it’s a bad one. You know what I mean? Well, it’s so awkward, especially when it happens when you’re relatively young and you just have to spend the rest of your life having that awkward conversation. So I felt like that was great and authentic and good job to everybody.

Drew: Good job for that.

Riese: They were great together.

Drew: Dre is like my Thanksgivings were loud and Dani’s like, if you want loud, and I was like, wait, but what about Finley seeing Dre and all of that and…

Riese: Oh right. I forgot about that.

Drew: An adventure.

Analyssa: As soon as they walked in, I was like, wouldn’t this be really stressful for everyone involved? Sophie just drunkenly kissed Dre a week ago. Oh, isn’t this crazy?

Drew: We then get maybe the wildest scene of this episode, which is the writing montage. I’m just fascinated by the way writing is shown on screen because it’s a very uncinematic thing. And so I always find it very entertaining to watch shows and movies try to create some sort of… Which is why I’m pro circus. I love a choice. This is, instead of just having…

Riese: That opinion is a choice.

Drew: Instead of having Finley writing then crossing things out and the music is this song and…

Riese: She could’ve been envisioning herself at the circus, waking up in the dirt with the Ferris Wheel.

Drew: Well, you know what I…

Riese: Yes, exactly.

Drew: Do you know what I would’ve not minded?

Riese: What?

Drew: A montage of flashbacks. Yeah. We don’t need that. There’s better, there’s more interesting choices.

Riese: Oh my God, and who would play Little Finley? A little tomboy.

Drew: Aww. Yeah. But we don’t get that. We just get this weird writing montage and then we go to Sophie doing a land acknowledgement. And then Finley’s moms, what about the Mayflower? And then there’s some back and forth that honestly has the political sharpness of the Thanksgiving episodes of Friends. It’s like where you’re like, Thanksgiving’s bad, right? And you’re just like, cool, thanks for addressing this. Thumbs up. You’re good liberals. But it is just, I guess one more thing with Finley’s mom where, yeah…

Riese: So then Finley is like, this would be the perfect moment for me to sit down on this chair next to my dear mother and do my amends for her that I just wrote. And it begins honestly, beautifully. And it was gorgeous. The writing that montage, that process clearly worked because Finley’s very first statement is, I’m sorry for getting drunk and calling you a cunt at whoever’s wedding. Which is like, that’s just,

Analyssa: Mwah. Big chef’s kiss to that one.

Riese: No chef’s kiss for the turkey, but a big chef’s kiss for that one. And of course I think she’s raised Catholic, right? Isn’t that the history?

Analyssa: Christian of some sort, yeah.

Riese: Yeah. So her mom basically is like, we don’t have to talk about our feelings. That’s too much. There’s sort of a big explosion because Finley’s like, I just want to apologize for embarrassing you or whatever. And then Finley’s mom is basically, you embarrass me all the time. There’s just some things you don’t remember or something.

Analyssa: Yeah. So a couple things. Number one, if you have to do your amends in that little voice that you do at a party where you talk under your voice to just the person next to you? Bad. Do it somewhere where you can actually speak at your full volume. That’s just a helpful tip. And then the thing about this that maybe is nitpicking, because it’s so small, but drove me nuts. It’s like, okay, so this is a woman who’s intensely afraid of being embarrassed or hates being embarrassed. That’s something that she resents Finley for, is having embarrassed her her whole life. So she has decided to fly to Los Angeles to be in a room full of strangers to yell at her daughter in front of a room full of strangers. That seems deeply embarrassing to me and of her own making. So I was like, again, Finley, I’m begging. Please stop springing your amends on people when they say, no, I don’t really want to talk about this right now. It’s not a sign to continue to barrel through and be like, no, no, no, I just have to apologize. That’s not correct. But her mom’s reaction is insane. And I get that’s the point. I’m supposed to think that her mom is the big bad villain of her life. Fair, but there’s no subtlety, there’s no anything. It’s not even a good portrayal of a person that exists who is so worried about appearances and upkeep that she is cruel to the people she loves for embarrassing, but minor transgressions. This is so unhinged.

Riese: Right. I mean, I think this is another situation where it would make sense if she was also an alcoholic where she doesn’t realize that she’s also embarrassing herself because she’s not with it, you know what I mean?

Analyssa: I also thought for a brief second that she might be a lesbian.

Drew: Oh yeah. Right.

Riese: That was what I…

Riese: The jacket. The whole sort of Mary McCormick’s vibe has always been intensely lesbian.

Analyssa: There are just people who have a vibe that are like, yeah, she has a vibe.

Riese: That’s a queer person or a queer character.

Drew: I just think we would learn more if Finley was doing these amends in a way that was—

Analyssa: Correct?

Drew: Correct. And then her mom reacted poorly we would learn something more about her mom.

Analyssa: Or the day is going really well. And so Finley is like, okay, I’m going to actually try to make my amends. I thought that I wasn’t ready, but she’s here and we are kind of coasting through the… There’s been some bumps, but it’s okay, let me try. And then it explodes. This was just like…

Riese: Yeah. I would’ve loved even for them to try… If she wants to do it, to take her aside and have it be just the two of them and then we’d get a lot more out of it. But I guess they wanted everybody to see it or whatever. But then, that’s when Dre and Dani show up and Dre’s like, “Hmm, this is actually a pretty quiet Thanksgiving.” Because everybody is still in shock that Finley’s mom is who she is and is saying the things that she’s saying.

Drew: And then Finley leaves and Sophie runs after her. Then we go back to Angie and Shane. They see the Hendrix’s car and Angie sees the Chatbook in the back.

Riese: Brutal. To see your little handmade gift and the thrown in the back seat of someone’s car.

Drew: Truly is.

Riese: Like a Burger King wrapper.

Drew: And Shane is like, you’re better than I was at your age. I would’ve broken the window, so.

Riese: Would she? I think Shane just would walked away.

Analyssa: I feel like Shane wouldn’t have given anyone anything sentimental at this age, actually.

Drew: Shane would’ve done a bunch of drugs and had a threesome.

Riese: Or I guess fallen asleep in her truck outside of the house.

Drew: It was like other people giving Shane gifts that she was discarding actually.

Riese: Yeah. It was other people throwing rocks through Shane’s window.

Drew: But then Angie a piece of the things that are a parking spot. You know what I’m talking about and then throws it at the window, takes the chapbook, and then Hendrix shows up soon after.

Riese: And as you can hear the alarms in the background.

Drew: And then looks in the back and sees that the book’s gone and knows that it was Angie. Which it’s like, don’t fuck 18 year olds if you don’t want them to act childish.

Riese: Right. Also, Shane was like, do you want to take his parking pass? And I’m like, is that his faculty parking pass? Is there any way this could possibly still come up? Maybe?

Analyssa: They do an extended bit about calling the cops. Hendrix and the woman he’s with, which I was just like, we don’t need to get into it. We’ve already talked about this on multiple episodes, but there’s a real leaning into calling the cops this season in a way that I’m like, what are we doing? I did think that it was very funny that Shane was like Angie, no, stop, stop, stop and then was just clearing off the glass so that she was not getting cut. It’s very fun, gay aunt instead of responsible one, which I loved.

Riese: Wouldn’t it have been even more meaningful if Shane had also been mad at this man because she knew that he was her professor, right?

Drew: Yes. It would have been.

Analyssa: And she felt like it was justified because someone took advantage of an 18 year old.

Riese: Why did they set this up for so long. Oh my God.

Drew: Then we go back to Finley crying about her mom. And then…

Riese: I thought this was good though.

Analyssa: I really liked this scene.

Drew: Finley and Sophie kiss.

Analyssa: Sophie gives her a really sweet speech about how much light she brings to the world and how everybody loves her. And I really enjoyed this, especially the way that we’ve been talking about Carrie being in Finley’s life and being like, I’m not going to leave you. It’s just so important to have people who remind you that you are good. The people who get in your head are not the correct ones. We are here because you are good inherently. Because Finley’s just talking about feeling an idiot and wanting her mom to not hate her and I don’t know, I just really liked it.

Riese: Yes, I saw this really sweet moment between them and I was really glad that they kissed because I thought finally they’re getting back together.

Analyssa: And then they are busted by Misty who has to poop in this one bathroom as previously discussed. I guess they’re busted by Carrie, but Carrie is bringing Misty to the bathroom. Finley and Sophie go back out and Finley’s mom is still there, which is not what I would do if I had just caused a scene. I would’ve left.

Drew: Also, what about all of these queers who showed up to Dana’s being safe space for Thanksgiving and then it’s like, it’s just this homophobic lady screaming.

Analyssa: There’s a comment here from Sophie’s family about them getting back together because Finley and Sophie come back to the dinner table together and Finley’s mom is like, you guys dated? I didn’t even know she was gay—

Riese & Analyssa: —she’s so pretty.

Analyssa: I’m like, what is going on here?

Drew: What year is this?

Riese: Also, I would be more believable if she was like, she’s so feminine. But obviously they couldn’t have her say that because she’s not. But I’m just like, there’s nothing, what are you talking about?

Analyssa: Her daughter is gay and very pretty. It doesn’t make any sense. Again, I need desperately to know where every single writer in this writer room is from because it does have such… She’s from the Midwest, she’s not from California. That’s why she doesn’t get it. Which is like, it’s just not how it is.

Riese: Yeah. Gay people literally live everywhere.

Drew: It’s also a greatest hits of boring lines from other shows where people were homophobic. But they also contradict each other because it’s like the, I don’t know, all of it’s so confusing.

Riese: Also, she just commented on Sophie’s hair we were saying earlier. That was her first comment to her was like, what’s wrong with your hair? And now she’s saying, “oh, I thought you were too pretty to be gay.” I mean it’s a fun… There was a moment where it did feel like the whole cast is sort of coming together in a way. And it was really nice when she was like who are you and Carrie was like,

Carrie: I’m Carrie, I’m the one who’s been filling in your absence.

Riese: I was like, yeah, that’s right. Go. And I was like, this is nice and is nice for Finley. So I guess there’s that.

Analyssa: But then Finley tries to stop in. So Carrie says that. Yeah, and Finley’s mom is like, great, well, hope you’re ready to take care of all her problems.

Riese: Yeah, clean up all her messes. Hope you like cleaning up messes. I’m like, what’s wrong with you?

Analyssa: Also, she has not lived with them in years and years, so you don’t have any idea what kind of messes, again, maybe two for the summer, but whatever. And then her mom… So Finley tries to kind of quash the situation and her mom really escalates it and starts screaming. I didn’t take notes on what she says except for the line where she says, you need to be on medication. Which is like…

Riese: I was like, oh my God.

Drew: The question is, does Finley’s mom think that Finley is a disastrous fuck up or does she think that she’s the only one to ever leave Kansas City and make a life for herself? Those feel contradictory.

Riese: That contradicts this also. But I do think it’s possible to read this as her mom is intensely religious and homophobic and so just that she cannot help herself from immediately just going in the way that on television, religious, homophobic people do to gay people where no matter how much she might have decided to have some composure that she thinks that Finley is just this giant mess. But also that doesn’t fit with you’re the only one who left Kansas City. You build this beautiful life for yourself and might make more sense. I don’t know if she was resentful that Finley was sober and she wasn’t and was resentful of Finley’s success. Just something that’s happened since she arrived in that room and saw Finley that has in some way triggered her. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: It’s been like festering this whole day. She watching it and becoming seething with it. I just… You need to be on medication. I need so many… I have to ask this woman 16 questions about that specific thing said to her daughter who she hasn’t seen in years.

Riese: I assume that was about being gay.

Analyssa: Medication for what?

Riese: For being gay.

Analyssa: They make a pill for that?

Drew: She doesn’t even come across as a homophobe. I mean, I know that she is, but she doesn’t come across as that kind. She comes across as the same kind of, I don’t know… She doesn’t feel like that kind of religious zealot.

Riese: Right. Also, because she’s leaving Finley’s father.

Drew: Yeah. And she’s spending Thanksgiving in a lesbian bar.

Riese: In Heathenville.

Analyssa: She’s not looking at all the people around. Well, maybe, I guess we’ve been led to believe that she doesn’t know that all the people in here are because he think they’re just pals.

Riese: Yeah. They’re just girlfriends. Girls who are friends.

Drew: It makes no sense.

Analyssa: It doesn’t make any sense.

Drew: Makes no sense. Then my next note is Micah is still high, but not really acting high. He’s just eating a lot.

Riese: Right. Which, haha,

Analyssa: Wait, but there’s a scene here where Carrie tells…

Drew: Carrie tells Finley’s mom to leave.

Analyssa: So Carrie tells Finley’s mom to leave and then hugs Finley and calls everybody over to like…

Riese: Wait, we forgot about the turkey drop.

Analyssa: Oh, did I skip past already? Oh okay.

Riese: So Tess drops a Turkey. I have questions about this meal.

Analyssa: In Finley’s mom’s lap, which I wish had been purposeful.

Drew: Yeah, that would’ve been fun.

Analyssa: Because we get some, like you said, when the cast all kind of assembles around the table, when Finley’s mom says Sophie’s too pretty to be gay. All the cast is sort of side eyeing each other like this bitch. It would’ve been so funny.

Riese: And they all make, there’s lots of little comments around the table that were funny too.

Analyssa: It would’ve been so funny if Tess was like, whoops.

Riese: Yeah. A sober Tess had been like, whoops.

Drew: Also, this is a minor note, but a Turkey is the least funny thing to be dropped from the Thanksgiving table. It’s the end of the meal. What about a pumpkin pie? That’s gooey.

Riese: What about green bean casserole? She’s from the Midwest. Come on.

Analyssa: Cranberry sauce.

Drew: Cranberry sauce. Like a turkey? Also, why does she throw it on the floor? That’s really how I knew that Finley’s mom was ac cunt is that she just, it’s on her lap and she just flops it off. Put it on the damn table.

Riese: Put it on the table unless it burns. Unless it’s burning. Also, why is, I assume they do the turkey because it’s not as messy to do multiple takes.

Drew: I see, sure.

Riese: But also, is that really how film works? I don’t know anything.

Analyssa: A whole bowl of rolls.

Riese: I would’ve dropped a bucket of blood on her like Carrie or maybe slime. The Nickelodeon old days. And there’s a part where she said to Finley, I was hoping you’d change. And Finley was like, I have. And I was like, that’s good character development.

Analyssa: But again, I’m hoping you change does not square with you’re the only person who left Kansas City and made a life for yourself. Okay then Carrie tells Finley’s mom to leave. We’ve had enough, two hours too late I think. And then Carrie gives Finley a hug and she asks everybody to come in and give Finley a hug. And I did cry.

Riese: I just thought, I’m so happy for Finley that she has this wonderful caretaker. What a nice thing.

Drew: I thought it’s so strange for a television episode to be written where every writer in the room can only say one word and then you just go around the room like that old camp game where you had to tell a story that way. What an interesting way to write a screenplay.

Riese: So then…

Drew: Oh, then Micah’s high and eating and I guess then they never found the ring and they’re like, we never found the ring. And I was like, did he eat it?

Riese: Yeah. Then everybody’s in the bathroom. Isn’t that funny? Wouldn’t that be funny?

Drew: And then Sophie says that she still wants to be friends and Finley says that she’s still in love and so can’t be friends for some time. Which, I’m sorry.

Riese: What has been going on all this time?

Drew: Yeah, I don’t really know. And then Finley does say something about being thankful for all… Says I love all of you and says even you Dre. And I was like, oh. So we did acknowledge it. What?

Riese: Oh was she talking to Dre? I thought she was talking to Dani.

Drew: Oh, I thought she was talking to Dre.

Riese: That would’ve been really funny if she was talking to Dre. That would’ve been a bold statement.

Analyssa: No. Yeah. I think she says even you for now or today or something. And it’s about her and Dani.

Drew: Oh, I thought it was to Dre because she and Dani made up episodes ago.

Riese: Also then she’s like, well I got your pie or something. I was just like, what?

Analyssa: They’re doing…

Riese: That’s sounded weird. That’s not a really special thing to know about someone. What kind of pie they like. Couldn’t they try a little bit harder with that. Just a little harder. These are good actors. They can do a good job if you write good work.

Drew: My favorite kind of pie is whatever…

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I actually know Drew’s favorite kind of pie.

Drew: What’s my favorite pie?

Analyssa: Drew’s favorite kind of pie is whatever pie is the specialty at the place that she’s getting the pie from.

Drew: Correct. I love most flavors of pies. And when you sometimes go to a pie shop and they’re like, we are known for our cranberry dark chocolate crumble or whatever.

Riese: No ’cause I never talk to people but I can imagine.

Drew: Or it could be written somewhere. Where you’re like, oh well that’s not something that’s at every pie shop. I mean, I love a pumpkin. I love an apple. Yeah, I love… Pie’s my favorite dessert. Pie with a scoop of ice cream. Ooh. Amazing.

Riese: Were they eating sides for an hour and then they were all going to eat Turkey as a main course?

Analyssa: It’s in my notes. What did the people at Dana’s eat? What did they serve that day? I don’t know.

Riese: Because they were all eating, they were eating way before the turkey came. So those were, and then also…

Analyssa: Appetizers?

Drew: It’s actually, it’s not a turkey, it’s a cake.

Riese: Oh it’s a cake. And was that turkey for everyone who were…

Drew: They didn’t know that all these people were going to be there. It was all surprise friends because Finley’s mom.

Riese: Even though they had to make reservations.

Drew: So I don’t know how many turkeys they made. Who’s cooking?

Riese: I wish that Finley’s mom had made a… Because at first when she was sitting alone at the table for 10, I was like, she made a reservation for 10. Who else is coming? And it was like, I don’t know her only friends in LA like Rick Caruso and some girl she knew in college. Katy Perry. So who wants to be friends? So they’re like, oh, we never read the gratitude.

Analyssa: And also Carrie tells Finley she’s really proud of her and she stood her ground today and stood in her truth.

Riese: And I just love their relationship so much. And I loved how it was portrayed in this episode as well. And how Carrie stuck for her. Cause I think it’s really cool to have, if your butch lesbian Rosie O’Donnell mom is standing up to your shitty whatever.

Drew: And that’s why she has to die.

Analyssa: I was going to say, lovely intergenerational queer relationship you got there. Would be a shame if somebody did something to it.

Drew: But before that, Micah reveals about the donor… Oh, because the note says something about a donor and then Carrie’s like organ or baby, which was, that got my biggest laugh in the episode.

Riese: This was so annoying to me. Why is everyone cheering that you found a donor?

Drew: It makes no sense.

Riese: Who cares?

Analyssa: It doesn’t make sense.

Riese: Of course you found… Eventually people find donors and also they didn’t yet. They don’t know anything about this man. I mean, whatever.

Drew: It makes no sense.

Riese: The way everyone was cheering. And the moment I saw it, I thought when I re-watch this to outline the episode, cause I have to watch it once the screencap and then next I was like, I’m going to have to fast forward through the scene because it’s like rage courses through my body. They’re like, Oh my God! What? When has this ever happened? Oh my God. Just watch they’re going to go home and they’re going to be like, sorry, all the vials are sold out. And they’ll be like, oh I wish we hadn’t done that. Wish we just cheers to Finley like Carrie asked us to. Or no, Dani proposed the cheers to Finley.

Analyssa: Dani makes a toast to Finley. That’s another…

Riese: She’s like Pink. She raises her glass.

Analyssa: Step forward. They’ve really made…

Drew: I feel like we’re past… The show’s forgotten. It’s all good with this.

Riese: Oh, I thought it was funny though that their mom says the same thing every year.

Drew: Oh that was…

Analyssa: That was cute.

Riese: Yeah, it was like Sophie’s family is cute and lovely and I think was also nice to show that the family that is the most intact for all of these people is one that doesn’t, the dad left and it doesn’t matter. They’re still the coolest family and the most supportive and most loving.

Drew: And then back at Carrie’s house, oh boy, Carrie has a heart attack.

Riese: She says her arm hurts and I was like, oh no. And she fucking collapses. And I’m just like…

Analyssa: They did a truly grim thing to Rosie’s makeup.

Drew: Yeah. It looked, I was like, what’s going on? And then I found out.

Analyssa: So scary.

Riese: Also her being one of the only characters who isn’t super thin.

Drew: Yeah. It sucks.

Riese: And her being one of the only butch characters. I mean I know that it’s like Rosie also talks about how she hates exercise and stuff. But come on guys. Rosie’s so good. And she really does…

Drew: She sells everything.

Riese: Every scene she’s in. And I probably said this about people and haven’t really meant it, but I really truly mean it. Whatever lines they write for Rosie, no matter how weird, she just kills it.

Analyssa: And it’s incredibly endearing, the whole character of Carrie. But when you think about the pieces that have gone into the humor around the character of Carrie, you’re like, this is shitty, maybe.

Riese: Yeah like giving her a fucking heart attack ’cause she ran a little bit today? Come on.

Analyssa: It’s terrible.

Drew: And then Tess drinking.

Riese: Tess drinking. And then she starts reading some absolutely inane thing to her mom who none of us really know or care about. I am thankful that you taught me… I can’t remember a word of it because it was the least memorable thing anyone has ever said on any television show ever and I watched all 17,000 seasons of Glee.

Analyssa: I wrote them all down.

Riese: You did?

Analyssa: Yes because it was interesting to me, the people that they happened to coincide directly with the little montage that we are given of all of our characters.

Drew: Also wait, before Tess texts Shane and says, miss you.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: She’s thankful that her mom taught her that rules are meant to be broken. And we see a little insert of Angie and Shane with their arms around each other. Get it? Cause they broke rules today. We have the power to make the family we choose and we’re with the Suarezes—

Riese: Biological family.

Analyssa: Biological family, but ok. And Maribel is proposing to Micah and they all watch. So in that way we have chosen a family member. When something good comes into your life, you should hold onto it. And Dani and Dre kiss. And then I’m thankful you taught me every moment on this earth is a gift. And Tess scatters her mom’s ashes. And then it cuts to Finley like doing CPR on Carrie while she’s on the phone with 911.

Riese: It felt like someone had walked into my apartment and taken two rusty nails from the bottom of the good ship lollipop and stuffed them into my eyes. I assume Carrie’s going to live because it would be really fucking gutsy of them to literally kill her.

Drew: It would be… There’s no way. I mean it’s how I felt when Gigi was hit by the car.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I was like…

Analyssa: They just can’t.

Drew: You’re not going to kill anyone.

Riese: You can’t like… You’ve already offscreen killed Kit and Jenny, which was brutal for both of them. And I mean Jenny was already dead. So I guess technically you’ve just offscreen killed Kit, but you’ve also offscreen killed Marcus Allenwood and we just don’t need it. And also this episode doesn’t need this because what if this episode’s doing really well, is building this relationship, is finally giving Finley who’s had a rough go of it, something to hold and that is actually going really fucking well. Why would you do this? And the cheapness of that ending.

Drew: It’s awful.

Riese: Same thing with Gigi getting T-boned. It’s just so fucking cheap. It’s so easy. It’s so boring. And it’s so…

Drew: It’s not a cliffhanger also because again, we have the level of there’s no way. There’s just no way. So it’s not a cliffhanger. It’s like why did you do that?

Riese: Yeah. What I’m wondering at the end of the episode, what I want to know for next week is, why the fuck did you do that? I don’t want to know… That’s what I want to know.

Drew: I don’t understand why you would be granted the privilege of making The L Word and this is what you get.

Riese: And having Rosie O’Donnell.

Analyssa: Right. Rosie O’Donnell is guest starring and

Riese: And saying she loves it! She always says nice things about being on the set and she enjoys it.

Drew: It’s just so wild that the original L Word is so much better than Gen Q when that original L Word is such a fucking mess. I mean obviously there are certain things that are better but not nearly enough. What did we learn in those years away?

Analyssa: I just feel so often the plot lines, I understand that they are not real humans who have real feelings. They are characters in a TV show. I don’t understand why the plot lines are so cruel to them. It just feels like—

Drew: It’s because they’re not… It’s lazy writing because they can’t think of… They can’t sustain any sort of conflict. Stories need conflict and they can’t sustain conflict that isn’t from “The Soap Opera Book of 12 Boring Choices.”

Riese: And also, I don’t think twice in one 10 episode season you can end on a “will they or won’t they die” cliffhanger.

Drew: Maybe if you’re doing…

Riese: They just killed Tess’ mom.

Drew: Yeah. If you’re doing an action show or your show is about soldiers in World War II?

Riese: Yeah. Or it’s like you’re doing The Walking Dead or it’s True Blood or I don’t know, Westworld.

Drew: But it’s The L Word: Generation Q. Can you please stop.

Riese: If you’re doing like Battle Royale, if you’re doing The Squid Game.

Drew: They only know how to…

Riese: This is The Squid Game. Basically.

Drew: They know how to kill, almost kill, cheating, breakup and lie.

Analyssa: I was like, oh, this is a perfect “and lie” joke.

Riese: And again, no sex scenes.

Drew: No sex scenes.

Analyssa: Nope. Just one kiss.

Riese: Just one kiss. Isn’t that a song?

Analyssa: One kiss is all it takes. I disagree.

Riese: I think we need a few more. A few more kisses.

Drew: Okay. Well, and that’s, that’s all right?

Riese: And that’s all she wrote.

Drew: The fact that I’m so happy there are only two more episodes is such a bummer. I shouldn’t be happy about that. I should be sad.

Riese: I’m sad because I’m nervous that the things that I want to happen are not going to happen in time. But it’s just so disappointing and I don’t understand, because I have tried so hard this season with the podcast and the recap to be as positive as possible and give it the benefit of the doubt beyond reason. Did I say this last season? Maybe I did because the same thing started happening this last few episodes just went…

Drew: I’m now remembering why the finale, I was like, I’m not coming back next season. And I did and now look.

Riese: They get feedback, right? So what’s going on? I mean, I guess who, it’s funny because, whatever. I mean it doesn’t ultimately matter. Nothing really matters. We’re all going to die.

Analyssa: I was going to say, what? What’s a little bumper?

Riese: What’s a little bumper? We’re all going to die someday. But I think it’s frustrating maybe because we like these people and we love this franchise and I would like it to continue.

Drew: I love the cast.

Riese: I love the cast.

Drew: I love new people who were brought on this year. I love Kehlani. I love Joey Lauren Adams. I love Dre. It just shows how famous various people are who I refer to by character names. But I like Roxy. They’ve brought on really good new characters. Carrie’s been a bigger part of it. That’s been great.

Analyssa: And I feel like we’ve been, so the show’s iteration of Bette and Tina are gone. Actually watching Alice lead episodes or watching Shane centric episodes, that’s been really fun and exciting. And just… By episode… I feel like this has happened. This happened last year and this year that it’s by episode seven or eight you’re kind of like where do we go from here? And it just gets frustrating because I want nothing more than to just be a fan.

Riese: Right? Yeah. I want to be a fan. I want to be having a really good time. I don’t want to be complaining. After watching this episode, I was like, we have to record the podcast immediately because I am just teaming at the gills with frustrations. Even though I’ve already written the recap. That’s not enough. I still have more to complain about. But I think I probably complain in general more on the podcast than in the recaps. But it just, it’s frustrating because it feels like it wouldn’t be that hard to make it better.

Analyssa: That is actually, I think part of the reason that the podcast can tend toward not complaining but getting more critical, which is that all three of us have better ideas for how… Have very easy pitches for, oh, if it was two lines that were different, this would make sense to me. And when you’re writing your recap, I assume you’re thinking that, but there’s no bouncing ideas or validation of like, oh yeah, I also thought that. Again, it just can quickly become, and another thing when we’re on.

Drew: You might say that this is a writer’s room and why is this not happening in the writer’s room? Which is just, I think something’s happening in the infrastructure of what it takes to make television where things…

Riese: Somehow things are not working.

Drew: I don’t know. I don’t what is happening. I don’t know if they’re not getting enough time. I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah, there’s something going on because they have talented people in that room.
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I do think that probably is worth, we’re a podcast of writers. We are writers and I’d love to write for TV and we have invested interest in this medium. All of us do. It’s not that, I think in that way it might be different than a podcast by fans or by comedians or actors or something. Because we’re all writers we, it’s basically, this is a writer’s take on the show. You know what I mean? And that is going to be probably more, maybe that’s why we’re so frustrated because we just want to edit it.

Analyssa: I read a review of Babylon on Letterbox today that was just somebody I follow that was like, give me a pound of cocaine and 72 hours in the edit bay. I could fix this thing. And sometimes I don’t even need the drugs, obviously I just watch the L word. I’m just 10 more words. I think I could change it, which maybe is just my own feeling like I could do better. But also just sometimes I’m like, but logically, puzzle wise, doesn’t that make sense?

Drew: I will say from having been on sets before, that sometimes you are trying to put out certain fires and change certain things that really bother you. And everyone’s kind of trying to do that and in the end you get this, there isn’t the prep time when the person who’s leading the ship isn’t maybe given the resources or isn’t equipped to do so. All the different voices that are involved and have good ideas end up with a thing where one person’s good idea of, well maybe Finley’s mom justifies it by saying that she’s here because she’s leaving her husband and Finley left home. And so it really makes sense. And they’re like, oh, that’s a great idea. And then on then someone else is like this idea, and everyone’s trying… then someone else had an idea that was offensive to one person. So then someone’s like actually, that’s offensive. We need to change that line. And all these different things are happening and then it results in work that just feels incompetent. I do think that that happens and that probably is what’s happening. And it’s just frustrating because with the right amount of planning and with the right amount of actually listening to people the first time they say things like, you can avoid a lot of that, I think.

Riese: And it seems like they’re shooting on a tight little schedule. They had one day of rehearsing for the musical episode.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: And that they shot the whole, all that Fletcher stuff they had to shoot it in the rain because they couldn’t put it off. I think it just would’ve been great if they had engaged with the reality that Gigi… Because obviously she has a different job. And I wish they just… I don’t know why they just weren’t open about that. In the past I mean, most shows usually are, they’re just like, yeah, sorry, we killed this character off. They wanted to leave the show.

Drew: Do you think they wanted to kill her with the car accident? And then were like, we can’t do that. And then wrote another episode where she…

Riese: But that’s a really distinct way of looking at it, is that this is a lot of different people having different ideas. So somebody, especially if you’re trying to involve all these young voices, but you don’t… Like it’s trying… Any type of group work, sometimes you end up putting something in cause you’re like, well I want that person to feel like their ideas are validated and valuable and I want to include that person ’cause their voice is important for this story and then you end up with sort of something that’s a jumble of a bunch of stuff and it doesn’t really hold together as a piece.

Drew: Yeah.

Lauren : Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back, Generation Q edition. One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. And you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the Talented Beast Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two a’s and on Twitter @analoca_ with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this EP, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Analyssa: 3, 2, 1. Quibble.

Drew: Qualms.

Riese: Quinn.

Analyssa : What’d you say?

Riese: Well, first I was really, I was just going to say quince meat and then I looked at Anna’s face and I thought, she doesn’t deserve this. So then I said Quinn, because I was thinking she was T-boned.

Drew: I do remember that. I said qualms because I have many qualms.

Analyssa: I said quibbles.

Drew: Because you have many quibbles. That’s beautiful.

Riese: Quibbles or Qualms.

Drew: I hope you’re all doing wonderful out in the world.

Riese: We love you.

Drew: We love you and maybe…

Riese: Maybe next week will be really fun.

Drew: And also just a reminder that there’s luckily a lot more queer media out there other than The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Like my recaps of The L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Number one.

Drew: I mean, it’s really nice that this show still brings us all together and it’s one of my favorite things about it. I love chatting with my pals, chatting with all of you. But just a reminder, there are several great TV shows, several great movies every year. Not as many as there should be, but there are some. Yeah.

Riese: Also, if you want a To L and Back sticker, it’s like $1 in the Autostraddle store.

Drew: That’s a great deal.

Analyssa: Wow, that’s a deal. Happy New Year.

Drew: Happy New Year! 2023.

To L and Back: Generation Q Podcast 307: Messy Breakups and Bowling the Long Game

Hello and welcome to another episode of To L And Back, where we recap everyone’s beloved lesbian soap opera, The L Word: The Generation Q. In a world where there is a major social event every single weekend, it is now time for an album release party! Fletcher’s album release party, to be exact, which Dani is throwing, Micah and Maribel are cruising (for sperm donors), and Sophie wreaks sapphic chaos upon! And if that’s not enticing enough, there’s also skinny dipping!

Elsewhere, we’re delighted by a Carrie-Finley messaround, and Alice attempts to revisit a different ex this week: Tom! Delightful side plots ensue.

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SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s recap of Episode 307: Little Boxes
+ Shelli’s ICONIC phone contacts explainer
+ Our most recent piece about Ezra/Aria, which includes more links about this trope in television!
+ I think the reading was filmed at Skylight Books!
+ P-Valley made the TV Team’s list of best shows this year, and you can revisit the Vida love with Carmen’s review!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is To L and…

Riese: To L And Back: Generation Q Edition.

Analyssa: Generation Q Edition.

Riese: Edition. I said edition twice because I got confused why Ana wasn’t participating.

Analyssa: I always forget if I’m supposed to start on the To L And Back or just the Generation Q?

Riese: No, the whole thing. The whole enchilada.

Analyssa: I realized that half a second too late.

Riese: Yeah, well.

Drew: Yeah. How were your holidays?

Analyssa: I honestly kind of forgot that a holiday happened.

Drew: Yeah, I mean we’re recording this — you know we always record a little bit in advance — the holiday just happened.

Analyssa: Wait, more importantly, Drew, how was your birthday?

Drew: Oh, my birthday was amazing. I had such a good birthday. Maybe the best birthday of my life.

Analyssa: Oh my gosh.

Riese: Wow, really?

Drew: Because I had a birthday once, my 21st birthday. I hooked up with my sister’s friend who I’d had a crush on for years. So the fact that no chaotic things happened, but I was just like with my girlfriend and with friends and watched some good movies and got high and re-watched the musical episode of The L Word. Which I will say, big group of friends, drugs, the musical episode of The L Word was better.

Riese: Yeah, you warmed up to it a little?

Drew: I mean, no, I still don’t like it as a television episode, but the state I was in was better. It was very funny because Elise was also stoned and when it ended — and we were all making fun of it or whatever — Elise with tears in her eyes was like, “I liked that a lot.” How many drugs did you do?? But maybe none. Maybe just the power of sisterhood.

Analyssa: I was going to say, I was so, so sober when I watched it and I loved it.

Riese: Yeah, same.

Analyssa: I know it’s a shock to find out I was sober when I watched an episode of The L Word, but I loved it. Isn’t it nice when you start to have birthdays where you’re like, I just felt loved and included and that made me happy and that was a great birthday.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Isn’t that such a nice feeling?

Drew: Being gay means that I actually have quite a few people who are… Not to, well obviously, family’s… Well, I don’t know. But for most of my life it was even though… Everyone I knew was busy on Christmas Eve. And now I know enough people who are Jewish, or relatively secular, or have complicated issues with their family, that I sort of have, well, a handful of friends who are still in town and that was really nice.

Analyssa: Drew is sweetly talking around the fact that I was not available for her birthday party.

Drew: No, I didn’t see either of you on my actual birthday and that is fine, but I was…

Riese: But I was at your birthday party.

Drew: You were. You were at my surprise birthday party.

Riese: Right. But it wasn’t a surprise.

Drew: Right, but I didn’t plan it.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Anyway, should we talk about The L Word?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: It is fun to think about though when there is a party, I always think, well this is the big event of the episode. It’s the surprise party episode!

And this week it’s Fletcher’s album release party. So this is episode 307: Little Boxes directed by Em Weinstein, who has directed a lot of this season. Good for them. And was written by María Renée Prudencio, who has written mostly for Mexican TV and film, and then wrote on the Paramount Plus show Coyote, and then is writing for Gen Q. Let’s get into it.

This episode does start with the devastating breakup of last week. Finley gets in her car, is having some memory thoughts about drinking and is like, I need to make different choices. Calls Tess, Tess doesn’t answer. Calls Shane.

Riese: Tess. I swear to God. Tess.

Analyssa: I do know that Tess is going through her own thing. So this one I will give her a pass on. Has Tess answered her phone one time this season? Just out of curiosity.

Riese: Also could she just answer and be like, “I can’t right now.”

Analyssa: Right. Again, this one, super specific. But there’s been many times where you could be like, “Call me back in 15 minutes, I’ll be around.”

Riese: Shane picks up and they’re in the same car.

Drew: Tells Finley that Tess’s mom died and then is like, “But what’s up?” And Finley’s like, “No, no, no.” But I felt like there was maybe one more sentence that Shane could have said to just be like, “No, we’re just driving. Talk to us, bud.” Or I don’t know, something.

Riese: Yeah. I mean everybody deals with grief differently, obviously. I think I would’ve been like, yes, please tell me about your relationship drama because I’m going to be in this car going to Vegas for six hours and I would just really love to hear about something other than my internal monologue, which is absolute devastation and despair.

Analyssa: Right, which by the way, separate from grief, is the AA whole ethos. It’s call other people to get out of your head. So like…

Riese: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: This actually, I wrote in my notes, this is how AA calls do go sometimes. You call someone being like, “I’m having this crisis.” And they’re like, “Cool. Something absolutely devastating is happening to me also.” And then you’re like, “Wait, my problem isn’t as devastating as that. Sorry.” And then you start chatting with them about their stuff and it’s like, the point is not that people can strong-arm you into not drinking. It’s like that they can get you out of your own, for lack of a better word, kind of self-absorption or self-focus for that handful of minutes just to break you out of what you’re thinking about.

Riese: And realize we’re all in pain in some way.

Analyssa: Yeah, and we’re all going through stuff all the time. And yeah, that doesn’t mean that yours doesn’t hurt, but it’s not uniquely special. Which is a really big thing that AA wants you to know, is like you, yourself, and your problems are not entirely unique that you’re the only person who’s ever felt pain.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So anyway, I just actually think it would’ve been nice for Tess and Finley to maybe have a conversation at this juncture. But, I do understand that everyone reacts to grief differently and things are happening in Tess’s life, also.

Riese: Finley’s phone book was a little sad to me.

Analyssa: Really bleak.

Riese: I was like, wow. You have seven numbers in there.

Drew: Or it’s like…

Riese: Or they’re a minimalist.

Drew: Or like Shelli Autostraddle editor and all around cool person who… I think that she wrote an article about her contacts.

Riese: She did. Because when she explained how she does her iPhone contacts, I was like, we were just all stunned and we were like, you have to share this with the world.

Analyssa: Everyone was in awe.

Riese: But there’s a 0% chance that Finley’s brain is similar to Shelli’s brain in that way. I feel like everyone Finley’s ever known, she’s put into her little phone.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Where she ends up being, it turns out the perfect place for her to end up, for me personally, with respect to my enjoyment of this episode, which is Carrie’s. And Carrie is really nice and says they have a no shoe household.

Drew: Which I support.

Riese: Yeah, everyone take your shoes off.

Analyssa: Yeah, I always take my shoes off. It’s very rare for me, actually, to not take my shoes off in the house.

Riese: Yeah. I feel unsettled when they’re still on.

Analyssa: And then I just love… This actually is the perfect conclusion to that because Carrie is chattering enough to like… It’s totally, she wants to hear about Finley’s stuff, but also is in her own life and it was just very sweet and fun.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of duos I enjoy, Sophie got her nipples pierced.

Sophie: I got my nipples pierced last night.
Dani: No you didn’t.
Sophie: Yes I did!
Dani: You did not get your nipples pierced!
Sophie: Yes I did!

Riese: Which is a choice that a person could make if they wanted to.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: So that’s nice.

Drew: I really actually want to get my nipples pierced, but I don’t know if it’s going to happen at any point because I am… It took me so long to just get my cartilage ear piercing healed. And I’m like, if it took so long for that to heal, I don’t know if I’m wanting to risk the nipple piercing healing process.

Analyssa: I actually don’t think they take that long to heal. I would be speaking more certainly because I have one, but I don’t remember. It was a billion years ago. My brain is Swiss cheese at this point, so I have no real concrete evidence for that. I just don’t remember it being as difficult. My ear… I got my cartilage pierced this year, and it hurt way more for longer than I remember. But maybe it’s that thing about really intense pain, or what people say about childbirth, which is like two years after you’re kind of like, “Yeah, that wasn’t that bad.” Even though it was absolutely horrific when you were doing it.

Riese: Right. Excruciating. It’s hard to remember pain.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: The way that the bar is Tess’s child, I do think that my nipple piercings will someday be my children.

Riese: I don’t really like the word “nipples”.

Drew: What? Really?

Analyssa: Interesting.

Riese: And so if every time someone said, “Do you have any piercings?” I had to say nipples, I think I’d be upset about that. But also, I also hate the word belly and I do have to say belly button.

Analyssa: You have your belly button pierced?

Riese: I do. Yeah. And I know I’m at the age where I should take it out, but I just can’t. It’s the only thing on me that’s pierced. I got my ears pierced when I was 15 at a sketchy place that’d pierce a 15-year-old’s ears without their parents’ permission. And I kept them in for, I don’t know, three months, and then it was annoying with soccer to have to put the band-aids on or whatever. Anyway, it’s been now several decades since then, and they still haven’t closed all the way up. So let that be a warning to any 15-year-olds listening to this podcast that not only will your mom get mad at you, and not only will Miami Moon eventually go under, you will be able to get puss out of your ear for the rest of your life.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: And that’s another word I hate. Oh my God. I’m just ruining my own self today.

Drew: I’m so sorry. My God. So basically, Dani’s talking about the Fletcher release party. Micah wants to go because Micah really wants to meet Fletcher, which, okay. Micah?

Analyssa: What?

Drew: Anyways, Dani wants to invite Dre to Fletcher and…

Riese: Is that weird?

Drew: Yeah, we’re setting up the expedition of the episode and the future chaos. And then Dani looks at Sophie’s nipple piercings, which does feel like a next step of… I feel like seeing your ex naked is a next step of ex to friends.

Riese: Yeah, definitely.

Analyssa: I feel like this whole scene was a real graduation of ex to friends. They’re planning their nights together, they’re doing…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It was very deeply friends. And I had a funny moment where I remembered that Micah was also Dani’s ex. So they’re all just…

Riese: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: That’s queer community. This is the way that we live. I just made up a new melody for that. I made it into a medley.

Analyssa: Beautiful.

Drew: I loved it. Speaking of exes, Tom has arrived at the Alice show and runs into the glass door. And I really enjoyed when he said:

Tom: You might want to put a…
Alice: What? It’s a door.
Tom: Out of order sign on that side because I just looked like a bird crashing into a window.
Alice: But a lot of birds fly into a lot of windows. It’s… The stats are pretty dark. Anyway, hi!
Tom: Hi!

Drew: I enjoyed that.

Riese: Yeah. Have you ever run into a glass door?

Drew: All the time.

Analyssa: Thank you so much for asking, Riese. It’s like I set you up for this. I once gave myself a concussion doing this.

Riese: Huh?

Drew: Oh.

Riese: Fantastic.

Analyssa: I was, in fact, already previously concussed that year, and I just turned so fast and walked right into a door that I was dazed for a day. It was like, yep, sure did bruise my brain again.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: But I survived it, and so I laughed when Tom hit his little noggin.

Drew: Yeah, it was pretty funny.

Riese: He is such a light. He’s such a joy. You know what I mean? He’s so fun. He’s got such great energy. Yeah.

Drew: We learned that Tom proposed at the Eiffel Tower. Which, I know I was a jumbotron skeptic before, but compared to the Eiffel Tower, jumbotron is a great proposal. Like the Eiffel Tower? With Alice? You’re in France? You’re in Paris and you choose to propose at the Eiffel Tower to Alice? Like come on.

Riese: Just propose at the top of, I don’t know, the Empire State Building, the CN Tower, I don’t care. The tower in Las Vegas that has the ride on the top that my ex-boyfriend made me go on and it scarred me for life. I don’t know, just propose to her on a bridge. How many other people were proposing at the Eiffel Tower at the exact moment he was proposing to Alice?

Drew: I was thinking less of a skyscraper and more like a beautiful street in Montmartre or something. There’s so many places. Like, you know what I mean?

Riese: Yeah, or like her favorite existential author’s backyard on a literary tour, as if that’s one of Alice’s interests. But you know what I mean. The Eiffel Tower is so generic. A jumbotron at least is campy and funny.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Like that’s hilarious. Eiffel Tower, that’s not funny. That’s generic. That’s boring. He’s a literary person. He should come up with something better. I’ve never… Oh wait, actually, I have been to Paris, but I don’t remember it very well. So I’ve never been, but I have been. But I’m sure there’s better places.

Analyssa: I was in Paris literally this year and we declined to even go up the Eiffel Tower because it was like, it’s such an ordeal.

Riese: I have a picture of myself outside of it with my thumb up. But we were like, no, we’re not going up.

Analyssa: I looked up at it and I was like, big. They did that and then it was beautiful and then I moved on.

Riese: Yeah. Then my boyfriend was like, “Let’s go to McDonald’s.”

Drew: Proposal on Eiffel Tower, out. Wedding on the Eiffel Tower in Sense8, now that was a choice. That I respected. That was the next level. But anyways, Tom thinks that Alice wants to write book two and immediately starts chatting about writing a second book.

Analyssa: And because why would he think that she wants to get back together with him and she’s invited him to her office to discuss that? She set up an office meeting. What a silly way to go about that.

Riese: I hope he lives in LA. I hope he didn’t come all the way out from New York for this meeting. But I love his suggestions. I think his idea for a tongue in cheek self-help book is solid and she should pursue that line of inquiry.

Drew: I do think it sums up that Taylor was correct, that Alice is disconnected from reality. That she was like, “Well just come to the Alice show, and we’ll have a conversation about our future together as lovers.”

Riese: Yeah, I would definitely do that.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of ill-fated couples, Angie is going to that man’s reading.

Riese: I would rather die.

Drew: And her roommate gives her a whole box of condoms.

Riese: That makes no sense to me. You need… One night? You need, I don’t know, three absolute max condoms. Yeah. She was like, “You can never be too prepared.” And I was like, actually this is too prepared.

Analyssa: Maybe a little too prepared. I also, Drew, started calling him that man in my notes this week. Just that guy, that man.

Riese: I call him this man.

Analyssa: I think later my notes changed to Mr. Old Man. He’s, to be clear, my age. But compared to Angie, I’m like, get a job, stay away from her. Anyway, my college used to give you 30 free condoms every quarter and I took a whole…

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: Freshman year, when I went to visit my long-distance boyfriend for a weekend, I took all 30 of them and I don’t remember how many we went through. It’s not important now.

Riese: It is important.

Analyssa: But what is important is kind of is that they did have a bunch of different goofy kinds and we used a glow in the dark one that truly haunts me. It’s like the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s so unsexy.

Riese: Anyway, maybe the box was different flavors, like a variety pack.

Analyssa: I think they bought a bunch of different boxes, and you could go and pick. Which is funny to me because I feel like either I put my hand into just a mix of them and took whatever I could, or I specifically chose a glow in the dark condom for the joke of it. Which, unfortunately, shows you how invested I was in having…

Riese: Meaningful lovemaking?

Analyssa: Like romantic lovemaking at that time of my life.

Riese: You didn’t feel like making love?

Analyssa: No. Anyway, I came back from that trip with the UTI. Very exciting. Really good stuff.

Riese: She should have sent her with a box of cranberry pills.

Analyssa: Absolutely. If she’s handing out that many condoms, she should also be saying, “And make sure you pee right after. Thank you.”

Riese: Yeah. And drink some water.

Analyssa: I do want to say that Angie making this chapbook is the most lesbian gay little event…

Riese: So cute.

Analyssa: I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s so sweet.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: He does not deserve it.

Analyssa: It’s wasted.

Riese: Mm-hmm.

Drew: Wasted, wasted, wasted. Speaking of things that are wasted, Finley burns lasagna at Carrie’s and has a meltdown, which was very relatable to me because anytime I mess up any cooking thing, I do break down and decide that I’m not worth being alive on this planet. And I wish Rosie O’Donnell was there to hug me.

Riese: Yeah, when she was like, “May I approach?” And then she came over and hugged Finley and it was so adorable.

Analyssa: When she says, “Just let me approach”, after Finley kind of protests, I was just so heart eyes for her.

Riese: And then there was really accurate rec league sports representation.

Analyssa: I knew that you were going to say this exact phrase. I was like, this is for Riese.

Riese: Where you need a sub. Because if you don’t have enough players, you have to forfeit. And you need a sub, and the sub’s like, “I’m really bad.” Probably you and me had this conversation. The sub’s like, “I’m really bad.” And you’re like, “Well no one can be worse than me.” And then you sub. I think we made you sub for an entire season though.

Analyssa: I think this is, yeah, almost exactly how I started playing kickball occasionally on your kickball team.

Riese: Yeah. Anyway, so I was like this is so real. And that’s all. It was so real. So real. Everyone was being real.

Analyssa: I also think it’s very real that Finley is trying to come up with ways to contact Sophie. She’s like, “Well I can go get my non flip shoes.” And Carrie is like, “Absolutely not. Eyes on me.” It’s so nice to have a friend who will kind of bully you a little bit after a breakup ’cause you do want to do sometimes those things that are bad ideas. And it’s nice to have somebody outside of you being like, “I don’t think so.”

Drew: I definitely related more to Sophie’s handling of the breakup in this episode than I did Finley’s. I’m not a “reaching out to” person. I’m definitely a “make a fool of myself with new people” person.

Riese: Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely by the end of the night, if no one says, “You shouldn’t be single anymore. This isn’t working for the rest of us,” then I didn’t break up properly. I just want to make a real hard mess of literally everything. In the past, would want to do it as drunkly as possible, for maybe even a few weeks.

Analyssa: Hilariously, I’m both. I would be a messy going out rager kind of gal, and also I’m going to send you some messy texts while I’m doing that. So you know that I’m having fun but I kind of miss you. But…

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Because I always think then they win. I have problems. Anyways.

Riese: Oh yeah, they win.

Analyssa: Oh see, in my head actually that’s me winning. That’s me asserting my dominance. I get to do what I want. Anyway, that’s a deeply sick way of viewing it also.

Drew: Wow. Well we’re all sick in our own ways. Tom is still talking about this second book possibility, and then there’s a cat meow, and it becomes this fun little thing we do in this episode where there’s a ghost cat in the wall. And Alice is like, “I said there was a ghost cat. Everyone said there wasn’t a ghost cat.” And Tom’s like, “I hear the ghost cat.” And you’re like, wow is being the one mean you both hear the same ghost cat?

Riese: Yeah. That’s cat power.

Drew: Yeah, exactly.

Analyssa: This was a moment where I was like, okay, a little bit of sparkle between the two of them. They’re so fun together, and this really showed it for the time that they were doing this that I was very delighted.

Riese: They’re also just great comedic actors, both of them.

Analyssa: Yes, exactly.

Drew: I think, okay, I’m just thinking about this now. But I think it would’ve been really fun if in the first time we’re really seeing a proper relationship with a man that Alice has, if Alice had been top-ier, it would’ve been interesting to play with that. I’m just trying to think of what could be sexy between these two people. Because the sex scenes between them never were that sexy. And I’m like, how can queer heterosexuality on this queer show in a way that would’ve felt really hot between them? I don’t know. I just feel like they do have… The show, with all genders, has a very limited idea of what could be sexy, which we’ll get to later with Carrie and I don’t know, we’ll get to it. But I am like, they have a spark. And the fact that I don’t really buy them together as being that whatever is partially because the way that Alice’s sex is shown is so different. I don’t know. I’m just like, these two people could absolutely have hot sex.

Analyssa: And hot silly sex. It doesn’t have to be so serious, either. Yeah.

Drew: Anyways, Maribel’s still looking for a donor, very exhausted by it with hot sex.

Riese: Why haven’t they signed up for a real membership with the sperm bank? Because if you haven’t signed up for a real membership, then you can’t see pictures, and they’re still seeing just ghost people. They would’ve set up for a real membership. That’s all. That’s going to be my only nitpick of this issue, this episode. Thank you.

Drew: Micah’s like, let’s go out, let’s have sloppy sex. Which I was like, yes, I’d love to see you have sloppy sex. And then Sophie comes in and is like, “I’m going to get my hair done.” ‘Cause sometimes nipple Pierce sings aren’t enough? And…

Riese: Well, you always have to get your hair cut or done or something after a breakup.

Drew: Sure. And that’s when Mari’s like, okay, we actually should go to Fletcher to look after Sophie.

Riese: Yeah. Sisterhood is powerful.

Drew: Sisterhood literally is powerful. And then, we go to Dani telling Dre that Sophie is a good contact for them? Which is such an aggressive attempt to be like, this is just professional. And also, I don’t care that you had sex with my ex-fiance. Yeah. Dre’s confused and that seems fair. But they’re flirty and it’s fun.

Riese: Yeah. It’s obvious that they have sexual tension. Dre is open to more, and is trying to figure out why Dani’s acting like she’s open to more while saying that she’s not open to more. So that’s fun.

Analyssa: Yeah. Imagine someone telling you that your relationship is strictly professional and then they do that thing that Dani did to Dre’s chin, like tipping it up. I would be like, so you want to kiss right now?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Professionally you want to kiss? That’s what I’m hearing.

Riese: A professional kiss.

Analyssa: And yeah, there’s just a lot of meaningful eye contact and Dre’s like making jokes about skinny dipping.

Riese: I love this for everyone involved. Even the extras.

Analyssa: Anyone who got to be around.

Riese: I support them.

Analyssa: Speaking of flirting, Misty is adjusting Carrie’s bowling position in a way that is very close, very sensual. Finley wants to text Sophie. Carrie says no.

Riese: That was so funny, when Finley was like, “Here.” Carrie picked up and it was like:

Carrie: “Hi, Soph. Hope you’re well.” Well no, it’s not good. I’m deleting it.

Riese: You know?

Drew: Yeah. I support Carrie in this. And then Finley’s kind of roasting Carrie for not asking Misty out. Once again, all these ee names that they…

Riese: I know.

Drew: Wild, for not asking Misty out. And the Misty bowls a strike because Misty’s a good bowler.

Riese: I really liked Carrie also being like, “This is enough for me. I don’t need to ask her out. This is fine.” Which I think is a valid way to feel.

Analyssa: Totally.

Riese: I don’t know if she likes me back, but for now, this type of relationship, this is good. I’m happy with this. It doesn’t necessarily need to be escalated.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which Finely doesn’t buy.

Analyssa: I don’t have a fun transition for this next scene.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Angie and that man are in the hotel room where he’s pinging around with a lot of anxious energy for his reading, and he talks about how it’s bearing his soul to a bunch of people and everybody’s going to be looking at him. Angie gives him her little book as a trade-off of like, I’ll show you this part of my soul, too. And it’s very…

Drew: First she offers to iron his shirt.

Analyssa: Oh yeah. I didn’t even take notes on that part. I was so excited.

Drew: And was calming him down. It’s so annoying. Anyways, I guess the show is… I don’t know. Anyways, they fuck. And it’s like…

Riese: Do they?

Analyssa: No they don’t.

Riese: No they don’t. At least not… In the scene, do they even kiss? Do they start, do they kiss?

Analyssa: I don’t think they do anything this episode.

Drew: What? What is my notes? Why did I misread that? I totally thought that she gave the chapbook and then… I guess I need to rewatch this. I was so…

Riese: Well, I mean later she does say that she did, but I was going to talk about the time. But I was like, is she lying? Because I didn’t know. I don’t even remember them kissing in this scene.

Analyssa: I thought that was a lie later. Whoa.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Now I really want to open the scene right now. I feel like I… Wait, can we just, hold on one second.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: This is a To L and Back Breaking News.

Riese: We have to get a replay.

Analyssa: Beep, beep, beep, beep. Alert.

Riese: Coach’s cam. Oh, I see. She leads him to the bed and he says, “Are you sure?” And she says, “I’m sure.”

Hendrix: Are you sure?
Angie: I’m sure.

Riese: Maybe I stopped. I mean, I very well could’ve just been like, I don’t want to see this anymore and stopped watching.

Analyssa: Oh, I very much just tuned out of that. I feel like I’m seeing that for the first time. Well the good news is…

Riese: Me too.

Analyssa: I was still angry about how this whole thing went, anyway, so now I’m just clearer on why I’m angry.

Drew: I’m just glad that I didn’t make that up because that would be a very disturbing thing for my brain to assume.

Riese: Well, I fully just tuned out. But here’s the other thing that I was thinking about. So against all human decency, there’s a huge cohort of fans who loved Aria and Ezra’s run in Pretty Little Liars, even though they started sleeping together when he was her teacher in high school and she was like a sophomore, a junior in high school and he was a full-grown adult. But there’s tons and tons of Aria and Ezra shippers to the point where people are excited that their end game was actually getting married and adopting a baby. And I disagree with all of those people for obvious reasons, but they exist.

This problematic concept exists and thrives because it was a show that gave that relationship enough time and enough space that people, perhaps against their best wishes, but perhaps not, somehow grew endearing. Something about that dynamic became endearing to them in a way that it was more of a complicated choice for the show to make. Or like Pacey and his teacher in Dawson’s Creek, where people saw enough of the relationship that people were like, God, I hate this, but there’s something about this, their chemistry, that’s palpable or interesting to people in a way that makes people feel conflicted and that’s complicated and that’s art or whatever. But we’re not spending enough time with Angie or with this man to feel anything about them. I promise there’s not a single solitary soul on this planet that is rooting for these two. Not one person. No one likes it.

Drew: I get that eventually, I mean we’ll get to this, but I guess it is trying to say something, but it doesn’t do a particularly good job at it or do anything new.

Riese: No.

Drew: I mean, I think about a movie like Diary of a Teenage Girl that I think does such a good job at both validating the love and lust of the young girl and also shows the toll it takes and the ways in which it’s wrong. It is possible to do that in art. This isn’t doing really anything, in my opinion.

Riese: No.

Drew: And so it just feels weird and annoying. To me, it feels like I can, in my brain, think about first weeks of a writer’s room, going around being what happened to you in college? Let’s talk about our experiences. And someone’s like, I lost my virginity to my professor. And they’re like, Ooh, cool. And then they just run with that. And be like, what was that? And get into it and whatever. But is that the most interesting thing we could do with Angie? Is that the most interesting thing we could do with an entire generation of queer people on this show? It’s really not.

And so it just feels, I don’t know. The TV teacher reference point that I have the most is the Step by Step episode, where the teacher, I don’t remember the names of the characters in that show. But there was an episode where the teacher invites this teenage boy over and then sucks on his ear, and I’d never seen that done before, and it really left a mark on me as an eight-year-old. But he says no. He’s like, “This is bad” and gets up and leaves. And it was very clear in its teachings. But yeah, I don’t know.

Riese: I mean, there’s movies with this trope that people feel close, like Loving Annabelle, that people feel feelings about. But no one feels feelings about these two.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And maybe, I mean, honestly, maybe people would be feeling more feelings about this, too, if the teacher wasn’t a man.

Analyssa: Maybe.

Drew: Probably.

Analyssa: Well, but the thing that drives me nuts also is not just that he’s a man, but is that he is this specific type of man. Which is they get to this reading, and immediately he does not care about anything except himself. It just feels so icky to me in a way that I don’t understand why they didn’t try to make this a more compelling… I’m already going to be annoyed about it. So to your point, Riese, if it were a more compelling or interesting dynamic where you’re like, okay, I want to be opposed to this, but…

Riese: He’s treating her really well, or.

Analyssa: Something about the way these two interact is like really…

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I do think the show is making a point by having him be this way. I do think it’s not unrealistic that this man who’s immature and is full of himself and all. It’s honestly like I’m glad that it’s not romanticized at all. But then it’s confusing what the beats of this arc have been and why Angie coming into her sexuality has been framed as positive with him.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: I mean, again, it can be complicated, but I don’t think it’s being done well. I get there could be a point, but I’m like, it’s just a boring choice to me.

Riese: Yeah. And also his character is not that interesting or compelling. I don’t even, and we talked before about how Jordan has chemistry with everyone, but they don’t really have chemistry, and he’s never even made a funny joke. He’s so flat. And even in this scene, I’m like, you don’t really seem like you’re into it. He doesn’t seem like he’s into her except for when he says it again, the telling and not showing kind of thing.

Drew: Yeah. Well, going from my least favorite storyline in this episode to my second least favorite storyline in this episode, Micah meets a man at the bar named Michael and they’re like, we ordered the same drink, so you must be the person who should give me sperm.

Riese: That’s what I feel about everyone I’ve ever seen order a tequila shot, which used to be my drink. But now obviously I haven’t had tequila shot in quite some time.

Drew: Because Micah’s bisexual, at first I thought it was going to be a meet cute situation and then it was like, no, no, everyone cheats on this show except not Micah. Which I’m fine with, but I’m just like, no, that’s not the storyline. We’re still sticking with the sperm storyline. So I don’t know, it’s a brief moment. Oh, ’cause now we’re at the Fletcher party, so now it’s a bunch of little scenes like we do at our parties. ‘Cause then Sophie walks in and is blonde.

Riese: She looks amazing.

Analyssa: Looks bangin’.

Riese: Incredible.

Analyssa: I do want to say, and more power to her because she’s fresh off a breakup, a little overdressed. But you know what? She looks great. So, what are you going to do.

Drew: I’m still unclear about the time that Sophie and Dre spent together because Dre is like, “You didn’t tell me that you worked at the Alice show.” And Sophie was like, “Well, we didn’t do a lot of talking.” And I’m like, you spend a weekend together? You can’t be fucking, like, what? I’m so confused.

Analyssa: And also Maribel had opinions about them… If they were just fucking and just did it for one weekend, how did Maribel know that? There’s just so… It’s so unclear.

Riese: I think it’s possible. And I don’t like this idea because I love Sophie the character and it annoys me when people don’t like her as a character. It annoys me deeply. But what if she’s kind of a liar? Because she told Dre she was a documentary filmmaker. She chose to present herself in a certain way.

Analyssa: I kind of thought that she was honestly lying to Finley when she said it was just a weekend, just the way that it was delivered. But…

Riese: Well, she didn’t even tell Finley it was a weekend. She said they had sex once and saw each other one other time. She didn’t even tell Finley they spent a whole weekend together.

Analyssa: Right. And then she told Dani that it was a weekend, right?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So even when she said that to Finley and was like, “I don’t know,” twice, I was like, this just feels like when people kind of obscure the truth by talking around something. And then when she said a weekend to Dani, I was like, okay. I feel more bolstered in that. I will say that the documentary filmmaker thing didn’t bug me because I am also famously kind of a liar to people I hook up with. I don’t know, they don’t know me.

Sometimes I’m like, and this is not exactly a lie because I do write in fact for Autostraddle.com, but I will sometimes be like, “Oh yeah, I’m a writer.” And that’s not my full-time job that I do to make a living, which is what people ask when they’re asking “What do you do?” But sometimes it’s kind of aspirational, sometimes it’s kind of fun. So I can see a bunch of reasons that you might say that to someone who you don’t know super well, but there’s no reason given for it. If Sophie had been like, “Oh, I was living out kind of a dream” or “That’s what I want to be, but the Alice show pays the bills.”

Drew: Yeah, that actually didn’t bother me. But yeah, it is interesting. I think what’s bothering me is the way that Dre is talking to Sophie doesn’t feel like it was more than a weekend. I’m having a hard time getting a read on that. I would be like, oh, Sophie’s just lying, but Dre’s not talking to her… I don’t know, like even their exchange of being like, “Sorry, I didn’t text you back.” It makes it feel like the “you up?” text was the only text… I don’t know.

Riese: But isn’t that also a crazy thing for her to say? I’m sorry I didn’t text you back when you texted me “you up?” And I was in bed with my girlfriend who I was in a monogamous relationship with in that moment. I was like, really?

Analyssa: And said what? Yeah.

Riese: The night Finley returned from sober living. I mean, I think it was just a weekend. I think Sophie was telling the truth to Dani about that, and that’s the vibe I get from them. Or the vibe from Dre is that this was just a weekend for them, too. It wasn’t like a big deal.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest problem is that doing a year time jump and not thinking through what that means for all the characters instead of just a handful of characters is challenging. And that’s how it feels. It feels like some of the characters had a year time jump, some of the characters had a month time jump, and it’s sort of made this whole season feel a little bit muddled and confused.

Even just the sense of sometimes Dani’s going through a big breakup because her and Gigi were together for a year and a half. But then other times, it feels like there really wasn’t that much time that we missed. Like what was happening in their relationship? I guess she was going through a lot of dad’s stuff. Sorry to bring him up. It doesn’t ever really feel like… I don’t really know what happened in that year. If I was trying to write fanfic of what happened in that year, I would find it very hard to bridge these seasons.

So Micah’s telling Maribel about Michael. And again, he just met this man. I don’t understand any of this. It’s truly so weird and I don’t understand.

Analyssa: But Mari agrees to meet him. I thought the line, “It’d be kind of like we’re having a baby together” was super bizarre, by the way. They are having a baby together. I don’t know, just the wording of that is not… Who talks like that about the baby you’re going to have with a partner, no matter how it’s conceived? I don’t know. I just was like, what a weird choice.

Riese: I did like at least that Micah was like, “Oh, I don’t know for sure that he’s cis.”

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: I thought that was a good sort of note to the watcher, like you can’t be assuming these things about people from either direction or whatever.

Analyssa: I actually think that’s why the “It’d be like we’re having a baby together” line hit me so weirdly. Like those two next to each other, I was like, what are we trying to accomplish? I don’t know. It felt bizarre. But yes, I agree. I really did like that line.

Drew: Sure. We don’t know that he’s cis, we don’t know that he’s fertile, we don’t know that you would want to give his sperm to a stranger. There’s so much…

Analyssa: We don’t critically know him at all.

Riese: Yeah, and he’d have to go through a bunch of tests and stuff before.

Analyssa: I was thinking, Riese, about you talking to us about generally what that process looks like. And I was like, they have such a world ahead of them that they don’t even know about. But I do think that’s kind of sometimes how you feel about any sort of big life decision. Immediately you’re like, okay, well this is it. I figured it out. Yeah, this is what I want to do. And you start going down that path.

Riese: I definitely know people who’ve picked a known donor who reminded them of the non-caring partner or whatever. But usually it’s someone they know and not someone they just met at a bar.

Drew: And also if we were spending more time with these characters and it wasn’t so rushed, it could have been a thing where like sperm’s put on hold for a while, Micah meets a new friend. At a certain point, it becomes the storyline. It’s just so weird to rush it all into this one 10-minute interaction.

Then we go back, we go to Sophie and Dre. Dre’s talking about loving Newsies. I think because Sophie was talking about how the ayahuasca trip was musical.

Riese: I just want to say that I love Newsies, in case I was wondering. But the original film, which I saw in the 90s, I haven’t seen the musical adaptation. But I don’t need to ’cause the original film was perfect. Thank you for listening.

Drew: This is when Sophie’s like, “I should have texted you back.” And then Sophie kisses Dre. And Dre pulled away and is like, “I’m into someone else.” And Sophie leaves. And I got to say, that first rejection when you’re like… Especially when you end something because you’re coming in, you’re like, I need to be single. I need to do my thing. That first time you get rejected after that is so brutal, and I felt very sad for Sophie. And Sophie is drinking way too much. I was just like, oh God, oh God.

Riese: Okay. And then we see Sophie’s healthy and completely unlike Finley’s drinking behavior in action.

Analyssa: Totally different. I will say, to this show’s credit about drinking, one small win. I was like, if Sophie drunk texts Finley, I’m going to be furious.

Riese: I was like, I hope Sophie drunk texts Finley. I was like, text her, tell her, you want to get back together.

Analyssa: Sure, that would’ve been fine. But a sloppy drunk text from your ex when you are sober. It just would’ve felt so cruel writing wise. I would’ve been like, okay, why are we putting her through this?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But okay, at least there’s small mercies in that.

Riese: Mm-hmm.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of Sophie, Finley is speaking of Sophie to Misty, and Misty is finally like…

Misty: I’m going to butt in right there, if you don’t mind.
Finley: Of course, I’d love that.
Misty: I actually know a lot about your entire life because Carrie talks about you all the time.

Drew: I enjoyed that.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, this conversation’s over basically. And then Finley tries to talk to Misty about Carrie.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And is like, “Carrie’s into you.” And then Misty’s like, “Well, she’s not really my type.” And I’m like, what?

Drew: Yeah. I don’t understand this in the context of what eventually happens in this episode, which we can, I guess, address when it happens. But I don’t… There were so many other things that Misty could have said. Where Misty could have said nothing and just been like, “Oh, I need to go.” And then Carrie saw that and took it as a rejection. There’s so many other things, but saying.

Analyssa: Specifically, “Carrie’s not my type”, is that what you mean?

Drew: Yeah, like what?

Riese: I guess it was, I mean, my immediate assumption was like, Misty’s butch and she only wants to date femmes. Isn’t that what we’re supposed to think she means?

Analyssa: But then, I mean, we’ll talk about it when it comes back, but then later it doesn’t really get explained. I don’t know, it just, we’ll talk about it later. I just didn’t understand then. If it’s true that Misty thinks Carrie isn’t her type for whatever reason, then I don’t understand the thought change between that scene and when she comes back to Carrie’s house to bring her bowling bag.

Riese: Maybe she thinks they’re both tops.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I wonder what Tina and Carrie’s sex was like. I mean, who knows?

Riese: Yeah. There is some bottom energy from Carrie.

Analyssa: Yeah, definitely.

Drew: They find the ghost cat, Tom and Alice. But then the cat runs away. It’s a real cat, I think, not a ghost at this point. It’s feeling like it’s a real cat. And I don’t know how long the cat has been in the wall or how it got there, but I’m going with it. And then Alice asks Tom if they missed something real.

Analyssa: Simply nothing led to this conversation, but I’m happy for her.

Riese: Alice had to bring it up eventually.

Analyssa: She had to ask.

Riese: And then as soon as Alice is like, “Me and you, did we miss something real?” You see Tom and you know that man is seeing someone else.

Drew: Yep.

Riese: And indeed he is.

Analyssa: And indeed he is. And Alice says, “Is it serious?” And Tom says”

Tom: Kinda, I mean, she is pregnant.

Analyssa: I don’t know the specifics of their relationship, but a pregnancy is a little bit serious.

Riese: Yeah. Pretty serious.

Analyssa: More to me than “kinda” serious.

Riese: Well, I think he was joking, right?

Analyssa: Yeah, sure.

Riese: It was funny when he’s like, “I already got the bods, so I might as well be a dad.” He’s funny. I wish they could just be friends. He’d be great to have around.

Drew: Yeah. And oh God, okay, we go to the reading. We go to the reading where this man is reading his actual writing and…

Riese: No one wants to hear it.

Drew: It makes Jenny Schecter look like Leslie Jamison. It’s just such… It’s bad, terrible writing. I don’t enjoy it.

Analyssa: Remember how all of Jenny’s writing was actually Ilene Chaiken’s personal writing? Whose personal writing do you think this is?

Riese: I mean, Alice’s book also was kind of meddling. And I don’t get it because these are TV writers, there’s writers in the room, you know what I mean?

Analyssa: They’ve definitely written before.

Riese: But maybe they don’t want this man’s stuff to be good. Oh, I guess it has to be since there’s a literary agent at his reading.

Analyssa: Also, I think this was shot in Skylight, which is kind of fun.

Riese: I mean, I have met literary agents at readings, but they were readings with multiple authors, you know what I mean? So it’s like they might be going to see multiple authors read and see if there’s any potential clients there. Anyway.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, the CAA agent’s there, then the professor man tells the agent that Angie’s the student and it’s like, oh no.

Analyssa: Well, he introduces Angie to the agent and is like, “This is my student, Angie.” Which first of all, just generally in life, I want to remind everyone that you actually never have to introduce someone with your connection to them. You can literally just go, “This is Angie” and people will be like, “So nice to meet you.” Just if you ever want to avoid that particular situation.

Riese: Or you can be like, “This is Angie, she performed at my birthday party.” Or like, “This is Angie, she is my barista.” Or like, “This is Angie, I met her on this side of the road before this.” And then everyone’s like, “Oh, what’s that about?” And then you can have a whole conversation that’s not even real.

Drew: Anyways, from one random man to another. The random man, Michael, has agreed to be Maribel and Micah’s sperm donor.

Analyssa: They’re giving huge, “my wife and I saw you from across the bar and liked your vibe” vibes.

Riese: Yeah. Why not just have him impregnate Mari directly?

Drew: I think that’s legally complicated, also.

Analyssa: I was thinking about, remember in season one of The L Word when Bette and Tina are trying to find a sperm donor? And then they try to have sex with that guy. And he’s like:

Threesome Man: Why is it whenever dykes want to have sex with a guy, it’s only because they’re trying to steal his sperm.

Analyssa: What’s that man’s life story, what’s he got going on?

Riese: Right. I did think about this, thinking about that compared to now, why this felt so weird and that didn’t feel as weird. And some of it maybe is that I didn’t know that much about life, but I also feel like it was just a more perilous moment in time for a queer couple to be trying to obtain a baby in any way. And so it was like the most unorthodox of methods was considered more viable than it is now. But maybe it would’ve seemed ridiculous to me then if I had been older.

Drew: I do think it’s unfortunately indicative of a lot of the worst impulses of contemporary media. That it’s the same storyline written worse, but with one person is trans and one person has a disability, and that’s what people who aren’t trans and don’t have disabilities deem as progress. We’ll recycle our storylines, make them not as well written even when they weren’t even probably that well written to begin with, and plop you in and call it a day.

Sophie is drunk and it’s sad and awkward and she’s talking to this random woman. And the random woman seemed way too sober to be flirting with…. I mean, not to be whatever, but it doesn’t feel like this woman is at Sophie’s level of like, oh, they’re both sloppy and making a mistake. It feels like she’s pretty with it. And Sophie is very, very visibly not in a position where she should be hooking up with anyone.

Riese: Wait, was this one Sophie also took those pictures of herself in the photo booth?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: That was funny.

Analyssa: Yeah, she’s in the photo booth.

Riese: She was posing by herself, and then she wanted them to print really badly.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, this other girl is flirting with her. Who had complimented her dress earlier, and Sophie moves right along.

Analyssa: This is until later when it becomes not, I was like, okay, a small wind after getting batted down by Dre. Like, all right. Because yeah, Drew, like you said earlier. Post breakup, you’re like, I want to go out because I know I can be on the town. And then if no one engages, you’re just more sad.

Riese: No one cares that you’re on the town.

Analyssa: You want to be the next eligible bachelor when you break up immediately. So this was a fun… I was glad that she got at least a moment.

Drew: That one episode where Bette is suddenly single and at The Planet and is like everyone’s basically submitting their resume.

Riese: Yeah, when they meat tagged her.

Random Lesbian 1: This is so not a feminist thing to say, but there is a group of women over at the bar who have you meat tagged like nobody’s business.
Bette: I’m sorry?
Random Lesbian 2: Meat tag means that they’ve marked you as a hot item.
Random Lesbian 1: Those girls are lining up around the block to get on your dance card.
Bette: Great. My neighbors will love that.
Random Lesbian 1: FYI.

Riese: That’s what they call it. They said, “You’ve been meat tagged.” Which meant she was the next eligible bachelor. And I was like, no one has ever said that. And if they have, they should be too ashamed of themselves to put it on television.

Analyssa: That shouldn’t be like a capital M meat tagged.

Riese: Yeah, thank you.

Analyssa: So, Carrie and Finley are sort of arguing back at the bowling alley because Carrie overheard the end of Finley’s conversation and is like, “I was happy with how this was, I got to hang out with Misty sometimes and you didn’t have to try to meddle and everything. And now I can’t even be at this bowling league.”

Drew: Which I do think speaks to Carrie’s personality in a certain way where it’s like you didn’t even make a move. You could easily be like, “The kid is getting overzealous and trying to ship us. I’m just here to have fun and bowl. Don’t worry.” You could easily play it off. So I don’t know if she really needs to be like… But I think she’s just, her feelings are hurt and she’s feeling vulnerable and rejected.

Riese: And then she’s like, “Go get your shoes. We’re going to go home” or “it’s time to go home” or whatever. And Finley’s so surprised because Finley assumed that this would be it, Carrie would not want to talk to her anymore. And I thought it was really sweet because someone was showing Finley unconditional love in the way that someone would hope their parents would.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: It was probably my favorite moment of the episode, honestly, was when Finley was like, “Oh my God, I’m still invited.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: She’s not going to cut me out for this, she’s still here for me.

Analyssa: We had this fight. I did something wrong, but we are still connected. It’s not like an end to something.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Speaking of the end of something, this is the end to the old man story with Angie. I didn’t really understand this breakup. Like I’m happy they broke up, but I didn’t understand the words that were happening, so…

Drew: Yeah, I don’t get it either. I think she’s mad about him introducing her just as his student and he’s like, “But you are my student and I’ve really grappled with this. I grappled with it earlier when we were having sex, maybe.” And then he’s like, “But I am falling in love with you.” And I wasn’t clear if he was like, I want you to drop my class, or if he was being like, let’s reconnect in five years. It was very unclear what was happening. And Angie doesn’t really wait around for an explanation and just, it’s done, I guess?

Riese: I don’t understand why he didn’t mention… ‘Cause he’s saying like, you are my student, so this isn’t the best time for us. Why it didn’t come up at any point that he could say, “And also, I could lose my job and probably never be able to work anywhere again except maybe like a Catholic university.”

Analyssa: I don’t know, it just didn’t add up to anything for me. But honestly, this is the only time in L Word history that I’m like, okay, great. I don’t understand why they did this, but sure.

Riese: I was glad they broke up, but I felt like they were dancing around it and I was like, just get into it. Just talk about it. What does it really mean that she’s your student? What does it mean for you? Why is this inappropriate? Say it, say it!

Analyssa: And also, why is it coming up now?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: There’s a bunch of things to discuss here that just didn’t get discussed and instead, it’s like these, again, just platitudes of, I don’t know. It doesn’t add up to anything, but Angie is like, I’m not going to sit around and listen to this. And she leaves.

Drew: Yeah. Then we go back to the Fletcher party. Fletcher is doing shots with Dre.

Analyssa: Not very professional. I’ll say.

Drew: No. And it’s like, “It’s so cool to be a part of the beginning of your ride” or I don’t know, it’s whatever. Dre gives Fletcher a crystal. Fletcher’s on the show, good for Fletcher, happy for you. Then Dre and Dani flirt and keep flirting. And it’s enjoyable to watch these two flirt. I’m going to say it.

Analyssa: I like flustered Dani. I when she’s a little bit frustrated with Dre. And Dre’s joking about how invested Dani is in things that are happening at the party with Dre, especially Sophie kissing Dre and being like, “Are you interested in a professional sense? What’s going on?” And it just really gets Dani out of it. It knocks her off balance in a way that I think is fun to watch.

Riese: And then Fletcher performs, right?

Drew: Mm-hmm.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. She performs “Becky’s So Hot” which is now stuck in my head.

Analyssa: This is the longest of this song I’ve heard. I was just like, when something gets too big, too fast, a personal feeling of mine is that instantly I’m like, absolutely not. I’m divesting from that, actually. So I’ve never heard that full song, and this wasn’t the full song, but it is more of it than I’ve heard previously, which was just the audio being used under other videos popping up on my For You Page, without any input from me.

Riese: I thought it was… I enjoyed the performance. Then Sophie and her new lady of the night are hooking up, and they’re like dancing. They’re dancing right by the pool, which is danger. Everybody knows that. And then it turns out that the girl that Sophie’s been hooking up with is Michael’s wife. And he comes over to yell at them, and Sophie falls in the pool, and Fletcher stops singing.

Drew: Yeah, good for Fletcher. Good for fictional Fletcher.

Riese: Other people just let people literally die at their concerts and they keep singing. But Fletcher was like, wow, someone’s in the pool. Let’s slow this down.

Analyssa: Let’s take a pause.

Riese: Let’s take a pause.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Really gutsy, I would say, of this woman to be hooking up with Sophie at a party she went to with her husband. Not just hooking up, but pursuing her at this party.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Interesting choice. Interesting marriage they must be having.

Drew: Yeah, also, I just feel like the man who is very quick to be like, yeah, this is amazing, have my sperm, would actually be like, cool, my wife’s making out with someone hot over there. It was interesting to me that the choice was made, that it was… I don’t know, I just still don’t understand. Is the man going to come back? Is he still going to be the sperm donor? Is this storyline going to continue?

Riese: Oh no.

Drew: So I don’t understand anything happening here. I don’t like it, and I wish it would end.

Riese: I thought it was fine. I had a nice time.

Drew: So stupid. Look, I’m coming off the holidays and the musical episode, so I’m maybe grumpy still. But I’m just like, okay. I did gasp. And the fact that The L Word can still surprise me with their based in reality, not based in reality, twists is something, I suppose.

We then go to Alice basically going through her dating history with Tom to be like, “Okay, so if you’re not the one, who is the one?” Tom brings up Tasha.

Riese: Finally someone brings up Tasha.

Analyssa: Finally someone says it.

Drew: And we find out that Tasha ghosted?

Riese: That doesn’t make any sense. On the show itself, they were together for at least I would say, two or three years. And Alice says they were together for a really long time. So I’m guessing we’re looking at least five years here. I’m also assuming, because this is how things left off, that they are cohabitating.

Analyssa: Living together.

Riese: You don’t just ghost your roommate. You don’t ghost someone of five years because you think they’re getting too successful off of their podcast. Maybe their visions of life didn’t jive, but like what?

Drew: Yeah, I have nothing to add. I truly was just like, are we meant to think that Alice is being dramatic? And that Tasha broke up with her, and then moved out? And then Alice was like, let’s keep talking. And then Tasha stopped responding and then it’s like…

Riese: Right, which is what Tasha would do.

Drew: Yeah, that was sort of my mental justification. I wish I didn’t have to spend so much of these episodes justifying things in my brain that could just have been clearer. But that was my justification.

Riese: Tasha’s definitely the type who would have really firm boundaries. If Alice is like, well, we can still stay friends, Tasha would be like, absolutely not. I need space to move on. That’s how she would’ve been. But I don’t know. Does it mean anything that they’re bringing up, Tasha?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: I couldn’t tell.

Riese: I couldn’t tell either. Are we supposed to figure out, is Dana saying you’ve already missed the one, I knew them in a way, is this a clue we’re supposed to be decoding? Or is it just a thing that someone said and then it’ll be plowed over?

Drew: It’s also something, Alice’s brain… I mean, no offense if you believe in an afterlife and think ayahuasca’s the window into that, but it’s a thing Alice’s brain said through Dana.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: It’s also like… Yeah, I also don’t know if eventually… I mean, my guess is that eventually Taylor’s coming back. That’s my prediction based in nothing, is that Taylor comes back and we find out Taylor was a big tennis fan or something. And so that I knew you in a way, is that casual coffee cart-owning Taylor who just wanted to take things slow and Alice was going too fast, loved tennis and loved Dana. Or Dana was the reason why she came out, or something like that. That’s my guess. That’s my prediction.

Riese: Oh wow. Or she was Dana’s barista.

Analyssa: Yeah, there’s a ton of different ways to work she knew me in a way back, or they knew me in a way back into anyone’s backstory.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: “Oh, you knew Dana? Like I x, y.” You know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Well, I hope it’s Lara.

Drew: Or Dana’s being a little bit transphobic, and it’s actually Jen Richards coming onto the show as Lisa, and Dana’s like, “Well, she didn’t know me when she was actually out.” And that could also be the explanation. I don’t know. I don’t know if Jen Richards would want to be Lisa the lesbian man on The L Word: Generation Q. I’m just casting her. Sorry, Jen.

Analyssa: For some reason I was like, what about Melanie Lynskey?

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Remember that?

Analyssa: What happened to that character. Bring her back.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, I would love that.

Riese: She’s like a little costume designer.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Melanie Lynskey. God, Alice had a lot of good… Like the vampire, Melanie Lynskey.

Riese: Mm-hmm.

Analyssa: Okay, so they save the cat.

Drew: Very cute cat.

Riese: Really cute.

Analyssa: And they’re talking about how to rescue it and set it up in a home. And obviously Alice is going to keep this cat.

Riese: Kitten.

Analyssa: It’s too cute to not keep this cat.

Drew: No.

Riese: Did she know that usually people don’t put cats in TV shows or movies because they’re not that easy to train. And so they mess up takes by doing different things every time.

Analyssa: By doing cat behaviors.

Riese: By acting like cats. But I noticed in this episode that every time the kitten is in the scene, she’s being held by somebody. So she doesn’t actually have to make any independent movies… An independent film. The cat is not necessarily an independent filmmaker. She does work with major studios. But she’s always being held, right. She’s always being held. She doesn’t ever move on her own volition.

Drew: I really enjoyed that. Then we go back to the Fletcher Party. Dani’s putting Sophie in an Uber and very much trusting this Uber driver to be like, make sure she gets home. Who is this man?

Analyssa: I think it’s a town car.

Drew: Oh, that makes sense.

Analyssa: I had the same thought. I was like, why would you ever tell an Uber driver she might puke in the back of your car? And then I was like, no, this is…

Riese: Yeah, don’t tell them. Just let it be a surprise.

Analyssa: Yeah. Don’t tell them because they’re going to preemptively charge you for the cleaning fee. Which, honestly, don’t ever puke in the back of someone’s car, even if they are Uber. But, I think this is a town car.

Drew: Yeah. I forgot that rich people. But I was also like, why wouldn’t Micah and Maribel leave with her? Aren’t they trying to get out there quick anyways, to avoid their Michael drama?

Riese: Well, Micah still hasn’t met Fletcher.

Analyssa: Probably, good point.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Riese: But Sophie tells Dani that she should go get it with Dre, thank God. But also it’s cute. I like that Dani’s caring for Sophie, then they say they love each other. She pulls her away and I’m like, I like this. I love this journey for them.

Analyssa: I like this dynamic that they’ve arrived at.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I also did think for one minute that they were going to set up a “may the best gal win” kind of thing. Maybe it was just the blocking, but the way they were looking at each other, I was like, oh my God, is this going to be a contest? And then Sophie is like, “You should go after it.” And I was like, okay. Fun. Growth.

Drew: Yeah. And then Fletcher acts as a sort of, what’s the right, like a…

Riese: Sage?

Drew: Yeah. And tells Dani that “Sometimes messy is better.” Which is definitely the lesson. Everyone in The L Word needs to learn. That’s the thing missing right now is… And speaking of things that are successful, Finley makes the lasagna and it turns out well.

Riese: What does the oven is too hot mean? Doesn’t that just mean you made, did you turn the temperature on too high?

Analyssa: Yes. Definitely.

Riese: Like, the oven, it… Okay. Sorry.

Analyssa: Where does Finley live now?

Riese: With Carrie.

Analyssa: With Carrie?

Riese: Yeah, for sure. Finley has moved in, right?

Drew: I was so confused about this. I didn’t know.

Analyssa: Okay, great.

Riese: I’m pretty sure that Finley has moved in.

Analyssa: But the doorbell rings and it’s Misty.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Who is bringing Carrie’s bowling bag back and yeah, doesn’t at any point offer any explanation for the conversation she had with Finley, which just drove me a little bit nuts.

Drew: If it is a too butch’s thing, which just feels very outdated. But I guess they’re older. But, could she could be like, “I’ve really only dated femmes, but I do like you and I want to see where this goes.” There could have been something where we got, but instead it’s just like, wait, why did you say that earlier? If you are now going to…

Analyssa: Yeah, because what does she say? She says like…

Riese: She said she’s not used to being chased. Which, Carrie’s like…

Carrie: Chased is funny because I don’t run.

Riese: Which I thought, again, was maybe that whole, “I’m the butch and I pursued the femme kind of thing.” Like that was…

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: You know, come on, let’s just say how we feel everyone. It’s 2022.

Analyssa: I just wish that Misty had been like, “I realized this about you, and that’s what brought me back to your doorstep.” And instead she just says, “I’m not used to being chased. Here I am.” And I was like, okay. What’s the middle part between those two? What’s the connection between those two?

Drew: Yeah. I don’t really get it. And then speaking of things, I don’t get, Angie returns home. Very sad. Angie’s like, “We broke up” and is like, “We did have sex, but then we broke up.” And I really thought the roommate was going to be like, “Wait, you fucked, and then he broke up with you?” Address it in some way. Be like, “what an asshole” or something.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Something to point us towards the fact that the show knows what is happening and it doesn’t feel like they do.

Riese: And she cries in her roommate’s arms. And I will say this is the first one where I thought, maybe could make out later.

Analyssa: I just don’t understand why they did this.

Drew: I don’t understand any of it. Alice asks the cat if the cat is the one. I mean, that’s what Dana did say, we have cat. And now look at… So maybe Dana predicted, this is what Dana was talking about. Cat.

Riese: Yeah. And she’s going to name the cat after Mr. Piddles. So in a way, Dana did know the cat because the cat is going to have the same name as Mr. Piddles. It’ll be like Mr. Piddles 2, or whatever.

Analyssa: Do you think that the Piddles 2 reference is a Sounder 2 reference?

Riese: Right, that’s what I was going to say. Which in my mind, is absolutely a hundred percent a throwback reference to Sounder number two.

Drew: I don’t think that’s a very good name. Sorry if you named after The L Word, your cat, Mr. Piddles. But I just feel like Mr. Piddles 2 feels like a really intense name in a way that I don’t enjoy. And I think that cute cat deserves better.

Riese: I love it.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I want Alice to take this cat to the vet immediately. She got it so close to her face. I’m so nervous.

Riese: Yeah. Taylor’s eyes are going to be lighting up like switchboard if she comes over.

Analyssa: Then we go back to Carrie and Misty. Finley is like, “Here’s the lasagna. It’s perfect and beautiful and I’m going to leave you guys to your date.” And then they kiss.

Drew: Yes. And then we get a little sort of montage moment. We get a brief, but cherished moment of Micah and Maribel, I guess, what their definition of sloppy fucking is. It actually is the sexiest. The previous sex scene with them was very tender, which is very nice. We love tender sex. Love it, love it, love it. But this is the first time we’ve been like, oh cool, we’re watching them fuck. But it’s brief. And then we go to Sophie. Is she filling out a grant application while blackout drunk?

Riese: I guess she’s sobered up really fast. First of all, she yells that she could hear them, which is funny. It seems like she maybe started filling this out earlier, I hope? I don’t know. But did you pause and see what her previous…

Drew: No.

Riese: Her student film was called Conviction, and it was about the criminal justice system in LA. It was focused on former Attorney General Kamala Harris.

Drew: Huh.

Analyssa: Huh.

Riese: And also she has a undergrad and a master’s degree, which I didn’t remember.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: She went to USC for grad school. Actually, that probably has been mentioned before and I just forgot it.

Analyssa: Yeah, maybe…

Riese: Anyway, obviously I paused over and over again on this. But her little segment, the segment about the LGBT icons or whatever that she did for the Alice show was also on that resume, there’s something else that I don’t remember off the top of my head, but it was… There’s never a better time to apply for something when you are drunk and just fell in a pool. ‘Cause that’s when you’re really feeling like an artist, I think.

Drew: Mm-hmm.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese:And that’s authenticity.

Drew: Finley texts Sophie, what does this text say?

Riese: Thinking of you.

Analyssa: Thinking of you.

Drew: Thinking of you. And then Sophie hearts it?

Riese: Yeah, she does.

Drew: Which is… Just don’t respond. My God, that is so brutal. That feels way worse than…

Riese: I was so happy for Finley. That Sophie heart it. It was the perfect response that was not giving her too much hope, but also not sending her on a spiral.

Drew: Wow. People are all so different. I would so much rather someone not respond to that than giving a heart. I would…

Riese: Oh my God, I would so prefer the heart.

Drew: Anyways. Finley’s mom calls. So that’s something we’re going to deal with.

Riese: Yeah. I’m like, they can’t make someone else’s parents sick, right?

Analyssa: I was going to say. I was like, her dad is sick, right?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: But they just did that.

Riese: Or Mom is Carrie and she’s calling from downstairs to say, “You can clear the table now.”

Drew: That’s really funny.

Analyssa: “We’re done. Please load the dishwasher. Thank you.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Well…

Analyssa: And then Dre is skinny dipping at the party. There is a pool, the pool that was promised, and they are swimming in it. And then Dani comes and gets in.

Drew: Gets a little naked.

Riese: It turns out that, so Dre still has something with their girlfriend from Ohio and I’m not really sure. Them and their girlfriend were together since high school, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But they’re still single, or they still identify as single.

Drew: It’s always unclear to me when The L Word is introducing something for the sake of…

Riese: Filling space or…

Drew: Yeah. I’m like, is that person going to show up and be played by whatever? Or is it just they just like to say things sometimes. I don’t know. I guess we’ll see. But the exciting thing is that Dani and Dre kiss. And I like these two together. This is fun.

Riese: I do too.

Drew: It doesn’t make me feel better. Look, I could potentially these two more than Dani and Gigi, which I know is controversial to say, but I still want to know where Gigi went and why she’s not on the show anymore. I really actually do Dani and Dre a lot together. It’s a really nice dynamic in a way that… I don’t necessarily know if what Dani needed was another sort of…

Riese: Power?

Drew: Yeah, I actually think they have a fun balance in a way. I don’t know, it’s a good balance. But I do want to know where Gigi is. I mean, that’s not the point, and I should just enjoy these two hot people kissing, but like…

Riese: No really, where is Gigi? I don’t understand. Are they going to tell us at some point? We all found out that Jennifer Beals was going to be gone for a certain amount of episodes. But are we going to find out what happened with Gigi? And I guess according to angry comments on Showtime’s Instagram, Gigi is an amazing singer. So, it was…

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: Oh.

Riese: So it was like you’re do need to do a musical episode, but not with Gigi? How dare you.

Analyssa: Interesting.

Drew: Okay, so they’re kissing. The camera up from above. Beautiful shot. And that’s the episode.

So we have three episodes left in the season.

Riese: Mm-hmm.

Drew: Does feel like they’re kind of still setting a lot of stuff up, doesn’t it?

Riese: Yeah, it does. Does feel like a lot of stuff is getting set up, especially because in episode nine, Bette and Tina will be back, and I’m sure taking up a good amount of space. So what’s going to happen next week? I’m not really sure. This is the first episode of The L Word that did not include Shane.

Drew: Oh shit.

Analyssa: Oh.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, besides her voice when Finley called.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: So, now Alice is the only cast member who’s been in every single episode.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Drew: I can’t believe I totally missed that. Wow.

Riese: Honestly, I’m not a person who cares that much about sex scenes. And sometimes I pretend like I do because it’s fun to make jokes about, even though I don’t really personally care that much. But it is interesting to me that they are not doing any.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s very noticeable.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Because I’m kind of the same about sex scenes. They’re fun to talk about and exciting to have in a show. They’re always more drama or whatever, but I don’t really feel emotionally or personally attached to them. But it is very noticeable this season that nothing goes on too long, and they’re really rare, and they’re often like…

Drew: I’m watching Gen Q exclusively for the sex scenes, and so I’ve really noticed it. I do think that one of Gen Q‘s strengths was its sex scenes. And I do think that despite the amount of queer characters on TV, outside of Vida and P-Valley. What is it with Starz? Really crushing it. Only one show at a time, but really there aren’t that many good queer sex scenes on screen. There’s a lot of queer media that focuses on teenagers, and a lot of queer media that has a lot of kisses and still is pretty chased. And so I do think there’s a real value and a real loss to the outwards sex scenes, and then now lack of sex scenes. I do think there’s a specificity to showing queer sex and the various things that queer sex can be.

I mean, that’s something that I always loved about Vida was that, I mean, I think that’s what I was getting at with bringing up Tom and Alice sex scenes and what they could have been is like, the straight sex scenes on Vida were always doing something interesting, too. People of all sexualities have sex in all sorts of ways. And I think also, maybe this is an assumption, but I do think queer people, even if they’re dating someone who’s straight, often probably will have more interesting sex. I just think queer people in general have been forced to figure out how to have more interesting sex. And so I just think there’s any character, I don’t know Misty and Carrie kiss, but it’s like…

Riese: Well, I don’t think Rosie wants to do sex scenes.

Drew: I know that. But then why is that still our only butch character then?

Riese: Right. It’s also weird because now, what’s kind of great is that this series, Gen Q, as opposed to the original, it’s mostly queer actors. And the longest sex scene we’ve gotten this season has been the only one that was just straight actors in it, which was Jennifer Beals and Laurel Holloman. Which was great, and they do great sex scenes together. But it’s just interesting that they haven’t… And then also they’ve started them, but then cut away. I wasn’t sure. I felt like if this was season one, we would’ve seen Dani and Dre having sex and we barely did.

Analyssa: Or Micah and Mari for longer. That was the closest to an actual sex scene. But it just didn’t get to breathe in the same way that they used to. I don’t know what’s changed. It’s very interesting to…

Drew: Yeah, we also didn’t get the context of them going from our potential new sperm donor we were excited about, now is too entrenched in the drama of our chaotic people in our lives, to now we’re fucking. I would’ve loved to have something more.

Riese: I guess we had Shane and Ivy, but that also was so brief. And yeah, I do think one thing that they’ve done consistently well is have sex scenes. And so I’m like… I know this happened in The L Word in season four, I want to say, in the beginning of the season four. There were just suddenly no sex scenes, and they were cutting away. It was obviously a Showtime decree of some kind that this was too much. Because this was like 2000 and whatever, 2007. But where is this a new dawn and a new day, and we have all kinds of freedoms and one of them is the sex scenes.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t if I’m just feeling… I think this happened last season. It’s happening this season, where it’s like, I don’t know if this show’s getting worse or anything. I’m just… When the show is not on, I miss its specific brand of whatever. And then as the episodes keep rolling along, I’m like, we’re not doing anything with this. And I just get more and more frustrated. And it’s not that this episode was drastically lower in quality than the first few of the season. It’s more just that I’m like, right, okay. So we have a big event. There’s some sort of mishap and chaos. And I know that’s television and it’s meant to be a comfort of hitting the beats or whatever, but I’m just always, I’m not caring about the characters because of how sort of confusingly written they all are.

Riese: I mean, I still enjoyed this episode. There’s a lot I enjoyed about it, like Sophie’s chaos. And I loved the Finley and Carrie stuff so much. That was such a satisfying next step for Finley when I was really worried that the next step was going to be a fucking relapse storyline. So I really have adored that. And there’s obviously things I don’t like, like the Angie and the professor.

But in general, I enjoyed it. I love Fletcher performing on the show. I love… I’s been a while. The original series always had queer artists performing, and we haven’t had that in a while. And Alice and Tom have great banter. But I am wondering, because I feel like I start every season with, even if the first episode isn’t that good, I still have this excitement about it. And I think maybe what just happens is we start to see where things are going and we get confused and then frustrated.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: But also, I lost my favorite ship last week.

Analyssa: So you’re in mourning a little bit.

Riese: I’m still in mourning, but so is everyone. People are either mourning Bette and Tina’s disappearance, they’re morning Dani and Gigi. There’s, whatever, 17 of us mourning Sophie and Finley. But there’s just, wow.

Analyssa: I enjoyed it. I feel like, again, it always happens that I get to the end of it. I’m like, okay, fun episode. Sometimes watching The L Word feels like hanging out with your friends who are in a relationship and they fight a lot and they talk to you about it and you’re kind of like, “Maybe we shouldn’t be dating.” And then they ask you to hang out again and you’re like, “Okay, yeah, because I love my friends.” And then you do it again. You’re like, maybe I should change my relationship to these people and then they ask you to hang out again. I don’t know. I still show up every time and I just wish that my friends were making choices that made them happier. Do you know what I mean? What at the end of the day, that’s what I want. And I don’t know if in this context, in this metaphor, that’s become really muddled if my friends are The L Word characters themselves or The L Word writers, but somewhere in there I’m like, I’ll keep hanging out.

But you’re right, Riese, that the runway of excitement gets shorter and shorter every week because there’s fewer and fewer episodes to go, so you are running out of time to be like, maybe they’ll do this thing that I really was excited about. Or maybe they’ll follow this storyline that I think is really interesting. ‘Cause I feel like we’ve had fun guest stars and we’ve had fun little flashes of possibility. But you do just get midway through the season and you’re like, okay, what now?

It’s like, sometimes when I go to a movie that I don’t know anything about, and you get a while in and you’re like, okay, these are the plot lines… That these are the balls in the air that have to land before they end, like before the movie ends. And when you don’t know what those are, that’s really hard. But when you feel like they’ve all landed already, like all the guest stars I’ve been promised have showed up pretty much and all, you know what I mean?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: All that has happened. I’m like, I don’t know where we go from here.

Riese: Yeah. I’m hoping that there’ll be some end of season twists that we aren’t anticipating in the same way that the Sophie and Finley thing happened at the end of season one, where I’m like, oh, my ears perk up. Who knows what that’ll be.

Analyssa: Group wedding.

Riese: Yes. Everyone marries everyone.

Analyssa: Everyone is married off in one of those big post-gay marriage legalization, like huge.

Riese: Queen Latifah marries everybody. Like in that awards show where she.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Riese: Okay.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Lauren Klein: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @ToLandBack, and you can also email us at ToLAndBackCast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented Bee Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by Jax Co. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere @Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two A’s and on Twitter @analoca_ with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle, and of course the reason why we’re all here, Autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this ep, let’s hear some keywords from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1.

Riese: Quince meat.

Drew: Quizzical.

Analyssa: Queasy. I knew you were going to say Quince meat.

Riese: You can just feel it was time for another Quince meat.

Drew: What did you say, Ana?

Analyssa: You weren’t looking around frantically enough for a word. And I was like, I know it. I said queasy because I used that word in a text recently because I got kind of sick on Christmas Day. And I was like, wow, that’s a great Q-word to have locked and loaded. And it’s also how I feel about Angie spending the weekend with that professor.

Drew: Yeah, I said quizzical because that’s how certain storylines on this show make me feel.

Analyssa: That’s a good one.

Drew: Thanks.

Analyssa: Okay.

Drew: I’m going to relax because it’s between Christmas and New Year’s and I don’t have that much work to do and I’m going to enjoy that.

Analyssa: The No Man’s Land of the Year.

Drew: Fun stuff. Okay.

Analyssa: All right, bye.

Riese: Bye.

“To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 306: The Gen Q Musicale

Hold onto your hats because we have a musical episode! Not, sadly, a musical episode of this podcast, but this week The L Word finally graced us with the beauty of Rosanny Zayas voice, with the style of a 40s musical, and with an emotional gut punch of grief mixed with nostalgia mixed with TRUE LOVE.

Before all that happens though: Alice is taking her staff (and Shane!) on a work retreat to do some ayahuasca and soul searching. Alice, Sophie and Shane experience hallucinations that drop them into three different musicals as they seek answers to their most pressing questions! Will Shane finally realize she’s non-monogamous? Will Sophie figure out her sort of vague issue with Finley? Will Alice ever fall in love?! All this and more (namely, musical numbers!) await this week.

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SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s recap of Episode 306
+Drew and Riese’s Transparent musical finale thoughts, for proof they are in fact defenders of the musical!
+ The bisexual velvet couch joke, which has also been called the gay velvet couch
+ Becky’s So Hot explainer from Riese!
+ Drew’s iconic Glee thread
+ Drew’s piece about queer women in movie musicals
+ Drew’s essay about Transparent that Joey Soloway cited at the musical finale screening!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: I’m Analyssa.

Riese: I’m Riese.

Drew: This is-

Analyssa: Wait, when do I-

Drew: Generation Q edition.

Riese: No, I-

Drew: Is it because you both were thinking about singing it and then you didn’t commit to singing it? That was in my head. I had that thought.

Riese: I do have Bottoms Up, Bottoms Up stuck in my head, but we can talk about that. Great, let’s-

Analyssa: I’ve been thinking about making an imperfect harmony joke. Does that count?

Riese: I didn’t think about singing it because I’m a bad singer and no one wants to hear me sing.

Analyssa: I think that I am a bad singer who does think that people want to hear me sing.

Riese: Interesting.

Drew: I feel like one of you is lying to me and is actually a good singer.

Riese: It’s not me.

Drew: That’s my theory and I think it’s Analyssa because I know you like karaoke and I don’t know. I feel like you’re someone who is just exceptionally at least competent in everything you do. If you like karaoke, I have to imagine that you have a surprisingly great voice.

Analyssa: I think I have a charmingly average voice. You know what I mean? I’m selling it.

Drew: Like most of the cast of the L Word, Generation Q.

Analyssa: I’m selling it with feeling, which is actually I think what the cast of Generation Q-

Riese: Once more with feeling?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: I thought they were good singers. I guess we’ll talk about that in a minute.

Analyssa: I am so certain that this episode will have polarized us the most of any episode we’ve done yet. I’m certain of it.

Riese: The three of us?

Analyssa: The three of us. I think this is the one we’re going to be farthest apart on.

Drew: It’s interesting because I love musicals. I was a defender — Riese and I both on Autostraddle dot com were defenders — of the Transparent musicale finale. I went into this with hope, with dreams. To quote another famous lesbian musical, “Don’t shit on my dreams. It’s just my fantasy of what will probably be, but it won’t be.”

Riese: What musical is that from?

Analyssa: What musical is that?

Drew: That would be Girltrash: All Night Long.

Riese: Wow, wow, wow.

Analyssa: Do you want to tell us about this episode, Drew?

Drew: Sure, I would love to. This is episode 306, Questions For The Universe. It is directed by Nancy Mejia who we’ve talked about last week and it’s written by Allison Wong who was a writer on the unfortunately cut short fourth season of One Day At A Time.

This is her first season writing for Gen Q and then coming up soon wrote on Grease: Rise Of The Pink Ladies, which I’m so excited about because I love Grease and also I love the showrunner of that, Annabel Oakes. She’s one of my favorite people in the industry. I’m very excited for Grease: Rise Of The Pink Ladies, another musical television program.

Analyssa: That one’s going to be a musical?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s fun.

Drew: It’s Grease and grease is the-

Riese and drew: Is the word.

Ana: Nice, guys.

Drew: Should we get into the episode?

Riese: We should.

Drew: Shane is having a foursome. She doesn’t seem that into it. I’m also wondering why she didn’t just call Ivy. I’m also wondering why we couldn’t get a hot foursome before Shane realized that she’s not into it. Please, for my dying crops I just want one full complete hot sex scene this season.

Analyssa: Every sex scene this season feels so-

Riese: Almost.

Analyssa: Cut short or like no one is having fun or just not quite-

Riese: Right, this is not the first time Shane’s invited girls over to have sex while she sits in a corner brooding and drinking alcohol and looking really unhappy because of a relationship choice that she made herself.

Drew: It’s her thing.

Riese: It’s her kink really.

Analyssa: This episode opening with the song saying, [music plays] “This dyke wants to go all night,” was such, there was no dipping a toe into the music on this episode. It was just from the start we’re making choices.

Riese: I for one loved Alice’s tracksuit.

Analyssa: Yes, not you for one, that’s all of us.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Alice is on the phone with Sophie talking about a team building retreat that they are going on soon, which is very exciting. Then, we find out that, I mean we knew Shane was having the foursome at Alice’s place, but Alice is headed home and walks in on them and says, “That’s a lot of naked people on my velvet couch.”

Riese: Bisexual velvet couch.

Analyssa: That’s in my notes too. What a classic little bisexual moment. Do you feel like, Riese, when they talk about how the green velvet couch is bisexual do you think of your blue velvet couch as being in that family or what?

Riese: I think so. I don’t know what it means that I picked a blue one instead of a green one. I don’t know if that makes me more or less bisexual than someone who picked a green one, but I guess ultimately it’s really up to Wayfair.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Who am I-

Analyssa: To argue with the Wayfair-

Riese: To argue with the ways of Wayfair, an ethical boutique furniture haven?

Analyssa: Locally sourced.

Riese: Locally sourced.

Analyssa: Artisan.

Riese: Artisan furniture store, because those are the types of furniture stores I can afford to shop at.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Sure, speaking of smart shopping, Finley is looking through CarMax because apparently Shane and Tess are paying Finley well and now she wants to get a car and I love that for her. As someone who doesn’t have a car, I would love a car.

Riese: Have you tried CarMax?

Drew: I haven’t because it’s also gas and insurance. I’m not in a place where I can get a car.

Analyssa: My take on this is CarMax is paying Finley directly for this product placement of CarMax.

Riese: She’s an influencer.

Analyssa: This is the most I’ve heard someone say, “CarMax” in years.

Riese: Right, but it’s not a great sell for CarMax because immediately it is inconvenient for her to go see the car. Honestly, the scene, she walks in and Sophie is packing and she’s like, “What are you doing?” She doesn’t seem to know Sophie is going away for the weekend. What?

Drew: Riese, wait, what you don’t understand is that they need to justify the end of this episode by creating conflict that isn’t established in previous episodes. You forgot that.

Riese: It reminded me so much of Glee where they changed the whole plot of this relationship just because they wanted to use this one popular song in this week’s episode in a way that fit in with the plot. Finley seems to have wanted Sophie to give her a ride and Sophie is like, “Well, I can’t do that.”

Then, Sophie is like, “I won’t go on the trip. I’ll just give you a ride,” which reminds me deeply of things I have said in emotionally abusive relationships, which I didn’t think Sophie was in. Offering to cancel your weekend work trip to drive your– that’s what you do if you are in a really bad relationship.

Drew: It’s one of those things where this episode makes it so if you’re like, “Ugh, I would ship Sinley,” you don’t have an argument, but it’s who they are in this episode. I mean we’ll get to this multiple times throughout this, but I was like, “What?”

Analyssa: Right, and I can’t justify shipping Sinley in this episode, but let me convince you that the old Sinley, I did have a reason. I promise.

Riese: Also, in what universe? If you’re in a relationship with someone, especially someone you’re living with, you are acutely aware of their travel plans. There’s no relationship on earth. This is a suspension of disbelief that goes beyond Finley interrupting the wedding that Finley would not be aware that Sophie was going away for the weekend. What in the fucking hell?

Drew: Why not just have it be that Finley was like, “Oh, I thought you left tonight?” Sophie could be like, “Oh, well, I have to help Alice prep,” and Finley is like, “Oh.” It’s these little things that I’m like, “What?”

Analyssa: To not know about your live-in partner’s travel plans until the morning of, even last night they didn’t say anything about it. True, you’re right. It’s so much easier to be like, “Oh, I thought you were leaving in three hours. I thought you were going to drop me off in Reseda before you left.”

Riese: They even had to put Finley in a separate room so that she would be walking into the bedroom where Sophie was packing. At any point in blocking that, did someone think, “You know what? This doesn’t really add up, does it?”

Drew: I’m going to say something really brave right now, which is that I did improv in high school.

Analyssa: Safe space, but yikes.

Drew: I wasn’t the funniest person on my team or had the best jokes, had the whatever, but my function on that improv team in high school was that everyone else would be all chaos and funny, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I would justify these six different high school comedians with different ideas of what the scene should be and justified how it could all work together. I feel like The L Word: Generation Q needs someone to play that role to be like, “Yes, oh my God, great idea, I love it. I love it, more of this energy.” What if we wrote this one line so it makes 10% more sense?

Riese: Right, easy.

Analyssa: Also, the return to the Tess and Shane pattern of someone having a phone and texting in their hand half-heartedly and being angry, it’s not actually fighting. It just was the exact same. It was copy and paste from last week. I was like, “Oh, so they’re breaking up. This is the sign.” When you start texting angrily that means that you’re breaking up with your partner of a long time, perfect.

Drew: I will tell you this. I went into this episode thinking one of three couples were breaking up and two weren’t and I left this episode completely wrong about all of that. Shane says that she’s sorry to Alice and, as Alice is cleaning up, it’s very funny and blah, blah, blah.

Riese: I loved all the Shane and Alice stuff this episode.

Analyssa: As always, I love when The L Word characters are with their friends solving each other’s problems and goofing around. For some reason, as soon as they start kissing and talking about romantic relationships, I’m like, “Uh, hmm.”

Drew: Alice invites Shane to go do ayahuasca with her at her work retreat, which we’ll get to later, but I have questions about that. Then, we get to find out a little bit of plot about that. Ivy left because she got a job in New York. She won’t be on the retreat, which that’s the sort of thing where I go, “Yes, is that overly convenient? Sure, but at least you gave me something to hold onto.”

Analyssa: At least it makes sense that Ivy is not there.

Riese: They found a perfect way to bring it up. It wasn’t clunky exposition like Shane being like, “I can’t go. I hooked up with one of your coworkers.”

Analyssa: Excellent.

Drew: I do think that maybe a little bit less convenient of exposition, explanation would’ve been if she was like, “Oh, this is just our senior staff,” or whatever, which would also explain why you’re having, anyways again we’ll get to it.

Analyssa: Why are you comfortable doing drugs with your employees?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s not a chill “we are doing drugs.” It’s the plan that went out on the agenda is that we are doing ayahuasca at a work sanctioned event.

Drew: Also, I just am like what if Finley was still working in that office? There’s no one else sober who works on the Alice show. It’s just a weird- I don’t need to think about it that hard. I get it, but it’s just weird that a show that’s trying to engage with sobriety would just casually be like-

Riese: It’s not.

Drew: “Oop, we’re doing a whole thing and we’re having, we’re just doing drugs.” I would love to do ayahuasca with Alice. That sounds very fun for me personally. It’s also just like why? I guess it’s because they wanted it to be like, “Alice, you think you’re doing this work retreat, but whatever.” It could have been Alice was like, “I’m taking Sophie to do ayahuasca because she’s never done it before. You should come.” I’m just so baffled.

Analyssa: Then, who would all of the background dancers have been?

Riese: Who would the background dancers be?

Analyssa: Answer that question, Drew.

Drew: Other people, other strangers on the ayahuasca retreat, I don’t know. I’ve never gone to-

Riese: It could be on the retreat.

Drew: I don’t know. All I know is that I would never want to do drugs in this environment because the group leader’s name is Mercury and she’s just this healer white woman who’s like, “Yes.” It’s satirizing her. I was like, “I don’t think I’d feel safe doing drugs here. I don’t think this is where I’d want to be tripping.”

Riese: I love that when they were getting off the bus and getting their little juices and spritzes and stuff the way Shane was acting was completely original series Shane, her walk and even her outfit. I was just like, “I miss this.”

This low key burnout Shane just feels like such a richer character to me I guess and her putting her arm around Sophie and being like, “Do it for the drugs.” I’m just like, “Yeah, I know this person,” and all of the dialogue. I love the three of them together because they’re three such strong actors and strong characters. I don’t know. I really enjoyed all that stuff.

Drew: I do agree with that. At some point in my notes right here, I wrote, wait, Taylor is really gone. One of those lines of dialogue must have convinced me I was totally off. They all are told to write down their intentions. Alice says, “Will I ever find the one?” Shane says, “Why do I blow shit up?” Sophie says, “Is Finley right for me,” a question that she didn’t seem to be asking until this episode.

Riese: I can answer it, yes.

Analyssa: Listen to us, yes.

Riese: Listen to us.

Drew: Then, Shane says,

Shane: “Please don’t let this turn into a musical”

Drew: ...which I will be screen capping and including on the Instagram post.

Analyssa: They did that for us.

Drew: We got our first number.

Riese: Have a nice trip.

Drew: I just wrote have a nice trip in quotes.

Riese: It did have really strong Transparent musicale finale vibes, but unfortunately I loved it.

Analyssa: Me too.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: I loved it.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Here’s one thing about me. As soon as people are singing and doing a little dancey dance on their screen, on my screen for me I’m sold.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: That’s enough for me.

Riese: Bless it.

Analyssa: I am famously a Grey’s Anatomy musical episode apologist and they don’t even dance in that. They’re just singing pop songs. I love it. I love it.

Drew: I’m just going to say I’m going to try to not be too much of a Scrooge, but I really did think that this might be my least favorite episode of The L Word: Generation Q.

(Riese and Analyssa gasp)

Riese: My God, except for the Finley, Sophie stuff, which I obviously am deeply upset about, I loved it.

Analyssa: Me too.

Drew: I’m so happy for you both and I’m happy for listeners who agree. This is the reason why I was frustrated with it primarily because I don’t need it to be great. The songs are so generic and when I think about what I would want from an L Word musical it’s to have a few fun musical theater songs that I can listen to that have to do with lesbians. I think about something like The Prom, which I was a defender of, which-

Riese: I enjoyed that.

Drew: Literally-

Riese: Again, like Ana said, singing and dancing for me on my TV, I’m in.

Analyssa: I’m in.

Drew: “Note to self, don’t be gay In Indiana,” that song is so good because you have this thing where you’re like, “Oh, right, this is a gay musical.” To have an L Word musical where the songs, literally the hooks are, “Have a nice trip,” “You’re the one,” I need to choose myself,” these platitudes, it’s the same issue I had in the last episode with the Shane, Tess fight scenes. I’m just like, “Give me something. Give me something beyond where I couldn’t take this song and put it on any other show on television.”

Riese: Bottoms Up, Bottoms Up is gay if you think about it.

Drew: I guess so. Sure, but I don’t know. I just was so underwhelmed. None of these songs I want to listen to.

Riese: Sure.

Drew: It just feels like what a missed opportunity. I just-

Riese: Sure.

Drew: And it just feels like what a missed opportunity. I just think about four seasons of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend where-

Riese: Oh God, what a good show.

Analyssa: Yeah, I mean-

Drew: It had at least one song that I listened to for pleasure on Spotify per episode, and sometimes there’d be three songs an episode. And not everyone’s Rachel Bloom, but it just feels like if you’re going to do a musical episode, why not… I still have songs from the Transparent musicale finale stuck in my head. There is not a single song in this episode. There are some songs that are better than others and there are some scenes that in the context of watching it I was like, yeah, sure, this is totally fine or good or whatever. But I just was so baffled by the decision to write original music if it’s not going to feel original. And so then why not just give us a fucking jukebox musical with gay recent songs? Let’s have Sophie sing…

Riese: Becky’s So Hot.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Sure. Whatever. Have Fletcher songs, have Kehlani songs, have songs with people who aren’t on the show. I don’t know. So that’s my thing. We can now move forward.

Analyssa: And I want to validate that quibble and say-

Riese: Yeah, you are right.

Analyssa: You’re not wrong. And now I would like us to move forward on my feelings.

Drew: Great.

Analyssa: No, I’m just kidding. But you’re not wrong. Yeah, they’re not super original. They’re not super exciting, but I felt like even from the jump that… I wrote in my notes, Leisha Hailey especially in the other side song is so committed that I was just like, I’m in. Her facial expressions, she’s selling it so much that I was like, great. Will I remember words to these songs later? No. Will I remember Leisha getting lifted over the head of a bunch of background people spinning in a circle? I might. I do right now.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I guess I’m being very music focused and not enough dance focused and character focused.

Analyssa: Or L word focused. This is like the house music come to life, you know?

Riese: Right.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: It’s the soundtrack being danced to, which… I don’t know.

Riese: But they could have danced to, I Want To Dyke All Night, I guess.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: You’re right. You’re 100% correct. But it could have been better.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: It doesn’t even need to be Fletcher songs. I mean, that’s not Shane’s reference points. Imagine if they were doing slightly altered parodies of Indigo Girls songs.

Riese: Oh, yeah. Well, you know who writes songs… isn’t Leisha Haley?

Drew: Okay. Well, we’re going to get to that. Well, I’ll save that for later. But let’s move forward into Shane’s little sailor ditty.

Riese: Okay.

Analyssa: So yeah, Shane is dropped sort of on the town, sailors and dames kind of, Guys and Dolls ’40s musical. And Tess is a cabaret performer at Dana’s, which looks the same outside.

Riese: There’s a lot of butch sailors.

Analyssa: Yeah, there’s a lot of butch sailors ogling Tess and Shane is trying to get to Tess is the main crux of the song. And I think in this little pop of the musical scene, they pull them apart. They’re dancing together, they’re flirting with each other. It’s kind of fun. I like the style.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I didn’t love that Tess and Finley both drink in this weird fantasy world. It reminded me of Artie dancing with his legs in Glee… You know what I mean?

Drew: Wow. Yeah. Oh boy. Yes.

Riese: I mean, just why?

Analyssa: I’ve never seen one episode of the television program Glee.

Riese: Wow. I mean, if you liked this you will love Glee.

Drew: You would love Glee. I mean, I loved Glee, so I’m not insulting you. I watched all six seasons in the pandemic because of my thread that still sometimes goes viral and I’m like, oh, okay, I didn’t know things about Lea Michele when I was… Also, it was a pandemic and I was very alone and I wasn’t having sex with anyone. I don’t love that there is a bunch of thirst tweets about Lea Michele on the internet.

Analyssa: Yeah, but if you deleted them, you’d ruin the thread.

Drew: Right, exactly. So I’m keeping it, but just know that… Check the dates. Check the dates.

Analyssa: And then we cut to… Sophie’s drug trip scene is in a black and white sitcom like I Love Lucy.

Riese: Called Finley’s Home.

Analyssa: Called Finley’s Home.

Riese: So Finley’s Home is a sitcom about Finley, the man of the house who’s wearing an oversized suit and doesn’t want Sophie to talk, literally doesn’t want Sophie to talk. Finley says her boss is coming over and she’s up for a big promotion and she would like it if Sophie did not speak for the duration of the meal because then Sophie will say something stupid I guess, and the audience loves it. They love her silencing Sophie because it’s the ’50s and that’s what you did in the ’50s. You took Valium and you silenced your wives.

Drew: I did like that Micah and Maribel are the boss and boss’s wife to get them into it because I was a little bit like, are we just not going to have these characters in? So I liked the way that they thought that through. And then we get to, honestly, my favorite part of the episode, which is Dani as an old-timey TV director. Yeah, Dani has this whole Dorothy Arzner energy and I just was like…

Analyssa: She’s in a Katharine Hepburn type of oversized boxy suit kind of look. Yeah, Drew, not to step on your toes because I think this is your specific brand of horniness, but this did do a lot for me also. I was like, yeah, this is good.

Riese: Yeah, it was incredible. And I think the idea here is that Dani, they feel like it’s a metaphor. Dani’s still sort of pulling the strings in the background of Sophie’s life in some way, or it still has an impact on it. So this Finley calls cut, like has the scene cut because she thinks Sophie’s doing a bad job? There’s a really funny aside with Micah and Maribel here.

Maribel: I had lines that were stepped on?
Micah: I need more motivation to walk through the door.

Riese: It was a cute little aside.

Drew: And then this segment ends with Finley kissing Dani, which is the only time we’re probably ever going to see that.

Analyssa: Except for on the promo posters. Don’t they kiss in that?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: And Sophie is astounded by this turn of events.

Analyssa: As was I.

Riese: That Finley is sleeping with the director. Problematic, but it’s the ’50s, and this is what you did in the ’50s.

Drew: Have either of you done ayahuasca?

Analyssa: No.

Riese: No.

Drew: I haven’t either. Well, if you’ve done ayahuasca, let us know. Do you pick a genre of media and then have a fantasy in it? Just curious.

Riese: I would love it if we did.

Analyssa: I would love to be in a 2000s rom com.

Drew: Yeah, I was thinking ’90s rom com?

Analyssa: That’s just a plot of Isn’t It Romantic though, isn’t it? She bumps her head.

Drew: I guess so.

Riese: I want to be in a gritty ’90s indie about girls who are bad.

Analyssa: Oh.

Drew: You want to be in All Over Me?

Riese: That’s fine. I want to be in All Over Me, yes. Speaking of Leisha Hailey singing.

Drew: Yeah. Alice’s fantasy world is a game show called Name That Flaw, and the drag queen Eureka is the host.

Riese: This is progress, they hired a real drag queen.

Drew: Yeah, look at that.

Riese: In the original series they didn’t.

Drew: I do know this. They go through all the exes. Tom, Alice says his flaw is:

Alice: Too conventional, wanted to get married too fast.

Drew:: Taylor…

Alice: Didn’t like me enough.

Drew: Nat…

Alice: Gigi, the answer is Gigi!
Eureka: The answer is always Gigi!

Riese: What?

Drew: Which seems the opposite of a problem.

Analyssa: When they said the answer is always Gigi, I wrote in my notes, so true and I wish the show felt the same way. I think the answer to everything on this show would be Gigi.

Riese: Right. And yet, that’s also not why they broke up. But sometimes I’m like, is this just supposed to be a joke or did everyone forget?

Drew: I don’t know. Yeah, I truly don’t know. And then I don’t remember what Chris Renfro’s character’s name is.

Riese: Daddius?

Drew: No.

Riese: Teddy? Teddy.

Analyssa: Teddy.

Drew: Teddy. Yeah, Teddy, which is confirmed that their character uses they/them pronouns, which is cool. And Alice just says–

Alice: Coachella!

Drew: Which I guess is funny if you’re like-

Riese: I laughed.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: 40. Were you going to say over 40?

Drew: Yeah, I was going to say over 40.

Analyssa: That’s a grownup joke.

Riese: Yeah, I laughed. Gretchen laughed.

Drew: I love that for you both. And then it’s like, oh, it’s the last person. And I was like, oh, it’s going to be Dana. And then it wasn’t. It was Alice, but fear not because we’ll get there. And then Alice is like, oh, I have to ask the audience and someone in the audience is like, you think you’re better than everyone. And Alice is like, whoa.

Analyssa: They start yelling her flaws at her so fast. I know that she’s trapped in a dream of her brain’s own making, but I would have exited the room, like immediate. The quickness with which the first person says something, I would’ve been like, I’m out. I can’t do this.

Riese: That absolutely is what happened to me if I took this drug. I would be in a room with people shouting my flaws at me, and I’d be like, I know, I already know I have a lot of flaws.

Drew: Alice lands on you push people away and then Eureka’s like, you win. And then it’s like, you have your perfect life and you have your perfect partner and the dream partner is Dana. And it’s actually Dana.

Riese: And that’s so wonderful. Oh, she went to a bunch of bedroom sets too, which I loved the set.

Analyssa: I did really like the set. Even while they’re going through their scenes, there’s those little signs like on The Price Is Right that say vintage dresser or whatever. I loved, I thought it was so fun.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I have beef with Showtime’s website, which showed me a preview of Alice and Dana before I hit play.

Riese: Oh, the press website.

Analyssa: Yeah, the press website where you pressed play, it showed Alice and Dana, and I didn’t know that this was happening, and I was like, is that what I think it is? And then when it started, I was like, I’m going to see what I think it was.

Riese: They only released three stills from this episode on their press website, whereas normally by this time they’ve released at least 10. So I was like, Tina’s got to be in this episode.

Analyssa: Something’s afoot.

Riese: Something is off here. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Your L Word detective skills were tingling.

Riese: Yeah, exactly.

Analyssa: That show doesn’t get anything past you Riese.

Riese: I guess. Well.

Drew: I’m sure this is where we’re going to disagree most, but I just was like, I loved this as an idea. I love Dana coming back and I thought the song was so bland and I was like, I should be crying. I should be so emotional. And instead I just was like, this is awful.

Riese: Didn’t you think it was funny when she was like, “Do we have kids?” And she was like–

Dana [singing]: “No, we have cats…sitters because we just travel the world.”

Riese: Wasn’t that funny?

Drew: I guess. I just was so..

Riese: And their dances and their outfits.

Drew: Yeah. No, sure.

Analyssa: Their little booping each other around the set.

Riese: Alice’s pants.

Drew: I just think about all of the emotion that we have attached to Dana. Think about all the emotion Alice has attached to Dana. Dana’s return in song, it could be the most powerful duet I’ve ever… I wanted something more, but they kiss and it’s nice.

Analyssa: And it’s cute. Say it, Drew. They kiss and it’s cute.

Drew: It is cute.

Analyssa: It’s cute.

Riese: The aesthetics were just so delightful.

Analyssa: Yeah. I’m not going to disagree with you, and here’s how you know. I have so few notes about what they sing to each other or what they’re doing, but I was just like, okay, I’m watching my two moms dance around.

Riese: I think it’s amazing how they have to keep figuring out ways to get Dana back into this show.

Drew: Yeah. Imagine if Ilene Chaiken just hadn’t killed her.

Riese: Right. And I wish that they would think about bringing Jenny back to the show.

Drew: I know. That was something exciting. I was like, oh, well maybe this is… I mean, they’re not going to, but I was like-

Riese: No, because they don’t even mention her.

Drew: Yeah. No.

Riese: Like she doesn’t exist.

Analyssa: Yeah. Doesn’t come up.

Drew: Except that one line in episode one.

Riese: On the Pants podcast, Kate said that she thought when her and Max reunited that they would talk about Jenny, that that was the logical conversation topic, but that she couldn’t get anyone to do that, which was fascinating to me. She couldn’t get the writers to agree to that.

Analyssa: Interesting.

Drew: That makes me sad. I love old Jenny. I miss old Jenny.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. So yes, Drew, I agree. I did not get emotional in this Dana and Alice reunion. I felt like warm fuzzies, but I did get emotional later with the reunion having had happened and then there’s the scene that kind of closes it out.

Drew: Yeah. There’s two songs here that I can live with and one is that one and one is the one that’s in this next scene where we go back to Finley and Sophie World and Sophie sings a song about how finally she’s going to make things about her and not just about Finley.

Riese: There’s a rap break.

Analyssa: I have in all caps, “RAP BREAK, LET’S GO.” I think that rhyming “speak for me” and “codependency”… I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s inspired on a television musical episode. That is inspired writing.

Riese: I agree.

Analyssa: Thank you, Riese.

Drew: I wrote, “This song is also not good, but the bar is so low and Rosanny Zayas can sing so I admit, I’m enjoying this.”

Riese: When she started belting, I was like, my lord.

Analyssa: That’s a Juilliard trained voice right there, baby. That’s what that’ll get you.

Drew: She could’ve been singing literally anything and I probably would’ve enjoyed it.

Riese: Right. And I do feel like that’s probably why they made it a work retreat so that they could get Rosanny in it.

Analyssa: Yeah, definitely.

Drew: That number ends with Sophie deciding that she needs independence and leaves. And when she leaves in the fantasy, I was like, is she saying that she’s going to break up with Finley or that she just needs to set better boundaries? I was unclear because them breaking up felt so out of nowhere, but we’ll get to that. So then we go first back to Tess and Shane’s world and Tess is like, there’s one of you in every port, which I thought was funny. And also, Shane has to run away from these random girls and then-

Riese: I loved their dance. They were such good dancers though.

Drew: Yeah, that was fun. And then she’s on the roof and she’s like, Tess is in the car below. It’s like a metaphor where it’s like, oh, it’s dangerous for me to jump. What if I jump?

Analyssa: It’s scary to jump. It’s easier to be taken by these girls for one night. And all the background people are like, sex is just sex. All that matters is tonight.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It was interesting because Tess is like, “And you’ll be with me forever.” And then Shane was like, “Forever?” And I thought, oh good. Shane’s realizing that she just can’t make long-term commitments. I didn’t realize this was actually leading to her deciding that actually she can.

Analyssa: Or wants to.

Riese: Although, she used to be married. Yeah. I thought that forever moment in Shane hesitating was Shane genuinely being like, you know what? Actually, maybe this isn’t the right relationship for me to be in.

Analyssa: I had the same thought. The way that she said “forever?” was like, oh, that’s what you want from me? That’s not my thing. And yeah, you’re right. I completely… didn’t forget, but it didn’t play in when I was watching this, but she has made a forever commitment to someone before.

Riese: Yeah. So that in and of itself should not be frightening to her. But that person never wanted her to open a second bar.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Riese: But she didn’t want to actually have a baby and they broke up, so baby bar.

Drew: For babies who are babies and babies who are bars, Shane cannot handle it.

Riese: Bar babies.

Analyssa: Tag yourself. I think I’m a baby who’s a bar. Back on Alice’s game show set, Dana and Alice are talking and Dana mentions that she likes Nat and they discover that it’s because she reminds her of Dana, which I just thought was very sweet.

Riese: Yeah. So I think I teared up at three points during this scene. I remember the exact three points, but repeatedly. But they basically addressed the idea that Alice has just been looking for Dana and everybody and that she can’t really move on, which I thought was really realistic and resonated for me and that it all always comes back to Dana and that she’s never really gotten past that, which I think is an accurate portrayal of grief.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. That aspect of the episode I really liked. And this song was like… I do think Leisha really was giving it her all in a way that… And because it’s so poignant, this number worked for me.

Drew: This number worked for me.

Analyssa: Woo-hoo.

Drew: It wasn’t like I’m never going to listen to this song. I also was just curious because of Leisha Hailey’s history, why her songs were like these and not more riot grrrly. That could’ve been fun. I don’t know.

Analyssa: Especially because they’re already period-y. They’re from a different time anyway. But yeah, I agree.

Drew: I just feel like she can sing. I’ve heard her sing. I’ve listened to her. I’ve actively chosen to listen to her, so it’s like…

Riese: Uh Huh Her is my favorite band. It is one of my favorite bands. I’m not lying.

Drew: I believe you. I like them. I’ve listened to them, and so why not give something that plays to her vocal strengths instead of… I don’t think these songs necessarily show off what she can do best musically, but whatever.

Riese: Just so you guys know, Drew looks so mad.

Drew: I just was genuinely, as a musicale finale defender, I was really looking forward to this and really looking forward to having some songs to listen.

Riese: We listened to those songs for weeks afterwards.

Drew: Yeah, a couple songs in The Prom and the whole Fun Home soundtrack. What else do we have? There aren’t that many. I wrote a piece about all the lesbian movie musicals, and there aren’t that many.

Analyssa: There’s that one song, “Old Fashioned Lesbian Love Story” from Wild Party. That one gets solo played for me. I will just put that on.

Drew: Yeah, me too. One hundred percent. Same.

Riese: So at the end, basically Alice is like, “Is this the thing? You are the one.” And at this point Gretchen was like, “Oh.” Actually, before we started watching the episode and I was like, “I think Dana’s going to be in it.” I know as soon as Alice wrote, “Who’s the one” on paper, Gretchen was like, “Dana’s going to show up and Alice is going to ask her if she’s the one, and then Dana’s going to say, ‘No, I’m not the one. It’s someone else.'” And that is in fact exactly what happens in this scene.

Drew: I do wish that Dana had said there are multiple ones. That’s not really the party line of this season of Gen Q. It’s weird to me to suggest that if someone… I mean, Alice and Dana weren’t together when Dana died, but it is weird to me to suggest that someone being dead means that they weren’t your one. It feels like…

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: I don’t know. I just felt-

Analyssa: Again, it’s a very easy line tweak to be like, there are multiple ones. There can be other one… Whatever.

Riese: Or to be like, “Yes, I was the one, but I’m dead. So you’re going to have to settle for someone else.” Because that’s what grief is like too.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s time to find someone who makes you happy in other ways like that.

Drew: Yeah. I may have been the one, but there are other ones. What a nice line I just wrote.

Riese: Because I do think Dana was the one for Alice.

Drew: Yeah, I agree. You’re not going to convince me. I’m happy with the conclusion that she reaches with who this person is ultimately, but that person’s your one? No, I don’t buy that. But Alice asks if they know Dana, and Dana’s like, “In a way,” and then Alice wakes up.

Analyssa: Right. I did tear up during that conversation.

Riese: Yeah. I teared up hard during that conversation. And then…

Drew: Shane jumps off the roof.

Riese: Right. And I was like-

Drew: And also wakes up. And then we get our final song, which is a reprise of the trip song. And then-

Analyssa: Reprise is a word that I read before I ever heard it out loud, and I always read it as reprise.

Riese: I always thought it was reprise too.

Drew: I think it can be both, actually.

Riese: Okay. Great.

Analyssa: Wow. Yeah, the two genders.

Drew: Is that wrong? I don’t know. Reprise and reprise. This was very funny to me. Alice goes, “In a way, you know her,” and then looks at Shane and leans in to kiss her. And Shane leans back.

Riese: Shane leans in. Shane goes for it.

Drew: Shane really tries to play it off like, you were high. I’m not judging you. And I was like, judging her? You leaned in.

Riese: Yeah, she leaned in hard. I did think it was a little bit in a way, Dana didn’t know Shane in a way. Dana knew Shane.

Analyssa: Dana knew Shane.

Riese: Directly, but whatever. It was the door. I genuinely laughed even though I’d already seen that moment in the preview.

Analyssa: I knew that that was coming and I still was like, nobody on the pod, nobody listening to this is going to be able to see it. But I was like shaking my head so fast like no, no, like in a joyful, delighted way. And Louis was sitting next to me and was like, what is going on over there?

Riese: I wish they had fully kissed.

Analyssa: I wish they had fully kissed just for fun. Just touch lips.

Drew: Just a little touch.

Analyssa: Try it. Just do it. Dani and Finley kissed.

Drew: Just spit in her mouth. It’s not a big deal.

Riese: Right. Remember that opening in the season five episode of The L Word where they were doing Lez Girls and they were trying different pairings of potential? And so, we got to see Bette and Helena and all these other weird combos. We need that back.

Analyssa: Yeah. Try some stuff. Hey, we’re already in an episode of trying and seeing what sticks, so let’s…

Drew: I think Finley and Dani’s kiss in that fantasy could have been a lot longer. I’m just thinking.

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: I know. Was last year the COVID season or was this the COVID season?

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Riese: Good question. And Sophie being like, I have to go find Finley right now. I’m like, are you taking the bus, miss?

Drew: Yeah, like you’re on a retreat. What?

Riese: What’s your plan?

Analyssa: How much time has passed? What’s going on? Okay, fine. Sure.

Riese: You’re taking the Uber?

Drew: Who are you? Bette Porter? You can’t leave the retreat early. Come on.

Riese: I know, is she going to walk to the bus stop and scream with a bunch of strangers who are in Battlestar Galactica?

Analyssa: I did think it was really funny where Shane was like, “And I have to find Tess,” and Alice was like, “I don’t know how to get out of here,” and one of them goes, “Just up.” Like, stand. That was all fun.

Riese: Alice also tells Shane, “I saw Dana and Shane’s really happy,” and I only wish that Shane could have said in return, “And I saw Jenny.”

Drew: Yeah, that would be crazy. Can you imagine if Shane’s storyline instead of it being Tess, it was Jenny?

Riese: That’d be fascinating. That would be so interesting.

Drew: Yeah, I know. Also, we could get confirmation from Jenny. She could be like…

Analyssa: Here’s what happened.

Drew: Tina killed me.

Riese: Tina killed me. You have to help me. Tina pushed me off the balcony.

Analyssa: I actually, full send on crying from Shane’s reaction of hearing about Dana. Just the way, it actually reads, to your point earlier, felt like original L Word Shane. Like oh my God, really? All that dialogue really was like, oof. And then, that carried into the next scene, which is when Alice is going through her things.

Riese: For no reason.

Analyssa: She’s doing some post soul searching cleaning, and she finds the You Are My Sunshine flower packed away in a box, and there is this emotionally manipulative cover of You Are My Sunshine coming in. And I’m sorry, I’m simple.

Riese: I cried.

Analyssa: They want to emotionally manipulate me? They got me. They did it.

Drew: I felt like this was justified. I have a box right up in the corner of my room that has, it’s basically my sentimental box. It’s all my little sentimental things. The only thing is why is her book in there? But I was like, maybe it’s the first copy that was printed.

Riese: As everyone probably knows, because they’re probably really sad about it, I haven’t written a book just by me. There hasn’t been a book written just by me, but I’ve been in a lot of books and had copies of them sent to me. I’ve been in lots of anthologies and stuff. And I swear to God, those copies show up fucking everywhere. They’re everywhere. That was the most realistic part of this story for me, that somehow she had a random copy of her book in there.

Drew: Great. I mean, it makes sense that after that she would go through her box of sentimental things.

Riese: It makes sense that we cried.

Drew: That flower. Yeah. Wow.

Analyssa: I was full crying.

Riese: I was thinking about her in the hallway clutching the flower toy, which makes me cry every time still, even though I know it’s the most and emotionally manipulative thing this TV show has ever done to me.

Drew: So brutal. Then Alice is like, the one knows you in a way because Tom helped me write this book and it’s all about you and pushed me to write about you and be vulnerable. So then, Alice texts Tom, which I like Tom a lot. Tom has great second-

Analyssa: He’s funny.

Drew: A second one energy. I think if your soulmate died tragically young, Tom’s a great partner for life.

Analyssa: But he’s not the one.

Drew: No.

Riese: He’s just the one who was available to be in the rest of the season.

Drew: I see.

Riese: And that bothered me acutely.

Drew: He could be the one, but they never really sold us on it. The amount of time that Alice and Tom spent together, most of it was all about Alice’s having to come out as bisexual again and that whole thing. We didn’t really see them have a lot of passion. Have we talked about this earlier in this season of, it didn’t really feel like Alice’s sex scenes with Tom were hot, or were that passionate, or that she liked him that much. So, it’s a weird choice, but I’m excited that Donald Faison is going to come back.

Analyssa: But again, that is another thing that would’ve been helped by just a slightly different line earlier, which is the person you spend your life with isn’t always capital TO the one. The one can look like so many different things. Someone you’re comfortable with. There’s all these different reasons for them that they could have sold me on it in one line. I’d believe that Leisha Hailey’s like, oh yeah, him. I agree.

Drew: Also, of the people who are alive in Alice’s life, Shane is the one they can kiss. They shouldn’t kiss, but the one doesn’t have to be romantic. But this show has a very regressive, outdated, very television approach to romance, which is that there’s like you’re meant to be with your ex, your soulmates. It’s like Carrie and Big. It’s just a classic. It’s Ross and Rachel. It’s these this trope that I think is quite harmful, but we love on television, and they’re playing right into it. So it’s like, okay.

Riese: I think that the one should have been Helena.

Analyssa: Remember when we were teased a Helena return to this series?

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Yeah. They had it on IMDB that Rachel Shelley was going to be in an episode, and then scrubbed it.

Analyssa: I miss her.

Riese: Making me look like a fool.

Drew: Wow. One thing about Donald Faison, Autostraddle writer Christina Tucker and my co-host for Wait, Is This A Date? says that the Scrubs musical episode is the best musical episode in television history. I’d never seen it, and I haven’t seen the Buffy one, because I only have seen the first five seasons of Buffy, and I only saw the first two seasons of Grey’s Anatomy, so I haven’t seen that. I really am not well versed on musical episodes, but just passing that little piece of info along from Christina Tucker.

Analyssa: Earlier when we were talking about musical episodes, I was going to say, I think potentially you have to have one musical episode that you go up really hard for, and all the other ones are kind of like, yeah okay, those are musical episodes, and this is proving that, like Christina going that hard for the Scrubs one.

Riese: Honestly, I thought the Transparent one was pretty great.

Drew: I really like the Transparent one.

Riese: Didn’t we watch it on a screener and then we went and saw it at a live screening a week later?

Drew: Yeah. I was so high at that live screening at The Wing, and Joey Soloway was there, and this is before I’d met them and worked for them. They mentioned-

Riese: Your essay.

Drew: In the post-show Q&A, they mentioned my essay about Transparent, and I was so stoned and I just-

Riese: So was I. I think I just looked at you like, I was like, are we hallucinating?

Drew: And then I was like, “I need to get out of here. I can’t talk to them right now.” And then, I ran into them a bit later and have since fully worked for them on a show. But yeah, that was such a funny moment. But the word boundaries, I still in my head sing it, sing it like the show. Anytime people are talking about boundaries, using that as a buzzword or whatever, I always sing it, which I’m not going to sing on this podcast, but you should look up the boundary song from the Transparent finale.

Analyssa: Maybe you have the secret good voice.

Drew: I really don’t.

Riese: Every time I’m on Sepulveda Boulevard, I think about the song “Sepulveda Boulevard.”

Drew: There’s a Transparent musical. It’s coming to the stage. It’s coming to the Geffen this year. Next year.

Analyssa: It’s in this season. Yeah, this upcoming season. They keep emailing me about it.

Drew: And let me tell you, this L Word musical episode could not sustain a stage musical.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Again, it was clear they had pretty limited resources. They didn’t have that many numbers. It was only a few cast members. “Once More, With Feeling” every single character had, even when they couldn’t sing, they found a way to make it work.

Analyssa: And for all of the drug trip themed set design, there isn’t a lot of musical theater design. They’re not doing huge production numbers. There is production and the sets are different. They built stuff for this, but they’re not huge moving numbers. They’re basically on straight sets, people singing out, which is great, but is different resources than something like “Once More, With Feeling” or the Transparent one.

Riese: For sure.

Drew: Then we have, Sophie arrives back home, Finley got the car, is like, it’s good that I do things by myself. It’s good that we take space, has gone through her own journey of like, we need independence. Which is maybe the moment you would think that Sophie would be like, wow, we’ve both been on the same journey. And instead she’s like, nope. She’s like, I’m not my full self when I’m with you. Okay. And then Sophie’s just, I end it. End it, end it.

Riese: Finley is surprised. And honestly, so am I. I get that the relationship hasn’t gone that well this season, but it’s also, we’ve just only seen… The whole thing with Finley and Sophie was that Sophie was her full self with Finley in a way she couldn’t be with Dani. That was the whole deal.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: But I think that this whole fucking thing is predicated on this absurd idea that Finley was away for 15 months and they did not see each other or communicate regularly, but they were somehow still betrothed. When you’re in your twenties, that long, you’re a completely different person. The fact that they came back and it did not seem like Sophie had done literally anything. Finley’s sober now, and it seems like is trying to learn more mature ways of dealing with conflict and stuff like that, but isn’t always succeeding in that arena. But what if Finley had come back and Sophie had started dating someone else and had moved on, but Finley was back and then she had feelings for Finley and then they had to negotiate? What was she going to do? Was she going to cheat on someone else with Finley? What if anything, what if Finley… I don’t know. Because this feels like Finley’s first year of sobriety, but it isn’t.

Analyssa: Right. And also, I don’t actually feel like the thesis of Sophie’s voice has been pushed aside or Sophie’s needs have been ignored really bears out. It feels like the thing that they did when they talked about Finley needing to get sober where it was like, there is a version of this I buy. If you had had Sophie say, “Hey, when we’re at parties you seem to go a little bit harder than everybody else and I’m worried about you,” or, “You seem to rely on drinking when you’re in a bad mood.” Those sorts of things that we had seen. But instead it was like, you’re ruining your life and you’re like…

Analyssa: You’re ruining your life and you’re like being a new …

Riese: It’s almost like you got arrested for a DUI, and that’s the only indicator that a human being can have on whether or not someone is alcoholic.

Analyssa: Yeah. And you’re like peeing in someone’s hallway. It’s like this such extreme behavior that is behavior that exists, but is not what we had seen from Finley before. Sophie’s life has changed since Finley has come back and Sophie’s life has changed in this relationship, but I don’t feel like in as dramatic of a way that they’re trying to convince me it has.

Drew: It’s literally the most classic. It’s telling instead of showing. It’s basic, basic screenwriter shit, and it is baffling.

Analyssa: Because they could have done a thing that’s like it’s been really hard since you’ve gotten back, or I realize that I don’t feel like you’re ever going to trust me and maybe we should take some time apart to figure that out. Or being with Dre was really easy and I’m in the market right now for something that’s easy. This feels really hard. All of those, I would have been like, “Okay, still out of left field, but all right, this just felt like in a math test when you do all those steps, but you get the wrong answer or vice versa.” I was like, “What?”

Riese: Right. You need time apart. You just had 15 months apart.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t understand.

Riese: You didn’t figure out how to be a whole person in that time. Why else were you not visiting Finley or communicating with her regularly if not for both of you to spread your wings?

Analyssa: Figure it out on your own and then come back together. Yeah, exactly. They’ve made such a point of being like they haven’t talked in the last 15 months. They haven’t seen each other at all. So, what was Sophie doing in that time then?

Drew: Like one weekend with Dre.

Riese: Standing still with a vacuum cleaner in the living room. I feel like she was just standing there, like she was in a Miranda July short story, just waiting, like staring into the middle distance.

Analyssa: And I do want Sophie to have her full realized life. I’m not trying to be like …

Riese: She’s not flourishing in this relationship right now.

Analyssa: Yeah, exactly. But I don’t understand why from a writing perspective, she’s not flourishing in this relationship. By all accounts, this should just be like, “Wow, I spent 15 months figuring out what it’s like to be on my own. And now, that you’re back, we’re bumping up against each other a little bit. How do we figure that out? Or we know that’s not going to work now, so we have to break up.” That’s completely possible.

Drew: Yeah. The issue is not that Sophie’s life is being consumed with Finley. We’ve seen her at multiple events. We’ve seen her at work. I don’t get it.

Riese: If she feels like she has to tiptoe around Finley because she doesn’t want to upset her sobriety or something, then I guess say that maybe.

Analyssa: Right. Exactly.

Riese: Just say that.

Analyssa: I mean, again, we’re always sort of doing this where we’re like, “Okay, I’ve been given the theory and now I need to fit the facts to go back and fit the theory instead of taking all the facts and ending up at a point where it makes sense.”

Riese: Yeah. I was so glad that they didn’t break them up when the season started, because obviously, I go hard for this ship, but now I wish they had. I wish that they’d come back and Sophie would have been dating someone else, or Finley wasn’t … I don’t know, anything. Sophie back with Dani. I don’t know, something that would be disruptive.

Drew: They could have Dre in more of the season.

Riese: Right. There’s so many things that, I don’t know, she’s not even living in the same house anymore. I don’t know. There’s just other things that could have happened. And instead, this whole weird conflict about her sleeping with someone else where they were on a break. Honestly, it has not been satisfying in any way at all. It didn’t really make sense.

Analyssa: And didn’t even come up in the breakup.

Riese: Right. And Sophie is lying to Finley about that and now she’s saying … Her framing like that, I can’t believe they spent this whole season just having them fight about Dre, which who I love. Dre is hot, we love Dre, but …

Drew: Who’s going to have sex with Dre? Is it going to be Dani? Is it going to be Sophie? Dre is coming back, right? Dre is going to be around.

Riese: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Probably for two episodes like every other guests.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Throuple. Let’s do another throuple. Let’s see Dani, Sophie, Dre. Finley can leave, I guess, because they don’t want to do anything with her. Or it can be Shane. I don’t know. Tess and Shane. Let’s just pair them off into throuples, because the coupling isn’t working out for the show.

Anyway, speaking of Shane and Tess, then we go to Shane’s house. She’s looking for Tess. She’s like, “I’ve had this amazing Ayahuasca trip and I’ve learned so much.” And I’m like, “Shane, for the love of God, can you go to real therapy? Not Ayahuasca therapy. Real therapy.”

Riese: Tess walks out of that glass store in her gown with her eyes red like a war widow.

Analyssa: Look at her. Look at her face.

Riese: Did Shane walk into that door and not think, “Oh my God, your mom just died?”

Analyssa: My notes literally say, Shane goes home, and then the next one is, “Did her mom die?” Like immediately.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Shane is not really, she’s in her own world. I mean, she probably was like she’s crying because of the breakup. She’s crying because of me, because I’m the center of the universe. And then Tess is like, “My mom died.”

Analyssa: Yeah. Here’s the thing. When Finley was giving that little speech when Sophie came back, I was like, “This is the speech someone gives on TV right before they get broken up.” And then when Shane was giving this speech to Tess, this is the speech someone gives on TV right before they find out that their person is going to do something completely unrelated to the issues at hand. And I was right on both counts, because I’m a genius.

Drew: Yep. And that’s the episode.

Riese: I can’t believe that of all the couples to still be together at this point in the season, it’s Shane and Tess. I would have loved see Alice and Taylor. I would have loved to see, I don’t know, Dani and Gigi. Wild idea.

Drew: Why are they breaking up everyone?

Riese: You can’t break up Dani and Gigi, and Sophie and Finley, and send Bette and Tina to the hinterlands in the same season, in the same first six episodes. Who’s still together, Micah and Maribel?

Analyssa: And put me through an Alice like fun new relationship and then totally sink it one episode later.

Drew: They don’t know how to write conflict that isn’t about cheating and about breakups, and there’s so many other things that people do in life, and I just don’t understand why. Obviously, the original series had a lot of cheating and a lot of breakups, but there was more stuff going on.

I feel like work for all of these characters is an excuse to have big events that bring the characters together. There’s no work problem. I think about Jenny in the writing class. I get that not everyone wants circus sequences. I do, but they felt like real people. They had things going on in their lives. I just feel like there’s nothing. I’m sorry, but I do not count the poorly written pregnancy storyline as something going on in their lives. It really is just so … This episode …

Riese: I mean, I loved it except for the Sophie and Finley stuff. Now it’s her time, because she’d been … Because it’s part of the whole thing that I don’t really get.

Sophie hasn’t been shining, but talk about that. Also, just talk about that. Have characters have disagreements about stuff and talk about them. And they don’t have to be about jealousy or cheating. Gretchen and I find plenty of things to talk about, to fight about, and neither of us have cheated. There’s so many things.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: And you’re not breaking up as a result of those one-off fights.

Riese: And we’re not breaking up.

Analyssa: It feels so young adult like a fight means a breakup. A fight means incompatibility, means a breakup. I’ll drag just myself how I thought about relationships when I was like 20.

Drew: I mean it’s why I didn’t think Alice and Taylor were broken up because the thought of them being broken up because of that interaction and that miscommunication about whether they were exclusive yet and the speed at which they took the relationship.

Analyssa: That’s fixable.

Drew: Yeah. It’s so fixable. Or at least give a shot.

Analyssa: That’s worth another conversation.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wow. We all agreed with our point so much that we just sat in silence.

Riese: I still enjoyed the episode though.

Analyssa: I was just about to say one thing though is that they were singing and they were dancing.

Lauren Klein: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L And Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter, @tolandback, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com.
Our theme song is by the talented, Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JAXCO. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram, @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere at @Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram, @analocaa with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And, of course, the reason why we’re all here Autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this ep, let’s hear some keywords from our girlies.

Riese: One, two, three.

Drew: Wait.

Analyssa: Wait, I haven’t thought of … I haven’t thought of a single word that starts with Q

Riese: What about Quincy Jones?

Analyssa: Oh, that’s a good one. Was that yours?

Riese: No. I’m giving you … What about quincemeat?

Analyssa: The freebee is quincemeat always.

Riese: Anyone here for quincemeat?

Analyssa: Okay, I’m ready.

Riese: Go.

Drew: Three, two, one, quarterly.

Riese: What was I going to say? Oh, quit. Because that’s what everybody does to relationships in this program.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: You just quit them like in Brokeback Mountain.

Drew: Well, actually, I think in Brokeback Mountain, it’s that they can’t quit each other.

Riese: Right. And I wish that they would take that Brokeback Mountain energy to this show. Sophie would be like, “I wish I could quit you, but I can’t.”

Drew: Yeah. I said quarterly, because I listened to the entire Fun Home soundtrack and cry quarterly.

Riese: Whoa. Oh, I cried for Tess’s mom. I forgot to say that, even though I don’t care.

Analyssa: Jamie Clayton was crying on screen, so it’s like …

Riese: we cried too. Yeah.

Analyssa: I said quest, which I feel like is related to the drug trip. And also, I was really thinking of other musicals like the Camelot Musical and Lady of the Lake, and Sara Ramirez.

Riese: Oh, that’s also the name of an L Word episode.

Analyssa: Really?

Riese: Yeah. Where Jodi takes Bette to the lake house and then they throw her in the water.

Drew: Okay. That is actually one of my least favorite episodes as well, because it drives me nuts that Bette ruins the best relationship in the show’s history. That’s also one of my … It is good to remember that I had plenty of complaints about the original. Oh, Jodi. Jodi, Jodi, Jodi.

Analyssa: Not a perfect show. Just a show I love to watch.

Drew: Isn’t that the truth? I don’t know if that was true this week as far as love to watch.

Riese: I did. I loved watching it.

Analyssa: I loved watching it.

Drew: I’m so happy for you both.

Riese: Drew, looks like she’s about to pass out.

Drew: I was tired today. Maybe I’m grumpy.

Riese: You do seem a little grumpy.

Analyssa: Yeah, we’re losing you.

Drew: I mean, my birthday is in a few days. But when this episode comes out, the episode about the podcast, my birthday will be gone. And right now, my birthday hasn’t happened yet, so I should be in a good mood because it’s my birthday week.

Analyssa: It’s so true.

Drew: Feel free to wish me a happy belated birthday when you listen to this podcast. Not on my social media or anything, but just in your heart. You just think like, “Wow, it’s Drew’s birthday two days ago. Happy birthday, Drew.”

Analyssa: That’s so cute.

Drew: Thanks.

Analyssa: All right. I love that for everyone in advance of them doing it.

Riese: You’ll feel it in LA.

Analyssa: I’ll feel it.

Riese: All right.

Analyssa: Okay guys.

Drew: Okay. Bye.

Riese: Peace out, LA.

To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 305: Gay Bees and Dating Your Exes’ Exes

Well well well we are halfway through the season, and things are getting heated! Not necessarily in a sexy way, I should say, but in more of a fighting and fire alarm and first kisses kind of way. Alice and Taylor are arguing in a movie theater, Shane and Tess are arguing on a balcony, and Sophie and Finley are only not arguing because the fire department is on their way!

We’re also getting a little heated on the pod this week! Not necessarily in an angry way, but (hopefully) in more of a sharing our thoughts about writing and representation kind of way. Halfway thru the season check-in: how’s everybody feeling? Heated? Chillin’?

A black button that says listen on Apple Podcasts in purple and white lettering

A black button says Listen on Spotify in white and green text

SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s recap of Episode 305: Locked Out
+ Drew keeps using her intro for her other podcast, Wait, Is This A Date?
+ Check out the calendar month for Carmen LoBue!
+ Alice is actually reading an old Margaret Cho book, I’m The One That I Want
+ Sa’iyda’s interview with Jacqueline Toboni!
+ Drew’s new interview with Daniel Sea!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And welcome to … Nope, this—

Analyssa: Do you say, “Welcome to,” on Wait, Is This a Date?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Oh, do you want to just do, Wait, Is This a Date?

Drew: This feels fun. Should we keep this? And this is To L and Back Generation Q Edition.

Riese: Well, but we’re all supposed to say it.

Drew: Okay. And this is…

Riese: To L and Back.

Drew: To L and Back Generation Q Edition.

Riese: Generation Q Edition.

Analyssa: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: Wow. Excellent work. We are virtual for the first time this season because it’s holidays and so people are in various places, and yeah. Should we talk about The L Word program?

Analyssa: Yeah, let’s talk about The L Word TV show on this TV sets.

Drew: Great. This is episode 305, Locked Out. It’s directed by Nancy Mejia, who has been writing on the show from the beginning, and wrote on Vita and then directed an episode of Vida in season two. And now this is her first episode directing on Gen Q
And I just want to shout out Tanya Saracho, who’s the showrunner and creator of Vida, because Nancy Mejia was a first-time writer on Vida. So having your first-time writer in the second season, only the second season, directing an episode is a very cool thing to do.

And now that has allowed, three seasons in, for her to direct this episode and also direct an episode of The Chi. So I don’t know, that’s just a cool thing and I love Vida and I love Tanya Saracho.

And then it’s written by Melody Derloshon and Nina Kim. Melody Derloshon, been writing on the show the whole time. We’ve talked about her many times. And Nina Kim, this is her first episode of television, which we love.

Riese: Amazing.

Drew: Yeah. Personally, there are things in this episode that the show’s doing that annoy me, but
scene to scene, I thought this was such a well-written episode and such a well-directed episode. And I just was like, I don’t know. I feel like there were more jokes that made me laugh. There were more just like, I don’t know. I liked it. I liked it. Good work, everyone.

Riese: Great job, everybody.

Analyssa: And that’s the episode for this week.

Drew: Honestly, I’m saying this because I think even when shows are bad, celebrating the talent that makes them better is worth it. Especially when they are not as super experienced. So that’s actually my take. But okay, so let’s, let’s get into the episode. Go scene by scene maybe and sort of discuss it-

Riese: Reiterate it.

Drew: Yeah, as we go. It could be a fun thing to try out this week.

Riese: For me, what I like to do personally, is I like to watch the whole episode, take screen caps of every second, write a full recap of it with captions for every picture. I like to take at least three days to do this. And then once I’m done with that, I like to hop on the podcast and talk about it scene by scene with both of you. And then share that with the world and then listen to the podcast to give edits on it and then do that.

Drew: Wow. That’s a lot of work for one episode.

Riese: It is.

Drew: Do you think you do more work on each episode of The L Word than anyone who works on The L Word?

Riese: The only way I could find out for sure would be if they hired me to write for The L Word.

Drew: That’s a really great point.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay. So this episode begins with Alice and Shane planning on doing one of my favorite pastimes, going to a movie. And Alice asks Shane not to be late. So I bet, I think something might happen.

Riese: Someone’s going to be late. Alice’s sweater is cute.

Analyssa: Is that the big striped one?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s a good one.

Riese: I usually wear less nice clothes to the films, to the cinema though, because I don’t want to get buttered popcorn on my clothes.

Analyssa: Don’t you think that’s Alice’s least nice sweater, probably?

Riese: Probably, yeah. I mean as we’ll discuss, apparently she’s a huge star who always is impeccably everything, so, you know what I mean? And Shane is packing stuff up and you might think it’s because she’s moving out, but it’s ’cause Patty’s moving out.

Drew: Yep. And there’s a bee and Tess is freaking out about it and there’s just an incredible CGI bee. And it chases—

Riese: How do you know it wasn’t a real bee?

Drew: Do they use real bees? I would imagine not.

Riese: Well, I hope if they did, if it was a real bee that it was gay.

Drew: Yeah. It’s really important that we have gay bees.

Analyssa: They put out a casting call that was like, “Queer please.”

Riese: I hope it was a trans bee. But the character was cis, the character of the bee was cis.

Drew: I mean, that’s the next step for bee representation.

Riese: It absolutely is. Yeah. That’s forward thinking. That’s like the new queer avant garde.

Drew: I’ve been really hush about that all season, we’re circling back around on two different occasions this episode for me to free talk about this. But basically what it does is it results in Shane and Tess being locked out, the title, on the balcony. And you know what? I love this trope. Every, give me your blackouts. Give me your-

Analyssa: Stuck in an elevator.

Drew: Stuck in an elevator.

Riese: Love that. Yes.

Drew: I love it. And every time it happens in my real life, I go, “Oh, I’m in that episode of the sitcom.” And sometimes it doesn’t, nothing interesting happens, but sometimes it does. And I go, “Wow, that was a good episode of the sitcom of me.”

Riese: It happened in an episode of New Amsterdam yesterday. I watched this yesterday. They had a snowstorm, a blizzard, a blackout, and people stuck in an elevator.

Drew: Oh my God. That’s a trifecta.

Riese: Yeah. The disaster trifecta. What a treat. Yeah. So now they have to talk. ‘Cause before they weren’t talking.

Drew: Yeah. And it’s also very enjoyable to watch Shane try to get a dog to open a door. I would’ve watched an hour of Shane being like “Mac, Mac, Mac, Mac.”

Riese: I didn’t realize Patty was already gone. And it doesn’t necessarily make sense that she was, ’cause I believe we’re trying to act like this is the next day. Again, I’ll deal with the timeline at the end of the season.

Drew: Please do this on your own time, Riese.

Riese: But first, I was like, “Oh no, Patty’s stuck in there and they’re not going to be able to help her.” But then I realized that she wasn’t there.

Drew: Speaking of people who are stuck, Angie is stuck in this weird power dynamic with her professor who’s now asking her if she wants to go away with him. I do not like it.

Riese: No. I think that she should say yes and then they should go drive to a cliff and she should push him off it.

Analyssa: Oh, I don’t…

Drew: Sure. Yeah. Okay. That seems very-

Riese: Just kidding.

Drew: I’ve thought about it.

Riese: Just kidding. No, no, just kidding. I don’t think she should, I don’t think that this man should die, obviously. He’s a perfectly nice man. I just don’t think he should be dating Angie. I think he should maybe date someone in his, a different person who’s not his student.

Drew: I don’t think he should die, but I don’t think he’s necessarily a perfectly nice man. I think he thinks he’s a perfectly nice man.

Riese: Fair. Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: I think that’s a very important part of his self image.

Riese: Yeah. I feel like this is endemic of writers, male writers. They think they’re so sensitive and so in tune with the world and emotions and sadness and poetry that the rules don’t apply to them. Do you know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah. I blame decades of Woody Allen movies.

Riese: Yes, exactly. Yes. It’s the Woody Allen scenario.

Analyssa: Which is why this plotline is almost less interesting to me. It’s like this is so cliché. I’ve seen this.

Riese: Boring, yeah.

Analyssa: What’s not cliché is this storyline with the little roommate who comes in and is like, “Okay, I’ve been hooking up with this guy. Let’s not get into the details, whatever. A condom is stuck inside me.” And immediately I was like, “Angie’s going to have to get this out. There’s no other end to the story.” I also lived in a sorority house in college, whatever, we don’t need to talk about that. But there are many stories of this kind of thing where people would come home and be like, “I’ve got something going on and I need somebody else to handle it for me. I can’t see what’s happening.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Finley and Sophie are doing their, “Well, we want to talk about Dre, so we’re going to talk about Dre details.” Finley says that Dre’s a hot person’s name and Sophie says that they’re not hot, which is—

Riese: Which we all know is a lie.

Analyssa: I don’t believe that for a second.

Drew: Why would you say… Also, I don’t understand why Finley says that it makes, why would it make you feel better to know that you’re…

Analyssa: Oh, you have a weird thing about this though, don’t you?

Riese: Yeah, I was about to say, I have a feeling like I’m going to disagree.

Analyssa: Drew has a thing about this, I feel like. About when you want your exes to have dated only other hot people because otherwise it… Haven’t you talked about this before?

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I want to be in the group of people that you’re hooking up with and we’re all hot people. If you’re hooking up with someone ugly… What I would love in this scenario, I mean, I might just trust that Sophie loves me and it doesn’t matter and whatever. Maybe I have a different relationship to non monogamy and other things. Anyways. But if I’m trying to be in Finley’s experience, if Sophie was like, “Dre was super hot, but very boring and whatever.” I’d be like, “Cool. That checks out. You hooked up with someone who…” Anyways, what’s more suspicious to me is Sophie saying that they only slept together once. And it was like-

Riese: Right, because Mari referred to them as this person you were sleeping with.

Analyssa: Yeah. Also, just the whole having to go question by question thing. I was already just kind of on edge about, it just feels like things are getting sort of obscured for the sake of not hurting Finley’s feelings anymore.

Drew: Yeah. Just start from the beginning. Be like, we met—

Analyssa: Just tell me what happened.

Riese: Also how hard would it be for Finley to find Dre out in the world? As we learn, not that hard. But also on social? We’re already suspending our disbelief that Finley hasn’t already looked this person up on social media because social media doesn’t really exist on The L Word. But there’s no way that Sophie’s going to hide Dre from Finley indefinitely.

And also pretty much everyone is hot. So the chances that Dre is hot are pretty high just statistically speaking when you look at the world of the not cis men dating pool. Because cis men are not always hot, but most other people are.

Analyssa: Also this is sort of edging in on Drew’s point, but you wouldn’t hook up with someone who you’re like, this person is not hot to me. So what does it matter? I get that Finley is hurting, but even the question of “Were they more charming than me?” Let’s not get into that. Do you want to know the details or is it a competition?

Riese: That is what people ask though.

Analyssa: Oh, definitely.

Drew: Also I’m sorry but we meet Dre and Dre isn’t like, “Oh, Dre’s hot.” Dre’s hot. It’s not like, oh different tastes, different whatever. There are people where for sure, like if you’re a listener and you do not find Dre hot write in because I’m fascinated by you. But this whole talk doesn’t feel like it’s being done well.

Riese: Right. I’m not sure, we obviously know Sophie’s lying about Dre being hot. But are we supposed to think that Sophie’s telling the truth about their time together? Because I got the feeling that we were.

Analyssa: Yeah, I don’t know what we were supposed to think, but I didn’t feel like I was hearing the whole truth.

Riese: Right, and why? Just tell the whole truth. You were allowed, you were on a break.

Drew: You were on a break.

Riese: Tell the whole truth.

Drew: Yeah. I also am not sure. It definitely felt like, I don’t know if it said Sophie’s so used to not telling the truth that she’s having a hard time telling the truth, but that doesn’t even… I mean, I know that’s what they want me to think, but I’m not buying it.

Analyssa: Well, but Sophie says that she has kept all this from Finley anyway because Finley’s been doing so well and Sophie doesn’t want to mess that up. So I wonder if that’s part of it too.

Riese: Like protecting, not wanting to upset the delicate balance of Finley’s sobriety.

Drew: By the time Finley’s being like, “I want to hear everything,” it’s like, respect Finley enough to trust her and to know that if you’re not honest, it’s going to screw you over when Dre happens to be at Dana’s later. Just saying.

Analyssa: Just in case you happen to see… Every time I go to a queer bar, I assume I’m going to see an ex or an ex-hookup. So they should just be planning for that eventuality anyway. I don’t know.

Drew: Absolutely.

Riese: I went to Dana’s once and saw an ex, so.

Drew: Oh God. I remember that.

Analyssa: I went to Ginger’s in Brooklyn the last time I was in New York by myself for a random night and ran into, not an ex, but someone who mistook me for my ex. And I was like, “Cool.”

Drew: Wow. I love Ginger’s.

Analyssa: I know, me too. I love it there.

Speaking of revealing truths, Micah has told his mom about his relationship with Maribel. They decide that they’re going to celebrate by either, by doing one of two activities that sound both really not celebratory to me, but okay. I’m happy for them.

Riese: Oh, they sound fantastic to me.

Analyssa: Oh man.

Riese: Organizing the Tupperware drawer or picking a sperm donor. But I thought this was a really cute scene with them when they were like, “Can we be in bed by eight?” That was adorable.

Analyssa: It was really sweet.

Drew: Yeah. Boring people deserve to be on TV also, even if I don’t relate.

Riese: I really did. I love the idea of being in bed by nine, if only I didn’t have insomnia.

Drew: A couple that is not doing as well as Micah and Maribel is Tess and Shane who are now talking about it. The first thing I wrote obviously, and I’m so glad we find out the answer to this is, wait, is Alice going to be alone at the movie? Which we’ll get back to that. But Tess is like, “I knew about your reputation. Everyone in this town except Finley knows about your reputation. Why did I think you were going to be different?”

Yeah, I don’t know. It’s fine. It’s a fine scene. I don’t necessarily think that that much interest… I mean it is the first part of a longer conversation and throughout this whole thing I was just feeling like, “Oh, you know what would be so interesting is if Tess was trans and she had feelings about Shane cheating on her with a cis woman.” Like Kehlani doesn’t identify it that way. But I think Ivy’s supposed to be a cis woman and either way. So there’s a lot of feelings that could come up. What an interesting thing that could be? And as is, I’m just sort of like, “I’ve seen this before.”

Riese: It was funnier before, because Carmen had a fire extinguisher and was screaming about birds. That was far more entertaining.

Drew: Right. There are moments and we’ll keep returning to this where I’m like, “Oh, is it going to go somewhere new, somewhere interesting?” And it never really does.

Riese: It really doesn’t. Yeah, I know it’s hard to talk about because also I don’t remember specifically what they talked about in each scene. But that kind of speaks to the nature of the conversation in that we didn’t really get a lot of new information. Like you were saying that if Tess was trans, that would’ve deepened the conflict or just given them more to work with.

And I felt like there was a lot of generalities and big, broad statements. If I was editing this short story, I’d be like, “Give us a detail, give us a specific detail. Tell us exactly what you envisioned for your future together. Tell us about a time when you thought things would be different. Tell us about anything you’ve done together over the past year? Or when did you stop being happy? Tell us a story. Give us a full story.”

The original series did this too. Just skating on the surface of things instead of digging into the details of it. And I don’t know why it’s always like this, but I just wish they got a little bit more real. Thank you for listening.

Analyssa: I loved it.

Well, speaking of getting real. As suspected, we’re back at college and the roommate, what is her name? Bella?

Riese: Bella.

Analyssa: Bella, but not from Twilight. That’s what you said last week, right?

Riese: Oh wait, no, I said it was Bella. It was Bella from Twilight.

Analyssa: Oh, you said it was Bella from Twilight.

Riese: Yeah, so it is Bella Swan, but she’s different. She looks different now and she’s in
college and she’s obviously not dating the vampire because he would’ve freaked out if she’d hooked up with the baseball player.

Analyssa: Unless it’s him when they play baseball in that scene, his family.

Riese: Oh yeah, that would’ve been fun.

Drew: And vampire condoms are bigger and that’s why they get stuck.

Riese: Yes, exactly.

Analyssa: The one funny thing from this scene is her saying, “I can’t tell what’s a condom and what’s me.” What an insane series of words together. It’s just very funny. But again, these are little pops of the scene with them kind of. The whole time. They’re just trying to get this out of her.

Riese: Honestly, I was bummed because it does seem like from this that Bella is straight. If she’s queer it’s definitely not, it seems like she’s straighter, at least at this point. Don’t you think?

Drew: No.

Riese: You think Bella’s queer?

Analyssa: Like a flirty thing between the two of them, Drew?

Drew: Yeah, I… No?

Analyssa: No, I don’t think that’s going on. I know what you’re pointing out, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on.

Riese: Right, there was a moment when I thought maybe, but I thought, no. Not because it couldn’t be there because also I think that Jordan is just good at having chemistry with other actors. But because it just felt like this is not where they’re going to go with this character.

Drew: That’s what I thought initially. There’s a moment later on that we’ll get to where I was like… I mean, look, straight girls flirting with a queer girl, that’s not unheard of. So the moment later where I’m like, “That feels a little flirty.” Also, I think maybe just girls talk to each other that way. I’ve never been a straight girl.

Riese: Yeah, I think it felt to me like a straight girl and her friend in college and I just would love Angie to talk to even just one gay person in college and I was hoping it would be her roommate.

Analyssa: You can find a lot of them at college, sometimes a lot more than you were used to.

Riese: Yeah, especially at California University with their legacy of Jodi Lerner, Bette Porter, Phyllis Kroll. A long legacy of big queer minds at that institution.

Drew: Speaking of big queer minds, Dani is listening to a voicemail from Roxy about, so Roxy’s gone and then all of a sudden I immediately, I think because images were released earlier, I knew it was Dre. Dre saves Dani from a scooter. Those scooters.

Riese: Those scooters.

Drew: They can be dangerous.

Analyssa: I hate those fucking things. I hate them.

Riese: But they’re so good for transportation for people.

Analyssa: Yes, I am certain that they are useful, especially in a city like Los Angeles that does not have good public transportation. On a personal level, I hate them.

Drew: Dre says, “I feel like I should kiss you, but we’re not in a romcom.” And Dani then kisses her.

Riese: I loved that.

Drew: I loved it. I was a fan.

Riese: I was like, “Let the romcom begin.”

Analyssa: Yeah, who says we can’t be in a romcom? Also, Dani is coming off a breakup and coming off having hung out with her friend who it seems like have always had some weird sexual energy maybe and nothing happened. I don’t know. Get wild girl, go after it.

Riese: This is when I can say that the actor who is playing Dre, Autostraddle used to do a calendar every year. We would do a calendar every year and we would have a different model every month.

Analyssa: That’s how I found Autostraddle the first time.

Riese: Oh really? Through the calendar?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Oh, right. Because your friend was in the calendar.

Analyssa: I knew someone at my college who was in one of the calendars, and it was the first time I’d ever heard of Autostraddle. And then I started reading your Faking It recaps, which is how I eventually became sucked in.

Riese: Those are really good. If I could just celebrate myself for a minute.

Analyssa: I don’t miss watching the <emFaking It show, but I miss reading the Faking It recaps the day after.

Riese: Thank you so much. That means so much to me. But Carmen, this actor, was the March calendar model of our very first year. So I was like, “Oh my God, they’re all grown up.” And I was just like, “Wow.” It was just really weird to see. And because they were friends with our friend Julia, who was the February model, and Julia had been like, “Oh, I have this other friend,” and we’d gotten them in. So anyway, that was kind of exciting.

Analyssa: That is exciting.

Riese: So just so you know, if you want to be an Autostraddle calendar model in the early 2010s, you could one day end up on The L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: I mean that’s a good endorsement.

Analyssa: The chart, but for professional connections to Autostraddle.

Riese: Yeah, I mean, calendar models have gone on to do great things in their communities. They really have. So just a moment for the calendar. Okay.

Drew: I did think it was quite bold of Dre. It was quite bold.

Riese: It made me love them immediately.

Drew: Speaking of flirting, Sophie and Finley are flirting at the bar and Finley asks Sophie to go to meet me in the back. And we’re going to…

Analyssa: Again, who works at this bar? If Finley goes into the back room to have sex with Sophie, who is taking drink orders? I’ve seen none other people.

Riese: There was one, I saw another bartender this episode.

Analyssa: The good news for Finley in this situation, re: the rules is she’s the boss. She has no checks on her behavior.

Riese: But I like her outfit. She looks hot.

Drew: Everyone looks very hot this episode.

Analyssa: Oh yeah, this little white sweater.

Drew: And then Dani arrives and asks Finley for tequila on the rocks, nothing cheap. Which I loved this whole thing. Dani this episode was so fun. I loved it. Dani’s like, “I want to have a hot girl autumn.” I don’t know, the whole energy was so fun. I love that they’re all friends again.

Riese: Her energy was radiant. Is this when she tells Sophie?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yes. And they talk about The Wedding Planner.

Analyssa: And they do a really extended Wedding Planner bit, which I personally also loved.

Riese: And she tells Sophie that she hooked up with this really hot person.

Drew: Yeah, I really enjoyed that bit. Dani has on and off been one of my favorite characters of the new show and sometimes the storylines they give her all, like the Sackler stuff, no thank you. But when they’ve moved beyond that, she’s so fun in this episode, I felt like they really let that character, I don’t know, it was really, five stars for this part of the episode.

Riese: Never mention her father again. I don’t need to know that she even has a father. Let’s just ride this out. I’m loving this.

Drew: Maribel and Micah are picking their sperm donor and Maribel says she wants a guy over six feet, which Micah will eventually be like, “This is eugenics.” And they have some funny banter. Honestly, pretty impressive to have funny banter about eugenics. But I also am like, “You can’t be partnered with a trans guy and be like, ‘I want a guy who’s over six feet.'”

I know it’s been coming from a place where she’s like, “My family’s all short,” and okay, whatever. But I didn’t love that.

Riese: I don’t understand what they’re doing here.

Drew: I mean, I was confused why they didn’t just do it the old fashioned way and find a famous artist and use that sperm.

Analyssa: Right. Right.

Riese: I guess I’m curious how they’ve decided to get pregnant to begin with. If they are going to be doing it with an at-home insemination. If they’re going to be doing it in a doctor’s office like an IUI if they want to do IVF.

Drew: I mean, I think it’s fair for us to say that it’s kind of weird to have the character who’s supporting quote, unquote “eugenics” is the disabled character. And obviously it is turned into a joke and they sort of move past it or whatever. But it is weird. I know that eventually it’s leading towards them being like, “We wish we could just combine our genetics.” And it’s like, okay, but then why are we-

Riese: I don’t understand why they don’t start there. That’s where couples start. They start with, “Well let’s find a donor who looks like you or who has some traits.” I was really confused at first. I was like, “You’re just choosing traits randomly? Why wouldn’t you want to choose traits that look like Micah? That’s what most queer couples or couples where no one’s producing sperm that can be used to get anyone pregnant do, is they pick someone who looks, somehow has something in common with or resembles the other. Also, if they want donors who are only over six feet, I don’t think she was going to find a lot of options there.

Drew: Why, because it’s mostly struggling actors?

Riese: I mean just making it 5’10” and above, you’re really decreasing your options. So I think when this story first started, I assume they weren’t talking about Mari’s disability at all in relationship to it cause it didn’t matter. Like it really didn’t have any impact on her pregnancy or conception or anything like that. And then someone had asked me about it, so I like did a little research and first of all, I’m not a doctor, but, there does seem to be like, there are certain things that you would have to consider differently when you’re thinking about your pregnancy and how it might impact your body if you do have muscular dystrophy. Like I’m over 40, right? So for me, there’s certain things I have to consider differently. So like my journey started at a doctor’s office because there is an increased risk of miscarriage. You know, there’s things I might wanna consider when deciding how I wanna conceive and what I’m looking for in a donor and all of that stuff, you know? And I think like showing the way that different bodies might be approaching this differently is like, I don’t think that that has to feel like we’re making this story just about their disability. It’s just like, this is just a part of someone’s identity, someone’s experience in the world. It makes for like richer storytelling and like more interesting character work when we address those things that are pretending like those things don’t exist. But again like, I don’t know, I feel like I don’t wanna mess up talking about it, you know what I mean?

Drew: Again, it’s just a lack of specificity. Same thing with the breakup between Shane and Tess. It’s just a lack of specificity that results in scenes that, taken at face value, it’s fine, but it is just like, “Why do you not want this show to be more interesting? And why are you picking this storyline if you’re not going to get into any of the specificities of these two individuals?”

Analyssa: I wonder if it’s a thing of what Max was saying of, “I want to show you how great it can be.” And the show is picking very interesting topics to be like, “We’re actually just going to show you how possible it is and great it is,” without getting into the specificity of stuff. And then there’s other things where I’m like, “Why are you making that so hard for the characters?”

So Tess’s mom’s storyline. I’m like, “Why is this so difficult and sucking so much of her life when there are ways to make that easier on her.” But then in this Maribel and Micah getting pregnant, which seems really complicated and really overwhelming as a process, they’re kind of like, “Yeah, isn’t it so fun?” It’s just an interesting, I don’t know they’re choosing-

Riese: Right, they’re just-

Analyssa: Weird…

Riese: Yeah, they’re just, we’re just going to look online and find… It’s not that’s not that casual. It’s not that simple. It’s not that easy. And one thing that I think is good that they’re doing is that I do think that they’re coming from a very disability positive perspective. Where I feel like other shows that address disability and pregnancy, they’re very much like, “We would never want to have a kid who has this disability.” And they’re not doing that.

If they were doing that, then they would be doing IVF and using a donor egg so that they would for sure not pass it on. And if they’re not doing that, then that’s great and that’s all the more reason why I wish they would engage with the things that are still relevant to this process for them.

Analyssa: And even that would be interesting. The two of them being like, “Whoa, this is something, we don’t really have a framework for this. This is really hard to find people who have gone through this or this is really… ” Even just lines like that. Like, “I wish that the baby could be part of both of us.” “I wish we had people like us who we could turn to.” We had that a little bit in the last episode, but it seems like it’s just tough because it seems that it’s in an attempt to be very positive about this experience or also showing people that it is possible, what that route looks like.

It seems like it’s in an attempt to do that, but it elides any interesting specificity or discussion, any deeper representation than just these two people get to click around the sperm donor website, which doesn’t really feel super realistic.

Riese: It feels very similar to how they deal with trans characters.

Analyssa: And honestly, sometimes sobriety. It’s just, not that is a identity on the same level, but just this thing where it’s like, “Yeah, Finley’s now sober. Isn’t that amazing?” And it’s like, there’s not a whole-

Riese: Do her and Sophie have to talk about how that’s going to work for them?

Analyssa: Does she have a sponsor? All these details that could really add some real heft to a story and make them more meaningful, instead of the thing we’re kind of bumping up against this episode is the broad strokes of stories.

Drew: If you don’t have the ability to really get into these things, and if you’re not interested in getting into these things, I mean, I guess this is what happens when you make your trans character and your disabled character the respectable, boring ones where you run out of storylines. And so when the goal is like, “Oh, we’re going to do something so radical by having these characters want to be asleep by 8:30,” which is great. I support anyone doing that. But when you’re making a show that is, as I referred to it last week, a gay hookup show, and then you want to have these underrepresented identities there, but not actually do much with them, you’re just running out of storylines. And so then it’s like, “Well, they’ll have a baby.” And it’s like, “Okay, but that’s also complicated for these specific individuals.” I don’t know.

I mean, look, part of the reason why I think I was able to just turn my brain off and just watch them banter and watch the actors I like do their little thing is because I’ve, seasons ago, checked out so much as far as how the show treats Micah and Maribel.

They’re not even in every episode and not in a Bette Porter choice way, but in a, “Oh, we don’t have anything to do with them this week” way. And I don’t know, just my expectation for these two characters is so low that when they just get some scenes to have fun with, I’m like, “Okay.” But it sucks because having this conversation is making me be like, “Oh, right. There’s so much that could be done and isn’t being done.”

Riese: And obviously I probably last year would’ve been like, “Okay, whatever, this is fine.” But now that I’ve been through this process of looking for donor sperm, I’m obviously… And not just that, but also looking back and being, there are all these things about how Bette and Tina did it, where I don’t feel like there’s a lot of really good representation of what it really is like and what it really costs to get pregnant as a queer person. And I wish that they would engage more fully with it.

And it feels very weird that they’re just like, “Now we’re looking for sperm donors on the internet.” That would not be their next step. Their next step would be going to the doctor and talking about the best way to proceed with this pregnancy. And that would be informative. And if Mari and Micah were fuller characters it still wouldn’t feel like that their whole story was about disability because this doctor’s appointment was about disability.

Analyssa: And even if we didn’t see that, but they said it. It’s the thing you were saying last week, Riese, you have lines that can mean something. We could be doing more with each line to say “There aren’t a lot of options because of remember the thing we talked about with the doctor, but let’s look at what we can,” or whatever. It’s possible. So it’s just kind of frustrating.

Drew: Yeah. I really take issue with this idea and I’ve talked about this in reference to Tess not being trans. I really take issue with this idea that if you have any sort of marginalized identity, that the choices have to be either never talking about it or having nothing about yourself that is connected to it. I talk about being gay all the time. I talk about being trans all the time. I’m also Drew, I have a lot of personal, specific things. And the way I talk about being gay, the way I talk about being trans, those are specific to me and those are specific to my character.

And it’s just so dehumanizing to feel like those are the options. And I experience it in general, in this industry of people wanting, basically it’s like, “Oh, is this a trans story where we’re dealing with the trauma? Or is this a trans story where transphobia doesn’t exist?”

And I’m like, “There’s such a vast world in between those two things where it doesn’t have to be crying in the mirror, mascara going down my face, and I’m not a character with any sort of qualities or I’m out in the world and everyone’s just correctly gendering me and gender is dead and tra la la, la.” There’s so much else to explore. And it just takes away from our actual experiences to act like those are the options.

Analyssa: Anyway.

Drew: Anyway, from a storyline that I don’t enjoy to a storyline that I do enjoy, Alice is at the movies alone. I have never related more to The L Word than Alice sitting there waiting for her friend. I also love that she texts and says, “Previews are starting,” to Shane when previews are not starting. Oh, we want to talk about representation. That’s representation. That is my trans experience. Also, Taylor’s there with someone, so whoops.

Riese: Yeah. Taylor’s there with someone.

Analyssa: I personally love insane Alice. This is something I love from the original run too. Anytime Alice gets unhinged. Like cardboard cutout Dana, Alice I know, is very polarizing, but Leisha Hailey does such a fun thing when she commits to these things that I just was really on board as soon as she saw that. I love when she goes just a little bit off the rails.

Drew: Very entertaining.

Analyssa: Yes, exactly. I don’t have a good transition, but back on the balcony from hell, Shane and Tess are talking more about their relationship and Tess asks if Shane is wanting to do ENM, which made me laugh, just because if you’ve been on Tinder in Los Angeles in the last, I don’t know, five, 10 years, it’s full of people with ENM in their little bios.

Riese: Shane should be like, no, I want to do unethical non monogamy.

Drew: She literally does. She’s like—

Analyssa: Shane prefers unethical non monogamy, actually.

Drew: She literally said, I mean, the way that that line is delivered made me laugh so much because Tess is like, “It’s ethical non monogamy, beautiful partners. Dating, dating other people. And Shane goes, “Oh no, no, no, no, no.” And I’m like, what do you mean? No, no, no, no, no, no. That’s your whole life. You just want,” and yeah.

The way that they brush past this so quickly was another one of my real sticking points for the episode. I just was like, we’re just going to move straight to, is Shane a sex addict? Okay, maybe. But also it’s Kehlani. I’m sorry, but that is not a good portrait of… I’m sorry if this is offensive to sex addicts, but I just feel like that’s not a good portrayal of… Kehlani cannot be Shane’s rock bottom. That is not, I just feel like that is, like, yeah, she cheated and that sucks. But she’s fighting with her. It just feels like the most basic of Shane’s cheating. She’s fighting with her partner. They’ve been together for a year and a half or whatever it is. And then she meets Kehlani. I’m sorry, do you remember when she drank her drink? Do you remember that?

Analyssa: I even put in my notes when, earlier in the scene when Tess is like, or Shane is like, “It’s just an old pattern.” I wrote down, “Weird way to say Kehlani’s really hot.”

Riese: What’s more ethical than hooking up with Kehlani? Name one thing more ethical than that.

Analyssa: It’s your moral right. If you and Kehlani want to hook up with each other that’s the right thing to do.

Riese: But then it made me realize, was she not not monogamous with Kiara? Did we make that up in our heads?

Analyssa: I really was like, why aren’t we talking about the possibility of open relationships?

Riese: Obviously that’s what Shane needs, is a poly relationship.

Analyssa: It’s also what the dialogue is. Shane is saying, sex really doesn’t mean anything to me when it’s just sex. This, as a person who is sober, Tess, being like, “Are you a sex addict?” feels so intense. Instead of just being like, it sounds like you really rely on a lot of validation outside. There’s such a vast ocean of attention makes me feel good between never hooking up with anyone and I’m a sex addict that it just really drove me nuts. And then they don’t really talk about that either. Shane’s like, “Well, maybe,” and then it moves on. So it’s like, “Why put that in there?”

Riese: I felt like it was trying to say that that was a paradigm that Tess felt like she could work with because she knew addiction and she understands addiction. And if Shane could just say, “I’m a sex addict,” she’d be like, “Okay, this is what we do next about that.”

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: But then it seemed like Shane was like, “I don’t know, maybe.” But I don’t, I mean Shane’s not a sex addict.

Drew: I don’t know enough about sex addiction to weigh in on that, but it doesn’t seem like the show thinks she is. So why put that, like why engage with that? I did enjoy that when Tess was like, “Yeah, I’ve been feeling disconnected too. And I wrote in my journal.” I did enjoy that line.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was good. That was good.

Drew: Again, it’s so interesting because there’s like, I’d say half the storylines in the episode actively make me want to slam my head in a window. But the way that they’re, all of them had a few lines and performances that I enjoyed. And so it was a very weird experience. That’s what I, but yeah.

Analyssa: I thought the line when Tess, it’s in the same thing, but when she’s like, “And I didn’t go out and fuck the first person to show me attention or something,” I was like, “Okay, yes, great line.”

Riese: Although I’m sure Kehlani was not the first person to show her attention.

Drew: No, of course not. I literally just, I know I’m making a joke out of this, but it is partially because I just don’t really feel like they’re talking about, everyone has different relationships to sex and to monogamy and I just don’t really feel like they’re talking about what their specific relationships to those things are. And it’s driving me nuts.

Analyssa: Also, Tess is talking really strongly and sort of punitively about their relationship and has not yet, which this comes up later, but even in this part of their conversation I was feeling uncomfy with, she has no idea if Shane wants to be in this relationship anymore. And she’s like, “You must change.” And I was like, whoa. I don’t know. It felt like a really intense place to be bargaining from, to me.

Riese: That felt honest to me at least.

Analyssa: I agree. It was more like me having… It’s not a script note. It’s more me having secondhand embarrassment, watching two people have a fight and being like, “If I had just been cheated on, I would not be starting from this tone.” Me personally. God bless all of the work that Tess has done on her self worth. ‘Cause I would’ve been like, “Do you still love me?

Drew: But also Shane said goodbye to Kehlani. So if she did that, if she doesn’t want to be with Tess…

Riese: Yeah. Can we get Ivy back on the show or what?

Drew: That’s what I said.

Analyssa: We might not get Ivy back on the show, but as we know Fletcher is going to guest star. And that’s in part because Dani is throwing Fletcher’s album release party, which is very funny to me.

Drew: I mean it’s the classic daughter of the Sacklers to party planner pipeline. Everyone knows about that. It’s like…

Riese: Yeah, everyone knows about that.

Drew: Then Dre gets on stage to sing because it’s karaoke. And so they have a little banter back and forth about like, that’s them. And they’re like, “Oh, that’s them.” And then they, you know. So Dani’s like, God damn it.

Riese: But she’s still enchanted. Enchanting singer on the mic. I loved watching Dani watch Dre.

Analyssa: Me too.

Riese: Me too. And then Sophie goes to, Sophie’s like “I have to go find Finley to warn her that Dre is here because we’ve just been talking about them.” And Dre is singing a song with lyrics that could be about being sad about Sophie while Sophie and Finley hook up in the back room, which I was just very stressed about.

Drew: It’s “Dancing With a Stranger” by Normani and Sam Smith. And yeah, it definitely was a moment of where I was like, “Wow, imagine fucking your girlfriend while the person who you fucked while you were on break is singing, serenading you.” I was like, this was the kind of shit though that I was like, “It’s so absurd.” But I had such a grand time with all of this. I was like, “This is what I’m here for. This is why I’m watching this show.” I was delighted. It made no sense a lot of it, but it didn’t make sense in a way that didn’t make me want to slam my head in a window, made me want to stick my head out a window cheerfully and shout, “Look at these crazy queers”

Riese: They start hooking up and we see Sophie flashing back to the sex scene with Dre in her mind, which is a lot, but I also felt like it was honest. It’s like hard. Obviously all these things are running through her mind, but it seems like it’s not working.

Analyssa: And Dre is literally singing, basically in her ear while she’s hooking up with Finley. You would be thinking about that.

Riese: And then Dani’s coming in her pants at the bar and it’s incredible. Everybody is aroused. Everyone is aroused except Sophie.

Drew: People in The L Word and in fiction in general are not good at being like, “No, we’re not going to hook up for five seconds, five minutes, whatever.” I’m going to actually say the thing I need to say. Because personally, I mean this is just me. I’m a little bit kooky. If, when Finley’s trying to hook up with me, I’d be like, “Whoa, something happened. We need to talk. We’re no longer having sex in the back room.” I would just be like, “Okay, if you insist on kissing me.” And also if I was Finley and Sophie was like, “I need to talk to you,” I would be like, “That can wait babe.” I’d be like, “Oh yeah, what’s up?” Sure.

Riese: Well I thought Finley maybe thought that was a front because they were joking because they’d already planned to meet in the back for sex. But then Sophie’s obviously, “I can’t,” and Finley’s like, “Of course, we don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do.” And then Sophie tells them that Dre’s here and then they go out.

And this honestly really hit home for me because I was dating someone once and it was not monogamous, but that was their choice and not something that I really wanted. And we went to a dance party and we were at this party and then she was actually, the other person that she was dating was the DJ, up on the DJ stage DJing. And I was like, “I can’t dance.” I mean I normally am a really bad dancer, but I can’t, there’s no part of me that can dance with you to this person DJing this party. And again, it wasn’t like it wasn’t allowed, but it was still something that I had a lot of feelings about and didn’t really enjoy the scenario.

Drew: Did your partner at the time tell you that the DJ wasn’t hot?

Riese: No, she had not. She had not. But it was the first time I had seen this person’s face so it was a lot. So I was in the moment with Finley feeling all of the blood drop out of my body, knowing this is not, I can’t be mad at her, but I’m still having a reaction to this. So as absurd as it seemed that she switched the fire drill, to me it did not feel that absurd.

Drew: I loved it. I thought it was so, it was chaos. And this was all good here.

Riese: So everyone evacuates?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So yeah, then everyone is leaving. Well and later there’s more of a scene of them later.

Drew: We’ll get to that. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: But first we go back to the balcony where Tess asks Shane if she’s ever been to therapy.

Analyssa: That really made me laugh.

Riese: How has she still not been to therapy? She’s like, what, 42?

Drew: And also they’ve been together for a year and a half and Tess has never asked Shane if she’s been to therapy? What kind of queers are these people? And then Tessa’s like, “We’ve all been through a lot.” And I’m like, yeah, Tess transitioned at a young age and has kept it quiet, hasn’t told a soul about it. And that’s got to be hard to live a stealth life like that.

Riese: When she said that for one moment I thought, what if? What if they’re going to do it? And then I was like, “No, they’re not going to do it.”

Drew: No. Shane’s just being a sad puppy.

Riese: And Shane’s been through a lot, but what does that have to do with this? I don’t know.

Drew: And there’s a whole conversation about responsibility. I don’t know. Again, it’s just vague. We don’t need to go over this again unless either of you have something to add. But it’s just, all feels very vague and lots of conversations about responsibility, and I’m just like, okay, I’m not learning anything about these characters.

Riese: I did think the one thing that she said where, because Shane was like, “I am taking responsibility for it.” And Tess was kind of being like, saying you’re sorry after the fact is not the same thing as taking responsibility for this behavior in your everyday life’s. Which is something that Shane could’ve learned in therapy. Which we now know, surprise to everybody, she’s never been in.

Drew: That’s crazy.

Riese: Dan Foxworthy would’ve dined out on her.

Drew: If I had Shane’s money, I would be in therapy all the time.

Riese: I’d be in massage therapy all the time.

Drew: So then we go back to the bar and yeah, Finley’s sent, is continuing to send everybody home and is just freaking out. I did write in my notes, am I better than everyone? And it let me explain that. And I just think that I have the ability, and I’m sure this is a bad thing in some ways. All of our, we all have our own struggles. But I can get through anything. I need to shut down and just not be emotional and just do my job and get through the rest of my bartending night while the hottest person ever who’s fucked my partner is singing. Great. I need to even chat with that person? Great. I could do it. I really have an ability to not make my problems anyone else’s problems. It’s not always a good thing. But I do sometimes watch television and go, “Can you just take a breath?” But, no.

Riese: Yeah, that’s what I felt watching Bros. I thought, suck it up. Stop sharing your personality with this man’s family and just play a role.

Analyssa: That one scene, I was like, “Just pretend for one day. We all have to pretend around people’s families about all kinds of stuff.” What do you mean?

Riese: Yeah, just suck it up, weirdo.

Drew: Yeah, there’s got to be an in between there. But yeah, I’m not judging Finley. I think it fits with Finley and I think is funny. And then Dre, they’re outside and Dre asks Dani to leave with them and we also learned that Dre’s actually a singer or trying to be a musician of some sort.

Riese: From Ohio.

Drew: And then Dani’s like, tells Dre that they slept with her ex and Dre’s like, “How is that possible? I’ve only been here for six months.” Enter Sophie.

Analyssa: I thought this scene was so fun. The whole Dani and Dre, Sophie entering, Sophie joking and getting into the car. Dani and Dre still joking. I liked this whole bit.

Riese: Yeah. Sapphic chaos.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Dani’s like, “Here’s my card. You’re going to need a publicist.” Which no one’s that good at karaoke. Come on. Also, she’s a publicist and then she was a party planner.

Riese: She can do it all. Women can have it all. Yeah.

Drew: I hope that Dre and Dani do have some sort of…

Riese: Yes.

Drew: We’ll get to it later when Dani’s like, “I’m just so loyal,” but I’m like, “Sophie left you at the altar. Like please fuck Dre. And then when Dani and Sophie leave and Dre’s just laughing at the circumstance, I was like, “I’m in love.” Like Dre. Yeah. I’m immediately just like I, this is, yes. I like, this character’s great. Autostraddle calendars have once again, proven to have good taste.

Riese: Excellent taste.

Drew: Then we finally check back in with Angie who has some gloves on, like latex gloves on. And her roommate’s like, “I thought you knew your way around there.” And Angie says, “Well, we did stuff but we never had sex.” Which I say, “Why couldn’t Jordi just be trans? Why couldn’t that just be the case?” And also obviously people, especially teenagers, have sex on their own. I guess I just was like, how long were Jordi and Angie together?

Riese: Two years.

Drew: And also, I’m sorry, but the way that they sold us the character of Jordi was like that she was like wild girl. They didn’t ever do anything sexual beyond making out and boob stuff.

Riese: It’s hard to talk about ’cause it’s not like I want to be, I really wish those teenagers would bone. But then it’s also at the same time, gossip girl in the OC, we’re used to seeing the sex lives of teenagers on our screens, but usually played by older actors. So it’s something that’s in the discourse. But I was like, “Really? You guys were together for two to three years?” I mean, teenagers are notoriously frisky.

Drew: I fully believe that there are plenty of teenage couples who are not having sex anywhere together and are just making out. I don’t believe that Jordi and Angie, given what about those characters? That doesn’t really line up with them. It’s also just why couldn’t Jordi be trans? What are you accomplishing? The actor, she didn’t ask to be cis. That was Jamie’s thing. What are you accomplishing by Cannon making Jordi cis here? Okay, you didn’t want to engage with it when Jordi was on the show in all these interesting ways that we’ve already covered on this podcast, but it’s literally just writing a scene different, writing one line differently here in a way that…

And I guess it’s to eventually lead to Angie being like, “I’m ready to have sex with a professor,” which I’m like, “Really, you would rather Angie’s thing be like, ‘Oh my God, I’m finally ready to have sex with this professor because I’m so in love and I’m comfortable with my body now,'” as opposed to “She fucked her trans girlfriend.” It’s that, we’re so against, I’m just…

Analyssa: But also queer Gen Z thinks about sex and virginity in such a different way than when I was in high school. At least, I’ll speak personally. So that they didn’t even really need to do all this to say that. If it really is, Angie is nervous about going away with this guy, which seems to be the thrust of this whole thing. She’s never had sex with a guy. She’s never had sex with an older person before. She’s never had sex with like…

Riese: A man.

Analyssa: Like a cis man or what? I don’t know. There’s so many other ways that, yeah, it’s not the same way you’re coming at it, Drew, but I was just like, it just felt very weirdly genitals focused in a way that I don’t think Gen Z of being around virginity as a concept anymore. They’re just like, “Yeah, we hooked up,” or “Yeah…” I don’t know. Just feels really weird.

Drew: I have no idea what 18- and 19-year-olds, 18- and 19-year-old queer people’s relationship to virginity is. But do you know who else doesn’t know? The writers of The L Word: Generation Q. It is so clear that they are just projecting whatever experiences they had as straight 18-year-olds onto… It’s like they’ve forgotten that Angie was in a queer relationship and they don’t want to engage with it. They don’t want to engage with what that was like. They just want to do this fucking storyline with the professor. I was so, this all pissed me off. I was so mad. I was just like, and not because again, not because I need teenagers to fuck. But, in fact, if they are going to, I would rather it be with each other than with full grown adults. That’s my hot take.

Analyssa: This is what I mean, is this dialogue is so contrived as to say number one, I’ve never looked at another girl’s literal vagina. And number two, I am a virgin. No penis has been inside. It’s all just so genitalia focused. Sorry to be so gross, but like…

Drew: No, yeah.

Analyssa: And to no end except to say, “I’m going to lose my virginity to my old professor.” Again, who wants that? Who asked?

Riese: And why is she ready for that now but wasn’t ready to have sex with Jordi a month ago?

Drew: Yeah. Makes no sense.

Riese: She barely knows this man. I honestly thought, I thought at this part, there was a moment when I was like, “Is she going to go inside this girl’s vagina and then start to feel like sexual feelings towards her while she’s inside?”

Analyssa: I was really nervous about that too.

Riese: That would’ve been more exciting than what did happen. It would’ve been gross and weird. And again, I don’t know how to talk about teenagers, but I was like, at least that’d be interesting.

Analyssa: Also, the first time that Jordi comes over, Angie is like, “We have the room to ourselves.” It’s like if they were just making out the whole time anyway, why do they care? You can do that when Bette and Tina are in the kitchen cooking.

Riese: I just could not believe that people are really waiting in that regard. Right.

Analyssa: Anyway, another part of this that drove me absolutely bananas is that when they are talking about sex, Bella, the roommate is like, “Only with consent. We love consent.” Yeah, we love consent. And it’s like, if two Gen Zs are talking about this, then it would also be fucking weird to them that Angie is hooking up with her professor. Sorry.

Riese: Right. And also that felt like it was just like, they just wanted to remind us that. When I think that, in fact the show already does a good job reminding us of consent with things like when Sophie was like, “I can’t do this.” And Finley instantly was like, “We don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do.” Those are the subtle ways you can communicate about consent. You don’t have to have two Gen Zers looking each other in the eyes going, “We love consent,” like they’re like a cartoon that’s in a sex ed pamphlet.

Analyssa: Especially when one of them is in a consent dubious relationship that you put them in. What do you mean? Whatever. Anyway.

Drew: Just feel like Jordan Hull’s so talented.

Analyssa: Correct.

Drew: And it fucking sucks that they’ve really never known what to do with her beyond being Beth’s daughter. Which is fine. If that was the only role she played on the show, fine. And look, obviously I wish that Tess was trans, but with Jordi it’s just like, you want to do a thing where it’s only the next generation where Shane would never be with a trans woman, which isn’t true. It doesn’t align with, I mean, Shane’s character in the original series would absolutely have dated a trans woman. But even like fine, you want to keep that. You want to say that trans people were invented yesterday, okay, then make that part of the Gen Z story. Make that be the younger generation. Angie’s dating a trans girl. And to just do this basic boring stuff that you would see on this, the most boring sort of college show, whatever. It’s such a bummer.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. One thing I did like was that she did say, she was like, “And then you know, you tell him what you want.” And Angie was like, “And I’ll just know what I want?” Because I feel like that’s often part of the consent dialogue is that the person on the other end just, you assume that that person knows what they want and can communicate it immediately. And that’s not always the case. And I feel like that was a good sort of moment where it was Angie being like, “What if I don’t know what I want?”

Drew: I have one more thing to say and that is, if Angie didn’t, and Jordi just made out and Angie doesn’t masturbate and is this uncomfortable with her body and this unclear what she wants, it makes the fact that she is about to enter a sexual relationship and really already has entered a sexual relationship with this man who is like, he’s my age.

Analyssa: 28.

Riese: Right, yeah.

Drew: He’s at least, he’s got to be late twenties. And it’s just so fucked. And if the show doesn’t know that, which I really thought they did. I thought they were going somewhere, and now I’m a bit scared. If they don’t know how fucked it is, I’m going to be irate.

Riese: They have to know.

Analyssa: It has to be headed somewhere. What I would love is, I was going to say, and then Angie’s roommate is sort of like, “Let’s talk about masturbation.” That’s not what she says, but it’s clear that they’re going to talk about vibrators and stuff. I was like, “Okay, maybe we are introducing Angie to the concept of her own body and her own, what excites her. And that will lead to her being like, “Actually, I want to explore more with more people or more people my age, or I want to do something more casual. I’m already in something really serious after just having dated someone for two years.” That’s my hope for where they’re going.

Drew: And finally we get to go back to a storyline I’m interested in. Alice at the movies. She’s asking the woman behind her for advice on what, she’s like, “Does that look like they’re, does it look like they’re dating or that they’re cousins?” Then Taylor kisses the woman that she’s with, and then the just Emmy worthy delivery of this woman who goes, “Let’s hope they’re not full blood.” Oh, I don’t know who this actress is, but yeah, give her the guest actor-

Riese: Pulitzer.

Drew: Pulitzer. And then Alice does what Alice does best and causes a scene.

Analyssa: I loved it. No notes. I do think that Taylor could’ve explained this a little better. Just being like, “I thought we were not exclusive,” would’ve really solved a lot of this conversation. It goes on for a really long time, which is I imagine and see annoying to all the other movie goers.

Drew: What movie were they watching? I couldn’t tell. It was obviously an old movie.

Analyssa: Only you would be able to answer that Drew.

Riese: Yeah. There’s absolutely no way that we would be able to identify a film that you could not identify.

Analyssa: I could do one frame from 27 Dresses. I would nail it and I think Drew would not, but that’s maybe the only one.

Drew: If you listening, wherever you are, were able to tell what movie it is. Or if you worked on the show and you’re listening, hi, how you doing? Are you doing anything with this Angie storyline? Let me know what movie it is because I’m curious. But yes, Taylor could have explained it better or been like, “Let’s talk about this outside,” though for comic reasons I’m glad they didn’t. But I loved, ugh, this is what I’m constantly trying to communicate to people. Dating is dating and when you are just starting to date someone, you have no, I mean, you never have ownership over another person, but you really have no, you can’t be so invested.

This is something that I think I constantly see people not doing well, which is if you’re a few dates in, even if you’ve had three days of sex. How exciting. That’s really cool. That’s really exciting. Maybe in your eyes you’re like, “I’m falling so hard.” And to find out the person still going on other dates would be hurtful, but they didn’t do anything wrong. And it’d be good to not make assumptions about what someone who you’ve just met is thinking. And dating’s about experimentation and about meeting people and about figuring out what you want. And Taylor and Dre are the MVPs of this episode.

Riese: Except that Taylor lied about having to work.

Drew: Yeah. I think that if you’re newly dating someone, if I said to my girlfriend of a year and a half, “I’m working,” and I was actually doing something else, that’s lying. But if I’ve been dating someone for a week and they’re like, “Oh, what are you doing?” I mean, I guess it is, it’s not necessary. I would probably just be like, “I’m busy.” I wouldn’t make a lie.

Analyssa: That’s the thing that takes it to like-

Riese: I’ll just say, “I can’t.” I would just be like, “Oh, I can’t tonight.” But.

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s what makes it weirdly unkind to me is being like, “I have to work. I have something that I’m doing.” Instead of just being like, “I can’t,” or, “I’m busy,” or “I have other plans.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. I agree with that.

Analyssa: That’s a little tough.

Riese: That’s what I would say. ‘Cause I do feel like it is weird to say something, “Oh, I can’t, I’m going out with somebody else.” But-

Drew: Right.

Riese: Totally.

Analyssa: I feel like I would just be like, “I can’t,” and they kind of know what that means, you know?

Riese: Right.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah. I very much am of the belief, if you have not had a conversation with the person you think in your head you’re exclusive with about being exclusive, then you’re probably not. And just go ahead and have that conversation if that’s what you want. But it does not feel great about Taylor’s character that she fully just told a lie. But.

Drew: Yeah. That’s true.

Riese: But do you feel like she’s breaking up with Alice here when she’s like, “You’re in this different world and I’m not in it and I want to be in my normal world?” You don’t think so?

Drew: No. She just says, “I want to go slow.”

Analyssa: Oh, I think they’re broken up.

Riese: Right? I know Gretchen didn’t think they were broken up, but I thought they were broken up and I was devastated for this couple that I’ve already deeply invested in.

Analyssa: In. Yeah, I was really sad. I was like, what the fuck?

Drew: She literally says though, “I want to go slow.”

Analyssa: No, but she was like, “I want to turn it down, and I didn’t know how to tell you.” And Alice was like, “Well, this was a really way to find out,” and then walks out. I just feel like it’s… And he is like-

Drew: I still, I’m not, I haven’t given up on them yet.

Analyssa: I love that. I hope that the show has not either.

Riese: Alice… yeah.

Drew: I do appreciate when Taylor says to Alice, like, “You haven’t been normal for so long, you can’t even see it. You can’t even realize.” Which I do think happens to rich people, famous people.

Riese: Fancy people.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I bet it’s happened to the actors of the original series of The L Word who are back on this show. Probably there’s a little bit of meta stuff there. Then we go back to Micah and Maribel, and again, it’s the same things we were talking about before. There are some fun jokey moments like when they’re trying to list off Micah’s qualities and Micah’s like, “I’m anxious.” And she’s like, “You want our kid to be anxious?” That got a laugh out of me.

Riese: They look at the screen and one of the things that they can check off there on their thing is that, is bachelor’s degree. They click master’s degree. They want the donor to have a master’s degree. And I’m telling you, at the end, they end up getting zero results. Right? You got to get rid of that master’s degree.

Drew: Why do you need someone to have a master’s degree?

Riese: I personally wanted a donor who was really smart because I want to have a kid who’s really smart so that we can be nerds together. That’s important to me. I don’t know if, is that problematic? Whatever. That’s what I wanted.

Analyssa: I was going to say, even though, yeah, what you said over six feet, there is something darkly comedic about how changing these little characteristics will just take your options to zero. That can be in there.

Riese: I don’t know. I mean, I think most couples where they’re looking to have a donor who’s of a specific race, that ends up narrowing the field so dramatically that that’s kind of often all they can narrow it to, which is obviously incredibly frustrating, but I imagine that they would be coming up against that as well.

Analyssa: That’s kind of where I thought they would land when they were like, “Yeah, we want someone who’s kind of like both of us,” was running into, again, a more interesting problem to explore, is there aren’t that many sperm donors who are of my ethnicity or of yours. What do we do about that? How do we… ?

Riese: There are a lot, but there’s not tons.

Drew: I just feel like some of the least intelligent people I’ve met have master’s degrees. Sort of like college degrees in general. I just feel like there’s no, “Oh, you want your kid to be intelligent. Okay, well maybe read to them when they’re a baby.” I don’t know. I just am like…

Riese: They give you the donor’s GPA, their SAT scores, all that stuff.

Drew: Really?

Analyssa: Do they really?

Riese: Yeah. And then also they’ll give you an essay. There’s also an option, you can listen to the donor speaking out loud, which I didn’t want to do, ’cause I was like, “There’s no way I’m going to listen to a man talk and feel affection for him in any way. That’s just going to ruin it for me, whatever it is.” And pictures and stuff. I mean, you have to sign up for a real account. They obviously hadn’t signed up for a real account yet, which they would do if they were really looking because they’d want to see pictures.

Analyssa: In that case, I would opt to read the people who wrote essays.

Riese: Yeah. They have to answer questions.

Analyssa: That’s where I would start personally in this conundrum.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. What I find so fascinating about this is if you wanted a child, like either of my parents, let’s say my dad, because he’s the one with sperm, and you picked my dad because you wanted someone like my dad and then you got me, you’d be so bummed. How many of us are that similar to our biological fathers? I get certain things, but it does just feel, I don’t know. I think finding someone in the art world, that’s the move. I just think that that’s…

Riese: Well, that’s more expensive I guess, because all the legalities around it.

Drew: Oh, interesting.

Riese: They’ll tell you, getting a known donor is actually more expensive than getting a non known donor because all the paperwork you have to do with it apparently is really expensive. But I think, I don’t know, I feel like Bette and Tina were going for a certain vibe that was kind of, made a little, made some sense in terms of what they were looking for.

But yeah, you’re not going to find, I think it’s sort of, you feel like, as somebody who’s trying to get pregnant who’s not in a relationship with somebody who can provide the sperm that you need to get pregnant. You’re like, “Well, maybe this one silver lining is that I can pick somebody based on these qualities or something.” I don’t know. I’m not sure. Anyway, she should pick a shorty. She should pick a 5’3 dummy. Gretchen told me to pick a beautiful idiot. She was like, “Everyone loves the beautiful idiot.” Okay.

Drew: We go back to the balcony. Tess says that she let herself think long-term, and Shane says that she’s not happy.

Riese: Yeah. I wonder why.

Drew: And Angie’s roommate is ordering her vibrator, and this was the one moment where I thought, I don’t, what did, there must have been a line that made me say this. All I have in my notes is, “Wait, are they going to fuck?” I don’t, but I wish I’d written down, knowing that that was a controversial feeling, I wish I’d written down what line it was.

Analyssa: I had the same reaction at first and then it ended up being jokey about them mixing up their vibrators in a way that I was like, “That’s not what they’re doing here.” It is I think just what Riese said, which is that Jordan Hull has a lot of chemistry and is shiny around so many people that I was like, “Oh, some interest.” And then I was like, “No, way, no.”

Drew: Okay. So then after that brief moment, we go back to the balcony. Finley has arrived at Shane’s and lets them out and Shane is like, “I’ll get my stuff and the dog and leave,” and it’s like, “Just go to therapy. It’s not that hard.”

Riese: Also, it’s Shane’s apartment.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know what’s happening there.

Riese: But Shane is always, Shane would fully be like, “I’m going to take the dog and a small duffle bag and all of my, I’m going to leave all my possessions here forever.”

Drew: Yeah, I do understand that move.

Analyssa: Yes. Well trod on this podcast is that you and me both understand that point of view and I simply do not. If it is my house and my furniture, I will be taking it. Thank you.

Drew: Okay, so then we finish the Micah and Maribel story with them not finding a donor, which we’ve already covered.

Riese: We love these actors so much as people, you know.

Drew: We know. It makes this… I mean, that is where the frustration comes from. The actors are always not, it’s not their fault to me ever.

Riese: Yeah. Leo’s so great.

Analyssa: And they do such good stuff with the stuff that they have that I get frustrated that there isn’t more interesting stuff for them to do or more. I just…

Drew: They’re so good that I fully didn’t think about all the things that I’m now angry about. I was just sort of like, “Okay, okay. I’m, brain off. Smooth, smooth, smooth.”

Analyssa: In my friend group, we call this and another thing where you go see a movie and you kind of have a fun time and afterwards you’re like, “Yeah, it was fun. I enjoyed it.” And then one person says one thing and three hours later you’re still going, “And another thing about that movie, and another thing about that movie.”

Riese: That’s this podcast. That’s this podcast.

One of us will like a scene, someone else will have a gripe. And then we’ll be like, “Actually building off of that gripe, I also hated this.”

Analyssa: One finger up, right. Now that you’ve said something,

Drew: Should we have an And Just Like That podcast called And Another Thing?

Riese: And another thing, dot, dot, dot. God, I couldn’t yell about that show forever.

Drew: I know.

Riese: Truth be told, this is not the only incoherent show on television.

Analyssa: Far from.

Drew: That’s a really great point.

Analyssa: Well, the next scene is literally, and another thing about this show for me, which is that Angie is going to go with her professor on her weekend.

Drew: And the music is like inspirational. The music is like Angie has come into her womanhood and her body and is going to go have sex with this man. What? No. Bad. No. Bad L Word.

Riese: I hope he listened to his audiobook on the drive.

Drew: Oh Lord.

Analyssa: What do the teens call it? Getting the ick. I’m like waiting for Angie to get an ick about this man. I have many of them.

Riese: I hope that Shane and Alice run into them at a truck stop and neither of them know, but judging it by their own pass if they can make an ethical judgment about the morality of this relationship. But eventually they’re like, “No, you know what? We have to say something.” And then they do a car chase all the way to Santa Barbara or wherever, and then they get out and they go to La Jolla and they’re like, “You can’t be with this man. He’s your teacher.”

Analyssa: Beautiful. Put Riese in the room. Alice is reading Margaret Cho’s book dejectedly in bed because-

Riese: Yes, I love that.

Analyssa: She’s been dumped, and I love the implication that Margaret Cho brought copies of her book to the Alice show.

Riese: Yeah. It’s like-

Analyssa: For sure.

Analyssa: Yeah. Or Alice is on the advanced reader copy list. I love it. And Alice’s phone rings and she’s like, “Where are you? Outside?” And it’s Shane.

Riese: It’s obviously Shane.

Analyssa: Obviously Shane. Then Finley and Tess are talking, and Finley is sort of trying to own up for the fire alarm fiasco. This is a very, to me, this is AA kind of attempt at representation. She’s sort of doing a mini immediate amends and she’s just saying that she will pay what the bar didn’t make and she’ll pay the fine. Tess can-

Riese: Finley’s finances just stress me out so bad. I’m like, “Do not volunteer that. You can’t afford that right now. What are you doing?”

Analyssa: Anytime Finley talks about money? I’m like, “Shh. No, no, no.”

Drew: When she’s like, “I needed to leave or else I would drink.” I was like, “Maybe you shouldn’t work at a bar.” I don’t know. Just a thought. Maybe you shouldn’t be working at a bar because it’s, you know?

Analyssa: Where alcohol is readily available anytime you have that feeling. Yeah.

Riese: I was so nervous that she was going to drink. That’s why she wanted Sophie to leave. And the fact that she didn’t drink, I was like, that gave me so many positive vibes that carried me through the rest of the episode.

Analyssa: A win’s a win, you know?

Riese: Carried me right up the vaginal canal into that condom.

Drew: And another thing, I wish that Sophie had said to Finley in that scene, “We don’t leave together, but I need to see you get in your car and leave and not be in the bar.”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Right?

Analyssa: Yeah. Like, “I don’t want to leave you here.”

Riese: Yeah. I don’t want to leave you. I don’t want to leave you in the room, the alcohol room, in a room of alcohol in the alcohol museum.

Analyssa: And Tess suggests that they go to a meeting, and I did not understand the vibe I was supposed to feel about them going to a meeting. There was weird music underneath it. But I’m happy that that’s what they’ve decided to do. Genuinely. Personally, I am.

Riese: So in the interview that we published with Jacqueline, I think two weeks ago now, she said that Tess is Finley’s sponsor.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Okay.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Just so we know. But I thought it was nice. I thought it was a nice little thing.

Analyssa: I agree. I like going to a meeting.

Drew: And then we go to Sophie’s, where Sophie gives Dani ice cream and popcorn, which is oh, two best snacks. And Sophie’s like, “That was all so gay,” and Dani’s like, “There weren’t enough of us.” This is also, I do think that when this episode ended, I just, in my brain was like, Alice causing a scene at the movie, Sophie, Dani, Dre, Dre hot. I think that was my experience with this episode. But Sophie tells Dani that she can fuck Dre, which is like Dani did not need permission, but Dani’s still like, “No, I’m loyal.” Like, what? No. Why? Why?

Riese: No. Sophie wasn’t loyal to you, but also no, Sophie has a girlfriend. Sophie hooked up with this person once. If you’re not going to date someone, I mean, remember she did the same thing with Bette, being, making sure it was okay. But if she felt comfortable dating Gigi with Bette’s okay, why would she not feel comfortable dating Dre with Sophie’s okay?

Drew: Yeah. It doesn’t make sense.

Analyssa: I mean, speaking of choosing qualifications that will narrow your approval down to zero. If you’re ruling out in Los Angeles the people who have slept with your ex one time, what are you doing? Especially when they’re all hanging out at the same bar all the time. That’s actually the thing, is if you’re making your location kind of the locus of your hangs, going to be tough.

Riese: Yeah. This is what the show is about. The show is about dating your exes, your friend’s exes, and your exes’ exes. That’s the topic of the program.

Drew: Dani needs to just pull a me and just find someone in another country. It’s the only way you’re going to find someone. I mean, I wasn’t, I don’t even care about my friends and people I dated and the intermingling and whatever. That’s not even. But I do think it’s probably the only way that you can get around that is if you’re like, “Well, I’m going to look for people on Instagram who live in other countries.” Which for the record, that wasn’t, I wasn’t actively doing that. But anyways.

Analyssa: Good that you clarified.

Drew: Thanks.

Analyssa: Sophie does say that she had the best weekend with Dre.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Which I feel like is in a gray area between, she told Finley the truth and she did not. Just feels kind of weird.

Riese: Yeah. But it does feel like it was nice that it was one weekend. It was just a compact. That was like, okay, so that’s true. It was just one weekend. Yeah. It’s nice to have one weekend with somebody.

Drew: Oh, I love one weekend with somebody. Those are the best.

Riese: I remember being asked, how many times did you have sex with somebody who I had a weekend with? And I felt like being like, “Exactly how many times? I’m not sure. It was a weekend.”

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah. I agree with that, that it feels, yeah.

Analyssa: That was sort of what I thought Sophie might say is, “I can’t tell you an exact number, but it wasn’t that many. It didn’t mean anything to me.”

Riese: Yeah. I would’ve just been like, it was a weekend, so several times within that space.

Drew: I would be like, “Well, there was when she fingered me in the shower, and then I guess we kind of took a break and then a half hour later… ”

Analyssa: That is how my brain works. So I actually would be able to account for all of them.

Drew: But Sophie does a funny Matthew McConaughey impression, so, “Oh, how much, we really,” you know.

Analyssa: Yeah. There’s a lot of Wedding Planner stuff in here, which I just love. Again, my year of romantic comedies. I had already seen the Wedding Planner, so it wasn’t on my list, but I do love that one.

Drew: Then we go to Shane is showing Alice the now viral video of Alice interrupting the movie. I think that is so funny. And Shane asks Alice if she ever feels like the not right thing of their relationships has more to do with her. And she says, “Nope.” And I thought that was quite funny.

Analyssa: I did too.

Riese: I love the confidence. Because absolutely, as someone who’s a little bit younger than Alice, I would definitely be like, yes. At this point I can blame no one but myself.

Drew: Yeah. Let’s close us out.

Analyssa: And then, because as we know, sisterhood is powerful. They have a very cute moment where Alice is like, “Do you want to be a little spoon?” And Shane says that no one’s ever asked her that before.

Riese: That felt like a big moment for Shane, realizing she just takes on the role, these roles, without ever really thinking about what she wants.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree. And then they’re going to spoon with this dog in between them, which not tenable, not a sustainable situation.

Drew: It is cute.

Analyssa: But it’s very sweet.

Drew: And that my friends is the episode. I don’t know, what do we think about this episode?

Analyssa: Well, I feel like we shared a lot more of our thoughts in pod than we normally…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I will say that, again, like we said, there are individual scenes and character conversations that are really fun to me and that have life and zip and excitement to me. Then there are some underlying things that every time I think about them, I go, “And another thing,” and that is a bummer. Good for podcasting, but you know.

Drew: A lot of banter in the dialogue. And I very much enjoyed that. And I had a good time watching the episode for the most part. Yeah. Everything else has already been said. I’m excited that Dre’s going to be back and I do think Taylor’s going to be back. I don’t think that’s done.

Riese: I hope not. But I really fear it is. Because eventually Tom’s coming back.

Drew: Oh, well, what if Tom comes back next episode. We have a little moment where Alice gets to realize what she’s done, the mistakes of past relationships, and then that Tom’s like, “No, you really can not realize how you are famous.” And then she’s like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” And then she’s like to Taylor, “I talked to my ex Tom, he gave me pens, and now I realize that I’m ready to be more casual and normal with you.”

Riese: Oh yeah, that could be cute. I still want Tasha to come back.

Drew: Ugh. I don’t want to deal with that.

Riese: What if Gabby Deveaux comes back?

Drew: Well, that would be fun.

Analyssa: I love Gabby Deveaux. I really do.

Riese: Have a real full circle moment. And now look who’s on top, look who’s on bottom now.

Drew: What if Gabby Deveaux is the one?

Riese: Oh my God.

Riese: I mean, that would be a fucking twist.

Analyssa: That would follow this show’s ethos of you’ve already met the one, perhaps.

Riese: Right. I think that she thinks that maybe Tom was the one, but how about this? Gigi, Alice and Gigi. Let’s get that twosome back together—

Analyssa:: Let’s try it again.

Riese: And trust Nat. They have a shared, they are good at having sex with each other. They both wear good outfits. Let’s just get Gigi back in to Alice’s bedroom.

Drew: Yeah. Is Gigi just never going to be on the show again? All of the people on Twitter being like hashtag, Where is Bev Porter? Hashtag, Where is Gigi?

Riese: Where is Gigi? Yeah, I know. I’m still, I’m fine with the no Bette and Tina still.

Drew: Same.

Riese: I think it’s good. I like that we’ve let the other characters have more time.

Analyssa: Yeah. And I really love Riese, the point you keep making about Leisha Haley, like getting to front the series basically now, being one of the better cornerstones of episodes now is really fun.

Riese: Yeah, definitely. I agree with my own point there.

Analyssa: Genius. As you should, Queen.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at To L and Back and back, and you can also email us at To L and Back Cast @gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JAXCO. This episode was produced, edited in mix by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram at Lauren Taylor Klein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw underscore Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram at Aanaloka with two A’s and on Twitter at Analoka with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard, everywhere at autowin. Autostraddle is at Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle dot com. And finally, to end this ep, let’s hear some keyword from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1. Quart.

Analyssa: Quadrilacteral.

Drew: What’d you say?

Riese: I said Queensland. It’s in Australia.

Drew: What’d you say?

Analyssa: I think I said Quadrilacteral, and what I meant was Quadrilateral.

Drew: Do you have a reason or was it just a fun one?

Analyssa: Just thinking about all the various interconnections of weird dating.

Drew: I said quart because I was like, I would like a quart of soup right now. ‘Cause I’m very hungry and it’s a little chilly. It’s not really anything to do with the L words, but I think maybe they would like, you know what I want? I want a quart of ice cream and popcorn. Just like-

Riese: Nice.

Drew: They probably had a pint because that’s more traditional. But let’s get a quart.

Riese: Oh man. I want Gretchen to make me popcorn because hers is better than the one I make myself.

Analyssa: Oh, I want ice cream.

Drew: I think ice cream is for all weather. To loop back around to weather. Let’s bookend with weather. An exciting day at To L and Back.

Analyssa: Woohoo. You know it’s big when we’re talking weather. All right.

Riese: Okay, cats and dogs.

Analyssa: Nice.

“To L And Back: Gen Q Edition” Podcast 304: Last To Know

Spooky scary skeletons, it’s a Halloween episode! We’ve got thrills, chills, and parties galore. One of the more realistic things that’s ever happened in The L Word universe is the endless list of Halloween options for our Gen Q friends.

Alice and Taylor are getting cozy at home, in the time honored tradition of three-straight days of gay sex. Sophie, Finley and Dani hit Dana’s for a costume party, while Shane is hitting on Ivy. And in search of more parenting advice from queer elders, Micah and Maribel meet none other than very special guest and original The L Word icon, Max. Max has been off living his own happily ever after far, far away (spiritually, I mean, he’s still in LA) from all of these messy weirdos, and that is perhaps the biggest win of them all.

A black button that says listen on Apple Podcasts in purple and white lettering

A black button says Listen on Spotify in white and green text

SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s recap for The L Word Generation Q Episode 304!
+ The band LA Exes, whose concert almost introduced me to a new Bad Friend
+ Drew’s original interview with Daniel Sea
+ Drew’s new interview with Daniel Sea about returning to The L Word Generation Q is up now!
+ We published this guide to alternative to calling the cops, or you can visit this website for community-based alternatives in your city!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

All: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: The last time you heard us, I was leaving to get on a flight. And even though— It’s interesting how time works is I guess what I’m saying because I—

Analyssa: It’s been a week since they’ve heard the podcast episode, but now you’re back and you’ve gone to Toronto.

Drew: For two weeks.

Analyssa: For two weeks.

Riese: Did you see Tina?

Drew: I did, we hung out.

Analyssa: Oh, wow. Are they doing well?

Drew: Yeah, they seem to be really working on their relationship in a way that feels really healthy and really—

Analyssa: That’s good, yeah.

Drew: It’s one of those things where I’m like, “Oh, wow, I feel like my friends are growing up.” And it’s like, yeah, they’re in their 50s, but…

Analyssa: It has to happen at some point for us all.

Drew: I’m proud of them.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Did either of you see the commenter that was like, “I’ve narrowed it down and I think Tina’s working on Paw Patrol”? I thought it was so funny.

Riese: Oh my God.

Analyssa: They listed a bunch of shows that have more than nine seasons that film in Toronto and Paw Patrol was the only one that logically made sense, which really made me laugh.

Drew: That is very funny. Tina working on a show that spreads police propaganda to children, honestly checks out with her.

Analyssa: That’s literally what the commenter said. That was the nail in the coffin like, “This is the show.”

Riese: We have a lot to discuss.

Analyssa: So much to discuss.

Drew: We’re recording during the day, which is something we don’t usually do.

Analyssa: The sun is shining while we’re recording this.

Riese: The sun is brilliantly shining.

Analyssa: It’s bringing a different energy to this recording.

Riese: Yeah, I’m also recovering from the coronavirus, which I would not recommend.

Drew: You’re not a fan?

Riese: No, I didn’t like it. I think the government should try to do something about it.

Analyssa: That’s an interesting take. We should be talking about that more maybe.

Riese: Because yeah, it’s very unpleasant, and I just don’t recommend it. I can’t endorse it.

Drew: Well, then should we just jump into it?

Riese: Let’s leap into it.

Drew: Okay, well, this is episode 304 Last to Know. It’s directed by Em Weinstein, who directed the previous episode, and it is written by Nova Cypress Black, and this is their first television episode which is super exciting.

Analyssa: Cool.

Drew: That also means that this episode of The L Word is written and directed by nonbinary people.

Riese: That’s fantastic.

Drew: Yeah. It is exciting that there are trans people behind the camera. It’s also exciting that it’s spooky season.

Riese: Yeah, it’s our first-ever holiday since Angie’s half-birthday celebration.

Drew: It’s incredible.

Riese: I’m so excited to see because it’s an acknowledgment that time passes, and certain things happen during certain times of year. And that’s a big area of growth for this show, I think.

Analyssa: Yeah, putting stakes in the ground of any calendar dates at all.

Riese: Absolutely, yes. Yeah, mm-hmm.

Drew: It does scare me a little bit because now we have that as a reference point when we’re trying to logically grasp things, but that’s more your pet project than mine.

Riese: Yeah, that’s my issue. I am a little nervous that they might actually get to Christmas, and that would blow my opportunity as a writer, which is to live my dream, which is writing an L Word Christmas episode.

Drew: See, I’m more worried that all of a sudden, it’s going to be Valentine’s Day and we’re going to be like, “Wait, when did Christmas happen?”

Riese: Right, that’s true. Fair.

Drew: So, Sophie’s telling Finley that Dani’s going to be a mess and to prepare for it. But then Dani walks in perfect.

Riese: Devil may care.

Drew: Yes, over the breakup. Doesn’t care and I believe her.

Analyssa: She says I don’t care the perfect number of times to convince you that she really doesn’t care. But she does look great.

Drew: Mm-hmm, she really does.

Analyssa: And she has a fun friend named Roxy coming into town who Sophie says is her bad friend.

Riese: Yeah, Sophie says last time Roxy was in town, they ended up going to an orgy in San Luis Obispo. And I cannot think of a time when Sophie would have known Dani and Dani was single.

Analyssa: And going to that kind of party. Maybe it’s just that she knows the story.

Drew: Well, Dani says that it was actually a leather party in the Valley, so there’s also a chance that it wasn’t… Maybe she didn’t—

Analyssa: Dani wasn’t having sex at the party.

Drew: Yeah, and also, I don’t know, were they always monogamous? Who knows what their journey was as a relationship?

Analyssa: I think sometimes you do have to pick a detail to nitpick to start the podcast. It’s just like, “Ooh, we’re getting into it.”

Drew: If I were to be like, “Who’s your bad friend?” Do either of you have a go-to person.

Riese: Oh, I mean I used to.

Analyssa: Yeah, I feel like I used to. I also feel like at times I have been the bad friend.

Riese: Yeah, I also feel like I’ve been the bad friend for sure.

Analyssa: Yeah, but this is really recently, actually, this very year. I went to a concert at some bar in Silver Lake. The band L.A. Exes, have you guys heard of them? They’re very fun, they’re all queer.

Drew: Cool.

Analyssa: I met this random person on the patio who was already pretty drunk and was like, “You should come with me to this next thing. You should come with me to this next thing.” And I did not end up doing it, but then the next day she was like, “Yeah, I ended up at a nun-themed sex party.”

Drew: I do like people like that.

Analyssa: She could have been my bad friend.

Riese: Yeah, my bad friend is sober now.

Analyssa: That happens to the bad friends.

Drew: I love that for the bad friends.

Analyssa: Sometimes the bad friends say, “Actually, it’s time for a change.”

Drew: But Dani is like, “I’m going hard this Halloween.”

Riese: Which almost leads you to believe she might be planning a real costume.

Drew: You would think.

Riese: And you would be wrong.

Drew: You would be wrong, yeah. We’re going to get to that.

Riese: We’ll get to that. We’ll get to that.

Drew: We do meet Roxy, and one thing I’ll say about Roxy: hot.

Analyssa: Hot.

Riese: Hot, yeah. Also, she was the subletter in Hacks that Hannah slept with, remember?

Analyssa: Oh.

Riese: Have you seen Hacks?

Drew: I haven’t.

Riese: Oh my God.

Drew: I know. I will watch it.

Riese: You’ve seen Hacks?

Analyssa: I’ve seen this first season.

Riese: So, you just nodded in recognition even though you didn’t know what I was talking about. I appreciate that affirmation.

Analyssa: I nodded in recognition, number one, of the television show that you were referencing, and number two, that there is queer sex on that television program, which I know about.

Riese: Yes. Well, for anyone at home who watched Hacks, she was in it. She was also in Shameless.

Drew: I love when there’s just a queer person who all of a sudden starts popping up in queer shows and in a year or two will be the lead of a queer show. And you’re just like, “Oh, that’s fun.”

Riese: Yeah, yeah, like Roberta Colindrez, just like that.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Speaking of queer people, Taylor is in Alice’s bed and is clearly having feelings about Alice being Alice. And when I say Alice being Alice, I mean Alice being Aloce.

Riese: Yes, exactly. Yeah, she’s intimidated by how wonderful Alice looks. While she thinks she looks like—

Taylor: Halfway to Walking Dead extra. Just missing blood here, some dirt.

Riese: I think she looks fantastic, but also, Alice’s outfit I love so much.

Analyssa: Yeah, really good outfit.

Riese: Yeah, I would be intimidated by that outfit.

Analyssa: She’s always wearing very pressed pants, which would intimidate me.

Riese: Yeah, she does look amazing.

Drew: Yeah, I think you can get pressed pants when you’re rich.

Analyssa: Yeah, and then you just have fancier hangers and fancy people to do your fancy laundry and stuff.

Drew: Exactly, exactly.

Analyssa: Anyway, they’re talking about their Halloween plans, and Alice wants to watch movies at home. She doesn’t want to go to—

Drew: Excuse me, she wants to do a scary movie marathon, which feels like a really clear specific thing and I was like yeah.

Analyssa: You would think that. That was very Drew.

Riese: And they’ve been having sex for three days, I guess.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: They haven’t left the home.

Riese: Which is fantastic.

Drew: I love that.

Analyssa: A queer ritual.

Drew: One thing I’ll say is, not to nitpick, but I wish we could have seen it. We’ll get through this, but there’s some conflict, and I was… Luckily, it gets resolved in a cute way. Sorry, spoiler alert if you haven’t watched the episode, you just like to follow the plots with our podcasting. I’d love to have just… I wanted to see the first date, the first kiss. I love that shit, but it’s fine.

Riese: I mean on the upside, it is finally… Because I feel like a big problem this show has is that it seems like the characters don’t exist when we’re not watching them.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: So, it’s a rare example of them acknowledging that characters do exist when we’re not watching them. But I would have loved to see them wake up together and kiss. I feel like that would have been cute.

Drew: Yeah, but I like them together, I’m excited to see… Maybe when you find the one, you don’t have first kisses and first dates. You have third days. Speaking of committed relationships— I don’t think that really works.

Riese: That doesn’t really work, no.

Drew: Yeah, no.

Riese: Speaking of people.

Drew: Speaking of Halloween, Shane is dressing Tess’s mom up as Dolly Parton.

Analyssa: Very cute, and Tess is just vaguely bustling around the room, ignoring Shane, only really talking to her mom, being rude to Shane. Which is rude on its own, but also because Shane’s arms look really good this morning.

Riese: I know the muscle T.

Analyssa: I just think we could have noticed that maybe a little bit.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I don’t understand what’s happening. I don’t understand who Tess is. There’s a person… Obviously, if your mom’s sick, you’re going through a lot, but the show doesn’t seem to engage with that specifically. And so, I’m just very confused how Tess went from, “I love you so much I want to open a second baby,” to, “I hate you.”

Analyssa: “I want to carry your second bar actually inside me.”

Riese: Yeah, are we supposed to think it’s just because she’s stressed out about, again, bar number two, which we all agree is ill-advised.

Drew: But she wanted it, she begged. It just feels like justifying Shane cheating with Kehlani. And it’s like, once again, you don’t have to justify that.

Analyssa: Which is annoying because Shane has already cheated with… Now it’s just this weird torpedo into any goodwill I have towards Tess. The bad thing has already been done. I don’t need more information about why Tess is being bad.

Drew: Is this a hot take? Am I about to say something true or is it just a feeling I’m having right now? The L Word past and present is bad at breaking up their couples. When they have couples break up, it’s done in a way that feels a little bit rushed and a little bit like… Yes, I get that people cheat, but this just feels like you’re creating drama.

Riese: I don’t know.

Drew: That’s feeling right to me in this moment, and if next week it’s not feeling right, I’ll make a correction.

Riese: I mean I do feel like I needed to see more of Tess. I felt like this was a good scene in terms of pushing Shane farther away from Tess. I feel like I actually needed more of it than we got, you know what I mean? To be built up a little bit because I don’t know. Because now it’s like I misremembered. I misremembered that Tess was the one who wanted to start poker.
So, for some reason, in this season, my whole concept of who this character is because everything she’s doing I’m like, “This is consistent with this person who I no longer like,” but was it always like this?

Drew: Yeah, what’s going on?

Riese: I do feel like she does make things harder than they have to be, and she does martyr herself even though no one wants her to, and that’s irritating. And we see that continuing to happen in the episode. But Shane just wants to eat an apple like Johnny Appleseed and to make dinner plans.

Analyssa: Shane is just like, “We have a reservation, are you still good for that?” The level that it turns me off is the snapping and being like, “I can’t deal with you right now.” That feels really out of nowhere, whereas I think you’re right the actions are all actually pretty consistent and would be fine. It’s how people engage with each other.

Drew: Also, because Shane just cheated, it so easily could have been done in a way where Tess is like, “Are you still good with dinner plans?” And then Shane is being like, “I don’t know, I’m brooding, I’m hot.” And then Tess could snap. And then you’d be like, “Okay, yes, is Tess a little bit on edge and whatever?” But at least you’d feel justified in a way that this just feels like-

Riese: But maybe this has been happening all along and that’s how we got here, to begin with. Maybe that’s-

Drew: Right, not in the scenes like when Alice and Taylor were having their first kiss.

Riese: Right, maybe this feeling of Tess brushing Shane off or whatever has been happening for a while, I don’t know. But isn’t Shane the one who got her mom into that costume and did all her makeup and stuff?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Isn’t she at least going to be like, “Wow, you did a really good job”?

Drew: I know, right.

Riese: I would be so impressed if my partner did that with my mom, with my sick mom. I’d be like, “Oh my God, nice.”

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s the thing is I think it’s showing Shane actually being really good and committed to Tess in their life together.

Riese: Yeah, and making her breakfast.

Analyssa: And then Shane getting shut down, which is a weird thing to wrap your head around when you know that Shane has just had sex with Kehlani, and in fact, might be on her way to do it again.

Riese: But aren’t we all?

Analyssa: I wish.

Drew: Speaking of breakfast, Maribel is dressed as an avocado. You can have avocados for breakfast.

Riese: You can, avocado toast.

Analyssa: Famously.

Drew: Yeah, it’s not something I eat for breakfast very often, but-

Analyssa: I love an avocado toast.

Drew: Me too.

Analyssa: You just can’t keep avocados in the house.

Drew: Right, this is my feeling. Okay, Micah doesn’t want to dress as the other half of the avocado because-

Riese: Devastating.

Drew: I was a little confused about this because eventually, we see this isn’t the case. Does he think that he’s going to be the only trans parent there or is the whole point of going to the thing because they’re a trans parent pair?

Riese: That’s the whole point of going.

Analyssa: The whole point of going is they’re going to meet trans parents. I thought he was like, “I don’t want to look silly in front of them.” But then they arrive at the party and every single person’s wearing a costume such that Micah actually looks silly for not wearing a costume.

Drew: It is always better to be the person who goes too much with the costume at a costume party than goes too little, in my opinion.

Analyssa: I like to do something right in the middle.

Drew: Well, sure.

Analyssa: I did a Kim Possible. If no one else was dressed up, I still look hot.

Drew: Yeah, I mean obviously right in the middle is ideal, but I’m just saying if we have to pick whatever.

Analyssa: One extreme or the other.

Riese: I think he should have dressed up as a tomato, and then together they would have been a little salad.

Drew: That’s nice.

Analyssa: Ew, he could have dressed up as a little piece of bread.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: Also, the avocado is really easily removable, so he could have just worn it.

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. It feels like… Anyways.

Riese: Yeah, big issue. Big issue in the episode, avocado costume.

Analyssa: Speaking of dressing up, Angie’s roommate is going to be an actor tonight in something. She’s finally gotten her first paid gig.

Drew: I know, I was like, “Ooh.” And then she’s like, “It’s for one night only.” And I was like, “You’re in a haunted house, aren’t you?”

Analyssa: I was like, “And it’s tonight, interesting.” I’m famously dumb, so I did not piece together that it was a haunted house until later, but that’s a great call. And Angie can’t do it obviously because she’s got studying to lie about, so-

Riese: Which is how we know she’s still involved with her teacher. And so, we did get a little bit more information about teacher-student relations in the university, and I think it is strictly forbidden if they’re in your class at every university. And now there’s more universities that are also forbidding it even if they’re not in your class.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t enjoy watching this, I don’t know where they’re going with it.

Analyssa: No.

Drew: Maybe they’re going somewhere interesting, but all I’m writing in my notes are, “She’s 18. Leave her alone.”

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s very weird. It’s weird that she also goes to see him at a public location. There are students running around and she’s trying to kiss him.

Drew: It’s bad.

Analyssa: It’s weird.

Drew: Also, she’s bailing on plans and always studying. She’s missing out on a college experience. This older man is taking this from her, which, look, happens plenty, but it’s sad. It makes me sad for Angie.

Riese: It’s also not connected to anything else happening in the series, and I wish they had found a way to keep her connected to someone or to something. I don’t know.

Drew: My biggest issue is I don’t need her to be… If she’s not going to be connected to the series, why is she spending time with another adult? The opportunity that we could have is, “Oh, we’re going to see Gen Z queers beyond just these two teenagers in high school. We’re going to see some teenagers and 20-somethings at college and what is the queer scene like there?” A bisexual girl hooking up with her older male professor is not a new Gen Z phenomenon. It’s truly the oldest-

Riese: They probably do it less, much less than previous generations have done it.

Drew: Yeah, it’s the oldest thing ever. And so, I’m just like-

Riese: Yeah, it’s been covered. Literature, film, television, this topic has been covered. But yeah, exactly, I hadn’t thought of it that way. But if she’s going to be involved with an adult, why?

Analyssa: If we’re going to follow her at college, why not let her be a college? And if she’s going to hook up with an adult, why are we following her at college?

Drew: Yeah, just pick an adult from the cast to be evil. Not evil, I’m being whatever, but-

Analyssa: This guy literally is Dani and Sophie and Finley’s age. It’s odd. Anyway.

Drew: Speaking of vomiting, which is what this makes me want to do, a cute little dinosaur runs up and… To clarify, a child dressed up like a dinosaur runs up to Micah and-

Riese: It wasn’t an actual dinosaur.

Drew: It wasn’t an actual dinosaur.

Riese: That would have been a really fun twist though.

Analyssa: They’re trying something really new for this Halloween episode. Oh my gosh, they did try something really new in the title card. The little O of The L Word has a little jack-o’-lantern, that was fun.

Riese: Oh, yeah. Oh, really?

Drew: That was fun, yeah.

Riese: Oh, like Google.

Analyssa: It was cute. Yeah, like Google.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: Yes, I was going to say speaking of child and adult relationships, a child pukes on Micah’s shoes, and then do one of you want to talk about the big reveal?

Drew: Yes. So, first, Armand Fields, who’s an actor on Work in Progress and the new Queer as Folk shows up, which I was excited about.

Riese: Their character is named Reese, but that’s also my name, so that’s going to be happening.

Drew: Yeah. So, Reese, at least this… When I got a Drew, Drew sucked. At least this character is cool. This character is probably only going to be in one episode and is cool, so-

Riese: That’s true, I did get a good one. I got a good Reese.

Analyssa: I have never heard a character with my name on television.

Drew: Wow, that’s-

Analyssa: Keep your ears peeled.

Riese: I haven’t either until right now.

Drew: Would you want me to name a character Analyssa or would you feel weird [inaudible 00:17:55]?

Analyssa: Yeah, that’d be fun.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Yes, I’d like that, Drew.

Drew: I’ll make them good.

Riese: My Scattergories app doesn’t even recognize that your name is real.

Drew: Wow, that sucks.

Riese: It says it’s not a name.

Drew: Brutal. But the big reveal is that Reese’s partner is Max. If you don’t know Max, Max was on the original show played by Daniel Sea. And the way that Max was treated in the later seasons of the original show was-

Riese: Abysmal.

Drew: Let’s say not ideal.

Analyssa: You mean horrible?

Riese: Horrible.

Drew: And the way that Daniel was treated on set was, I’m going to say not great. And so, this is really special. I mean the music gets all twinkly when Micah doesn’t know who this person is, and I think the justification is it’s just exciting to see another trans father and that’s beautiful. But I was like, Micah’s like, “Oh my God, it’s Max from the original L Word.”

Riese: Right, yeah, and it’s so nice because everyone needs to read Drew’s interview with Daniel that we have on our website. It’s one of the best things we ever published.

Analyssa: It’s so good.

Riese: I read it again yesterday just to prepare. I also when I was showing this episode to Gretchen, as soon as Max walked out, I just paused it and was like, “Okay, so this is all the background you need to know about this person.” But yeah, the way their storyline ended was so awful.

They were pregnant, they were alone, they had just been left by their psychopath boyfriend who changed his number so that Max could not… Even though, whatever, legally I think he would have some responsibility for this child, whatever the fuck. And now, finally, unlike all the other characters from the old show that have been referenced in the new one, Max is getting a happy ending.

Drew: Yeah, it’s really nice.

Riese: No one deserves it more.

Drew: It made me… I knew that this was coming, but it made me emotional.

Riese: Yeah, I teared up.

Drew: It’s one of those things where it’s like it’s not everything, but it is something and you realize how meaningful that little something actually can be. Speaking of transitioning, I don’t have a good one for getting us back to the professor and Angie.

Analyssa: They’re out on the town, they’re wearing masks. Angie-

Riese: Well, Angie’s not.

Analyssa: Oh, yeah, Angie’s not. He’s wearing a mask.

Riese: What’s his costume?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Riese: Well, it’s bad. He should be-

Drew: It’s not even a good mask. It doesn’t cover his face enough. If the whole thing is like, “Oh, it’s Halloween, we can go out just the two of us,” then-

Analyssa: Wear a full mask.

Drew: Be fucking Jason or one of the other creepy killers.

Analyssa: Yeah, be Ghostface, obviously, yeah. And so, he is both a) nervous that people will recognize them. He flinches when Angie takes his hand, and then he’s also nervous to go into the haunted house, which to me, why bring this man?

Riese: Yeah, why bring this man?

Analyssa: Among other sins, why bring this man?

Drew: Yeah, it’s just… I mean it also doesn’t make me feel good about… Obviously, the relationship is not good because of the power dynamic and age gap and et cetera, but the fact that she doesn’t even want to go to one thing without him is also a very huge red flag to me even if he was not her professor. I don’t know, it’s a thing on top of a thing that makes me feel-

Analyssa: The hat on a hat-

Drew: Also, she’s listening to his audiobook and that cannot be a good book.

Riese: No.

Drew: That book cannot be good.

Riese: No, mm-mm.

Drew: What vibe do we think that audiobook has?

Riese: He did it himself, I think. Yeah, he recorded his own audiobook.

Analyssa: Back at the bar, Roxy makes a joke about wanting to hook up with Shane. And Finley’s like Shane is basically married, and Sophie’s like, “Well…” And Finley pushes back pretty hard.

Riese: Like there’s no possible way that that could ever be true, which this whole thing just annoyed the living daylights out of me.

Analyssa: The fight later I was like-

Riese: The fight later was-

Analyssa: “What are we talking about?”

Riese: Well, we’ll get there, we’ll get there, but it was the first time this season where I was like, “I hate this.”

Drew: I think Sophie has the best costume of anyone at the party.

Riese: Yes, thank you. Her costume rules.

Analyssa: Sorry-

Riese: What is Roxy’s costume?

Analyssa: What is Roxy’s costume? That’s my number one question.

Drew: Like a-

Riese: A vampire?

Drew: A dead zombie.

Analyssa: Zombie?

Riese: I noticed in a still from the episode that she has little fangs though, so I guess she’s a vampire, but that’s not evident in the show.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: That’s not a costume, sorry.

Riese: No, you just put white powder on your face and you’re wearing a white T-shirt, and you have the nerve to tell Sophie who hand-sewed her own raincoat with dogs, come on. Also, Sophie looks adorable.

Analyssa: Sophie’s so cute.

Drew: Yes, and the idea of, one, it happens because Sophie’s wanting to get… It’s like, “Oh, why wasn’t I hit on? Even though I’m in a committed relationship, I still want to feel whatever.” If you’re in a monogamous… Yeah, your ego whatever, but it doesn’t need to be like-

Riese: Yeah, it’s not an emergency.

Drew: It’s not an emergency, and two, they could figure out a way to keep the conceit and still slut it up a bit. I’m a firm believer that you can both be slutty and be high-concept.

Riese: Absolutely. That’s an important thing to know for life.

Drew: Yeah, I did laugh at-

Sophie: I made this.
Dani: Yeah, I can tell.
Sophie: Oh, fuck.

Drew: I do really like the Dani, Sophie friendship now where you feel the history, you feel that they know each other, you feel like there’s still a little bit of bad blood, but in a fun way where there’s a little bit of teasing, but they-

Analyssa: We’re going to rib, but yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, I also think Finley’s dressed as James Dean, Rebel Without a Cause. Is that what-

Drew: Wow, I didn’t even-

Analyssa: I knew it was a reference to something.

Drew: Was she wearing a red jacket?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, I didn’t even-

Analyssa: Did Finley have a little stubble?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I thought that was very interesting just because I heard that comment two episodes ago when she said she’s on her gender training.

Drew: Something fun about James Dean is that if you’re right before… If Finley’s on a gender journey, James Dean can appeal to both sides of the… Because the first reason I shaved my beard six months before I came out was to dress up as James Dean for a dead celebrities party.

Riese: Oh, wow.

Analyssa: Fascinating.

Drew: So, it’s interesting how you can either add a beard or shave your beard depending on-

Analyssa: A little gateway to wherever you want your destination to be.

Riese: Interesting.

Analyssa: So, back at the parents’ party, Max and Reese and Micah and Maribel are talking about how Reese and Max’s family came to be. They have kids from former marriages, their-

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: There’s a foster kid that they adopted and they’re talking about things you need to handle within yourself before you can become a parent. So, they ask-

Drew: One thing that I like is that Max says that-

Max: I was dating this gay cis guy and he turned out to be the worst.

Drew: And then Micah’s like-

Micah: Yeah. No, I dated one of those too.

Drew: I really enjoyed that moment.

Analyssa: That was fun.

Drew: Also, an acknowledgement of how awful… What’s his name in the original show?

Riese: Tom.

Drew: Tom. Fuck Tom.

Riese: I mean they named them Tom, Joe, Tim. That was it.

Drew: Then yes, then they’re talking about basically, it’s just that Maribel go to therapy.

Riese: Yeah, which I think is a really valid suggestion, and she gets so offended.

Drew: So offended.

Riese: Because they’re talking about how they use the nicknames that they use for themselves and they’re like because basically… I mean dad is just a sound or whatever. And then Maribel’s like, “Oh, that’s funny. We thought that dad was also just a made-up word. Something my mom made up,” which was funny. But then when Reese is like, “Oh, you need to work that out,” Maribel totally bristles that they said that.

Analyssa: And shuts down. You can see her be like—

Riese: Yeah, and is acting like it was a ridiculous thing for them to say and it really wasn’t.

Drew: It wasn’t. I mean, look, I get if you’re just meeting people to suggest… But they are asking for parenting advice.

Analyssa: This is my thing, later-

Drew: So, it’s like-

Riese: That’s intimate information.

Analyssa: We can, I guess, talk about it later, but again, it’s in all these mini-scenes. But later she’s like, “They were being so nosy.” And I was like, you guys came to their house to ask them questions about their lives as parents. This is what the conversation is going to be at some point.

Riese: Yeah, and if you want them to give you information, you have to be open to the advice they’re going to give, and also, to giving something of yourself as well. It’s not a one-way street.

Drew: Yeah, also this is a T4T couple who has four kids from different… What are you expecting to get here as far as vibes and energies? A suggestion that you go to therapy, you don’t think that’s-

Riese: Of course.

Drew: The only reason you wouldn’t get that is if they were explaining to you that therapy is actually problematic because not everyone can afford it, et cetera, et cetera. You’re getting some brand of that probably if you’re going to this parenting party. Come on now.

Analyssa: Back at the haunted house, I’m not wasting my transitions on these little, tiny things, but the professor has taken his mask off. As soon as that happened, I was like, “Oh no, they’re going to get seen.” They kiss, Angie’s roommate emerges from the haunted house, which was her paid acting gig because Drew’s a genius and is like, “Who is that?” And Angie is lying.

And then he’s like, “Ha-ha, is it weird that I’m your professor?” Which I was like, “Haven’t you guys been dating for a minute? This is the first time this has come up? That’s so bizarre.”

Riese: Yeah, of course, it’s weird.

Analyssa: Of course, it’s weird and why are you asking now weeks… it’s the end of October.

Riese: I mean last episode was September 22nd.

Analyssa: How do you know that?

Riese: Ivy texted Shane on September 22nd…

Drew: I love you.

Riese: … which would have been in the second episode.

Analyssa: This has been going on a month-ish, and it seems like they’re spending a-

Riese: Right, if school starts the beginning of September, she’s been in this class for a minute.

Analyssa: And it seems like they’ve been seeing each other. What a weird question to just be asking. Okay.

Drew: I’m glad you took all those notes because I just wrote, “Stay away from her.”

Analyssa: So, we’re back at the bar. There is a League of Their Own costume, which is very realistic. I was at a Halloween party where I saw League of Their Own costumes with my own eyes.

Drew: So many, so many.

Riese: So many.

Drew: The costume of the year.

Riese: Absolutely.

Analyssa: I liked that. That felt very like-

Riese: Yeah, yeah.

Analyssa: A queer show for queer people.

Riese: Right, would have been even better if maybe, I don’t know, Dani had been dressed as Greta.

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: Just an idea.

Drew: I think that’s too basic for Dani, no offense. If you’ve dressed as A League of Their Own I’m not calling you basic, I’m just… It was the common costume this year, and I just think that-

Riese: Right.

Drew: But she should have had-

Riese: Yeah, it should have been a more unique route with being a sexy cat.

Analyssa: Dani dressed as a cat.

Drew: No, it’s worse. No, no, no, I’m just saying that if we’re making notes here, I want Dani to be dressed as something very specific.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Also, if we wanted Roxy to be dressed in that sort of aesthetic, why not just be like Angelina Jolie from Foxfire?

Analyssa: Or they reference Bound. Why not be like-

Drew: Right, right.

Analyssa: Whatever, okay.

Drew: Also, how fun would it have been if they had gone as a friendship couple’s costume? A friendship couples costume as Bound–

Analyssa: And everyone was like-

Drew: And it was like, “What are you doing?” And like, “We’re old friends.” And then we’re making out as Bound. Oh, that would have been so fun, like oh.

Analyssa: And they do have a real… They have the vibe… Well, anyway.

Drew: Yeah, it would have been really fun.

Analyssa: So, yeah, Tess has called Shane or Shane has called Tess, doesn’t really matter. The point of the conversation is for them to fight, but Tess’s mom has a new nurse, which Tess is like, “I can’t just leave her here with this new nurse. It’s a stranger.”

Riese: Why not?

Drew: Also, if Tess’s mom was already living with them and sick, why would you get… If you don’t have time to take care of a second bar, let alone your first bar, why’d you want a second bar? I just don’t understand the second bar thing. Is it just to get the plumber in because the first bar could have had a toilet clog or something? The second bar makes no sense to me because it just causes-

Riese: I mean I accepted it might in the future lead to something, but if you are the kind of person who literally has to cancel your dinner date that night with your partner who you’re obviously feeling some disconnection with because the agency that you trust who has sent a nurse sends a substitution nurse. Which sometimes I assume they do because your nurse isn’t available every single fucking day.

If you’re the kind of person who can’t deal with that who then feels like she has to be there with her mom because there’s a new nurse, you are not the kind of person who should be buying a second bar. Because you obviously, for some reason, need to be involved in things that you don’t need to really be involved in.

Drew: Obviously, not to be this person, but it is proof that if your game plan to have a better-written character is tell the showrunner to make you cis, it still might not work out. I say that with love, but in the end, how much someone sees your humanity might not change just because of the character’s backstory.

Analyssa: Speaking of being seen, Sophie’s friends, Dani and Roxy, drag Sophie to the backroom to fix her costume.

Riese: And they destroy it.

Analyssa: And they destroy it. It’s no longer a costume. What is she dressed as now?

Riese: A girl with a sleeveless raincoat?

Analyssa: The thing is they could have just-

Drew: Kept the animals.

Analyssa: … ripped off the sleeves, unzipped it, and belted it in the middle with the little dogs and cats on it-

Riese: This is a crime.

Analyssa: And she would have been slutty raining cats and dogs. Perfect.

Drew: Yeah, I also was mad that we didn’t get a wide shot, where I was like… And I think it’s probably because I don’t know, so I’m making assumptions, but I’m assuming that it was like this plot point won’t work because it’s not that much sluttier. Because I am like, “Wait, the whole point was to slut her up,” and I’m getting a hot… I want to see.

Analyssa: Yeah, I wanted her to do a little twirl or a pose. Yeah, I agree.

Drew: Let’s see some titties.

Riese: I wanted to tear Roxy’s costume off and be like, this is not even a real costume, so why are you judging? Don’t. Glass houses throw stones.

Analyssa: Nailed that.

Riese: Thank you so much.

Drew: What is fun is that Sophie makes a comment about how Roxy’s into her. And then Dani, love this, this is what should be modeled for the community is just like-

Dani: Do you want to come home with me?

Drew: And then Roxy is like-

Roxy: To watch reruns of One Tree Hill or–

Drew: Which forces Dani to explicitly be like, “No.”

Riese: To bang.

Analyssa: To hook up.

Drew: And Roxy’s like, “I have one foot out the door.”

Riese: Yeah, thrilled. I’m so happy for them.

Drew: Speaking of people who are going to bang, Shane gets a text from Ivy and then Finley walks in on Shane taking a shot because Shane seems to have the weight of the world on her well-sculpted shoulders.

Riese: She sure does. I wonder who will relieve her of all of this stress.

Analyssa: It’s so hard having to have sex with Kehlani in the back alley, no.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: So, then later Mari wants to leave the parent-kid Halloween party because she is feeling interrogated and being nosy. And again, this is the Tess and Shane bar thing from a couple of episodes ago.

Riese: This is her idea.

Analyssa: Maribel wants Micah to want to have a kid, and now Micah is excited about this, and Mari’s like, “I want to leave.”

Riese: Yeah, bad dynamic.

Analyssa: But then she does watch Micah with a cute little dalmatian kid getting a cupcake.

Riese: In a way, I thought that was her thinking that’s what parenthood is. Little kids getting cupcakes and not stuff like making sure that she’s in a good place to do it. But Micah wants to stay, and I was proud of him for being like, “I’m staying, I have more questions to ask.”

Analyssa: Yeah, I have more questions to ask, which I think one of you may be able to answer. What movie are Alice-

Drew: Night of the Living Dead.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: No idea.

Analyssa: I said, “This is for Drew and not for me.”

Drew: And probably the reason they chose it is because I’m pretty sure that it’s been in the public domain for a while, so it’s a-

Riese: Yeah, they’re always watching black-and-white movies.

Drew: It’s a recognizable movie, it’s a classic, and it also didn’t cost them anything, so we love that. But the criterion collection did recently restore it, so because it was in the public domain, it was available in all these shitty bootleg versions. And now, the version that you can find in probably streaming is actually good, so that’s nice.

Analyssa: Cool. Well, glad for them and the quality of their watch party.

Riese: Unfortunately, Taylor has lost her eyeballs and I do not… I’m sorry, but Alice also wears glasses, so she also has contacts, so why hasn’t Taylor asked for contact solution?

Drew: Why didn’t you bring your glasses? If you’re like-

Analyssa: You can just Postmates contact solution. It’s a very easy-

Riese: Or just look in Alice’s cabinet for contact solution if for some reason you don’t want to ask, it’s there.

Analyssa: I would immediately be rifling through Alice’s bathroom cabinets even if I weren’t looking for contact solution.

Riese: Exactly, I’d be like, “I wonder if she has any Xanax.” Just kidding.

Analyssa: I’m in the fanciest… Presumably. The way that they show Taylor engaging with Alice’s space is like this is the fanciest home she’s been in. Start opening those drawers, baby. See what’s in there. See what’s going on.

Riese: Right. Also, the contacts glasses thing comes… I don’t wear glasses, but it comes up immediately with everyone I have ever dated who has contact glasses like, “Can you sleep over?” “Oh, I can’t because my contacts.” “Okay.” I used to have contact solution at home because people would always need it to sleep over.

Analyssa: Okay, another brag.

Drew: You’re like, “I hook up with a lot of people, and also, they’re smart, they wear glasses.”

Analyssa: “And also, I have perfect eyesight.”

Riese: Yes, I have perfect eyesight, so I don’t need it, but I like to help out my less fortunate friends.

Drew: That’s how I carry a tampon in my purse the whole time-

Riese: Right, exactly. You have to-

Drew: Someone might need one.

Riese: Yeah, you have to be prepared for these things. So, there’s no universe in which this wouldn’t have already come up.

Analyssa: Three days is so long. My eyes hurt-

Riese: Are your eyes bloodshot to death?

Analyssa: … after 12 hours, just a regular long day.

Drew: I’ve been dealing with eye problems for a couple of years now. The amount of eye doctor… I know the people who work at my eye doctor’s office better than I know some of my friends and I hate it. And I’m like, “Taylor’s going to get styes. It’s bad for you, you can’t. What is she doing?” Anyways.

Analyssa: Okay, so anyway, Taylor is clearly having a hard time with how perfect Alice’s life seems. It’s the same thing as when they met, and Taylor didn’t believe that Alice would actually want to go on a date with her. That’s where we’re at. And then there are noises outside, spooky.

Riese: And they’re scared. This whole thing was very fun I thought.

Drew: This was fun.

Analyssa: This was fun and silly.

Drew: I do think nothing’s scarier than deep insecurity or dating someone with deep insecurity, but the noises are a more fun type of scary.

Analyssa: This is also just how I feel every time I’m home alone. I hear anything and I’m like, “Oh my God, it’s over. It’s over.”

Drew: What I would say is that if someone’s living in your home or if someone is stealing your things, it’s probably not really at risk to you. You’re probably fine. Ivy shows up and she and Shane making out.

Riese: It’s hot.

Analyssa: She’s sitting in a very cool car in a very hot costume. She’s basically a Batman villain, and she also has brought Shane scissors, she bought her a gift, which okay.

Drew: It’s one of those things where it’s like, okay, so Shane gave you all these hair products, so that makes sense. But also, if I hooked up with someone and then they immediately got me a gift, I would have… That’s at least a yellow flag.

Riese: Maybe she was just trying to tell Shane she wanted to scissor.

Drew: Hmm, that’s a really good point.

Analyssa: I just wouldn’t go to the trouble of getting the scissors engraved with Shane’s initials.

Drew: That’s the part of it.

Analyssa: That’s the actual spooky part.

Riese: I get… all my scissors are engraved with Shane’s initials.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Sure, sure, sure.

Analyssa: They actually just make them like that.

Riese: They make them like that.

Analyssa: It’s so ironic that they make them like that.

Riese: Yeah, I mean it is her own line of clippers.

Drew: I mean it is SM. It is SM, so that’s a fun little-

Riese: Yeah, it is. See, exactly. Everyone’s having a great time. Is this when they start boning?

Analyssa: Yeah, they’re making out and they’re hooking up.

Riese: And when she’s looking at her ass? Beautiful.

Analyssa: And then Ivy has to go move her car seat. So, then Shane just is looking at her butt, which is pretty fun.

Riese: Yeah, it’s hot.

Drew: Oh, God. I just… she’s so hot.

Riese: Sorry, Tess, but it’s hot.

Analyssa: Yeah, she’s just so hot.

Drew: Speaking of people needing to grow and change, Alice calls 911. And just a reminder, you should never call 911. There is always an alternative thing to do. We don’t really have time to get into that, but we’ll put in the show notes some guides to that. Taylor, choosing one of those alternative things, goes outside to see what’s going on because it’s probably fine.

Riese: And it is.

Drew: And it is.

Riese: It’s just a spooky decoration. That’s what happens in spooky season.

Analyssa: That is what happens.

Riese: Your decorations can spook you, and Alice is like, “You’re my hero.” And it’s cute.

Drew: Yes, and then they decide to be serious enough to, I don’t know, I guess not leave your contacts in for three days.

Analyssa: I would never ever let someone else take my contact out of my eye.

Drew: No, that’s-

Analyssa: That’s the spookiest part of this whole little plot is that Alice goes, “Are you ready to let me take that contact out of your eye?” No. No.

Riese: But she says it’s in her brain, so probably Alice had to drill into the brain, and you can’t drill into your own brain. You have to do.

Analyssa: Yeah, if she had to enter from a space that’s not the eyeball, okay, maybe I would let someone else do that.

Riese: Yeah, with a scalpel and a knife, and some scissors with Shane’s name engraved in them.

Drew: Just from a hygiene standpoint, Taylor’s not good with eye hygiene. Optical hygiene.

Analyssa: Yeah, obviously, someone else’s fingers in your eye-

Riese: Taylor needs a new eye doctor to just, a come-to-Jesus moment with her eye doctor. I’m worried.

Analyssa: Oh, speaking of caring for others, Tess is with her mom and is trying to get her mom to go to the bathroom. Tess’s mom is really fighting her and basically ends up saying at one point, “I don’t want to be your patient anymore.” She’s asking for the new nurse, even though Tess is like, “I can do it.”

Riese: Which she obviously can’t.

Analyssa: Which she can’t really, and Tess’s mom is like, “I want to be in a home. I don’t want to be taken care of here anymore.” All this is very sad and made me more annoyed that Tess was mean for no reason earlier in the episode because I just wanted to be sad that she’s having a sad time with her mom and be understanding of, “Oh yeah, this has taken up a lot of your life. This is a huge drain on your situation.” But because she was just snappy earlier, I’m like, “Well…” I don’t know, it’s just more conflicting information.

Riese: I think she’s allowed to be frustrated, and obviously, this is a devastating experience for her to be having, and I want to acknowledge that. But at the same time, I think here I’m just like, “This isn’t even what your man wants, so what are you doing? This man is here, she doesn’t want you. Why are you doing…” It feels like at this point it’s more about something within Tess than it is about figuring out what her mom actually needs and wants.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: What is all this for?

Drew: Which if explored is interesting, just not on my gay hookup show. It just is this thing where it’s like the first season Tess was relapsing. This season she’s dealing with her sick mom in this very heavy, complicated way and being cheated on, which she was cheated on in the first season too. So, second season we had some fun poker stuff I think, but-

Riese: And she dated Cherie Jaffe for 24 hours and-

Analyssa: Oh, yeah.

Drew: Oh, yeah. Oh, God. I just… Tess deserves better, and by that, I mean Jamie.

Analyssa: So, the next thing that happens is at the bar, Sophie sneaks up on Finley, and then-

Riese: It’s cute at first.

Analyssa: It is sweet at first. Finley says, “By the way, totally talked to Shane, she says everything is totally fine,” which absolutely didn’t happen.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: She mentioned Shane’s shot, and Shane was like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.”

Drew: Also, is Finley just running this bar by herself now?

Analyssa: Basically.

Riese: Yeah, I have no… The bar is chaos. They need one of those little delivery robots in the bar. They’re probably being run by delivery robots.

Drew: But then Finley tells Sophie that she has a pattern of cheating, which we get more context that Sophie… And maybe we already knew this, that Sophie cheated before Dani.

Riese: Yeah, we knew that.

Drew: Okay, but it still is like-

Riese: They were on a break.

Drew: They were on a break. Finley was the cheated… So, it’d be one thing if Finley was like, “That’s how our relationship started.” Instead of being like, “And then when I was gone for a year, you hooked up with someone else.”

Riese: “After I explicitly told you it was fine to do it.” They were on a break. I don’t know, I feel like they’re trying to do something here where they’re trying to parallel Shane’s situation to Sophie’s, but it’s not working because it doesn’t make sense. And also, Finley doesn’t seem to know anything about Shane suddenly, so I have no idea what they’re doing here, and I don’t care for it. But I do feel like it is showing at least that Finley’s trying to work through her feelings instead of just numbing them.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: We are seeing two adults try to talk through issues, and that is nice, I guess.

Drew: Yeah, and then someone hits on Sophie, and Sophie says, “No.”

Riese: “I have a girlfriend.”

Analyssa: Girlfriend.

Riese: So, now we know Sophie’s a changed woman, and she’s not going to cheat.

Drew: Wow, incredible.

Riese: But of course, she’s not going to cheat openly. Anyway, but they were cute for one second before they started fighting and I really enjoyed that because I love them still so much.

Analyssa: Me too. Yeah, I’m hopeful that like you just said, that the fights of this season are leading towards them just showing out and being cute together and having a good time.

Drew: We then go to people making different decisions, which is Shane and Ivy fucking to a fun cover of “Psychokiller” by the Talking Heads.

Riese: The music was so intense.

Drew: So, it was a real intense choice, but into it. It’s hot, I’m going to say it.

Analyssa: So hot.

Drew: I’m going to be brave and say it’s hot. They’re making out, Shane puts her fingers in-

Analyssa: Fingers in the mouth while kissing.

Drew: It’s always going to get me. And then Kehlani does a little Titanic, which means putting her hand on this fogged-up glass-

Riese: It means causing a ship to hit an iceberg and then sink.

Drew: Which metaphorically you could argue.

Analyssa: And then Finley taking out the trash sees that this is Shane and Ivy, dun dun dun.

Drew: Which once again, why is Finley on her high horse?

Riese: But also, it’s Finley in costume. It just makes it seem more dramatic because it’s like she’s in this brooding little costume like-

Analyssa: Yeah, and the car is really far away. It’s very noiry, it’s like clouds are outside because they’re not. It’s pretty funny. And then back at the little party, Micah and Max have a conversation. Micah’s just like, “It’s so cool.” I mean some of the stuff that you said earlier but saying it’s so cool to talk to someone who is trans about parenting and to see this life that you guys have built.

There’s just a real… I don’t know, it was very sweet, and they decide to go get drinks to talk about it more because Micah has a bunch more questions. And then Micah starts to help clean up when Max leaves the kitchen. I thought it was so sweet.

Drew: That’s a really nice… I mean I also really liked the moment when Max is like, “It’s special because I get to be the one to tell you how great it’s going to be.” And to just think about how alone and scared Max was when pregnant and how it seemed doomed. And to now be like Max has four kids and also gets to pass along to this new generation of being like, “This is going to be great.”

Analyssa: Queer parenting is possible and you’re going to really love it if that’s what you want.

Drew: It’s really meaningful. It’s really nice.

Analyssa: Well, and from that tender moment, we cut back to Finley and Shane having a conversation.

Riese: I hated this scene.

Drew: It’s so bad, I don’t know.

Riese: Shane did not cheat on Finley.

Drew: It’s wild.

Analyssa: It’s bizarre.

Riese: It is so wild. I feel like they’re trying to push along Shane feeling guilty, but they’re also doing it at the expense of Finley has been in AA for a year now, and it feels like one of the things that is a big part of that is realizing that all people are flawed, that you should not be judging others, you should be focusing on yourself.

And it seems like if Finley really… This could be an opportunity for Finley to live those values and be like, “Yes, this person is also damaged, and this person is also fucking up because we all do. No one is perfect.” Don’t idealize people. I feel like it just doesn’t track.

Drew: Yeah, something that would be interesting to me is, okay, so let’s say Finley has Shane on this pedestal. She realizes, okay, Shane’s human and has… Maybe comforts Shane or becomes the mentor. Was the mentee, becomes more the mentor, and then that leads her to feeling more empathy for Sophie to be like, “We’re all people, we’re all-”

Riese: Right, exactly.

Drew: There’s a way to do it where you’re tweaking slightly things and it’s so much better and it takes so little tweaking.

Analyssa: Right, because clearly, this isn’t really about Shane at all.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: It’s a thing about Sophie and Finley’s relationship and what it means that Finley believes in Shane who’s going to cheat. And if she chooses to believe in Sophie, does that mean something? And it’s like, yes, part of AA is realizing all people are flawed, but also, part of AA is realizing all people are very different. Every situation is very different, and Shane isn’t Sophie, Sophie isn’t Shane. They’re different people. And Finley doesn’t have a relationship with Shane. Finley’s not dating Shane, so reacting in that way, I just-

Drew: We probably all have had friends who have been cheating on someone and have talked to us about it, and it is an uncomfortable position to be in. Depending on the situation, you might have various feelings about it, but usually, I don’t know, it’s just so weird to take it so personally.

Riese: Yeah, you shouldn’t be idolizing… Shane would be the first person to be like, “Don’t idolize me. Don’t idolize my relationship. Never.” And the other thing about it is that there’s nothing for Shane to do in this scene. Shane doesn’t even say anything.

Drew: No, she’s just like, “Well-”

Riese: She’s there trying to react, but it’s like I don’t think this scene was necessary. I think if they wanted to move Shane forward, they could have just with what happens with Max later. And I don’t really see how this at all parallels to Sophie. I feel like if they weren’t going to make this an opportunity to have Finley show that she’s grown and be like, “Hey, man, what’s going on? How are you?” Flipping that script, then why even have this at all? It just seems so… I can’t imagine any universe in which someone would react like this.

Drew: No. Going from a scene I hated to a scene I loved, Dani and Roxy are making out, it’s very hot, and then Roxy sits on Gigi’s earring and-

Riese: Remember when she lost the earring before and I was like, “Don’t forget that, guys.”

Drew: Now, that’s some good writing. And then Dani starts to cry and then Roxy hugs her and it just feels very much like, “This is queer friendship.” I just really liked this scene.

Riese: Yeah, I loved it. I loved it.

Analyssa: I did too. I really like them together. It was really fun.

Drew: Yeah, me too.

Riese: Yeah, it was a fun dynamic.

Drew: Alice puts her mouthguard on.

Analyssa: Oh yeah, this is a big step in a relationship. I can remember basically every time a partner of mine has been like, “Okay, tonight’s the night that I have to wear my mouthguard. We’ve gone long enough that I can’t no longer wear my mouthguard.”

Drew: It is the thing of it’s whatever your things are that are-

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, I wish the other thing she said had been some more-

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: I’m like you wear earplugs because your neighbor is loud. What does that have to do with you?

Analyssa: Earplugs for sleep is not a flaw.

Riese: No, uh-uh. And then Taylor offhandedly is like, “I don’t have a driver’s license.” “Okay.”

Drew: Yeah, those aren’t the same types of things. It’s like the ways in which you’re gross and you’re whatever, that’s-

Riese: Right. I wanted her to be like, “I get really gassy after I have dairy,” or something.

Analyssa: Right, the Mean Girls thing where she’s like, “I have really bad breath in the morning.” That kind of thing.

Riese: Yeah, or like, “I have psoriasis, and my scalp flakes off in my sleep.” I don’t know, man, something. Queer people all have things.

Drew: Bodies are gross.

Riese: Bodies are disgusting.

Analyssa: Yeah, bodies are so nasty.

Riese: They are constantly malfunctioning. But anyway, I still love these two and I’m shipping it.

Drew: Yeah, me too.

Riese: And they’re really cute together. Also, they’re both really good actors, and so, the scene sings.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yeah, they’re really charming. It’s very sparkly when they’re going.

Drew: Ivy texts Shane that she’s out front, but then the place that Max and Mike have gone to for drinks is Dana’s, and so, there’s a little interaction between Max and Shane. They’re trying to find a way to both have it move Shane’s storyline forward as far as Max being like, “Oh, he’s settled down and he’s still being Shane,” and these sorts of things.

But there’s also a moment where Shane apologizes to Max for the way that they all treated Max back in the day, and it obviously feels like an apology to, yes, the character of Max, but also to Daniel, and also to trans people in general maybe. To me, the bigger apology is the moment earlier when Max says to Micah, “I’m so excited to get to tell you how special this is going to be,” or whatever that line was. That to me is the apology.

This is like, okay, it is what it is, but is also there is a difference between a nonbinary writer and a nonbinary director putting this line in this fictional character’s mouth versus an actual atonement from people involved in the original series who maybe were not supportive or who created that storyline.

And it’s tricky because of the way that the internet works, queer community works. It is easier to not own up to things. We don’t know who on that set was most at fault for some of these things, and by we, I mean the general public. I know. But it’s one of those things where if an actor, a writer, a director, show creator named Ilene Chaiken, or whatever were to actually reckon with that original storyline in a more public way, I think that would be more meaningful than a fictional character once again being written by a nonbinary person, but it’s still nice. It’s not nothing.

Riese: Yeah, it’s nice that… I liked that Max was able to be… Because on the one hand, I was like, “You’re forgiving them very quickly.” But it also wasn’t really forgiveness so much as it was, “You know what? Well, I’m thriving, I have so much joy in my life and all of your bullshit…” And it’s interesting because Shane was actually the only one of anyone who was actually nice to Max and didn’t misgender him and all of these things. So, I guess, of course, it’s Shane who’s apologizing on everybody’s behalf.

Drew: Well, right, that’s what-

Riese: I mean Bette owes them a pretty significant apology.

Drew: I mean it would have been more interesting to me if Shane had apologized and Max had been like, “You’re the only one who looked out for me.” And then if Shane was like, “Me not being awful is not the same as me looking out for you.”

Riese: Right, because also I should have stood up for you more with my friends and made them-

Analyssa: There was more that I could have done if you… Even you saying that I was on your side, I really wasn’t as much as I could have been, and I want to apologize for that even.

Riese: Right, yeah.

Drew: A little bit more specificity, but it is what it is, and it is just this meta moment that’s meant to be whatever.

Riese: Yeah, and I’m really glad that they did this. I felt like probably because of what’s happened, Daniel probably had some input on what happened.

Drew: I have an interview that maybe is coming out the day this podcast comes out. A follow-up interview with Daniel where we talk about the episode.

Analyssa: Oh, wow.

Drew: So, check that out.

Analyssa: Okay, a little plot-

Riese: I’m really excited for that.

Analyssa: But I really did like the thing you just pointed out, which is like Max being like, “This is not my life anymore. I really don’t care.” It’s not the tone that it’s set in, but it’s like, “I found a whole other world and life.” I don’t know, I think that just feels really nice that there is so much joy.

Honestly, maybe this sounds shitty, but that juxtaposed with the fact that Shane is still making the same mistakes and has the same haircut. But just that this character, you know what I mean? There’s an interesting character… You always think, “I wish I could tell my worst friends how good I’m doing and see that they’re doing bad.” That’s not Max’s tone either, but it was a cool thing to see.

Riese: Yeah, because he did have certain values that he was living by that have led him to having a life that is maybe not as economically bountiful as these people but is filled with love and joy and happiness, and that is really sweet. And then we transition into a piece that I found absolutely maddening.

Drew: Wait.

Analyssa: Which was?

Riese: So, Micah comes back and is like, “Oh, you know Shane,” right?

Drew: Yeah. Yeah, but first, I want to say that Shane does say that Max can drink for free at the bar, which I think all trans people should get to drink for free at lesbian bars. That feels like a real-

Riese: Yeah, I think you’re right.

Drew: I don’t know. I mean not that lesbian bars are thriving financially. They honestly need our dollars.

Riese: Then Micah comes and he’s like, “Oh my God, you know Shane.” And it’s like, “Yeah, small world.” And then Micah’s like, “I still have some questions.” And then the question that he asks-

Micah: So, with the diapers, how do you know when to change them? Just when they smell or-

Riese: It’s just like when you’re going to have someone say something in a show, why not have them say something meaningful or important?

Analyssa: Interesting.

Riese: Interesting. How do you know when to change a dirty diaper? When it’s dirty! That is easy to Google. I want to know the specific questions you have about being a trans parent because your whole storyline has to be about being trans, but isn’t that what this conversation is?

Drew: Yes, yes.

Analyssa: Or even just about parenting generally like how does it feel to-

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: I don’t know, how do you deal with being responsible for so many people or how do you whatever? Do you get to go out anymore? What’s that look like?

Riese: Yeah, is it normal that Reese would be cool with you just going out on a whim? Anything, anything. Why write a line that means nothing that is a complete throwaway that’s useless? That doesn’t even make sense because earlier Micah was like, “I can’t google these questions.” That’s a question you can google, it’s also common sense.

Analyssa: Or ask literally anyone.

Riese: Ask anyone.

Analyssa: It’s not that Micah doesn’t know any parents.

Riese: Ask Shane, ask Finley.

Analyssa: It’s just that Micah doesn’t know trans or queer parents.

Riese: I’m sure he’s babysat. We’ve all babysat, everyone babysits.

Drew: Yeah, it did make me laugh that the next question was what if the kid is weird?

Analyssa: That’s actually a better question.

Riese: Yeah, and it reveals something about Micah’s personality then.

Analyssa: And what he’s worried about, you know what I mean? That’s actually interesting.

Drew: Okay, so then Maribel gets home and there’s a really nice sister moment between Sophie and Mari where they talk about their dad. And it’s a good moment.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s cute. I do want to pick a fight about the offhand comment about sweet tarts because that’s candy, that’s my favorite candy.

Drew: I do know that about you.

Riese: I love sweet tarts.

Analyssa: I often have just a box of sweet tarts in my passenger seat. There’s always candy.

Drew: You like the big ones, right?

Analyssa: Yeah, I do.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Analyssa: Anyway.

Drew: Then Angie confesses to her roommate that she’s hooking up with her professor, which it did feel realistic to me that her roommate is like, “Ooh,” and not like, “Um.”

Analyssa: Yeah, totally.

Drew: My question is that, I guess… Again, one of the things I really wanted was them to explore what’s different with Gen Z. So, it would be interesting if the roommate had been like, “That’s not good.”

Riese: “That’s fucked up,” right.

Drew: I do think that there are plenty of 18-year-old college freshmen who have been aware of the world enough the past nine years that they’re like, “Oh, actually, power dynamics. Actually, I read an infograph on…” or, “I saw a TikTok about…” Whatever. I sound very old right now, but-

Riese: No, but they know this stuff. Gen Z knows this stuff.

Drew: Yeah, I did like that there was an Olivia Rodrigo poster on the wall [inaudible 00:57:34]. I did enjoy that. And then we go back to Dani and Roxy, and Dani’s like, “Why won’t you stay in LA?” And Roxy’s like-

Roxy: Because you’re not ready to be my wife yet.
Dani: Okay, really though.
Roxy: No, I’m being real. Call me when that heart heals, I’ll come running.

Analyssa: I would fold immediately. I’d be like, “Oh, you want to do this? Great. Who is my ex-girlfriend.” Even though my ex-girlfriend is Gigi, I’m like, “Okay, let’s explore this right now.”

Drew: It was really… I don’t know. I hope Roxy comes back.

Riese: Yeah, I do think that the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else, even though I do think Dani was going to be the top in this situation. I think Roxy’s power bottom.

Analyssa: And then they put on a song that they both know and have a little dance to and it’s very cute.

Drew: Yeah, that’s great.

Riese: I love it when young people dance in large, oversized cardigans. I’m being serious.

Drew: So, then Finley gets home and tells Sophie that she was right, and Finley basically is like, “I want to trust you, but I’m struggling.”

Riese: Yeah, and says she can’t stop thinking about it and maybe she just needs to find out what happened. And even though that’s not something I personally can relate to, I do feel like it’s a common experience where people are just like they tell these stories in their head, and maybe knowing the truth would help. So, that seems promising for them, and eventually, they’ll have a nice time, and we could see my favorite ship sail the seven seas like a cruise where no one gets sick but has a lot of food and enjoys themselves in the pool.

Drew: That’s nice. We learn why Micah didn’t want to wear the avocado costume because he had the pit which gave him a pregnant belly. Why wouldn’t Maribel be wearing the-

Riese: The pit, yeah.

Drew: I think I understand why this… Obviously, every trans person’s different, but based on what we know about Micah, I understand why he wouldn’t want to go to this parenting thing with a belly. I was so confused by that. Anyways, Maribel apologizes for being difficult-

Riese: Again.

Drew: … and Micah’s like, “It should be fun,” which is a nice lesson to take from Max. Especially because Micah’s such an anxious Andy over here. It’s nice to have-

Riese: Those anxious Andys.

Drew: And so, have him be the one to be like, “This should be fun.”

Riese: Yeah, yeah, because that’s what Max told him.

Drew: Oh, boy. Kehlani looks so hot.

Riese: Devastatingly hot.

Drew: And Shane’s like, “We have to end this.” And Kehlani also, which this is so hot, is so not other people of Shane’s past who have been needy and like, “No, don’t break up with me. I’m going to burn your place down,” whatever.

Analyssa: She’s just like, “All right.”

Drew: It’s like, “Let’s call this an awakening for both of us.” And I’m like, “Now, I want you even more.”

Riese: Right. I also like that Shane’s actually speaking to her about this and not just blowing her off or whatever. I know that we’re seeing Shane do the same things over and over again, but there are these tiny little things that are being done differently that I think show some growth or whatever. Did you guys, when I was watching it and I was like, “Oh my God, is that Tess in the background?” Were we supposed to notice that?

Analyssa: I think so. It’s pretty… She has a distinct face, I know what she looks like, you know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah. Well, so Tess is behind her, says-

Tess: Fuck you, Shane.

Drew: Go to credits.

Analyssa: Boom.

Riese: Tess’s boobs looked great though.

Drew: So, who’s winning really?

Riese: It’s also like there’s this much water in the glass. I’m glad that at least Tess found out immediately. I was like you don’t want to drag out an extended whatever.

Drew: I do think that if I saw… I’m just different, it’s fine. People are allowed to have their relationships, the monogamy that they have. I’m just like if I saw my partner talking to Kehlani, I just would be like, “Hey, who’s that?”

Analyssa: What’s going on there?

Drew: And if Shane was like, “Nobody,” I’d be like, “It doesn’t have to be nobody.”

Riese: Yeah, I would be like, “Why didn’t you ask them for a threesome?” I would be really hurt for that reason.

Analyssa: The first thing you do is call me.

Riese: Yeah, yeah, bring me in on this deal, you know what I mean? Cc me.

Analyssa: Yeah, the rudest part-

Drew: This threesome can be our third baby.

Riese: Yeah, or bcc me, I don’t care.

Analyssa: A really big rude part about this is you save Kehlani only for yourself?

Riese: Right, yeah, exactly. It’s fucked up. Anyway, I hope Victor’s doing a good job, and that’s the episode.

Drew: Did we like this episode?

Riese: I loved so much of it, and I also hated so much of it. Yeah.

Drew: Mm-hmm. Yep, mm-hmm. That is also how I feel. I do think that I’m so glad that Daniel was brought back.

Riese: Absolutely.

Drew: It’s really lovely. I’m also glad that they brought Daniel back on their own terms, which you’ll read about in this interview, but just that it was a collaboration and that feels very special. And that there was a nonbinary director and nonbinary writer is really cool.

Yeah, I mean I think my feelings about Gen Q and my feelings about the original series are often aligned, which is like there is so much talent in these rooms and so much care in some ways. And so, then it’s very frustrating when it feels like the overall machine is just faulty. And that is frustrating. It’s also part of most television. I think it’s really hard to make television. But yeah, I don’t know. It was definitely a best of times worst of times situation for me of episodes.

Riese: Yeah, I agree. This was the first episode where there was something that annoyed me to the point of distraction where I just felt… Because I’ve been trying really to take the characters, the stories on their own terms, and try to figure out how to make them work. But for some reason, that scene with Finley getting mad at Shane just pushed me over the edge.

Drew: It’s just it also could have been like, “I thought you’d changed.” There’s just slight things that even if you want to do this thing of just things that acknowledge somewhat the universe, somewhat… I think it’s just frustrating because, I don’t know, it makes me feel like Showtime’s not giving them enough money to have enough time in the writer’s room. It’s like these little things where it’s like all the moving pieces.

Riese: Yeah, but I’ve been thinking about that because I’ve been thinking, the work we publish every day isn’t perfect. There are points, I imagine, where they’re like, “We’re out of time to write this episode, so we’re just going to have to let this shitty scene be shitty.” It’s just for some reason because it’s filmed and involves so many people getting it to the final product, you’re just like, “How? How?”

Drew: I mean and that also sometimes is how is that, okay, so you write a scene, it’s good. Then it goes through the showrunner pass, and the execs, all these things. You know about this. Not that you would ever be an exec who would make something worse, but sometimes it happens.

Analyssa: Yeah, or you film it and the one line that would have scaffolded the whole thing gets dropped or you don’t have good coverage on that-

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: There are so many points in the process where it can break down that it’s hard to say why some of these things don’t feel internally consistent, but it is really frustrating to be like the fun stuff all really hit for me.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely.

Analyssa: Anytime it got into the fighting or the more drama stuff, I was like, “I just am not quite there.” So, I don’t know, I thought this was really fun. I loved the Halloween of it all.

Riese: Yep, I loved Alice and Taylor’s little spooky scary moments.

Drew: And I hope we see Roxy again.

Riese: I hope so too.

Analyssa: I do too.

Lauren Klein: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com.
Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by Jax Ko. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein.
You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two As and on Twitter @analoca_ with one A and underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle, and of course, the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this ep, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Riese: One, two, three.

Drew: Quip.

Analyssa: Quippy.

Riese: Quarry.

Analyssa: What’d you say?

Riese: Quarry.

Analyssa: Oh.

Riese: What’s that you may ask?

Drew: A query?

Analyssa: No, like a rock quarry.

Riese: Like the rock quarry, yeah, because that’s where I wanted to jump into when Angie was hooking up with her teacher.

Drew: I see. We both said quippy or quip. Wow.

Analyssa: Yeah, I said quippy, and Drew said quip.

Drew: How fun.

Riese: Like the toothbrush?

Drew: I don’t know about this toothbrush.

Riese: Well, I do because for some reason they won’t stop texting me. I’ve never owned a Quip, or maybe it’s called something else.

Analyssa: No, I think they’re called Quips. Quippy, Quip-

Riese: Yeah, every time I’m like block this caller, black this caller. I’m like, “How did you get my number? I don’t know, I’ve never used your toothbrush. Leave me alone. Leave me alone, I have four toothbrushes.”

Analyssa: Are those the wooden toothbrushes?

Riese: I don’t know what they are, but they need to leave me the fuck alone.

Drew: Anyways, I thought that there were some good quips this episode.

Analyssa: Yeah, I was going to say. I love the show when it’s quippy and bouncy.

Drew: Wow. Well, we did it.

Riese: We did it.

Drew: And we’re only 15 minutes late.

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Drew: See you next time.

Riese: See you next time.

Analyssa: Bye.

Riese: Stay sweet. See you in December.

Drew: Happy Halloween

Riese: Happy Halloween.

Analyssa: Happy Halloween in December.

“To L And Back: Generation Q Edition” Podcast Episode 303: Quiz Show

Winter has arrived in Los Angeles this week, bringing a chill in the air, some light rain, and something totally new: a Bette-Porter-free episode of The L Word! That’s right, this week, Bette and Tina are presumably off in Toronto frolicking and kissing and looking at art. We wouldn’t know, we don’t see them once!

But luckily, we have enough to keep up with on this episode. It’s The Aloce Show’s 100th episode, so of course Alice is doing a dating game to find her The One (Hundredth). All sorts of shenanigans take place on the set of the Aloce Show this week, from breakups to hook-ups and make-ups and makeovers! Also, that boy Angie kissed last week? Actually a grown man, and also her teacher. Yikes! Let’s get to it, shall we?

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SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s recap for Episode 303 “Quiz Show”
+ In French Michelle is a Man’s Name, the short film by this episode’s director, Em Weinstein
+ Unfortunately, there was only one queer season of Are You the One, but you can relive the madness with us
+ The Chasing Amy piece we published from Shana, and the Buzzfeed Chasing Amy anniversary piece
+ When Riese mentioned United States of Tara, I wondered if Joey Lauren Adams had made the “straight actresses who’ve played queer”
list and she has!
+ Where would Finley fit into this White Lotus scenario Drew wrote about?
+ It doesn’t appear we’ve put together a list of best karaoke songs for queer gals: what is yours? In the meantime, here’s what The L Word cast would sing, thank you Kayla!
+ Stephanie Allyne took a break from hilarious lesbian chaos over on Reboot to appear in this episode!
+ Heather wrote more insightfully about Ellen’s on-set unkindness and friendship with George Bush than my silly joke!
+ Bette has an affair with a student in season four of the original run, starting in episode 402. The student is none other than Arizona Robbins, Jessica Capshaw (okay fine, NADIA)
+ According to a not-super-legit website I found, I was wrong and there’s only 5 cities named Normal in the United States, and only 6 in the world! We regret the error.
+ For the record, this is how I feel about driving friends to the airport:

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Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is-

Everyone: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Analyssa: Nice.

Drew: That went great.

Analyssa: Yeah. Congrats to us. Honestly, we’re coming in with such a frazzled energy. I didn’t have high hopes for that.

Drew: A real intense energy for honestly a pretty chaotic episode. So not the worst pairing. How are you both doing?

Riese: It’s been a long day.

Analyssa: Yeah, A long day for everyone. Right?

Drew: It really has been.

Riese: We’re recording this early because Drew has to catch a red eye, but the first episode of the podcast came out today.

Analyssa: Oh yeah.

Drew: Oh yeah. That’s true.

Riese: You posted about it!

Drew: I know I did. But that feels like yesterday…

Riese: It’s just been a long day.

Analyssa: That was exciting though.

Riese: Have they ever had an episode called Long Day?

Drew: No. They should.

Riese: They had Long Day’s Journey into Night.

Analyssa: I was going to say, didn’t they do Long Day’s Journey into Night?

Riese: They should do Long Johns and it should be one where everyone wears like little, you know what I mean? Everyone in a Henley. Do you know how cute that would be?

Analyssa: I like that when you suggest an episode title, you’re like, it’s directly going to affect the plot. When you suggested Quarterback, it’s like, they will be playing football.

Riese: Yeah. I’m literal.

Drew: And that’s rarely how The L Word actually works. So this episode is called Quiz Show, and it is written by Melody Derloshon, who’s been writing on Gen Q since the beginning. And it’s directed by Em Weinstein, who actually wrote on A League of Their Own and also directed this short film that I highly recommend called In France Michelle is a Man’s Name. I think this is maybe their first episodic credit. Let me confirm that. Yeah, I think so.

Analyssa: That’s cool.

Drew: That’s super great. I love that.

Riese: Yeah. Well, they did a great job.

Analyssa: I love when there’s a first time director on something or writer.

Drew: Yeah. And trans!

Riese: That’s really cool. What’s interesting about this episode is that Quiz Show is also the name of a film.

Drew: Yes, it is.

Riese: And I love that film. And this was not that film, this was a TV show about lesbians and bisexuals and otherwise identified people.

Analyssa: I’ve never seen that movie or heard of it.

Drew: I have heard of it, but I haven’t seen it.

Riese: Well, I love it. I saw in the theaters when you guys were probably sitting in your sandbox building castles. I was at the movies, I was at the cinema.

Drew: I love that.

Riese: Watching Quiz Show and thinking, “Wow,” because I love a movie based on a true story.

Drew: I do know this. Well, there’s a lot to get into with this episode. So should we start?

Analyssa: Yeah, let’s do it.

Drew: When the episode started, I went, “Oh my God, I forgot about the accident.”

Analyssa: The crash also looked so much longer in the saga sell than it did when I watched the episode. I was like, “Oh my gosh, that was brutal.” Luckily though, Gigi has survived.

Drew: Yes. We learned that right away.

Analyssa: And is pretty banged up. But we come in, it’s hazy, she’s opening her eyes and the EMT is like, “You’re pretty banged up, but you’re probably fine.” And Nat is in the ambulance.

Drew: Then we learn she’s fine physically maybe, but not emotionally. Because real quick, a slight nudge from the paramedic leads to a little post-trauma kissing, which is Nat kisses Gigi. Which feels like, I mean…

Riese: It’s like they press lips.

Drew: It’s not like a make out.

Analyssa: They sort of just touch lips.

Riese: And then they touch lips more.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: This is what I think. I think that if you have just experienced something traumatic, then if you want to kiss your ex-wife, I guess I get it, you, whatever. But it’s strange to me to be the one who’s arriving on the scene and your ex-wife’s bloody head and fully in a relationship that supposedly is serious, because they were together for a while, before we dropped in here a year later. To kiss her feels not great.

Riese: You know, I was thinking of the song “Defying Gravity.”

Drew: Of course.

Riese: And how you can do that? That’s what she should have done, because she instead let gravity take her forward into Gigi’s mouth. And she could’ve defied it.

Analyssa: She could’ve chosen to defy gravity.

Riese: Wanting to feel unlimited.

Drew: I also think that you are choosing to turn a slight push into a, I’m falling on top and kissing.

Analyssa: Well, because it’s not a very clumsy fall. She’s not bobbling. She’s like, “My lips are going to go right into yours.” I do think this is the mother of her children, someone who she spent a long time with, and something traumatic has happened to her. You might be overwhelmed by that.

Drew: Yeah, I guess.

Analyssa: Trauma.

Drew: For sure.

Riese: Or overwhelmed by the potential… drama.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: Speaking of, who should arrive? But luckily, thank God, because my least favorite thing that ever happens in movies and TV shows is when somebody sees someone kiss someone else and then makes a decision based on that and does not tell them. Dani is too wrapped up in whatever to even notice what just happened. And she’s like, “Oh, I’m here now. Nat can go.”

Analyssa: And there’s actually a couple of close calls of that in this episode. I was like, “Ugh.” And then it never happened. But I was going to say, speaking of overwhelmed, I was by Dani’s arms in this scene. They look amazing.

Riese: Wow.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s a big ep for good arms.

Analyssa: Big ep for good arms. Yes.

Drew: A big arms episode.

Riese: Yeah. They should have called it “Quarms.”

Analyssa: And then of course Dani and Nat have to have a conversation about Nat saying, “I’m Gigi’s emergency contact.” It was played as a big reveal to Dani, but Nat is the one who called.

Riese: I don’t think it was.

Drew: I do think that, again, it makes sense to me that the mother of… My frustration throughout this whole episode that we will get to is just that there was a little bit of rationality last episode when Bette was like, “Dani, you’re overreacting.” And then this whole episode was like, “She wasn’t.” Actually, the fact that she’s not the emergency contact, in my head, I go, “That makes sense. The mother of your children is your emergency contact. You’ve known her for years and you have a good friendship, great. But the person who you’ve been dating for a year and a half? I get not switching it over yet.”

Analyssa: Yeah. Louis is not my emergency contact and he’s mad at me about it every day. Not in a serious way.

Riese: No, I had my ex-fiance, two years after we broke up, text me and be like, “Hey, I got a really alarming phone call from your dentist.” And I was like, “Wow.”

Analyssa: Oops.

Riese: Oops.

Drew: Yeah, one of my two best friends is my emergency contact. I mean for my flight tonight that’s going to Toronto where my girlfriend lives, I did put her down.

Analyssa: Yeah. Amy’s my emergency contact, but that’s because she has her phone on her usually.

Riese: I put Gretchen as my emergency contact. I was like, obviously my ex can no longer be my emergency contact. So I started putting Gretchen in as my emergency contact two years before we started dating.

Drew: Aw that’s nice.

Analyssa: Anyway, Dani’s not Gigi’s emergency contact, but she does get to ride in the ambulance. The ambulance is not headed to one place, I’ll tell you, which is the Paramount lot, which is where The Aloce Show films.

Drew: It’s where they have their hundredth episode.

Analyssa: And they’re doing their hundredth episode.

Riese: It’s exciting. I love the colors and the costumes and everything. I just love the images of the episode.

Drew: Yeah, it is fun.

Analyssa: It is very fun.

Drew: They’re doing a little dating game for Alice, because she’s looking for the one and as she jokes, where else to do that than on national television?

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: Yeah. Love is Blind.

Analyssa: I’ve done it on Twitter.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: I’ve done it on dating apps.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: You should do it on TV.

Analyssa: I should do it on TV.

Drew: I will say that I am sad that in 2019 there weren’t enough reality shows for me to go on a reality dating show. I do think that I would be great on a reality dating show, and I’m sad that that’s just not where the reality dating world is except for the one season of Are You the One? But even that, they wouldn’t have put me on that.

Riese: I would rather marry a baked potato than go on a reality dating show.

Analyssa: A baked potato specifically.

Drew: Well, Alice’s three things that she doesn’t want is not a baked potato.

Sophie: No cults, no mixed martial arts, and no improvisers of any kind.
Alice: Yeah. That last one’s very important.

Riese: So LA.

Drew: Extremely LA and it makes sense.

Riese: I’m sure she said some bad run-ins. But it’s also funny because Kate Moenning does MMA and Stephanie Allynne does improv. It’s all these.

Drew: It’s a loving little dig.

Analyssa: Luckily, I don’t think that she’s going to have to settle for those because before she gets there, she has to meet Joey Lauren Adams, right? Is that her name?

Riese: Correct. Yeah. Her name is Joey Lauren Adams.

Drew: Her name is Taylor.

Analyssa: Her real name.

Riese: Her character’s name is Taylor. But Joey Lauren Adams was a huge, huge deal in the nineties. Most memorably to everybody here, she was in the highly controversial film, Chasing Amy.

Drew: Has Chasing Amy had— do people like it now? I’m trying to think like I don’t know, Kissing Jessica Stein, The Kids are All Right, they’ve had a bit of a…

Analyssa: I think there was an in defense of Chasing Amy piece somewhere in the last couple of years. But I wouldn’t be able to say more than that.

Riese: We had one where someone talked about how it pissed them off when they first saw it in the nineties and then they revisited it.

Analyssa: Maybe that’s the one I’m remembering.

Riese: And then there was also a Buzzfeed piece where they talked to Kevin Smith. They also talked to Guinevere Turner because part of the inspiration for Chasing Amy was his friend and co-producer’s crush on Guinevere Turner, who’s a lesbian who played Gabby Deveaux and also wrote for the original series. And Kevin Smith dated Joey Lauren Adams while they were doing this film. And in the interview with Buzzfeed, he says something like, “No, I don’t think this was an important film for the lesbian community. I think it was an important film for just me personally.”

Analyssa: I wish that more filmmakers would just be honest about that and be like, “Actually I just made a film.”

Riese: He was 27.

Analyssa: “I made a film about what I wanted to see in the world and I did it for me. And sometimes people respond to that and sometimes people do not.”

Riese: But if you haven’t seen it, the basic conceit of it is a man falls in love with a lesbian and she decides to give men a try. And the film does not use the word bisexual at any point. And it undermines a lot of stuff. But it’s one of those things that could happen now. I mean similarly to how I think the way people feel about Alice dating men now is different than we felt during the original series. You know what I mean? Times have changed and there’s so much media out there.

Analyssa: I mean I think that’s the reaction to Kissing Jessica Stein too, right? It’s like, “Oh, well if you take this character as bisexual, then it makes sense and it’s okay.” And we’re just talking about those nuances a little more now.

Drew: Totally.

Riese: And we have so many more actual stories about relationships between women or other types of queer people. So that’s it. If the only stories we’re getting are women who aren’t really into women or women who are, whatever. Everyone knows this already. But anyway, in the nineties, she was a huge deal. She was in a bunch of the Kevin Smith movies. She was in Mallrats. She was also in Dazed and Confused. Also famously looked a lot like Renee Zellweger and they were often compared. So anyway, that’s her significance to the community. Oh, I think she also played a queer character in United States of Tara, maybe.

Drew: I love that show.

Riese: Anyway.

Drew: Is she queer?

Riese: No.

Drew: Oh, okay.

Riese: But she’s cute.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: She is really cute. And Alice thinks so too pretty early on. They’re flirting.

Riese: Vibing. Yeah.

Analyssa: They’re vibing. Alice asks her if she’s going to stay and watch the show, and she’s like, “No, I’m busy running this coffee cart.”

Drew: Yeah. Okay. So I just want to clarify. She runs a coffee cart that’s been invited by Party Planner Dani? She’s been brought in for the post hundredth episode party? Got it.

Riese: It’s Liberated Coffee, it said.

Analyssa: Liberated Coffee. They’ve got a bisexual flag on the cart.

Riese: Wow. Liberated.

Drew: What happens next is that Finley is applying for school/has filled out everything but is unsure if she wants to just press the button. Which is interesting to me as a pretty type A Capricorn personality where I’m like, “Just do it. And then you can decide later. You can waffle about your decision right after you find out if you get in or not.” But I also understand that people have different brains.

Analyssa: As an impulsive person, I’m like, if I’ve decided to fill out the application, I’m going to go ahead and submit it. It would be the decision to apply that’s like, “Oh well what’s it going to do to my life?”

Riese: It’s hospitality school.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: What do we think Finley is doing? Please tell me she doesn’t want to manage bars.

Analyssa: It must be managing bars and restaurants.

Riese: Maybe she wants to be a bellhop. Well, think about how cute she’d be in a bellhop outfit.

Drew: Crossover, White Lotus. Finley is at the next White Lotus.

Analyssa: Beautiful.

Riese: She would get fired pretty quickly somehow. But I think it would be cute.

Drew: It does seem like the staff at all the White Lotuses like to have sex with each other. So I do think that Finley could get into that mess.

Riese: I would love for her to work in a place that doesn’t serve alcohol though. A library, a coffee shop.

Analyssa: Coaching soccer. Wasn’t that fun for her?

Riese: Oh, yeah. That was so cute when she was coaching soccer.

Drew: Shane comes in all muscley and is like, “Let’s break shit.” And then we have a little Magic Mike XXL moment where it’s like they’re dancing to “Pony” by Ginuwine and also breaking shit.

Riese: Yeah, it’s fantastic.

Analyssa: I have long thought that “Pony” is a great karaoke song for a queer woman to do at karaoke night.

Riese: It is a very popular cover.

Analyssa: That one is just a fun one. I also think Teenage Dirtbag by Wheatus is on that list, in case anyone was wondering. You don’t change the pronouns, you just sing it like it was written and it’s got a queer girl swagger.

Riese: Yeah. And girls love horses.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: I love Magic Mike XXL, so I just want to put that out there.

Riese: And also this is a great moment for us to see that Kate Moenning has been working out.

Drew: I love that for her.

Riese: She has very strong arms. And anyway, this was super cute. I enjoyed every second of it and it wasn’t very many seconds, but I did enjoy all the minimum amount of seconds that we received.

Drew: And then Tess comes bursting in, giving the writers an excuse to have Shane cheat, by being slightly mean for no reason. And then Finley hits a pipe and Tess has a reason to be mean. I don’t understand why Tess is stressed since she wanted the bar so badly, but I’m going with it.

Analyssa: My note was she’s mad that they’re moving too fast, but she called an inspector before they even had agreed to buy the bar. And now they’re already doing demolition. So the whole thing is moving too fast. But okay.

Riese: I mean, I would get annoyed if it was my project, but also I would feel like after having definitely manipulated Shane into buying the bar, I didn’t have much ground to stand on. So that would probably stop me from being upset that they had started before I was ready.

Analyssa: Also she was the one who wanted to convince Shane to buy the bar. So now that Shane is a little bit bought into the project—

Riese: Yeah. Just let Shane do what she wants to do.

Analyssa: Yeah. I would be like, “Oh, this is kind of fun.” She does look incredibly beautiful while being mean, I want to say. They did something to her eyebrows here that really did it for me.

Riese: And now Shane’s soaking wet.

Analyssa: Yes. And chastised by Tess.

Drew: Yes. Speaking of people who you think are beautiful we go back to Dani doing all the little planning for Alice’s hundredth episode party.

Analyssa: And she’s on the phone with Sophie, which I already clocked as like “Oh, interesting.” And that comes back later. And speaking of coming back later, Nat comes back.

Drew: Oh wait. She’s talking about planning it at Gigi’s apartment.

Analyssa: She’s at Gigi’s. They’re getting ready for the big event. She’s on the phone with Sophie talking over final logistics. Nat returns to Gigi’s, which I guess is Dani’s, because later they’re talking about where Gigi lives.

Riese: I have no idea. I thought it was Dani’s.

Analyssa: I think it’s Dani’s high rise. There’s big windows which I think is Dani’s.

Riese: Gigi’s had that exposed brick, remember? I remember when Bette was in it and I was like, “Wow.” This feels more like Dani’s little…

Drew: I see. So Gigi’s staying there because she’s hurt, and then she, without telling Dani, invited Nat over because all of a sudden Gigi’s giving the writers an excuse to have that end.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Cool.

Analyssa: Nat has taken a tour through Tess’s crazy stripe closet and has a shirt on that has stripes in so many different directions. Also, Nat, Stephanie Allynne, love to see on both Reboot and the show.

Drew: I enjoyed when she said that Margaret Cho was on her bucket list. Not to fuck her, just to see her or meet her. That was funny.

Analyssa: That was funny.

Riese: Yeah. So Nat is going to help Gigi get ready.

Drew: And then Gigi asks Nat if they should talk about what happened. Because I love when Gigi’s being all communicative, and Nat is like, “No, I don’t want to talk about it.” And is like, “There’s nothing going on.” And Gigi’s looking at her with eyes that are like, “I want something to go on. I want to upset half of the Gen Q fan base.”

Riese: She’s like, “I have a commitment to this Apple TV program, Blackbird, and I need to get there by next Tuesday. So let’s get this show on the road.”

Analyssa: Let’s get this rolling.

Riese: Is this when they talk about it?

Analyssa: Not yet. What happens next is that Angie, speaking of exes is talking to her moms on the phone about Jordi and saying she has bad boundaries, but Angie’s at school, she’s busy, she’s got to go.

Drew: I got to say, if you do the breaking up, you do not get to be the one who’s like, “I still want to be friends. I still want to text all the time.” No. You shouldn’t either way if someone doesn’t want to, an ex doesn’t want to talk to you, you shouldn’t talk to them. But if you broke up with someone and then you’re going to text them a bunch? No.

Analyssa: As Angie was on the phone, I typed into my notes app, “Angie definitely kissed her TA, right?” It was just leading into a big reveal. And actually the reveal was even bigger than I could have anticipated, because it’s her professor.

Drew: Yeah. I screamed. I don’t know if you heard me. We live in the same house. I screamed.

Riese: It’s weird because at first I was like, “Oh God. It’s like I’m having…” Did you guys watch Pretty Little Liars?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I read the books, actually.

Drew: Oh, look at you.

Riese: Well you’re very smart.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: And I’m very proud of you.

Analyssa: But I never really watched the series.

Riese: I was like, “Oh no, this is an Aria and Ezra Fitz.” But then I remembered that Aria was 15 years old and Ezra, her teacher in high school, was significantly older. And Angie is legally an adult. And this man, do we think, I mean, if she’s a freshman, he’s probably like a TA, right? He’s not a full, he doesn’t have a PhD.

Drew: No. He might be an adjunct professor. So he’s probably, though, at least in his late twenties.

Analyssa: He says that he’s written a novel before and done some other things, which I think would qualify you to teach.

Riese: Anyone who’s written a novel before at my age, I think, “Wow.”

Analyssa: I would put him at 27 or 28. It’s not ideal.

Riese: I dated a 27 year old when I was 18.

Drew: Once again, how’d that go?

Riese: Well, we did stay friends after we broke up.

Drew: That’s nice.

Analyssa: My thing is actually not about the age gap necessarily. It’s about the fact that she’s still in his class. But we can talk about that later

Drew: We’ll get to this later. Cause right now it was just exciting scandal. And speaking of interconnectivity, Shane has gifted Alice a framed version of the Chart. And Tom has gifted Alice a basket of pens and we learn that Alice turned down his proposal, which does make me think, yes, we have more bisexual content then when Chasing Amy came out. But I don’t know, I just feel like maybe Tom deserved a little bit more than a quick mention.

Riese: But they do that with everyone. They do it with women too.

Drew: Sure. Honestly, the fact that they are breaking up Gigi and Dani does make me think that, “Okay, I guess you’re just doing your own thing.” At first I was like, “You’re just giving into all the fans and what the fans want, including biphobic fans.” But nope.

Riese: No, I mean, they t-boned Gigi with a truck.

Analyssa: Nothing is sacred.

Riese: No fan was like, “Please plow a truck into Gigi.”

Drew: I miss Tom. I like Donald Faison.

Analyssa: I thought the little bit about Shane pointing out somebody on the Chart and Alice being like, “No, I don’t talk to her anymore” was very funny.

Riese: I did pause on the chart and I was like, “What version of the Chart is this?” Because none of the people Shane dated that we know of are on the Chart. There’s no Carmen, no Paige, no Molly.

Drew: Well, cause it’s the first version, right? So what season was that, when did she first draw?

Riese: Oh, season one.

Drew: So maybe, I think it’s probably a season one Chart.

Riese: Well, I’ll give it a closer look.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: She erased it, remember, when the Army came over.

Drew: Right. So it has to be based on photos in the back of some old picture or something.

Analyssa: Speaking of Shane being a hub on the Chart, she has brought hair product to give to Ivy. So she’s just going to go find Ivy and actually just have a quick conversation about that.

Drew: The way Alice is talking about this is being like, oh you guys hit it off. I was like, “You know your friend Shane, and you know what Ivy looks like. Come on. Really?” Let’s grill her here.

Analyssa: She’s got bigger things to worry about. It’s her hundredth episode.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: Yeah. Do you think Ellen was worried about her friend?

Analyssa: George W. Bush?

Drew: (laughs)

Riese: Do you think Ellen was worried about George W. Bush hooking up with some makeup artist?

Analyssa: Wow. What an image.

Riese: She was worried about-

Analyssa: People looking at her in the eyes.

Riese: Or special guest John McCain.

Analyssa: Speaking of having too many things to do, Dani is talking about all the event stuff with Sophie.

Drew: They’re making a friendship work.

Analyssa: They’re starting to get along and then Sophie’s like, you and Gigi should come over for dinner with me and Finley, and I just feel like Finley and Sophie—

Riese: Please do.

Analyssa: Finley and Sophie should just both cool it on this a little bit. They’re just pressing for this to happen.

Riese: I want it to happen.

Drew: Once again, they’re the reason why the relationship ended. So they cannot be the ones to instigate friendship with Dani. This is just a very firm belief of mine that you have… Everyone’s so obsessed with being friends with their exes in our community, and I love that for them. But I also just think that you can’t force it.

Riese: No, you can’t force it.

Drew: It has to happen at its own time.

Riese: That’s true. But I mean, I also tried to force someone to be my friend who had broken up with me, and that didn’t work.

Drew: No, of course. And that’s also fine. But you’re at least, in your right, I think, to try that.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, you obviously like this person.

Drew: Sure, no, makes sense.

Riese: That’s why you dated them. And just because it’s not working romantically, I don’t know. It always makes me sad.

Drew: No, I agree with that. It’s more that I just think that if you interrupt someone’s wedding, then maybe it’s up to them to decide, which we’ll get to. But yeah, it was a choice.

Riese: I wanted it to happen for chaos. But also I feel like wouldn’t Gigi be like, “What am I doing with all of these children?”

Drew: Yes. Speaking of things that are broken, the pipe is still broken over at the second bar and Tess has a butch plumber who comes over who isn’t the butt of a joke.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: So exciting. Progress, progress, progress. We love to see it. This is a reference, if you didn’t watch the original show, to the original show.

Riese: But also remember how in Jenny Schecter’s adaptation, in Jenny Schecter’s version of Lez Girls that she turned the carpenter that Bette dated into a plumber?

Drew: Oh, that’s also interesting. I was just thinking of, oh wow, we have a butch love interest that is allowed to be just hot and cool and funny and not, I don’t know.

Riese: And Finley’s like, “This is my fault. I broke the pipe. Because who puts a water pipe in the middle of a freestanding wall that separates two areas of a building? So I’ll stay here, you should go.” But Tess is like, “I can’t go.” And on this note, I would like to say, what is going on?

Analyssa: I’m confused. Riese is making significant eye contact with me because Tess says, “I have my sponsee coming.” So presumably, they’re doing step work, which is a thing in AA, they’re working on the 12 steps, because Finley says, “I have the book, I have the highlighters, I can do it.”

Riese: And I’m like, how?

Analyssa: That’s not how being a sponsor works, number one. And also two, is Finley able to sponsor people? That doesn’t make any sense. So this is just confusing all the way around.

Drew: Okay. I’m glad you clarified that, because I had so many questions once we get to that interaction. I was like, “Wait, why is she here? What’s happening?

Analyssa: What’s really bothersome to me as a studio exec in my daytime life is that this is a really easy fix. This is not a note I would ever give because you never give line notes to a script. But it’s very easy to have Tess be like, “Shit, I was supposed to meet with my sponsee. Let me text her and see if maybe you guys should meet and hang out and chat as sober people.” but what ends up happening is Tess is like, “Oh you can just be a sponsor for a day.” Which is not how this would go, especially because Carrie and Finley know each other from their real lives, which is a little complicated.

Riese: Which it seems like neither of them remember.

Analyssa: So I don’t know. It’s very confusing.

Riese: I was also like, this is another part where I was like, is Tess also Finley’s sponsor?

Drew: Very confusing.

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Drew: I don’t know. Either way Tess is not a very good sponsor, nor maybe a good girlfriend. I don’t know. She does say that she was harsh, which, sure, and it happens to people. It is a trope that I don’t love, second to someone walking in on someone or whatever, is when someone is uncharacteristically mean in their relationship. They get into a fight and then the person cheats. And then right after they’re like I’m sorry I was shitty this morning. I just do think that if your partner’s ever mean to you one time, don’t go off and cheat that night. That’s a good…

Riese: Probably in general, you just shouldn’t cheat.

Drew: Oh, I agree with that. But I just really, I think especially if… Maybe if your partner’s mean to you all the time, end the relationship.

Analyssa: But if they’re mean the one time… So back at California University, Angie’s professor stops her after class. And Angie…

Riese: This is how so much porn starts.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Immediate vibes. And Angie is very flustered and she’s like, “I didn’t mean to kiss you. There was a lot going on. I don’t have to be in your class.” And here’s where I think as an adult, being given a paycheck by the university that Angie attends as a student, his responsibility was to say, “I think that you should drop my class.”

Riese: I don’t get it. Is that allowed?

Drew: What?

Riese: Are professors allowed to date students in college?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I don’t think so. No.

Drew: I mean, I don’t think so. Maybe some colleges, but I don’t think so.

Analyssa: I think no matter how young you are, if you’re teaching the class, you’re not supposed to get involved with someone. And even the fact that they already kissed, if he was like, “Look, we’re going to pretend it never happened. I’m going to be totally professional, let’s just keep a student…” But there’s like—

Drew: He’s flirting.

Analyssa: “No, I want you to be in the class.” And they giggle.

Drew: Bad, bad, bad. No good.

Riese: Maybe it’s the cycle because Bette hooked up with her—

Drew: I didn’t think about that.

Riese: And now it’s coming back around, and one day Angie will be going into the office and they’ll be like, “Wow, we had your mother in this same seat not so long ago, young lady.”

Analyssa: Or maybe it comes up and Bette is like, “How could this possibly happen?” And then has to reckon with what she did, because she’s on this journey of growth around Tina, maybe.

Drew: I don’t know. I mean, while it is a cliche, I do think it’s something that happens a lot. So if they do it well, I’m not against it. If it’s one of those things where in the original, we didn’t really, we were from the Bette perspective. And so now we’re going to tell this story from the student’s perspective. Something interesting there.

Analyssa: Sure.

Drew: I don’t know if I need it. I would rather just Angie have a fun ho phase instead of a questioning the nature of power dynamics and abuse ho phase. But oftentimes those things happen at the same time for us. And that’s just how it is.

Riese: Yeah. She’s going to write some great short stories. I’m sure.

Analyssa: About her creative writing professor, which is just… Elsewhere in inappropriate flirting, Ivy is really stoked about the hair product that Shane has brought and they’re flirting.

Drew: They’re flirting. And Ivy’s like, “Do you want to stay backstage and hang out where the party’s at?”

Riese: Yeah. Shane puts up one half a second of a fight.

Drew: So, there’s no-

Analyssa: I couldn’t possibly. Oh, okay. Nevermind.

Riese: If you insist.

Drew: Bernie Sanders meme: I’m once again asking Shane to talk to her partner about what she needs from a polyamorous relationship.

Riese: But then would we have a show?

Analyssa: And what would this show be without couples who aren’t speaking to each other? Speaking of which, Gigi has arrived at this event, which I think maybe I would not go to if I had just been in a car accident.

Riese: No.

Drew: You’re going, you’re, wait, you’re going with your ex-wife to see your former throuple. People. This is what I’m talking about. I really support being friends with your exes. But this is just too far.

Riese: This is beautiful. This is community. This is love. This is the way that we live. This is gorgeous. I love this for everybody.

Analyssa: Sisterhood.

Riese: Sisterhood is powerful. Gorgeous, gorgeous girls go with their ex-wife to see their former throuple partner shortly after being T-boned while texting their current girlfriend who is running the show and is in a bad mood for the entire episode.

Drew: And the producer of your former throuple partner that is your current girlfriend’s ex-fiance who was interrupted at the wedding.

Analyssa: And then there’s Finley who used to be a PA on the Alice show.

Drew: Also true.

Riese: Yeah. Why doesn’t Finley come back and work on the Alice show?

Drew: That’d be a great job for her.

Riese: But then she’d be with Sophie all the time.

Drew: That’s true. That’s too much.

Analyssa: But there is a way that Finley could be on the Alice show and be in a totally different department than Sophie and actually never interact with her, I think.

Riese: Or it could be like Jim and Pam. No one here wants to talk about The Office.

Analyssa: We both kind of nodded.

Drew: Yeah, we gave you a nod.

Analyssa: You just can’t see it on the pod.

Riese: I love The Office.

Drew: That’s okay.

Analyssa: Drew just saying, “That’s okay” very softly. Like you need to be consoled about enjoying The Office.

Riese: I don’t feel bad about it.

Analyssa: And that’s okay. So Dani comes over to see Gigi and make sure that she’s okay and Nat immediately asks for champagne and asks Dani to give her gift to Alice that she brought.

Riese: Yeah. Which is a bag of oranges, and Dani is so humorless.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Also Dani’s at work. I don’t know, whatever.

Riese: I think she’s just feeling overwhelming insecurity about the relationship, and so she’s unable to communicate like a normal person.

Analyssa: I also think, though, that Nat could be chiller.

Drew: Yeah. I think Nat’s feeling like a way about, “Oh I think I’m in love with Gigi again. We kissed, whatever.”

Riese: But everyone, we’re in love with Gigi.

Drew: Sure. No, I get it.

Riese: And you are all in relationships.

Drew: Sure. But you know what I would do instead of just hooking up with her? I think my girlfriend would probably also be in love with Gigi and that’s the way to do it.

Riese: Then you’d have a throuple

Drew: When these two had a throuple, I’m just saying that throuples could solve it. As someone who’s never actually been in a throuple, I do think that throuples could solve most problems on television.

Analyssa: On television, definitely. In real life, I’m not sure. Gigi in this conversation, they’re joking about their kids. They’re also flirting. It’s a big, big win for flirting this episode. Gigi does a big reveal that when she got hit, she saw her life flash before her eyes and she-

Riese: Did not see any of us.

Analyssa: She saw none of the hosts to To L and Back, which is frankly rude. She did not see Dani also. And she did see Nat and the kids.

Riese: Do you think they were floating on a cloud? I think it was the kids throwing jelly at each other and Nat was sitting out a mermaid in a shell.

Analyssa: Aren’t the kids too old to throw jelly?

Riese: Anyone could throw jelly at any age. You never know what’s going to happen.

Analyssa: That’s a good point.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Analyssa: That’s a good point.

Riese: We’re all going to die.

Drew: I just think that if I saw the mother of my children and my children when I was in a car accident, I would go, “That makes sense. I’m going to continue my good relationship with my hot girlfriend of a year and a half, Dani.” I just don’t think I would spiral.

Analyssa: What if your ex-wife was Stephanie Allynne and her hair looks really shiny today?

Drew: Her hair did look really good and Gigi has a hair thing. And I do think it bodes well for me if I was ever in the fictional L Word universe.

Riese: Well, I think that she, I don’t know why she’s spiraling. I don’t think that it could be that alone, because literally everyone I’ve ever dated at least comes through my mind at one point in any given day. I’m sure my life flashed before my eyes, who knows what I would see?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Besides my new wife: baked potato.

Drew: Anyways, Dani gives Nat champagne but with no glasses. Which is Dani.

Riese: A microaggression.

Drew: Very Dani. I do love it. She can be such a bitch.

Analyssa: Here, bitch. Take it.

Riese: Yeah. Luckily she has a reusable straw.

Analyssa: I just want to say, how long is the reusable straw that Nat is packing to get to the bottom of that bottle? I was impressed.

Riese: I would just drink it out of the bottle.

Analyssa: Me too.

Drew: That’s tough with champagne, though, because of the bubbles.

Riese: You can drink anything out of the bottle if you really want it.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And she did, because it’s what she asked Dani for first.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Carrie is back.

Riese: It’s so cute.

Drew: And tells Finley that Tess described Finley as…

Carrie: Leonard DiCaprio from Romeo and Juliet, and the hair and everything. I totally see it.
Finley: Wow. That is weirdly the nicest thing anybody’s ever said to me.

Drew: That is an incredible compliment.

Riese: It is really, because God, he looked incredible in that film.

Analyssa: And Finley makes kind of an offhanded joke about being on a gender journey, which I’m just, my ears said…

Drew: Yeah, I did catch that.

Analyssa: interesting. And basically Carrie is here to talk to Tess about the things that are going on in her life. So she’s just going to talk to Finley about it. I’m accepting this as whatever. Okay, cool.

Riese: But we hear that I guess Carrie’s spiraled after…

Analyssa: Finding out that Tina and Bette are back together.

Riese: And hit rock bottom, as one does or whatever. And then now…

Drew: I think now Carrie doesn’t like wet bread and isn’t around anyone who is going to make her eat wet bread.

Riese: Exactly. She’s not going to eat wet bread and that is movie magic.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: True. I will say that I don’t want a dry sandwich, but I don’t want a saucy sandwich either. I really like a very middle. And it depends on the sauce, because sometimes even light sauce.

Riese: I want a hard bread.

Analyssa: I want a bread that’s crusty enough that it doesn’t really matter. Because I do like a saucy sandwich. I’ll say it.

Drew: I like putting olive oil.

Riese: I think her problem is she went to Subway and their bread is made out of—

Analyssa: It’s basically paper.

Riese: The sheets they give you for free in college for your extra long bed. That’s Subway bread.

Analyssa: I do love that she’s still a deals queen. She’s like, “My punch card gave me an extra sandwich. Finley, you can have it.”

Riese: Her and Finley are a good fit as people.

Analyssa: Yes. They’re fun. And they should have been friends long ago, I think.

Riese: I want Carrie to adopt Finley. Maybe that’s because I know Rosie O’Donnell has adopted a lot of children, so I just feel like Carrie could adopt Finley.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: Yeah. And so it’s odd that the setup is that Finley is sort of adopting Carrie. Eventually they do a team up, I think. But Carrie has to pee so she’s going over to Dana’s.

Drew: Which again, we’re also noting that this meetup’s happening at a bar. So even if Tess is the queen of being able to be at a bar even though she’s an alcoholic, why are you inviting Carrie to a bar? Anyways, that’s what I thought was going to happen is Carrie was going to walk in, see all the alcohol bottles and I was like, “No, no, no, no, no.” But instead we get a meet cute.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s fun to be an outward viewer and just every time something starts to happen, tense up and think the worst thing is going to happen. And then when it doesn’t, you’re delighted like I was by this scene of the meeting.

Riese: Her nose busted.

Drew: Misty’s in the bathroom, Carrie goes in the door and…

Analyssa: It hits Carrie in the face is what Drew is motioning with her arm.

Drew: Sorry. This is a podcast.

Riese: I got really stressed out though because Carrie had to pee so bad that she was giving herself a little thing about Kegels and holding in the pee. And I was like, “Is she going to pee in her pants?”

Drew: I know. I was also really stressed about that. When did she pee? Did she pee?

Riese: Did she ever pee?

Analyssa: She’s still holding it to this day, rumors have it.

Riese: Maybe she peed a little.

Analyssa: Maybe she peed a little.

Drew: I know she had to have.

Riese: But then Missy puts tampons in her nose, which in my opinion was a throwback to when Miranda put tampons in Steve’s nose in Sex and the City.

Analyssa: Cute.

Drew: Wait, is it Missy or Misty?

Riese: I’m going to say it’s Misty.

Drew: I thought it was Misty, but I could be wrong.

Riese: Did I say Missy?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Oh well. I misspoke.

Analyssa: You. Mist-spoke. Nice.

Drew: I guess speaking of alcohol, one of the—

Analyssa: I was just about to say, unfortunately, speaking of sobriety.

Drew: Yeah. One of the Match Game contestants is too drunk. And so now Sophie needs to find a replacement last minute. Who could it be?

Analyssa: Who could it be?

Drew: Nat is also drunk.

Analyssa: It seems like she’s tipsy in the audience. They’re loosening up. You’d be a terrible criminal to me is a dead giveaway flirt. They’re flirting is what they’re doing.

Riese: Is this where they say they met when they were…

Drew: 18 and 19? I think so.

Riese: They met when they were 18 and 19. So did they date and then get married and then had kids, starting from when they’re 18 and 19?

Analyssa: That’s what I’m being led to believe.

Riese: That’s a really long time.

Analyssa: It’s a really long time.

Drew: Maybe in this episode, they met when they were 18 and 19 and in other episodes, who knows?

Riese: But okay, they’re in their late thirties, maybe early. The actors at least are, I think in their early to mid-forties. So does that mean they were married for 20 years?

Analyssa: Yeah. That is crazy because the series events of Gen Q have spanned three years, maybe.

Riese: Somewhere between three and 30 years.

Analyssa: And Gigi had been divorced-

Riese: And all of time is how many years? 10,000.

Analyssa: Yes, exactly.

Drew: So what were they doing when Jenny and Tim moved next door to Bette and Tina? Where were Nat and Gigi?

Riese: Married. Pregnant, probably.

Analyssa: Married and planning for a baby. Much like Bette and Tina were trying to.

Riese: They could have been friends.

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: The note that I took is The L Word: Gen Q‘s official position is, the ex you love most is your one true love.

Drew: Yeah. That really is their position.

Analyssa: That’s where they’re coming from.

Riese: Yeah. This season’s all about finding the one, except you already found the one and it’s your ex.

Analyssa: They’re already in your pool. You’ve actually already dated them. Try again.

Drew: I think the reason why I’m a little sensitive to it is because I’ve watched the way that my sister has emulated Sex and the City and given exes who are terrible and very much Mr. Bigs so many chances because of that messaging. And I’m like, “Well here we are doing the gay version.”

Riese: That’s what I did too with men. But the thing is, you can’t do it with women, because they start being in another relationship right away. So you can’t ever get back with your ex, because usually your ex gets married to the next person that they’re with.

Drew: But you have to also want to cheat as much as the L Word characters.

Riese: That’s true. Yeah. Yeah.

Analyssa: Hilariously this then cuts to Dani and Sophie interacting, and I was like, “If that’s what’s happening right now, I know I’ll lose my mind.” It’s not. Sophie asked Dani to be a fill in for the dating game and Dani’s too busy. And then we cut to Shane and Ivy also having a conversation. This is one of those where it’s like they’re just moving through the event every 35 seconds of how Ivy says she’s having a hard time on dating apps. Which, if that’s the case, we’re all…

Riese: The dating apps should just be abolished.

Drew: Well she doesn’t say I’m having a hard time getting matches. She could be having a hard time sustaining conversations with boring people who just say, “Hey. Stop, you’re so pretty. Heart eyes.” That feels totally realistic. Especially imagine you matched with Ivy, how intimidated you’d be.

Riese: I would be so excited.

Drew: I would be too, and I would obviously come up with something clever and worthwhile to send her, but a lot of people in our community would just be like, “I can’t message first. She’s so much prettier than me.”

Riese: Yeah. But it’s funny because Shane’s like, “Yeah, the dating apps.” Shane a hundred percent has never and will never be on a dating app.

Analyssa: Never in her life.

Riese: Shane is the dating app,

Analyssa: But they’re trying to find common flirt ground.

Riese: But then they get a group project.

Drew: Yes they do. Sophie brings Taylor over.

Riese: Taylor.

Drew: Brings Taylor over.

Riese: Makeover time.

Analyssa: They have six minutes and neither of them are moving with any urgency.

Riese: Absolutely not. No. They know that they’re in a TV show and that they have a lot more time than that.

Drew: I would like to say that in my notes, I wrote Ivy and Shane double team her, which is very interesting writing.

Riese: It was cute. I know Shane is dating Tess, but I’m upset about the second bar.

Drew: It’s a bummer, because if we wanted to do the storyline, this would’ve been a really fun storyline. I don’t know. I just think there could have been something more interesting instead of Shane doing a Shane again. But sometimes people don’t change. And speaking of people who don’t change, Alice is wearing another great suit. It’s a yellow suit and I love it. Beautiful. And Margaret Cho’s on the TV show to give little banter and jokes during the match game. And we learned that the first contestant is a man from rural Montana.

Analyssa: I want to know what the selection process was.

Riese: I am also a man from rural Montana, so I related to that a lot. Yeah. Is that the guy when they ask why do you want to be with Alice? And he’s like, “She’s the whole package.”

Drew: The second person says the whole package.

Riese: What did he say? Oh, what’s not to love? I would have shot him on sight.

Drew: And then Gigi is, we’re still, again, everything’s happening at the same time. Gigi’s leaving and Nat is taking her, but Nat has been drinking.

Riese: But also, before this, Dani peaked through the curtain and saw Gigi and Nat holding hands.

Analyssa: They’re touching hands.

Riese: Which is a really weird thing to do when you’re in a live studio audience or you could be filmed at any moment.

Drew: Dani, to her credit, confronts Gigi and it’s like, “What’s going on. Something’s clearly wrong.”

Analyssa: This does seem like a weird time to do that, though.

Riese: Dani wants to do it now.

Analyssa: Great.

Drew: No, it is a bad time.

Analyssa: Gigi also forced the conversation with Nat. We all want to confront our emotions currently.

Drew: Why is Gigi there in the first place?

Riese: Television.

Analyssa: For drama.

Drew: I know. Anyways, Montana Man is a veterinarian and then the second contestant runs a startup for NFTs.

Riese: Cold storage.

Drew: What?

Analyssa: Cold storage for NFTs.

Drew: Oh. I don’t know what that is.

Riese: At first I thought she was going to do cold storage for meats and cheeses. And I was like, “That’s hot.” But then she was like, “For NFTs,” and I was like…

Drew: Are TV shows being paid to shill for NFTs? Because Queen Sugar has had a whole NFT thing this season that feels the way product placement feels, where it’s awkward. And you’re like, “Why are they talking so much about NFTs?” And it made me think maybe TV shows are… Or it’s just a topical reference people can throw in.

Riese: Well I refuse to find out what NFTs are.

Analyssa: Me too.

Riese: No one can make me. Or why they need to use cold storage. I need to be in cold storage.

Drew: But Margaret Cho’s making jokes. It’s still fun.

Analyssa: And then they’re pushing Taylor out onto the stage to answer her first question. She doesn’t know what the question is. She’s very flustered. She even says:

Taylor: I don’t know why I have to be on TV right now.

Analyssa: But we are off to the races anyway.

Riese: Yeah. And she said she’s from Normal, Illinois. That’s a real place.

Analyssa: There are a lot of places named Normal in the world

Riese: There’s one in Oregon, right?

Analyssa: Back at the bar next door to Dana’s…

Riese: The Jenny Schecter Memorial Tavern.

Analyssa: Right. Finley and Carrie are trading drunk stories. Finley’s talking fondly about her time being drunk. Although I forgot that Finley grew up in Kansas City. So when she was like, “I took a bus from Kansas City to LA,” I was like, “What?” I had such a jump scare.

Riese: That’s actually, I mean that’s one way to get through a bus ride.

Drew: Goldschlager.

Analyssa: Bad.

Drew: What is that?

Riese: Goldschlager? That’s the first alcohol I ever tasted in my whole life on this planet.

Analyssa: Really?

Riese: Because I had seen Beverly Hills 90210, where people drink it. I did not know, because I was 13 or something. It wasn’t like we got drunk. It was like, “Let’s taste alcohol.” And it was at my fancy friend’s house. Of course they had fucking Goldschlager. I didn’t know that alcohol tasted bad. I had no idea. Cause on TV they’re just doing shots like it’s nothing. Luke Perry was always just like… So I was like, “Oh my God.” I was just shocked.

Drew: Wait, what kind of alcohol is, what is that though?

Riese: A Goldschlager?

Drew: I’ll Google it later.

Riese: Google it now.

Drew: No no.

Riese: But it has gold flakes in it.

Drew: Oh, it’s the Superbad drink!

Analyssa: I think it’s vodka.

Riese: Goldschlager is a Swiss cinnamon schnapps.

Analyssa: Schnapps.

Drew: Anyways, Finley is talking about how it’s harder to take risks and do stuff when sober.

Riese: Like press the button on her hospitality application so that she can become a manager of Subway.

Drew: They start joking about or talking about Misty coming by, and Finley’s like, “You’re into her.” And so then Finley’s like, “I’ll send in my college app if you go ask Misty out.” And Carrie’s like, “Sure thing.”

Analyssa: Carrie says, “I’ll do it.”

Riese: And then she is like, “I did it” and Finley sends off her college application. And then Carrie says:

Carrie: Well, no, it’s not actually a date.
Finley: What is it?
Carrie: I sort of joined her bowling league. I’m the newest member of I Can’t Believe It’s Not Gutter.
Finley: You know what? Playing the long game, I’ll take it.

Riese: And I thought it was a really good representation of how adult sports leagues make weird punny names. Although I was surprised that they didn’t somehow incorporate something lesbian adjacent into the name. But congrats to everybody.

Drew: Do we think that she asked, how do we think it went from asking out to bowling league?

Analyssa: I feel like she was like, “What are you doing some night?” And the plumber was like…

Riese: Bowling.

Analyssa: Bowling. Suddenly I’ve forgotten how to put words into sentences.

Riese: So did the writers.

Drew: It’s been a long day.

Riese: Just kidding. They didn’t. I love this episode.

Drew: And then we go to a cute little scene of Tess’s mom reminiscing and then there’s a Carly Simon song and they have a little dance moment. And it’s cute. If I felt more invested in Tess as a human being and well written character, I think I would probably be a little bit more into the moment.

Riese: Great robe.

Drew: Yeah. It’s a sweet little, little moment.

Riese: Her mom has great robes.

Drew: And it’s a reminder of Tess right before we watch Ivy walk up to Shane and drink her drink.

Analyssa: Top tier flirt.

Drew: Which is— Have you seen that in the world?

Analyssa: I’ve done that in the world.

Riese: Oh my god, I’ve done that so many times.

Drew: What!

Analyssa: Top tier flirt.

Drew: I’ve never seen that.

Analyssa: That’s a huge flirting move.

Riese: I’ve done it probably a hundred times.

Analyssa: I’ve done it so many times in my life.

Riese: Just take it right out of their hand and put it in my mouth. Yes.

Analyssa: Sometimes, what are you drinking? Grab it and drink.

Drew: Okay sure. But just walking across and taking it? And especially because it’s not like a straw. A straw I’ve seen.

Analyssa: But they’ve been flirting.

Drew: Oh no, I’m not criticizing. I’m just in awe of it. It would just work on me so well and it’s never been done on me.

Analyssa: I think that there’s a specific energy though, to the…

Riese: There is. There’s something, it’s like an intimacy, cause you’re like, “I’m not afraid of your germs.”

Drew: You’re putting your mouth where their mouth is.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Riese: And so then maybe you could put your mouth on each other’s mouths.

Analyssa: Right. Which is what happens later.

Drew: Why does everyone fuck at The Alice Show?

Analyssa: The set of The Alice Show should be memorialized.

Riese: It’s erotically charged.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Shane does not seem even a little bit concerned about the fact that she’s in a committed relationship. I feel like in the original, when she would do this, there would be a lot more tortured whatever. She’s like, “I know who I am and who I am is bending Ivy over and fingering her from behind.”

Riese: And God bless it. Bless them.

Analyssa: Bless them.

Riese: I thought this was a fantastic sex scene.

Drew: I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.

Riese: Two thumbs up to everyone involved. Congrats to everyone. Sorry, Tess.

Analyssa: Sorry to Tess.

Riese: But also, again, as you said last time, I do think that she should get a freebie on this.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of, I don’t want to say cheating because Gigi and Nat didn’t, it wasn’t a cheat. Gigi confesses the slight kiss. And Dani’s like, “Why are you trying to hurt me?” And Gigi’s like, “I need just some time.” And Dani’s like, “No, you don’t get time. We’re done. Go fuck yourself.” I know she doesn’t say go fuck yourself, but that’s the energy.

Analyssa: That’s the tone. Bold. Not what I would’ve done.

Riese: No. I would’ve wanted to spend at least three weeks talking about it.

Analyssa: Definitely feeling very tortured about it.

Riese: Yeah. I would’ve been in Slack the next day like, I’m having some personal problems, but I swear I’ll get my work done.

Drew: I get it, I get it. I don’t think that’s the move that I would’ve done, but I do understand the feeling of, you don’t seem interested in me anymore. It just happened a little too quick. But I do think she’s pulling away. She’s being distant. It feels weird. I get being like, “No, I don’t want that, if you have to think about whether you like me or not, then you don’t. And then we’re done.”

Analyssa: But I don’t really feel like that’s what she’s thinking about. My thing is just that she did just get hit by a car.

Drew: That is a very good point.

Riese: Yeah. Maybe she has a concussion.

Drew: That’s a really good point. Do concussions make you have developed feelings for your ex-wife? Is that common?

Riese: Every time I’ve had a concussion, I’ve immediately thought about Nat and my children. And the grape jelly.

Analyssa: She’s just reeling from a major event and they’ve been together for a year and a half.

Drew: That’s fair. That’s a good point.

Riese: But it’s a long time to just end it backstage at the Alice show. But I mean, Dani is very wham, bam, no thank you, ma’am.

Analyssa: Dani’s very reactive. Also, in fairness, which she brings up later, Dani has had this sort of thing happen to her already, so I can see that she’s primed to be like, “Fuck this, I’m out. I don’t need to wait around for it to get really bad.”

Drew: Yeah, that makes sense.

Analyssa: We cut back to the dating game and the contestants are giving such horrible answers to Why do you want to date Alice?

Drew: Awful.

Analyssa: Someone saying:

Contestant 2: Smart, sexy, and beautiful. The full package.

Riese: No.

Drew: What are you, like a middle school boy describing why you have a crush on someone and you don’t actually know anything about them? Very strange.

Riese: Saying what’s not to love. Honestly, a trap door should have opened up beneath his chair and he should have been shot to Middle Earth.

Drew: I would, again, I’d like to know where they found these people.

Analyssa: So Taylor says:

Taylor: Well, they promised me a coffee mug if I did the show. So, the free mug.

Riese: Yeah. That was cute.

Analyssa: It was very funny. And Alice likes it, and so Alice chooses Taylor. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Riese: Yeah. I mean also Joey Lauren Adams has a famous voice.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: She has a very distinct voice and it’s very sexy. What’s not to love?

Analyssa: I think that I had a crush on her when she was in Big Daddy. That’s why I asked.

Riese: In Dazed and Confused, loved her. Also, when I thought it was her in Empire Records before I realized it was Renee Zellweger, I loved that too.

Drew: Oh, Renee Zellweger in Empire Records is so hot. I do love how these two are totally twinning. When you see them standing next to each other on stage like that, you’re like, “This is exactly who Alice would date. Real live talk show Alice would absolutely date someone who’s less successful but looks very similar to her.”

Analyssa: They made Margaret Cho say, “Love is love is love” on stage. Which did…

Riese: Wasn’t she making fun of love is love?

Drew: They also made her say, “Unlike women’s reproductive rights in America, this choice is yours.” And I’m like, “That’s the best you can give Margaret Cho?” Let her write her own dialogue and pay her for it.

Riese: Yeah. I liked everything Margaret Cho said until the reproductive rights. And especially because then it flashed the audience.

Drew: The extras were extra-ing.

Riese: The extras were so extra. And I was like, “Okay.” They were like, “Good point about Roe v. Wade.”

Analyssa: Big nods from the crowd.

Riese: Okay.

Drew: Speaking of just throwing things and hoping it works, Dani is just throwing those oranges at Nat’s car. It was very funny.

Analyssa: I loved it. And I also love that it’s a bit of a throwback to when Gigi is banging on the door of Nat’s home.

Riese: I didn’t love that, once again, we have mixed signals about alcohol in this program, Because she’s like, “I should drive,” whatever. Which, first of all, should you? Aren’t you on pain meds?

Drew: No. Neither of them should drive.

Riese: I only had a few sips. I’m like, “You’ve pulled out a full straw to drink an entire bottle of champagne. You had more than a few sips.” And then, but then she just like, “No, just cause you’re a really bad driver,” which was funny.

Drew: That was funny. But I also was like… Also is it that Sepideh Moafi had another show to be on? What is going on? They’re just broken up now?

Riese: I don’t know. I will die if she doesn’t come back.

Analyssa: I’ll be devastated.

Riese: Yeah. I lay down my life for her.

Analyssa: I know that I’m in the minority, but I would also lay down my life for Nat and Stephanie Allynne. I want to see more of them. I just don’t understand why.

Drew: I love this for you.

Analyssa: Whatever, I love—

Riese: I know. I love it for you.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: Every time that Nat comes back, I’m like, “Oh, this would be great for you.”

Analyssa: Thank you for your support. You know what that is? Sisterhood. You know that is? Powerful.

Riese: And I think that, I really hope that this isn’t the end of Gigi for the season. I thought she was a regular, isn’t she in the promo photos?

Analyssa: I think so.

Drew: I just am so surprised by the breaking up of Gigi and Dani so quickly. It’s not that I thought they were so good together, but people loved them together. And I’m surprised we didn’t get to see it really.

Riese: Well, maybe what’s going to happen is they’ll get back together.

Drew: That’s true. That’s happened on The L Word before.

Analyssa: Famously.

Drew: So now Dani is sad and tells Sophie, this is the second time the person she wanted to marry ran off with someone else.

Riese: Also Dani’s eating 17 oranges. So that’s really great. Her skin is going to be glowing. Vitamin C.

Analyssa: So many oranges.

Riese: Radiant. She won’t need to take a multivitamin.

Drew: But they have some nice friendship moment. Dani says that Sophie’s killing it at work.

Riese: I thought that was a really good moment of how you always think someone else’s life is going better than yours. Where she’s always on both sides.

Analyssa: They’re both like, “You’re so together. You are killing it.” And both of them are looking at the other person.

Drew: Especially to your example who you haven’t totally patched things up with yet, you’re pretending to be doing better.

Riese: Also, you always look at your ex and think, “Oh my God, my ex is thriving without me.” You never see that. You never consider that anything could possibly be bad until your friends are like, “No, that she’s treating her just like she treated you.” And you’re like, “No, she’s not.”

Analyssa: They’re happy.

Riese: They’re happy. We never, in a way that we couldn’t be.

Analyssa: Why wouldn’t she feel that way about me? Yeah. Big stuff. Honestly, Sophie is a bigger person than me, because if Dani had made that little crack about two people who she wanted to marry leaving her, I would’ve just gracefully said, “Well, this seems like you’re having a bad time. I’m going to go.”

Riese: I would’ve felt so guilty,

Drew: I would’ve just stayed there and taken all the emotion. Give it to me.

Riese: I would’ve been like, “Unload it onto me entirely. I’m terrible.”

Drew: Let me help you and make you feel better.

Riese: Whatever you need. Do you want me to eat an orange?

Drew: So she then invites Dani over. I might have checked in with Finley, but that’s fine.

Analyssa: Will that come back to bite us? Don’t know. And Dani is a little bit confused by this as, honestly, am I. And Dani’s like, “Are you trying to get back together with me right now?” Sophie says not a fucking chance. Which now if I’m Dani, I say gracefully, “Go fuck yourself.”

Drew: I would also be like, “You don’t have to be that…”

Riese: I just love how direct Dani is, though. Whatever’s on her mind, she just fucking asks it.

Drew: Yeah. I really enjoy that. She doesn’t have to stay for the party. She just had to stay for the episode, which is interesting. But we’re going with it. And then Taylor tells Alice, “I’m from Normal. You’re from Alice. You don’t actually like this. No.” And Alice keeps being like, “No, you’re not. You’re not regular. If you are, so am I. And I once dated a famous person when I wasn’t famous. I get it.”

Riese: Do you think she’s talking about Dana?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Alice saying, “I’m just like you. I was once regular,” basically, really got me.

Riese: I thought it was so cute and authentic how she basically was like, “It’s okay.” It doesn’t even occur to her that Alice might actually want to go on the date. She’s like, “It’s fine. You don’t have to do this.” There’s no part of her that thinks she’s even rejecting Alice at all. It doesn’t even cross her mind.

Analyssa: She just runs a humble, liberated coffee stand.

Riese: Yeah. But surely someone in her life has been like, “You know you’re unusually hot. You should do voiceover.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I really loved that she’s giving Alice a big chef’s kiss to the episode. And I was like, “But what about a real kiss?” I thought they would make that joke.

Drew: I did too.

Riese: Yeah. But she is, she’s going to do it, right? She said she’d give Alice a little.

Drew: Yeah, I think this might be a love interest.

Analyssa: Potential candidate for the one.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Oh yeah. This is probably the one. Although if we’re doing this, then maybe Tasha, if everyone’s getting back with their exes, maybe Lisa’s the one.

Drew: Wow. That would be what I want to see. Trans woman Lisa returns. It’s what the people want. And by the people, I mean me, and my friends because my friends love me.

Riese: If Bette’s mom came back to life, couldn’t Dana come back to life?

Drew: That’s something

Analyssa: Now we’re cooking. Tess has arrived to just miss all of the episode, basically.

Riese: At any point in LA, if the episode has already started and you’re still at home, you’re not going to make it.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes. If you are leaving at the time that you need to be somewhere, wrong. You’re not going to get there in time.

Riese: Yeah. Stay at home and watch a show.

Drew: Shane is like, “I want to leave for no particular reason. Let’s get out of here real quick, real quick, real quick.” And they do. And oh, in the meantime, Tess also apologizes because we need that moment of Tess being like, “Actually, I’m sorry.”

Riese: I’m sorry I was a little harsh.

Analyssa: I take it back.

Riese: You can hit me with an ax.

Analyssa: But Shane can’t take back what she did in that blue light room.

Drew: I thought Ivy was going to come out right then. But instead Ivy waits until Sophie’s there. And I want to say that I really respect this, because I do think that if I felt like I was being kept a secret, I would be like, “I’m not going to be so chaotic that I ruined this person’s relationship. But I do want one person to know that Shane and I fucked. I want one person to know.”

Riese: Does she know that Shane has a girlfriend?

Analyssa: I don’t think Ivy does. Or would.

Drew: Oh, that’s a good point.

Analyssa: I don’t see why.

Drew: Oh, that feels…

Analyssa: So, I think she’s just bragging that she boned at work.

Drew: So maybe she didn’t even hear voices outside though. It wasn’t calculated. Unless Shane was like, “Stay in here.” I don’t know.

Riese: But she maybe knew because she found out Shane owned the bar and Shane owns the bar with Tess.

Analyssa: Oh yeah. Maybe. I think also a quick Instagram lurk would’ve revealed this information.

Drew: I think she probably has an idea. But I guess if I was flirting with a hot person and I was like, “I think this person has a partner” and they didn’t bring up their partner and continue to flirt with me, I would go, either this person is one of the many couples who are non-monogamous in some way, in a healthy way that is totally fine and not really represented on TV, or it’s not a happy relationship, in which case, no offense, but that’s not really my problem.

Riese: Wow. Ripe for invasion.

Drew: Well, we get our only appearance of Micah in the episode to be like, “I’m going to go away because Finley’s doing a special dinner for Sophie. Excuse me, the characters who matter are doing something. So I’m going to go to my room, goodbye.”

Analyssa: I’ll be the Harry Potter line that’s like, “I’ll be in my room making no noise and pretending I do not exist.”

Riese: And he’s also like, “That steak looks really good,” and Finley’s like:

Finley: It’s chicken.

Drew: That was funny. I did enjoy that.

Riese: But then Sophie shows up and first Finley’s like, “I made you this dinner.” It’s so cute. Whatever. Because I applied to college and your 100th episode. And then Dani comes in right behind and:

Dani: Figured I’d come piss in your hallway for a change.

Drew: So good. I loved it.

Riese: Perfect.

Analyssa: No notes.

Drew: Especially followed by truce. That is so, that’s power and I love it. And then Micah’s like, “I hear Dani, so I’m allowed to be in the episode for another beat.”

Riese: And they’re reunited.

Drew: They get to be friends again. And I did like that.

Riese: The original foursome who lived in that house together, they’re all around the table and they’re all going to be best friends forever.

Analyssa: I’m happy for them and I’m excited to see them all around the table.

Riese: Me too.

Drew: And that’s the episode.

Riese: Okay. So one thing about this episode that I think is important is that this is the first episode of any season of The L Word that has not included Bette Porter.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Because she’s in Toronto. And wait, am I not going to be in the next episode of our lives, cause I’m going to Toronto tonight? Do I just get removed? Depends whose story it is, I guess.

Riese: Well, you could call Angie if you wanted to.

Drew: That’s true. So we get a little bit of a reference. Cool. Though in the original show, when Bette would go to New York or whatever, we’d go with her. It just depends on who’s, you know, who’s the focus. But yeah, Bette is not in this episode.

Riese: I don’t know. I really expected we were going to see them in Toronto.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I’m fine with it because I do think that ultimately they want them to be endgame. And so if they want them to be endgame, what are we going to do with them for the whole season? Even if, I don’t know, I don’t need any more back and forth between are Bette and Tina going to get back together if the ultimate conclusion is yes. So just keep them together. Keep them in Toronto. They make appearances here and there. I’m fine with that. Watching people, I mean, there’s a reason why there’s so much cheating and chaos on The L Word. You need conflict.

Riese: In every show.

Drew: More creative ways to do conflict, but…

Riese: Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Murdoch Mysteries.

Drew: Unless one of them’s going to die, which I don’t think people would want. Can you imagine? Yeah. I don’t know. So we either need to really get into Tina’s work and really get into the intricacies of Murdoch Mysteries and what it takes to create that show, or what other categories in life. Family, I Bette’s reconciled with her mom and all the rest of her family’s dead. Tina, I don’t know.

Riese: She could run a marathon.

Drew: That’s nice.

Analyssa: They could start a business together.

Riese: They could start a little crafts business making bracelets.

Drew: But that wouldn’t really be respecting Tina’s work.

Riese: They could start a business making matching hoodies for dogs and humans.

Drew:Wow. That is cute.

Riese: That already exists.

Drew: Did we like this episode?

Riese: I did.

Analyssa: I did.

Riese: I liked it a lot. I thought it was really fun. I liked having a break from Bette and Tina. I liked that we were able to focus on the other characters, and also it meant that there was always a actor on screen at any given moment, which was fun.

Drew: There was a lot of fun stuff in this episode. There was also a lot of stuff that felt maddening and confusing, but it was eased by the fact that there were good guest stars. Rosie’s back. There was that meet cute. That was really fun.

Riese: No, I was entertained and enjoying myself for the whole time. There wasn’t any part where I was like…

Analyssa: Yeah, me either. And the interesting thing is that the first two episodes of the season feel like they functioned as a mini movie. And now this almost has season premiere vibes where there’s a lot of seeds planted for different stuff.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Analyssa: Which is interesting, because we were just saying how last episode was season finale vibes. It feels like those two episodes were sort of their own piece.

Riese: Yeah, like Battlestar Galactica when they have the little… No.

Analyssa: Nothing for me.

Drew: I mean, lots of shows do in between seasons, like a little movie. Very British.

Analyssa: Very British.

Riese: So I had a great time. I liked the episode. Everyone did a wonderful job. And I liked Margaret Cho. I liked Joey Lauren Adams and I liked Khelani.

Analyssa: We’re being blessed by iconic guest stars this year.

Riese: Oh, and Rosie. I hope we get more Rosie.

Drew: Me too.

Analyssa: I do too.

Riese: She was filming a few times, so hopefully, I feel like she was back and forth.

Analyssa: Yeah. I feel like she posted last episode or something, which means more than one.

Drew: Yeah. I hope we get to see this whole romance. Are we not going to? That would be such a bummer.

Analyssa: Drew, how would we know that?

Drew: I know, I know. I just don’t want them to desexualize her. I want to get, I don’t know. Anyways, we’ll see. And you’ll see.

Lauren Klein: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle dot com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at To L and Back, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented B Stedwell, and our Gen Q logo is by Jax Co. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram at Lauren Taylor Klein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow on Analyssa on Instagram at analoka with two As, and on Twitter at analoka with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere at Ottawin. Autostraddle is at Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this ep, let’s hear some keyword words from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1…

Riese: Quiz Show.

Drew: Once again, Riese, you’ve crushed it.

Riese: Yeah, thank you. It’s quiz show because this episode was called Quiz Show.

Analyssa: Nice. Nailed it.

Riese: Thank you.

Analyssa: I said quagmire.

Drew: Ooh.

Analyssa: First Q word that popped in my head, honestly. Actually, the first thing that popped into my head was chaos spelled with a Q.

Riese: The first thing that popped into my head was Quincy.

Drew: Qualitative, because that’s the only way that you can judge. I mean, that’s how I judge the TV show. Not quantitatively, because it’s not really numbers involved unless I was doing it by how many hookups or if you do your fight count.

Analyssa: I was going to say, that’s a Riese recap style.

Drew: But you don’t judge the episodes off of being good or bad based on how many things there are. But yeah, so that’s the key word I thought of. Well, I got a flight to catch.

Riese: Oh yeah. To Toronto to see Tina.

Drew: To Toronto to see Tina.

Analyssa: How very The L Word: Gen Q of you to have to run out to get to the airport.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: You need an 18 year old driving you madly. But instead it’s just me.

Drew: That’s so nice. Such a nice friend. Ana’s driven me to the airport and picked me up multiple times in the last month.

Riese: Wow. You’re a hero.

Analyssa: I actually love driving people to and from the airport. This is something to know about me if we are friends.

Riese: Can you pick up my mom on December 9th?

Analyssa: I don’t know your mom, but I would.

Riese: Okay.

Analyssa: I do. I just like it. I think first of all, there is some karmic points.

Riese: Someday, someone will give you a ride to the airport.

Analyssa: I have been driven to the airport by Drew and also my other roommate and also many other friends who have been like, “Oh yeah, you did that for me.” But I don’t really do it for that. I do it for 40 minutes of being in the car, hanging with my friend.

Drew: That’s so nice.

Riese: That’s so sweet.

Analyssa: And then you get to drive back and you get to play music or just be, I like being in the car. I’m from the Midwest. We drive a lot.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Well.

Analyssa: Okay. That’s it.

Drew: See you next week.

Riese: See you next week!

“To L And Back: Generation Q Edition” Podcast Episode 302: Los Angeles Traffic

Look, sometimes you have to get back together with your ex! Not always, granted, and probably not every ex, but sometimes…it must be done. I know a lot of other things happened in this episode, but doesn’t the much-awaited Bette and Tina story feel like why we’re all here this week?

While Bette and Tina are having their own season finale, we’re also talking this week about Micah and Mari’s potential baby, Shane and Tess’s metaphorical baby (the bar), and whether we generally feel insecure in our own romantic relationships (not all of us!).

A black button that says listen on Apple Podcasts in purple and white lettering

A black button says Listen on Spotify in white and green text

SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s 301 recap (and her 302 recap for that matter!) went up at the perfect times, thank you very much!
+ Our prediction about Twitter hasn’t yet come true, but you can read a thoughtful essay from Niko about Twitter even still!
+ You can follow Autostraddle on tumblr.com, the social media that may outlive us all
+ Alice should send her pals Riese’s Jojo Siwa explainer
+ Alice’s date is part of the NXIVM cult, if you missed the references
+ Imagine Me & You is on the top 200 queer movies list, and I still haven’t seen it, cancel me!
+ I’ve never watched one episode of Glee, but here’s Riese’s recap of the Quinn car crash

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I am Riese.

Drew: And this is To L And Back: Generation Q Edition.

Riese: To L And Back: Generation Q Edition.

Analyssa: Oh, that was beautiful.

Drew: That was incredible.

Riese: That was gorgeous.

Analyssa: You’d never know we didn’t know how to do that two seconds ago.

Drew: No.

Riese: Yeah. That was our fourth take.

Drew: Editing is amazing. Shout-out Lauren.

Riese: Well, guys.

Drew: We’re here.

Riese: We’re here and we’re recording ahead of time, very far ahead of time. And today is Thursday, November 17th, and The L Word dropped their first episode today, a day early, and I am in a full panic because my recap is not ready.

Drew: I’m very sorry about that.

Riese: So that’s just where I am.

Analyssa: When people in the Autostraddle Slack started talking about the episode today, I was like, “But we haven’t even gotten the first cut of the podcast yet.”

Riese: Everything’s moving too fast!

Analyssa: I suddenly became that blonde lady with the math over her face. Like, “Wait, what do I have to do between now and whenever everybody sees it?” Anyway.

Drew: I have enjoyed following people’s tweets already. I feel like there’s really two-

Riese: I haven’t gone on Twitter yet.

Drew: Oh, that’s brave. I think there are two camps of… There’s obviously so many camps of L Word fans, but right now it feels like there are two really strong ones. They’re the Bette-Tina people and they’re the Dani-Gigi people, and I think they are going to go to war.

Analyssa: Wow. I think this episode put me firmly in both camps. Is that weird?

Drew: Wait, supporting both of them?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, cool, cool, cool.

Riese: I already supported both of them.

Analyssa: Well, we’ll talk about my opinion on that later. My Twitter has been overrun just by all the Taylor Swift discourse.

Riese: Oh yes. Yeah.

Analyssa: I haven’t even seen L Word tweets. I’m only seeing people planning an overthrow-

Riese: That’s my whole TikTok. Yeah.

Drew: By the time the second episode of Gen Q Season 3 comes out and this episode of the podcast comes out and you are listening to this, Ticketmaster will be destroyed by Swifties, Twitter will be destroyed by Elon Musk, and-

Riese: Everyone should follow autostraddle.tumblr.com. I’ll tell you what, I’ve gotten back into Tumblr.

Drew: I love Tumblr.

Riese: And, man, I fucking love Tumblr.

Drew: Do you know that the way I got my first piece at Autostraddle is I would just write stuff on Tumblr for 10 people.

Riese: Oh really?

Drew: And then, Heather Hogan tweeted out, “I’m looking for a trans person who has a take on Supergirl.” And I had just written like the essays that I write. Long form personal essay, criticism, 3000 words, and I just sent Heather a link my Tumblr and was like, “This isn’t professional but I’m not a professional, maybe I could be.” And Heather was like-

Riese: Oh, we hired people from Tumblrs all the time.

Drew: Yeah. It was great.

Riese: But obviously, our best achievement was that we took afterellen.tumblr.com and filled it up with pictures of shirtless men. And then, we got a letter eventually.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: But it was no longer ours and our URL had been changed to afterellenfans.tumblr.com so that AfterEllen could have their own Tumblr. But for two years they did not claim it. We should’ve have taken thenewyorker.tumblr.com.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Anyway, so.

Drew: On that note, we want to get into the episode?

Riese: I’d love to get into the episode.

Drew: Great.

Riese: As much as I love Tumblr, I would love to get into this episode.

Drew: This is episode 302. It is directed by Katrelle N. Kindred, who directed last week’s episode, and it’s written by Julia Hannafin, who started as a writers assistant on Season 1, wrote on last season, was one of the writers on Love Shack, which as we said last season, one of the best episodes of the show, and now, here she is.

Analyssa: We love a career progression in writing.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I’m so happy for her.

Drew: Well, we start where we stopped last episode with Angie walking in on her moms doing a little kissing.

Analyssa: A lot of kissing, I feel like.

Drew: A lot of kissing.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I love that they’re like, “Should we do something about… Actually, no. Let’s just kiss.”

Drew: Oh yeah. It’s wild… First of all-

Analyssa: They’re like, “Our daughter has seen us kissing for the first time in her lifetime basically.” And then left crying. Also, maybe she seemed upset coming-

Riese: No, she’s at college now. She’s no longer their responsibility. They should bone. Bone now.

Analyssa: They’re like, “Actually, we have bigger things to worry about.”

Drew: It was so funny watching them try to recover. And then when she left, Tina saying she’s seen worse, killed me. I was dying. And then, yeah, there was fully a sex scene. We get a little sex scene.

Riese: Yeah, and I think it was great for everybody. I really wish that they would take their bras off but it’s fine.

Analyssa: I was like, “The bras stay on during sex.” I was really noting them.

Drew: I do think that there should be a way to cut around… I get not wanting nudity but I feel like let’s just-

Riese: Let’s cut around.

Drew: Yeah, let’s just do a lot of feet stuff. I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah. Lots of times, they’ll do it where they smash themselves together so much, the nipples get obscured by the other person’s boobs. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I also-

Riese: I’m demonstrating this now with my hands. It doesn’t take much to smash my boobs.

Analyssa: It’s a good demonstration though.

Riese: Thank you. Yeah.

Analyssa: For me, it wouldn’t be an issue.

Drew: I think that maybe they’re just really into bras.

Riese: Bra play?

Drew: Maybe that’s a thing. Sometimes people are like, “No, keep it on. This is hotter to me when you have a little bit of a tease.”

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I do want to say about the scene that Laurel Holloman’s face really does light up when she looks at Bette. Do you know what I mean?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Every time I see her look in the direction of Bette, I’m like, “Okay, I’m onboard.” She glows.

Drew: This is this about this whole episode but I felt like I was watching my moms kiss. I was happy for them but… And it’s not really an age thing because I’ve watched Bette have sex scenes over the past two years and it didn’t feel this way, there is something about their dynamic that does feel a little bit like, “This is sweet.” I’m happy for anyone who’s getting turned on and it could just be that I am significantly younger. Maybe I’m getting over some of my things and I’m getting to a healthier… whatever. But I just was watching this and being like, “I’m happy for those two. Good for them.”

Riese: Yeah. It’s wild to think though, if you really put yourself to the mindset of the story, that they’ve been having sex for how many years now? They met in ’96.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Wow.

Drew: Lesbian sex was totally different in ’96.

Riese: Right. Yeah. It was.

Analyssa: It had only barely been invented.

Riese: Yeah. People were still just trying to scissor and not knowing what it meant. Just kidding. We know people were already boning full horse riding.

Drew: Yes. That was a joke. Just to clarify that. I’m aware that lesbian sex of all types has been happening for a long time.

Riese: I wasn’t having sex in 1996 because I had head gear.

Drew: I wasn’t having sex in 1996 because I was… How old was I?

Analyssa: Redacted.

Drew: Three? Four?

Analyssa: I was a toddler.

Riese: Oh, well, that’s cute for you guys. So, anyway, but also they’ve gotten back together so many times that I’m sure that they really probably love this. They must love the moment when you get back together with someone that you’ve had sex with more than anyone else in your life and you’re like, “Here we are again.”

Drew: You have experience… I’m sorry. I keep really calling you out on your life but I just don’t have this experience of ever hooking up with someone who I used to hook up with more than just break up sex. I’ve done that but I haven’t ever gotten back after more than a month or two.

Analyssa: I’m a humongous ex returner. I’ve returned to nearly every ex, and often with a pretty decent gap. And as Drew is referencing, the man that I’m dating currently, I dated last in college, which was five years ago.

Riese: Tom.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: He’s an editor and a book publisher.

Analyssa: And he also looks a lot like Donald Faison.

Riese: And yeah, he looks… He’s Donald… Yeah.

Analyssa: And he worked with The Aloce Show. Speaking from personal experience, I really actually like the moment of Bette being like, “It’s been a long time. I look different.” Because even I had that with Lewis and it’s only been five years since we last hooked up, or four, something like that and I was like, “Ah, this doesn’t all look the same as in college.” And so, they’ve had a much bigger gap. I don’t know. I thought it was very sweet.

Riese: I’m always like, “I’ve learned so many new things since we last met.”

Drew: I would love to have sex with someone who I had sex with before transitioning but there just weren’t that many of them because I really had two long relationships and two others, and I don’t think any of those four people… I don’t think it’s happening so-

Analyssa: Not worth it probably. Okay. Well, speaking of people who are extremely beautiful, Dani and Gigi are debriefing the Nat conversation. Basically, it sounds like Nat was like, “I want to spend more time with Dani before I put my opinion in.” And Dani is not taking this very well.

Riese: Yeah. I think she is just assuming it has something to do with, or feeling insecure about her relationship or that Gigi is still into Nat or something, when really, it’s completely reasonable.

Drew: It’s so reasonable. Gigi is so correct in this fight.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Although, I do think she could also take her tone down a little bit.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: Both of them, I was like, “Okay, you guys are actually both right so if you could just relax a little bit.” But-

Riese: Also, Gigi had her shirt partially unbuttoned.

Analyssa: Which would’ve softened me up in any argument. I was like-

Riese: Yeah. I would’ve been like, “Yeah, I’ll have sex with Nat.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Anything you need. Nat needs me to bring her takeout for a week? Sure. I’ll do it.

Riese: Yeah. Does she need me to wax her eyebrows? I don’t know how but I’ll do it. I can barely pluck my own.

Drew: Gigi could’ve… We didn’t get to see the immediate response, but she could’ve been like, “Nat just wants to get to know you.” But could’ve framed it as a positive of like, “Nat is really excited for us and just wants to get to know you better first because it is our kids living with you too and that is a big…” I don’t know if that’s… Gigi is not always the best at doing things, but the way that she said Daniela was-

Riese: Arousing. Yeah. Yeah.

Drew: Oh baby.

Analyssa: Although the me in me, if I were in that fight, I would be fuming. My temper would have skyrocketed. And then, I think like so many things in The L Word actually come down to people being like, “I want to be the number one slot in your life.”

Riese: Is it about finding the one or about being number one?

Analyssa: So true, Riese. Really good tie in.

Riese: Thank you.

Analyssa: And I just think that’s really not realistic in life.

Drew: No.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: And obviously, they’re not real live people but I’m-

Riese: Yes, they are.

Analyssa: Right. But I’m like, “Dani, babe, it’s okay.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Nat is going to rank sometimes higher because she’s the co-parent.

Drew: Yeah. I’m happy… It’s really satisfying when… This happened a couple times this episode where I was like, “But but but but…”

Riese: And then later-

Drew: And another character was like, “But.” And I was like, “Yes. Thank you.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Whew. It’s like I’m talking through the TV. How incredible.

Analyssa: Speaking of kids, Tess has this idea that the bar is going to be-

Drew: Right, right, right. And so, Tess is kissing all over Shane and being like, “Can I convince you to get the second bar?”

Riese: I was so annoyed.

Drew: So intense about it.

Analyssa: I was so annoyed.

Riese: Irritated.

Drew: Also Tess got a call about… From a realtor? I was like, “Why are you moving forward already?”

Riese: Already doing an inspection?

Analyssa: An inspector is coming. That’s so serious.

Riese: That’s so far into the process of-

Drew: I don’t know enough about real estate.

Riese: When you’re ready to make an offer, you get an inspector to come to make sure that everything is cool. Or in my case, they come and they say everything’s cool but because it’s winter and the ground is frozen over, they don’t go under the house, then you find out a year later that you bought a house on a sinkhole. But in general, I think this inspector, at this time in LA, which is temperate year round, would be able to go in and say, “This is not on a sinkhole.” Or, “This isn’t a sinkhole.”

Analyssa: I think that’s actually inspector number one kind of-

Riese: Exactly. Inspector Gadget.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Speaking of homes not built on good foundation-

Riese: Nice.

Drew: Thank you. We go to Sophie, Finley, Micah where Finley is setting up Pictionary and Sophie tells Finley that Maribel hates her.

Analyssa: Which is a really strong start to this conversation-

Riese: I would like to say the game night, the sober person wanting to have a game night representation, I felt was really, really resonant for me. When I dated my first sober person, the best part was game nights.

Drew: I love game nights.

Riese: So many game nights.

Analyssa: Let’s do a structured activity where none of us actually have to get boozy actually. That would be great. I really love the enthusiasm too of being like, “I built this easel.”

Riese: Yeah. I think that’s so cute.

Analyssa: It’s for Pictionary.

Riese: Yeah. Finley is basically like, “If she talks to me and gets to know me, she’ll like me.” Which I don’t think is true.

Drew: I don’t think it’s true but that is correct. It is correct that the only way to move forward is to try to spend some time together, reach a certain… I do agree with that.

Riese:Yeah.

Analyssa: Finley coming back home and also coming back so strong with her little Finley-ism. She says show show and easel-her-in, in the span of 35 seconds, and I was like, “Okay. She’s back. She’s here.”

Riese: Anyway, surprise. She heard the whole thing.

Analyssa: Oh yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Doesn’t want to do it.

Analyssa: Mari lives here which I found out in this episode but peaks out from behind the curtain and is like, “Heard all that. Don’t want to hang.” She also says that Finley just gives her a headache, which I thought was really funny. There’s a couple different issues. She finds her annoying, she finds her toxic, she doesn’t like her. They’re all in the stew.

Riese: She ruined the wedding.

Analyssa: She ruined the wedding.

Riese: Which is a lie. She peed in the hallway.

Drew: Not a lie.

Riese: Not a lie.

Analyssa: That actually did happen.

Riese: But it wasn’t her hallway.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: That’s Dani’s cross to bear.

Drew: That’s true. Speaking of couples that are getting back together, Alice and Shane are talking about the drama of Bette and Tina, and then Bette and Tina walk in holding hands.

Analyssa: I loved Alice talking about the group text dynamics that are at play. She’s… Literally, every episode convinces me a little bit more that I’m very like Alice.

Drew: Uh huh.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I wrote, “She’s so me.”

Riese: Yeah. This was cute.

Analyssa: This was cute and Shane also reveals that she knows about Jordi. There’s just a lot of, “This is a very close knit family.”

Riese: The Planet vibes.

Analyssa: Big The Planet vibes.

Riese: It did make me think they really should have Finley working daytime at Dana’s instead of at nighttime. You know what I mean? Why don’t they have her working days?

Drew: Yeah. It’s more of a coffee house vibe. At least that’s how it is at Semi-Tropic.

Riese: Yeah, because they serve food during the day.

Drew: That’s what it is.

Riese: Yeah, yeah. They’ll give you hummus.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And Semi-Tropic is the LA bar that is Dana’s set if anybody…

Drew: Yeah. When I lived in Echo Park, I would sometimes go there to hang out in the day.

Analyssa: Really?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s fun.

Drew: Yeah, it was fun.

Analyssa: Oh my God, look at you, doing fun stuff during the day. Also, Leisha Hailey looks really hot this season.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. She really does.

Analyssa: I didn’t shout out her boobs in the last season because I felt a little lecherous but good job to her.

Riese: Yeah. I think she’s still doing a great job. Her hair looks fantastic.

Analyssa: And they continue to style her, I think, really well even when it’s a silly outfit. I’m like, “Yeah. Go off.”

Riese: Yeah. I like that they’ve leaned more into “menswear” for her. I think that’s been really fun. But anyway, so then they sit down with Bette and Tina to have a meal or to just talk.

Drew: They’re just talking.

Analyssa: They’re hanging at The Planet.

Drew: The one important thing is that Ivy texts Shane.

Riese: Oh right.

Analyssa: Oh and Alice is taking a date to the Marcus Allenwood gallery opening.

Drew: An age appropriate actress, which he’s very proud of, and then Shane is like, “Be careful of actresses.” Which I take offense to as someone who pretty much exclusively has dated actresses.

Analyssa: I actually stand by Shane as someone who has also pretty much exclusively dated actresses and actors. I really loved Alice saying this call might be JoJo Siwa’s people. And Shane and Bette and Tina could learn about who JoJo Siwa is if they read autostraddle.com and Riese’s intrepid reporting.

Riese: Yeah. Exactly. I, too, did not know who this person was. And then she came out and then I had to find out. And now I know so much about her but I also feel like… Why did Angie have to learn about JoJo Siwa?

Drew: Yeah. It definitely… But also how engaged is Angie…

Riese: Because I feel like the people who know who JoJo Siwa is are children and parents.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: But do you think Angie would’ve been wearing the JoJo Siwa bow?

Drew: No, she’s a little too cool.

Riese: No, I don’t think Angie would’ve been into JoJo Siwa also but I just feel like she might’ve existed in the-

Drew: Sure.

Riese: But I don’t know what it’s like to be a parent to a child who’s now 18.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Who would Angie’s… Who do we think her pop star favorite would be?

Riese: Janelle Monáe.

Analyssa: Oh, that’s a good call. Instant pull.

Drew: Finley being Finley, not off to a great start.

Riese: Congrats on what?

Analyssa: She jumps in so fast.

Riese: Even if Micah had already said, “Let’s do it.” Still, congrats on what?

Analyssa: Yeah. The decision? It’s not-

Drew: No.

Analyssa: It’s very odd.

Riese: No baby has been made yet.

Analyssa: And then pushes on the biology stuff which simply-

Riese: Yeah. “Oh, you’re both so cute. Who will it be? Oh God.” It’s a classic Finley fumble but it’s also such a bad fumble.

Drew: Yeah. It’s real bad.

Riese: It starts out bad and then it just continues to get worse.

Drew: Also, Sophie should have… If she told Finley, “Don’t talk about this.” And also Maribel should have been like, “Don’t tell anyone…” There’s so many levels here. This shouldn’t have gotten to… Finley can’t be trusted with… If you’re going to date Finley, if you’re going to be around Finley, you have to have a certain level of knowledge.

Riese: Yeah. Right.

Analyssa: Also I do feel like when you are the secret keeper for someone, you get one additional person to tell.

Drew: 100%.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: But, like you’re saying, Drew, there is protocol. You say, “I’m not telling anybody else this, and actually, Mari would kill me if she knew I told you so stop here.”

Riese: Yeah. That’s what I have to do with Gretchen because she loves to say the thing that will be most exciting for everyone to hear. So, I have to be like, “You can’t say this.”

Analyssa: This is actually just for us.

Riese: Yeah. This is just for us. But she would not say this because I don’t-

Analyssa: This is-

Riese: This is insane.

Analyssa: This is a wild thing to even start with. I can’t decide. I go back and forth on whether I like Finley’s little asides that are like, “I’ll just go fuck myself, I guess.” Or like in the first moment she was coming in she was like, “Wow, what a warm welcome.” When nobody said hello to her really quickly. And I sometimes get a chuckle out of them and sometimes I roll my eyes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Did you have something about her communication?

Drew: I don’t know. The next scene is when Bette says to Dani, “You’re wrong and you need to… Gigi prioritizing her children is prioritizing her children, not prioritizing Nat, and you’re going to be a parent if you want to live with her. So, is that something you want?” It was just very new Bette, mature, thoughtful, good advice, adult, and I did like the return of the Bette-Dani mentor-mentee dynamic. This was very fun.

Analyssa: Oh yeah. Remember when we thought they might kiss?

Drew: We sure did think that.

Riese: Oh god, I wish they had kissed before all of this happened. Do you know what I mean? Because now, I feel like Bette and Tina, that’s set. Do you know what I mean?

Analyssa: And Dani and Gigi, I’m like, “It would be so wild for…” Because even when Dani asks Bette about this or brings it up, she’s like, “Can I talk to you about Gigi? Isn’t this tricky?”

Drew: I forgot they were together.

Riese: And I love this representation of when you ask someone for help and they give it to you and then you completely change immediately. I do that all the time.

Drew: Yeah. Same.

Riese: I’m like, “Well, I was going to do this but then someone who knows slightly more about this topic than I do told me I was wrong and now I’ve decided to change my entire attitude about it.”

Drew: I love that. It’s also why I do think, in a relationship, sometimes it helps to not act on your emotions immediately, because sometimes you talk to your buds and you’re like, “I’m having this feeling.” And your buds can go, “You’re wrong.” And then you go, “Hmm. Okay.” And then you process the feeling and then you can return to the conversation in a better way. And I think people really struggle with that.

Analyssa: Yeah. Not me. I’m always right but-

Riese: That’s so nice.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s really actually really fun. The other thing, just because it comes back later, is that Dani’s doing a really good job at work but wants Bette to do this Vogue interview about the gallery.

Riese: Which she should, right?

Analyssa: She should.

Riese: Who doesn’t want to be in Vogue?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I was interviewed for an article about Shane that was in Vogue.

Analyssa: That’s fun.

Drew: I was on-

Analyssa: Drew was-

Drew: Yeah. Christina and I, for Wait, Is This a Date? were on the website for Vogue.

Analyssa: Wow. I have never been on Vogue.

Riese: Oh yeah. I think Shane was on their website doing all of them.

Drew: Shout-out Emma Specter who was-

Riese: Yeah. It’s the same writer who gets all of us in Vogue.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. Well, I’m available to be in Vogue. One time I was in The Kansas City Star which was my hometown newspaper, that’s cool.

Riese: That’s similar. That’s similar to Vogue. They have a similar presence at Fashion Week.

Drew: Speaking of pictures, let’s go to Pictionary.

Analyssa: Oh that was really good. Mine was inappropriate conversations at inappropriate times because Dani is asking Bette about this at work.

Drew: There always has to be an event and there always has to be inappropriate conversations at the event. That’s the Gen Q way.

Riese: Yeah. Well, when else do you see your friends?

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: Well, I guess-

Drew: Recording a podcast.

Riese: Recording a podcast. The point is that Sophie and Finley are doing great.

Analyssa: They’re crushing.

Riese: At Pictionary. And Micah and Maribel are in a fight.

Drew: My favorite part of this fight, which just felt… No offense to the show but there aren’t a ton of times where I go, “This feels very recognizably trans to me.” But the back and forth of-

Riese: When Micah is like, “Why didn’t you ask me?”

Drew: Yeah. “Do you ever think that I might want to carry? Do you?” No.” I feel like I’ve watched friends have that exact exchange and it’s just so funny where it’s, “Don’t make assumptions about my relationship to my body and my gender.” and it’s like, “Well…” And they’re like, “Your assumption was correct but still, don’t make it.”

Analyssa: But don’t. Yeah. Exactly. It was so funny. Does Micah have any siblings?

Riese: Oh, I don’t know.

Drew: I know Micah has a mom that he doesn’t really get along with, and I know that Micah is trans and I know that he is-

Analyssa: The proud owner of that mermaid painting.

Drew: Uh huh.

Riese: Oh my god. The mermaid painting.

Analyssa: Probably. Oh, I also liked when he was like, “Have I mentioned that I’m 28?” Or something, and she’s like, “Yeah. You’ve said that a few times.”

Drew: How old is she?

Analyssa: I think she’s a few years older than them, right?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And I honestly think-

Riese: In the early 30s.

Analyssa: I honestly think Micah is a couple years younger than Sophie and Dani. Not by much but just a little bit.

Drew: 28 is my age. I’m almost 29.

Analyssa: I had the thought of that scene from Broad City where Ilana is-

Riese: Child bride.

Riese: Yeah. What am I? A child bride?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I think that two years ago I would’ve been like, “Wow, this is really early.” But now that I’ve entered this experience myself of attempting to get pregnant as a person over 40, I think everyone, if you’re 28 and you’re ready to start a family, just do it. Do it.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Yeah. If you’re 25, do it. Just do it. Because the older you get it is going to get more impossible and so, so expensive, and you cannot afford it. Just do it. Do it now. That’s my advice.

Drew: You’re going to create some lives here on To L And Back. Someone is driving listening to this and is just-

Riese: Make your relationship move a lot faster.

Analyssa: Yeah. There are calls going out all across this great nation.

Riese: Yeah, sorry, in advance, I want to apologize if this advice ruins anybody’s life.

Analyssa: Speaking of the fertility process…

Drew: Speaking of the fertility process, there’s a-

Analyssa: The circle of life.

Drew: There’s a Marcus Allenwood retrospective. This is only episode two, so I remain hopeful, but I really hope that all of Angie’s scenes aren’t in adult world. I really want her to be at college. I really want to take time-

Riese: She is. She will be.

Drew: Cool. I love having you here. I thought she was killing it in the suit.

Riese: Yeah, she looks great.

Analyssa: And I love seeing her with her sister again. They’re fun, again, sort of what you’re saying, it’s fun to see her with kids her age and being a teen.

Drew: And she says that she’s could be in her hoe phase. It was the cutest… I just was like, “Aw, sure. Yeah.”

Riese: Yeah. It’s cute that she bounced back so fast. Which I think is really a thing that speaks to the fact that she’s young.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: And she’s like, “Wow, I have a lot of time.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And is like, “It was my first day of college. It’s time to be out in the world.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Is this when we meet Alice’s date?

Analyssa: Yeah. So then Alice’s date also arrives. We’re in event time.

Riese: Yeah. Right.

Analyssa: Alice’s date shows up. She says that one of her hobbies is playing volleyball in a super exclusive league, which already had really bad vibes to me.

Riese: Which if, have you guys seen the NXVIM documentary…

Drew: I have not.

Analyssa: I have not.

Riese: Okay. So, that’s part of the cult. They play… Which at first you think, especially if you’re not watching the TV or just listening to it while doing other things around the house, you think that it’s a metaphor or something. But no, they literally have volleyball games all the time.

Analyssa: I thought that this actress character in the show was saying, “I play exclusive volleyball games.” Meaning, “We do weird sex stuff.” That’s really what I thought.

Riese: Right. No, it’s volleyball.

Analyssa: Alright.

Riese: Yeah. As part of NXVIM… Because I didn’t think they were literally going to be doing NXIVM, but they… Yeah. And she’s like, “My mentor is in jail.” When Keith Raniere is in jail.

Drew: Right. My question is, is it a thing with that cult to put a lot of ice in your wine? Look, I get that people put ice in their wine. I get this whole thing. But she was like, “I’m going to go get more ice for my wine.” Which theoretically, there was ice in her wine, it melted and now she wants more. That was… I wrote, “Red flag. Bad vibes.” And then right afterwards, Shane goes, “Several red flags.” And I was like, “Yes. I love this episode.”

Analyssa: Shane is also feeling, as Alice calls it, itchy.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah. She makes eyes with the cocktail waitress. I guess she’s feeling itchy probably because her girlfriend has just had the worst idea ever, which is to buy a bowling alley next to The Semi-Tropic to have lesbian bar number two.

Drew: Yeah. What does it say about me that I think I’m attracted to Shane for the first time? Shane on this season, I’m really feeling something there that I’ve never felt towards Shane.

Analyssa: Wow. We’d have to really get to the root of why you think that is before we could tell you what that means about you…

Drew: I wonder if it’s maybe that I’m dating someone who’s more masculine, in a Shane way, not in a… But I do wonder if that’s-

Analyssa: Interesting. Okay. You’re reversing into.

Drew: Yeah. Instead of doing the thing where you fall for the Shane… Not that Elise is at all like Shane in personality and energy, but just the gender presentation. And then instead I started more femme and have gone.
Analyssa: Yeah. I don’t know.

Drew: I’ve always liked tomboys though. I don’t know. But Shane, there’s… I don’t know. Shane is really doing it for me right now.

Analyssa: That’s fun.

Drew: Yeah. I hope she makes good choices or has sex with Kehlani if that’s considered a bad choice.

Analyssa: Either way.

Drew: But we go back to Pictionary, and Micah is very bad at it. And then we get into this argument about there’s a difference between talking to your sister versus talking to your friend. Which I would say that, as you were saying, you get one person, maybe two people who get to be your people. You have to always clarify, “This is the thing that I’m telling you, but you can’t tell anyone else.” And so yeah. Okay. But then Micah hasn’t told his mom, which would be fine theoretically, if he wasn’t going to propose the last episode. I was like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry.” He was going to propose. So, I was like, “Why did they have him going…”

It would’ve been interesting to me if last episode Micah was like, “I think Maribel is going to propose and I’m not ready. And I’m worried about that.” And then Micah being like, “I’m just not sure I want to get married yet.” Maribel was like, “I never want to get married. I want to have a kid.” And then that would’ve been, oh, so we’re setting up the foundation of Micah is 28, he feels young, whatever. But he was going to propose. He was going to propose before his mom knew that he was in the relationship and that didn’t bother him. But having a kid… That’s where I’m like…

Riese: I don’t think he is.

Drew: Oh, so the mom part doesn’t matter?

Riese: I think he’s just throwing things out there.

Drew: Right. Okay. That makes sense.

Riese: Just saying whatever because he’s freak panicking and he’s like, “Well, I haven’t even told my mom yet.” Which probably he already knew was a problem with the proposal.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: He also has to throw out all this stuff because they’re losing at Pictionary so bad.

Riese: Right. So bad. And Sophie and Finley are bonding. They’ve never been more in love. They’re being really cute. They’re having a nice sober evening together and they’re just losing.

Analyssa: And yeah, the reason that Micah and Mari are losing is because the communication is bad already. You know what I mean?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s a metaphor.

Drew: Yeah. It is a metaphor. Speaking of games, Bette and Tina do a little role play of their first meeting and it’s…

Analyssa: Did The L Word historians know from the first line that that’s what they were doing?

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: That’s what I figured.

Riese: I didn’t until a couple in, I was like, “Oh.” I wrote, “Oh, they’re doing a weird role play.” And then they started doing the earring thing and I was like, “Oh right. It’s that.”

Drew: Yeah. Do we have anything to say about this?

Riese: That was cute for them.

Analyssa: Yeah. And there’s just nothing these two love more than looking at each other and looking at a piece of art. You know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They just like to look up. I wish the listeners could see my face, ’cause I think I’m doing a really good-

Drew: Yeah, I think you are. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. You looked like you were looking at God.

Analyssa: Dani gazes upon Bette and Tina looking in love and she remembers that she’s in love with Gigi.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s the power of-

Riese: And I remember that I am in love with Gigi also.

Analyssa: That’s the power of Bette and Tina’s love. It can remind other people that they too are in love.

Riese: Yeah. And also Bette has great hair. Gigi has great hair. So if you’re looking at Bette thinking about hair, then you’re going to think, I want Gigi’s hair on my body and they’re going to call her.

Analyssa: And then you’re going to apologize for how things have been going and ask her-

Riese: So that you will have relations with Nat.

Analyssa: If that’s what she wants.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: And then you ask Gigi to come to the opening. The hair on these two people. Dani’s hair. She looks gorgeous at this event, by the way. We didn’t say that. But the little sweetheart neckline dress is very good. And her hair is really good.

Riese: Yeah. Everyone is looking great this evening, I think. I don’t think I had any complaints.

Drew: Tina and Bette are talking to Angie and being like, “This is real. We are going to…” Whatever. And Angie is like, “I’m an adult. It’s cool.”

Analyssa: I like that at first, Angie is a surly teen about it. She’s like, “Whatever. I know. It’s fine.” And then by the end, she’s like, “Actually, I’m very adult and mature.” I liked that.

Drew: And then some guy chats her up.

Analyssa: Oh yeah. And makes a joke about Bette, which is very funny to me.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s just the one thing you can step in at this event.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: You could’ve talked about anything else.

Riese: Yeah. Also, I’m confused about his entire deal and his friends’ entire deal. Is he an art thief?

Analyssa: Do they go to all the gallery openings? I hope so.

Drew: I think that… This is my theory. I think that they-

Riese: They’re sneaker heads.

Drew: What? No.

Riese: No. Okay.

Drew: That his friend is into art and so goes to these things and is trying to get his art shown, and so he needs to talk to gallery owners. Meanwhile, he goes with him because they are also hooking up, but they have an open situation.

Riese: Wow. Interesting.

Drew: And so, he’s off looking for other people. His friend and lover also only needs art. Only needs him and art.

Analyssa: If there’s one thing we can do, it’s assign a really good backstory to a one day guest player on The L Word.

Riese: Yeah. Oh this man will be back.

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: Fun. Back at the other gathering of friends elsewhere.

Drew: Finley, Finley, Finley.

Analyssa: Micah and Sophie clear out in a way that simply I would not if I were at this event. If I were Sophie, I’d be like, “I think I’m just going to sit in this room the whole night. Thanks.”

Riese: Yeah. I would sit there and just… I would be like in Veep the way that Gary just stands behind and is just whispering. And that’s what I would be doing all night to Finley.

Analyssa: Finley tries to mediate the fight between Micah and Maribel. But honestly, just from a… Not a script writing dialogue level, but from Finley trying to talk to another person, I was like, “What is she trying to say even?”

Riese: She was trying to say, “I’m not close to my mom. So, I might not tell my mom things that maybe Micah doesn’t tell his mom things.” But also I don’t think him not telling his mom is really the issue here.

Drew: Mind your business.

Analyssa: Yeah. Right. Yeah. She’s jumped so many levels into the fight instead of just being like, “Hey, whoa.” Me, personally, I would’ve been like, “Weird night. Are you…” Whatever.

Riese: Yeah. How are you feeling? Whatever. You’re right. I think what people like Finley, it’s incredible to have that type of social confidence that whatever the situation, you’re going to charm them.

Analyssa: Totally.

Riese: But she’s not correct about that. She’s not always going to charm.

Drew: No. She should have taken this moment alone with Maribel to be like, “I get why you don’t like me. And I’m not going to argue with that. I just hope that the more time we spend together that…”

Riese: I can prove myself.

Analyssa: And this night seems really intense for you separately. Are you good? Do you want… Whatever you need, I can be out of your way, et cetera, et cetera, instead they go into a really weird-

Drew: Terrible. Which then leads to Maribel saying, in front of everyone, that she liked rainbow texter.

Analyssa: Yep. Yeah. She liked who Sophie was hooking up with while Finley was in rehab.

Drew: And then we cue some on the nose lyrics.

Analyssa: We didn’t talk about it because we can’t talk about every single time it happens, but when Tina and Bette kissed and the lyrics were like, “I feel the attraction.” I was like, “Yeah baby.” Boy, do they ever.

Drew: And then Sophie refers to them being the person that she hooked up with. And Finley says there were multiple and Sophie says no, the singular, which I have two things to say about this. One, this is the second time that there’s been a character who uses they/them pronouns who is off… Was just referenced but isn’t a character. And the second thing is, wouldn’t it be better if it was multiple people instead of one? In my opinion, if I’m taking a break with someone and I want to get back and it’s, oh they were hooking up with a bunch of other people, okay, that’s fine. If they were hooking up with one person consistently that whole time, I would be a little bit more… Okay. I hope… Whatever. So, that’s also interesting. Those are my two thoughts.

Riese: What I wanted them to do, what they didn’t do in this conversation was reference the Friends thing. That we are on a break. The Ross and Rachel thing. I was like, “That just feels like…” I don’t think anyone even in real life could talk about being on a break without bringing that up, do you know what I mean?

Drew: Where do you stand on that?

Riese: I think it was okay because they were on a break.

Drew: I think it was okay too.

Analyssa: I also think it was okay.

Drew: Which I hate to agree with Ross over Rachel but…

Analyssa: Yeah, far be it from me to say Ross was right ever.

Drew: But in that situation, he was right.

Analyssa: But he was right. But I do think-

Drew: Shoutout copy girl.. Oh, I hate how much I know that fucking show.

Analyssa: I do think that what this conversation does really well is at least note that even if it’s technically right and allowed, it can still hurt and there’s still stuff to talk about. And neither of them handle it well in the immediate aftermath because why would you? But I was like, “Oh, this is actually a pretty honest conversation to be like, “I know that you didn’t do anything wrong, but it still fucking hurt my feelings.”” And also, they didn’t even really talk about this, but finding out from your sister in front of our friends, I’m embarrassed. I’m like tender. I just…

Riese: Mari does like this person better.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And knows them.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. That is the thing, is they were around. It’s not like Sophie was just going off and hooking it… It doesn’t seem like just, “U up?” Texts. You know what I mean? It’s-

Drew: It’s a, “U up rainbow.” Text.

Analyssa: The rainbow is actually indicative of them being just a little more serious than a, “U up?” Text.

Drew: I do think that the only thing that Finley did wrong here is be like, “And you need to apologize for this.” I agree, being like, “You didn’t do anything wrong, but I am having feelings about this and I need a second.” Totally fair. Totally fair. It’s maybe the best that Finley has ever communicated about anything ever, and then just went a step too far.

Riese: Well, ’cause also she knows she can’t just go to the other room and drink.

Drew: So she calls Tess.

Riese: And Tess blows her off.

Analyssa: Is Tess Finley’s sponsor? Does Finley have a sponsor?

Riese: I’m very confused.

Analyssa: I’m so concerned for her.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: I think she needs a sponsor.

Drew: If Tess was her sponsor and Tess was going to an event and so couldn’t drop everything, what would a sponsor do in that situation? A good one?

Analyssa: It depends on the sponsor, but I do think they would say, “Try calling someone else.” And they also might say, “Text me your feelings.” Or, “Go…” They would offer a couple more, I think, tangible things, which either means there just wasn’t time for something like that, it’s a small detail, or Tess isn’t Finley’s sponsor, but Finley is using her as a defacto sponsor, which happens a lot when you get sober. You’re like, “Oh, that’s another sober person. I’m going to text or call them because they’re easy.” I’ve done that to people. I’ve had friends do that to me. And it’s great. But it’s not… If Finley is going the sponsor route, which not everyone does, and that’s also a viable option, then she needs a firm, a solid presence who would be like, “I’m stepping into this event. Let me call you back in 15 minutes once I’m there, have said hi and can step out for a second.” Or, “Do XYZ steps.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right. Yeah. I felt like Tess just… I don’t know. Even just as a friend, I felt like she blew her off a little in a way that was weird.

Drew: Yeah. But Tess isn’t getting blown off, because Shane says, “Let’s do it. Let’s open that second bar.” Which clearly is just in response to Alice being like, “You’re getting itchy.” Which is the terrible time to agree to… That’s not-

Riese: That’s what Shane always does.

Drew: Shane always does that.

Analyssa: Yeah. Shane is like, “Oh you think that I’m bad at committing? Let me double down and then-”

Riese: Yeah, let’s get an apartment.

Drew: And let’s get married.

Riese: Let’s get married.

Analyssa: Let’s get an apartment that I can bone someone else in.

Riese: I know. It’s only, we’re just five steps away from her fucking the realtor on the carpet.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: Watch out. I hope the inspector isn’t hot Because…

Drew: Which of Shane’s exes do you wish had worked out?

Analyssa: I really was a Molly girl.

Drew: I was going to say Molly!

Analyssa: I was a Molly girl.

Drew: I really liked Molly.

Analyssa: Yeah. And I liked them together.

Drew: I really like their dynamic.

Riese: Well, you know who I’m going to say.

Drew: Jenny.

Riese: And I can say with confidence that almost every single person listening to this podcast will disagree with me.

Drew: That’s beautiful.

Riese: And yet I’m willing to stand up, stand alone, be brave, and be not the way that it played out in the show because they totally retconned Jenny that season. But the way that it played out in my head, which is important.

Analyssa: That is important.

Riese: Perhaps the most important, I’d liked her and Jenny to have made it work. I love Carmen, but I don’t know if Carmen and Shane were perfect together.

Drew: Right. That’s what I was feeling. I still would love to edit together a two hour movie version of season six and I think I could make it good.

Riese:Oh yeah?

Drew: I really think so.

Riese: Wow. God, that’s the kind of project I could really get lost in.

Drew: I wouldn’t do it because it would take me so much time, and I hardly have time for the things I need to do. But it would end with the scene where Shane and Jenny are kissing and at The Planet, and everyone is laughing at them. And that would be the end. And you’d have to do some things so you still get the dance. You can make it… I have an idea, but I’m not going to ever do this. So, you can just have to imagine it yourself.

Riese: Okay. I have. And I loved it.

Drew: Thank you.

Analyssa: It was amazing.

Drew: Thanks.

Analyssa: Rated it on Letterboxd.

Riese: I give it a Rotten Tomatoes…

Analyssa: Certified fresh.

Riese: Certified fresh. Yeah.

Drew: Speaking of original cast members, Bette is giving a little speech and it is nice, but it also-

Riese: I zoned out, I think.

Drew: It also is about… It’s a speech about Marcus Allenwood, and his wife and daughter and also Angie is there. There are people with deep connections to him, he’s recently died. He’s this great artist. It does become very much about Tina, but you know what? Bette is going to Bette.

Riese: And she talks about how his work was marginalized and wasn’t shown in this capacity before. It’s really sad.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s a moving speech that then turns very personal to Bette actually instead of to Marcus. But it does hit for everybody listening, it seems like, they get a lot of reaction coverage and everyone seems to be affected by it.

Drew: And during it, Dani texts Gigi again, and I was like, “Babe, you need to…” Oh God, it’s very stressful. I don’t like when people…

Riese: But why hasn’t Gigi responded?

Drew: I don’t know. But maybe she’s driving in a car and you shouldn’t be distracting her. Maybe I can tell the future. But also, I just think that if you haven’t heard back, then it’s, okay then she hasn’t gotten into your voicemail. People who don’t… I don’t know.

Analyssa: We’ve struck a nerve with Drew.

Drew: Right. I just feel like it’s different when- Dani was wrong. Dani has owned up to the fact that they got into a fight this morning and she was wrong about it. So, if you call and leave a voicemail already, pretty intense and-

Riese: Yeah. No one leaves a voicemail.

Drew: No, send a voice memo. And…

Riese: Yeah. Send a telegram.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Send a singing bird.

Drew: Sure. I don’t know.

Riese: An owl.

Drew: It’s fine. I was just having a bad feeling, anyways.

Riese: I was like, “Why hasn’t Gigi responded?”

Drew: Okay. Well-

Analyssa: I didn’t clock any of this incredible. I was just like, “Okay, she’s trying to get in touch.”

Drew: Those are the three experiences. The actress, we learn that she is in fact…

Riese: Yeah, she tries to get Alice to sign up for one of their executive success seminars, which is again in NXVIM…

Drew: Do they exist still?

Riese: They still exist, but he’s in prison. So, that puts a stamp on things. But he still has some followers who are still into it. The worst character in all of Battlestar Galactica, Cally. Did you guys watch Battlestar?

Analyssa: No.

Riese: Oh God, the agony of being the only one in the room who watched Battlestar. Anyway, that bitch is still into it.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: There were a lot of apologies this episode.

Drew: Yeah, there were. Which I’m proud of our friends starting to apologize a little bit more.

Analyssa: I felt like this was a very grown up acting episode.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I enjoyed it.

Riese: Yeah. Angie is growing up. Everyone is growing up. It’s like a garden.

Analyssa: Yeah. Once the youngest person starts growing up, you’re like, “Oh, I guess maybe it’s time to get my life together.”

Riese: Yeah. But actually, I do think that this show is doing something interesting with figuring out that once you’re older, you could still suck and have room to improve.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: So, Maribel is the one who’s apologizing and she’s like, “I don’t want to be pushy.” She does continue to be pushy. Micah is like, “I want to have a baby with you.” Which again, I don’t know, but…

Riese: I’m happy for them.

Drew: Me too.

Analyssa: Do it now. Let’s see where these crazy kids end up.

Drew: And then Sophie and Finley makeup as well. She leaves a little cute looking-

Riese: Oh yeah, that was cute.

Drew: …Note. And then…

Analyssa: I am very happy for them. It was very cute. However, Sophie gets into bed and wakes Finley up from sleep to have a reconciliation conversation. And the way that, that to me is grounds for immediate divorce. We’re not even married. Get out of my house.

Drew: No. Let’s get married so we can get divorced.

Analyssa: I’m sleeping. Let’s talk in the morning. Let’s have a cute little sleepy like, “Babe, that note was so cute. I love you. Let’s kiss.”

Drew: Yeah. What you do is you cuddle up and so then if they sort of wake up-

Riese: They are still awake a little bit.

Drew: And they’ll feel it and be like…

Analyssa: Sophie basically is like, “Hey, hey.” No. But they have a very sweet thing about how… I got a little emotional. Finley says, “Sometimes I don’t know what you see in me.” And I don’t know, that really got me. First of all, that spoke to a very special place in my deranged psyche. But also, Sophie is just really sweet about it. She’s like, “You’re my guy. That’s it. You make my heart beat fast.” And they just have a very cute-

Drew: It is cute.

Analyssa: I don’t know why it hit so hard for me, but it really did.

Riese: I think all of us feel that way sometimes, right? No?

Drew: No.

Riese: About I don’t know what you see in me?

Drew: I never feel that.

Riese: Really?

Drew: It’s not that I think I’m so great. I just feel like if my partner has chosen to be with me, then… People who are all types of people will have people who fall in love with them. So, it’s not that I’m so great so that’s why my partner loves me. But I am just like, “If we’re going to be together, I have to trust that you love me.”

Analyssa: Okay. Riese and I are going to have a separate conversation.

Riese: I have just been burned so hard that I, at this point in my life, need a lot of reassurance.

Drew: I need that early. I have no faith that people… When I’m first dating someone or when I’m first have feelings for someone. When Elise and I were flirting for a year on the internet, I didn’t think that we were actually flirting. I was like, “I think she just wants to be friends.” I feel very insecure as far as whether someone actually is interested in me in a sexual relationship sort of way. Once I’m in a… Maybe we could say that Finley and Sophie aren’t really stable right now, but when I’m in a steady relationship, that’s when I feel most secure with the person.

Analyssa: Interesting. I think I’m completely the opposite.

Riese: Yeah. Same.

Analyssa: If I think even we are a little bit flirting, I’m like, “They’re fucking obsessed with me. I’m the absolute coolest person this person has ever met and they love me.” And then once we’re… This is actually something I’m talking to my therapist about, just so you guys know, but once we’re-

Riese: Good to know. I had therapy today, in case anyone is wondering.

Analyssa: Mine is on Mondays.

Drew: I can’t afford one anymore.

Analyssa: Once we’re in a relationship and you start seeing the real person, then I’m like, “Ooh, hope you still feel that way.” That’s how it feels to me. And I think that the Finley line for me hit especially hard because it’s post getting sober. And I didn’t have a partner when I got sober. I started dating Louis in February, which I’d been sober for a little over a year, which was critical to me. But I remember that even with my friends and talking about getting sober and just being a different… Feeling differently about myself and being like, “Ooh, I hope they still like this version.”

Riese: Want to hang.

Analyssa: Yeah. I think that is… I know why that line hit from me really hard.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Anyway, I love them. I hope they work out.

Riese: Yeah, me too. But I worry that they won’t because this is The L Word.

Analyssa: Because this is The L Word.

Drew: From reconciliation to drama. The new happiness of Bette and Tina is-

Riese: Immediately dashed.

Drew: Is immediately dashed because Bette is like, “Don’t leave.” And Tina is like, “Once again, you don’t support me having a career.” Which is both fair and also, okay but also this person who you’ve just had sex with for the first time in a decade is just being like, “I want you to stay.”

Analyssa: Right. They’ve been kissing for three days again, I can-

Riese: But I think it’s the years and years and years and years that some it’s triggering and immediately Tina is like, “Here we go again. You want me to stay.” ‘Cause also she can’t stay. Murdoch Mysteries waits for no man.

Analyssa: She has a hit Canadian television show to get back to. And the other thing that we see soon is, and from the first episode we even know, is she’s clearly gone through so much therapy and so much guided meditation kind of stuff. And she’s like, “I’m firm in my power and I’m actually going to call out bullshit when I feel it.” You know what I mean? And I think that’s-

Drew: No, I appreciate it. I did write down, “Jesus, how are we still doing?” Which is probably how Tina felt. And then Bette’s… Everyone. So, who is it? It’s Shane, Alice and Tess encourage Bette to chase after Tina, which let’s do it. We do it. It had such season finale energy, and it was episode two, and I was like, “Every episode’s a season finale. Let’s go. Let’s go, let’s go, let’s go.”

Riese: Yeah. Well, I loved that she asked that… She was like, “Oh God, I did it.” She realized what she did right away and then she was like, “Oh my God, I have to be the one to go. I have to go to Canada.” Which Canada is wonderful. Drew goes there all the time.

Drew: I do.

Riese: It’s beautiful. Wow, I bet every part of Canada.

Drew: Because I have been… I’ve spent so much time in Toronto now, when Tina says to her Uber driver, “Take me to terminal one.” I was like, “You are not flying Southwest. Air Canada is terminal six. You are not flying.” The only possible airline that she could be taking, I think, from terminal one LAX to Toronto is Southwest. I’m sure this is thrilling for anyone who doesn’t live in LA. And I was like, “It’s terminal six.”

Riese: No, when she said terminal one, I was like, “No one goes there.”

Analyssa: Terminal one is just absolutely not correct. I fly Southwest back to Kansas City a lot. So, I know Terminal one.

Riese: The point is that Bette realizes that she should go. She needs to be the one to go with Tina. This is bad news for Vogue.

Drew: This is bad news for Vogue. It’s bad news for the dude who’s chatting up Angie because he’s once again chatting up Angie, and then Bette bursts out in chaos and is like, “I need my daughter to drive me recklessly through the city.” And then Angie kisses our nice man. A fun little thing. Love it.

Riese: Yeah. She’s impulsive.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: We’re all making decisions.

Riese: Yeah, we’re all making choices. We’re all thriving. We’re all buying a second bar.

Drew: Driving, driving, driving. And I just was like, “Let this girl go back to college. You’re going to get into an accident.”

Riese: But this is so thrilling. This is like Imagine Me & You.

Drew: I know. It is very Imagine Me & You.

Analyssa: I haven’t seen that. It’s on my romcom project, everyone.

Drew: Okay. Okay.

Analyssa: Calm down.

Riese: I just got goosebumps for some reason, which I don’t think is the right reaction to something horrifying, but it happened.

Analyssa: My thing is, in what universe would you put an 18 year old behind the wheel of the car in a serious run? We’re going somewhere.

Drew: I would trust Shane.

Analyssa: Yes, Drew, maybe Shane, but also then I was like, “Oh, well maybe they were drinking and were doing something responsible.”

Riese: Wouldn’t that be wild?

Analyssa: And were doing something responsible. Tess is sober. Tess could drive.

Drew: Right. Tess could drive.

Riese: Oh yeah, Tess could drive. Right, but she’s high on life because she’s thinking about that second bar.

Drew: That’s a good point. That’s a really good point.

Riese: She’s thinking about Jenny’s.

Analyssa: But whatever, we’re having a teenager drive.

Drew: We’re doing a thing. So Tina is listening to a meditation app. That’s having Angie speed. Meanwhile, Gigi is texting Dani.

Riese: The minute they went to Gigi in her car, I was like, “That bitch is getting T-boned.”

Analyssa: Gigi singing in the car… This happened in season one when Dani and Sophie were driving to go look at wedding locations. I think I said on the pod, anytime a character is behind the wheel and they’re having a fun chat in the car and I can see through the windows that the camera is outside… No.

Drew: I’ve seen Glee.

Riese: Oh, yeah. Exactly. I was like, “We’ve all been here before. You’re going to Finn and Rachel’s wedding, you’re going to get T-boned.”

Analyssa: There’s a hundred Grey’s Anatomy episodes like this.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Every time.

Riese: There was something about the angle or it’s about… Is it about that she’s texting? But as soon as they got… Well, first of all, that is unnecessary. There’s no reason we need to see Gigi driving to the event and texting, right?

Analyssa: Because nothing is happening.

Riese: Nothing is happening.

Drew: So, we know that… Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I don’t know what it is, but there is something about… I think to me, it’s the singing, her being in the car and kind of vibing to the music. I was like, “Something bad is going to happen.”

Riese: Six Feet Under also, that’s a really good example of when you see the person in the car having good time and then they get T-boned.

Drew: Yes. I can’t think of a better metaphor for The L Word: Generation Q than Bette and Tina having a grand romantic gesture as new character, new beloved fan favorite character, Gigi, is murdered.

Riese: Murdered by a truck.

Analyssa: Driving to her doom.

Drew: I would like to clarify, I don’t think she’s actually dead because they wouldn’t do that because people would-

Analyssa: That would be crazy.

Drew: It would be an act of self-harm by Marja-Lewis Ryan. It would be truly the wildest thing ever. So, I don’t think that she’s dead. But it still felt very apt to me in the sense that I was… We all would love to watch Gigi and Dani have a fun little romantic moment, but they’re like, “No, Bette and Tina get the grand romantic moment.” And it’s like, “Okay.”

Riese: And Gigi gets a car in the head.

Analyssa: Yeah. Trade offer.

Riese: And of course they drive by the accident and they’re like, “Oh, I hope nobody is hurt.” Which, come on guys, couldn’t somebody in the car be like, “Wait, you just said I hope nobody is hurt. That means somebody is hurt and we know them.”

Analyssa: Yep.

Drew: Yep.

Riese: I hate it when they do that in TV shows. It’s effective but it makes me feel emotions I don’t want to feel when they’ll drive past the accident and they know the person in the accident. I feel upset.

Analyssa: Well and because later they’re going to find out that Gigi was in an accident at that intersection and they’re going to be like, “Oh my God. We were in the car chanting at Bette to go get Tina. This is…”

Drew: The episode is called LA…

Riese: Los Angeles Traffic.

Drew: Los Angeles Traffic. I will say, this is pretty dark, but something that helps me in living in Los Angeles and dealing with traffic is that oftentimes there is traffic because of an accident. And I am just like, “Look, it sucks that I’m here. It sucks that this city is poorly run, poorly built, that we don’t have more public transit, all these things. Absolutely. But in this exact moment, there is someone who’s probably hurt or at the very least having a day and that person isn’t me. And hopefully it’s not someone who I know, and also I feel bad for this stranger and so take a deep breath.” That helps me.

Analyssa: That’s interesting.

Drew: Sometimes.

Analyssa: That’s on par with Bette’s, “We’re all going to die. What’s a bumper.” In that it’s pretty well adjusted but also there’s something a little bit sick about it.

Drew: Absolutely.

Analyssa: Gorgeous. I got the vibe of a season finale when they’re all in the back seat or all in the car and they decide to… They convince Bette to run and she’s like, “Time to give a speech to my best friends.”

Drew: Yeah. What was that about?

Riese: Oh yeah. And she’s talking about she loves them like she’s never going to see them, and I did have to spend my… Okay. I have a recurring nightmare about once a week that I’m about to go on a trip and I do not have anything but the clothes on my back, and I don’t have my suitcase, I didn’t pack and I’m not allowed to pack. I’m not allowed to bring anything. It happens all the time. And I was like, “Bette is running head first into my nightmare. She get aboard a…” And I know that this was one of those things, it’s TV. It’s sort of like Finley interrupting the wedding. We just have to completely suspend our disbelief because there’s no way that Bette Porter is going to fucking get on a plane in her evening gown with a purse.

Drew: Does she have a passport?

Riese: Right? Oh yeah, exactly. But that’s fine.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: This suspension of disbelief. But it did bring up a lot for me personally. I was very stressed out about Bette not having her vitamins.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Or hair mask that I know she uses.

Drew: If you could only bring three things with you on an international flight, what would the three things that you would bring?

Riese: Is my phone one of those things?

Drew: You already have the stuff you’d have day to day walking around.

Riese: Oh. So, I have my phone and my wallet and a little vial of medications?

Drew: You carry that with you all the time? Because that would absolutely… I’ve thought about this sometimes where I’m like, “I would need to get my meds.” I would need to have either… Either I need to be wearing my glasses or I need to have a contact case plus my glasses. And then third thing, I think those are the two things I really need. Otherwise, I’d probably be okay.

Riese: So probably a sweatshirt and a tank top so that I never have to be an uncomfortable temperature.

Analyssa: My thing is that I simply could not fly in the outfit that Bette is.

Riese: Absolutely not.

Analyssa: I am so weird about the things that I wear on a plane. I have to have full… This is actually just revealing a lot about minor issues, but I have to have full sleeves and pants. I don’t like my skin being exposed to the air of an airplane. It really makes me itch. So, I would really be screwed. Bette is wearing a thing that reveals her shoulder. Horrible.

Riese: Even dress shoes.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s not going to be comfortable, but-

Drew: I like the spontaneity of it. There is something that’s fun to me about the idea of…

Riese: Yeah. She’s also so rich, she could just buy new clothes.

Drew: Well, that’s-

Analyssa: Yeah. And she’s going to get to the airport and just purchase a flight-

Riese: Yeah. And then when she goes to Canada, she can take Tylenol with codeine if she wants to right over the counter. So, she runs.

Drew: Yeah. So, she does that. And then the episode ends.

Riese: The music plays.

Analyssa: Okay. This cover of Suddenly I See did have me… I was grinning. I’m grinning now. I was so amped. I just love-

Riese: I love the random times they choose to use real music.

Analyssa: I love a silly, grand gesture. I don’t know, man. I’ve watched 45 weeks of rom-coms. I’m primed for this. I wrote, “This made me a Bettina shipper. Bye.”

Drew: I think I just am so disengaged from… I don’t feel any sort of negative feelings about it, but I just don’t really care that much.

Riese: Oh. I feel like my moms are getting back together and I’m so happy for them.

Analyssa: And I’m just so simple that a person running to a loved one, running to someone they say they love and they just “figured out that they love” and a song is swelling, I’m near tears.

Drew: It’s a classic.

Riese: Oh, I also appreciated that when Bette was like, “I love you so much.” And Tina is like, “Yeah, I know. That’s not the problem.” I was like, “That’s good. We are all changing. We’re growing here. We’re all changing and growing.”

Analyssa: And there is a big admission from Bette of, “I would give everything up.” I realize this is a grand gesture. She’s saying a lot of stuff, but-

Riese: She’s going to work remotely. We all know that.

Analyssa: She’s still going to do work.

Drew: They have art in Toronto.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Franklin will be shipping her laptop overnight.

Analyssa: But it does feel like a big life realization of, “Oh, the thing that matters to me most right now is this.” It’s wild that that’s happening when Angie is 18, but…

Riese: That’s good timing though. They’ve got Angie into college just in time.

Drew: I think it’s great for Angie if her moms could both be in Toronto. I don’t know what the season is going to do. I don’t know if actually Bette is going to be living in Toronto. Excited to find out.

Riese: If I was going to Toronto to be with my beloved Tina. I would rather be the Tina in this situation. I’d rather be Tina being with Bette, I don’t want to be Bette being with Tina, even though I feel like I am Bette as a person in terms of emotionally stunted but powerful in my career.

Drew: I’m trying to figure out if I should live in LA or in Toronto. Luckily, either way I don’t have to be with Tina, but yeah, I don’t know. Does Bette know that you can’t spend more than six months there if you don’t have a visa?

Riese: But that’s not important right now.

Analyssa: It waits for no man.

Riese: Yeah. Also, I hope they go to Tim Hortons because there generally is no Tim Hortons in LA.

Drew: Yeah, obviously there’s not. It’s a very Canadian thing.

Riese: They’re all over the Midwest.

Drew: Oh really?

Analyssa: Really?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: They’re all over Michigan at least.

Analyssa: Oh, I’ve never seen them.
Drew:
I know that there’s some in New York.

Riese: Michigan is kind of like Canada.

Drew: It is truly anything within a few miles of the border.

Analyssa: Yeah. Maybe it’s like how In-N-Out expands to Nevada and surrounding areas. It’s only so far from the border.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I didn’t know. I thought they’re all over Michigan and I think there are some in New York. So, I just thought…. I was looking and I was like, “I could really go for some Timbits right now.” Well, fat chance the only way I’m going to get a Tim Bit is to marry Tina.

Drew: There are donut holes from other places. Tim Hortons isn’t very good. Sorry to…

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: Yeah, it’s not good, but it’s cheap and I enjoy it. It’s my special treat to get myself some Timbits and some iced coffee and to just eat them at my desk like a queen.

Analyssa: There is one tiny button on this episode, which is that Dani is trying to reschedule the Vogue interview that Bette has blown off. And then of course Dani’s phone rings. Nat is Gigi’s emergency contact, has been informed that Gigi has been in an accident

Drew: And has died.

Riese: And then I teared up against by will.

Analyssa: Yeah, I was like… And then that’s the episode.

Riese: That’s the episode.

Drew: There was a moment where I was worried she was dead and then I was like, “No, that would be the wildest choice ever.”

Riese: No way.

Drew: But I was scared.

Riese: Well, Carol, what did you think of the episode? Carol, you shed all… I just cleaned the couch and you shed all over it. So, obviously she had a lot of feelings about the episode, but mostly she had a lot of feelings about Drew.

Analyssa: Guys, I liked this episode. I had fun.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: No one tell anyone, and everybody listening, you get one more person to tell this to, but I watched it at my day job. Got paid my salary to watch this episode. And honestly, I was thrilled. I was so excited. I was nervous that somebody who I worked with was going to look over my shoulder while passing by and be like, “What the fuck are you watching?”

Riese: You’d be like, “Pictionary.”

Analyssa: Yeah. But that was really honestly the only thing that was not overall enjoyable about this episode to me.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. The only thing that wasn’t enjoyable for me is Tess convincing Shane to buy the bar in a way that I was like, “This is not okay.”

Analyssa: But it’s nice to just have an annoying character instead of be irritated at a storyline. Do you know what I mean?

Drew: I would say that my favorite parts of this episode were the more low key moments. Some of the just friends hanging out, banter, love, Alice dating a wacky person. I don’t know if I’d call someone in a real life cult that did a lot of harm wacky, but that’s a very Alice thing. There was a lot of really fun stuff. The more serious things, like some of the fights, some of the running to the airport, I’m sorry, didn’t work as well for me, but not in any grand way. Just in the sense that I was kind of like, “Okay.” But overall, solid episode, thumb up.

Analyssa: I’m thumbs up. Both.

Riese: Thumbs up, thumbs up for me.

Drew: That’s five total thumbs. That’s a five out of six thumbs.

Riese: Five out of six thumbs.

Drew: That’s pretty good for an episode.

Riese: Yeah. So, you can put that thumb in your butt and smoke it. That’s what I always say, right? That’s what they say in Canada.

Analyssa: Tim Hortons.

Riese: Tim Hortons. Get your Timbits while you can, ladies.

Drew: They have Timbiebs now, which is a Justin Bieber themed donut hole. I don’t really know what that means.

Riese: Does it look like Justin Bieber?

Analyssa: That was recently?

Drew: When I was there.

Analyssa: Does Justin Bieber have…

Riese: Can you go there and mail me one?

Drew: I don’t know if it would be good.

Riese: Just one? Can you have Elise mail me a Justin Bieber donut hole?

Drew: I will see what’s possible… You can order food from Russ & Daughters in New York to California if you have a ton of money and are Jewish. I don’t think you have to be Jewish, but-

Analyssa: Barney’s Greengrass does it too.

Riese: Yeah, I think you have to be Jewish.

Drew: But yeah. So, I’ll look into if I can send you Timbiebs or you can just come visit.

Analyssa: Does Justin Bieber have current cultural cache, aside from having just married Hailey Bieber four years ago?

Drew: I think in Canada. No offense, Canada, I love you. You’re basically my home now.

Riese: Oh, my God, someone in Pasadena has a business called Tim Hortons Gate Repair. How dare they?

Analyssa: Wow.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: What a mislead.

Riese: Wow.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L And Back: Generation Q Edition. One of two podcasts brought to you by autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at To L And Back, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by The Talented B Sidwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JAXKO. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram at @laurentaylorklein. You can follow Drew everywhere at @draw_gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram at @analocaa with two As, and on Twitter at @analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere at @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this ep, let’s hear some keywords from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1, queen-

Riese: Queen of England.

Drew: Oh!

Riese: Did you also say queen?

Drew: I said queen.

Analyssa: The only word I could come up with was queen, but I don’t have a reason for it.

Riese: Oh, my reason is that I was watching The Crown.

Drew: Oh, my reason is because running after your ex-wife’s Uber on the way to the airport is “A Crazy Little Thing Called Love.”

Analyssa: Nice. Wow. Okay. I don’t have a reason.

Drew: We’ve never done that. We’re really vibing.

Riese: Wow. The vibe is good. The energy is so good.

Analyssa: Yeah, the energy is great.

Riese: Sparkling.

Analyssa: Sparkling. Yeah. It’s like a rainbow emoji on the end of a “U up?” text.

Drew: It really is that.

Riese: Or ice in your Chardonnay.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: Yep. Volleyball.

Analyssa: Volleyball.

Drew: Well, I think that’s it, but what a delight. I’m going to go run after my ex-wife.

Riese: Me too.

“To L And Back: Generation Q Edition” Podcast Episode 301: Last Year

Hello again! Did you miss us? Did you, like us, fret that this beloved television program would not return? Most importantly, did you miss The L Word: Generation Q? Then boy do we have a treat for you! After a quick one year time jump, the gang is back, and they’re looking to find The One this season, among other pressing concerns like raising enough money for the MS Society. That’s right, it’s the season premiere and we’ve got a big event: a fundraiser at Dana’s.

In other big events of the episode: Finley returns from rehab and sober living, Micah wants to marry Mari, and yes okay of COURSE we have the long awaited conclusion to Tina showing up at Bette’s doorstep. Will these two crazy kids finally make it work?

A black button that says listen on Apple Podcasts in purple and white lettering

A black button says Listen on Spotify in white and green text

SHOW NOTES

+ Riese’s recap for Episode 301: Last Year
+ The Instagram post that clued “Q titles” for this season
+ If you needed a refresher about the original basketball episode
+ Riese’s review of Queer as Folk, from whence we recognize Chris Renfro
+ More information about Venus signs
+ If Shane had cut Kehla Ivy’s hair, they could have made this iconic list of homoerotic haircuts
+ This is the (joke!) tweet that Drew sent me
+ Once again a plug to follow me on Letterboxd where I’m doing a rom com viewing project this year
+ Go re-read the Dating Downloads, since there aren’t any more dating apps to review

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

All: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: That was pretty good. It’s been a long time.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I sounded like I was reciting it, because I was.

Riese: Yeah, we’re back, bitches. So excited.

Drew: How have you both been? It’s been…

Analyssa: Wait, okay. Can someone tell me actually, when was the last time we recorded this podcast? I was thinking about it and I can’t remember. It’s just that so much has happened, which, you know?

Riese: That’s what happens. Time passes and things happen and…

Analyssa: And so much happens and so much change happens. And aren’t we just going to talk about that later? But more importantly…

Riese: Well also there was this whole period of time after, how long did it take for them to renew the show? Like six months?

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: That was very stressful for me.

Drew: Yeah. We thought it was going to get canceled. So the show, the premiere of season two was August 6th, 2021 and the finale was October 11th, 2021.

Riese: So it’s been a long time. During part of that time we had to really grapple with the possibility that the show would not return, which definitely made me love the show more because I realized just exactly how devastated I would be were it not to return.

Drew: I did famously say last season, at the end, that I wasn’t going to be watching Season 3 or coming back to the podcast.

Riese: Yeah, I didn’t believe you.

Drew: I think I thought I was going to be more successful in the year that passed. But I’ve really just taken a few little steps. It hasn’t really been… and I still like hanging with my pals.

Riese: Yeah!

Drew: And you know what, I’m happy to be here.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Well, should we talk a little bit about this episode?

Riese: Yeah. Tell us about the episode.

Drew: It’s called Last Year and it was written by Marja-Lewis Ryan, who you may know, showrunner of The L Word: Generation Q. And it’s directed by Katrelle N. Kindred, who directed last season’s Love Shack, which is the karaoke episode.

Riese: Oh, my fave!

Drew: Which is, in my opinion, the best episode of Gen Q.

Analyssa: That was a fun one.

Drew: And also directed an episode of A League of Their Own.

Riese: Oh wow.

Drew: Which is a great show.

Riese: A wonderful show. Yeah. That would be fun to do a podcast on.

Analyssa: A queer podcast-worthy show that has come out since the last time we were recording this podcast, of another queer podcast-worthy show.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean I was just looking forward to that show and now I’ve enjoyed that show, and now I’m wondering if that show’s going to get renewed.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Ah, to be gay and watch television.

Riese: Yeah, I know. We just get a little bit of shows. Because I think it’s like, we were like don’t kill our characters. And they were like, well if we can’t kill them then we’re just going to cancel it.

Analyssa: Trade offer. Instead of killing an individual queer character, what if we just…

Riese: Killed the series.

Analyssa: Wasn’t there a note on the scripts for this episode that they might do Q titles?

Riese: Yeah, they are doing Q titles.

Analyssa: But then today’s is Last Year, which is an L title.

Riese: Episode three is called Quiz Show.

Analyssa: Whoa. Oh, they’re mixing it up mid-season.

Riese: Yeah. There are several Q titles coming up, yeah.

Analyssa: This is like how in my fantasy football team, this is actually not at all like that, but I had to pick up a new quarterback and I named my team after the original quarterback and I’ve been thinking about changing my team name mid-season.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: They should actually have an episode called “Quarterback” and it could be a football episode.

Drew: Ooh, fun.

Analyssa: Oh, fun.

Riese: And they could all play football.

Analyssa: Like the basketball one.

Riese: Yes, exactly.

Analyssa: Iconic.

Riese: Iconic. Yeah. I’m full of great ideas, again. Most shocking perhaps about this season is that once again, I did not write it in any capacity.

Analyssa: Despite having so many ideas.

Riese: I was not hired at all, and I don’t know why. But alas, alas.

Drew: I just want to say that the previously on for this episode was…

Riese: A journey.

Analyssa: Wild.

Drew: I didn’t remember a lot of those things.

Riese: I remembered every minute of it because I had to watch every episode 17 times. I know it better than my own life.

Drew: Wow. Should we get into it?

Riese: Let’s get into it!

Drew: Well, one thing about the last season is that it ended with a knock on the door and we pick right back up.

Riese: Tiny Tina.

Analyssa: Tina on the other side of the door. Here’s the thing, right? The more that things change…

Riese: The more they stay the same.

Analyssa: Truly. So yeah, Bette and Tina have to have a convo because Tina’s like,

Tina: Are you in love with me?

Analyssa: And Bette is like,

Bette: Yeah.

Analyssa: Duh. That’s why I’ve been sabotaging everything that’s been going on since you’ve re-arrived at my home. One thing I do just want to call out is that I loved that Bette was in an all white outfit and Tina was in an all black outfit.

Riese: Oh she was? I didn’t notice that. Wow.

Analyssa: Very yin and yang inspired.

Riese: Yeah. Just like the black and white ball, but in their, do you say foyer or foy-eh?

Analyssa: I say foyer cause I don’t think I can pull off foy-eh.

Drew: I say foy-eh. Is that wrong?

Riese: No, you can pull it off.

Analyssa: It’s just that you’re fancy.

Riese: I’m like, Drew probably heard that in a French film.

Analyssa: And I feel like I’m from the Midwest and I just don’t present as…

Drew: Right, like I can’t pull off y’all.

Riese: Yeah, from Michigan.

Drew: I’m from Southern California. I can’t pull off a y’all.

Analyssa: And see. I say y’all all the time.

Riese: Yeah, me too.

Drew: Wow. It’s so special how different we are. And my reference point for black and white would be a black and white cookie, because I’m also Jewish.

Riese: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Okay. So basically, believe it or not, Bette and Tina still have feelings for each other.

Drew: They have feelings for each other. But Tina very much is being all boundaried and is like, this isn’t how you love someone. You’ve never treated me well. You’ve never known how to love me, blah blah, blah blah, blah. I can’t marry Carrie, but I also can’t be with you. I’m leaving. And then Bette shouts.

Bette: Fuckkkkkkkkkk!!!!

Drew: And then we see one year later and I shouted because I was so caught off guard. I love a time jump. One of my favorite things when TV shows do it because it just feels so chaotic. You just didn’t want to deal with any of those storylines. Let’s go.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: How’d you leave the conversation? What happened? It is one year later and Alice is hooking up with someone. Right? Is that the next thing?

Riese: Yeah. I believe this is what I would call a crossover episode.

Drew: Right. It’s Chris Renfro from Queer as Folk.

Riese: Yes. They played Daddius in Queer as Folk and they died.

Drew: Yes, they did. They’re alive here though.

Riese: In the very first episode.

Drew: They’re alive here.

Riese: They died right away, so it’s a spoiler, but it’s not really.

Analyssa: Look, my thing about Alice being bisexual, I love it. I wish that she also loved it. How come every time Alice is hooking up with someone who’s not Nat and Gigi, she seems to be having just the world’s worst time?

Drew: Right, yes. It’s unfortunate.

Riese: I thought she was having a good time.

Analyssa: Did you?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Huh.

Riese: I feel like she’s having as good of a time as she’s had. I mean she always is a little, her sex scenes are always a little silly.

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair.

Riese: Like with Phyllis, and I don’t know. Except for when it’s someone she’s in love with, her sex scenes are always pretty silly.

Drew: Was her sex scene with Tom ever like hot?

Riese: It was brief.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. Okay. Maybe I’m just projecting.

Drew: And, in the last year…

Analyssa: Well this is, maybe I just want to segue into the thing about me, which is that in the last year I have also re-come out as bisexual. Which Alice had to do last season, remember? She was like everyone… Although I was, the call was coming from inside house, I was branding myself as a lesbian. I thought I was. Anyway, the point is…

Riese: That you have a boyfriend.

Analyssa: The point is that I have a boyfriend. That’s also…

Riese: And his name is Tom.

Analyssa: Not the point I was going to make…

Riese: And he’s a writer.

Analyssa: I just felt like Alice is always hooking up with these people who she kind of doesn’t like that much. And actually for me, a key tenet of bisexuality is if I didn’t like this one boy so much, I would still just date women probably.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, so basically this person has blue hair and is Gen Z and a semi-influencer. The actor is probably not Gen Z. Like Gen Z is young…

Analyssa: I feel like they’re…

Riese: No. I thought they were older.

Drew: I don’t think people understand generations. They’re always calling people Millennials and Gen Z when they’re not. But whatever. Alice is with someone who’s much younger and we sort of get into a little bit of a, let’s check in on all the characters in a sexual way. Many of them.

Riese: Yeah, and that’s my favorite way to check in with characters.

Drew: Well, actually the next check in, they’re not having… Well they eventually have sex, but it’s Shane and Tess and with Tess’s mom and also Cool Hand Luke poster on the wall. Just wanted to clock that. Exciting stuff.

Riese: Margaret Chenowith.

Drew: They’re still together.

Riese: Oh yeah. Tess and Shane are still together. Tess’s shirt is so many different stripes. And that shows the diversity of life and that we’re all growing and changing. And Shane is… Shane slips very easily, always into this nice little domestic role, but it’s not really what, you know?

Drew: But now that it’s…

Analyssa: Shane doesn’t love it.

Riese: Tess is horny.

Analyssa: But she’s good at it.

Drew: It’s been a year gap though, so she’s been doing it for a while. What’s the longest relationship Shane’s had? Is it this?

Riese: No.

Drew: Oh, was she with Carmen for more than a year?

Riese: She was with Carmen for a little over a year. I actually started mapping this out the other day and then I thought, Marie — that’s my full name — get your shit together, you know? But I did figure out that with Carmen it was, because there was this, especially if you count the whole time that Shane and Carmen were dating, it was actually pretty long. Because there was a six month time jump between season two and season three of the original series.

Drew: Right, we love time jumps.

Riese: We love time jumps, yeah.

Drew: So then also Dani and Gigi are still together. Everyone’s still together. Dani’s like, we should move in together and Gigi’s like, I need to talk to Nat about that. Which makes total sense to me, but Dani’s very upset by this.

Analyssa: Yeah. I was like, don’t they have to do this a lot? They have children, this has to come up a lot. One thing I do want to say about this is that Gigi says Beverly is down to one lane. And I was like, finally someone in this television show drives in Los Angeles. Because they’re always kind of like, yeah, I’ll just pop over. And this was true traffic representation.

Riese: I was like, oh my God, if Beverly’s down to one lane, we’re all screwed. It’s fine, it’s on the way to the mall. But the point of this is that, well not everyone’s together because Alice and Tom aren’t together.

Drew: That’s true. But we don’t get to s-

Analyssa: We didn’t, yeah, see any of that end.

Drew: Will we? I don’t know, not in this episode. Angie is moving into college. We get a fun little remark of Alice talking about Gen Z and being like, I’m hot and bisexual, I’m ahead of my time. I’m just like Gen Z. Angie is wearing a “Sisterhood is Powerful” shirt, which feels way more Gen X than Gen Z. And I don’t understand why they have her in that.

Riese: Because sisterhood is powerful.

Analyssa: True.

Drew: Well, I guess that is hard to argue with.

Riese: Yeah, exactly.

Analyssa: Yeah. What do you have to say now?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: So, it’s clear Tina and Bette haven’t seen each other in a year. And they’re like, but Bette’s been doing all kinds of personal work and then she pulls up and she looks really serene. She’s in a Tesla, which is sinister.

Analyssa: But she looks serene behind the wheel. And then when she gets rear-ended, critically she does not yell. Doesn’t even raise her temper. She’s just chill. And she even gives the girl a hug and says,

Bette: The only thing you have to do is hold compassion for yourself and enjoy move-in day.

Riese: Yeah, she doesn’t go, what makes you think I’m not already?

Drew: Growth.

Riese: And Tina’s impressed.

Analyssa: This tiny glimpse of growth is enough to sort of change Tina’s heart and mind a bit.

Drew: Tina is horny for Bette finally being an adult.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I do love, we’re all going to die, so what’s a little bumper?

Riese: Oh my god, I loved that. Because that’s how I feel about literally everything.

Analyssa: That’s perfect.

Riese: We’re all going to die. Let’s do this podcast. We’re all going to die. Sisterhood is powerful. You know?

Analyssa: We’re all going to die.

Riese: Wear it. We’re all going to die.

Drew: Next character check in, Sophie and Micah. You know, Micah’s being that good trans friend to Sophie as they’re talking about Finley coming back. We do get a little bit of a taste of what’s going on in Micah’s life, which is that he’s proposing to Maribel.

Analyssa: They’ve been together a year.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: It’s something you can do with a character. And then Finley shows up.

Analyssa: And Finley’s been in sober living since whenever she left rehab. Don’t know the amounts of time there, but that’s where she has been. And she’s returning.

Riese: I guess a year. Okay, well so I did the timeline last year, right? So last year ended on May 22nd I want to say. And now based on a date that we get in the next episode, now we’re in September.

Analyssa: Got it.

Riese: So somehow Finley’s been in rehab and sober living for over a year and they haven’t seen each other.

Analyssa: Here’s one thing I want to say about Finley’s sobriety storyline just upfront, I’m just going to say, I’ve decided to just go on this journey with them. I know too much actually about what it’s like to get sober, how people act in these situations. I’m saying that’s what they want me to believe she did? Gorgeous.

Riese: Yeah, wonderful.

Analyssa: So, I’m here to provide that for you guys.

Riese: And I think that also it’s just really nice that they could afford to do that. That would be nice. I would love to spend a year in sober living.

Analyssa: Totally.

Drew: Yeah. I think also, what is a year? A year for one person can be a year for another. Yeah. So who knows how long the year time jump was, we don’t need to worry about it. Finley and Sophie go on a little picnic and Finley says that 28 Days with Sandra Bullock is a documentary.

Analyssa: Honestly, before I got sober, I did watch that movie on a plane and it did make me cry the entire time. It’s like 97 minutes I bet, and I probably cried for 94 of them. So honestly, she was not wrong about this. Actually this is one part of her sobriety storyline that I will go on and say that’s a banger. That’s what I’ll say.

Riese: But she seemed to have had a cute time. Oh, also her hair is dark now.

Drew: Yes oh, very important.

Analyssa: Oh yeah!

Riese: Which is crucial. And then she decides that she is going to, I guess we’re supposed to think these are her amends? Which she is not doing correctly.

Analyssa: Really not. But in this world, that’s what amends look like, so we’re going to go with it.

Drew: I think I actually would be interested, I think this is maybe a time, like nitpicking timeline I don’t think we need to do, but I would be interested in knowing what the show is maybe cutting corners on, or misrepresenting as far as making amends goes.

Analyssa: Well, I do feel probably every specific sponsor tells their sponsee to do amends slightly differently. But I feel like there’s a lot of format to a lot of AA steps actually. You do all this work before you even get to amends that are about what your character… They call them defects in the program, which is kind of tough and people use different language, but which of those contributed to the specific issues.

And the thing that bumped me here a little bit was she’s sort of just being like, yeah, I didn’t love you in the way that you were supposed to be loved. Which is actually, you’re supposed to really drill into like the time I didn’t show up for you at this, and the time we got pulled over for this, and how those all contributed to you feeling like this. And she kind of lets, in a couple of these, lets the person who she’s talking to kind of brush her off and be like, it doesn’t matter, it’s fine. And the real big thing is you’re supposed to finish. You go in, even if you haven’t written it out, my sponsor made me write them out. But you say all the things you’re supposed to say and then you say, do you have anything you want to say to me about this? And that got cut. So there’s just like…

Drew: Sure.

Riese: Well I think, and another main thing which comes up more later is that you have to ask somebody. You can’t just launch into it. You have to set a time to do it. And if they don’t want to do it, then you don’t do it. You don’t push it on anybody who’s not ready or at a time when they’re not ready for it.

Drew: Maybe when they’re at work organizing some sort of fundraiser, maybe, theoretically.

Analyssa: Oh yeah. I forgot that that was a note that I had later in the pod. And you just don’t go like, Hey, can we chat? It’s very… I had to craft a text, show it to my sponsor and be like, can I send this to my ex from college? Can I send this to… you have a very, Hey, here’s what I’m about to do. Are we good to set a time for that? But I did love that they’re still being very silly together at the end of this.

Riese: Yeah, it was cute.

Analyssa: They are making their little poop and fart jokes and they’re like jumping on each other. It’s just very sweet. It’s what we like about them. They’re very fun and silly together. And I think that comes back later too.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Still Team Sinley. We get a brief little, some brief moments of Angie’s college goodbyes.

Riese: That was really cute, I thought.

Analyssa: It was really sweet. I love how many grownups she has, you know? Also, speaking of hair changes to signify growth, Bette’s little shag, hip, wolf cut thing she’s got going on. Loved it.

Riese: Yeah. It’s cute, because they’re really pushy and they want to over-mother her and then she’s… Pushes them off. But then once they leave then she wants to hug. And I was like, that’s so fucking cute. Oh, but also we did not discuss the fact that she’s attending California University.

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Riese: Famously, I mean in addition to being the university attended by the characters of every show ever, including Saved by the Bell, Beverly Hills 90210, it’s also the university where Bette Porter had a infamous tenure.

Drew: Wow, that’s true.

Riese: Yeah. So…

Drew: I didn’t piece that together.

Riese: Everyone should just simmer on that and think about what it would be like for Angie.

Drew: Well, I do think it probably helped her get in. Not that, I mean, Angie’s great. I’m sure Angie could get in on her own merit.

Analyssa: College is really hard to get into these days, I hear though.

Riese: Yeah, well, but California University, again famously does seem to let in entire groups of friends. So they might not be that selective.

Drew: She didn’t even need the nepotism.

Riese: No.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: I will say, I put in my notes when they left and Angie hadn’t hugged them. I was like, oh my God. And then I wrote, oh no phew, okay. So then after Angie runs out to give them both a hug, then Bette and Tina leave, walk out together. And Tina asked Bette if she’s going to the fundraiser, which is this episode’s big event to get everybody in the same room. And Tina had earlier told Shane that she was not going. And now she tells Bette she is going and it’s because she saw Bette get into that car accident.

Riese: Yeah, she saw we’re all going to die soon Bette, and was like, all right I’m in. But first she gets a call from Pippa.

Analyssa: Oh, right!

Riese: So they’re in touch.

Analyssa: They speak still.

Riese: They speak. Yeah.

Analyssa: But Pippa’s in South Africa.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Yeah, and we learn later that Bette apologized to Pippa and was really open and communicative. Which…

Analyssa: All part of her work on herself.

Drew: Cool. Yeah, it’s a fundraiser for the MS Society at Dana’s, where else. And Alice is in a white suit. Those my first two notes.

Analyssa: Alice loves this little dumb and dumber suit palette and I love that for her.

Riese: Yeah, the big suits, oversized, the big accessories.

Analyssa: Yes and blue, she really likes that blue shade.

Riese: Yes she does. And I love it for her.

Analyssa: And I love it for her. She looks so fun.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. So they’re trying to raise, Dani is here helping produce the event, I think?

Riese: Yeah. I think she’s an event planner now.

Analyssa: Yeah. Later she mentions other jobs that she’s doing. So I feel like it’s producer, event coordination stuff.

Riese: Yeah, she should work for us.

Analyssa: And they’re trying to raise $5,000 and they’re doing a little auction.

Drew: They said that the cost of the event was $5,000. So they need to do that to make the money back. And then everything else is being donated. So yeah, I think that makes sense to me.

Analyssa: I do just think Tess, and I understand not wanting to ask your friends for money, but also I don’t, because I think sometimes your friends have money to give. Wow, this would be a great plug for an Autostraddle fundraiser if we were still running it now. But Tess knows wealthy people.

Riese: I mean she kind of does get them to…

Drew: That’s the reason why you’d have a party like this. Because I think rich people love to get to show, they’re in the room and they get to go, oh, $10,000. And then that feels better than just quiet, like they want to show off.

Analyssa: Sure, okay.

Riese: Yeah, and then they get a deer.

Analyssa: And I love Shane and Alice doing this groundwork still. They’re still like, hey Tina, Bette’s better now. Don’t even worry. Bette’s better now. Which is kind of fun.

Riese: Yeah, I know. It’s like, this is sort of this idea that it’s like Angie’s parents are getting back together, but it kind of also feels like it’s Shane and Alice’s parents getting back together.

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: Because this event does not have enough things going on, Micah has also decided that he would like to propose tonight.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Like what?

Analyssa: Everyone knows, I actually, I stand by him on this one reason, which is, he says now everybody knows so she’s going to find out if I don’t do it. Which…

Riese: Right.

Drew: That is fair.

Analyssa: That is how queer circles work.

Drew: I would argue and this is just my own personal opinion. I’m unmarried. I don’t believe in surprise proposals. I think you should have talked about wanting to get married. You don’t have to know when. It can still be a thing where you’ve talked about how someday soon you want to get married. But I think you should have had a conversation with your partner about, do they want to get married? Do they like marriage? That’s just a personal thing. It’s not a critique of the show. Plenty of people do surprise proposals. That’s just my personal preference.

Riese: I think you should never talk about it. And then you should go to a sports game and then on the jumbotron you should be like, will you be my wife?

Analyssa: My dream actually is to be proposed to via jumbotron. I’m a sports girlie at heart.

Drew: Yeah, I could see that for you.

Riese: Yeah, or someone comes down, you’re at a hockey game and then it’s a bunch of figure skaters come on. And they dance and they form a heart. And then it’s like, will you marry me? That’s what I think. That’s what I think Micah should have been doing tonight but instead he’s going to, what? Auction off this wedding ring?

Analyssa: He’s going to stand up there and bid. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: In other Maribel news, she doesn’t want Sophie and Finley to be together.

Riese: Yeah, she hates Finley.

Drew: I would say, fair as a protective sibling.

Riese: Although, when she’s like, she ruined your wedding, I’m like, no she didn’t. The wedding was already ruined.

Analyssa: And yeah, again, I’m on this journey with them. I’ve just decided to commit to the vision of what Finley’s drunkenness and therefore sobriety mean. But much like the amends that Finley gave to Sophie, in this, I’m like, I guess I believe you that that’s your experience, but I didn’t see all that. And I wish that either I had or we weren’t talking about that particular thing, but to Drew’s point, protective sibling stuff. Fair.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But Sophie’s like Finley’s completely better now. Which I think is sort of a fantasy that she has, that all of Finley’s problems were caused by alcohol and all of them will be fixed by her not drinking alcohol. And that’s obviously not going to be the case.

Analyssa: Finley has gone to talk to Tess and Shane and also do some surprise amends, which also get cut really short. And they’re like, it’s totally fine. And they offer…

Riese: Also don’t, why are you trying to have serious conversations with people while they’re at work? I don’t know. It’s fine.

Analyssa: This event, not the time or place for any of this. They offer her her job back. And I’ll just say, Ana speaking for Ana, I might not even have gone to this event fresh off any of my sobriety stuff. It seems like a lot.

Riese: I don’t know if I’ve been to a bar in over a year.

Analyssa: It’s hard. I’ve gone to bars, but I’m like, I don’t love it the way that I used to and it comes with a lot of stuff. And maybe for someone who’s fresh back into their life…

Riese: Working at a bar is the worst idea in the whole world. I don’t know how Tess does it. I don’t know how Tess is so fucking passionate as we’ll see. Very passionate about owning bars. But I was like, this is the worst idea ever. But I hope, I guess what I hope is that it doesn’t become a thing. If they’re going to have her work at the bar, just don’t even address it.

Analyssa: Or they’re like, her and Tess are hanging and they’re like, oh, this can be fine.

Riese: Yeah, it’s fine.

Analyssa: We’re fine. But I don’t…

Riese: Yeah, I don’t want to… she’s tempted to drink because it’s just right in front of her thing. That’s boring.

Drew: Absolutely.

Analyssa: And we already saw that kind of with Tess in the first season, whatever. Yeah, so…

Drew: Not boring though is next up we have an appearance from Kehlani. And I was so excited.

Riese: Yes. She looks amazing.

Analyssa: So good, so attractive.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. She really shines. She’s such an actress and I give her an Emmy and a Pulitzer.

Analyssa: Immediate Emmy.

Riese: Immediate Emmy!

Analyssa: For saying “Shut the door. You can’t come in here.”

Drew: Emmy.

Analyssa: I don’t even know what’s going on in that room. Honestly, but-

Drew: No, I don’t either.

Riese: Chaos. Also, what’s that room? I don’t know.

Drew: No idea. I don’t care.

Riese: It’s like a secret passageway to a secret potential magical world.

Analyssa: Yeah, I thought Shane was going to discover a secret underground gambling ring again.

Riese: Yeah, and that’s what this show needs.

Drew: I would follow Kehlani to Narnia, to a gambling ring. Really to anywhere.

Riese: It would’ve been cool if this was a portal to another dimension. Do you know what I mean?

Analyssa: Maybe it did and that’s where Kehlani has come from, to come grace this cast.

Riese: Oh my god, that’s so cute.

Drew: A different world, like The Faraway Tree.

Analyssa: So they have a moment where it’s like, Shane can’t go into this room, Shane goes back to the bar.

Riese: Yes. We do know what Kehlani’s there for. Which is that she’s the makeup artist, because they had a makeup artist cancel earlier that day and she’s the makeup artist from the glam team. Alice’s glam team, who Alice said they’ll fill in, they’ll do the makeover, which I hope someone buys for me.

Drew: Is the makeover happening the night of the thing? I was confused.

Riese: It’s probably like a make your own makeover.

Drew: Night of the party.

Riese: Yeah, you could be like, I want my makeover before the Gentleman Jack event.

Drew: Oh but, okay. Okay.

Riese: Or you could be like, I want my makeover before this wedding that I’m going to, or I want my makeover before I…

Drew: Right, but why is she there? Just to be like, and she’ll be hot, so you really want…

Riese: That is a good question, Drew. Yeah.

Drew: I think that would sell me. I mean, I…

Riese: That would sell me too, yeah.

Drew: I would be like, I don’t need a makeover, really. And then I’d see Kehlani and I’d be like…

Riese: I would be like, so she’s going to touch my hair?

Drew: $10,000!

Analyssa: That’s my thing is I would actually be like, let’s have Kehlani stand on stage when people bid so they know they get to hang out with a very hot person. How’s that work? Okay. So then back at the big ex reunion that will be talked about for ages.

Riese: I don’t have notes so I…

Analyssa: Right. I was like, you looked like you were thinking.

Riese: Oh I am always thinking. Yeah, it’s just non-stop.

Drew: Yeah, she asked what season.

Analyssa: I get a good laugh out of any time there’s TV stuff in this specific TV show. It just really gets a chuckle out of me every time.

Drew: And Tina is flying to Toronto tomorrow.

Analyssa: And that’s relatable to you.

Drew: It is relatable to me.

Analyssa: Whatever show Tina’s on is in season nine, which honestly mazel to her, that’s a big get in this era.

Riese: Yeah, that’s a really long show. It must be a show about a man with a gun.

Analyssa: Or it’s like a reality show, but it’s not because she’s talking about scripts and stuff.

Riese: Yeah and she’s in Toronto.

Drew: I can make actual Canadian references now, but I wish, what is that show that’s been on for forever?

Riese: Dr. Who.

Drew: No, no, no.

Riese: Coronation Street.

Drew: It’s a Canadian show. It’s like an old-timey murder mystery show and it’s been on for 18 years.

Riese: Murdoch Mysteries.

Drew: Murdoch Mysteries! Yes. Murdoch Mysteries.

Analyssa: Tina’s producing Murdoch Mysteries.

Riese: Oh my God, I love that for her.

Analyssa: Also a thing that got a chuckle out of me is Alice being taught TikTok, her date teaching her about TikTok and then Shane comes over and forces her to pay attention to Bette and Tina. There’s just a funny art imitating life kind of situation going on.

Drew: Okay, I have an astrology problem.

Riese: I know I was about to say, when you lifted your hand I was like, you’re about to talk about astrology.

Drew: Okay, because this person who Alice is hooking up with where I don’t know what their gender is.

Analyssa: What’s their name?

Riese: Daddius?

Analyssa: No.

Drew: No it’s not.

Riese: That’s their name on Queer as Folk. Teddy.

Analyssa: Teddy.

Drew: Okay. I don’t know Teddy’s gender, but they’re like, asked Shane what her Venus is because they say that she has an intensity to her. But Venus is like how you are with love and relationships, so what does that have to do with her intensity to some stranger she just met, they should have asked Shane for her sun or her moon.

Riese: Or her…

Drew: Rising.

Riese: Mercury. Or her sandstone.

Drew: I was like this is not, that’s not the placement to ask about. We do learn that Alice is a Taurus Venus.

Teddy: But not in a derogatory way.

Drew: That part of the astrology checked out for me.

Analyssa: I also got a giggle out of Finley coming over and talking about Venmo-ing weird amounts to Alice. The idea of Finley. I really was endeared by this, the idea of Finley being like, I’m going to Venmo her anytime I have…

Riese: A little extra money.

Analyssa: One to seven dollars in my bank account that I don’t need. And just chipping away at something.

Drew: This is a message to everyone. Free yourself from the capitalist message that you can never take money from people or that you need to pay back or whatever. Obviously if you take a loan out and you want to pay your friend back because you agreed to that, whatever. But Ellen DeGeneres of The L Word universe? Do not pay Alice Pieszecki money back.

Riese: Yeah, don’t pay Alice back, you can keep your money! Also, if…

Drew: It’s not that I don’t believe Finley would do that. I also found it very funny and very Finley, but please keep your money if you are a broke queer person…

Riese: Who’s about to work at a bar, even though you’re newly sober, just keep your money. But if I had that much money, I would love to be able to give it to Finley for rehab and not be paid back. That’s why you have that much money, so that you can help people who don’t have it.

Drew: Alice could send it back though. And apparently she’s not doing that so.

Analyssa: Well, she doesn’t really know how to use any social media is what I’ve learned.

Riese: And also, what is she going to do? It’s probably $1.50 and she’s like, am I going to really send back $1.50, you know?

Analyssa: What she could do is save it all and then cash it out and then pay it back to Finley later, if she really was like…

Riese: Yeah, with the rocket pop emoji.

Analyssa: Basically the next big set-piece is Finley tries to talk to Dani.

Riese: Which is so… I decided I was just going to nitpick one thing in this whole episode. Just pick one and it’s this.

Drew: Wow, mm-hmm. That’s fair.

Analyssa: I think that’s right.

Drew: This is also my…

Riese: Because, first of all, so you’re not supposed to do amends with someone if you think it’ll hurt them more than it will benefit either of you, right? Or more than it will benefit them. But you’re really not supposed to do it to somebody who says no.

Analyssa: Right. I actually really appreciate Dani. I know it’s messy, but I was really kind of there for her being like, I don’t find you charming. You think everyone finds you charming and I do not. Stop it.

Riese: Riese might still find you charming but nobody else does.

Analyssa: I know. And I was like, I kind of find you charming, okay. A little bit. But I think Finley is trying to be like, but I’m not that person anymore, which I totally understand. But these two characters are never going to be able to have that kind of normal deep conversation because of everything that has happened.

Drew: You can’t Graduate someone and then be like, let’s be buds.

Analyssa: Let’s be pals. And yeah, the biggest thing is, so inappropriate to go up to somebody and be like, hey, can we talk right now? And then try to do amends and then be told no, and be like, but- but- but- but-

Riese: Right, no.

Analyssa: Every single part of that is actually actively against what you’re supposed to be doing. The step is make amends to others unless to do so would hurt them or another person. So it’s like, if you’re implicating someone else, even that they don’t even know, the biggest example people use is cheating. Doing an amends, if you’re Finley and this whole thing hadn’t happened, but she had an amends to make to Dani because she had slept with Sophie behind Dani’s back and Dani didn’t know. You don’t do that. You figure out ways to, in your life be a better person to Dani and to Sophie and to people in relationships. Anyway, obviously that’s like a scenario far from this one. But the moral is the same, which is it’s actively going to upset Dani to have this conversation and not in a, this is a hard convo…

Riese: And this is the worst time and the worst place.

Drew: Yeah. There is something so powerful about not finding someone charming when they seem to have a grip on your friend group, that’s happened to me before where I’m just like, wow. Whatever it is about that person does not work on me and I am a god.

Analyssa: I do feel that every time they are thrown together and Dani gets to be kind of bitchy, it’s really fun dialogue. I love her being just, no, stop. That’s always very fun.

Riese: Sorry, Drew, what were you going to say?

Drew: Oh, I was just going to move to Kehlani. Because that’s the next…

Analyssa: Well the next thing though is that then…

Riese: Tess interrupts.

Analyssa: Tess intervenes.

Drew: Right. Sorry, I’m getting ahead of myself.

Analyssa: And, basically Finley storms out, Sophie follows her, Tess asks Dani if she’s okay, Dani’s like, I’m fine, whatever. And then Sophie and Finley go outside. And they sort of, again, have a little bit of silliness and Sophie really wanted tonight to be fun and perfect and Finley’s big night back. Again, I don’t know that this event is the correct tone for that. I would’ve maybe been like, let’s order in and just hang. But I get it. And they sort of shit on Dani. I don’t know, there’s an interesting, it’s sweet that Sophie is like, I’m here for you, Dani sucks. And I don’t love hearing Dani sucks from Sophie, but I do like her saying, whatever, those people don’t matter. It’s about what we are doing, you know? I thought that was lovely.

Riese: I worry though that she’s losing herself a little bit. Because she’s like, it’s not okay for Dani to be a dick to you, but also it kind of is.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. And also I was like, is that exactly what happened if you played the tapes back? I don’t know. So yeah, I’m a little bit on the… Every Sophie scene in this episode made my heart twinge just a little bit for her and for Finley because I’m very anxious for both of them and I just want them both to be happy. And I fear Sophie is, like you said, has this starry-eyed, Finley’s not drinking and everything’s going to be easy and amazing now. And I have bad news, which is that that’s not really how it goes. First of all, in any relationship. But secondly, with a newly sober person and getting used to the changes that that brings in somebody’s life. So I just want to hold both their faces in my hands a little bit.

Riese: Yeah, definitely. But they decide to bust this pop stand and go do something else.

Analyssa: Something naughty.

Riese: Which is nice. But it’s also in the same time setting up Sophie, like them having to be separate from everyone else.

Drew: Right. Very good point.

Analyssa: Okay, now you can move us on to Kehlani again.

Drew: Yes, because she apologizes to Shane being like, I didn’t know you own this bar. Also, clearly knows who Shane is because they go back into the back room and she has a…

Riese: Shane for Wax.

Drew: Shane for Wax hair product.

Analyssa: Iconic. I love the idea of spending way too much money on eBay for this product that you’re like, this actually changes my life. I need it.

Drew: I know that we’re setting up this thing of Shane’s… Kehlani is the big boss of Shane growing up and not cheating. I think it’s not cheating if it’s Kehlani. I know that they’re not Kehlani in this universe, but still. I don’t know the rules of all relationships, but I think that that’s one of them.

Riese: I do, I agree with you, yeah.

Drew: People can correct me if I’m wrong, but I do think that it’s not cheating. I think Tess would be like…

Analyssa: Look. Look at them.

Drew: Yeah. Right? I don’t know.

Riese: I don’t know.

Drew: That’s a principle of my morals.

Analyssa: I’m obsessed with this near inclusion in the sexy lesbian haircuts list. Ooh, we got so close. There’s a lot of hair touching and neck… Basically, Kehlani is like. Shane since you’re back here, maybe you could style me and Shane’s like, I haven’t cut hair in 35 years. I don’t know. And Kehlani is like, but you’re so…

Drew: But you’re a genius.

Riese: Yeah, you’re an artist with the clippers.

Drew: What is Kehlani’s character’s name?

Analyssa: I’m not sure.

Riese: Ivy.

Drew: Ivy?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Ivy.

Riese: Ivy.

Drew: Ivy. Okay.

Riese: And Ivy is a single mother.

Drew: I’ll respect them as a thespian and call them Ivy.

Riese: Yeah, I’ll try. I think the character is she/her though.

Drew: God forbid.

Analyssa: We wouldn’t have time to get into that.

Riese: I like that they’ve still managed to make sure that no one has to know how to do hair to do these scenes. You know what I mean? All Shane does is touches her hair and looks in her eyes and just pulls out her hair. And then eventually is like, I guess she gets too turned on by this whole thing and it’s just overwhelming for her. It’s overwhelming for all of us. And she’s like, nevermind, you look great as you are. Get me out of here!

Drew: I really would love…

Riese: Carol’s alarmed, so is Shane.

Drew: If, for once, and maybe this will happen. Because I’ve only watched this first episode, that the Shane’s in a committed relationship very in love, but Shane’s Shane. If it could, I know we’ve done the whole throuple thing on Gen Q and it didn’t work out, I don’t know why.

Analyssa: R.I.P.

Riese: In my opinion, it worked out.

Drew: Yeah, of course.

Analyssa: I miss them.

Drew: I do think that having a thing of being, there are so many different ways that relationships can look and being, what if Shane found a relationship that suited who she is? And then she could have this little fling with Ivy and Tess could have another fling with someone else and that would be so nice. But I feel like it’s just going to be conflict. And…

Riese: Well, Shane and Quiara were in an open relationship, so I’m like, how did this happen again? I guess because that’s what Shane does. She’s just always like, yeah, sure, monogamy.

Analyssa: Shane wants to be that tweet that you sent me earlier that’s like, we’re madly in love, but we both publicly have hoes and also no one calls us polyamorous, but, kind of.

Drew: Yeah, but part of that is you talk to your partner about it. You’re like, we don’t need to identify as anything, but we know it’s okay that sometimes we meet Kehlani.

Analyssa: Sometimes you meet Kehlani and you must do something about that, other than touch Kehlani’s hair. I really got a laugh out of Shane being like,

Shane: I don’t really have to do anything.

Analyssa: Ivy has talked about how Shane has such a talent with hair and has a gift that must be shared with the world. And basically all Shane does is rearrange her part for a while and then go, no, I think it’s good.

Riese: Yeah. Shane’s big move in season one was giving somebody bangs and layers and highlights. Like a modified Rachel. And honestly they did a great job of it.

Analyssa: There was also a moment where Tess said she was going to take Bette back and I thought there was going to be a walk-in moment.

Drew: I also thought that. Then we go to the auction. We get our first Bettina grand gesture. I’m not saying Tibette. LA is plastered with ads that say Tibette is endgame. I’m like, people who don’t watch The L Word are like, did something happen with China and Tibet?

Riese: And why are they spelling it wrong?

Drew: Yeah, I’m like, why? I’m just going to say Bettina and I’m sorry.

Analyssa: Where are the Tibette is endgame ads?

Drew: You haven’t seen them?

Analyssa: No.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: They’re just following Drew around like a little phantom menace.

Drew: I feel like they’re all around…

Riese: I haven’t seen them.

Drew: What?

Riese: I’ve seen L Word billboards though with the photobooth.

Drew: I have a picture, I’m not crazy.

Riese: Look, Carol’s looking out the window now. She wants to see it.

Drew: I’m not crazy. I have a picture.

Riese: When I was first recapping The L Word when I was a small child, new to this world, radiant skin.

Analyssa: Sweet summer child.

Riese: Sweet summer child who had not, well I was already pretty weird. But anyway, the point is that I would talk about Tibette and my girlfriend who was actively involved in activism around Tibet, the country, was like, what are you talking about? And so I explained and she was like, that’s wrong. You shouldn’t call it that. And so I was like, okay, I’ll call it Bettina, I guess? And I was like, eventually, if I keep calling it Bettina, since people read my recaps, it will eventually catch on. But by that point, Tibette forever was already… There’s already all these websites, and all of these communities around it. So it was just like…

Analyssa: You were just one rock in a stream.

Riese: I’m just one rock in the rocky stream of the Rocky Mountains on a hill mountain, falling into the sea, and we’re all falling into the sea.

Analyssa: We’re all dying.

Riese: And we’re all going to die.

Analyssa: What’s a bumper?

Riese: Exactly. Life’s a bumper, move on.

Drew: I will accept that Bette and Tina are endgame, a thing that I don’t personally want, but I will not ever say Tibette. I mean, I’m saying it again and again, but you know what I mean.

Analyssa: That’s not your ship name.

Drew: Yes. Bette has put a certain work of art up for auction.

Riese: Her Kiki Smith, which in season three, when Bette was unemployed and Tina… The beginning, it was right before Tina started having cyber sex with DaddyofTwo.

Drew: Ah, the memories.

Analyssa: Man, I forgot about DaddyofTwo.

Riese: Bette lost funding from her NEA, whatever. And Tina was complaining about money, so she’s like, fine, I’ll sell my art, I can’t believe you’re doing this to me. I just cannot. Can you imagine just having things hanging out on your wall that you could sell if you got poor? The things hanging on my wall, I printed that out on my printer, and that frame was in the Ikea as is section. So she calls and talks about, wants to sell a Mapplethorpe, even though we never saw her have a Mapplethorpe. But she mentions the Kiki Smith and she’s like, no, I could never part with the Kiki Smith. And then she’s like, how much? She finds out it’s a bunch of money, but I guess she ended up not selling it. Instead, Tina had to take the job with at Shaolin with Helena, and now here we are. And now Bette, because now she’s shed all of her things is ready to part with her dear possession. Or is she?

Drew: This to me feels like when someone’s like, I’m moving on. I don’t need anything my ex gave me. I’m going to burn all these. And you’re like, wait, wait. Stop, stop, stop. That’s like your entire wardrobe. You were talking very peacefully, but this doesn’t feel peaceful. This goes very chaotic. And also starting the bidding of $500, how much would this go for? I was like, what? At least if you’re going to sell it for a good cause, get the money that it’s worth.

Riese: Yeah. Go sell it for a good… and then give the money… what?

Analyssa: She’s so serene and centered now that she doesn’t even blink.

Riese: It doesn’t matter. She’s just like, I’m going to let some poor lesbian living in Silver Lake buy this painting.

Analyssa: And have something of…

Riese: Or this drawing of Linnea’s tattoo of a deer.

Drew: Well, Tina saves the day because Tina says $10,000.

Riese: Tina is rich now too.

Drew: Yes. Famously, her show has been on for nine seasons. And yes, they shoot in Toronto so it’s probably not the biggest show in the world. But it’s…

Riese: But I mean it is Murdoch Mysteries. And if you don’t know, that’s a pretty big hit.

Drew: I think they’re on season 20-something of that.

Analyssa: I was going to say, it’s a nine season show. She’s kind of making money.

Drew: She’s rolling in it, yeah.

Riese: Yeah, it’s definitely probably like Criminal Minds.

Analyssa: Also, the stuff that she’s talking about, she’s an EP on that show. She’s getting an EP fee for every episode. She’s like…

Riese: Yeah she can buy 10,000 deers.

Drew: Yeah, you’re an executive now. Wow, bisexual, executive. Ana’s really had a whole year.

Analyssa: So many things have changed. Also, I do love all the things you said about Tina and knowing about this art piece and whatever. And being, throughout the years, Tina has been annoyed that she knows that Bette’s life is the life that they live. She knows so much about Bette’s work and she knows so much about… But then as soon as this piece was up for auction, Tina being like, it’s worth way more than that. I was like, that’s actually really accurate. That is how you feel about some of your ex’s passions where you’re like, okay but actually…

Riese: Yeah, mm-hmm.

Analyssa: I know too much about that now.

Riese: Yes. Yeah.

Analyssa: Anyway, so Tina buys it. Tina’s like $10,000, and the auctioneer is like, let’s just not ask anybody else for anything. We’re done.

Riese: So Helena’s stuck there.

Analyssa: And Tina comes back to the table and Shane and Alice sliding out of the booth with little faces on really made me laugh.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And Bette and Tina have a emotionally charged, very lesbian conversation about this piece of art and how meaningful it is.

Riese: Deer.

Analyssa: And Tina’s like, I didn’t want someone else to own a piece of us. I think about you when I think about this piece.

Riese: I think about Bambi. Yeah, I think of that.

Analyssa: I think it’s a nice drawing.

Riese: I think…

Drew: I will say that this episode convinced me that Bette and Tina should be together. And that the Bette that I wanted to be with Jodi, to be with Pippa, isn’t who Bette is. And that the same way that I would tell a friend who’s in a relationship where they’re dating someone’s potential and not who they really are, that they shouldn’t be in that relationship. I need to give up my dreams for this fictional character and all the people that she could date and realize that, actually her and Tina makes sense.

Analyssa: She loves Tina and Tina loves her.

Drew: And good for them.

Analyssa: Aren’t we all kind of going on that? By which I mean me and you, with this show right now. This episode, we’re both kind of like, yeah. You know what I’m going to accept.

Riese: I mean, at the very least, let’s not have any more Carries left stranded on the side of the road in tears.

Drew: Yeah, you’re right.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: Right, if they’re going to be together, be together.

Riese: Just be together.

Drew: Stop hurting people.

Riese: Bette just needs to fix herself, I guess. I mean, in my opinion, Tina’s personality is still halfway missing, but I think that they…

Drew: Yeah, absolutely. I think that works for Bette.

Riese: I think Bette likes that because Bette has 1.5 personalities and Tina has 0.5. And so together, that’s a whole personality.

Analyssa: Which they actually kind of say at the bar, they’re having this conversation and Tina’s talking about work and is like, I manage a lot of big personalities. Wink, wink, wink. And so, you know.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. Kehlani slash Ivy is leaving and says a very…

Riese: Sexy goodbye.

Analyssa: Charged eyeball goodbye to Shane. And that’s how you know something’s going to happen there.

Riese: That’s how you know something is going to happen. Yeah, she’s going to look at her hair and be like, you know what? Actually I think we should do a bob.

Analyssa: I think we got to chop it off.

Riese: Yeah. Got to chop it off.

Analyssa: Bangs maybe.

Riese: Undercut.

Analyssa: Yeah. Undercut would be good.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Is this when Tess finds out how much money they’ve made and she’s excited?

Drew: Maybe.

Analyssa: Or is that later?

Riese: It was earlier that she and Dani were like $7,000 that I was like…

Drew: I think they were excited because it was so early in the night.

Analyssa: Right. I mean, now they’ve made $10,000 off Tina alone wanting to get Bette back, so.

Drew: That’s really powerful. Really, that’s the ti-

Riese: She probably left the painting behind.

Drew: Yeah. If you want to get money, you need to invite a bunch of rich lesbians who are ready to make grand gestures, show off to their new crushes. Speaking of breakups.

Analyssa: Oh, right.

Riese: Oh, yeah their casual, little thing. It’s O-V-E-R. Halfway through I panicked I would not be able to spell that entire word.

Analyssa: I honestly thought that was impressive.

Riese: Yeah? Thank you.

Drew: And so, you know…

Riese: It’s over.

Drew: It’s over and Alice is wanting to find something real. And I love that for Alice. What a journey and the first step of that journey, that will be a few scenes from now, is a choice. But then, next Tess wants to buy another bar. Is that?

Analyssa: Yes, yeah.

Riese: This is, okay, I have this thing which is I don’t really like Tess.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. I think that she stresses me out.

Riese: This is a stupid idea.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Bad idea.

Riese: Also, there’s a White Castle right there. So, what? You’re just going to have two bars, two lesbian bars.

Analyssa: Next to a White Castle?

Riese: Next to a White Castle.

Analyssa: That’s not profitable.

Drew: I just, there’s no lesbian bars in LA and the idea of having a second one owned by the same person. I mean, it’d be one thing if it was like, look, LA is a very big city, so you have one on the east side, you have one in Santa Monica, that’s smart. But this one’s right next to it.

Analyssa: Like The Friend and The Little Friend.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And also, again, I love this for her, but it still seems like such a weird choice for someone in recovery to want to open multiple bars. But I mean, that’s fine. I guess that’s her thing or whatever.

Analyssa: But her thing really that she’s says to Shane is like, I know we’re not going to do marriage and babies. This is another baby. Let’s have another baby.

Drew: I think they just need something that Shane can feel like, I’m being trapped. I think it’s really just like a plot point, which is why I didn’t think too hard about it. But yeah, Tess, for how charming Jamie Clayton is and how talented Jamie Clayton is. I find her Hellraiser more charming than… Tess is not my favorite character. Which, a character played by Jamie Clayton really could have been. Whether that person was cis or trans, separate from that issue, I don’t know. They don’t do that much with her.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: I just feel like she always has these ideas that I don’t like. And now she wants to buy a second lesbian bar next to the first lesbian bar. And I get it. We were all at Semi-Tropic on that night, the last party before the pandemic.

Drew: It was very crowded.

Riese: And it was packed.

Analyssa: Packed. There could have been overflow into the second bar.

Riese: If there’d been a second bar there…

Drew: That was one night though.

Riese: But that was one night. And it’s just like, what? They’re already really blowing everything out of the water making this one thing operate. You know what I mean? But it just logically doesn’t make sense to buy something that’s right next to it. Maybe that could be it’s, I don’t know if it’s going to be like, this is Peach Pit and this is the Peach Pit After Dark, which is a Beverly Hills 90210 reference that everybody over the age of 35 might get.

Analyssa: I vaguely got that.

Riese: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I think if they turn it into an ice skating rink, an arcade.

Drew: Ooh.

Riese: Yeah, exactly. Or…

Analyssa: A bowling alley.

Riese: A bowling alley. A bowling alley. Or I think maybe a dance space for performance art, for lesbian performance art.

Drew: Or it could be more of a club.

Riese: Or, yeah more of a club.

Drew: So maybe it will be, but yeah, they definitely need to do something a little bit different with it.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Right. Or they could blow it up.

Analyssa: Perfect.

Riese: That’s what Shane did to her last business.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Analyssa: Okay. Finley and Sophie have run off to go have fun and they’re playing strip basketball because there’s nothing this show loves more than a Love & Basketball reference, I feel. And I’ve seen… That’s another big thing that’s happened in the year since we recorded this, is now I’ve seen Love & Basketball.

Riese: And so have I!

Drew: Oh my God!

Analyssa: Oh my god! Okay that actually is huge.

Riese: Yeah, I watched it a month ago.

Drew: Wow, it’s just one of the best movies to ever be a movie.

Analyssa: I watched it a month ago too. Because last year I was doing my director project, but this year I’m doing rom-coms. Love & Basketball was on my list.

Riese: Oh, this year Gretchen was like, you really need to have seen Love & Basketball. And I was like, you’re right.

Analyssa: And she was right.

Drew: It’s incredible.

Riese: Yeah, she was right. It was amazing.

Analyssa: It’s so good.

Riese: Another thing that’s changed over this year is that Finley is wearing a different style of underwear than they previously wore.

Analyssa: That’s true. I did notice that.

Riese: Yeah. Anyway, she’s losing.

Analyssa: She’s losing. So she has no bra on, just underwear on. And they’re in public, which did make me nervous. But I’m happy for them that they’re having fun.

Riese: But they start hooking up. And everyone’s like, yes!

Analyssa: They’re running around having fun. And I do want to say, Sophie says, you’re still fun. And I know that it was meant to be sweet, but as a person who stopped drinking and was really anxious that everyone was secretly thinking, Ana’s not going to be fun anymore. I just twinge just a little bit I said, Ooh, ow, that hurt. But maybe Finley was like, amazing! Thank you for the reassurance. Because some people have more normal brains than I do. And then they start hooking up and Sophie’s like, I just want to go home and get in bed with you. And Finley’s like, I think I should catch a meeting. And this is another thing that I don’t really want to see the most, meetings as a source of conflict.

Drew: Mm-hmm.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Meetings are exactly one hour long. It’s like Catholic mass. There is a start, there is a process, there is an end. You get out, so really…

Riese: Also she could go to a later meeting. It felt like to me like that wasn’t really what was happening.

Drew: No, it felt like an excuse.

Analyssa: Well, and it is later, you find out. But if this becomes a little thing.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Jordi is visiting Angie.

Riese: And I don’t like her anymore either.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I am on Jordi’s side with this one. No one should stay together from high school…

Analyssa: Fair enough. But…

Drew: I don’t think she handled it well. I don’t know why we’ve had this year long gap, what’s been happening in there, whatever, whatever. But…

Riese: And also, if this is their first night alone, they should have at least had sex first.

Analyssa: They should’ve hooked up. But also,

Drew: No, she just shouldn’t have come over. This shouldn’t have happened her first night of college. Like that part of it’s, no.

Analyssa: I mean, what Angie said is true. Why didn’t we talk about this yesterday? Why didn’t we talk about this over the summer? Why are we… Also, is Jordi at California University? Is that the implication? Because then it’s like, are we going to see each other?

Drew: No, I don’t think so.

Analyssa: She just came to visit.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Is she, I don’t know why I thought she was a grade below.

Analyssa: Oh, I have no idea.

Riese: I just decided she was a grade below.

Analyssa: I do relate to, I’ve decided we have to break up so I’m emotionally shut down and just sort of saying words. That is relatable to me.

Drew: Yeah, that’s how I am. Yeah.

Analyssa: So… They have a really weird breakup fight because Jordi is doing the full shutdown and Angie’s going a little bit that angry kind of direction, which is just an odd conversational style to watch two people have. But they break up.

Drew: I’m excited. I’m excited to see Angie take on the college queer life.

Analyssa: She’s cool. She’s queer. She’s at college.

Riese: Sisterhood is powerful.

Analyssa: Sisterhood is powerful…

Drew: Sisterhood is so powerful.

Analyssa: …for us as lesbians.

Riese: For us as lesbians, I love this for her as a bisexual or queer, or whatever she is.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: We love it.

Drew: And one very sad rejection to one less sad rejection. Micah proposes and Maribel’s like, I don’t want to get married, but I do want a baby. Which again, this is why you should talk to your partners about life plans, about marriage, about kids, about all these things.

Riese: But imagine if this had happened on a jumbotron.

Drew: Wow. That would be quite the twist. I don’t think… No offense to sports fans in general, but I don’t think the average fan at a sporting event would understand the nuances of, I don’t really believe in marriage as a practice, but I love you and I want to be with you.

Analyssa: Let’s have a baby to bind ourselves together forever, but not actually be married and sign the paperwork. Totally. Totally.

Riese: Yeah. Although if they are going to have baby together, they should get married and sign the paperwork.

Drew: It would be a lot easier.

Analyssa: It’s actually just easier if you have a child…

Riese: Yeah. That’s eventually what they’re going to have to do anyway, so, but that’s fine.

Analyssa: Like, schools and stuff.

Riese: Who cares? It’s TV. It’s television. It’s just a TV show.

Analyssa: And then we get kind of the classic end montage, check-in with everybody. So Finley’s at a meeting and doing her share.

Riese: Finley’s doing her share.

Analyssa: Finley’s doing her share. And that kind of under-weaves, that’s not a word. I just made it up.

Drew: That made sense to me.

Analyssa: Kind of weaves through all the other characters’ check-ins.

Drew: Yeah, and Alice is on Taimi. A little product placement for the LGBTQ dating app, Taimi. This podcast is not brought to you by Taimi. So I can say that it’s not very good. We did a review of it on Autostraddle and it wasn’t one of the better ones.

Riese: Oh, so it’s been around for that long?

Analyssa: Was that one of the…

Drew: It’s been around.

Riese: Because I feel that was like for the dating down… What was that called?

Drew: Yeah, Dating Download? It’s been around for a couple years.

Riese: I really loved those.

Drew: Yeah. We just ran out of dating apps.

Analyssa: I did too. I thought they were fun.

Drew: And two of us got into relationships.

Analyssa: Okay. Brag.

Drew: You are also in a relationship.

Riese: We’re all in relationships.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Except Carol.

Drew: Oh, sorry Carol.

Riese: But Carol’s really independent.

Analyssa: I feel like Carol loves being single. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. If someone was like, Carol, do you want to get married? She’d be like, no, I want to have a baby. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: So Alice is on the dating app and changes her age preferences to…

Riese: She changes it from 25 to 41. Which is how old I am.

Analyssa: And I just want to say, when I was on dating apps, even I did not go down to 25. That’s just simply not for me. So I support her move.

Drew: Depends on how old I was, but I generally was a year or two younger than me.

Analyssa: I never went more than a year younger than me ever. I don’t have time for that, unfortunately.

Riese: I projected my own experience onto Alice’s and recalled that there was a time when I did have it set younger, even though I was older. And it was because this was right before all of our friends got divorced at the same time. But I was like, everyone my own age is taken. And I was like, so I don’t know what else to do.

Analyssa: Well…

Riese: Because when I put it into my age range. There’s no one here.

Analyssa: I was going to say, there’s actually nothing more disheartening than opening a dating app and it saying we’ve run out of people in your area that meet your requirements.

Riese: Yeah, and I’m like, I’m in LA.

Analyssa: What do you mean? Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, really? No one?

Analyssa: I’ve moved a city that I’m supposed to… What? It’s horribly demoralizing. So I actually do understand that impulse. But dating a 25 year old even sends a little shiver down my own spine. And I, maybe that’s just me being a jerk.

Riese: Unless you’re just looking to bone.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, that’s fine.

Riese: Although, I mean, I can’t imagine. I mean, how old is Alice supposed to be? Like 50?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That’s a choice.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s just a big gap.

Drew: That’s a real gap.

Riese: That’s a big gap.

Analyssa: So Alice is being honest about her age preferences. Also, the little song underneath says something about we’re afraid of aging or something, which really made me laugh.

Riese: Oh really? Oh yeah, we have the on the nose songs again this time. It’s like (singing) Finley’s at a meeting. Sophie’s going to bed.

Drew: (singing) Fucking fucking fucking.

Riese: (singing) Shane Shane Shane Shane.

Analyssa: (Singing) Carmen Carmen Carmen. I mean, what would we be without the needle drops? You know?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Shane is back at home looking at her old hair products and she’s…

Riese: Giving them a sniff.

Analyssa: Not wearing a bra. So really we’re back.

Drew: She was feeling very Shane today.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Very Shane today.

Riese: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And then Tess sidles up and she doesn’t say, what are those?

Analyssa: Nope.

Riese: She just goes in for the makeout.

Drew: Mm-hmm

Analyssa: Tess really wants to kiss this episode.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, Tess really wants to kiss.

Drew: I love that.

Riese: Yeah. I think that’s great.

Analyssa: Sometimes you want to kiss.

Riese: Yeah, it’s great. It’s showing, even after being together for a year and living with your mom, you can still want to hook up.

Drew: I think that’s beautiful.

Riese: That is beautiful. I love love.

Drew: Sophie gets a text from someone named Dre that says, “u up rainbow.”

Analyssa: The rainbow emoji.

Riese: The rainbow.

Analyssa: So you know that it’s queer sex that we’re looking for.

Riese: I just, first of all, I love that she’s getting a u up text. But secondly, what is that? Does she know…

Analyssa: That’s what I mean is what is the rainbow?

Drew: No, I think the rainbow means like, you up? You want to go find a pot of gold?

Riese: Oh yeah. Yeah, or it’s raining. Maybe there’ll be a rainbow afterwards.

Analyssa: You up? I have some lucky charms at home.

Drew: Ooh, that would be a great u up text.

Riese: You up? I have a Lisa Frank binder or I got a Hello Kitty watch or something like that.

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Analyssa: We did miss that Dani goes home to Gigi.

Drew: Oh yes.

Analyssa: And there’s like a cliffhanger of if Nat has said yes or no.

Riese: Yeah, but it’s one of those weird cliff hangers where you can see the actor knows there’s no more lines for them in the scene and they just have to sort of sit there.

Analyssa: That’s like when you go to a play and you know that the dialogue has been written overlapping, but they’re just like, stopping at that middle…

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Whatever. But yeah, and Dani says also that the event was a success and Bette has offered her a gallery job and Alice has offered her 100th episode. So she must be doing some event type coordinating.

Riese: Yeah. And I’ve offered her starting a camp for queer adults.

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Drew: Ooh, I love that.

Analyssa: Yeah. If she’s good at event planning…

Riese: So we’re nailing down the contract now.

Drew: I love that she’s moved on from maybe being a Sackler to being the party planner of queer Los Angeles.

Riese: Yeah, I love that, first of all, I hope we never ever have to talk about any of that stuff ever again.

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: My favorite thing about The L Word is when they just drop a plot or a character like a hot potato or like an incarcerated potato.

Drew: I do recommend the documentary, All the Beauty and the Bloodshed about Nan Goldin and her fight against the Sacklers. That is my recommendation. Famous queer photographer, Nan Goldin, activist, incredible person, really made it so the Sacklers cannot have a name in the art world. Highly recommend the documentary and that hopefully is the last time that there’s any reason to talk about the Sacklers on this podcast.

Riese: Okay, because she did say earlier in the episode, she was like, it’s been the hardest year of my life. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t care.

Analyssa: Right. Again, I’m just going to accept that as truth. I actually don’t.

Drew: I fully believe it.

Analyssa: Great.

Riese: Yeah. I mean Gigi’s hair is different now. Did you notice that?

Analyssa: They both look so beautiful.

Drew: Yeah. Was there anything else in that montage?

Analyssa: I think that’s it. And then the big thing that everyone has been waiting and praying and hoping and sitting and wishing for…

Riese: Wishing and hoping and, you know the song.

Analyssa: That one.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So Tina and Bette left the function earlier, which we did forget to say. Because Tina’s like, do you want to…

Riese: They took that deer and ran.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah. One of them is like, do you want to get out of here? And the other one wants to say yes so fast that we didn’t even finish the sentence. So now they’re back at Bette’s home and they’re just talking about the things that have happened in the last year. Bette has reconnected with her mom.

Riese: Right, who we all thought was dead. So that’s big news for us.

Analyssa: Right, she just left.

Riese: It’s zombie news. Yeah.

Analyssa: It turns out.

Riese: She just left. Yeah. That was redone and that’s neat.

Analyssa: And then, that she went to the silent retreat that she failed before.

Drew: This made me laugh. What a silly choice for Bette the character, for The L Word writers. What a silly, silly choice.

Riese: Also, because the last time she was at the silent retreat, Tim- Tina was at home. Tim. Wow, Freudian slip. Tina was at home banging Henry.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right, yup.

Riese: And Dana was dying.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: What a sad time for all of us. And Carmen and Shane were unhappy with each other and not having a nice time.

Drew: Fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting.

Riese: Fighting, fighting, fighting. Yeah. Yeah. Breaking up, breaking up, getting married, getting married.

Analyssa: So Bette committed to the silent retreat and this time found that it worked its magic.

Riese: Yeah. She was silent.

Analyssa: She did it.

Drew: They say that this was one of the best days of their life.

Analyssa: I also was like, how can that be true? How can that be true?

Riese: Right? They once go on a trip and get food poisoning.

Analyssa: It was just a regular day.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I guess, if this is the start of their rekindled romance and they’re together for decades, then I could see them looking back and being like, that was one of the best days of my…

Analyssa: You’re doing a great old woman voice.

Drew: Thank you so much. I don’t know why they’re becoming on Downton Abbey, but that… I’ve never watched Downton Abbey, so if that was wrong, I’m sorry.

Analyssa: Okay, appropriation.

Drew: But yeah, it was very baffling to me.

Analyssa: I agree. I had the same thought where I was like…

Drew: But, lesbians are so dramatic.

Analyssa: I think that they’re just, we did talk about this really recently actually. But I do think that they’re just being really gay for each other and being like, this is going to be one of the most important days of my life because we’ve rekindled whatever it is here. So this is the best day of my life. It brought me you, you know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But this is the fourth time they’ve rekindled. What about the first time, they had stir fry and then they had sex. There was another time Tina was pregnant, they banged her in the kitchen.

Drew: Also, stir fry is delicious.

Riese: Stir fry is delicious. What are they eating here? Literally nothing, no one’s eaten anything this entire fucking episode.

Analyssa: That’s true.

Riese: Everyone’s starving. Everyone’s hungry.

Analyssa: That’s true.

Drew: I’m hungry too. I just smelled pizza outside.

Riese: I’m also, yeah, we’re all hungry. I feel like we’ve seen Bette and Tina have some pretty nice times, haven’t we?

Drew: Yeah, if you were Bette or Tina, what would you think would be the best day of your life?

Analyssa: I don’t have a memory for The L Word the way that you two do, but there has to be something like a gallery opening or I don’t know, Tina’s show is in its ninth season. There’s not any job stuff for…

Drew: I was going to say they have a child.

Riese: Their wedding? They got married at some point.

Analyssa: The day that Angie was born?

Riese: Oh yeah, that was nice. That was a nice day. Except that Jenny had a hard time that day.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And so that was hard for me, personally.

Analyssa: Seeing Angie go off to college. I guess, ostensibly that was today.

Drew: That’s this day, so that makes sense.

Riese: That was today. But what about their wedding day?

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: I mean, they say one of. So maybe also, what did I say? I said something was one of the best movies of all time. And my friend was like, you always say that. And I was like, yeah, it’s in my top 600. I have a list on Letterboxd that’s like 650 movies and one of them is…

Riese: Muppets Take Manhattan.

Drew: No, there’s no Muppets movies on there. I’m sorry.

Analyssa: Oh well that seems like a miss.

Drew: Yeah, well, I’m not perfect.

Analyssa: If it’s 650 movies long.

Drew: There’s a lot of movies in the world. That’s everything I’ve given four and a half or five stars to on Letterboxd.

Analyssa: I guess so. Okay, so…

Drew: They kiss.

Analyssa: They kiss. Well first, I do want to say, they touch fingers.

Drew: Yes, of course.

Riese: Yeah, there’s a little fingering.

Analyssa: There’s a real hands walking over to the couch. And as someone who in the last year has reconciled with an ex, I do want to say, I do think that’s actually a critical part of the process.

Drew: The fingers touching?

Riese: The fingers?

Analyssa: The hands next to each other and you kind of ease them closer. That’s a big part of it.

Drew: Yeah. I love that.

Analyssa: Just for me personally, I felt represented by that.

Riese: Yeah. I felt like, wow, they must really be like, this feels familiar. And that’s probably really nice.

Analyssa: Yeah. So they kiss, they start kissing. Tina’s like, I must leave the finger touching becomes too much. She says she has to leave and then instead they kiss. And then…

Riese: With tongue, I think.

Analyssa: I think with tongue, yeah.

Drew: I think there was definitely a French kiss.

Analyssa: A hint of a tongue.

Riese: Yes, it was definitely from Paris.

Drew: From the region of…

Riese: From the land of the foyer.

Analyssa: I knew we were going to try to make an it’s only champagne if it’s from Champagne. And then Angie comes in.

Drew: Mm-hmm.

Analyssa: Clearly looking for…

Riese: Jordi help.

Analyssa: Yeah, help on her relationship status. And instead sees her two moms kissing.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I don’t think there’s anything that could be more damaging to getting over your first queer heartbreak than being like, oh, queer people get back together after long periods of time? Separate from the shock of seeing your mothers making out. That part of it would be so in my head I’d be like, well my parents got back together so Jordi and I are going to be endgame.

Analyssa: We could do it. There will someday be signs in Los Angeles.

Drew: Jorngie?

Riese: Jorgelina. Jorgelica.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Don’t you think it’s just Angi, with just an I?

Drew: Oh, probably. That’s confusing.

Analyssa: Maybe it’s Andi.

Drew: Andi. Andi’s obviously the best thing. Thank you for that.

Riese: Yeah. What were we talking about?

Drew: I think we’re done and that’s it. She says what the fuck.

Analyssa: Angie comes in and says what the fuck.

Riese: She says, you got to be fucking kidding.

Analyssa: Oh, that’s right.

Drew: Oh, thank you. Sorry. Wow.

Analyssa: Geez. Amateur hour.

Riese: Please guys, wow.

Analyssa: It’s amateur hour here.

Riese: It’s like you haven’t already seen it three times.

Analyssa: I’ve seen it once.

Drew: I’ve seen it once too.

Riese: I’ve seen it three times.

Drew: I believe that.

Riese: Thank you. Believe women.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Or whatever I am.

Drew: Support… Wait, what did her shirt say?

Riese: Sisterhood is powerful.

Analyssa: Sisterhood is powerful.

Drew: Sisterhood is powerful, yes, it’s clear it is.

Riese: And if we could leave you with any message today, it’s sisterhood is powerful. But also that’s the episode.

Drew: Mm-hmm.

Analyssa: That’s it. Do you think sisterhood is powerful is this season’s for us as lesbians?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It might be.

Riese: It might be. But we should keep for us as lesbians too.

Analyssa: I do love that one. That’s so good.

Drew: Well, what did we think of this episode?

Analyssa: I had fun.

Drew: I had fun too.

Analyssa: I enjoyed it. I know that we nitpick, but the point is to talk about the show. I had a great time, actually.

Riese: The point of the podcast is to talk about the show.

Analyssa: I don’t know if you guys know.

Riese: I don’t know if you know.

Drew: Yeah, I think sometimes people get upset and it’s like, well, right. If you want us to just give plot points, you could watch the show. It’s on Showtime. But, we’re going to give a little analysis.

Analyssa: Our ads say it’s on Showtime, the show.

Drew: It’s on Showtime.

Riese: But I also do think that part of really digging into a TV show, whether you’re doing a podcast or recap, you have to come up with things to say. You know what I mean? So, you really end up, I watched all of L Word season one, season two. Loved every minute of it, even the bad parts. Thought it was great. And then because I didn’t start recapping until season three. And then once I started doing the podcast and we were doing season one, season two, suddenly I had all these critiques. Because I wasn’t just sitting there watching it, I was trying to fill up an hour of podcast.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: I think maybe gay soap operas aren’t meant to be deeply analyzed and watched a million times. But, people enjoy listening to that. So what I’m saying is that we’re kind of heroes?

Analyssa: Yeah. Actually…

Drew: We’re sacrificing our own enjoyment…

Analyssa: We’re geniuses.

Drew: In order to give you more enjoyment. And I just want you to pause right now on your commute or wherever you’re listening to this and just think about how special we are.

Riese: And how funny I am. Me.

Drew: Yes, specifically.

Analyssa: Yeah. More than anything else.

Riese: Yeah, well, but how funny all of us are. I think that’s important.

Drew: That was big of you.

Riese: So you just think about that.

Drew:Yeah. There’s things that I’m like, a lot of my old frustrations are still there, but I had a whole period of time where I thought the show was canceled. I got to really sort of reflect and think.

Analyssa: Wow, you had a Bette Porter year.

Drew: I really had a Bette Porter year.

Analyssa: It sounds like you’ve done some personal growth.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I’m Bette getting rearended by The L Word: Generation Q and going, nah, fuck it. The world’s ending, we’re all going to die.

Analyssa: We’re all dying. What’s a bumper? That’s how I feel.

Riese: Exactly.

Analyssa: I’m excited…

Riese: That’s what I wish the guy who I had run into his bumper had said to me instead of ruining my life.

Analyssa: Sure, yeah that probably would have been good.

Riese: Because, honestly, there was barely even a dent. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah. That probably would have been good for you. I’m excited. I’m excited to see, I know that I will be annoyed every week, but I am actually excited to see a recovery storyline. I think they’re really going to have Finley go to meetings and do the things and maybe they won’t and that will also probably be fine. But I don’t know, that could be fun. Not fun but meaningful.

Drew: Mm-hmm.

Riese: I just hope she doesn’t relapse because I think, I don’t even know if I hated relapse storylines until you talked about it on one of our podcast episodes. Whatever it was you said, you convinced me and now I don’t want to see them anymore.

Analyssa: Yeah. I don’t love them, but I am excited. I don’t know, I would love to see Alice have fun.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I love Alice.

Drew: I’m excited for Alice’s looking for the one. I’m also excited for Angie at college, especially in breakup mode. Oh, what a great time to be chaotic in breakup mode.

Analyssa: Honestly, she seems sad, but she doesn’t know that the first few months of college, there’re so many things to do. If that’s what you want to be doing, great. Go off.

Riese: I was mostly crying.

Analyssa: I was mostly watching, I watched nine seasons of Grey’s Anatomy my freshman fall, so I wasn’t doing that.

Drew: I went to nightclubs that cost $20. It’s the only time, I mean I was going to school in New York, so I was trying to be that person for a brief period of time.

Analyssa: That’s bananas.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I’m wondering if, is it going to be like Bette and Tina are now together and the finale of this season, is them getting married? Or is it going to be…

Riese: Remarried.

Drew: Yes. Or is it going to be like a slow burn? There’s some reason why they can’t, are we going to go back and forth? I’m interested to see about what that approach is. And then, I’m very excited that Kehlani’s there. I hope it’s more interesting though than just a Shane cheats or resists cheating storyline. But honestly, if Kehlani’s there, I’m watching, I’m happy, I’m into it.

Riese: I’m excited for Joey Lauren Adams.

Analyssa: I was going to say we have some exciting guest stars too.

Drew: Oh, also, when is Rosie coming back?

Analyssa: And what’s Fletcher going to do?

Riese: I think it’s episode three that Rosie comes back.

Drew: I mean she’s busy like running her speakeasy lesbian bar in the forties.

Riese: In A League of Their Own. Yeah, maybe they should have, have the second bar be forties themed.

Drew: Ooh.

Riese: My dream for the season is that they never open the second bar and that whole storyline just dies.

Analyssa: What if it’s that Tess does buy the second bar, then Tess and Shane break up. And then we have, what was the rivalry in the original?

Drew: Ooh!

Riese: Oh, SheBar?

Analyssa: Yeah, SheBar and the… Weren’t there…

Riese: SheBar and The Planet.

Analyssa: Feuding bars and they’re right next door to each other.

Riese: So they should call it Jenny’s.

Analyssa: That could be kind of fun.

Drew: Oh, that would be fun. I’d be into that.

Riese: Yeah. They should call it Jenny’s and put a pool in it.

Drew: Ooh, that’s…

Riese: You know that bar in New Orleans where they have a pool.

Analyssa: No.

Riese: Well…

Drew: Did someone die in the pool? Because…

Riese: No, but now in my mind I’m thinking about American Horror Story.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: In the bathhouse as people murder, spoiler alert.

Analyssa: Spoilers for American Horror Story.

Riese: Yeah, no, I’m pretty stoked for this season. I will acknowledge that I have seen some future episodes and that episodes three and four are really fun.

Drew: Cool.

Analyssa: Fun.

Drew: I love that.

Riese: Yeah. Especially episode four.

Analyssa: We’ll look forward to that.

Riese: And there are some fun people coming back.

Drew: Nice. I love that. How exciting. And more than anything, I’m just happy to be back here with both of you.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely.

Analyssa: The real L Word was the friends we made along the way.

Riese: It was.

Analyssa: 3, 2, 1, quivering.

Drew: Quite.

Riese: Quince meat.

Drew: What’d you say?

Riese: I said quince meat, which is the favorite sandwich of students at California University.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Right. Obviously.

Riese: Yeah, you’re welcome.

Analyssa: I said quivering, like with anticipation.

Drew: I said quite because I’m quite happy to be here talking about this show.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Riese: Oh my god, wow.

Analyssa: Look at what we did.

Riese: Wow. We’re so full of optimism.

Analyssa: It happens every year.

Riese: It does.

Analyssa: So excited.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah, me too. It does feel like they’re putting a lot into it this year though. More so than in previous years. Like with guest stars and advertising and all that stuff.

Drew: Yeah. They’re trying.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: But most of all, I’d like to thank our sponsor Showtime. Yeah, you guys should…

Analyssa: Watch The L Word.

Riese: Take care of yourselves and we’ll be back with you next week to discuss the next episode of this program.

Analyssa: You have a good ASMR podcast voice.

Riese: I do?

Analyssa: I think so.

Riese: I sound like a Jew with a cold. And we’re out.

Drew: And we’re out.

“To L and Back” Podcast Episode 210: Last Call

Get on in here to listen to the last episode of To L and Back of the season! Last week I said that things were starting to get capital-S Serious and well, I wasn’t wrong. Relive the head-spinning relationship escalations of Tess/Shane and Alice/Tom! Yell with us about Finley’s intervention! And obviously, obviously, let’s all gasp together about that ending! And friends, because it is our final episode of the season, I will be honest and brave in this post and say: I did not dislike this episode as much as my pals Drew and Riese!

But more than anything I will be honest and say we’ve had such a blast recapping this often infuriating, always entertaining television program this season, and we hope you had a blast listening. If we made you laugh or cry or even just roll your eyes, please consider donating to the Autostraddle fundraiser! And let’s all keep our fingers crossed for another season, because as Riese says, even when we hate it…we love it!

SHOW NOTES

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is—

Drew, Riese, and Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Riese: The final chapter.

Drew: At least of Season 2, but maybe forever.

Riese: Yeah, it hasn’t been renewed yet.

Drew: But maybe by the time this episode comes out, it will have been.

Analyssa: And they’re really asking for that renewal at the end of this episode, aren’t they?

Riese: Yeah, they’re really submitting a strong bid to the people for a renewal of the series. But you know, like the 10th commandment, it is over for the season. Do you know what I mean?

Drew: Like there were 10 commandments, there are 10 episodes of the season.

Riese: Yeah. Exactly.

Analyssa: They could’ve named every episode after one of the commandments.

Riese: Exactly. They should have. And this one would have been, “Though shall not covet thy neighbor’s wife.”

Analyssa: That was a really good pull.

Riese: Oh my God, I’ve peaked, I’m done.

Analyssa: All I could think of was steal or lie, and I was like, well—

Riese: What’s the one that’s really weird and specific to the olden days?

Drew: I was just thinking, there are 10? Wow.

Analyssa: I tried to do this before because, Catholicism, I don’t know.

Riese: I’ll have to watch the film. Maybe I’m thinking of how there’s one of the Bill of Rights is weird. The one about how you shouldn’t be forced to have an army in your house.

Analyssa: How you can’t be forced to quarter a soldier. One of the 10 commandments was like, you can’t be forced to have God in your home, I guess. Yeah, there’s the one about false idols, which is always kind of interesting to me.

Riese: Oh, yeah. Maybe that’s… Yeah.

Analyssa: Which is kind of you actually can’t—

Riese: Kind of dated.

Analyssa: …have God in your home.

Drew: I have seen both 10 commandments movies, the silent one and the one from the 50s with Charlton Heston, so. Fun facts.

Riese: Wow. Well, I’ve seen a number of movies starring Kristen Stewart.

Drew: Well, that’s nice. And we’ve all seen this episode of Gen Q, which is episode 2:10, Last Call. It is directed by Marja-Lewis Ryan. It is written by Marja and Christina Brosman. Christina Brosman is a new writer on the season and is a new writer on television in general. Her previous credits are showrunner’s assistant on Girls and writer’s assistant on Camping. So this person is coming from Lena Dunham land, which I will present without comment.

Analyssa: Should we do it?

Drew: Yeah, let’s get into the episode.

Riese: Well, I’m already upset.

Drew: Because of the intervention?

Riese: An intervention is a last ditch, after someone has failed at sobriety multiple times. And the point of the intervention is for people to share specific details about how this person’s addiction has harmed them, which they refuse to do.

Analyssa: I want just upfront to say that I have decided to rebrand. I’m leading with love and light this episode. I was drinking a cookies and cream milkshake while I watched it.

Riese: That’s so nice.

Drew: Oo, that’s smart.

Analyssa: That kind of improved the experience. And I just feel ready, once again, to lead with love and light. I just wanted you to know that going in.

Drew: I’m going to still be an angry bitch.

Analyssa: And that’s totally fine. I think it will be good for all of our balances.

Riese: Yeah, I’m going to be leading with love and light, but I’m going to fail at it, and I’ve already failed.

Analyssa: No, I agree. It really genuinely does not make any sense. However, since I was, as aforementioned, leading with love and light, I have just simply decided that this is a story that they wanted to tell. I don’t understand why it’s happening, and I’ve simply decided to not think about it too much.

Riese: Okay. That’s going to be tough for the podcast.

Analyssa: So true. I’m just going to keep going. I have no thoughts.

Drew: That sounds so pleasant. Just like Alice brought a meat and cheese plate, and you’re just like, “Yeah, she did.”

Analyssa: She did. And I loved that. The thing about it is like, Riese, I think you said this in your recap, there’s so many ways for Finley to have realized that she has hit a bottom, that we haven’t seen a ton of on television that could have been really interesting and nuanced. She could have had to go to AA as a result of her drunk driving ticket or felony or misdemeanor, whatever the outcome of that was.

Riese: I think it was a misdemeanor.

Analyssa: I guess it is a misdemeanor, right?

Riese: Because she would’ve had bail if it had been a felony. Although maybe she did and they just left that out. And also it would have only been a felony if she’d breathed really, really, really, really high, because it would be her first offense and she didn’t injure anyone, so.

Analyssa: There are so many other ways for her to have realized that she does in fact have a problem and be kind of taken aback by that and knocked out of her seat. And instead, we’ve skipped, once again, like 16 steps, and we’re like, “The only way for an alcoholic to know that they’ve hit rock bottom is all their friends circle them up and tell them that,” which is just—

Riese: And it’s not going to work for Finley, because she’s just going to feel embarrassed. It’s also not going to work in so far as, again, you do an intervention when someone has failed at sobriety multiple times.

Analyssa: This was kind of the thing I was trying to get to with the Sophie big fight too, where I kept being like Finley’s just going to say, “What the fuck are you talking about?”

Riese: Yeah, “Like give me an example of what—”

Analyssa: This hasn’t been broached ever, except for in this drunk fight with Sophie, and that seems to be the extent of it. So to have someone walk into a room and be met with a lot of people who are like, “We’re really worried about you. We think that this is important for you to go off to an inpatient program,” is such a wild jump.

Riese: Leap.

Analyssa: Anyway, Alice did bring a meat and cheese plate, which I loved.

Riese: She also points … She’s like, “I’m just in my 20s.” Well, first of all, she says like, “It was just one night,” and then Micah is like, “It’s not just one night,” and I was like, “Oh really? Tell me more.” No. But she was like, “What about you guys in your 20s?” And she said that to Shane, and I was like, that’s not a bad point because what did Shane do for the entire original series every time she was upset? Alcohol and drugs. Cops had showed up, which is the sign of whether or not you’re an alcoholic, is that the cops are there, she would have been charged with a felony DUI. She did crash a car while drunk and on coke into a highway overpass and stumbled home with blood on her face.

Analyssa: Sophie says she thinks it feels fast, and I was like, I agree.

Riese: Yeah. Finally.

Analyssa: Here we are. Yes. Thank you.

Riese: But also, Alice being like—

Finley: I mean, what the fuck were your 20s like, dude?
Shane: No, don’t do that.
Alice: Mine were amazing.

Riese: So funny.

Analyssa: There are some really good lines in the last three episodes, where we’re like, “This doesn’t make any sense.” That’s true. They do get their little quips off, and good for them.

Drew: I really liked Finley saying—

Finley: Is there a German word for a surprise party with like, really bad vibes?

Drew: I enjoyed that line.

Analyssa: My note was, “the general word is intervention.” That is by definition a surprise party with horrible vibes.

Drew: Yeah. So Finley’s like, “I’m not going to this fancy rehab facility that Alice is going to pay for,” and is like, “Bye.”

Riese: Which I think is because of how it was broached more so than I think — because first of all, who wouldn’t go to a fancy… I mean, she’s basically sending her to a spa. Even if you weren’t addicted to anything, you would say yes, but she’s humiliated.

Drew: It doesn’t make any sense

Analyssa: You know who is not leading with love and light? All of these people in this room. There’s no attempt to explain why they’re worried about her. There’s no time to explain the—

Riese: Yeah, why are they worried about her? How has their drinking affected any of them?

Analyssa: What the scary nights are, why we’re doing this now.

Riese: What?

Analyssa: So of course she doesn’t want to go and she storms out.

Drew: Yeah. Then we go to Bette and Pippa in bed.

Analyssa: They’re deciding which rhinestone cowboy hats to wear to the CAC gala tonight.

Drew: And I at this point in my notes wrote, “Imagine if she chooses Tina, LMAO.”

Analyssa: I want these two women to be together in a big way, and that’s simply not what my future is. Even from this scene, you can tell.

Riese: When Pippa’s getting dressed and putting on her oversized flannel and fussing with her hair, she looked really cute.

Analyssa: She’s so beautiful.

Drew: I mean, I don’t want to be shallow, and I don’t want to be mean to Laurel Holloman or Tina, but it’s just—

Analyssa: Even not a comparison. She’s extremely beautiful. She’s emotionally—

Riese: Wildly talented.

Analyssa: Wildly talented. Bette has been obsessed with her for years. First of all, you’ve landed your biggest celebrity crush.

Drew: Like, what?

Analyssa: She’s emotionally available and competent.

Riese: This is it. This is the jackpot. You’ve hit it.

Analyssa: Also, remember this list that Bette had at the beginning of this season of all the qualities? We’ve done it. We checked them all.

Drew: Yeah. Imagine if I was dating Desiree Akhavan, and I was like, “You know what I’m going to do? Steal my ex from Rosie O’Donnell.” No, how thrilling? My ex is with Rosie O’Donnell and we get to all hang out and I’m dating Desiree Akhavan? That’d be amazing.

Riese: Yeah. That’s the dream right there. Also, Bette does something that I do all the time, which is, she tries to make a statement that she thinks will be cute to Pippa. She’s like, “I’d feel even better if you were there,” and then Pippa’s like, “Really?”

Analyssa: What does that mean? Say more.

Riese: And then I’m always like, “Oh, damn it. That’s not what I meant to say.” But she basically is like, “My instinct is that you still have feelings for Tina.” And you know what? Carrie has that same instinct, and also Drew has that same instinct.

Analyssa: And you know what they say about instincts, three instincts do not make a wrong.

Riese: Yeah, three instincts make one intervention, and everyone gets spa water. And that is the circle of life.

Analyssa: The other thing that happens here is that Bette takes a call from Tina, and Angie doesn’t want to go to Marcus’s funeral is what we learn.

Riese: Yeah, I don’t think she should have to go to his funeral.

Drew: I don’t think so either.

Analyssa: I also don’t think that. Speaking of Angie, I would like everyone to take a moment to welcome back to the stage caring, thoughtful girlfriend, Jordi.

Drew: Yes. Prom is over and she is back focused on being her actual character that was established in season one.

Analyssa: She’s attentive, she’s receptive.

Riese: She was just like a prom-zilla, right?

Analyssa: But she seems to have bounced back from losing prom incredibly fast.

Riese: Absolutely. Yeah. You have to bounce back from losing prom. Again, Drew bounced back from losing prom.

Drew: I did. And I really lost prom.

Analyssa: Yeah, you lost prom in total. We didn’t have prom queen campaigns at my high school. It was a write-in-ballot. Everyone was thought to—

Riese: Oh, ours was you pulled names out of a hat.

Drew: Oh, wow.

Analyssa: You went to such a strange school, I forget all the time. Angie is puttering around doing planning for some weekend trip where she wants to share a room with Jordi. Hello? And Kayla texted her saying that she wants to see her, and Angie is freaking out about whether she wants her to go to the funeral, and then Jordi comforts her. And as we’ve stated on this podcast, we love a hug between girlfriends.

Riese: A nice loving hug.

Drew: Jordi goes full Goodwill Hunting, and just keeps being like, “It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault.”

Analyssa: Speaking of girlfriends, Gigi and Dani both have some very high-necked blouses on.

Riese: Yeah, they look fantastic. They look like they’re about to go step on some girls on the internet.

Drew: Oh, I wish I was that girl on the internet.

Analyssa: God, I wish that were me. So they’re walking in for court. Although I did note that this was a little bit close to when Bette and Jodi matched that one episode, and so then I got a little nervous.

Riese: Yeah. The episode, the endless breakup.

Drew: Oh boy.

Analyssa: It wasn’t color scheme matching, but the necks on the blouses were just a little too close for comfort.

Riese: It was a little Romy and Michele.

Analyssa: Oh, that’s fun.

Riese: Apparently, Dani’s meeting Gigi’s family tonight, and that’s exciting. And then I guess Dani, she’s going to trial and someone walks by and is like, “Your dad is guilty,” or something.

Analyssa: And fully shoulder checks her. It’s very high school locker room.

Riese: What is her dad charged with?

Drew: Well, eventually we’ll find out that he’s killed a bunch of people.

Riese: Yeah. And this is not what they established in season one.

Drew: No. No. And there’s no talk at this point of any of the morality of any of it. So at this point, I’m like, what? I guess we’ll solve it somehow, sort of. I don’t understand what the show … If it is as bad as they then frame it to be, then Dani is terrible.

Riese: Yeah. Dani should not be—

Drew: For even considering going along with it. We’ll get to it, good for her, I guess, but like, what?

Riese: If this is what they were doing, why didn’t they tell a whistleblower story? That would’ve been so much more exciting. And they could’ve had a protest of 10 to 15 people with signs drawn, hand-drawn by Bette Porter with lots of colors.

Drew: Oh, which I realized when I was pulling the stills for socials, that the way they say the chant in the protests in the last episode is weird. They don’t do like, “Hey, hey, ho, ho,” they just go, “Hey, ho,” and the beat is off. Anyways, that’s not important, but—

Riese: It is. It is important.

Analyssa: Gigi has to do a quick emotional check-in because she has to do one of those before noon every day or she will wither up and die. I don’t know.

Drew: And I do love that for her.

Analyssa: And I thought it was very funny that Dani was like—

Dani: If I need anything, I’ll ask, ok?
Gigi: Ok.

Analyssa: Gigi has fully therapized her.

Drew: It’s beautiful.

Analyssa: And then Gigi does one of the things I really dislike on TV, but as Drew knows, I don’t talk to myself very frequently. Drew does. Sorry.

Drew: No, you can reveal that.

Analyssa: And I don’t love on TV when someone delivers a line that’s supposed to go to the person. Dani goes, “I’ll let you know if I need anything,” turns around and walks away. And she simply cannot hear Gigi at this point, and Gigi goes—

Gigi: I hope that’s true.

Analyssa: I don’t know why, it just bugs me.

Drew: I would do that.

Analyssa: I don’t think it’s how people speak.

Drew: I think I might. But you can be bothered by me.

Analyssa: Well, it wouldn’t bother me because I wouldn’t know that you were doing it.

Riese: You wouldn’t even know.

Drew: Right. Great point.

Riese: You guys could have had so many conversations that you don’t even know. Who knows what your relationship really is?

Analyssa: What pithy one-liners is Drew getting off when I go to my room.

Drew: I would only do it if it was like … I don’t know. It’s probably because I’ve watched so much television that there are things that people don’t do but now I do them because they’re on television.

Riese: I started talking to myself during the pandemic.

Analyssa: I make a lot of little noises.

Riese: Because I realized—

Analyssa: I’m like a “boop boop boop beep” kind of person, instead of an out loud vocal reactor.

Riese: I just realized I could be talking to myself, and why not?

Analyssa: Yeah. You can be your own best friend.

Riese: Sometimes I found now if I’m really upset at somebody, instead of actually telling them I’m upset about them, which would get us closer to solving the problem, I just talk to them all day out loud, alone, revising my monologue that I will deliver to them, but I don’t. Yeah, so that’s one way to really thrive.

Drew: Let me know how that works out for you.

Riese: Yeah, I’m doing actually fantastic. So then—

Drew: Speaking of people who are doing fantastic.

Riese: Bang, bang, bang, time.

Drew: Shane and Tess are fucking.

Analyssa: Getting it on.

Drew: And then Tess brings up Finley while they’re fucking, and that is a choice that I wouldn’t make.

Riese: She’s like, “We have to fire Finley because we’re enabling her by letting her work at the bar.” Tess is really sticking… Who Finley is, what Finley needs, that’s not relevant. What’s relevant is her preconceived notions about what a person needs to get better, and she is going to impose them on this situation regardless. And that is dedication.

Drew: It feels like the writers read a WikiHow article about your friend’s an alcoholic and have just been going from there.

Riese: They definitely didn’t read one called How To Do An Intervention, because if they had, they would’ve seen that they shouldn’t do one and that that wouldn’t apply to this situation.

Drew: Maybe they didn’t even read a WikiHow article, they just watched a bunch of movies where other people had not read WikiHow articles.

Riese: I honestly think they watched Intervention.

Drew: Oh no.

Riese: You know the TV show, Intervention?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I know it. I was going to say, maybe they’ve watched the Intervention episode of Private Practice, but I actually think that’s a great episode, so I would never bring it up here in this context.

Riese: Another great intervention episode is “L’Ennui” from season one of The L Word, when they have an intervention with Tina and Bette about how boring they are.

Drew: Oh, that is a fun one.

Riese: I thought of that often during this episode and how fun that was.

Drew: You were like, “I wish I was watching that.”

Riese: So she literally interrupts Shane to talk about, which is awful. And then now that that’s already been ruined, then her mom calls and she says they need to hire a new GM. And then she’s moving to Las Vegas. They can do long distance. It seems like a good option.

Drew: Yeah, it seems like a great option.

Riese: Great option.

Analyssa: It’s a really short distance, by the way.

Drew: I’m in a long distance relationship right now. That person’s in another country.

Riese: I am too. My girlfriend lives in Santa Monica.

Drew: Exactly.

Analyssa: Santa Monica on a bad day is about as far from here as Vegas, I think.

Riese: It feels as far. It does feel as far as Vegas. And the other thing about Vegas is that, and I apologize to anyone who lives there, I will say I have been there like 20 times. I dated someone who was from there, so I’ve stayed there extensive periods of time, so I’m not speaking from ignorance. I would not want to live there really.

Drew: In Vegas?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair. And I don’t imagine it would be a great place for Shane either.

Analyssa: More to the point, Shane owns a whole bar in Los Angeles. Physically—

Riese: Yeah. This is probably where a therapist is.

Analyssa: She owns a whole business. It’s not just like, “Oh, I could find another job.” What are we going to do with the bar?

Drew: Also, this is maybe callous, but where are we led to believe Tess’ mom is at as far as her health? Is she dying?

Analyssa: How long is this trip going to be? What is the—

Riese: And speaking of time, which we shouldn’t, because I have now analyzed the full scope of time on this series and it will be better if we just ignore it, Tess and Shane have been dating for, I don’t know, a week?

Analyssa: Yes. But you have to remember that they’ve been in love since the first moment they saw each other.

Riese: That’s true. So that was about two months ago.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. She says they can do long distance. She does ask Shane to go with her.

Riese: I would never do that, ever. I would never ask anyone to come with me.

Drew: I mean, if someone was my partner of four years, maybe.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. But someone of two weeks?

Drew: That’s insane.

Riese: I would be like, this is definitely going to freak them out.

Analyssa: I feel embarrassed that I asked Drew and Alex to move in with me, and we’ve been friends for years.

Drew: I’m really glad you did.

Analyssa: I am too. But sometimes I’m like—

Drew: And it was also, I was looking for a place.

Analyssa: Right. There were reasons.

Drew: You didn’t ask me to move to Vegas with you. I would’ve said, no. Actually, I did have a new girlfriend ask me to move to Vegas with her, and I said, yes. And then I started having panics about it and was like, “I can’t do it.” And then I didn’t move to Vegas.

Analyssa: To Vegas specifically?

Drew: Yeah. Which is interesting. I can’t believe I didn’t think about that until this very moment. I’ve lived so much life.

Analyssa: I do think there’s a shared queer experience here of being asked to move somewhere or asking someone to move somewhere a little prematurely. Saying that gently because I’ve done it. Anyway, something I’ve never done is watch Great British Bake Off, but—

Drew: Oh, I have.

Analyssa: So is Alice.

Drew: Yes. Alice is doing a bit with Paul Hollywood. We don’t see Paul Hollywood, he does not make a cameo. That would’ve been very bizarre and fun.

Riese: Yeah, that would’ve been a funny… They didn’t have any cameos this season, really.

Drew: Not really.

Riese: Oh wait, they did. Lena Waithe.

Drew: We didn’t have any people being themselves like we did last year. We didn’t get to see Alice interview someone on her show except old lesbians, who might’ve been their real selves. We never settled that.

Riese: They weren’t.

Drew: They weren’t.

Riese: I found them in the casting call.

Drew: Oh wow.

Riese: So I don’t even know if they were gay.

Drew: Wow. Betrayal.

Analyssa: Alice comes off stage and is talking to Sophie about her last days on set and says that Sophie can stay at her place while she goes on her book tour. And Sophie’s like, “I’m not moving out. Why would I?”

Riese: What I like is no one ever answers these questions.

Drew: No, no.

Analyssa: What I like is that… No, what I don’t like is that Sophie should’ve just taken her up on that regardless.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: You could go stay in Alice’s fancy house?

Riese: Bring Finley. Yeah.

Analyssa: Obviously.

Riese: Yeah. I would say yes, because I’d want to stay in her house, because it would be nice.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: But also the other thing is that Sophie’s house is really nice too.

Drew: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Riese: Because it’s TV. That’s the problem. You can’t really offer this on TV, because people in TV live outside of their means.

Drew: Right.

Riese: That house that Sophie lives in where her and Micah are paying the rent for the whole thing?

Drew: No.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: That’s like a $5,000 a month house.

Analyssa: Yeah. But if my boss were going out of town for a book tour, and was like—

Riese: For 12 weeks.

Analyssa: “You could stay in my home,” I simply absolutely would.

Riese: Yeah. Well, Tom arrives with the magazine. He’s like…

Tom: Say hello to a cis man named Tom.

Riese: I thought that was funny.

Drew: Yeah. He’s very excited that he was written about in the press, and it’s cute.

Analyssa: And he’s glowing.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s very cute.

Drew: But then things go south, because Alice gets a bad review from the New York Times, and she decides to take that out on Tom, which sometimes you do that with the person who you’re dating, but again, they haven’t been dating long enough for you to do that. But again, I just, we’re going to keep it moving.

Riese: Yeah, we’re going to—

Drew: That’s the sort of thing where you would do that to someone who you’d been with for… I know he was her editor, so there’s also that, but I’m still just like, you just hooked up with your ex and it was this whole thing. Can you just try to be a little bit chill?

Analyssa: Be nice to him.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I thought it was a bit about his face was also very fun.

Riese: Yeah, that was funny.

Analyssa: He’s like, “What do you mean, ‘What do I look like?'”

Riese: Also, I liked that he reminded me of me in this thing, in that he didn’t realize Alice was actually mad at him at first. When she was like, “Who’s responsible for that?” And he’s like, “That would be me.” And then he slowly was like, “Oh, wait a second. She’s legitimately mad.” Yeah. Should we go to the shops?

Analyssa: Our queer elder trio are terrorizing a container store on the east side, I don’t know.

Riese: Another episode of “let’s project our own things onto everyone else’s things.”

Analyssa: Absolutely.

Riese: Bette literally tells Shane to move to Las Vegas, because when you find love like that, you shouldn’t let it go.

Analyssa: Hilariously, because I brought this up last episode, Bette has not given one piece of advice all season. In fact, people have directly asked her, and she’s like, “I simply couldn’t say.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: “I don’t have the answer for you.” I don’t think Shane even asked if she should move with Tess, and Bette was like, “I have an answer for you. Here’s what you should do.”

Drew: I mean, if my friend was dating Jamie Clayton—

Riese: Okay.

Drew: I might be like, “Yeah, you don’t want to… Yeah, you might do whatever you got to do.” But I do think they can just make long distance work.

Riese: Yeah, because it’s not like she’s moving there permanently.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And if she does then Shane can eventually move there.

Drew: Yeah, they can figure it out.

Analyssa: Right. There are some plans to be made in Los Angeles, with regard to, again, Dana’s bar.

Riese: Yeah. Owning a company is a lot of responsibility. You’re kind of stuck with it forever.

Drew: Also, Bette’s complaining about how Pippa thinks that she’s in love with Tina, and Alice… They’re sort of like…

Analyssa: Alice is like, “LOL, you are.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: “Sorry.” And they started going down this like questionnaire of, “Well, what if this happened? And what if Tina showed up, then what if…”

Drew: Shane shares that Carrie is having cold feet, which is… Whew, boy.

Riese: She’s like…

Shane: If Tina was to show up at your doorstep right now…
Bette: Well, I wouldn’t know, because I’m here with you.
Shane: And she says, “I’m in love with you. And I want to try again.” What do you say?
Alice: Oh my God, what would you say?
Bette: It’s a flawed premise.
Alice: Seriously?
Shane: Okay. You know what? I wasn’t going to say anything, but Bette, if you were having any doubts about Tina getting married—
Bette: I’m not having any doubts about Tina getting married.
Shane: Carrie is having cold feet.
Alice: Wait, what?
Bette: How do you know that?
Shane: All I’m saying is if there was ever a time to win her back, I think it’s now or never.

Riese: And then Bette is like, “Hmm.” And I’m like… “Mmm.”

Drew: I’ve never liked Tina more than when she’s with Carrie. Why are they… Why are they… Why?

Analyssa: Well, because.

Drew: Because of the people in our comments sections who are thrilled about it.

Riese: I mean, I’m not against Bette and Tina.

Drew: God, sometimes I forget our outer age difference.

Analyssa: Sorry, they’re shopping literally for Tina and Carrie’s wedding.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Right. When is that happening?

Analyssa: When’s the wedding? How far away is it?

Riese: Palm Springs, apparently. But I don’t even know what day it is.

Drew: At least no one’s interrupting at the altar.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It could have been worse.

Analyssa: If you’re buying gifts, the venue has been reserved, there’s dates in mind. So this is a whole thing. I did think it was very funny that Shane called Alice’s show basically just bits. She’s like “You just do little goofs. You don’t really do anything.” And also I would like to ask how many blue suits that Alice owns?

Riese: She looks cute in this one.

Analyssa: This one is good.

Riese: I love it.

Analyssa: I liked the Dumb and Dumber suit also.

Riese: I like this one better.

Analyssa: You know what my favorite monochrome look of the season is? Remember when she was wearing that emerald green collared tank?

Riese: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: And the green pants?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I loved it.

Riese: Alice’s clothes this season have been so good.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Then my whole mind is blown when we go to court. The smallest court for the biggest case I’ve ever seen.

Drew: Yeah. The witness says that Dani’s dad is responsible for the death of half a million Americans.

Analyssa: Directly responsible, because he knew that something was extra addictive, wherein extra—

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And he actively covered it up.

Drew: And this is apparently the first time that Dani has ever heard about this, or even heard rumors about this, because she starts to have a bit of a panic attack.

Riese: But what was her dad even… Were the Sacklers arrested? Weren’t they just investigated and fined? I don’t think a Sackler is sitting in jail.

Drew: No.

Riese: They would be put on trial, and their punishment would be money. They’d have to give money.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Like the Sacklers have to give billions of dollars to rehabs.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know enough about the Sacklers.

Riese: I have seen maybe five documentaries about the opioid crisis, and have read maybe five longform articles about it, for a total of maybe 25 hours of immersion in this topic. And I don’t understand where this family fits into the bigger narrative. Because apparently the Sacklers also exist in this world, but they’re also not mentioning Purdue Pharma, which manufactured it or anything. And I just can’t really figure out—

Drew: I think you might know more about the real life scenario than they do.

Riese: I actually would agree with you, because I… And actually, we still don’t really understand why was he arrested, why did he get to leave if he was arrested. Because he was saying the board lied to him about stuff. What does that have to do with anything? What was the FBI raiding his home over?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: What does his company do? I thought they did real estate.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t—

Analyssa: I have no idea.

Drew: I have no idea, but I do know that finally Dani has understood that there are moral implications to people dying. And Gigi encourages Dani to leave, and the lawyer is like, “You can’t. That’s not how this works. You’ll be held in contempt of court.” And then instead of being like, “Well, okay. Dani, go on the stand and just plead the fifth.” Gigi’s like…

Gigi: I know it’s hard but just try to be a fucking human being for a second. Look at her. She needs time.
Lawyer: We don’t have time.
Gigi: That’s your fucking problem. Want to go?
Lawyer: Dani, you’ll be held in criminal contempt of court. They will find you.
Gigi: Go fuck yourself.

Analyssa: Now, I don’t know anything about the law, and I should be clear about that. But what I have done is watch a lot of Law & Order: SVU, and many other procedurals that have criminal trials in them.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Can you be held in contempt of court as a witness? Why would the court give a shit that Dani won’t be a character witness for her dad? They want to find him guilty. Ostensibly that’s not how the American legal system works, but like—

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: She’s a witness for the defense. The defense would just have a list of people that they’d be like, “These are the people who can say stuff about him.” And if they didn’t, they’d be like, “Okay, so you don’t have any people who can say nice stuff about you.”

Drew: Yeah, I do think you’re right. I do think you lose a… Sometimes there’ll be like, “We lost our star witness,” or whatever.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Yeah. Exactly. Dani’s the star character.

Riese: Because they’ll kill the star witness.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I think it would only apply if they were actually hoping to use Dani to incriminate her father.

Drew: Oh, I see.

Riese: Like if the prosecution was calling her. But they’re not.

Analyssa: She’s doing trial prep with her dad.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. So anyway, I just feel like these people would not give a flying fuck if Dani goes up on the stage… The court itself would not care if Dani went up on stage and said, “Yes, my dad was a great dad,” or…

Drew: Also like, it could have been so much more… Okay. I’m aware that this is maybe corny, but this is a soap opera. I don’t understand why they didn’t take the opportunity to have Dani get on the stand, and have her little panic… Have the moment, she could have been on the stand. They could have been like, “Do you realize that your father killed half a million people?” And then she could have been like, it could have hit her and then she could have had this big, beautiful moment of realizing that she was wrong, and Bette was right, and that she has been bad, and blah, blah, blah. And she turns on her dad—

Riese: Yes.

Drew: It’s emotional, it’s dramatic, theater, drama, boom, boom. And then we can move on into her going to Gigi’s family, and having new family.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Instead of this non-drama weird thing, and then what happens later.

Riese: Yeah, and again, the smallest courtroom I have ever seen for a case of this alleged possible nature.

Drew: I think I’m just so confused why they constantly are manufacturing drama, but not ever actually even utilizing what they manufactured.

Riese: Right. Exactly. Like the DUI.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: They’re not using it at all.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: At all. And I also don’t… Why even… The Kayla thing, or the Marcus Allenwood thing.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: There are all of these opportunities to make things better. Was this all about COVID? Because other shows shot during COVID.

Analyssa: Correct.

Drew: I don’t think you can blame this on COVID.

Riese: You said, that’s such an obvious opportunity.

Analyssa: And that’s set in the same set.

Drew: It’s in the same set.

Analyssa: It’s not like that would have changed their production.

Riese: Yeah. This episode was 45 minutes long. They had at least, they could have pulled another 15 minutes.

Drew: I’ll let them off the hook for how small the courtroom is for COVID reasons, but there’s no reason you couldn’t have used that small courtroom better.

Analyssa: We do get to hear Gigi say, “Go fuck yourself.” Which I love.

Drew: Yes. It’s always enjoyable to see Gigi in like protector.

Analyssa: Because she loves—

Drew: …mama girlfriend mode.

Analyssa: Speaking of sort of protector mama girlfriend mode, Sophie and Finley are back at the house, and Finley is talking about her day. She got fired, and they of course start to fight about Finley drinking.

Riese: Because Finley’s going to make macaroni and cheese. And then they’re cute for a second. Sophie seems to… But then they kiss, and suddenly kissing is when she can smell the alcohol.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well, and she spills something out of the pot, which I think is supposed to be like she’s maybe drunk, which is like, for us as clumsy people—

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Sometimes we just knock shit over. I don’t know.

Riese: Right. Also this is the first time that they’ve introduced the possibility that Finley is secretly drinking during the day.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah. Sophie says she is going to leave, not permanently, but just has to get out of here because she’s stuck in this cycle with Finley, and it’s just too much. And I just think that this sudden escalation, it just makes it so much easier for someone who doesn’t drink during the day, or doesn’t pee in a hallway, or doesn’t XYZ that we’ve seen Finley do in only the last three episodes, watch this show and go, “Well, that’s an alcoholic, and so I have nothing to examine in my own life about alcohol.” Which is like, “Then why did we do this story?”

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: What is the point of alcoholism storylines on TV, if not to sort of try to get people, not all, to think that they’re alcoholics, but to start conversations and start thought processes. And this just makes it so easy for somebody to watch this and go, “Oh well, I’m nothing like that.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And along those lines, they don’t draw a distinction, they still haven’t drawn a distinction between Finley’s drinking and anyone else’s drinking. And they’ve avoided many opportunities to do that. And this was so frustrating, because Finley was like, “I just have to do it my own way.” And Sophie’s like, “You’ve been doing it your way and you got a fucking DUI.” You actually don’t have to be an alcoholic to get a DUI.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: If you’re a person of that size, you can have two drinks and you can get a DUI. That is not… They think it’s this bomb they’re dropping in the road. “Oh my God, a DUI! Oh my God, she’s an alcoholic!” But no, that’s not actually, it’s not doing what they think is going to do.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And I’m so confused why they introduced it, if not to get her into counseling, or to get her… She has fines to pay, she has probably a court date, she has a point on her license. These are all these repercussions, and I was annoyed to have to see them play out. But now I’m even more annoyed that instead of playing them out, that is seemingly gone. Just completely dropped.

Drew: She was fired by Tess and Shane—

Riese: Right.

Drew: And there’s no comment about, “You are in money problems right now, because of the DUI.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: This is the worst time for you to get fired. There’s no talk of that.

Riese: There’s still no recognition that this DUI was not solely her fault.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Or even as you said, you don’t have to be an alcoholic to get a DUI. Not solely for fault, but genuinely a mistake. The closest they get is when she says, “I had a really bad night.” And the answer to that is “No, you pretty consistently use alcohol in this way that is worrying to us.” But instead they’re like, “No, you got a DUI. What don’t you get about how that’s horrible?”

Riese: How about, “No, every time you’re sad you start drinking”?

Analyssa: Right. Or how about before you hooked up with Sophie, you had never had sober sex before. That kind of stuff is more indicative of a problem than just, “You had too many drinks, and we didn’t plan to take a Lyft, which was dumb.”

Riese: Right. And Sophie was even drunker than Finley was.

Analyssa: And in season one when Tess was sort of Finley’s buddy, and sort of taking care of her, but then of course, relapsed, which is also a mishandling of a situation on this show, it was getting towards a really nuanced, “What does it look like when someone drinks unhealthily and doesn’t really understand that,” because we think that’s how you’re supposed to drink in your twenties.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Finley saying that makes a lot of sense to me.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And why didn’t they have these conversations? Why did they make that DUI, what happened so ambiguous in terms of whose fault it was, or who’s… Not fault, but responsibility it was, if not to do anything with that. If just the next episode to have Sophie be like, “It’s a hundred percent on you, you have a problem, I don’t.” So we’re flinging back and forth between Sophie can’t find Finley, and people bringing alcohol to teenagers to drink before prom.

Drew: Right. And if it was being told more realistically, it would also be more interesting.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Like what I was saying last week of, artistically, it would be more interesting. Both, people would be able to find identification with it, and that could be really helpful. And also, in general, it just would be a better story.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’d be better television. It’d be less predictable and make more sense. So it’s just like, I don’t get it. I don’t get it.

Riese: Yeah, and I feel like this… Because what you’re saying about how people could look at this and feel about it, that she says that they don’t take that time to actually address, no, this is actually what your problem is, not these weird things we’ve created for three episodes. The problems are all of these things that we observed as watchers of the show. But literally, we’ve observed and talked about it so much that I think sometimes I forget that the show hasn’t—

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah. The show doesn’t seem concerned at all with the fact that Finley has never had sober sex. They are like, “That’s totally fine.” What actually is bad, is that she got behind the wheel of a car one night. And to be clear, drunk driving, bad.

Riese: Is bad. No one… Yeah.

Analyssa: Is not the end all be all of Finley’s drinking problem.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah. We’ve never even seen her drive drunk before.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: She rides a Bird around, which you can get a DUI… Well, I don’t know about on a Bird in LA.

Riese: You can get a DUI on a bike.

Analyssa: But you can on a bike. Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. A scene that I did like this television program, is the next one, which is Kayla and Angie and Jordi meet up. They’re all swinging on a swing set, it’s very sweet. And Angie… This was actually, I felt, a really revealing line of dialogue about what she’s kind of going through. She doesn’t want Kayla to feel like she has to cater to her when Kayla’s dad just died. I thought that was really something.

Drew: Yeah. It is.

Analyssa: And Kayla wants Angie to know who he was, because she’s also lost a parent. It would be nice if his memory was… I don’t know, I just thought this was really lovely. And I did, against my own free will burst into tears when this list came out. Which is basically at the Memorial services, Kayla took Angie’s list of questions and asked all of her… I feel like I’m getting emotional right now, asked all of her family to answer them and reminisce on stuff. And I just think that’s really lovely.

Drew: Yeah, that was really beautiful.

Riese: That was nice.

Kayla: Your mom brought by the questions to the hospital, and I went around and had my family answer them.
Angie: Oh my God. Oh, you did not have to do that. Dude, thank you so much.
Kayla: People have the best stories.
Angie: Really?
Kayla: Yeah.
Jordi: Which one’s your favorite?

Analyssa: And I would’ve watched 15 more minutes of this than some other stuff that happens in this episode.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Like perhaps the next scene.

Drew: When Dani is waiting at her dad’s place, and he gets home. She’s like, “I’m sorry, I couldn’t take the stand.” And he’s like, “You’ll do it tomorrow.” And she’s like, “No.”

Analyssa: What I love about this is that she—

Riese: Is the details?

Analyssa: Nope. The details of her outfit are what I was going to say. She’s changed outfits from when she was at court, but she’s still in business attire. Still in slacks.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: If I had gone home and changed out of my clothes from my fancy court clothes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Maybe jeans.

Riese: Dani is either in running clothes or business casual.

Analyssa: I feel like this might’ve been a time that called for athleisure.

Riese: Yeah, you’re right.

Drew: Yeah. She says she can’t see her dad anymore. Is she going to apologize to Bette?

Analyssa: No idea.

Drew: Doesn’t happen in this episode.

Riese: It’s time for Alice’s goodbye party. And again, Alice’s dress is really cute, consistent with the theme this season of Alice wearing really cute outfits. And Tom is really rolling with the punches with this kid, you know?

Analyssa: It’s because she sent a bunch of lobster gummies to him, which I think is cute.

Riese: I hope they had weed in them. I wish there was…

Analyssa: 10 pounds is a lot of gummies to send.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But I think the idea is very funny.

Drew: Yeah, it is cute.

Analyssa: And Bette is trying to suss out the situation with Carrie and Bette also in the background of this scene.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: But more importantly—

Riese: Alice is on the Bestseller list.

Analyssa: Did you know that the New York Times Best Seller list doesn’t actually count the number of books you’ve sold? There’s a whole ranking, weighted system.

Drew: I don’t know anything about it, and I was confused. I was like, “Wait, the book hasn’t come out yet. How’s it already on the Bestseller list? I don’t understand.”

Analyssa: It preferences pre-sales, and it does… There’s a bunch of different things that… I listened to a book presentation at work, from our books department. And there’s just a bunch of things that go into it, that are not just raw numbers, the book has sold more copies than everything else in America this week. Just in case anyone wanted to know.

Drew: I genuinely was like, “Ask question about…” Yeah.

Riese: Have you noticed that everything is on the New York Times Bestseller list.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Everything?

Riese: Yeah, every book I ever look at, it’s like, “New York Times Bestseller.” And I’m like, “How did all of you make it?”

Drew: How long’s the list?

Riese: 10 books per category each week.

Drew: How many categories are there?

Analyssa: Two.

Riese: No, there’s several.

Analyssa: Oh, I thought it was fiction and non-fiction.

Riese: Fiction and non-fiction. They also have graphic novels, or separate children’s YA.

Analyssa: That makes sense.

Riese: Mass market paperback, trade paperback, hard cover.

Analyssa: It’s very much like… You know how the Hollywood Walk of Fame is planned and purchased by representation of the talent who gets the star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame? That’s similar to the New York Times Bestseller list. I’m not saying any book could be a New York Times Bestseller, but there is some behind the scenes—

Drew: Got it.

Analyssa: …maneuvering it seems like. And positioning, and—

Drew: Yeah. That’s generally how things work.

Analyssa: Yeah, exactly.

Riese: Well, whatever it is, I’m sure that this show took the time to look into it, and make sure that this would make sense for Alice.

Drew: Yeah, absolutely.

Riese: So Tess comes in and Shane’s like, “Okay, let’s talk.” Shane’s like, “I have roots here.” And I am like, “What is happening?”

Analyssa: I do wonder about how she’s like, “I remember the first time I ever met you.” First of all, the first time they ever met was when Tess said “Girls like us.” And all of us were confused.

Riese: She was like, “Everyone knows you.”

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Shane said she can’t leave. Tess walks out crying. Shane follows, which I was excited about, because I was like, is she not going to say anything else? Is she going to let this conversation end? I don’t…

Riese: Why are they breaking up?

Drew: It makes no sense. So Shane runs after Tess and Tess is like, “I can’t believe this is what’s going to take us down after everything.” And I’m like—

Riese: After what?

Drew: Why? It doesn’t…

Analyssa: My note says, “Damn bro, Tess talking about this relationship like they’ve been going to war, what has been happening?”

Riese: And why is it ending?

Drew: It’s long distance. You’re lesbians.

Riese: Yeah. Again, my girlfriend lives in Santa Monica. You know how long it takes to get to Santa Monica?

Drew: You know how long it takes to get to Toronto?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Far.

Analyssa: Let’s go around and everybody brag about having a girlfriend. Okay, I get it. Fuck. She just said today that they could try long distance. This day.

Riese: This very day. Yeah.

Analyssa: Where has that gone?

Drew: I don’t know. Didn’t they say, “I love you.” And they kiss, so…

Riese: She says, “I’m in love with you.” As though that’s some new information. I swear, what’s happening? Did everyone stop trying? Come on. I know that these people who have these jobs are more talented than this episode or the last episode or the episode before that

Drew: I don’t… Yeah, what’s going on?

Riese: I was loving the first seven episodes of this season.

Analyssa: Even the first handful I was reading…

Riese: I enjoyed them.

Analyssa: I was rereading your recaps. I was looking at the post I posted and I was like, “Those were fun.”

Riese: Yeah, I was having a nice time.

Analyssa: They were more of what The L Word is normally, which is, this is frustrating because people aren’t like this in real life, but in a fun way, as opposed to a human person would never act in this manner.

Riese: Yeah. And is anyone paying attention? Are Micah and Maribel, who aren’t even in this episode, are they going to…

Drew: They sure aren’t.

Riese: Are they going to tell each other they love each other again? You don’t just walk outside and say, “I’m in love with you.” And that’s some follow up to why you’re breaking up, because you’re moving to Caesars’ Palace?

Drew: I don’t know. Speaking of things that are fucking maddening and shouldn’t be said on television. Bette goes up to Tina and Carrie and this starts off the main chaos of this episode which is that, Carrie leaves to go get drinks, Bette brings the…

Analyssa: Sorry. First Bette is nice to Carrie to get back in Tina’s good graces for this conversation. She’s the nicest she’s ever been to Carrie. Okay.

Drew: Correct. Now then Bette brings up Tina asking if Bette is still in love with her. And then Tina’s like, “I’m getting married.” And Bette’s like, “I just think we need to talk.” And Tina’s like, we don’t need to talk.

Analyssa: And I was like, “Yes. Go Tina!”

Drew: I was like, “Wow. Is Tina going to reject Bette?” I was very excited.

Analyssa: Boundaries. We love them.

Riese: Yeah, like when she rejected Bette for Henry.

Drew: Yeah, I know that. But I want her to be with Carrie. I didn’t want her to be with Henry. That’s the difference. And then Carrie comes back and is like…

Carrie: She’s in love with you. Haven’t I been saying that, Tina?
Tina: Yes, you have.
Carrie: Over and over.
Tina: But it doesn’t matter because I love you.
Carrie: You have no idea what it feels like to walk around trying to measure up to that woman.
Tina: No one expects you to measure up to her.
Carrie: Did you hear yourself?
Tina: What?
Carrie: Did you hear what you just said?
Tina: No, I just mean that I wouldn’t do that.
Carrie: Okay.
Tina: I don’t compare you and I would never do that.
Carrie: I got it.
Tina: Honey.
Carrie: Listen, I love you. I really do.
Tina: Let’s go home, Carrie.
Carrie: I can’t do this anymore, Tina. I really can’t. I’ve tried, Tina.

Riese: What did she hear?

Analyssa: I don’t know how much she heard, but she did have a stance of someone who’d been standing there for a long ass time.

Riese: I just want to say that I think it’s like a rule of, I don’t know, physics, algebra, geometry, something. If you’ve been together with somebody long enough to actually be engaged, your breakup is going to take a little bit longer than 10, 15 seconds.

Drew: I think maybe. But yeah. Tina yells at Bette. Pippa sees. It really couldn’t have gone worse.

Analyssa: Couldn’t have gone worse.

Drew: And I’m not just talking about the acting, I am talking about what’s on screen.

Analyssa: Tina delivers the line to Carrie, “No one expects you to measure up to her,” about Bette. Which is just…

Drew: Oof…

Analyssa: Devastating.

Riese: And then somehow Pippa just senses it.

Analyssa: Well, I think the idea is that she heard, one of… She can just see that this has caused chaos and she knows that the thing she thought was going to happen was going to happen.

Riese: I wrote this scene in fourth grade, is my feeling. The speed at which this all takes place and falls apart. Again, these are incredibly dramatic things happening that could have really been… I know that you would’ve hated it because no one here… But I want her to be with Pippa because Pippa is the better partner. I think it would be important and great for this show to actually have a Black character that is dating, who might be back for season three. That would be fantastic. But in terms of the Bette and Tina drama, I’m kind of always here for it. And I really think they could have… This is their core drama and this whole thing transpires in two minutes of nothingness.

Drew: Do you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of Lez Girls. It reminds me of Jenny Schecter’s rewrites of the early L Word seasons.

Riese: Absolutely. Yeah.

Drew: In that, it’s bad.

Riese: Yeah. And again, this episode is the shortest episode we’ve had so far and…

Analyssa: It could have been longer. We could have had more conversation. I wasn’t as mad about… I was mad about the speed with which this happened. Again, please remember, leading with love and light, it’s new for me. No, but genuinely, I wasn’t mad about the dialogue. I was mad about how fast it happened, but I was like, “This feels chaotic and finally some good fucking food.” Was it really good? No. But was it like, “I’ve been kind of hungry for a while so this tastes really good.” Maybe.

Drew: With what’s been set up with Pip… With Bette and Pippa. I combined… I did their ship name. Their ship name.

Analyssa: Do they have a ship name?

Riese: Bippa. Yeah, I just created it.

Analyssa: It’s Bippa or Pit.

Riese: Pet?

Analyssa: Pet? Don’t like that either.

Riese: Bippa.

Drew: Okay. So what’s been set up with Bette and Pippa, it’s just to have Bette say to this person, “You’ve made me think about my queerness and my Blackness in ways that I never had before.” And then to be like, but actually we’re not going to get into any of our dynamic that’s going to be really rushed in this season and it’s mostly going to be around the fact that Dani’s dad is a bad person. And then I’m going to go back with Tina who didn’t want to have a Black child.

Analyssa: Speaking of things that were confusing.

Riese: Time.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: What… How…

Analyssa: Where is this underground party that Finley is attending?

Riese: They do nighttime B roll between the party and the next scene, which is in this rave or something. Cause you know how Finley is, always in the daytime going to these raves. And in a hoodie or a jacket. She’s overdressed for a rave. It’s too warm in there.

Analyssa: Remember that time, though, she wore two sweaters?

Riese: That’s true.

Analyssa: So maybe she runs cold?

Riese: She must run cold like you, unlike me and Drew, we would be sweating.

Analyssa: Sometimes I wore long sleeves and jeans to Gay Astrology.

Drew: That’s impressive.

Riese: So somehow it’s night…

Analyssa: But then Finley emerges into the daytime.

Drew: Well, I think the idea is that she’s been dancing at the club for… Is she doing coke? I don’t think with alcohol she’s going to be able to go all night that way. She needs to get some other drugs in her. She should have nothing in her except Sophie’s hands.

Riese: Let’s talk about poppers, a real issue in the community. First she’s having these Sophie flashbacks, which were cute, but also made me think, “You know what would be great? Is to have flashbacks of your problematic drinking behavior or something, where we’re actually seeing you connect these dots.” But okay. I love a highlight reel of my favorite ship that they have really, really, really done a number on.

Drew: Yeah. She stumbles out in what I assumed was the morning, but could just be this whole thing was in the daytime and then…

Riese: But could it be? Because why did they show night B roll right before it?

Drew: I assumed to establish that she was dancing all night long.

Analyssa: I would go to this underground party and dance all night long.

Riese: You would?

Analyssa: I would. Not right now. There’s a pandemic outside, but I would.

Riese: Okay, I admire you. Finley almost gets hit by a car and then I guess she dies.

Drew: They make it seem like she got hit by a car. And I was like, “Are you fucking kidding me?” And they were fucking kidding me, but in a weird, twisted way because… No. She’s at Sophie’s.

Riese: What… I said I wasn’t going to talk about time.

Drew: She says, she’s going to go to rehab. That’s what we get.

Analyssa: Has it been 24 hours since then, you think?

Riese: Also Finley said she’s sorry and Sophie’s like, “It’s too late for that.” And I’m like, “Is it? Why?”

Drew: I don’t even… I can’t even. Okay. So then, okay… Okay. God dammit. I forgot how annoyed I was.

Riese: My favorite part of this is that we cut directly from this conversation of Finley going to rehab, to shots. The next frame is everyone doing shots. And by the way, with the timeframe… I don’t have to get into this. With the time frame literally everyone in this show has been drinking every single day except for Bette.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. So Gigi is introducing Dani to her whole family.

Analyssa: She’s wearing a great outfit for that event.

Drew: And it’s so cute.

Riese: I’m so happy for Dani.

Drew: I’m so thrilled with where this was going. I was like, “Yes, this is great.” Because she left her dad and look, it’s really hard to cut off family. And especially when her dad’s really her only family she has. She just lost Sophie and Sophie’s family.

Riese: And he’s killed half a million people.

Drew: Yeah. But it’s just… I really liked the idea that now she is being brought into this new family. Is it crazy considering how long she’s been dating Gigi? Yes. Would anyone I’m dating ever meet my family within three months even of me dating them? Absolutely not.

Riese: Oh really? I would. I would do it earlier than that for sure.

Drew: Oh, wow. Well, we’re all different people and that’s beautiful. But I was still happy about this. Despite being complicit in the deaths of half a million people, I really like Dani and Gigi together. And I was like, “Oh, this is overwhelming and cute. And I like this.” I like that Dani isn’t evil anymore, and I can stand Gigi.

Analyssa: And Gigi notes that Dani is freaking out and handles it so quickly and in a very fun way. Like, “All right, now we’re just going to go have fun.”

Riese: Also, I think they’re all speaking in Farsi, which they’re like, “Finally, after Nat,” to have this girl who actually can talk to them in Farsi is probably really great. And it seems really wonderful and happy. Oh well.

Analyssa: Hope nothing happens to change that. Back at Bette’s, Bette is telling Angie that she’s going to skip the CAC Gala because… Well, she doesn’t say why, but it’s because Pippa is going to be there, just so everyone knows at home. And she says that she has something for Angie.

Riese: Yeah. I, again, cried.

Analyssa: Big. Also Jordan Hull just has a great face.

Drew: She’s such a good actor.

Riese: And this was really sweet. This was a really sweet scene. So Marcus did a painting that seems to be of Angie when she was a kid called, “Her.” And Angie tears up about it, I want to say. Anyway, it’s really touching and moving. So she tells her to go to the show tonight because we don’t know how much time we have left, which is like, “Okay, my God.”

Drew: Yeah. I was like, “Finally Beth’s comforting her daughter and being the parent.” And then I was like, “Oh nope, she’s back to comforting Bette.” They have a real Gilmore Girls thing going. Okay, so then Alice is on a plane with Tom. He goes to the bathroom, which I did really like this representation because I also need to… I pee before I board the plane.

Analyssa: Yeah. That’s what I was going to say. Would you get on the plane and immediately pee?

Drew: Yes, I have to, because I get anxious. I get anxious that I’m going to be trapped and have to pee and not be able to get up. And I don’t want to… because I can’t.

Riese: Even if you just peed in the airport? Which is the normal thing to do.

Drew: Yes. I’ll pee twice. I’m not mentally well. I didn’t say I was mentally well. But because if I’m at the window seat or the middle seat, I cannot ever ask someone to get up if — or they’re sleeping or who knows. I’m always very scared about being trapped and having to pee and having to hold it for six hours. And so I will pee in the airport, then boarding can take like 15 minutes and then I’ll pee again in the plane.

Riese: Wow. As soon as I get on the plane, I’m just praying to God I’m not going to have to pee in that console.

Analyssa: The number of times I’ve peed on a plane is so minimal because I just instantly fall asleep and I wake up when we are touching back down.

Drew: That’s beautiful.

Riese: I pee right before I get on the plane to avoid it. But anyways, so Tom…

Drew: Tom goes to pee and then Alice finds an engagement ring. But…

Analyssa: What?

Drew: I think, okay…

Riese: This to me was actually the most bananas part of the episode.

Drew: I think that it’s not an engagement ring.

Riese: Right. How could it be?

Drew: I think that it is Tom’s ex-wife’s… When did Tom and his ex-wife break up?

Analyssa: Why would I know that information?

Riese: He didn’t have an ex-wife. He had an ex-girlfriend who married his friend.

Drew: Oh right. I was really thinking, “It must be something else. It’s an old ring from someone else that was returned…” No, I guess he’s proposing. That’s bonkers.

Riese: They’ve been dating for three days.

Drew: She just had sex with Nat. It was a whole thing.

Analyssa: Sorry. What’s also bonkers is Alice goes, “Please be a pen, please be a pen, please be a pen.” And I would just like to ask… When have either of you ever used a pen that was shaped like an engagement ring box?

Drew: I think rich people have the longer boxes for pens.

Riese: Maybe she’s into minis.

Drew: She should have been like, “Please be earrings.”

Riese: This, I was just like, come on, come on, guys. I know everyone in the writers’ room was smarter than this. What were they doing? This is so silly.

Drew: It must be something else. I don’t know what.

Analyssa: They must be planning for something.

Drew: But it must be something else. It makes no sense if he’s proposing.

Riese: It doesn’t fit with his personality, doesn’t fit with their relationship.

Drew: What else could it be?

Riese: Because as soon as — I immediately told Gretchen about this… Because I was like, “You will not believe this most insane thing of this episode.” And I really was racking my brain for what it could possibly be. He got it for a friend? What?

Analyssa: It’s his emotional support engagement ring. Please, be respectful.

Riese: And if I were Alice and I saw that, I wouldn’t think he’s going to propose to me because it’s been three days. Actually I would think, “Oh my God, I’m on a whirlwind romance. He’s going to propose to me.”

Drew: Do you know what I would do? First of all, I wouldn’t…

Riese: You’d directly communicate about it?

Drew: But I wouldn’t look through… I wouldn’t reach into the pocket of… I would be like, “It’s not an engagement ring because we’ve been together for three days.” So I don’t need to know what’s in my very new significant other’s pocket.

Analyssa: I would reach into the pocket.

Drew: If I did see…

Analyssa: I’ll be honest on this pod. I would reach in… If I felt a box that seemed like an engagement ring, and he had told me to put his jacket in the thing, I…

Riese: Why is it in the pocket of his blazer?

Drew: But then what I would do. Also, yeah, putting it up there? That’s an expensive ring. Anyways, I would be like, “This fell out of your jacket.” You know what I mean? I would lie. So I’d either be very honest or not honest at all.

Analyssa: I would never confront him about it. I would just sit with the knowledge.

Drew: I would be like, “This fell out of your pocket.”

Riese: Ana would be asleep.

Analyssa: I would look at that and go, “Not my problem.”

Drew: I’d actually be the one in the bathroom. So it’s my ring.

Analyssa: Okay. So Drew has a ring to propose to me. I dig in the pocket of Drew’s jacket. Sorry, that’s just me being honest about who I am as a person, I look at it. I go, “That’s fucking weird.” Then I put it back. I sit down and I sleep for the next seven hours and see if he figures his shit out in the meantime.

Drew: Great. What’s happening next? Oh, Tess leaves Shane. That’s what I wrote in my notes. That can’t be right.

Riese: Yeah. She wakes up and she gets the call. Tess, I guess, she’s moving pretty fast.

Analyssa: She’s dipping out on Shane in the middle of the night. Shane is fully asleep.

Riese: And now we finally get back to the set of Shane’s apartment. Also is Tess subletting her apartment? Did she pack? What’s happening?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: How long has it been since they… What?

Drew: I don’t know. I don’t know. But then Sophie drops…

Riese: Finley off at a hotel.

Drew: So, Sophie drops Finley off at rehab and it is, I don’t know. I just…

Analyssa: Do you guys think… Just play along with me here… Do you think that at fancy rehabs, they still give those psych ward socks to people? Do you guys all know what those psych ward socks are when I say them?

Riese: Yeah. I’m familiar with the psych ward socks, yeah.

Analyssa: Do you think Finley gets a pair of those?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: Those are the nicest socks ever. Those are great to have.

Riese: I was like, “Why aren’t they kissing goodbye?”

Analyssa: Nothing.

Riese: Finley asks if Sophie will still be here and she says, “Yes.” And then Finley gets out and there’s some nice valet guy. Obviously they didn’t shoot this at a hotel because it is like the drop-off situation is established for multiple cars to be coming up.

Analyssa: It’s secluded.

Drew: I’m not super knowledgeable about this so correct me if I’m wrong. But why doesn’t she go to a meeting first? Why is she going to a fancy rehab facility first?

Riese: Yeah. That’s what we’ve been saying since the beginning.

Analyssa: No idea.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Not even a meeting, she hasn’t even just said, “I’m going to not drink tomorrow” yet.

Drew: Right.

Riese: She hasn’t even done that. She hasn’t gotten a therapist.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: She hasn’t talked to even one single person about this.

Riese: She hasn’t even talked to Sophie about it.

Drew: I get that Alice has money to throw around, but I don’t get it. It doesn’t seem like the move, which you’ve said extensively. I think when they pull up, I was especially like, “We’re just jumping right to it.” It wasn’t like, “Oh, I’ll go to rehab, but we’re going to see the steps in order to… Do I need rehab?” This was when I was like, “Oh, she’s just going to rehab.” The idea was she was going to leave that intervention and get in a car.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Which I think your point, that they’ve only watched the television show Intervention, is correct.

Riese: Right. And people on that show are on, I would say, a much more traditional rock bottom path than we have found here with Finley.

Analyssa: And I feel like interventions, conventionally, are supposed to be used as a last resort.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Right, right.

Riese: Literally, that’s the point is every other thing has failed.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And she hasn’t tried anything.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: No one’s tried anything around her.

Riese: There’s even medication that people can take to… There’s all these different things you can try before you go to rehab. But I think…

Analyssa: I might suggest, and this is not from personal experience, that she maybe try attending a 12 step meeting and see if she cries inconsolably the whole hour.

Riese: Yeah. She could read a book.

Analyssa: And that might do something for her. I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I’m going to mention this on the podcast so you have to include it in the show notes, which is your essay about The Recovering by Leslie Jamison.

Riese: Yeah. She could read…

Analyssa: Try reading that, it might help.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Riese: And if meetings aren’t for her, then there’s other things that she could find. There’s just all kinds of things that she could do.

Analyssa: Yeah. Also so many meetings are on Zoom now that the investment is so much lower than having Alice pay for this fancy rehab where…

Drew: To be fair, there wasn’t Zoom in this world.

Riese: Honestly, in real life, if this was real life…

Analyssa: I mean Zoom existed before the pandemic.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: If this was real life the next day Tess would be like, “Hey, you prob…” Because first of all, Finley probably would’ve had to go to meetings, as part of her DUI thing.

Drew: Right, which would’ve been a better storyline.

Riese: And Tess would’ve been like, “Come with me.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: “I’m going to a meeting tonight. Come with me.” That’s literally exactly what would’ve happened.

Analyssa: I can’t believe that that didn’t happen in the first season when the opportunity presented itself.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Instead they said, “What if someone who is living soberly and trying to look out for another alcoholic relapsed?”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: “And then we didn’t…”

Riese: And had sex with the alcoholic.

Analyssa: “And then we didn’t think about the baby alcoholic for six more episodes. And then next season, we bring it back.”

Drew: She had someone’s fiance to have sex with.

Riese: Tess didn’t go to rehab.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Nope.

Riese: And it’s great. Honestly, I would love to go to rehab. It seems really nice. Like the rehab that Alice described, they have a pool, they have a beach. You’re going to talk about yourself all day.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: You get really nice food.

Analyssa: I bet instead oh psych word socks, they get like a fancy set of pajamas.

Riese: Yeah. She’s probably going to be walking around in cashmere. She’s going to meet celebrities. She’s going to have a great time. But yeah, no, this is definitely a pretty dramatic choice. Also when she’s like, “Will you be here when I get out?” How long is she going to be there? Maybe a week? It’s going to cost Alice like 50,000 bucks a day.

Drew: I have no idea. It makes no sense. I mean, it’s just so frustrating. Also frustrating is that, I was so happy that Dani and Gigi were just… I was so happy for them. And then Dani gets arrested for contempt of court.

Riese: Which is so embarrassing.

Drew: Which we already discussed doesn’t really make sense. And also, why did it have to… It’s just… why? Why?

Riese: It’s not like she’s a murderer. Do they really need to bust into…

Drew: No, it makes no sense.

Riese: The cops need to go get her at dinner? The show, first of all, loves the cops.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: And second of all, I hated this.

Drew: I hated it so much. It’s so stupid.

Analyssa: I did love Gigi arguing with the cops in the background? Because that’s just her whole deal.

Drew: It’s just so interesting to me because clearly… I get that they’re trying to have all the different characters end with some sort of big cliffhanger, except they’re not because Micah is not even in this episode. So if we can—

Riese: He was at the very beginning, he said to Finley, “It’s not one night.”

Drew: Oh right.

Riese: And then I was like, “Oh, what other nights was it?” And then no one said anything.

Drew: Right, I forgot about him being at the intervention. But we end Micah’s storyline with him, just I guess becoming a husband, and is happy and we don’t even get to spend time with his storyline in the finale because they don’t care about him, because they simply do not care about telling trans stories. But we can’t have one other storyline end somewhat happily, when she’s just had to confront the fact that her dad killed half a million people and never speak to her father again?

Riese: Yeah, and us too. We’ve just had to confront the fact that her dad—

Drew: Yeah, we can’t just have one couple… There’s enough other drama happening that is bad and manufactured. We can’t just have this couple just end with things being pretty good?

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: It’s so boring.

Analyssa: That’s not how season finales work, Drew.

Drew: I know that but then do be more creative. If you have to have drama everywhere, then make drama everywhere.

Riese: I wanted a musical montage and in the musical montage in my mind, Tess and Finley are going to a meeting together.

Analyssa: Beautiful.

Riese: And Sophie’s at home writing in her diary or masturbating, and Micah and Maribel are—

Drew: Having a threesome with the hot doctor.

Riese: Having a threesome with the hot doctor from the LGBT Center and Dani and Gigi are just boning, raw boning after a nice night with the fam.

Drew: That sounds like a great montage. Wait, what song is it set to?

Riese: And Dani’s dad breaks the fourth wall, speaks directly to the camera and is like, “I know that you guys, first of all, don’t really understand my storyline and furthermore don’t care about it so I’m going to see myself out.”

Drew: Beautiful.

Riese: He got more screen time than Sophie’s wonderful family.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wonderful surprise transphobic family.

Drew: He maybe got more screen time than Micah.

Analyssa: Okay, well here we are. We’ve arrived at the CAC and so has Pippa.

Riese: I love the red carpet at the art gallery opening.

Analyssa: Love the red carpet, love that Pippa arrives in a big car and there’s people interviewing her and taking photos of her.

Riese: And this was like, is it just you? And then she turns around as if Bette would—

Drew: Bette’s about to… Yeah, well because Bette is planning on going now, so her daughter’s advice really settled into her soul—

Analyssa: and she has this beautiful pair of wide leg pants that she would like to wear this evening.

Riese: Yeah, she has her own psych ward socks that she’s wearing covered in glitter.

Drew: But then she opens the door and who’s there but…

Tina: Hi.
Bette: What are you doing here?
Tina: Can I come in?

Riese: Tina!

Drew: Tina Canard.

Riese: Tiny Tina. It’s Tina.

Analyssa: Tina’s here.

Riese: That’s the episode. I knew she was going to be there.

Drew: And the squeals of Bettina shippers everywhere.

Riese: Lit up the night.

Analyssa: I’ll say it, I squealed a little bit. I’m upset—

Riese: I knew it was going to happen, but I was like, “Oh, you know what?” But I think a lot of that was driven by first of all, I want this show to get renewed because even though I hate it, I love it. Except for these last three episodes, I really have disliked. And I would say this was the second worst episode of the season.

Drew: Yeah, I think so. I would say these last three and the first one were far worse than the other six. I would say the first one was far better than these last three. And I would say that yeah, I agree with your order of these last three.

Riese: Yeah. This one is just, I mean the engagement ring.

Analyssa: But this one felt closer, I told drew this, I feel like I felt closer to being mad at The L Word in the way that I love to be mad at The L Word, versus thinking about whether I’m mad at the writers of The L Word. You know what I mean?

Riese: I am actually I think mad at that writer.

Drew: I don’t know. I mean, if the show gets renewed… Okay.

Riese: I hope everyone had a nice time listening to us complain.

Drew: I mean if they would—

Riese: You can look forward to our spinoff podcast which is just about Finley.

Drew: We wouldn’t complain if it was better.

Riese: Right, I want to like it!

Drew: Do you remember the karaoke episode? Even I loved it!

Riese: Spreading love and light over here.

Analyssa: I really tried. Do you think they did any better? I don’t. Yeah, I want to be excited about watching this show. I want to love this show. Are people watching it? I feel like general sentiment has been with us, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Like in the comments of your recaps and stuff.

Riese: Yeah. I think there was one person who was really mad and so they didn’t want to listen to the podcast anymore.

Drew: Yeah, which is fine, you don’t have to…

Analyssa: We’ve got a couple of those.

Drew: The great thing about podcasts and — what I will say is I’m a bit of a hypocrite, because I was about to say the great thing about podcasts is you don’t have to listen to them. But the great thing about television shows is you don’t have to watch them. But I don’t know. I mean, it will depend on a lot of things. I think it will depend on what the writer’s room looks like. I just, I can’t do this again. I can’t. It is painful for me. It makes me feel the way that watching the documentary Disclosure made me feel. Living in that head space or watching and writing about Silence Of The Lambs. These things that are these heavy representational failures, that are artistic failures, that are moral failures, and just make me feel bad about myself and about my community. And I love The L Word, I love the original show. There’s so much stuff that is cringe inducing, but the first four seasons, which I think we all know are not perfect by any means, I still love them.

Riese: Season three was really bad.

Drew: I like season three more than season five, which I know is a big disagreement that we have.

Riese: Yeah, that’s incorrect.

Drew: Which is fine, we can all have our opinions. But I think I’m really not that harsh… I’m not the kind of person who is like, “Oh, this is transphobic And I hate it and I…” I am someone who’s like, art’s complicated, things don’t have to be perfect, live in the complexity, but the last three episodes were not fun. I don’t enjoy getting on this podcast and bitching about it and so I might just give the show back to the cis white lesbians and move on with my life.

Riese: Yeah. I think that my feelings about the show are very tied up in the fact that every week I have to spend… This might be a good moment to talk about our fundraiser at Autostraddle. Which is that every week I have to spend about a full-time amount of hours on the show when it comes to the recapping, the screen caps. Writing the recap takes approximately forever. And then there is also the podcast and watching and listening to edits and all that stuff. The amount of time I have to spend with each episode is extensive and so that’s why when it’s not a good episode, I get more upset than a normal person probably would because I just feel annoyed that I have to… I was enjoying recapping it a lot more before when I was talking about the story and the characters. And I do feel like in terms of picking this certain thing with Finley, that it was like, first of all, how dare you? I was really unhappy with the stories that they chose.

Analyssa: Yeah. For us as lesbians, I feel sad.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right, for Riese, you can’t just watch the episode and be like, “Ugh, what a bad episode of TV,” and just move on with your life the way you could about some other show that you watch. I’m one of those little mice that presses the lever to get the bad drug. I will watch a bad show just for two hot people kissing and that makes me happy, or there’s some campy dialogue and that is fun, or someone throws a drink in someone’s face. I’ve watched my fair share of bad television that I had fun watching, and I just want this to be that. I want to be having fun. And I think it’s hard too to be doing… I don’t want to be like, “It’s so hard to do this podcast,” because it’s not, it’s very fun to talk with my friends and to talk to my friends who are listening. I love that part of it, but it’s tough to not even have the built-in nostalgia factor of the original L Word. This is happening in real time to me as a person. I’m watching it unfold in real time and having real emotions about it, versus re-watching something which I’ve already emoted about and now I’m talking about what that felt like or whatever.

Drew: I mean, something that I will say is that I think oftentimes when we talk about media and representation in media, we frame things in this way that is linear and therefore we’re like, “Oh well we’ll excuse things in 2006 that we won’t excuse now.” And I do think that it would be helpful if we didn’t do that because I think so often it’s a lot more complicated than that, and I think this feeling of, “Well they should know better now,” they should and also there has been media that has been better than this. Maybe it wasn’t on Showtime, but there are aspects of the original L Word that I think have better trans representation than the current iteration of The L Word. And it’s different. The problems are different but I think it’s important to be able to talk about… I don’t know. I mean, and that’s why I like doing this podcast because I do think that we both can have fun and critique and I love—

Analyssa: I thought you were saying we both as in two people in this room and I was like, “Who did Drew—”

Riese: Yeah, me too I was like, “I wonder who it is.”

Drew: No, all of us can both. But I don’t know, I’m losing hope that this franchise is ever going to really grow.

Analyssa: Okay. I love to call it a franchise if you were doing an outward spinoff, not The Farm which already existed and not Gen Q which is in fact kind of a spinoff.

Riese: I really think Gen Q has potential.

Analyssa: I do too.

Drew: Of course, but it had potential last year and then this fell apart.

Riese: But I do like these characters and I do think they were doing a really good job and I really just don’t understand what happened.

Drew: Yeah. I would do a Lisa the lesbian..

Riese: Sure.

Drew: Or the vampire.

Analyssa: I want an Office comedy of making The Alice Show.

Drew: Oh that’s fun.

Analyssa: I feel like hijinks occur and you know she employs a ton of queer people so there’s all sorts of hookup drama there.

Riese: Oh yeah, that’d be cute.

Analyssa: Sophie and Finley are not the only people who have fucked in that green room.

Riese: Making out in the green room.

Drew: I like that. That’s really fun.

Analyssa: The misadventures of that guy who’s getting her soup.

Drew: If Pippa leaves Bette… I guess Bette’s already leaving Pippa or whatever’s happening, I would follow Pippa around. I’d watch the Pippa show.

Analyssa: Honestly, I’m with Riese. I am not anti the Bette and Tina return. I would watch it if it was again, like I said, finally some good fucking food. I don’t know, that stuff is more fun to me to watch and yell about and be annoyed about than the rest of it and so it’s fun.

Drew: Right. But the problem is that Pippa was not introduced as just a hot person for Bette to have this brief affair with, she was introduced to someone who was opening Bette up to her Blackness and her queerness.

Analyssa: No, I agree.

Riese: That’s where I get upset about her being with Tina.

Drew: The problem is that Bette and Pippa’s relationship was framed in this way that was so heavy, and so then to not let that play out to then be fun, it ruins it. And so then it’s frustrating because yeah, okay Bette and Tina need to be together because of television rules, fine. There are other couples that I can be invested in. It’s just more the thing of being like, “Oh, then what was the point of all of that?” Which I know we all agree on, but I’m just like ugh, you know?

Riese: Well, I do want to talk about how we’re having a fundraiser right now at Autostraddle and if you have enjoyed this podcast and all of the many hours that we have put into analyzing this program for you, or even if you didn’t enjoy the podcast but for some reason are still listening to it, then I think that you should donate to our fundraiser. We have really great perks, we have really great content and stuff that’s going to come out that is going to try to convince you to do it and you should do it. You should just give us money because it costs money to make.

Drew: Yes. Independent queer media is really important because the kinds of conversations that we are having about this show and that we have about a lot of things, aren’t possible often when you don’t have that sort of independence, but it requires money.

Riese: Yes, so please, autostraddle.biz, please go and give us your money and then hopefully we will one day do this podcast again. And Drew may or may not be on it.

Analyssa: Carol will be installed as the third host.

Drew: If you liked when I was happy but don’t like when I’m critical, I do co-host the other Autostraddle podcast that also will potentially get more episodes if Autostraddle gets the money that we need in this fundraiser. So shout out to Wait, Is This A Date? Shout out to Autostraddle, shout out to To L and Back, and shout out to you giving us money.

Riese: Thank you guys for listening to our podcast this season. Listen to Drew’s podcast about dating.

Analyssa: Follow me on Letterboxd.

Riese: Follow Ana on Letterboxd and well, you know where I’ll be forever and ever. That’s all, we had fun.

Analyssa: We promise we had fun, we hope you guys did too.

Riese: We did have fun, yeah. And I think everyone did okay.

Drew: Yes.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Drew: Mine is “leaving” because if they don’t get their act together, I’m leaving.

Riese: That’s good. Mine is “lactose intolerant” because I think that maybe Tom is lactose tolerant and that’s why she sent gummies, because there wasn’t any lactose in the gummies.

Analyssa: The only word I can think of that starts with L is “lasagna” and so now here’s my improv on how that relates to this season and next. Well, a lasagna is some good food and you know what I would love next season is good food from this show. And you know what I had some of this season? Some good food.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah.

“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 209: Last Dance

Much like Pippa Pascal on this here TV program, the hosts of To L and Back have some trust issues! We’ve gone from epic highs (the karaoke episode) to some extreme lows, and so despite our best efforts and despite the number of shindigs in this episode, it’s a little hard to relax into this installment of our much beloved television series.

Because yes, while it’s firmly homecoming season in the real world (or so my Facebook feed tells me, filling as it is with photos of my teenage cousins all dressed up), in The L Word it’s prom night! Angie is wearing a suit and grappling with her feelings about not getting the chance to meet her donor. The adults gather at Bette’s to drink, gossip, and make-out in inappropriate places! Meanwhile, Sophie tries to search for Finley by making phone calls to various law enforcement agencies while also fighting with her family because we only have one episode left so you know things gotta get capital-S Serious…

SHOW NOTES

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: Oh, and I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is—

Drew, Analyssa, and Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q edition!

Analyssa: We’ve gotten so much better at that.

Drew: We have.

Riese: I think of all the happiness that now we’re in the same room, and it’s a lot easier.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Why is that?

Riese: Well, there’s a delay.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: On Zoom.

Riese: And I think also just the vibe.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s about vibes.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s really like… Did you guys ever play that improv game? I’m coming out as a theater kid, uh-oh, where you all stand in a circle or not, with your eyes closed or not, but then someone says, “One,” and then someone says, “Two.”

Riese: Oh yeah. That you would do before the show.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Because then it showed how well you were vibing or not.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: That’s kind of what this is.

Riese: Yeah, I get that. I love that. Yeah.

Analyssa: This is like a per episode vibe check.

Drew: We’re all on the same vibe today, I guess, maybe, question mark?

Riese: Maybe. I guess we’ll find out.

Drew: We’ll find out.

Riese: It’s a Monday.

Drew: This episode is episode 209 “Last Dance.” It’s directed by Haifaa Al-Mansour who directed the last episode, which you may remember, may not remember, the last episode. Notorious episode.

Riese: Yeah, the worst episode.

Drew: And it’s written by Allie Romano, who wrote on The Upshaws and on season one of Gen Q. Should we get into it?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: I’m trying to… I want to be enthusiastic for the people at home.

Drew: I want to be harsh and funny for the people at home.

Analyssa: I want to be, as always, somewhere in the middle. I would like to kick us off just by saying that the saga cell, I know I’m always the only person who cares about the saga cell, which is the 30 seconds at the beginning that recaps what has happened in previous weeks—

Riese: Oh, okay.

Analyssa: …and basically tells you what’s important this week to know.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I’m obsessed with them as an art form.

Riese: Okay.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Those and credit sequences are so fun for me to watch. That’s not what this is about. This saga cell made me so mad for Carrie all over again. It’s just so…

Riese: Was it really Carrie heavy?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: I don’t remember.

Analyssa: It was really Carrie heavy, and it’s like a super cut of her issues this season, which is just like, we’ve talked about how Carrie has bad boundaries and that’s all well and good, but she’s the only visibly older character, and she’s the only not thin character. And she just… Her driving—

Drew: She’s really the only butch character.

Analyssa: And her driving thing is that she hates herself? It just makes me so annoyed.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Analyssa: She passed the bar in two states!

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: We’ve already litigated this, but I just wanted say this was an especially egregious—

Drew: Nice.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: Oh my God. I just remembered that after, when we found out that she was playing a defense attorney named Carrie, I don’t know if this is before I made the connection that it was going to be Tina’s fiance or not, but I thought that Bette was going to be going to court—

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: … for—

Drew: Pushing.

Riese: …pushing that guy on the stairs. God, were we ever so young?!

Analyssa: What if Bette and Carrie were in court, fighting it out for something?

Riese: Oh, man. Yeah, that’s what I thought was going to happen. I didn’t think there would be fighting at poker night.

Analyssa: Yeah, that would be—

Riese: Or the other poker night.

Analyssa: That would be so fun. I wish that it weren’t

Riese: Or another poker night.

Drew: I’d also like to say that Carrie also has not had a sex scene yet. So it’s just—

Riese: That’s true.

Drew: So it is just also like, what role is that kind of person allowed to fill on this show?

Riese: Well, I mean, I think it’s the role Rosie wanted to play.

Analyssa: I do agree. I know that you said this.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree that she’s getting some meaty, dramatic acting work, which I can imagine, if you’re a Rosie O’Donnell, that could be fun and interesting, and you might weigh in that that’s an interesting storyline to pursue.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But what if Bette and Carrie were arguing over the best type of food instead of who had it worse growing up, and then Carrie’s really sad?

Drew: I mean, this is also why you can’t have one butch character, one older character, one fat character. This is why.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Because then you don’t have to limit the storylines as much when there’s a lot more characters.

Analyssa: Okay. I’m sorry for that digression.

Drew: No, that’s okay.

Analyssa: We can talk about the episode now.

Drew: Yeah. The only thing I have to say that’s good is Pippa’s seashell cowboy hat. Obsessed with it.

Analyssa: I also thought Bette’s coat, dress that ties in the front, I didn’t really know what it was. Loved it.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, great fashion. I think whenever I go to an impromptu protest that is filled with actors who all have the same handwriting on their signs and it feels so incredibly… Honestly, it felt more fake than the protest at the CAC in the original series.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: In terms of like, this is a protest on television vibe.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: It was so intense. But I think what’s most important, and everyone knows this at a protest, is fashion.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: And I think that these two women, they’re like, we’re basically on a catwalk. We’re walking through this crowd. They are all up in arms about this situation because Bette Porter, Patron Saint of underprivileged artists, has inspired them all to rise up against Dani’s dad’s company. I want to see fashion.

Drew: Yeah. Absolutely.

Analyssa: They said, “Put on your best fit.”

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: “Grab one of these signs that one person made over here.”

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Analyssa: “And then maybe the LA Times will come take pictures of us.” And you know what? They weren’t wrong.

Drew: It was nice of Bette to make all those signs for everybody.

Riese: It was.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That was like, you know in Catholicism, you have to do a penance? It’s like, you have to say 10 Hail Mary’s.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: That’s penance for almost losing Pippa. The gallery was like, “Okay, I’m going to organize a protest because I believe in that. My penance, because I did do something silly, is I will make 15 signs, and then we’ll go.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Can I make my first complaint of the episode?

Riese: Absolutely.

Drew: Okay. So when the last episode ended with Pippa and Bette being like, “We’re going to take them down together.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: I wanted like… You know how season finales of Mad Men would have a lot of scheming?

Riese: No.

Drew: Neither of you watched it?

Analyssa: I don’t.

Riese: No.

Drew: Great.

Analyssa: We’re both shaking our heads vigorously.

Drew: You know how like—

Riese: I mean, “men” was in the title.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: You know how in, basically, like a heist movie, sometimes it’s not a heist where this is done, where it’s like… Sometimes it’s a work takedown or a political takedown or something, and there’s a lot of scheming and it’s quick cuts, fun, whatever.

Riese: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: I wanted a scheme. I wanted them to take down. And instead, we just start with they’ve already… Even… And I’m not even, it doesn’t have to be super high concept. I just would’ve loved to see them getting these artists together.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I would’ve loved to see them bond over being political and being into the arts.

Riese: Right.

Drew: So I would’ve loved to see the two of them making calls, being like, “We need to get this person, this person. Oh, this person.” You know? Something fun and exciting and schemey and political, and whatever.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: And instead they just walk up to the protest, and they’re like, “Wow, we organized this protest.” And I was like, “Oh.”

Riese: You know what I would’ve loved is if instead of Pippa being like, “This will be your legacy,” if Bette had been to Pippa… Well, first of all, I mean, I think I’m in the minority here on this podcast, but I think this entire thing is stupid. But if we were going to say that it’s not stupid, then I would like Pippa to be the one at the center of it, not fucking Bette Porter.

Drew: No. I mean, the story line is stupid. I think we—

Riese: Right.

Drew: I don’t know. I think we agree on that. I just, when it was like, “Oh, they’re going to team up to whatever,” I was like, “Okay, this could maybe be good.” But then it wasn’t.

Riese: Oh, I mean, the ethics of whether or not they should take this money.

Drew: Oh, I see.

Riese: I think they should just take it.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I mean, they’re not the Sacklers. They didn’t manufacture the opioids.

Drew: I think the show has not been clear about what exactly Dani’s family has done and how bad they are.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And how bad the company is. So I think, because they brought up the Sacklers, I’m like, “Well, if it was the Sacklers.”

Riese: Right. If it was the Sacklers, sure.

Drew: But I’m confused if that’s actually where they’re at.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Because that hasn’t been shown to us.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: So if they’re just regular evil, rich people, then that’s who funds most museums.

Riese: Right.

Drew: That’s how it works.

Riese: Right.

Drew: So I’m with you on that, I guess, it depends sort of where they are.

Riese: Also, honestly, Núñez is a name to be chanting against doesn’t really hit like Sackler hits.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It doesn’t have that same impact, in my opinion.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I don’t understand the stakes, which is Bette threatened to pull Pippa’s art, and then almost lost the show. But now, all the artists whose art are in the gallery are protesting the gallery that they are in.

Riese: Against. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: And there’s no danger that they will lose their show?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Am I understanding that correctly?

Drew: Yeah. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Analyssa: Okay, cool. Okay. Something else that doesn’t make sense, just if we have more on this, we can come back to it, because we can talk about it at many points in this episode. But the Alice billboard, the billboard for Alice’s book is on Sunset Boulevard, by State Social House, which has great nineties nights on Saturdays, I mean, not since March 2020, I assume.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: And also by Book Soup, great local bookstore.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Oh, I love that place.

Analyssa: That is not where this JW Marriot is. The only JW Marriot in Los Angeles is downtown.

Riese: I was like, “Why are they at the fucking Marriot?” I would feel like they would put an Ace Hotel sign on Sunset Boulevard and then film in the Ace Hotel downtown.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And then be like, “There, she’s at the Ace Hotel.”

Analyssa: I’m like, The W on Sunset is right there.

Riese: Oh yeah. The W is exact… That’s like L Word level of douchey is The W.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Drew: I shot a movie in the W Hotel.

Riese: I fucking love the W.

Drew: I shot my thesis, my NYU thesis at W Hotel.

Riese: There you go.

Analyssa: So that didn’t make sense to me. And more things that didn’t make sense to me in this little scene are, Alice is being interviewed for her book and is somehow surprised that people are going to ask her about her personal life and wasn’t ready for this.

Riese: I actually was surprised. I was like, “Why in the world did they ask her who she’s dating?” I mean, but I was like, “Is it because this person wants to date her?” Because this person is hot.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I did think that. And I was like, “If she’s flirting, then fine.”

Drew: I have only asked one time if someone who I was interviewing was dating someone, and it was Mae Martin. And it was because it was our second interview. And the first interview, we had talked about stuff, and Mae said, “I’m not going to answer that question.” And I said, “That’s perfectly fine.” And we carried on. I don’t think it’s standard, so I was surprised by that.

Riese: I would never ask anyone that.

Drew: No, I would not. I would not ask anyone who I didn’t have previous rapport and an internet friendship with.

Riese: Right. And if I did and they seemed even vaguely uncomfortable, I would immediately retreat into my shell.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Yes. Yes.

Riese: And I would then have to tell everyone I knew what I had just done and how embarrassing it was, and I would probably talk about it for at least three weeks.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah, same.

Riese: And then I’d bring it up later on this podcast, in this moment, I would be mentioning it.

Analyssa: Well, this interviewer has watched all the seasons of The L Word, and so has forgotten also that Alice is bisexual.

Riese: Right. Well, and also that there’s lots of different pronouns that could be used by the people… Like I thought her even being like, “So who’s the lucky lady?” I was like, “Come on. It’s 2021. Who’s the lucky lady?”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But as we know, non-binary people only exist to have sex with Finley offscreen.

Riese: Right. Oh, and also it turned… Jose, I guess, had an ex, who was a “they/them” in the first season.

Drew: Oh, really?

Riese: Someone commented.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: So another offscreen non-binary person?

Drew: We love — yeah. Also, maybe Finley had sex with… Was that the person that we saw Finley having sex with?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay. But we never—

Riese: Who Finley didn’t refer to as a girl in that episode, but in the next episode, find out that they used different pronouns.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Thank you.

Drew: Yeah, good stuff.

Riese: Also, there was an interviewer from Out Magazine, and I feel like it could have been an interviewer from Autostraddle.

Drew: Sure could have been.

Riese: In fact, it could have specifically been you.

Drew: I would—

Riese: Actually, you wrote a book piece last week.

Analyssa: I did.

Riese: It could have been either of you.

Analyssa: It could’ve been any of us.

Drew: It could have been you. I think you would’ve been the person who would’ve been cast to do that.

Riese: Right. But I would’ve been like, “Do you think… I could probably get someone else to do this interview.”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I would’ve loved to. I would’ve done that cameo.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Like me last week, “I’m done watching The L Word: Generation Q.” Me this week, “If they wanted me to be on it, I’d be on it.”

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I think I’ve already made this reference, but the Lindsay Lohan thing, that’s like, “I never said that, Paris is my friend.”

Drew: Yeah, exactly.

Riese: Because I mean, Autostraddle is like a queer women’s website.

Drew: Yeah, that’d be cool to support us.

Riese: Out Magazine is technically men’s.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And we actually wouldn’t have asked Alice who the lucky lady was, probably.

Riese: No.

Drew: Maybe they know that.

Analyssa: Journalistic integrity.

Riese: But I would’ve had a lot of questions. It would’ve been like, “Your chapter about Dana. There’s nothing in it about Dana. Tell me about Dana.”

Analyssa: Dana.

Riese: Yeah. And then I would’ve been like, “So tell me more about the vampire. Do you know what happened to her?”

Drew: I would have explicitly asked about her bisexuality.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: That would have been my—

Riese: “So you’re bisexual.”

Drew: Yeah, I would’ve been like—

Analyssa: “Say more.”

Drew: I would’ve been like, “So do you feel like the acceptance of your bisexuality within women’s spaces has evolved over the years?”

Riese: Yeah. You would’ve been like—

Drew: And she would’ve been like, “I’m dating a guy named Tom.” No episode plot for her this episode. So that’s the problem.

Riese: You would’ve been like, “So Lisa…”

Drew: Yeah. “So have you talked to Lisa, where is she? How is she doing?”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: God, we would’ve killed this interview.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. So at the hospital—

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: Oh boy.

Analyssa: …Angie, Bette, and Tina are waiting for Angie’s turn to talk to Marcus.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: And they’re prepping for prom. Carrie is loaning Angie cufflinks, which Bette, of course, hates with every fiber of her being.

Angie: Carrie said I could borrow some more of her cufflinks. Is she—
Bette: Oh. You know, I have a whole drawer full of cufflinks, if you want to borrow some.
Angie: I know, but she offered.
Tina: I’ll bring them.
Bette: Okay.

Riese: Yeah. Bette has plenty of fucking cufflinks in her goddamn cufflink closet, and if, what the fuck? You know? Carrie probably only has two pairs of cufflinks, and Bette has cufflinks that were given to her by famous artists of the seventies, probably.

Drew: And then the cufflinks. I then made a note that it would’ve been a really funny joke if the episode had gone in a different direction, but instead, we’ll get to that later. But my note was Kayla’s mom comes out and says that they couldn’t get the actor who played Marcus.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Later—

Riese: That’s the joke I make in my recap, damn it!

Drew: Oh really?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I haven’t read it. Later, we’ll learn that they just replaced him.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: So why did any of this have to happen? But we’ll get to that. But yeah. So Marcus doesn’t want to meet Angie. Devastation, all around.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah. We don’t need to get into the weeds of this, but I was confused because Kayla has been hanging out with Angie, and the explanation being presented by Bette, at least, is like, their family is having a tough time adjusting to the reality.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I think later—

Riese: But they’re already there.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I mean, again…

Analyssa: And Kayla, again, like Marcus knows, presumably, that Kayla and Angie have been spending time together.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Right.

Drew: So where is Kayla?

Analyssa: What is the—

Riese: This has been discussed. I mean, she’s not writing those questions for sport.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s been discussed, they’re going to meet. It’s really weird that he would just change his mind on this one day. I thought like, “Oh, he’s literally about to die,” which turned out to be true.

Drew: Have you considered that it’s very poorly written?

Riese: I know. That’s the problem now. Last week, we turned a corner.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Because before that I was here, I was talking about characters in someone’s story in my recaps too. But now, I don’t trust anyone anymore.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And now, I have criticisms.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And one of them is that this doesn’t make any fucking sense.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Everyone’s going to the Marriott today. Big day for JW. Sophie’s there.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: She still hasn’t seen Finley.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: And she’s asking Alice if Alice has heard from Finley, who’s, by the way, no longer her employee.

Riese: Why?

Analyssa: So sure.

Riese: Why would Alice have heard from Finley?

Analyssa: I do love that Finley either owns a Bird scooter or is on them so frequently—

Riese: So often.

Analyssa: …that they are part of her brand.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Because Alice is like, “Maybe she took a wrong turn on her little scooter.” And I was like, “Those are everyone’s little scooters.”

Riese: Alice, for sure, doesn’t know that those are everyone’s scooter. She’s like, “Wow. A lot of people in this apartment building must use these scooters.” She doesn’t realize they’re there for everyone.

Analyssa: They’re just all in the corner.

Riese: But also, of course, Finley would be constantly on a fucking Bird.

Drew: Have you guys ever been on Birds?

Analyssa: I refuse to do one.

Riese: I haven’t, but I have driven next to my friends while they were on Birds.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: And thought, “That looks interesting.”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Alice is leaving her show for 12 weeks to go on a book tour, and so they have to have a replacement host. So, that’s fine.

Analyssa: Rachel Maddow is thinking about it. Good for her.

Riese: Yeah. No, she’s not. She’s going to be like, “Kamala Harris will be your substitute host.”

Analyssa: A question for the crowd…

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Where are Dani and Gigi eating this breakfast?

Riese: I believe… I mean, it looks like a first floor, right?

Analyssa: It looks like—

Riese: And they both live on higher floors.

Analyssa: It looks like the patio of a hotel. I don’t… Whatever.

Riese: I just want to live a life of strawberries for breakfast. You know what I mean?

Drew: I know.

Analyssa: These bitches are living luxuriously.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I really wish that they weren’t on the wrong side of this debate so I could enjoy their hotness and their strawberries. But Dani’s upset about Bette’s protest being in the newspaper. Dani’s also going to Eli’s recorder concert later, and Gigi says she’ll bring edibles.

Riese: I love that.

Drew: So Gigi’s fun mom.

Riese: I was like, “This is very authentic.”

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: “This rings true.”

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: And Dani is also prepping for her dad’s trial, which is happening incredibly fast.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: We don’t even know what he’s in trouble for.

Drew: I don’t know anything.

Analyssa: In this show—

Riese: But I also don’t care.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. I don’t actually wish that the timeline on this was dragged out. But in this show, things you can do overnight. Ready? Go to trial.

Riese: Have an entire relationship.

Analyssa: Organize a poker fundraiser gala for MS.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Organize this protest.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Right. It’s been 36 hours. I mean, later in the day, it’s been 36… At this point, it’s been 24 hours since she last saw Finley. So we’re… And Alice said, “I saw Finley last night.”

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: So this is the next day somehow, this protest.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: It’s been 12 hours, max.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I thought of another one. Oh, buy a high-rise condo with your dad’s money.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: You can do that in one day.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Imagine if all of our days were as productive as the people in The L Word.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: We would be cruising through life.

Riese: My days are not this productive, because all I do all day is write about the fucking L Word.

Analyssa: Anyway, speaking of hating your parents the way that Dani hates her dad, Angie is mad at Tina and Bette—

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Because of not being able to be Marcus.

Riese: Tina and Bette are hosting a lit pre-prom party with a lot of fancy hors d’oeuvres.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: There are so many little dumb finger foods. And it’s like, nice, but also just give these kids some pizza rolls.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Who gives a shit? Alice brings booze for the teens and for the adults.

Riese: Yeah. And they’re like, “Alice, this is children.” She’s like, “It’s prom.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And I’m like, “Right. But you’re not supposed to give them alcohol at prom.”

Drew: They have to get it.

Analyssa: Right. You have to sneak it.

Riese: You have to—

Drew: Or you have to sneak it to them if you’re like cool aunt.

Riese: Yeah. Hello, we all saw — well, you didn’t see because you guys were fetuses at the time — but when Donna Martin in 90210 got drunk at prom, and then she almost didn’t graduate.

Drew: Oh no.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: And you know who gave her alcohol? It was the parents?

Drew: Ooh.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Yeah. Because she hadn’t eaten all day, because it was the nineties so people still had storylines where, “We have to fit into this dress so we’re not going to eat all day.” You know what I mean?

Drew: Right. Yeah.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And anyway, so she got drunk. It was her first time drinking. And then everyone had to go outside the school and be like, “Donna Martin graduates.” It’s a very important moment of TV history.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: And you guys should watch it sometime.

Drew: Okay. I did just watch Glee for the first time last year. So I’m a little behind.

Riese: Right. Well, you should get it on DVD because all the music is different online.

Drew: Oh, well, then that’s good to know. I do like that Alice says—

Alice: Hey, happy prom, you guys. I love prom, okay? I went all four years.

Drew: That’s a very good character detail.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I love Leisha’s delivery.

Riese: And it fits right in with her being in a punk band, as we learned in season one.

Drew: Yeah, but it is funny.

Riese: Yeah, it’s funny.

Drew: It fits contemporary Alice.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I went to two proms. I went my sophomore year and my senior year.

Drew: I went to—

Riese: I went junior and senior year.

Drew: I went to zero proms, which I can get into.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: Yeah. Wow.

Drew: But yeah. So a little sore spot, but you know, I’m not in high school anymore. Let’s celebrate that.

Riese: Yeah, that’s great.

Analyssa: Speaking of sore spots, Dani is trial prepping.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Yeah. And her dad just storms in, he’s mad about the LA Times story. “How’d you let this happen?” And she’s like, “The CAC won’t let it happen. They won’t be bullied by artists.” And he tells her to make it go away. And I think that everyone should make it go away.

Analyssa: I was—

Riese: I don’t like the story, and I want it to be over. I don’t care for it.

Analyssa: I also want… My note says, “Dani’s dad wants us to go away. I want this to go away, just for different reasons.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I did think that the line—

Dani: Hi, dad. We were just talking about how good of a father you are.

Analyssa: …was really funny.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was cute. Yeah. I like that.

Analyssa: That’s all I had to say about this.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. Moving on to, back to prom party, Jordi is trying to put on, is it called a corsage on the—

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Boutonnière.

Drew: Boutonnière. Thank you.

Riese: Oh. Boutonnière.

Analyssa: Corsage is on the wrist.

Drew: The wrist. Right. Okay.

Analyssa: If it’s got a pin, it’s a boutonnière.

Drew: Incredible.

Riese: Good note for my recap.

Drew: Putting a boutonnière on and—

Riese: Boutonnière. That’s quite a word.

Drew: And Angie’s—

Analyssa: Those are really difficult, by the way.

Drew: Oh yeah?

Analyssa: At my high school, we always made parents do them.

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: I never pinned a boutonnière on a boy that I was going with. I always had—

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: There was always some mom or dad or a handful of them who could do it. And that was just the time.

Drew: That’s why you’re gay now.

Analyssa: And that’s why I’m gay. So true.

Drew: Jordi asks if Angie can postpone her pissed offness, which I thought was sweet.

Riese: A fair question.

Analyssa: I was going to say, I’m kind of on Jordi’s side in this whole thing about prom.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: I don’t know. It’s a party. I mean, that is not to say that Angie is not so justified in being upset.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: It’s just the—

Riese: Well, is she?

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Riese: I can understand that she’s in a bad mood, but she’s mad at Bette and Tina just because she wants to be mad at somebody.

Drew: She’s a teenager.

Riese: Yeah. She’s a teen. And also, you know what would’ve been great character development or something wild like that for this show is that they could have been brought up that maybe part of the reason Jordi is upset about this is because Angie’s both moms are there throwing this amazing party with these incredible hors d’oeuvres, you know?

Analyssa: With these fancy foods.

Riese: While meanwhile, Jordi’s parents don’t even give a shit that she exists.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah, that would be an interesting thing. I also wish that maybe they could have established that Angie’s mad at her parents because they could have said something more. You know?

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: Because that’s where we sort of get to eventually, where Tina’s like, “You could have pushed back more.” And what if Angie had said that? So it didn’t feel so much like, “Oh, this upset teenager, upset at the wrong people.”

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: Obviously, she’s projecting a little bit, which is allowed, she’s a teenager. But also, there is some justification because it is like, “Wait, that happened in five seconds, and you wanted that anyway.” She does say at one point like, “This is what she wanted.” But I could have had a little bit more of that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes. Angie’s really mad, and Tina wants Alice to take Carrie’s cufflinks up to her. Basically, Tina and Bette are like, “She’s going to kill us if we engage with her at all.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Shane and Tess show up.

Analyssa: Everyone is weird about it, because—

Riese: Yeah. Everyone’s so excited.

Analyssa: …Alice is Alice.

Drew: Tess asks if she can help, and Tina’s like, “Yeah, of course.” Which I so was not expecting though. I was expecting her to be like, “No, no, no we’re good.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: But Tina was like—

Riese: What did she say, “Bring this plate into the other room”?

Drew: Yeah. I was like, “What?”

Riese: I would have been like, “That’s not a good task. Give me a real task here.”

Analyssa: Also, and then is like, “I love her,” to Shane, she mouths it.

Riese: Right. You just met her.

Analyssa: I was like, “You have said four words to her.”

Riese: So all you mean is that she’s hot and you like her boots, probably. And also, it is funny because Shane has beer, and Bette is like, “They’re teenagers.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: And she’s like, “It’s prom.”

Drew: Yeah, that was good.

Riese: That was cute. That was one of five second moments in this episode that I didn’t hate.

Analyssa: Sophie in her car?

Riese: Yeah, Sophie in her car.

Drew: Yeah. She’s calling the Sheriff.

Riese: Why would Finley be in jail? Because she was just in jail? She thinks she went back to jail, as a place to sleep?

Analyssa: Finley got a punch card when she went to jail and now she’s back to punch it again.

Riese: Right. Exactly. She wants to get her 10th stay free without — why would Finley be in jail? She doesn’t have a car, famously doesn’t have a car.

Drew: That she calls the Sheriff’s department before hospitals is so baffling and doesn’t feel like that’s something Sophie would do.

Riese: I also feel like, again, the show does not want to address disparities in how people of color versus white people are treated by the police. The chance that Finley was just picked up off the street for public intoxication, pretty fucking slim. Call the hospital.

Analyssa: Yeah. But it’s a family birthday. So we have to go put on a smiley face. Micah is there and helping prep for the party, so there’s a lot of plus ones trying to carry their weight this episode. And then Sophie leaves again, to call more places because she’s distracted. Basically Sophie’s distracted the whole time she’s at this party, she’s like, “No, no, it’s fine. I’m here.” And then she’s like, “Actually, I have to go do something else.” So she’s like, “I can help in the kitchen.” She goes into the kitchen to start helping, and then she’s like, “I have to leave.” And luckily Sophie’s mom is here to botch this convo.

Drew: Yeah. She says to Maribel, “Well at least you don’t have to worry about, I’m so happy you don’t have to worry about all that dating crap.” Which feels like such a forced example of, “Ooh, this mom is ableist.” Where we’re like, Maribel dates a lot. We’ve seen her date a lot. Her mom would know that she dates a lot. This is just such a clumsy attempt to show ableism.

Riese: And also when Maribel’s like, “Oh, my mom thinks that no one will ever date me.” And her Mom’s like “No, no, no, that’s not what I said.” Yeah. That literally is exactly what you just said. What were you saying?

Drew: There’s so many ways in which it could have been subtler and still have hit, but they don’t care about that because it’s—

Analyssa: I just am so… bored of families of color, especially — and I’ll speak from my experience because I’m a white Latina — but sometimes your family does understand you. And people who write TV, especially about characters of color, do not understand that obviously there are parents who are not supportive of any number of identities that their kids have. And sometimes that is a friction point, even in very supportive families, but they’re not always just fucking ableist or transphobic as we see later or homophobic. It’s so boring as a conflict to me.

Drew: It’s also not—

Riese: It’s also inconsistent.

Drew: It’s so inconsistent with—

Riese: Sophie’s family was set up as they’re really accepting of her and Dani’s family isn’t accepting of her.

Analyssa: Right. And like Drew said, they’ve seen Maribel date, a lot presumably, because she’s always talking about going on dates. And she’s very close with them.

Drew: And there are, even in a supportive family, there are smaller microaggressions that happen, and would be great to portray. And instead of doing that, they’re just — it’s so lazy and boring and I hate it.

Riese: Yeah. And also then they’re like, “Oh, Micah, you’ll make some man so happy some day.” And I mean, I guess there’s a better time talking about this. I have no fucking idea why she hasn’t told them she’s dating Micah. I have no idea. Anyway.

Analyssa: Speaking of another thing I don’t really understand, we’re back at the CAC, Dani is there to try to do damage control. And she appeals to the director of CAC’s sentimentality about her family brand. I’m like, “This guy doesn’t care.”

Drew: There’s also just no portrayal of Dani having any grasp on the morality of this, which, I guess that’s fine if that’s what you want her character to be. But it’s just baffling to me that — this could have been more interesting if it was Dani feeling torn between her dad and her morals and her mommy Bette. That could have been so much more interesting and instead, there’s no sign that Dani has any grasp. It’s all of a sudden — I don’t understand. I don’t understand. I don’t know.

Analyssa: There’s also an interesting version — Bette sort of hinted at this last episode — of someone sort of taking Dani to task, and maybe this will happen, but I don’t have high hopes, for being a white Latina and thinking she’s doing good. And actually in the process being anti-Black or working against the interests of Black artists, that is something that happens in communities of color, and is a conversation. That’s also not there. So it’s like they’ve taken both of the—

Riese: Yeah. They will never, ever address differences between people of color or anything.

Analyssa: They put up these scenarios that could be interesting, like with Sophie’s family or with this conflict. And you’re like, “Oh, this could be a cool thing if they dug into, oh, that’s not what they’re going to dig into. Okay. Got it, got it, got it.”

Riese: Let’s make this as empty as possible. We still don’t understand at all what their actual involvement with opioids is. I still have no clue. And also really? There’s not a single artist who would show their work in that wing? I’m pretty sure there’s quite a few who would.

Drew: Well, now we at least get to move on to my favorite moment of the episode, which is when Alice is talking about bi-phobia and she asks Angie if she should tell the world she’s dating a man, and Angie just yells—

Angie: Nobody cares.
Alice: Oh. Straightforward. Okay. I can appreciate that.

Drew: And that is how I felt, and I loved it.

Riese: That was also my favorite moment of the episode. I was like, yes. And Alice is like, “I could appreciate that.” That was a highlight.

Analyssa: Another highlight hilariously is that Alice keeps asking Bette for advice and Bette keeps going. “I can’t answer that.” Bette keeps pleading the fifth.

Riese: Yeah what are you, Elizabeth Holmes? Yeah, fucking answer the question. “I can’t recall. I can’t recall.”

Analyssa: She just won’t weigh in.

Riese: “I can’t recall. I can’t recall.”

Analyssa: I think that’s so funny as a character trait. Your friend is being like, “What do you think I should do?” “Oh, I can’t tell you.” It’s so caring too. It comes from a place of, I don’t know where, but it just makes me laugh every time I kind of love it for her.

Riese: Alice says, “The problem is you, capital L lesbians.” But then she doesn’t actually explain actual biphobia practiced by lesbians. She says some — I didn’t even write it down because I don’t care. Because it was stupid.

Analyssa: She quotes something that I think Bette said on the original. She quotes it, like, Bette made one joke one time that was biphobic, and that’s how biphobia is perpetrated by lesbians. And I was like, well…

Riese: Also, I love all these literature reporters knocking down Alice’s story for personal gossip. Angie meets Tess. And Tina — first of all, I do think everybody’s outfits looked good with everyone else’s outfits this season, in this scene I want to say. And I did like the basic idea of this being a day in Los Angeles where there’s these events and people are coming in and out and they’re bringing — that felt very authentic. I’m literally, I’m really… grasping for straws here.

Drew: I can get on board with liking that there were events in Los Angeles.

Riese: People going to each other’s homes on a Saturday or whatever, fucking who knows goddamn this whole season has been four days long. So Tina thanks Tess and Shane for getting Carrie home and Tess is like, “For what it’s worth, I liked Carrie a lot.” And I’m like, did you?

Analyssa: Tess also calls her Eeyore, which I think is kind of a backhanded compliment. She says it in like a—

Riese: She says Shane is Eeyore, too.

Analyssa: It’s all weird.

Drew: Yeah, it’s a very weird moment.

Riese: But why are they lying to — when Tina was like “Did anything happen with Bette?” They’re like, “No, no, not at all.”

Drew: They say later it’s not our business, cause later—

Analyssa: I think they’re covering for Bette and don’t want to get in the middle of the drama.

Riese: Well, that’s shitty.

Analyssa: Yeah, I agree.

Drew: Yeah, it is. It’s not great.

Riese: I know Tina’s not on the main cast—

Drew: They should just be like, “You have to talk to Bette about that because we don’t want to get in the middle of it.” And actually Shane should say that because Tess is trying to make nice with her friends. So Shane should be like, “We’re not going to actually talk about that, but you should talk to Carrie, your fiance, and Bette, your ex-wife.”

Analyssa: “It seems like Carrie was upset, maybe you should chat with her.” So yeah. Tess does think that Shane should tell Tina, Shane disagrees, but then the two of them start hooking up in the bathroom.

Riese: Well Tess says that Shane should tell Tina that Carrie said she was having doubts, which I actually agree, I don’t think she should tell her that, but she should tell her that she was having a rough time and that she seemed to feel like she didn’t fit in.

Analyssa: Like there was something going on—

Riese: Yeah, that something bad happened with Bette. She felt like she didn’t fit in with all these LA lesbians, and they should maybe talk about it, but not she said, “She didn’t know if she could marry you.”

Analyssa: Especially just saying that one sentence without context is assuredly what the show would have Shane do, and that is egregious.

Riese: I did like it when the teenage boy walked in the room and they were like, “Get out of here.” And then Tess was like, “Oh my God, we scarred him.” And Shane was like.

Shane: It was the best day of his life.

Riese: I thought that was funny. So there we go, a moment to highlight.

Analyssa: I just — Ana speaking for Ana. Sex while 17 teenagers are next door, got to be low on the list in types of sex. Nope. Not in this place. Sophie calls Tess. And so then Tess is going to leave and is like, “I have to go handle this.” This is all happening while prom photos are being taken. And these are the worst stage prom photos I’ve ever seen.

Riese: Yeah, go outside?

Analyssa: First of all, go outside. You’re in Los Angeles. It’s very sunny. I’m sure.

Riese: I’m sure that Bette has a great fucking view.

Analyssa: Secondly, you can’t see half the kids. Back in my day, we all lined up in one row. Angie seems to have a lot of friends over, so okay, maybe two. Talls in the back, smalls in the front. Bette seems to only be taking photos of like Jordi and Angie in a little window — whatever.

Riese: Yeah. But what’s important is that they have three people with phones, all standing in a row taking a picture, because one of those is going to be a winner.

Drew: That’s the thought.

Riese: And then Tess comes in and says that she has to leave because she wants to see if Finley is passed out at the bar because Sophie hasn’t found her. And then Angie is still preoccupied with her drama and Jordi is upset about it.

Drew: And then Angie starts to have a panic attack of sorts, burst into tears. It all feels right for prom, in my opinion, based on my prom experiences.

Riese: Well, she’s also like, “It’s your donor that’s the asshole, not your moms or me.” And I’m like, is it? What is happening?

Analyssa: Speaking of parties where people are fighting, Sophie’s grandma’s birthday is happening.

Drew: Why would Maribel rat out Sophie when she also has this secret that she’s dating Micah, it makes no sense. And also why in general, would she do that? She’s close with Sophie. Why this season where we’re like, “Oh, we’d love if Maribel had more of a character.” And they were like, “So she should stop.”

Riese: She should be really mean. Right?

Drew: She should just be mean. That’s the character. Right?

Riese: She should always pick fights.

Drew: And we’re like, “But, why?”

Riese: I sort of enjoyed Sophie and Mari sparring, that was like fun sibling bullshit, but also what they were sparring about. I agreed. What in the world is happening? What are you doing?

Analyssa: I mean, I think she does not like Finley for Sophie. But again, I mean, we’re getting into the thing that we always do, and Drew does most of all. Which is, in my head, this is how it goes. Yeah, I guess it comes from a place of being worried about Sophie and not liking Finley for Sophie, but it feels—

Drew: It’s once again poorly written, because the show is not communicating to us that Maribel sucks. I said that fliply, but that’s no—

Riese: No, she’s funny.

Drew: Yeah. She’s great. But they keep writing these moments for her that are like, wait, why are you doing that to this character? Why are you making this character unreasonable in this way or illogical in this way? It’s very frustrating. Also very frustrating is then Sophie reveals that Micah and Mari are dating and Sophie’s grandma is like, “Isn’t he a trans?”

Riese: The moment where they were both like, “You can’t say a trans” felt like a very authentic parent talking to children about a trans person moment. But other than that, I was just like, “What the flying fuck is happening here?”

Drew: Also why would she—

Riese: Why was that said at all?

Drew: Yeah. Why would she have an issue with it? There’s just no — Micah’s probably been around because he’s been friends—

Riese: They seem to know him.

Drew: Yeah. It’s just so—

Riese: He used to date Dani.

Drew: I mean, that’s what you were saying earlier. It’s just so fucking annoying. I just hate it so much. It’s so fucking annoying.

Analyssa: Agreed. It’s very funny to me that Micah is just sitting there eating his food trying to ignore the chaos.

Drew: Also they don’t subtitle it, so I don’t speak Spanish—

Riese: I listened to it a million times to try to understand what they were saying.

Analyssa: I mean, basically they’re saying they’re worried, they want to know how serious it is, and then there was something that her mom asked that I couldn’t catch. I listened to it four times. And she’s like, “What do you mean? What do you mean by that?” And her mom’s like, “You know what I mean.” So there’s something going on. I don’t know.

Riese: I downloaded it, Google translate, after listening to it several times and not being able to parse out what it was. I downloaded Google translate app to try to translate it. And that part, whatever it is, her mom said, I couldn’t get anything of it.

Analyssa: Yeah. I wonder if it’s slang. I don’t know what Sophie’s family lineage is, or heritage is in the show, but Rosanny Zayas is Dominican, and I wonder if it’s a more colloquial Spanish, because my family is Mexican and speak Spanish, but I don’t speak Spanish super well. So I could understand them, but only to a certain extent.

Riese: Right. We do understand that Micah understands, that she does say that she loves him.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Correct.

Riese: However, they, for some inane reason went over this last week.

Drew: Yes, they did already cover this.

Analyssa: Did she not say anything back last week?

Riese: She did, I think.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know.

Analyssa: Or did they just kiss?

Drew: And then after all this Micah says—

Riese: I think she basically consented that she also loved him because he said, “I think you love me too.” And she was like smooch. I think. Smooch. Speaking of people doing insufferable things for incomprehensible reasons.

Analyssa: Dani is lying to Gigi about going to Eli’s recital. She was like, “There was lots of traffic.” One, the only other note I have about the scene, because I really, I don’t understand why she did it. I don’t care. Dani has changed the settings of her AirPods, so she’s only wearing one. And I would like to know the hack because I think that wearing two at the same time is very annoying if you’re trying to engage with the world around you.

Riese: I have one more thing to add, which is that in LA you can’t really lie about there being traffic, because people tend to know if there’s traffic.

Drew: And there’s always traffic.

Riese: And there’s always traffic.

Drew: Which she says later, but—

Analyssa: So you should just plan for that. It’s a bad excuse.

Drew: Yeah. If someone says there’s traffic, my response is — I saw my parents for the first time in a while yesterday, and my dad was picking me up from, we were meeting somewhere and my dad was, “Ah, there’s traffic.” And I was like, that’s fine. But obviously there’s traffic. It’s the 101.

Riese: Yeah. Like why lie?

Drew: And why lie? It makes no sense.

Riese: Why lie?

Drew: Just literally—

Riese: Just say—

Drew: Just say I’m so swamped with work.

Riese: I’ve had a really terrible—

Drew: And I want to meet your kid when I’m not like—

Riese: In a bad mood.

Drew: In this bad mood, head space. Why’d you say that? Just fucking say that.

Riese: Just say that. Yeah. If you’re going to lie, cover something up. Kill someone, cheat on someone and then lie about it. Don’t just fucking lie about nothing.

Drew: So then back up at the disastrous prom party, Bette tells Jordi to go to prom alone, which I think is bad advice personally. Like I think she should be like—

Analyssa: I think if there’s anything to do, I mean, I don’t have children. I’m not a parent. I should say that up front.

Riese: Well, you are very close to Carol.

Analyssa: It’s so true. Carol is sort of, in this moment, my daughter. And what I would do if my daughter Carol were in her room on prom night crying, I might send Carol’s girlfriend up just to see how it goes. Maybe Jordi goes up like, just to say, “Hey, I’m going to leave.” It feels like Bette is just basically standing in front of the stairs being like, “You must leave.” It feels like everyone is confused about how to handle Angie, because she seems to mostly be a happy and goes-with-the-plans kind of kid. So this is throwing a wrench in it.

Drew: Well Angie’s role in the family is to be the parent, and so this is the first time we’ve ever seen Angie really act like a teenager where she’s not making a detailed list and doing all these things that are really responsible or taking care of Bette while Bette cries. Instead, Angie’s being a little bit irrational and a little bit upset and they cannot handle having an actual child.

Analyssa: Does me categorizing Angie’s behavior — which you just said is being the parent, and I agree — as “she’s just a happy normal kid,” say anything about my own upbringing and what I think—?

Drew: Does the tone of the anger in my voice reflect anything about mine?

Riese: I would say that if this was my house, my mom would go upstairs and open the door and she’d be like, “Get your fucking shit together. That girl is down there.”

Analyssa: There’s someone here.

Riese: “We just spent—” She’d give me an itemized amount of how much was spent on the hors d’oeuvres, and all the pictures they took, and how much the suit costs, and that they got the suit tailored, and I would be out the door. My mom would put concealer over my crying eyes, and send me to fucking prom.

Drew: Well, instead she sends Jordi outside, and then Tina turns on Bette. And Bette’s like “All I said to Carrie was that we didn’t have to be best friends.” Which I guess is a type of truth.

Analyssa: What’s not a type of truth is she says—

Bette: You know what, actually, I was nice. I was nicer than that. Oh Jesus.

Drew: That is not true.

Analyssa: Right, that’s so far from true.

Riese: But also, I really appreciate Tina was like, “Why did you tell Jordi that Angie was going to come to prom,” and she was like, “I didn’t want to ruin her bad time” or make her — bring her down or whatever. And then Tina’s segue is so clumsy. She’s like, “Well obviously speaking of people who had a bad time, what did you say to Carrie?”

Analyssa: Tina’s doing like—

Riese: Tina’s doing a podcast segue—

Analyssa: Tina’s doing a To L and Back transition, right? “Speaking of you making people sad…”

Drew: Okay. So then Pippa arrives, which, was that planned? I was a little confused about this. Was Pippa invited to the party?

Riese: I don’t know but it’s an hour from Topanga?

Analyssa: No, I think it was a surprise because she’s bringing the news that they have been featured in the LA Times, which is so fast. Oh, another thing you can do in one day.

Riese: Right, also. So this means Pippa and Bette, but wasn’t last night their like—

Drew: Reconciliation?

Analyssa: Yeah, last night they were like, “We can burn shit down together.” Then this morning was the protest.

Riese: So they’ve been dating for three days.

Analyssa: Then it was the prom. And then the LA times came out with a photo of their protest. Okay.

Riese: Right. But also Sophie said it had been 36 hours since she saw Finley. So was there a time jump?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: Once again.

Riese: Maybe there was a time jump between hotel day and prom day.

Drew: Yeah, so it’s been another day.

Riese: Oh, okay. So it’s been one other day,

Analyssa: Alright. Yeah. Fair. I mean not, but, sure.

Riese: But also, I mean, it will never be resolved, but what the fuck is, where is Finley? So yeah Pippa was like, “We did it, we ruined Dani’s life.”

Drew: She also says that Jordi is crying in the driveway. Well, she says a girl, there’s a girl crying in the driveway.

Analyssa: Hilariously, Tina’s like, “Oh my God, you’re Pippa Pascal.” And you know how you see people’s art in galleries? And then you know exactly what they look like for the rest of your life 20 years later, you’re like, “Oh my God, that’s her.”

Drew: My only defense is that—

Riese: I mean, I could, I could spot Basquiat in a room, I’ll tell you that.

Drew: Is that Bette has presented a world where she’s been obsessed with Pippa Pascal for decades. So even though we never saw this on the original series, I’m assuming whenever we weren’t watching, when it was ever off camera, she was going on and on about how much she loved Pippa Pascal.

Riese: I don’t know if I could ID Georgia O’Keeffe in a lineup.

Analyssa: Right. That’s what I’m saying. She was so obsessed that she had a framed photo of Pippa on their mantelpiece for 20 years?

Drew: It’s a good point. It’s a good point.

Analyssa: I believe that—

Riese: What does Edward Hopper look like?

Analyssa: I would believe that—

Riese: Norman Rockwell, I would spot him.

Analyssa: I almost, when I was thinking of this joke to make on the pod, just like coming up with my little bits, I was like, Andy Warhol was the only person I could think of. And I was like, “I could pick that guy for sure.”

Riese: Frida Kahlo.

Analyssa: Frida Kahlo, very recognizable.

Drew: Maybe Pippa’s art has a lot of self portraits. I don’t know. I’m trying here.

Analyssa: I believe that Tina could pick Pippa’s art out of a lineup because she was married to Bette. That I believe.

Riese: I could definitely spot the guy who played Diego Rivera in Frida.

Drew: You mean Alfred Molina?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I could pick Alfred Molina in a lineup.

Riese: Actually I feel like there’s quite a few artists I could spot, but not very many.

Drew: And not one that you were like, “Oh, I saw your show 20 years ago with Bette.”

Riese: Yeah, never.

Drew: Okay. So the CAC is taking down the Nunez wing.

Analyssa: The Nunez wing is no more.

Riese: How are they going to fund the museum now? From some really ethical company?

Analyssa: Don’t ask questions that you don’t want answers to, Riese, because the answer to that question will take up a whole other episode.

Drew: I said, “I once again, wish this was more exciting. And I would like to see artists being called and the coordination of this change happen. If we have to have the storyline at least like make it zoomy, you know.”

Analyssa: What was that intro to The L Word? Was it the wrap party episode where they’re all calling each other being like—

Riese: That’s the poker party.

Drew: Yeah, that’s the poker party. That’s my favorite episode of The L Word ever. That’s what I’m wanting. But with artists.

Analyssa: We did get one win, which was, I think this is a Drew fave, when Jennifer Beals does her crying into laughing situation, or her laughing into crying situation.

Riese: I just hate how they’re…whatever.

Analyssa: Speaking of crying.

Riese: Oh, Alice and Shane have gone and talked to Angie. That was a good move, and they’re like, “It’s his loss if he doesn’t want to meet you.”

Analyssa: Angie’s makeup, I would just want to note, still perfectly intact. Whatever setting spray they used on her face.

Riese: And it wasn’t uUban Decay. Cause that’s an urban myth that that shit works.

Analyssa: That is an urban legend you’re so right. I did love the gay aunts are like shining up here. They’re really supportive. They’re saying all the right things. They’re like, “You should go to prom cause it’ll be fun, or fucking blow off prom if you don’t want to go. Either is fine.”

Drew: Shane’s very anti-prom, which I think is very funny, and fits. Jordan Hull is so good.

Analyssa: Jordan Hull is so good.

Riese: She is really good.

Drew: She’s so good in this scene.

Analyssa: So Tina didn’t know she was dating Pippa, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. And then they kiss in front of Tina, which is a very strange thing to do with like — I just wouldn’t kiss my girlfriend in front of my ex-wife, generally.

Riese: No. Well also, she’s like “How long have you been seeing Pippa.” And Bette’s like, “not long” but she says it in the way that it’s supposed to seem like it has been a long time, but it hasn’t, it has been three days.

Analyssa: And then Bette is like, “Maybe we should go back.” And for one second I saw Tina’s eyes light up, and I heard the eyes of all the Tibette shippers out there, light up. And then Bette goes, “I meant back to the hospital.” Tina was hoping that she meant back to boning while there was stir-fry on the stove.

Riese: Really?

Analyssa: I think so.

Riese: But Tina is the one who left Bette.

Drew: No, I don’t know.

Analyssa: I’m just telling you what I saw on Laurel Holloman’s face, dude.

Riese: You saw something on her face somehow?

Analyssa: I saw her make that face. She’s hopeful.

Riese: Interesting.

Drew: Also, Angie has gone to prom. Angie did decide to go to prom.

Riese: Oh, great.

Drew: That also was established.

Analyssa: Micah and Maribel are cuddled up watching Netflix. If Netflix exists in The L Word universe, are these bitches able to watch the first six seasons of The L Word?

Riese: Apparently not, because no one—

Analyssa: On Netflix?

Riese: …on this team remembers that Alice and Bette dated and finger banged at the opera. I am certain of that.

Drew: Just like Shane. I’ll never forget that.

Analyssa: That’s Micah and Mari’s favorite scene.

Riese: I know. And I’m like, Drew will never forget that. And so, you guys should respect her by remembering it.

Drew: This is when Micah’s like, “I don’t speak Spanish, but I know the word amor.” And again, they said that last episode. I don’t understand what the big deal is. And then he just says that he could see being her “esposo” someday. What the fuck is happening? God.

Analyssa: Really intense. Really, really deep in there.

Riese: I mean, we still don’t even know what happened—

Drew: Have they ever gone out as not friends, like to a restaurant? Anything, on a date?

Riese: Why was he mad that he was talking to a guy at the karaoke bar?

Drew: It’s so rushed and terrible.

Riese: Why did they talk for a week after that?

Analyssa: And again—

Riese: Has the crisis at the border been solved?

Drew: Maybe if Micah—

Riese: No, that’s a new crisis at the CAC.

Drew: Maybe if Micah was in every episode, there would be more time for the storyline to not feel rushed. Said that last week, say it again this week.

Riese: Well, you know who they could come cut out of this whole fucking shebang? Is fucking Dani’s dad. And then we’d all get a bunch of time back. I mean, I get the feeling from on the set photos they like him, the actor, like they’re all friends. Maybe that’s why he keeps being in it.

Drew: That’s nice of them.

Riese: I’ve had enough.

Analyssa: I’ve had enough.

Riese: I’ve had quite enough.

Drew: They were friends with Erin Daniels and they killed her.

Analyssa: What if they did—

Riese: Big regret.

Analyssa: What if they did a real soap opera thing and killed Dani’s dad, but then he came back as her uncle or something and was just there to have fun.

Drew: A very nice uncle.

Analyssa: I don’t know, flirt with Alice or something. Who knows?

Drew: Ooh, fun.

Riese: Yeah. That’s fun.

Analyssa: That could be fun.

Riese: Yeah. Bette and Tina are at the hospital and Bette is on the phone talking about her victory at the CAC.

Analyssa: And Tina hates it because she above all wants Bette to just be nice to Carrie. Then Tina asks Bette—

Tina: Are you still in love with me?

Riese: And then, surprise! Time to see Marcus.

Drew: Yep. And if Bette chooses Tina over Pippa. I don’t even know. I don’t even know. What am I going to do? I’m powerless. I have no control. I have no control in Hollywood. I have no control over the writers from The L Word: Generation Q. What am I going to do?

Analyssa: I have Drew—

Drew: Talk about it on this podcast. That’s what I’m going to do.

Analyssa: I have Drew tied up to the sofa in our living room with eyeballs held open watching this show.

Riese: I just don’t want Carrie to be sad again.

Analyssa: We don’t want Carrie to be sad anymore.

Riese: Also, Pippa obviously has trust issues, and if Bette fucks her over, I do not want Pippa or Carrie to get wronged.

Drew: No.

Riese: I’m more concerned about them than I am about Bette and Tina, honestly.

Drew: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, something interesting about Gen Q is that they’ve given us all of these new characters. I would take a bullet for most of these people and I don’t want them to be hurt, but Alice, Bette, and Tina, and Shane, I don’t know. Shit happens. Adult life is hard.

Drew: If Tina leaves Carrie, maybe Gigi can fuck her brains out. I would, I would watch a Gigi Rosie O’Donnell sex scene.

Riese: I don’t think Rosie O’Donnell would ever in a million years do a sex scene.

Analyssa: You think?

Drew: I would love it though.

Riese: Yeah. It would be fun.

Analyssa: She could have a really ironclad nudity clause.

Riese: So does Bette.

Analyssa: Jennifer Beals.

Riese: Jennifer Beals, who is never going to let us see her boobs.

Drew: She doesn’t have to show us her boobs. It could just be like—

Analyssa: We sound like teenagers. “Show us your boobs!”

Drew: Show us your boobs, Rosie!

Riese: It’s not so much that she won’t show us her boobs as it is that people keep bras on for so long in these sex scenes. I find that to be unethical.

Drew: No, just get more creative. It’s very silly.

Analyssa: The representation of—

Drew: I don’t even wear bras when I’m not having sex.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, representation fails because I know lesbians, to quote Alice. I know a lot of lesbians. Odds that all of them are wearing a bra in one room at any given point?

Riese: Slim.

Analyssa: Slim.

Riese: Especially first season, we’ve had lots of no bra representation. Dani didn’t wear a bra. Sophie didn’t wear a bra. I mean, Shane has never worn a bra, so that’s accurate at least. Anyway, the point of this is that Gigi and Dani, is that where we are now?

Drew: We are at Gigi and Dani. And Gigi tells Dani that Eli got a bloody nose. And then Dani’s like, “I didn’t, I wasn’t. I lied.” And then she gets mad.

Analyssa: That’s actually not what happens. What happens is that Dani fucks up her lie. And here’s my thing. If you’re going to lie about, as Riese said earlier, nothing, at least be good at it. If you’re just going to lie to make your life more convenient for the evening so you don’t have to do a whole conversation with Gigi about why you bailed on her kid’s recital, stick to the lie. She goes, “Yeah, sorry I couldn’t make it. I just had such a long day.” And Gigi’s like, “Didn’t you say there was traffic?”

Riese: I think if I was in Gigi’s position at this point, I might just call it off.

Drew: Oh yeah. I’m done.

Analyssa: But this has opened up the door for some of Gigi’s favorite things to do, which is communicate.

Drew: I said, Gigi loves this, LOL.

Riese: Gigi is hot for communication.

Analyssa: She loves to tell people how she’s feeling. And I love that for her. She says that Dani’s being hurtful and that the things that Dani’s doing are hurting her.

Riese: Then she hugs her. And then Dani’s like, “I told Finley no one holds me when I’m sad.” And I’m like, yeah, you’re realizing what I realized after writing the recap is that you get lots of hold offers and you turn them down, like me at the Los Angeles Public Library.

Analyssa: I had the same note, which was Gigi went in for the hug. And I was like, oh, someone’s holding Dani. Well, well, well.

Drew: But Dani says that Gigi’s the only person she has. And I’m like, what about Micah?

Riese: Micah’s learning Spanish on Netflix right now.

Analyssa: You know who also speaks Spanish? Is Dani. So Micah and Dani could be pals. They could talk to each other in Spanish. Micah could learn Spanish separately of Maribel.

Drew: No, we got that one scene of Dani and Micah being friends—

Analyssa: One scene.

Drew: …my favorite scene of The L Word: Generation Q in my favorite episode of The L Word: Generation Q. I was too enthusiastic. I was cursed. And now the show is bad.

Riese: Gigi also tells her that—

Gigi: You’re pretty prickly when you’re sad.

Riese: Which is true and cute.

Analyssa: It is cute. Also, I am in this picture and I don’t like it. That part, I was like, oh no. The idea of no one ever knows when I’m sad and no one ever takes care of me when I’m sad. And then someone being like, “Hey, the thing about that is you push people away when you’re sad.” I was like—

Drew: Brutal.

Analyssa: … uh-huh (affirmative), that’s interesting.

Drew: Brutal.

Analyssa: Something to take to my therapist when I have one.

Riese: Why are my notes here says, “Gigi is like, yo?”

Analyssa: I mean, I guess she kind of is like that.

Drew: That sums it up.

Riese: Did I want to write something else?

Drew: I’m sure you did.

Analyssa: I think so.

Riese: What did she—

Drew: I don’t know. Sort of like I had a note earlier that was, “Why does this?” And I was like, there was probably more than that or maybe not.

Riese: That’s pretty much a blanket… like “for us as lesbians.” “Why does this?”

Drew: Sophie keeps calling Finley at the bar.

Riese: Why do people keep calling people?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: And leaving multiple voicemails. By the time I check my voicemail—

Riese: Which will be three months from now.

Analyssa: One will suffice, maybe two.

Drew: Yeah. And then basically Tess tells Sophie, Finley has stuff to work out and she’s not going to be able to do it if you’re there to take care of her.

Riese: I disagree. And I think this is terrible advice.

Analyssa: I also disagree.

Riese: And also, if you’re there to pick up the pieces, I think she’s pretty clearly not picking up the pieces.

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair.

Analyssa: That’s the thing is, I don’t think it’s actually great advice because—

Riese: Finley will need support.

Analyssa: Right. I’m surprised that Tess wasn’t like, look, you can’t handle this all on your own. There are resources for her. She’s going to have to decide that she wants to get better. You can’t pick up all the pieces yourself.

Drew: That would be better advice.

Analyssa: That makes sense to me. But being like—

Riese: Leave her.

Analyssa: “You must stop trying to pick up the pieces.” This gets into the thing that I’m about to be mad about next, but I’ve never seen anyone have to pick up the pieces for Finley’s drinking before. This show is asking me to do this huge logical leap. I linked in the show notes last week, and probably will again this week, the essay about, I think it was Britni de la Cretaz, is that how you say their name?

Riese: I don’t know how to say that.

Analyssa: An essay on how The L Word: Gen Q mishandled Tess’ original storyline. And in reading it, there’s some stuff about Finley’s storyline from the first season. Just the pieces don’t all add up to the thing that they want me to believe they add up to, and it is driving me again as a person of “I quit drinking” experience, insane. Every time I watch it, I’m like, this doesn’t make any sense. Anyway, okay. But before that—

Riese: But when she said this, I was like, fuck, is that what they’re going to do? Because like I fucking hate, hate, hate storylines where somebody tells them, you have to break up with them for this thing to happen. Even like Phyllis telling Shane, “You have to break up with Molly. You’re bad for her.” And then Shane going to do it. And Molly being like, “What the fuck?” Is that what’s going to happen? Because first of all, I fucking hate that. Second of all, I understand that there’s certain ideas around dating someone when you’re in recovery, but Finley is not even there yet. Finley is missing. Sophie never picked up a fucking piece. She has not tried anything. Sophie has not tried a single goddamn thing to help Finley. No one has.

Analyssa: Another thing is I don’t even really want to be mad at Sophie for not trying, because up until now there’s been no need to try anything other than, like you said last episode.

Riese: We haven’t seen Finley—

Analyssa: We saw Finley chugging a beer. In the first season, this essay reminded me, she makes kind of off hand comments like, “I’ve never had sober sex.” Or she had to steal this bike because she woke up hungover. There are things that indicate that her drinking is to an extreme that is A, not healthy, and B, affects her day to day life, which are some markers of alcoholism. What has never been shown to me is that she is a fucking disaster of a drunk and that makes all these messes that people have to clean up, can’t take care of herself. Mostly, she’s like a party girl.

Riese: Seems to be fine.

Analyssa: Does she feel good and whole and worthy inside? Absolutely not. But does she go through most days functional and doing the things that she needs to get done?

Riese: She’s not even late to work. She shows up for what she’s supposed to show up for. Everyone treats her like a party lesbian, which is a whole type of person. And there’s hundreds of them right here in this city.

Analyssa: Right here in this fine city.

Riese: Right. And that’s the thing is, I don’t want to sound like I’m mad at Sophie like she owes Finley something she hasn’t done for her, but they haven’t set up Finley needing pieces picked up and they haven’t set up anyone picking them up.

Drew: No. I mean, we see a little of it with Rebecca, but it’s something that she really only shows a few times.

Analyssa: That’s why the Sophie and Maribel scene earlier was also frustrating to me is because Mari’s like, “I have to talk about this because it’s such a big deal that you’re still dating this person.” Other than your sister’s girlfriend is kind of like a dirt bag, that’s as far as I would give what I’ve seen Maribel see in this series. I think she’s not good enough for you, but that’s fine. It’s not like she’s, I can’t believe you would date this person. You’re still lying for her. You’re still doing all this stuff. Where is this coming from?

Riese: Yeah. And the thing that Finley did that pissed everyone off the most, interrupt the wedding, she was stone cold sober for that. And also, when her and Sophie had sex, which Sophie initiated when they had sex while she was with Dani, she was sober then too. The things that people don’t like about Finley don’t tend to be things that happen while she’s drunk, which obviously, I’m not saying she doesn’t have a problem. She does. This is just out of fucking nowhere. It’s like we’ve talked about before, the only story they really want to tell is a relapse story. They don’t actually want to tell a story about people talking or thinking about their relationship to alcohol.

Analyssa: Right. It feels like, we’ll just go into the next scene because this is all overlapping with it. This is part of the reason I argued against addiction and alcoholism stories on TV because so many writers go for the most dramatic rock bottom that could ever exist. Finley is stumbling around in a hallway, dark, confused.

Riese: How did she get there?

Analyssa: Where is she? We don’t know. She pulls down her pants. She’s peeing in the hallway. She’s falling in her pee. She looks ill.

Riese: Yeah. And we have never seen anything like this from her before, ever.

Analyssa: All of this is so extreme. That’s what I’m mad about is they’ve taken the easiest way to indicate that someone has a problem when up till now they’ve been putting in all these sort of small nuanced, is this? That’s an interesting story. There are many party people, I will include myself in this, people think are charming and fun and exciting and always know the next place to go hang out and always want to drink one more beer and it’s just a kick-ass time, who wake up one morning and are like, “Holy shit. I really don’t have a handle on this actually. It feels out of my control,” for whatever number of reasons. Finley has that moment with Rebecca. Finley goes home to Kansas City and is sober. All of those moments could have been Finley’s bottom. And instead what we’ve done is be like, nothing is a rock bottom unless you’re falling over in your own pee.

Riese: First, they outsource it to the criminal justice system. The other thing is Finley didn’t seem to really care about the DUI, so why would this be prompting her to suddenly be a pee in hallways drunk, who has been missing for 36 fucking hours?

Analyssa: I mean, I guess her fight with Sophie has prompted her to do this. But again, that fight felt rooted in not the reality of what we’ve seen from Finley. And I’m not suggesting—

Riese: Or we’ve seen from Sophie. Who in their right mind would ever let Finley just leave the house like that?

Analyssa: Right. I’m not suggesting at all that Finley is not an alcoholic. What I’m suggesting is that there are many different types of alcoholics, I know a lot of them, in fact, and there are many different types of rock bottom. They’ve chosen the most dramatic version of this for a story with Finley that actually doesn’t feel in line with her character at all or how she experiences-

Riese: There’s no escalation here. There wasn’t last season either. It seemed like it was escalating. It was peaking at Rebecca. And then they had this thing where suddenly the thing with Sophie started and Finley wasn’t drinking, which we all noticed and talked about, but no one said anything about it on the show. We were like, that’s the first time Finley’s had sober sex with someone. We wrote that in. But they didn’t say it.

Riese: And then this season it’s been like she was sober, but there’s been no escalation, just in terms of how to tell a story. They have not built us here.

Analyssa: What I would be less angry about and believe more for the character I’ve seen is Finley getting wasted at some bar, hitting on a bunch of people, kind of being embarrassing to herself. They’re like, “You have to go.” She’s wandering some more. Her outlet is partying. And that is really tied up with drinking obviously. I’ve never seen this girl’s outlet to be drinking so that she looks like she is sick and peeing in a hallway of a fancy building, which I’ll move on now, we find out is Dani’s building.

Riese: How?

Analyssa: How did she get in, first of all? Well, actually one step further. How does she know where Dani lives? Because Dani bought this apartment with her dad.

Drew: Makes no sense.

Riese: Like five days ago.

Analyssa: And is not friends with any of them right now.

Riese: Right. I don’t even know where you guys live.

Analyssa: Finley is wandering around. I can give you our address. Finley is wandering around drunk in Los Angeles and either knew the address to Dani’s to put into a Lyft app or Uber or—

Riese: Or a Bird.

Analyssa: Or knew Dani’s address to Bird there. And Dani lives in a high rise. I’ve seen it. It looks very fancy. There is for sure a key code at the door.

Riese: There is no way—

Analyssa: There’s no way you can just walk into that apartment building.

Riese: The people who live in those apartment building do not let drunk people falling over themselves walk into the apartment building.

Analyssa: Riese, we can’t even walk into your apartment building without a code.

Riese: Yeah. Well, people have, but yeah, you can’t walk into my apartment building without the code. That’s true. People found other ways to get in. Why would she go to Dani’s? Why didn’t she go to Tess’, Shane’s? She knows where Shane lives.

Analyssa: Because they lost it outside. We talked about it last week. She also is incapacitated.

Riese: That would’ve been much more moving by the way, is her landing on fucking Shane’s doorstep because Shane used to be the person on the doorstep.

Drew: But they’re not trying to make it moving. They’re trying to make it dramatic.

Riese: They’re trying to make it ugly, suddenly. They’ve been coddling Finley this whole fucking series. And now suddenly they want it to be ugly.

Analyssa: Which feels so incongruous with the character, and also just weirdly mean, not to Finley, but to the idea of alcoholics and how you might find your way to a bottom to get to recovery. I’m certain that there are people in the writer’s room who are sober. Otherwise, that would be truly mind boggling. But I can’t understand this arc.

Riese: I mean, are there? I don’t know.

Analyssa: She’s incapacitated enough to pee in the hallway and fall over and put her hand in it. But she still has the wherewithal to find, not just Dani’s building, but Dani’s door, banging on the correct door.

Riese: They could have had an escalation that peaked today at the family party where maybe she was drinking at the party with Sophie’s family and embarrassed herself. I wouldn’t have wanted to see that because maybe like the writers, I love Finley and Sophie and I want them to be coddled and I don’t want Finley to embarrass herself in front of Sophie’s family. But would that have made more sense?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Okay. We’ve got it all out. I mean, I’m sure we had more.

Drew: I mean, we’re going to—

Riese: I know. We haven’t.

Analyssa: We’ve gotten some stuff.

Drew: We come back.

Riese: Dani calls Sophie and Sophie is at Dana’s and she answers it.

Drew: Yeah. And then we go to—

Analyssa: Speaking of being on the phone.

Drew: Yeah. Alice is on the phone with a reporter who once again is asking Alice about her personal life after saying she’s done so much for lesbians on TV.

Analyssa: A question I have is how did Alice get branded as a capital L Lesbian talk show host? Because this felt like a very easy time to say when the reporter was like, “You’ve done so much for lesbian representation,” to be like, “Ha ha, actually I’m bisexual, but I hope I represent queer women—” or “I’m so glad lesbians relate to me.” There were so many other options. And instead what she does is roll with this reporter calling her a lesbian talk show host, and then say, “Well, I’m dating a man named Tom.” That is opening her up for the thing that she seems deeply afraid of, which is that people will make fun of her on the internet.

Drew: Yeah. And actually she clarifies a cis-man, which I actually really liked because I do think that Alice would date a—

Riese: The assumption would be—

Drew: … would date a trans man and still identify and not be worried about him. That fits with Alice and Alice’s community.

Riese: Do I understand being a bisexual who stops dating men and then you call yourself a lesbian and then everyone starts to call you a lesbian and then you just kind of are a lesbian? Yes.

Drew: But is that what happened with Alice? Is that what we’re led to believe that throughout the last 10 years she hasn’t identified as bisexual publicly?

Analyssa: I don’t think we’ve been led to believe anything.

Riese: I believe that that’s what’s been happening because that’s what happened to me personally.

Drew: No, I know. I know what you were—

Riese: Because that seems possible to me. But I would think she’d be like, “Actually, I’m not a lesbian. I’m bisexual.” And then say, “And I’m dating a man.”

Analyssa: She’s been offered so many opportunities on record this episode even, not even over the last 10 years. I can see how again, the identity or label that gets assigned to you can just kind of get away from you. And you’re like, okay, I’ll just roll with that. But right now specifically, people are always telling her how great it is — Carrie, how great it is that there’s a lesbian on TV.

Drew: Yeah, she never—

Analyssa: She could just be like, “I’m not one.”

Riese: Totally. This is what I would say if I was in her position, which I could be, but I’m not because I have a girlfriend is, “Actually, yeah, I did identify as a lesbian for a long time because that kind of just seemed like the right fit for me. But I actually used to identify as bisexual and I think I identify as bisexual again because I’m actually dating a man.”

Analyssa: That’s all. That’s a side of myself that I’m exploring.

Drew: So we go to Angie’s prom. She and Jordi apologize to each other. Jordi lost prom queen, very sad. But they dance and it’s cute.

Analyssa: It’s sweet.

Drew: I will say—

Riese: Did they not want to hire any extras for this scene?

Drew: I guess not, which I get. That’s fine.

Analyssa: In my head, they’re outside of Olivia Rodrigo’s Sour Prom 45-minute concert. They’re in the—

Drew: So funny. Angie and Jordi feel very chaste to me and very much don’t even really feel like girlfriends. There’s got to be an in-between, between sexualizing teenagers, which I don’t want, and them feeling like—

Riese: I don’t think they’ve even tongue kissed. They hug.

Analyssa: They hug a lot.

Drew: They hug. They hug all the time. It is just a little bit weird. There’s got to be an in-between.

Riese: Is it because the actors are young? Because Sex Education is about high school.

Drew: The actors are a lot older.

Riese: Or like Beverly Hills 90210, as aforementioned

Drew: So is Euphoria. But it is because the actors are actually teenagers here. So it makes sense that they wouldn’t have graphic sex scenes, like in Sex Education. I get that and support that. But I do think there’s an in-between. They don’t even have to make out. There even just is a way of—

Riese: They could just kiss.

Drew: There is also just a way of touching.

Riese: They kiss on Degrassi.

Drew: There’s a way that they could hold each other, touch each other that could just be a little bit more flirtatious. I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah, I agree.

Drew: They just have friend chemistry, not romantic chemistry, which is fine, I guess. I really felt it this episode where I just was like, mm.

Analyssa: Yeah, my note is towards the end when they’re in the little montage dancing, which we’re about to get into, but the climax of their dancing outside of prom is that they do one very intense hug. It’s like, I don’t need to see two 17-year-olds have sex, especially on this show.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Or ever. But Euphoria, or Sex Education, where 20-year-olds are playing 17-year-olds, that’s okay, we’re getting into something different, but the—

Riese: The hugging is—

Analyssa: The hugging needs to stop.

Riese: It’s reminiscent of what all gay people used to do on TV.

Drew: That’s what’s bothering me, I think, about it, is I just am a little bit… And especially, I don’t know, especially because she’s trans. I don’t know if I have an actual specific critique. It’s just hitting me weird.

Riese: Yeah, no. It was super weird because last week… Two weeks ago… When was the Singing in the Rain thing?

Anayssa: Two weeks.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: When they were like, “I’m so glad you…” And then they did the hug, and I’m like, “These…” Come on.

Drew: I mean, maybe the actors don’t feel comfortable, in which case, respect those 17-year-old actors.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: But even a kiss on the cheek or an arm around the shoulder can feel very like, “We are a couple who are dating.” And these hugs are very like, “Oh my God, my best friend…” Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, yeah.

Riese: Yeah. They have best friend energy.

Analyssa: Riese and I had more chemistry when we hugged hello at the door than these two have. They have, yeah, best friend… Like, “Oh my God, are we so cute together?”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Also, Angie she does look great in her suit. I don’t know if we took… cut through that.

Analyssa: And I love that Jordi is wearing basically a Betsy Johnson dress to prom, because that was critical to my prom experience.

Riese: It also had the Villanelle vibes of that.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Which… classic.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Okay. So Bette and Tina have made their way—

Analyssa: For some reason I stopped taking notes here.

Drew: So they’ve made their way to Marcus. So they recast him. So why is any of this storyline happening, if he didn’t have to, if he could just live on, why is he saved?

Riese: I have no idea. Also, why did they recast a lighter skinned actor?

Analyssa: That is a bummer. Why do it? And again, why have Angie have another Black relative who dies?

Drew: Yep.

Riese: Right?

Drew: Well, we’ll get there.

Riese: I don’t know what happens next because I don’t have notes.

Analyssa: Right. Okay. So Bette and Tina are in Marcus’s hospital room.

Riese: Oh yeah. And he’s like, “Congrats on…” So I guess he’s reading the fucking LA times.

Drew: Yeah. Bette gives Marcus Angie’s questions and he’s like, “Oh I didn’t… I guess I can meet her. Sure.” That’s it.

Riese: What? Like, what is ha—

Drew: I don’t… It makes no… none of it makes sense.

Riese: Do their schedules not line up?

Drew: Yeah. I’m not…

Riese: What was going on? I don’t know. But he’s proud of Bette for raising Angie, who’s obviously such a great kid because she has great handwriting or whatever.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Bette and Tina lock eyes because Bette is like, “We did it together.” It’s so cute. Again. I’m telling you, I can hear the people who want Bette and Tina together just thrilled.

Riese: Which is most people I think.

Analyssa: I think it is.

Drew: That’s so…

Analyssa: It’s surprising to me.

Drew: I’m so… I’m just…

Analyssa: Also though, just one quick thing. As a person of LA experience, Marcus has a show going up. He’s still an artist. He has a show going up and Bette calls it Lock-ma. I call it Lack-ma.

Drew: I call it Lack-ma.

Riese: Oh, I call it Lock-ma.

Drew: Oh, wow.

Analyssa: Fascinating. Okay. That’s why I brought it up, because I knew someone would have an opinion.

Riese: I don’t understand how they haven’t crossed paths at all. He’s in LA. He’s in LA, now.

Analyssa: And he has a show at Lack-ma?

Riese: He has a show.

Drew: Doesn’t make any sense.

Riese: It seems like she would’ve literally had to actively avoid him.

Drew: Yeah. That doesn’t make any sense. Okay.

Riese: I keep forgetting that the original series was also set in LA.

Drew: We go back.

Riese: He doesn’t live in Vancouver anymore.

Drew: Yeah. I also have that. So then we’re back with Finley and she asks… She’s like, “Your apartment’s amazing. Why did you live in that with us?”

Riese: That was kind of funny.

Drew: But did Finley live there?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I thought Finley lived… I thought Finley’s whole thing was that she was living with Shane.

Riese: Right. But then she got kicked out of Shane’s and, and she moved.

Analyssa: At some point…

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Cause Quiara came so she…

Drew: Right. Right. Right. Right.

Riese: And then she and Sophie was like, “Just live with me.”

Drew: Right, right.

Riese: Because they were secretly falling in love with each other.

Drew: Right, right. Sorry. Sorry. Okay.

Riese: I mean the things that Finley says in this are a little bit funny.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: You know, when she’s just like, “Wow, you’re such an adult,” and like Gigi and Dani are like, “What is happening?” But also they have made her look like fucking Macaulay Culkin on a terrible, terrible night, in the late nineties.

Drew: It’s like… It’s so painful to watch, and so unnecessary. And then Finley says to Dani, “That’s the look. You’re giving me the look, the look that Sophie gives me.” When did we see that before? It was talked about. It’s classic show-don’t-tell. Like what? You can’t just be like, “Oh, in the last episode, we invented that there is this look that Sophie gives Finley when she’s scared of her.” Like what? When did…

Riese: Finley’s accidentally stepping in her own pee, but also keenly aware of Dani’s facial expressions.

Analyssa: Yeah. I didn’t take notes. Drew, thank you for doing the heavy lifting. Because Riese stopped notes. I didn’t take notes on this.

Riese: I was upset, I guess.

Analyssa: I don’t know why you stopped, but I didn’t take notes on this scene. My only note says, “Finley, Gigi, Dani scene makes me mad. I don’t know, whatever. We get it. She’s an alcoholic.” It just felt so…

Drew: It’s terrible.

Analyssa: Obvious. Like it’s just, it’s not…

Drew: Well, something that I think has been coming up a lot in these episodes is that oftentimes, we frame things being politically bad or offensive in various ways…

Riese: Bad for representation.

Drew: Yeah. There’s like that. And then there’s bad art. And so often they’re the same. So often it’s lazy writing because it’s not truthful writing and so it’s bad from a narrative perspective and it’s bad from a being shitty to people perspective. I wish that more and more culturally beyond The L Word, we were able to talk more about that and stopped creating this line between stuff being politically sound and being artistically sound. Because usually it’s one. The graph is whatever… How graphs work. Like it’s the same, the pie chart is what… The ven diagram is a circle. That’s what I was trying to say.

Analyssa: The graph is how graphs work.

Drew: So everything that is bothering us, and I say politically, but it’s really just representing people in a way that is inaccurate, and shitty, and untruthful. And that also is just terrible writing and I hate it. And then we go into our final montage, where we’re going to get to the last thing that I hate is…

Riese: So has Sophie already picked her up?

Analyssa: No, that’s at the end.

Riese: Okay.

Drew: Yeah. So Angie and Jordi are dancing and chastely hugging. Tina thanks Bette for making it happen, that Angie’s going to…

Riese: Everyone thanks Bette for everything.

Drew: Yeah. And then the two of them are being all like, “Oh my God, Angie’s so lucky to have a mom like you.” And it’s like a moment where they’re just… It’s just like, fuck already. Get it over with and ruin our lives. And then… Oh! Oh!

Riese: Surprise!

Drew: Marcus dies.

Analyssa: We’re coding.

Riese: Yeah. Which also, how many… They love having people coding on this. I know on this show, but also it was so weird because now Tina and Bette were present for his death. His own wife and child weren’t, which is weird.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Analyssa: They were downstairs buying a ‘you are my sunshine’ flower.

Riese: Right? Exactly. I know — Kayla should have come up with little, ‘you are my sunshine flower’ and then everyone could have cried. I was just like, “Really guys?”

Drew: If Tina was the last person to see my husband alive, I would think she killed him. What have you done, Tina Kennard? I just… It makes me so mad. We already talked about it, but it’s just so gross.

Riese: Stop killing Black people on this show, please. And, and then the weird thing is that this, this season, we also found out that, against what we believed, Bette’s mom is actually alive, but she’s the white parent. So the only living family member—

Analyssa: Yeah, yeah. Yep.

Riese: Like, did no one say this is a little bit messed up? Also, they just introduced him.

Analyssa: And again, what is the point of re-introducing him? And re-casting him if they were just going to kill him off? Couldn’t he have been… Unfortunately he died two years ago. Okay. Fine. Then I don’t have to meet a character… invest.

Riese: What happened to the kidney?

Drew: Yeah. We didn’t explain that at all.

Riese: It’s just, what was the point? What was the point of having the storyline at all? What was accomplished by Angie not meeting Marcus? What did that do?

Analyssa: We’ve traumatized Angie.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know why.

Analyssa: Just killed someone else?

Drew: Yeah. It makes no sense. Again, it’s just lazy. It’s the same thing of what we’re talking about with Finely.

Analyssa: Cause more pain for Black women?

Drew: It’s just that they don’t, they don’t know how to create conflict, unless it’s the most obvious ways of creating conflict. So it’s death, it’s jail. It’s cheating. That’s the only way they know how to create conflict.

Analyssa: I wish there were more cheating.

Drew: I know. I know. Right?

Analyssa: I just, I wish that I didn’t have to be having this conversation. Not with you two. This is lovely. But I just mean, I wish I was just excited about what they were getting up to.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I wish I weren’t thinking about what the writer… I just am having a moment where I’m like, “Are people going to listen to this and think that I’m really angry for no reason?” And maybe, but more importantly, I wish that I didn’t have to be like, “This is why I’m angry.” Instead, I just got to turn my little brain off and enjoy some hot people kissing.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: And sometimes cheating on…

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Their partner with their ex, and sometimes spending a million dollars on a home. And then I don’t know, throwing a weird party in it or something. I don’t know.

Drew: More karaoke.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Any number of other storylines. And instead, now I have to be mad and I have to be responsible for being mad on this podcast.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Also one of the things that we talked about a lot, a few years ago, when all that conversation was happening around like lesbians being killed on TV shows at egregious rates or whatever, is that one of the most… Because when we were doing the list, we want to include guest characters who were only there for one episode? Because probably not, because that could be so many procedural stuff like that. But we did include some because there is something so especially egregious about introducing a lesbian character, just to kill her moments later.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: And I think the same, obviously, the same is true for Black characters and that’s exactly what they did here. They introduced him and they killed him three minutes later.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: That’s so profoundly fucked and I don’t know how they’re going to come back from this.

Drew: Yeah

Analyssa: Yeah. I have to watch Angie be sad next episode?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Like I don’t want that.

Riese: No. Why do you think…

Analyssa: I want like a fun… I want like a season finale where people have sex.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: And like Angie and Jordi hold hands while they go to meet Marcus at the house that he lives in…

Riese: Or to Disneyland.

Analyssa: And then they all get to go to Disneyland, or something.

Riese: She cuts her kidney right out of her body and gives it to him and he swallows it and then he is fine and they all go to fucking Disneyland.

Analyssa: You know, the way kidney transplants work.

Riese: Exactly. That’s how they work.

Drew: Like eating the placenta.

Riese: Exactly. Yes.

Analyssa: The end of this montage is that Sophie comes to get Finley. Is there a conversation in this? I didn’t take notes on it.

Drew: I don’t know. I think it…

Riese: Are Gigi and Dani still standing there like, “Who is this?”

Drew: I say, Sophie goes to Dani’s. My last note under that is “WTF. Why?” So I don’t know what prompted that. I don’t know if she says anything.

Analyssa: They’re all looking at Finley like, “Oh no.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And again, we’ve never seen them have to do this. We’ve always seen her wake up in a strange place, which is scary, and again, not a sign that things are going well for her, but…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s never… I’m not trying to make a value judgment on Finley’s alcoholism or on anyone’s alcoholism. But Finley has never actually appeared to be a burden to anyone in her life because of her drinking. She’s harming herself and she’s sometimes harming other people, like Rebecca or whatever. I’ve never seen her do this to her friends. I’ve never seen her friends be concerned about her. I’ve only ever see them be like, “Fuck yeah, let’s keep drinking, Finley. Let’s go out. Let’s do more stuff.”

Riese: Bro night!

Analyssa: And for them all to be looking at her with this —

Riese: Pity and disgust.

Analyssa: Pity and disappointment and disgust is what I was trying to poke out with the Sophie conversation. Like where they got into a fight and she’s like, “Your light goes out,” all that stuff. Where is that coming from? Cause I haven’t seen any of it. I genuinely believe that loving people who have alcoholism is hard.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I believe that.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: Yes. Having loved people who have alcoholism. I agree. It is hard.

Analyssa: I think it would be hard to love Finley as she is and as we’ve seen her.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I think they’re drawing a parallel here that they’ve always felt like they do in this episode, while they’re staring at her like this and I don’t understand how or why.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: There’s so many small, easy things too, like that could have… She could have just fallen asleep on the bus and had all her stuff stolen.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Common.

Analyssa: Anything. Yeah.

Riese: What is she doing at Dani’s? So was it just so she could be like, “your apartment is nice” or I don’t, I think there’s supposed to be some… Sophie was supposed to be embarrassed.

Drew: Yeah. Probably.

Riese: So that Sophie be… Or did they want Sophie to be mad for embarrassing her in some way?

Analyssa: Maybe. There is also something with Finley and Dani. Finley thinks that Dani is the person she should be aspiring to be.

Drew: Doing this whole thing. Yeah.

Riese: Which also doesn’t make sense because Sophie told her otherwise and usually Finley pretty much believes whatever people tell her.

Drew: Yeah. And they’re also just extremely different people.

Riese: The only nice thing was that — it was that I think at least in this episode they made it clear that Sophie really cares about Finley and did seem to regret everything, which I think is more consistent of her character. That she would be preoccupied by it. But other than that, I was like, “This is not an improvement on last week.” I was really like, “Is she not on the cast for this episode?”

Analyssa: I really thought she wasn’t going to be there.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s the episode.

Drew: That’s the episode. Okay. Well…

Riese: Honestly, all I want to do is start a podcast called Finley and Sophie, where I talk about all of my feelings about this storyline.

Analyssa: Oh, I thought you were going to say like where I write fanfic and read it.

Riese: Oh no.

Analyssa: Wouldn’t it be nice if every week me, you and Drew got together and we sat in this living room, like we are now. You in this tall chair and us on the floor and you had notes. And you read us a bedtime story, which was like, “This week on The L Word: Generation Q…”

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: “Sophie and Finley went to Huntington Gardens and they walked around and Finley played soccer with a little boy, because she loves playing soccer.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: “And then Sophie got a call from Alice that she’s getting promoted, and look at that.”

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: “Everything’s fun and happy.”

Drew: I would like to clarify that it is possible to have high drama, lots of conflict and it isn’t this type of shitty, over the top conflict.

Riese: Right.

Drew: As much as I would love for Riese’s fanfic to be…

Analyssa: But Riese is reading me bedtime stories.

Drew: I know. I just want to say that The L Word… I feel like that’s how The L Word writers think: “Well, it’s either this or it’s this.” And it’s like, no, there’s a whole world of conflict.

Riese: Right. It’s just, it’s season two. How hard is it to still have ideas?

Drew: I know. And you have a million characters. You have to give three minutes to each character every episode. Come on.

Riese: Right. And I know they were restricted by COVID, in terms of what they could do. But also I feel like they did a great job of that because they were setting up these inter group romances that were really fun for us. And then they just fucking blew it.

Analyssa: There could constantly be conflict. I would think that this show was a vast improvement over the episodes we’ve seen, the last two, if they just sat all of them at the poker table again and had everybody kind of snark at each other, I’d be like, “Sick. Let’s go”

Drew: Great, great.

Analyssa: That’s great.

Drew: Yeah. Well that wasn’t great. So maybe…

Analyssa: I wasn’t as demoralized after this one, as I was after the first one.

Drew: I was more prepared.

Analyssa: I was mad about the Finley storyline. Much more than I had been, but I wasn’t as much like, “What the fuck is going on?”

Drew: Yeah. It’s more competently written.

Riese: Yeah, it was definitely better than last week. But also we also knew, because Lauren had already said that she hated it. So I was already prepared a little bit for that.

Drew: That’s true. I have no idea what to expect next week, but we’ll be here.

Riese: I’m dreading it. I’m not dreading it, but I’m not excited. Because the way every — the direction that everything is going in is a direction that I don’t care for.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah.

Drew: A real shame.

Analyssa: What if everyone had chaperoned Jordi and Angie’s prom?

Riese: That would’ve been a fun little bottle episode.

Analyssa: And I don’t know, Sophie had to do it because she had to do a favor for Alice, or something.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And you could even still have Finley trying really hard not to drink at prom. Sneaking into the bathroom…

Riese: Yeah. And it’s like, “Now you’re drinking with 12-year-old boys. You have a problem.”

Analyssa: There’s something to talk about.

Drew: That sounds like a much better…

Analyssa: Alice has to decide if she should bring Tom or not.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Remember when Alice was like, it’s weird to just bring a guy into this and it was like, I have an idea. Bring him.

Analyssa: Let’s see what that looks like.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Drew: Mine is lethargic because watching bad television makes me feel lethargic. I’m just so tired. I’m just so tired.

Analyssa: I have a good one.

Riese: Yeah?

Analyssa: Mine is lip lock, because I would like to see more kissing.

Riese: Yeah, there was no sex scene in this episode.

Analyssa: I don’t think anybody put their mouths on each other.

Drew: In what context could they have had sex that wouldn’t make me miserable? Well, Shane and Tess had a little bit of kissing, but they’re the only couple who can have sex right now that wouldn’t make me feel a little bit gross. Well, I guess, Bette and Pippa, but they’re not… Are they even a couple still or is it going to be Bette and Tina forever? Oh, okay. So what’s your… Do you want to say lactose intolerant?

Riese: We really lost Drew on that one. Yeah. My L word this week is lactose intolerant, because I think that’s what Finley was suffering from at the end of the episode. Everyone was like, oh you’re drunk. And it’s like, I don’t know. Maybe she had milk.

Drew: I think you’ve put about as much thought into your L-Words this season as the writers have put into the show.

Riese: Thank you. And I want the writers of the show to know that I would put more effort into it if I was hired to work for your show.

Analyssa: Finley’s either suffering from lactose intolerance or that disease on SpongeBob, where everyone gets the suds.

Drew: I would like to say also that I’m critiquing the show, not any individual people. See you later!

Riese: Bye guys, have a nice day!

“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 208: Launch Party

So is this is how season 2 implodes – not with a bang, but with a deeply confusing whimper? Welcome to this week’s episode of To L and Back where, honestly, we have some notes! We spend quite a bit of time talking about the writing of this episode of Gen Q, rather than the actual events that transpire, which as Riese says is….not always a great sign.

But among the needless conflicts (Dani thinking Bette would want to see the Nunez name on the CAC, and gambling Pippa’s show for leverage), the baffling conversations (Micah telling Claudia he has feeling for someone else to her FACE), and the upsetting events (Sophie and Finley’s whole deal), there were still some treats! Micah’s jawline, for one, and Gigi’s tongue, for two. Throw in a sex scene backlit by the soft neon lights of the Las Vegas strip and you still have a tough episode — but one that had a sex scene backlit by the soft neon lights of the Las Vegas strip.

SHOW NOTES

  • Riese’s recap of the episode, the comments of which are heartening to me
  • Candace the Carpenter draws Bette the Project Management Triangle in The L Word 1×12 “Looking Back” aka the Dinah Shore episode
  • Perhaps you, too, would have liked to spend more time with Isis King in this episode, and I would invite you to spend more time with her Instagram
  • Britni de la Cretaz wrote this insightful essay about how Gen Q struggled with sobriety storylines LAST SEASON and here we are again
  • A quick reminder that the Sackler family was not just “blacklisted,” they were actively bad!
  • Roxane Gay recently wrote the Criterion essay for Love & Basketball!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Annalyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

All: And this is To L and Back, Generation Q edition.

Drew: Yay! We’re still together, but-

Analyssa: We are still together.

Drew: … the mood is-

Analyssa: The mood has shifted.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Dampened. Morale is low.

Riese: Morale is low. I’m not just saying that because I took two beta blockers today. My morale would’ve been low anyway.

Analyssa: Well, well, well, well, well, well. That’s how I feel.

Riese: Well.

Drew: I will say that sometimes the mood has been low in recording this podcast because of things going on in the world, and not that the world’s great. We are still in a pandemic.

Riese: Yeah, the world’s not great.

Drew: And there’s a lot of other things that are bad, but our mood is low today because of our topic of conversation.

Riese: Because we watched this episode today.

Drew: Yeah. So, this episode, that is episode 2.08, Launch Party, it’s directed by Haifaa al-Mansour who I actually really, really like. I’ve seen two of her movies: Wadjda and Mary Shelley. I really liked both of them. She’s directed a few other movies and she also directed an episode of The Wilds. I thought this episode was-

Analyssa: I like The Wilds.

Drew: Yeah. I thought this episode was very well-directed. That was not one of my problems with it.

Riese: I also liked The Wilds.

Drew: It was written by Melody Derloshon who wrote on Cougar Town and Future Man and wrote last season’s episode, LA Times.

Riese: Oh, I loved that one.

Analyssa: Which one was that one?

Riese: The threesome.

Drew: That’s the threesome.

Analyssa: Oh, great ep.

Drew: Yeah. But I think we might as well just get into it.

Transition Music…

Analyssa: Well, well, well.

Riese: We open at jail.

Analyssa: Well, so one thing I thought it just immediately was the color of Los Angeles in the open is so different than it has ever been in The L Word: Generation Q. It’s usually pinks and blues and this is gray and yellow: very Steven Soderbergh’s Los Angeles. and that’s how you know we’re going into a serious episode.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Because as Riese said, yes, we’re in jail. Well, we’re not in jail. We’re at the steps of—

Riese: Yeah, we’re famously not in jail. Finley has emerged from her evening in jail. She did not have a nice time.

Drew: No. So we start with my first of many things that I have a problem with in this episode, which is that Finley makes a drop-the-soap joke, which I just thought culturally we’d understood that—

Riese: They made one in the original series!

Drew: In the original? Well yeah, of course they made-

Riese: They made like, two!

Drew: Of course they made one in the original series-

Riese: They love dropping the soap!

Drew: … 2004. But it’s just like, “Jesus.” I think prison rape jokes were just like we’ve all collectively decided that that’s not a thing we do anymore, but-

Riese: Surprise!

Drew: Nope. They’re still doing it.

Riese: It turns out that it is. Isn’t that the first line?

Drew: Yeah, but really, really-

Analyssa: Basically, yes.

Riese: I’m already in a bad mood.

Analyssa: Basically, Finley’s like, “Did you bring me pizza?” And then, “I didn’t drop the soap. Don’t worry.” And then, launches into all of the various details both of her night, which I found a little bit distasteful, her retelling of it, and then all the things that now she has to do. It sounds like she owes Sophie money. This whole thing was just a mess of details that I felt maybe this was not the time to share them or talk about them, but-

Riese: Okay. I would’ve liked to actually have rewritten the scene that led to this where they’re outside the car, and so I would love for that scene… Sophie realizes, “We’re both wasted,” like always because whenever they go out together they get wasted and it’s like, “We need to get a lift.” And Finley’s like, “No, no. I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine. I’m totally fine. Drive. I insist on driving. I’m definitely driving. I am the driver.” You know?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Just a little bit more of that. It would take two extra lines to make it hit a little harder I think.

Analyssa: Because as it is, sort of what we were talking about last episode, they both feel at fault quote unquote. Yes, Finley was the driver, but they both knew that they were both drinking. It just seems…

Riese: Yeah. They should have… First of all, when you go out, especially for them, they always get trashed, so always. And obviously, they’re both also… I mean, Finley’s always drinking a lot, but Sophie is going through a lot of shit right now, so she’s definitely going to be wasted. So why do they even drive there in the first place? But since they did, they would’ve talked about that at the beginning of the night like who’s going to drive, which they didn’t do either. Sophie was with Finley all night, so it’s not a surprise to her that Finley’s had several drinks. She actually saw her. I’m not saying that Sophie’s at fault for this, but they both made that decision about the driving. You know what I mean? So I think they should go halfsies on the impound.

Analyssa: Well it just-

Riese: But most of it’s on Finley.

Drew: Once again, I’m just constantly trying to figure out what these writers are doing. I’m just like, so if this is supposed to be Finley’s rock bottom, then I just am like, why are we muddling that unless it’s also…? I think as the episode goes on it’s also a wake-up call for Sophie, but I’m not sold on it. Just, Sophie’s journey does not feel clear to me.

Analyssa: And what I wish for Sophie’s journey is that you get the sense in this, that she is annoyed and peeved mostly at Finley’s just joking through it. It seems pretty evident that she wants Finley to take it seriously, which I think is totally fair. And I wish that, like you said, there’s two lines that could have been added where I’d be totally on Sophie’s side and I really wanted to be because I think I feel —

Riese: It doesn’t hit.

Analyssa: … it doesn’t land because I feel like we’ve seen her, especially to Finley, be so empathetic and so understanding. Drunk driving is bad, but this is a big deal for Finley too, and she’s clearly using humor to not talk about all the things that are actually going to happen. That is very annoying when you’re the person on the other side of it. But there was no line that said like, “Hey man, I’m trying to talk about a big night that you just had and you keep making jokes about your cellmate drooling on you. Can we like talk? Can we chat?” That never happened and I just felt bummed that Sophie didn’t get that chance, I think.

Drew: We’ll get into this later, but I think what’s hard is that I think they’re out this episode. What I think the issue is, and a lot of throughout this season, is trying to have a lot of fun moments and a lot of dramatic moments. Sometimes they are canceling each other out instead of living side by side in the sense that this season when we’ve seen Sophie and Finley out together, them getting drunk together has been framed as fun—

Riese: Funsies.

Drew: … and has been the basis of their relationship, which doesn’t feel unrealistic, but it’s just then all of a sudden Sophie being like, “You scare…” We’ll, save that for later, but it just… I don’t know. So, we can move on to the next scene, which is another winner.

Riese: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: Also baffling to me.

Drew: Speaking of scenes that make us want to claw our eyes out…

Riese: Do you think people are even going to listen to this podcast episode?

Drew: I don’t know. I think they watch the same episode, but people are maybe more of apologists than we are sometimes. I don’t know.

Analyssa: I honestly could talk about that first scene for half an hour.

Drew: I know.

Riese: Me too.

Analyssa: And let me tell you it returns. That scene comes back, so we can talk more later. Bette and Dani are at the CAC and first Bette says, “She doesn’t give about Gigi,” and I was like, “As we’ve all been saying.” Because she has seen that Dani has bought a wing of the CAC. I’m going to say front I’m famously stupid. I don’t really think I followed all the mechanics of what was at stake in this situation.

Riese: Good news. I re-watched all the relevant parts this morning.

Analyssa: Great. But I do understand that Bette is upset about this because Dani’s family money is basically dirty money. Right?

Riese: So her father’s company, they have investments. They have a portfolio of investments and one of their investments makes opioids.

Analyssa: Sorry. What I meant when I said dirty money, I don’t mean crime money. I mean it comes from immoral businesses.

Riese: Yeah. Some of it comes from… yeah … as opposed to every other company, which I think as we all know in this capitalist society, most companies…

Analyssa: Famously good.

Riese: Famously good, famously great portfolios.

Drew: I think what mainly confused me was just what have been the conversations between Bette and Dani about her relationship to her father, her involvement in this company. I think I’m more just was like, “Wait, well what’s their relationship?” Like if they’re close, have they covered this before? Wouldn’t Bette be more aware of Dani’s relationship with her father and her involvement in the company and be okay with that; and/or wouldn’t Dani be more like, “Oh, I know that this is a thing that Bette would not like.” Or, “This is something that I should maybe talk to Bette about it ahead of time to be like, ‘Hey, I want to use this money in this good way. Is this actually a good thing?” But she didn’t do that. She just was like, “Surprise! My last name is on.” They wanted to turn into this thing where it’s like, “That’s your father’s last name,” and it’s like, “It’s my last name too.” And it’s like, “But that’s not… But why didn’t you say anything?”

Riese: Also, it’s very common last name.

Drew: It’s a very common last name. I very much understand where Bette’s coming from. I also am just very confused how we got to this conflict. It feels so manufactured and so just like…

Riese: Right. The rules of surprises, I would say one of the main ones is if you’ve ever had a conflict about the thing you’re surprising someone with, you have to check in with them first. It is bananas that Dani did not check in with Bette about this. But it was also difficult for me because Bette this whole season’s been trying to get people to sign into her gallery owned by this racist, rich guy. And it’s like, “We’re all making compromises.” You know?

Drew: Yeah, excellent point.

Riese: And Dani’s trying to turn… I don’t know. Can Dani turn around? Can Dani move their money around? What’s happening? I don’t even really understand what their stake is in this, what their complicity is like if they actually are a company that was aware of all the things that the Sacklers were aware of and just kept pouring money in? You know what I mean? I have no idea. None.

Analyssa: I do understand, like you said Drew, where Bette is coming from and I wish that… I guess I don’t wish because I think it’s apparent, but that it also has so much to do with Kit. Like you can tell that that is the driving thing, which later comes up with Pippa I think although, again, very obliquely. I don’t know. Anyway.

Drew: It’s just not clear from either a detail standpoint or Dani and Bette’s relationship standpoint. It’s all just so muddled in a way and it’s so serious. This topic is so heavy and serious and also is about Kit, which is… It’s emotionally heavy and serious. It’s politically heavy and serious and they take the same care with it as they do a soapy cheating storyline that also doesn’t make any sense, but it’s like this isn’t fun. If it’s like a soapy cheating story line and it doesn’t really make any sense, I’m like, “I’m on board. Let’s watch hot people have sex.” But-

Riese: Don’t do issues. Stop it. If anyone’s listening, we don’t want you to do political issues.

Drew: You’re not good at it.

Riese: So just stop it. That’s my opinion.

Drew: I think this specific show has shown themselves to not particularly to be good when trying to get serious and get political. And then going into Dani, going to Gigi and being like…

Dani: Fuck Bette Porter.

Drew: … and them having sex and it’s like, “I’m not enjoying this. These very hot people are having a very good sex scene and I am not enjoying this because-”

Riese: You weren’t enjoying the sex scene? That’s bad. Wow!

Drew: I know and I was so excited to watch these two people have sex, and I was like, “I’m not going to-”

Riese: You were still like, “Wait, what?”

Drew: I was like, “No, I’m not excited to watch.” The passion of this scene is being motivated by Dani being like, “I want to defend my evil father against black artists.” I’m like, “I’m not going to be able to enjoy that sex scene.” And so I’m like, this is the thing where they’re undercutting what they do well by doing these other things poorly and I just… Also, why did her name have to be on the wing? Couldn’t they just…? I don’t know.

Analyssa: Because it’s a rehabilitation for her right dad’s name, which is… The other thing I think that actually might be interesting, but is totally lost, is how Dani, even in thinking that she’s doing good, is really still just doing PR for her dad’s company by this thing. And later we’ll talk about, she says like, “Well, we’ll just double the end dominant and they won’t be able to say no,” and I was like, “That’s also kind of stressful.” It doesn’t feel good either. There’s just… I’m not coming to The L Word for this type of plot line and I wish that it worked so integral to characters that I wish I were getting to know personally and not to their… I don’t know. I hate to be, “TV shouldn’t care about social issues,” because-

Riese: This TV show shouldn’t.

Analyssa: But this TV show maybe shouldn’t. And moreso I think maybe we should be thinking about how much we care about social issues when we write characters, so then we don’t do needlessly shitty and harmful things to our characters. But I don’t think we need our characters to be talking about social issues and how good they’re doing or how bad they’re doing at those.

Drew: Unless-

Riese: Yeah, exactly.

Drew: Unless you do it and you actually are thinking about it all the time. I think what bothers me about this show is that they’re like, “Oh, we’re going to have this conversation happen,” and you’re like, “Okay, but do you see how having this then impacts these other things?” and they don’t seem to…? I don’t know. It’s frustrating when it’s a thing where you’re like, “Oh, do they realize that this cute moment between Sophie and Finley is very negatively affecting Dani in this way that sort of ruins this moment.” That’s like, “Whatever.” I can get over that. When it’s like, “Oh, it’s that sort of problem of not thinking how things affect other things,” and it then turns Dani into like this really terrible person, it’s just… That can be her journey. Right? She can be imperfect, but the journey of the episode was not that she goes to Bette and goes like, “I realized that I was trying to do good, but I still was doing what my dad wanted me to do.” It’s her going to Gigi and being like, “Thanks for giving me the courage.” And so it’s like it could have been a really interesting thing where Dani’s like, “But I did good,” and then Bette’s like, “No, you didn’t.” That could have been a very interesting storyline, but they don’t want that because they want Dani and Gigi to be together; they want Ben and Pippa to be together. And so then, they’re not actually thinking about what they’re doing politically. They’re just saying politics.

Riese: Right, yeah. They’re just saying words.

Analyssa: One thing about the sex scene though that I did enjoy-

Drew: Yeah. We could talk about that. I don’t need… Yeah.

Analyssa: So Sepideh Moafi deserves an Emmy for her tongue work.

Riese: Yes, she does.

Analyssa: Her tongue is acting. Her tongue has more compelling storylines this season than many of the core characters, I will argue.

Riese: Absolutely.

Analyssa: I also — Justice for Gigi oen more time. I’m making a T-shirt that says it — because everyone uses having sex with Gigi as like-

Riese: I KNOW!

Analyssa: … as a release valve for all their other emotions, which is like…

Riese: Also like, is she free? They just come on… I mean that’s TV. That’s TV. That’s fine, but-

Analyssa: But it’s always… Gigi is always just-

Riese: A reaction.

Analyssa: … sitting on a sofa waiting for Bette or Dani, or Nat and Alice, or Nat to storm through the door ready to have sex because something else is going on. And I just want to say that’s not a nice way to treat people.

Drew: No, it isn’t. Now that I’ve watch this episode, we’re going to discuss it. I think I’m going to re-watch the sex scene later because these two actors didn’t do anything wrong. So, I’m just going to watch-

Riese: That’s art. That’s the kind of art that I want to see at the California Art Center sponsored by some…

Analyssa: Evil Corp Los Angeles.

Riese: The Peabodys.

Analyssa: When Bette said…

Bette Porter: It’s not over. I can call Peggy.

Analyssa: I was like, “Will you?”

Drew: I was like, “Wait, this could take a good turn?”

Riese: “Could you? Could you? Could you?

Analyssa: Is it going to happen?

Riese: “Could you, please?” But also, I can’t believe that this… It’s so… Sorry. It’s just dumb that it has gotten this far where their name is literally already up.

Drew: Yeah. What? How do things get [inaudible 00:17:30]? How does it get so good?

Riese: And why is it right at the front of the fucking museum?

Analyssa: It’s on the front door of the CAC, an institution that has been around for decades. There’s no way. And secondly, it happens so quickly.

Riese: I learned something from that carpenter, which is the triangle: time, money… You know?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Riese: And what hap…?

Analyssa: Yeah. What did we sacrifice?

Riese: Exactly.

Analyssa: Well, we did sacrifice money because Dani has enough of it, I’ve learned.

Drew: It’s going to rub right off. Just going to be like when you get into a little car accident and you’re like, “Oh no, is this going to…?” And you rub it off and you go, “Oh, thank God.” That’s her last name. It could rub right out.

Analyssa: When Bette got mad, I wished Dani had been like, “Okay, hold on,” and just held out a little bit of Windex and scrubbed it—

Riese: “No-one will know!”

Analyssa: And we could have moved on from this storyline, but-

Riese: They should have just called it The Dani Wing.

Drew: Yeah. Well again, you’re right, Ana, that it is like they’re trying to… That’s the whole thing is that they want to rehabilitate the image and blah, blah, blah.

Analyssa: And Dani, I think, she’s doing it for good reasons, but the tangible reality of it is that she’s not — okay, we have to-

Drew: Wait. No, wait. Sorry. I have one more thing, which is that given the way that Dani thinks about Bette Porter, I do not believe that when Bette got mad at her that she wouldn’t immediately have stuck her tail between her legs and been like, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry. I was trying to…” You know what I mean?

Riese: That’s what I thought was going to happen.

Drew: I’m so confused by her reaction being like, “Fuck Bette Porter.”

Analyssa: Also, Bette is pretty firmly in the right, so to have Dani storm off and be like, “Fuck her,” is like…

Drew: What does the show want us to think?

Analyssa: Well, we’re still in this plot line for a while.

Riese: Yeah, we are.

Drew: Yeah, right. Because Bette goes to talk to… Yeah.

Analyssa: Bette is in her office talking to Pippa. And in another example of people-

Riese: Baffling.

Analyssa: … saying that they are doing the thing for the right reason, but ultimately harming people in the process, Bette is using Pippa’s work in the show as a bargaining chip with CAC to turn down the Núñez endowment. If you note that I’m talking slow because, again, famously stupid. Actually, I don’t think that’s true. I think that I would understand this if it were more sensical.

Riese: And Pippa’s like, “Well, art museums need money from somewhere,” whatever, which is I think a solid point. But also, what…? I remember the original series and it’s hard to get funding at the CAC. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: I’ve heard that. Yeah.

Riese: So it doesn’t seem like this is a very smart move for Bette at all.

Drew: No.

Riese: I don’t think this is going to work and it’s so shitty. Pippa almost cried in her office about all of her work and how much it means to her. And Bette cried about how it means so much to her and then she fucking went to the board and was like, “I’m going to withdraw this artist.” That’s so selfish and dumb.

Analyssa: Yeah. And again, I really think that Dani and Bette parallels here are so present. Because what I believe is that Bette does really believe in the move that she has made as a chess move and in the same way that Dani thinks of the move that she has made for putting the name on the gallery of a good move, it will work. It will do the things she wants it to do. But it feels very in character for Bette to be a champion of the art and the causes that she’s a champion of. It feels out of character after this season with her journey with Pippa and what they’ve talked about together that she would even put this at risk, which is what Pippa’s saying. Like, “Why would you do that?”

Riese: Obviously, I think, it’s motivated out of her feelings about Kit and driven by that, which was a shitty decision that the show made to be begin with. And so, that’s why she’s so passionate about it, but I also think it’s complicated because she just spent so long trying to convince Pippa to make compromises to sign with her gallery and now she’s like…

Drew: These two characters have been on the opposite side of this conversation, and also… Okay, I have a few things. One is the two of them are dating now. And while you shouldn’t date people who you work with, one thing that does happen if you date people who you work with is things that would be work conversations, become personal life conversations as well. So she’s not just her artist that she’s representing, she’s also her girlfriend or maybe no labels yet, but something. And so, then the question becomes, in what context would they not have talked about it? So then the other thing that that brings me to…They not have talked about it. So then the other thing that brings me to is why would it not have been a situation of like, if they wanted this storyline of like, Dani wants this wing and it’s complicated because of like, I just am confused why Pippa wouldn’t have been on the side of like, I don’t want to work with this person. That’s exactly why I didn’t want to make these sacrifices. Like that would be more in line with the character of Pippa.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Who’s been introduced that, like, she didn’t want to work with Zacharian and now she wouldn’t want to work with Dani’s dad or like take or be like represent, whatever connected with Dani’s dad. Again, like it’s… There are these deeper issues that bother me. And then there’s just the character motivation stuff where I’m like, some of these things in other characters voices would actually make more sense and would work more. And I’m just confused why the… Okay and again, it feels like, oh, we needed Bette and Pippa to be in a fight. We needed that to be the… A conflict as well. And it’s like—

Riese: And I mean, I do think that they kind of redeem it, one of the only things that happens in this episode, that kind of makes sense, it does seem like that is a “she fucked up”. Like she did do something out of carelesssness—

Analyssa: Yes. And there’s like a-

Riese: An acknowledgement of it

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: … And talking, communicating about it.

Drew: Absolutely.

Analyssa: But before that, we do find out that… That Bette has lost Pippa of the show. She takes a call outside of her office. Like clearly this did not go well. And then we get Jennifer Beals yelling “fuck” in her office –

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: … which is always to me, very pleasing.

Bette: Fuck! Fuck!

Riese: I think we should have followed Pippa at that point, you know?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Honestly that’s…

Anaylssa: Yes. I wish we had seen Pippa’s reaction-

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: … And what was going on there. But again, a moment most pleasing to me is when Jennifer Beals is yelling curse words in this show.

Drew: I also did enjoy that she brought up Provocations. Love that. And I think with her relationship with Pippa, I think there’s like some really interesting things that the show could be exploring.

Ries: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: And is maybe trying to explore and maybe will explore or is exploring. I just don’t trust them. I think that’s something that I’ve been thinking about a lot is just like, oh, there are like really interesting things that could be happening. And usually when I’m watching a TV show, if I’m like in the middle of the season, I will feel a level of, let’s see where this is going. Because I think that sometimes viewers get mad at characters or get mad at where storylines are going. And it’s like, no, no, no, this is… It’s serialized storytelling, we’re getting there, this character’s on a journey. This character’s getting to a certain place and they could land the plane.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: And maybe I will be like I… We said that last time then we talked about flight, then… Now we’re going to have to do it again. But… Or we don’t, I can… I can use a different metaphor.

Riese: They definitely… They turned the plane upside down time, but it didn’t land.

Drew: But-

Riese: It still hasn’t landed.

Drew: … Also, it’s just a question of like, I’m realizing that for myself after, two seasons into the show, I just don’t really trust them. So when something feels complicated or bad, I’m not like, “oh, well let’s see where this goes.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: I’m like, “why are they having that character do that? Why is this what the storyline is?”

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Drew: And I’d love to be proven wrong, but…

Analyssa: It’s not going to happen in this episode.

Drew: No it isn’t.

Analyssa: One other thing though about bringing up provocations that I just remembered is famously it was hard to get Provocations at CAC.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Analyssa: She’s like “CAC my beloved CAC!”

Drew: Wasn’t she fired from CAC?

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Where Provocations was— like this is the gallery that shows Provocations, they will obviously—

Drew: Yes.

Riese: But like, that was because you shoved it down their throats! No one wanted it but you—

Drew: Yes.

Riese: …They wanted impressionists in winter!

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: They really wanted Impressionists in Winter and like again, good on Bette for getting Provocations through and continuing to talk about it. Great career when… But I was like… But do you remember that it was really tough to get Provocations there? –

Riese: Yes..

Analyssa: … Like this might…This gambit of gambling this gambit of gambling.

Riese: Exactly.

Anaylssa: Pippa’s chances-.. on the endowment. Okay.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Let’s get into the last storyline that is… [crosstalk 00:26:03].

Drew: Moving on to the storyline, that there was a period of time where I was watching this episode and I went, “this episode is frustrating to me, but this is one of two storylines I’m really liking!” And then they ruined it. Anyways, not that yet. So it’s Isis King who I love, who’s such a talented actor and… Well first… Okay. So Micah basically burst in this persons office and is mad because a doctor at the center recommended that one of Micah’s clients go on puberty blockers, and Micah is mad because Micah is… His parents, aren’t going to sign off on this and you’re giving him false hope and he’s like very mad. And he just starts like bursts into the office.

Analyssa: Comes in very hot.

Drew: But the doctor is played by Isis King who is just phenomenal, was so good in When They See Us and is just-

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: … A great actor.

Riese: She was the first trans model in America’s Next Top Model.

Analyssa: I didn’t know that. In my head cannon they cast her and then Micah and Isis got in the room together and they were fun and had… And they were like, oh, let’s do something with this, instead of just a fight about a client, which I think is probably what it all started as—

Drew: Well… Cause she like says…

Claudia: With as much professionalism as I can muster, which is considerably more than you manage to gather before baring into my office. I want to remind you that I am a doctor with a medical degree. I always have my patients best interest at heart.
Micah: I don’t disagree with you.
Claudia: I honestly wouldn’t care if you did.

Drew: I immediately loved her and was like, I want to watch a show all about you. But so that’s where that scene ends. Well we’ll return to that. But for now we’re going to Alice’s book launch.

Riese: Alrighty. Alice’s book is coming out in an underground bunker and everybody’s there in a land with no time. It is only Alice’s book. And we learned the following: nobody at the CAC will talk to Bette. Surprise, no one at the CAC wanted to talk to Bette when she worked there! Tess and Shane they’re dating, but Tess in Vegas.

Drew: And Alice says that Shane loves Tess-

Riese: Yes.

Drew: … From the moment she met her, which is a little bit of rewriting history, but I love it. I’m on board. That’s Shane… Shane and Tess, I love this.

Riese: Yes. That she apparently has loved Tess from the moment she saw her, which okay.

Analyssa: Alice hasn’t talked to Tom about Nat, she doesn’t want to…

Riese: What? Sorry I need to start complaining about this already. Why would you do it right now? It’s your fucking book launch party! It makes no sense. Makes no sense.

Analyssa: Makes no sense.

Riese: When she’s like, “should I tell him” — the obvious answer is, “yeah, LATER!”

Analyssa: Yes. When he has a hotel room to go have a conversation in… you could have just been like, yes, I will stay the night after this party, but we do have something to talk about. Nope. Okay. I do relate to Alice in many ways, as I’ve said, I think on the very podcast, but I do relate to being like, “‘I have something big to talk about” and it has to happen before a certain time. And so then you put it off and put it off and put it off. And you have about 30 seconds to say it—

Riese: That’s when I just don’t say it.

Analyssa: … I used to have conversations like this with my parents when we were in the car driving somewhere because they were trapped. But then I would only do it when we were about to pull up to the next thing. Like that’s what Alice feels like she’s doing. But it is nonsensical. I have mostly grown out of it cause I’m grown up now.

Riese: Finley and Sophie and show up, Finley and Tom have an incredible-

Analyssa: When did they come up with it?

Riese: … handshake. Well, probably in a scene that we didn’t see.

Analyssa: I love that for them.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Riese: Yes. I love this for them

Analyssa: I thought you would like him because I remembered you saying you wanted them to spend time together.

Riese: Yes. And Finley is making jokes about jail.

Drew: Yeah. So Finley says, “I’ve met a lot of people in my life, but jail people are way different.” and is also like “bad night great story!” I hate it. I hate it so much. I just… I just like… What??!! I’m aware that the writers of The L Word have different politics than I do. I just am confused how some of these things… It just feel it’s just so callous and so… I don’t know, just like jokes that feel they’d be made 10 years ago and they wouldn’t have been good 10 years ago either. But I just thought that culturally we moved forward in our understanding of jails and prisons. And it’s not that Finley necessarily… I guess it makes sense for Finley but I also am like, “okay, I don’t like you.”

Analyssa: But a joke that would also make sense for Finley that reminds everyone that she was in jail is if she was talking about pooping into a metal can… Like that is also really on brand for her and doesn’t involve any of the other people that she was in jail with, any of the other people who might be going through something in their life who are imprisoned in an unjust system. We don’t need to get super deep into it, but I just… There are different ways to write that, to make it the same kind of thing, which is actually, like as a person of drinking experience — or as a person of now sober experience, I should say, the jokes about a really bad night actually feel very realistic to me.

Riese: Yes. For sure.

Analyssa: Sort of like Tess being like, she hasn’t broken a bone or broken a dish.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Like, ha ha, that kind of thing is like when you’re in… At least in my experience, I should say, in like active alcoholism  — there is a desire to do that because it’s like “I have everything under control, that’s just a silly, goofy thing that happened. Ha ha!”

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Rise: Yes.

Analyssa: And so that all felt really real but then the other stuff felt really like mean at the expense of other people-

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Analyssa: … who don’t have anything to do with this and just happened to be in the jail the same night as Finley. And it just felt unnecessary. Again because it could be like, “I puked my guts out on the floor of a cell, isn’t that embarrassing? Or like, “I had to sleep in my clothes on a metal bench, that sucks.” You know, but there are just so many other on brand jokes.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Which Drew like… like you said…  Sometimes they put stuff right next to each other where I’m like, that actually is really enlightening about Finley’s character that she would say, ha ha a Dewey or “horrible night great story. Am I right?” That stuff, I was like great character building. And then she’s like, but jail people, blah, blah, blah.

Drew: And the L Word audience is going to like Finley. Like obviously some people don’t like Finley, but for the most part, your average L Word viewer, Finley is made in a laboratory for the lesbian community at large to love her. That is the person who just has the easiest time skating through. I mean there are things we know about Finley and Finley’s life. And obviously Finley has issues and has trauma, et cetera, et cetera, but like—

Analyssa: But people hold Finley, the way that Dani said last episode.

Drew: …Yes. So when Finley makes a joke, I think there are a lot of people out there who are on board and it doesn’t mean that she can’t be flawed, but again, you just illustrated how that could be done not at other people’s expense. Okay.

Riese: Then we go back to Gigi’s and Dani has a phone call because now everyone’s in crisis because of…

Analyssa: Because Bette didn’t like the surprise.

Riesee: Because Bette hated her surprise and Gigi is-

Analyssa: Which again, bad surprise. It’s Dani’s fault that Bette didn’t like the surprise!

Riese: … Yes. And Gigi is like, it’s not working for me—

Analyssa: Okay.

Riese: But like, Dani has to go to work!

Analyssa: I understand the thing that’s happening here. And they talk about it later and good. They’re all communicating — and again, as a person, I’m going to keep saying this-

Riese: As a person of human experience.

Analyssa: … A person of human experience, but also as a person of very demanding job experience sometimes, and this is a little bit of a character flaw as it is here in Dani too. I hate when people are like, “but what if you just set a boundary this time?”

Riese: Yes!

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: “But do you always jump for your boss?”

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Like? Yeah, I do! Because I work at my job and I know the level of demanding that my job and I’m really sorry that it’s impeding on what you think I should be doing.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: And I agree with Gigi later. Dani is not kind to Gigi-

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: … And that is something to discuss. But what is not really something that’s fun to discuss, especially if you’re a person who, like Dani, and like me don’t tell anyone-

Riese: And like me.

Drew: Me too.

Analyssa: … doesn’t always love how demanding your job is? Nobody’s like, “Yeah, fuck yeah! I lose days of my life to this. I can’t have a real life.”

Riese: “If this phone call had come in the middle of sex, I still would’ve had to answer it. Yes, this is my terrible life.”

Analyssa: Dani has thought about this, and Dani is a grown up and has come to the conclusion —
“if this phone call came during sex, I would have to take it and I’m sorry, but that’s just the matter of it.” And when people do that—

Riese: It’s the middle of the day, also.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: … When people do that little cloying-

Riese: I hate it.

Analyssa: … And like touchy of like, what if you just like, oh, but isn’t it like. No, I have to work. I’m sorry. I also don’t love it.

Drew: What this episode eventually wants us to get is that in this moment, Gigi is suggesting boundaries with Dani’s father in a way that’s really positive. What this scene communicates is that Gigi is not respectful to Dani’s work and her desire to work. And she’s always… That’s a big part of her personality is that she like is that work is important to her regardless of what her work is. So this scene does not accomplish what it’s supposed to be accomplishing in the arc of this episode.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: And it ultimately, yes. I’m like, oh God-

Analyssa: It’s always just like…

Drew: … The first time that I haven’t wanted to date Gigi.

Analyssa: I was just like, “yes babe, I would ignore this call from my boss if I could. That’s just simply right-”

Riese: That’s the thing, people will be like, “the internet can wait” And I’m like, actually it really can’t. Unfortunately it moves pretty fast!

Drew: And she just could have instead, had framed it, not from a place of “you shouldn’t work,” but from a place of “your dad is doing the thing that you’ve told me your dad does.”

Riese: But now it’s not the time for her to do that.

Drew: No. But I’m just saying that would’ve accomplished more of what going for then her just being like, what if you just didn’t work right now?

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: It’s like, what? No. Okay. So going back to Micah. Micah runs after Claudia to apologize to her and…

Riese: Ends up aking her on a date?

Drew: Yes. So…

Analyssa: He’s jawline asks her out on a date. I’m sorry. Let’s just take one second. There’s a lot of stuff going on in this episode. And I think we should acknowledge the little treats for us, the viewers that exist. And one of them is Micah’s jawline in this scene.

Drew: Yes. So he’s… He basically is like, look…

Micah: I need to apologize for lashing out at you.
Claudia: Yes. You really came in hot.
Micah: I know, I know. It’s just, you know, with Joaquin…
Claudia: You care. Me too.
Micah: But also I was Joaquin. I had a one meeting, pediatrician, who said I could start blockers and a mom who disagreed. I fell into a really deep depression after that.
Claudia: It took me 30 years to screw up the courage and go to a doctor and ask for HRT. I wish more than anything, I could have started sooner.

Drew: Yes. I don’t know how old she’s supposed to be. I guess I was like, is she 30? Like did she transition at 30? How old is she?

Analyssa: It felt like “I wasted 30 years of my life total,” which is just…

Drew: But still I would like to say that maybe… I mean, as I’ve said, I love Isis King. I’m so glad she’s in this. But also, it reminds me a little bit, of unposed whenever they’re talking about how like clocky MJ is. And I’m like, okay, that’s a bit of a stretch. What if any show ever cast someone who was trans and looked like a little bit gender nonconforming? What would happen? But yes… So I don’t know when she was supposed to have transitioned, but I don’t even know but I did enjoy the flirting. And so at this point in this moment, I was just really enjoying this. She asks if he can cook and then he’s like, yes, sort of. And she’s like, what’s your address? And then she’s like, “cute I’ll be over later.” I mean it’s crazy how quickly this happens with like a… They work together. Like it is a no. It’s a no, but it’s a kind of no that on The L Word I’m like, I can live with this no. This… These hot people are flirting. These hot trans people are flirting. I was like, I am so excited about this. Finally I was —

Riese: I’m so sorry.

Drew: … So excited.

Analyssa: Yes. As a person of dating in Los Angeles experience, I’m going to say — now I’ve done it so times that I have to make it a bit for this episode, I’m sorry —

Drew: Great. Keep going.

Analyssa: I’ve never in my experience scheduled a date day of…

Riese: I’ve never scheduled anything day of besides recording this podcast—

Anaylssa: —which happened today.

Drew: Well I’ve never scheduled a date. I guess I scheduled a hook-up.

Analyssa: I was going to say, I’ve definitely texted someone, been like, “what are you doing later tonight? Let’s roll around.” For sure. But like, we’re going to go on a first date and we talked today and now it’s tonight?

Drew: No, no.

Analyssa: It’s also friends time for us, for me to discuss—

Drew: The song?

Analyssa: … The music choices.  In this here series. I don’t think one single song queue has made sense since Driver’s License.

Drew: Have you considered?

Riese: I know that’s what they peaked. And then from there it’s been-

Drew: Have you considered?

Riese: … An in house band?

Drew: It is. Yes. It’s like a Greek chorus of sorts.

Analyssa: It literally is.

Drew: And that it’s a choice. It’s an artistic choice.

Analyssa: Okay. That’s fine. I disagree with it.

Drew: I would like to say that. Yes, I do not like the artistic choice.

Analyssa: There were some really big ones in this episode. So Micah is going to go on a date with this hot doctor and the song says “you the man” over and over. There’s one later that also, I was just like…

Riese: Yes, there’s one during a sex scene that I was like, I can’t believe this is happening.

Drew: I keep searching the songs and a lot of them don’t come up on Shazam so…

Analyssa: I genuinely think we’re in a situation like we were in the original L Word

Riese: I think they have in house-

Analyssa: With who? Who was it?

Drew: Fucking, fucking…

Riese: EZ Girl.

Analyssa: EZ Girl. Yes.

Riese: Shane Shane Shane Shane

Analyssa: Carmen Carmen Carmen

Riese: Okay. So then we go to the legal department, I guess, which is in a stately building. Dad’s out of jail. Okay.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Riese: He’s mad at Dani for trying to do something good. He’s trying to blame on her. And she’s like, no, this is on you. Which is true. He’s the one who… She has to clean up his, whatever. And Bette is described as…

Legal: Formidable at best and destructive at worst.

Analyssa: I do like that Bette has all these fancy lawyers scared. That’s fun. I don’t like that all these fancy lawyers are worried that the thing that happened to the Sacklers is going to happen to them. That’s how you know.

Drew: What this has done. I mean, this is the Bette that I love. This is Bette….  what it’s doing is making me not care about Dani anymore and not care about Dani and Gigi, but the idea of Bette being up against Dani’s dad and these like evil lawyer people I’m like, yes, let’s see that. I like want to see her destroy them. So …

Analyssa: Again, we jump through a time loop.

Riese: And we’re back at the book party.

Analyssa: Back at the launch party.

Riese: And Alice has decided to pick the worst moment of all time for some god damn reason. Because Tom gives her a book and she signs a copy of his book and she… And he gives her a key to his hotel room.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative) .

Riese: Because he likes his beds king sized, like his candy bars. And then she’s like, oh, “I have to tell you that I hooked up with Nat.” But here’s the thing: like how — their relationship is serious enough that her hooking up with Nat would be a problem, but not serious enough that they literally haven’t spoken in over a week?

Drew: Yes. It doesn’t make any sense.

Riese: They established nothing.

Drew: If the… What has been established on screen makes it, so this is like… Tom sucks, this sucks. And it’s like, I don’t understand how…

Riese: I didn’t feel like he sucked. I just felt like this didn’t make sense. Like I was just confused.

Drew: No, because it’s like masculine bullshit of being like controlling before you have any right to even be controlling.

Riese: I didn’t see it like that at all.

Analyssa: I didn’t think that. I thought Alice-

Drew: Really?

Analyssa: … I thought Alice thought she did something wrong.

Riese: Yes. I thought so too.

Analyssa: Very much.

Drew: But she didn’t.

Riese: But she thinks she did.

Drew: Right. To us.

Analyssa: No, we’ve seen them have sex one time, but I just… in the world of the show she seems …

Drew: Okay. So I took the side of: Alice knows that this guy might have an issue and he does have an issue. And so then she’s very apologetic, but that…

Analyssa: I thought that—

Riese: No.

Analyssa: … she was genuinely like, “I’ve done a bad thing.”

Drew: No. It reminded me of… There’s like a whole storyline in Ted Lasso where they just start hooking up and then the character hooks up with her ex and then the whole point of that episode is like, he has to get over his shit and realized that they had nothing established and like whatever… I was like… I was thinking about that and I was like, why does Ted Lasso have better gender politics than The L Word?

Analyssa: That might stand but I don’t think in this storyline, that’s what was happening. Like I think she felt…

Riese: Yes, she felt like she did something bad.

Analyssa: She did something wrong.

Drew: But she didn’t!

Riese: Right. But in the world of the show for… I mean, we don’t know why, but for some reason it is.

Analyssa: Like if I said to you, Drew, a girl I’ve been dating for two weeks, now I’ve hooked up with my ex, I feel really bad. You’d be like, “you didn’t do anything wrong-”

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: … But if that, if I feel like I did something bad and that girl feels like I did something bad, then something bad has happened.

Drew: You’re both wrong. I don’t agree.

Analyssa: Anyway, she does it right before he has to introduce her.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: And he’s like pretty upset. He is struggling to-

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: … Adjust to his new reality.

Tom: I think we all know who Alice is or at least who she wants us to think she is. She’s honest. She’s caring. Wickedly funny. She’s caring, wickedly funny, but there’s another side to Alice. A side, that’s emotional and empathetic. I mean, she can’t watch an episode of Dr. Pimple Popper without crying and who can blame her?

Riese: I just thought this was stupid.

Drew: Yeah. So stupid

Riese: It didn’t make sense.

Analyssa: He gets really close to giving a not nice… Like every line they’re like, is he going to go off? And he doesn’t.

Riese: He doesn’t. I think he’s a standup guy.

Analyssa: I do too.

Drew: Yeah, I think so. It’s just very poorly written.

Riese: Yeah. And I really didn’t understand why they wrote it like that either. Like, why not have… It was sort of like the thing with like, make the Finley-Sophie thing a little bit more clear. It would have taken two lines!

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: To make it a genuine conflict. Or Alice to be like, yeah, we’ve been talking every night, but I’ve left this out of the story. Or like, we haven’t talked all week. So it shouldn’t be a big deal.

Analyssa: Or Alice saying to Tom, like I know we haven’t had this conversation, but I’ve been feeling really guilty. Can we discuss?

Riese: Yeah but instead she presents it like she cheated on him.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And then he rolls with it.

Analyssa: And he reacts in the way that she presents it, which I agree Drew, is out-sized but he reacts in the way that she presents it, which is again, not really how you would do that. You’d be like, it’s really early with this and I’m coming off this other thing. And she sort of says “it’s complicated,” but it falls sort of-

Drew: No, Alice definitely does not frame it correctly.

Analyssa: Right. But then she reads part of the Dana chapter. He gives her a brisk handshake.

Drew: The only thing is that like, in the middle of all this happening, like Finley gets cocktails for herself and Sophie.

Analyssa: Right. Oh, and Tess can’t come to the event because she’s in Vegas. That will be important later, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. So Alice reads from the Dana chapter.

Riese: After it, when they were like, “you painted Dana so perfectly!” — she didn’t say anything about Dana.

Drew: She didn’t say anything about Dana.

Analyssa: Not one thing about Dana’s personality in that reading!

Riese: She didn’t say anything about their story together. She went straight from engagement party, love confession, to deathbed. Literally to deathbed. I mean it’s a show but.

Drew: I did get emotional, but this is a terrible personal essay.

Riese: Yeah, I cried but I hated myself.

Analyssa: Against my will. Every tear I’ve shed in this show has been against my will.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: “You really capture her spirit.”

Riese: No you didn’t! You said nothing about her! Besides that her favorite song was “You Are My Sunshine.” Cause also no, it wasn’t.

Analyssa: That’s not exactly true. But what this chapter serves to do, as many things in this show serve to do is get three people to realize they all need to go talk to the person they’re actually in love with. So Shane is like, I have to go talk to Tess don’t I? And everyone’s like, duh. And then Bette’s like, I have to go call Pippa for the 1000 time. And I was like, maybe don’t. And then Alice was like, I got to go find Tom.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: And in a confounding turn of events, Finley — who very recently brought two drinks for her and Sophie to drink that they sat next to each other, drinking — Sophie asks

Sophie: Are you drinking?

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. Like who wrote this? Like…. what?

Drew: Melody —

Analyssa: Yeah, it doesn’t… It confounds-

Riese: I was like, was that supposed to be water?

Analyssa: But also it’s just a thing of like, nobody’s actually talking about the thing that happened really. And again, Riese you’re right, that’s really hard. But like maybe they would have had a conversation in the car before they came of like, Hey, are you good? Maybe we should both not drink tonight. We had a rough time.

Riese: Yeah. Because it seems like Sophie’s decided not to drink for awhile. And it seems like Finley would really benefit from doing that as well.

Drew: Do you know what would’ve been so easy? Is that if Finley, I’d like to know, after Alice is done speaking, Finley says “that was sad.”

Riese: You know what else is sad?

Drew: Do you know what she could have said is “that was sad, I need a drink.” And then Sophie could have said, “Hey, what if we don’t drink tonight?” And then Finley could be like, no.

Analyssa: Or some conversation about that.

Riese: And then also that’s another way. Cause there’s obviously a distinction between Sophie’s drinking and Finley’s drinking. And like, Sophie’s like a binge drinker, which is its own thing. But I don’t know what to say. They’re not doing a good job. Like there’s ways that they could show it. And I think that kind of thing would be perfect. Like her being like, this is sad, I need a drink. That would be a good way to start a conversation. And also to find out how Sophie feels about her drinking. How Finley— like, Finley’s last relationship ended because of her drinking!

Analyssa: Right. And again, there’s stuff in here that I do think actually is realistic, but all of the entry points into the conversation are not. And so then the things they’re saying-

Riese: And it so easily could have been.

Analyssa: Yes, exactly. And so the things they’re saying don’t seem like they make sense. And honestly, if I were Finley, and Sophie said the things that Sophie says to me in this episode, I’d be like, what the fuck are you talking about dude? And vice versa. Like if I were Sophie and I was with someone like Finley, you’d be like, Hey, a lot of stuff is going on. Are we good? They both don’t talk in the way that you feel like a normal human person would talk. And again, that’s totally down to a script level and what the ideas are. It’s not about really even the characters anymore. It’s like, none of this makes sense to me, I feel lost.

Riese: Rosanny is trying her hardest to tell a story with just her face and no lines.

Analyssa: I was going to say, the eyeball acting? She’s crushing.

Drew: Yeah. I really like all the actors and I really like all the, I mean, this is how I felt about the original L Word where I’d be like, oh, I love these characters. And then sometimes people will be like, “yeah, but Alice did this thing that was really transphobic.” And I was like, oh, when I say I love these characters, I don’t take all of the episodes as canon. I love this character when I love them. But all of the characters on The L Word, in the original series, and now in this series, there’s constant stuff that’s just wildly out of character.

Riese: Yeah. Wait, how many lines do they even have with each other? Four?

Drew: It doesn’t make any sense. Okay. So Micah and Claudia are like, Micah is cooking dinner, and they’re flirting. And they bond over work stuff. We learned that Micah’s a Virgo, which is a fun little thing.

Analyssa: Surprising, but okay. We’ve learned It.

Drew: Yeah. And so then the fire alarm starts going off.

Riese: Why didn’t they just take it apart?!

Analyssa: Why didn’t they open the door or the window? There’s a massive door next to me.

Drew: Yes, it makes no sense. It makes zero sense. But one thing that I want to say is that I absolutely loved the tea for tea energy of the woman being the one who like, “I’m taller, I can reach it.” Like I loved that detail, but I was like open the door.

Analyssa: I thought that detail was fun. There’s a door right there.

Riese: I was like, as I did to my smoke alarm. Remove it from the wall.

Drew: That’s a felony, so.

Analyssa: It’s dangerous.

Riese: A felony?

Analyssa: You could burn to death!

Drew: I think it says on it it’s a felony. Or maybe it’s, I don’t know if it’s a felony, but I don’t know if you should say that publicly.

Analyssa: I don’t think it’s a felony. Isn’t smoking on an airplane a felony?

Drew: I don’t know. I don’t.

Analyssa: Okay.

Drew: So, but then they don’t kiss. That’s the part of this that I did not understand. I was like, kiss! Why aren’t you kissing yet? Your faces are so close to each other.

Analyssa: They did the Shane and Tess special, which is stand really close and breathe each other’s air, but not, kiss. Okay. So then back at the CAC, Bette is negotiating with the guy in charge. She’s come to be like, you guys called my bluff and I thought you were going to counter offer me.

Riese: And it does feel like maybe this is the culmination of a lot of the stuff that’s been happening with her this whole season. Where she’s like:

Bette: I made a mistake. That is something you will rarely hear me say, but Pippa Pascal. Her work means everything to me. Do you understand? Everything?
Speaker 2: What would you do if you were in my position?
Bette: I would throw me under the bus. I’m perfectly prepared to be publicly humiliated, but don’t punish her and don’t punish the people who need to see her work.

Analyssa: And Pippa is there.

Riese: Pippa is creeping.

Analyssa: And can hear her and hears Bette say like genuinely very nice and meaningful things about what she’ll do for Pippa. Like she says that Pippa’s work means everything and she’ll do anything if the CAC will forgive her for this.

Drew: Yeah. This definitely was the moment that was like, oh, okay. I think I see what they’re going for. And I’m excited hopefully for this to be where it’s going.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: And again, my trust in writers isn’t super strong, but this scene was good.

Riese: Yeah. And this is also when she says she realizes that her legacy is one of revenge and stuff. That was good.

Drew: That was really good.

Riese: And then her and Pippa hugged and it’s nice. And she kind of like folds into Pippa, which is not her style. And I thought that was really nice too.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s nice to see her finally get the opportunity to say that. And like that that’s what has been happening. To see that feels cathartic in a good way. And I like that it’s with Pippa. Again, we’ve talked about how Bette has not been able to date in a long-term way another Black woman. Or like the way she talks about what Pippa’s art means to her because she hasn’t done that in her own life. And that this might be like a good, solid step for both of them is very… I just thought it was really nice. But I do want to say all of their dialogue, very abstracted. I wish they were speaking in like real concrete details about feelings, but instead they’re sort of-

Riese: It’s very broad.

Analyssa: I mean, they’re artists, I guess. Speaking of reconciliations, you can tell that we didn’t adore this episode because that’s the first, speaking of, all episode.

Riese: Oh my God you’re right! Speaking of communication, two women are about to try it.

Analyssa: They’re going to try. Dani has come to Gigi’s with Chinese food to sort of make up for the morning. And they bond about their dads and how they got in the way of former relationships. And I had just one aside about this is “my dad always wanted what was best for me” is a weird way to say “Dani’s dad was really classist about Sophie.” Okay. But I did like the line, again as a person of demanding job experience, Dani’s line that was like, I was really embarrassed that you saw how he treats me, or something like that? Which is, I think often with my very long hours and stuff, I don’t mind doing the demanding work myself. I can keep it going. It’s when a loved one is like, wait, let’s go. And you have to see that I’m submissive to this thing. That is when it starts to become stressful. And that’s why then the reaction of but babe, what if you just put boundaries in place?, is more off putting to me. Cause it feels humiliating.

Drew: So we learned that Bette backed off, so Dani’s like I won. Which again, I thought the whole thing was that Dani had, her morals had changed and she’d left her dad behind. I’m just, I’m like what?

Riese: I mean, she’s has to run the company. Right?

Drew: I mean no. No, she actually doesn’t. Yes she is officially the CEO because she signed that document. No sense. But she does not have to run the company well. She does not have to do things that are morally objectionable.

Riese: You think Dani’s going to lead the class revolution?

Drew: No! But there’s a difference between leading the class revolution and being like, oh, I defeated Bette Porter and all these black artists.

Analyssa: Yeah. What I was going to say is that I didn’t love that it again, pinned in Bette as the adversary in this episode as though Bette’s point was not a good one.

Drew: I mean, who knows what the next episode will do and maybe Dani will like, they’ll have a… Cause she’s like, I’m going to give Bette a few days to cool off. And it’s like, I really hope that that is words coming out of Dani’s mouth. But the show knows that that’s not what’s going to happen. And in the future episode, actually what will happen is Dani realizes that she’s wrong.

Riese: They hint at it at the end. What’s going to happen. I think. Don’t they?

Drew: Yes they do. But I mean, they don’t hint at whether Dani is like… Is Dani going to be on team Bette and Pippa? Or with her dad? Okay. So, but then when Gigi was like, I sure do like you, I was like, oh my God, I love that so much. I wish that was in any other episode or any other, whatever. Speaking of, I’m just going to read my notes for the scene, but not the last one, because it’s actually a thing to get into. But my notes in the beginning are Micah and Claudia! Ugh, dude. No. Ugh. Why?! And so basically what happens is Micah and Claudia kiss and then Micah’s like, Oh my God, I can’t do this because I’m in love with someone else.

Riese: What is wrong with you?

Analyssa: Why would you say it to someone?

Riese: Did he have carbon monoxide poisoning? Why is he saying this?

Drew: Like, I didn’t, I just, yeah.

Analyssa: All the steak fumes have gone to his head.

Riese: Someone who he works with-

Analyssa: Who he has to see so soon.

Drew: I don’t even.

Riese: Tomorrow morning he has to see her.

Drew: Okay, this is the thing that really bothers me. So Micah wasn’t in the last episode and this could have been a two episode storyline. Actually this could have been a several episode storyline because if you needed drama at the night where like the drama was that Maribel was like, you’re talking to someone. If instead it was that Micah… There’s just could have been a whole-

Riese: He could’ve been talking to her.

Drew: Yeah! It could have been a whole three episode arc with Isis King and this lovely flirtation these two have. They could have had sex. And I just think it all could have been… Instead because they want Micah on the poster and want to be able to say that one of their leads is a trans guy, but they don’t actually want to put them in every episode. We get this very rushed, very confusing, I don’t know. They had so much chemistry. Why would this not go on for several episodes? And like we know where I stand as far as the Micah shipping goes. We know where I stand. But, why couldn’t this fling or whatever have been something that was actually substantial. And actually given these two actors more time to do this.

Riese: And Micah’s kind.

Analyssa: And like fine instead of… So many times on this podcast I’ve been like, this feels mean. It feels unnecessary to kiss someone and then to their face be like, I can’t kiss you because I have feelings for someone else. Like it’s just not.

Riese: Yeah. And I think what’s interesting also is, I noticed this a lot in when I’m writing and talking about TV and stuff, when we’re shifting from talking about, why would the character do this to, why did the writers do this? Which I feel like happens on the show. Cause it’s not like I’m like, why would Micah do this? Cause he wouldn’t.

Drew: Right, exactly.

Riese: So I’m just like, why was it written this way?

Drew: I feel about so many of the things in this episode.

Analyssa: So many storylines.

Riese: Right. And honestly this show, for all of its faults, has inspired that in me so much less than the original series. But this episode is just such a disaster and it has such good sex scenes in it.

Analyssa: It really has good sex scenes in it.

Riese: Like what the fuck!

Drew: So then we go back to Alice and Tom’s storyline, which is another one where I’m like, I think Tom’s a great guy. I’ve loved his character. None of this has felt realistic to his character because I feel like what would have been more accurate is he would have been like, okay, so you want to be with that? And Alice would have to be like, no, I really do want to be with you. And prove that instead of him getting upset and we’re like, oh no, is he going to say something bad in the speech? No, of course he wasn’t ever going to say anything. It’s not his character. Anyways. Alice walks in on him as he’s taking tiny shampoos and toiletries and stuff from a hotel, which is the move always.

Analyssa: One quick reminder that Tom is not a rich LA lesbian. Someone in the comments, I think of the last post or maybe your recap, were like, I wish that there was episodes where Carrie and Tom got to bond about not being LA. Like being the weirdos on the outside of this group. And I just feel like that would be very fun for both of them.

Riese: I agree. I think that’d be really nice. You need to have a buddy when you’re the outsider. You need to have a buddy.

Analyssa: Yeah, Tom is close to having Finley as a buddy. But now they’ve spun Finley off in a whole different direction.

Drew: So Alice apologizes and they work it out and it’s nice. I’m glad they’re back together because that’s what I wanted.

Riese: And now they’re official.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Speaking of people who are going to become official.

Analyssa: I mean the next handful of scenes is really just people getting official back-to-back-to-back.

Drew: So Maribel comes over and Micah’s like:

Micah: I’ve watched Love & Basketball six times since I last saw you. And I think we’re as good as them.
Maribel: No, we’re not. Nobody is.

Drew: And then-

Analyssa: This was wild.

Drew: He takes-

Riese: Are these quotes from Love & Basketball?

Drew: Okay. Eventually. But first he says:

Micah: Maribel, I love you. And I know you love me too.
Maribel: Would you bet on it?
Micah: I would bet my whole heart.

Analyssa: Wild.

Riese: I thought That was a quote from Love & Basketball.

Drew: I’m sure in Love & Basketball. They say, I love you. The part that is a quote is that when… There’s a scene in Love & Basketball, if you haven’t seen Love & Basketball you really should see Love & Basketball, they’re playing one-on-one and it’s like a bet for her heart.

Speaker 1: I’ll play you.
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: One game, one-on-one.
Speaker 2: For what?
Speaker 1: Your heart.

Drew: That is a reference. But, the I love you? It’s just him saying, I love you. He’s like, I love you, I know you love me too? Okay.

Riese: That wasn’t a quote?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: That is Micah.

Riese: That’s bananas!

Drew: I don’t think it’s a quote. But it’d be bananas even if it was a quote! I really don’t think it’s a quote.

Riese: I feel like, what?! But you’re right, even if it is a quote, it’s still wild. It’s a pretty common phrase. I love you. How forward. Like Micah-

Analyssa: My notes say, I love you? Skipped some steps there, my guy.

Riese: My notes say, they love each other?

Analyssa: As a person of watching Grey’s Anatomy experienced, those bitches say, I’m in love with you because I love you because I’m in love with you, to people they’ve never even gone on a date with.

Riese: This show does that too.

Analyssa: They do that shit all the time. So I felt like I was primed for that. And I was just like, this is bananas.

Drew: I do it in the privacy of my own brain. But let’s keep it where it belongs.

Riese: Why do they have to always be doing like, are you in love with her? Like Tasha and Alice and Jamie when they were having their talk in the final episode. And she was like, are you in love with Tasha? Or like, are you in love with Jamie? And I was like, how could they be?

Analyssa: I mean, even-

Riese: They’re not dating yet!

Analyssa: Even Shane and Tess. This episode, Alice is like, Shane has loved Tess since the moment she laid eyes on her.

Riese: Yeah I was like, what?

Analyssa: Has she?

Drew: My issue is not that it’s about saying I love you too soon. My issue is that they hooked up. They were friends, they hooked up, then they got into a fight. They didn’t talk. I missed the week where they were not speaking. Then they got into a fight and they haven’t talked for another week or some period of time. So that’s more like where I’m confused. If it was, oh, they spent, whatever it was. It doesn’t matter. Whatever. I’m happy they’re together and that’s lovely. And now they’re together and whatever. Okay. So then going to people who are in love Tess is on the phone in Vegas.

Riese: She’s on the phone with her sponsor. And just really quickly, I want to say, that for all the not great alcoholic representation in this show. This reluctant-ass call to her sponsor? I was like, yes, thank you so much. She’s like kind of perfunctorily like, yes, I’m doing this. Yes, I went to a meeting. And then I called my sponsees. I was like, I know that phone call, I’ve been on that phone call, I will be on that phone call probably this week. Like baby. Thank you. That was great.

Analyssa: Yeah. Another great thing I think was we really saw Vegas.

Drew: We sure did through that window. We were like, we are in Vegas.

Riese: It’s Vegas.

Analyssa: And you know what? When they start smooching, there’s words about lights in the song, which are behind them in Vegas.

Drew: Shane arrives. Also, I want to note for people who are like, oh, Tess’ mom lives in Vegas? Because I think a lot of people are always like, oh wow, when they live in Vegas, they live on the strip. Most of the time, that is not true. Plenty of people live in Vegas and don’t live on the strip. But I guess Tess’ mom does live on the strip.

Riese: No Tess’ mom is in a home. So she was just saying in a hotel.

Drew: Why would she say on the strip?

Riese: Because it’s cheap.

Drew: So, Shane arrives at the hotel and she tells Tess that she wants to be her partner.

Riese: And she’s like, I want to be here with you. She’s like looking at her feet. I want to be your partner.

Analyssa: And that’s really scary for me to say.

Riese: She hates having feelings.

Drew: That’s really nice. What we’ve learned from this episode of television is that trans women can find love as long as you’re stealth. And that’s really nice. I mean, I do appreciate that we got two T4T storylines here with Micah and Claudia.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: And now Tess and trans woman Shane.

Analyssa: Yeah. They have sex.

Drew: They do.

Riese: They do.

Drew: It’s extremely hot.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: This is an untainted sex scene. This is really the only one. What other sex scenes happened in this episode?

Riese: Aren’t Pippa and Bette? They wake up together with their bras on.

Drew: That’s not a sex scene.

Riese: We will get to that.

Drew: We’ll get there.

Riese: Everyone takes their clothes off here.

Drew: Anyways, this is very good. Like when Shane was kissing down her back. I really thought that she was about to eat her ass! And then I was disappointed it stopped. I was lie, go for it Shane! Nope? Okay.

Riese: Yeah I did too. But wasn’t,

Analyssa: I watched twice and missed the turnaround to get Tess onto all fours. And I was like, what have I? And I, I still don’t know where I missed it, but anyway, I also thought we were going to get ass eating representation.

Drew: It was good.

Riese: Wasn’t Sophie eating Finley’s ass at the beginning of last week’s? In the rug?

Analyssa: Oh, I know we you’re talking about.

Riese: She could have been fucking her from behind though.

Anaylssa: Yeah.

Drew: Unclear,

Analyssa: Unclear.

Riese: Or sucking on her toes. There’s so many things she could have been. That was like the thing they’re really into. You know, Nat loves public sex, but Finley and Sophie are really into feet.

Drew: I want everyone’s sun sign then I want everyone’s kinks. Please.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: So the only other thing I want to say about the sex scene is it was very good. I wish that I’d seen their faces being excited more.

Riese: Mm-hmm yeah.

Analyssa: Like it seemed like a really fun pay off to some things.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And I just would’ve loved to see Jamie play it at being a little light the way that she is.

Riese: I would’ve liked that too, because what I try to make a screenshot for my recap. It’s incredibly difficult.

Analyssa: You’re just getting hair and limbs basically.

Riese: For a lot of the sex, it’s nearly impossible. Cause either they’re in motion.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Or you can’t see a face.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And so then I’m taking a screenshot of bodies. Then I feel like I’m disembodying women. You know?

Analyssa: And that’s what makes Sophie and Finley’s sex scenes so fun. It’s because they’re having fun and they feel, realistic in the way that sometimes sex is very hot, but also sometimes you bump heads and you laugh about it.

Drew: Yeah. Yes.

Analyssa: And then it’s back to being really hot. Yes. And then,

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: And I feel like I missed some of that in these.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: In the sex scenes, this episode.

Riese: Shane always has serious sex. I feel.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s true.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: She takes it very seriously. That’s why she does it so frequently.

Riese: Okay, Finley comes home wasted.

Analyssa: And crawls into bed with Sophie and tries to do a drunk cuddling thing. And Sophie doesn’t want to do it.

Riese: She says that she feels like she’s been babysitting her all day.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: There is a line here where she’s talking about when Finley is like completely trashed and she’s like,

Sophie: It’s like your light goes out and nobody’s home and it’s the scariest, loneliest feeling.

Riese: And I was like, that’s good. That’s a good line.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree that’s a good line. This felt like it came out of nowhere. I think, I think you said something earlier that I thought was I would bring up later. But which I’m bringing up now. It does feel like it’s a crystallization of some thoughts that maybe Sophie has had before.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But it feels really like zero to a hundred in the intensity of it. Which I was surprised by. Because I, again, I think Drew said this a lot of their relationship has been fun partying. We, that’s our vibe.

Riese: They were both were drinking a lot.

Drew: Which like, because Sophie’s gone through a lot recently.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: For sure.

Drew: And so it could easily have been played in a way where it’s like. And by played, I mean written because Rosanny Zayas is doing whatever she can with this writing. It could have been written in a way that was clear about the fact that, yes, Sophie and Finley’s relationship has been largely based ongoing out and being drunk. This experience was a wakeup call for Sophie. And she’s confused by it. But not a wakeup call for Finley and that’s starting to scare her.

Riese: Right.

Drew: And that, isn’t how it’s written.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: It just written as this like zero to 60. And, and then what it does is undercut Sophie’s stance in this.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Which shouldn’t be undercut.

Riese: Well, it’s also relying on us, I guess, to fill in a lot of the gaps. Cause all, I mean this whole fucking season. In Sophie’s karaoke episode, we were all having a fun time, so I wasn’t going to talk about it. But like when she walks into the back room to find Finley. Finley’s back there chugging a beer — like there’s all of these moments where she sees Finley has a certain relationship to alcohol that’s unhealthy and no one ever says anything.

Analyssa: That, and that’s what I mean is like, it doesn’t feel like a gentle: Hey, that was like a pretty rough night. Or what if we talk? It’s just. And again,Sophie, as a character has gone through a lot of stuff, so it’s like a pile on. But yeah, it just feels like there were so many other again entry points to this conversation.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Where I would be totally on Sophie’s side and be like, yes, this is the right way of handling it. And instead I was like, I just feel like this is going to put Finley off and she’s going to be like, you’re insane. What are you talking about? Which is sort of what happened?

Drew: She could have, she, this could have been the way that this scene happened. If throughout the season there were little things building up to this moment.

Riese: Finley came home and said I’ve been sober all summer and then started drinking and everyone was like, LaDeDaDeDa . No-one was like, do you want to talk about that?

Drew: And with the drunk driving moment. If and when they were getting into the car. Sophie had been like, are you sure you’re okay? Instead, Finley chugged from a flask before they got in the car. So instead of having to treat the audience like were stupid. And that we need to see Finley chugging from a flask to know that Finley, who we clearly have seen as an alcoholic, is gonna be drunk while getting into this car. If instead she was like yeah, I haven’t had a drink since the one, an hour ago. Or whatever. And then Sophie would be like, okay, and then when they get pulled over, like Sophie looks, doesn’t like giggling and Finley looks serious.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: But swap that.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: And then, or have them both look serious. Like what it is that it just there’s no buildup to it. So then it makes you feel like, oh, well this feels out of nowhere or this feels harsh. And it’s like, no, that’s not narratively and character wise. That’s not how this should feel.

Analyssa: Right. Exactly.

Riese: And it’s also they don’t even address what just happened. Which is Sophie wanted to go home and Finley didn’t go home with her because she needed to keep drinking.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: They don’t even address that.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Like what,

Analyssa: Or even again, you just had this insane thing happen. You couldn’t take one night off.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Totally reasonable.

Riese: Like yeah.

Analyssa: Still a little bit harsh thing to hear, but like totally reasonable entry point to, this conversation.

Drew: It’s just, it’s just such a poorly written scene.

Riese: Yeah. And that line saying you know, we just had this happen. Like, do you think you could take the night off and then having Finley be like yeah, sure. And then coming home drunk? Like that would’ve been a very easy edit and it would’ve really crystallized this situation.

Analyssa: And then coming home drunk, sure.

Drew: Right.

Riese: It’s so frustrating. Cause It’s the worst writing of the series.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Because also there’s been all this buildup towards it and, there’s stills from the next episode where you see Sophie sitting with Tess looking serious.

Analyssa: So I think she’s probably going to talk to her about talking to Finley, which I just, I think watching what we’ve watched all season where it doesn’t seem like people have been super concerned with Finley’s drinking or behavior. And then to go from that. Skip the entire step of concern and have Sophie, who again has always been really supportive and loving and like jump to, I felt like I was babysitting you. You can’t like, it just felt very punitive in a way that was surprising to me because I think the Sophie that I know who sat next to her grandma’s bed, for two episodes is would’ve been like, I’m really worried about you. You just had this big thing happen and it doesn’t seem to have affected you at all. And it’s really scary to me. And the other thing that’s really scary is sometimes your light goes out behind your eyes when we’re out together. And I don’t even know when that’s going to happen and that’s really terrifying. That’s a conversation. Anyways, so, Finley leaves.

Riese: Yeah. Finley fucking leaves.

Analyssa: And is walking around wasted in Los Angeles.

Riese: The only authentic thing about this conversation was that Sophie said, I don’t want to talk about this right now. And then they immediately talked about it. That’s authentic lesbian processing. That’s exactly how that happens. But, and even that like Finley left. Where?

Analyssa: Walking.

Riese: Where she decided to go could have been an interesting detail. You know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So she’s walking. And then.

Riese: She’s going to fall asleep on a bench for sure.

Analyssa: And then it’s the next day, right? Or everyone’s in bed basically. I don’t know if everyone’s waking up yet or falling asleep now, but.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Finley’s probably asleep on the bench.

Drew: Yeah, we go to Pippa and Bette naked in bed.

Analyssa: Bras, in bras please. Well, okay.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: As you do, yes, please. I wake up and I immediately put my brassiere on.

Drew: It’s interesting that they don’t just like have them in like some sort of you know, sheets. I mean, this is, I feel about TV in general. Not even sheets.

Analyssa: They might have them in sheets. They might not really be in bras. My memory might be wrong.

Riese: I thought it was bras.

Drew: No, there were, it was. Yeah.

Analyssa: You mean like a pajama top?

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. Of some sort.

Analyssa: Even just like a tank top or a little Teddy.

Riese: She’s like I got the bag.

Drew: Yeah. But Pippa asks Bette if she’s considered that, sometimes you can burn down and still leave standing. Right. And it’s, I mean, I’m excited to see where that goes.

Riese: Oh yeah. Because they’re going to burn down Wax.

Analyssa: They say that they’re going to do it together again. Yeah. I love this for them.

Riese: Yeah. I love it. When people over 50 burn shit down.

Analyssa: Very metaphorical conversation. But okay. Again, I guess I prefer that to some of the other conversations that have been had in this episode. Yeah.

Drew: I’m just, again, interested to see if this is framed as like Bette versus Dani or if it’s going to be framed with like the seriousness and heaviness that it deserves

Analyssa: Feels like it’s going towards like feud instead of actual.

Drew: Where it’s like, but I’m thrilled to see like Bette back into like burnt down politics mode, but with like maybe more tact and Pippa, like being on like there with her I’m on board for that storyline. If it means having to like go back to season one, hating Dani, I guess I’ll do that.

Analyssa: A storyline that I’m in on is Tess and Shane are in bed and they’re sweet. And these two are the only, what I wrote is these two are the only people I understand. These are my moms, this is my home.

Drew: So, it’s possible.

Analyssa: Pippa and Bette end up in a place where I understand them. Shane and Tess were my rock this whole episode.

Drew: Yeah. I’m going, I don’t know if I’ve just like, am in a bad mood because of the rest of this episode. But I do have one note on this scene mm-hmm which is that Shane asks if it’s going to be a problem at work and Tess is like yeah, we should tell HR. And Shane says that she is HR and they kiss and it’s all jokey you know, like I think it’s fine morally that Tess and Shane are hooking up, but like be L Word’s relationship towards people fucking their coworkers and how it, and I think it’s pro.

Analyssa: I think it’s pro. And also like, not just coworkers, but people who work under you technically it’s very, pro.

Riese: And then they work under you.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: The like the like’s a little dicey.

Drew: I would just, I’m just wanting to like, it is a soap opera it’s going to happen. I’d rather they not address it than address it and be like, haha. And we don’t care about this. I just you know, don’t learn about life from the L word is a pretty good lesson, always, but I’m just going to reiterate that one more time with this in particular. But yes, they’re very hot and cute together. I love it. Happy to see it. ETC, ETC

Analyssa: Not happy to see Finley never came home last night and there’s an egregious music cue. That’s like did I step too far? Did I push us too hard? And Sophie’s walking around like looking for Finley it’s 10:30 in the morning. So she’s been gone for hours at this point.

Drew: Okay. So that’s how it ends with Finley missing.

Riese: I thought they were going to at least show us Finley somewhere like on maybe Tess’ porch or something. Yeah. You know?

Analyssa: Or Shane’s porch. She used to live there. She could find her way there.

Riese: Yeah. Well I think they lost that set because have you noticed we have not been in Shane’s apartment at all? I think they lost that set.

Drew: And that’s the episode.

[music transition]

Drew: Did we like it? I hated it. It’s like one of my least favorite episodes of The L word in both series. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, that one was rough.

Riese: That was really rough. And could have so easily been so much better. I honestly feel like something happened that week that they were writing this. It’s like inexcusably bad. There’s all of these opportunities where very easily things could have been made just a little bit more sense and they just didn’t do it.

Drew: It’s honestly just like, it’s like pretty disrespectful to the cast and like, and to the characters and to like what’s been built, like I just like it’s, it’s just, there’s all the elements are there and it’s so frustrating. Yeah, maybe next week will be better. I mean it has to be right.

Riese: I feel like it’s not going to be.

Analyssa: I’m hopeful, but nervous.

Drew: I at least feel more optimistic that Bette and Pippa are going to actually be together and we’re going to get to like explore that in a way that’s exciting rather than Bette getting back with Tina. Cause Allen, when Carrie last episode was like, I don’t think I could be with Tina. I was like, no fucking way are they going to get Bette and Tina back together?

Riese: I feel like they’re going to do a last a cliffhanger.

Analyssa: I do think so too.

Drew: I know. I, I will be. So if that’s where like, I don’t know, I just, oh

Riese: God, I just hope Carrie doesn’t leave Tina at the altar. They love to do that on this show.

Analyssa: So many of that in each iteration of the um.

Drew: I’m so tired. I’m like a few episodes ago. Remember how happy I was. Yeah know I’m that was two episodes ago.

Riese: Remember how I like, wanted Finley and Sophie to get together. And it was like, no, we have to wait till the end. I wish that we had waited to the end because I feel like it’s going to fall apart.

Drew: I don’t even. I just, do I like any of the characters anymore?

Riese: I would love to see their relationship progress as Finley comes to grip with this, Sophie comes to grip with whatever she, she has going on, like all that stuff. And I feel like we’re not going to

Analyssa: Which doesn’t feel again fair to the characters or to the actors who like can carry that storyline. Like it would be different if it was a cast that I didn’t trust to pull off that sort of nuance or complicated story. I think they could all do it let them try.

Riese: But again, like Emmy for Rosanny, she spoke so many words with her face.

Analyssa: Really did it.

Riese: She really gave it her all and whatever happened in the writer’s room that week. I’m so sorry for everyone’s loss. Which was our loss. And that is my L word loss.

Analyssa: Mine was going to be lousy.

Drew: I don’t, doesn’t Lauren need us to pause in between us doing our L words

Riese: This week will be different.

Drew: I, oh you, you guys said L words lousy and mine is I’m going to get there. My L word is lead, because instead of watching this episode, I wish I had guzzled a gallon of lead paint.

Analyssa: I thought you were going to say like misled or you know, they led me astray.

Drew: Nope.

Riese: My follow up L word is lactose intolerant. Because that’s how this episode made me feel. And you guys realize I still have probably 12, 13 hours ahead of me recapping this motherfucking episode. So that’s really brutal.

Drew: That’s really brutal. It’s incredibly brutal. I’m very sorry.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of, To L and Back generation Q one of two podcasts brought to you by autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and twitter @tolandback and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget. We also have a hotline. Yes, it still exists. Give us a call, leave us a message. Or just give us a piece of your mind. You can reach us at 9 7 1 2 1 7 6 1 3 0. We also have merch! Head over to store at autostraddle.com. There are Bette Porter for president t-shirts. There are To L and Back stickers and lots of other simply iconic autostraddle.com merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented be said, well, our brand new to L and back generation Q logo is by the incredible Jackie Cho. Jackie is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work. I’ve linked her website in socials in the show notes. And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo because I think those would look pretty sick. This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me. Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein and on Twitter @LTKlein. You can follow drew everywhere @drawGregory that’s drew in the present tense. You can follow Annalisa on Instagram @Analokaa with two A’s and on Twitter @Analoka_ with one a in an underscore, you can follow our in-house L word savant and living legend Reise Bernard everywhere @autowin auto straddle is @autostraddle. And of course the reason why we are all here, autostraddle.com.

Exit Music: Laughing, moving fisting, fighting, crying, drinking, squirting, judging, ranting, camping, riding thinking. This is the way it’s the way, the way and okay.

“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 207: Light

It’s another beautiful week in Los Angeles and you know what that means! Another big poker game, because that’s what lesbians do for fun here! This particular game is a fundraiser for MS that Tess and Shane seem to have organized in one calendar day, but logistics like that won’t stop this from being the new social event of the season. Until, of course, next week when it will be replaced by the launch party for Alice’s book.

But for now, we’ve got Alice and Nat hooking up (again) then breaking up (again), Sophie and Finley having sex on set (again), and Bette being mean to Carrie (again, but worse this time!). Honestly, a lot of events transpire in this episode that we didn’t love, including drunk driving! But in more wholesome news, Jordi asks Angie to prom while dancing in a fountain and SO MANY people kiss in the rain that we have to consider whether they WANT their hair to get frizzy.

SHOW NOTES

  • Riese’s recap of the episode
  • Riese, Drew and my Letterboxd accounts where we all embark upon wild movie-watching projects
  • Riese is watching her way through all of Kristen Stewart’s filmography, which includes Into the Wild, Lizzie, and Safety of Objects
  • Go Fish is of course on the 200 Best Lesbian Movies of All Time list, at #103
  • The book with the line “you can’t get milk from the hardware store” was Milk Fed, which I found very exhausting to read but was reviewed on Autostraddle here!
  • We didn’t talk about The Flight Attendant on AS, but we did a fun roundtable about The White Lotus and Drew reviewed the second season of Feel Good when it premiered this year!

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I am Riese.

Drew: And this is:

Drew, Analyssa, and Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q edition.

Drew: We’re still together.

Riese: Yeah. We’re in the same room, so that means we say the whole thing together. And then we also say a lot of other things at the same time. And we’re sorry.

Analyssa: We’re sorry about that.

Drew: Yeah. We’re very excited to be around each other. And so if there’s a little bit of what we call in the podcasting business cross-talk. Sorry, but—

Analyssa: We’re trying not to.

Riese: I just did it.

Drew: You just did. It’s okay. It’s okay. It’s okay. I think it’s okay that we are excited to be here with each other and to talk about this show where people are constantly talking over each other.

Analyssa: So true. What if we just sat here and all just took turns and waited, that would not be fun either. So we’ll figure it out. We’re just so excited to be in each other’s presence.

Riese: And Carol’s.

Analyssa: And Carol’s most of all.

Drew: Carol is touching my thigh right now. This is Gen Q 207, “Light,” directed by Rose Troche. If you don’t know who that is, worked on the original series, directed Go Fish, a lesbian classic that I think is underrated among contemporary audiences.

Riese: Safety of Objects.

Drew: Safety of Objects.

Riese: Oh, were you looking at me as a contemporary audience who underrates Go Fish?

Drew: Oh, that wasn’t pointed. I feel like a lot of people at Autostraddle are like, “Oh, Go Fish sucks.”

Riese: Including me.

Drew: Yeah, but I like it.

Riese: I might be the root.

Drew: But that’s okay. We can’t all love everything, but Rose Troche is a legend.

Riese: Yes. She is a legend.

Drew: And it’s exciting to see her directing an episode of this.

Riese: Also, if you haven’t seen The Safety of Objects, you should, I was going to say, go see it. And I’m like, I don’t know, find the DVD?

Analyssa: Watch it online somewhere.

Riese: It’s really good. Kristen Stewart’s in it.

Analyssa: Actually. I’m so glad that you brought that up, because Riese has watched recently — I follow Riese on Letterboxd.

Drew: I’ve been observing this as well.

Analyssa: Quick plug: Follow all three of us on Letterboxd because we’re fun.

Riese: Yeah, I’m trying, I’m doing it.

Analyssa: Riese is watching all of Kristen Stewart’s movies.

Riese: In order.

Analyssa: In order, which has led to me adding a lot of random movies that Kristen Stewart, I’m sure, is in for 15 minutes to my Letterboxd watch list. But weirdly I’ve been wanting to do this. I don’t know if you follow my Letterboxd as closely as I follow yours, but you know I’m doing this director project.

Riese: I actually literally just follow you guys and Shelly, so I can keep pretty close tabs on everyone.

Analyssa: So I’m doing this director project where I watch movies from iconic directors. And I’ve been thinking that if I do another iteration of this, actresses would be a very fun one. Kristen Stewart is one that I, for gay personal reasons, would do. And so then you were doing this and I’m inspired by you and your commitment.

Riese: That’s so wonderful. I mean, some of them I’ve watched out of order, like Gretchen I watched Lizzie the other night, which I hadn’t already seen. But when I’m alone, I’m doing it in order. And I will say that I’ve watched some unfortunate films. Have you seen Into the Wild?

Drew: Yes. I have.

Analyssa: Riese hated Into the Wild. Her eyeballs are about to pop out.

Riese: Kristen Stewart’s early films, she is somehow heterosexual and they always put her in skirts that go down to here and Converse.

Analyssa: They do costume — I feel that with Elliot Page too, like—

Riese: That was a similar, that was a similar costuming strategy.

Analyssa: There’s always something going on there where you look and you’re… I was obsessed with them. Me, Analyssa, was obsessed with them as a high schooler before I knew I was queer at all. And now that makes sense to me. You didn’t tell us who wrote this episode, did you?

Drew: Yes, this episode is written by Maisha Closson, who wrote this season’s “Luck be a Lady” and has written on a bunch of television. Should we get in?

Riese: I was just thinking how much I hated Into the Wild. We open in heaven.

Drew: Sex, sex, sex!

Analyssa: We open in Riese’s favorite way to open any episode. Sophie and Finley are fucking all over the house, engaging in the time honored tradition of new relationship, we won’t leave this home. In fact, they haven’t eaten or drank water.

Riese: Yeah, which I didn’t understand, really you haven’t drank water? I have to drink water every three minutes.

Drew: Yeah. Drink water. Also you can make it, if you need to make it sexy, involve water in your sex.

Riese: Last week we spoke about ice, and now, you know — and the sort of the — the beginning of a relationship having sex all the time is elevated by the fact that they live in the same house. So there’s nothing stopping them from just going bananas.

Drew: And Finley’s unemployed.

Riese: And Finley’s — just a soccer — no Finley has two jobs?

Drew: Oh right. Sorry. Finley acts like she’s unemployed. Correction.

Analyssa: They should just put one glass of water next to the bed and be reaching over.

Riese: Or a water bottle.

Drew: At least a Mason jar full of water for the two of them.

Riese: No notes.

Analyssa: Yeah. No notes. We did it. Great. They’re doing it. They love it.

Riese: They’re having a nice time. I’m so happy they’re together. I hope that nothing goes wrong.

Drew: I’m sure nothing will.

Riese: So speaking of horny people, we go to a little brunch date starring Alice and Bette. But it’s not just Alice and Bette at the restaurant.

Drew: It’s Nat and Gigi.

Bette: Fuck, they’re both here. That is so gay.

Drew: They are also there. So first Bette says to Alice that she seems happy. And again, we’re getting that Bette Porter soft bi-phobia, but she’s being a supportive friend, so whatever. And Bette says that the things are over with Gigi and is like, “It’s fine. She’s playing head games with someone else already.” When it’s like, what head games, what? This is the episode where I turned.

Riese: Bette Porter head games. Like, what? Pot, kettle.

Analyssa: Bette “head games” Porter over here is like “Gigi’s off playing head games?” What? Again, last week when we were like, everyone in this friend group thought Jodi was so weird for just wanting to know what is going on, Bette thinks that Gigi is playing head games by going, “Do you want to talk about your feelings?”

Riese: Right. Gigi liked Bette and wanted to continue to see her. That’s not a head game.

Drew: No, it’s the opposite.

Riese: That’s just life.

Analyssa: That’s how it goes sometimes.

Drew: I mean, it might be a different kind of head game if she had played her cards better, but that’s not what she means. This season is really — it’s fascinating to spend so many years obsessed with Bette Porter, and then to just, I don’t know if it’s the season or if it’s like something in me, but I’m like, “It’s ending.” My love of Bette Porter is sort of over, I’m really finding it hard to be… this episode’s rough.

Riese: In the comments on the recap last week, one of the commentaries noted that something feels different about this season. It feels like maybe she’s punching down. And I think that might be it, because even her and Jodi were equals, whether Bette fucked — was the one who messed with Jodi, but they were equals. But the way she goes after Carrie and the way she treats Gigi, and — I mean her and Gigi are equals, but not in this relationship.

Analyssa: That is interesting. I haven’t thought about that. You know what though? Alice looks great.

Drew: Alice does look great.

Analyssa: Anyway, Bette Porter would have me believe that’s because she’s fucking Tom, I guess.

Drew: Bette takes a call and Alice goes to say hi to Nat and Nat’s hair looks amazing, worth noting.

Riese: Luscious.

Drew: It’s just wonderful. My perception of this was, “Oh, this is awkward.” But that wasn’t their perception of it because before you know it they’re fucking in Nat’s car.

Analyssa: With Alice through the sunroof.

Riese: Yeah. It’s funny.

Analyssa: Bouncing vigorously. Do we think… not to get graphic.

Drew: Let’s get graphic.

Analyssa: On a hand? It just was so vigorous, the balancing.

Riese: Yeah. I think on a hand.

Drew: I don’t know. I mean, good for her.

Riese: Do you think Nat was packing?

Drew: Maybe.

Analyssa: At brunch to talk about logistics with Gigi?

Drew: She loves public sex. You never know when you’re going to need it.

Riese: That’s true. I mean, I don’t know if they — do you think that they really thought about it?

Analyssa: No.

Drew: I don’t know because if there’s one thing I trust Gen Q on, it’s that they think through their sex scenes. So, I don’t know. But whatever it is, it depends how much you are a Talice shipper, but I don’t know. It’s fun.

Analyssa: They seem to be having fun. The physical comedy, we’ve talked about how funny Leisha Hailey is, and her popping through the sunroof is very good. Honestly, Drew and I talked through the beginning of this next scene. So what is Shane talking to Tess about?

Riese: They’ve organized overnight, as you do on television, a giant function for the MS society.

Drew: That explains so much of the later stuff that we were a little bit confused about.

Riese: It is some sort of poker thing, obviously. And Tess is so excited she’s going to cry. And then she goes to see her anonymous friends in the community center because that’s where her AA meeting is. And then Shane spots Carrie walking in and thinks—

Drew: Yeah. Got all that.

Analyssa: We sort of were debriefing the Nat and Alice thing and missed what the event focus was. I sensed that there was an event and then we saw, I’m going inside and there’s Carrie.

Drew: Yeah. Now that Annalysa and I live together, it’s a little bit more the energy of an L Word watch party, as opposed to the like, we’re scholars, pausing the episode over and over again to get every little detail, which is fun for us. But if we mess anything up, you know where to find us. Speaking of writing things down, Angie’s writing questions to ask Marcus and Jordi is being really weird and it’s not her character. And I know they’re doing a thing and we’ll get—

Riese: I mean, what’s her character?

Drew: I don’t know, her character was a supportive high school girlfriend. That was all we knew about her, was that she liked Angie and was present and cool. And then, I don’t know. I just, I’m still annoyed about this. Even though she’s not even a canonically trans character. So I’m just wanting these cute teen lesbians to be cute, which I know we’ll get there. We’ve all watched the episode. But at this point I was like, why is Jordi being so… I get teenagers are teenagers.

Riese: It’s not like we ever find out the answer to that.

Drew: No, not really. It’s sort of—

Analyssa: They tried to explain it.

Drew: But I don’t know. I don’t enjoy this, but that’s what’s happening in this scene.

Analyssa: Yeah. She also is… we don’t need to get too deep into this, but she just kind of walks out also. She’s like, “Alright, see you later.”

Drew: It’s weird.

Riese: Speaking of Porters.

Analyssa:Nice.

Riese: We go and we finally find out — which I have now looked up on the internet — that a gallery is sort of like an agent. So being represented by a gallery, it means they sell your work and they take a cut and they have access to more artists. And they can show you at their gallery, but they can also book you a show at a museum.

Drew: I see. So she was like, “If you can get me a museum show, I will sign with the evil monster.”

Riese: Yeah. And so she did with her ye old CAC.

Drew: CAC.

Analyssa: Back to the CAC.

Riese: Back to the CAC.

Drew: She says that CAC is doing a show around work about Black Lives Matter and that Pippa could be the center of it. And I just was interested because the stance the show has taken on tokenization being the worst thing that can happen to someone with a marginalized identity this season, that’s sort of been their stance. It was interesting to me that this wasn’t the time that it came up, because Pippa feels like the character — of Micah, Pippa, Bette — Pippa feels like the character who would be like, “This is tokenizing me,” like, “Yes, this is what my work is about, but I don’t want it to be…”

Riese: Well, it’s more like pigeonholing than tokenizing.

Analyssa: Yeah. “I don’t want to just be this kind of artist” or they think that because — but it seems like—

Drew: She’s just excited to have this museum show now. And I don’t know. I know we have to move the story along, but it just was interesting to me because I was like, “Oh, I feel like this character would have…” I was expecting her to have something to say about that, but maybe she, unlike Micah and Bette, realizes that talking about and representing your identity isn’t actually the worst thing in the world.

Analyssa: Well, and also Bette says later that — which I think was really interesting to hear from Bette — that Pippa explores her queerness and Blackness in ways that Bette says she has only just started to do, which I was like, “That’s actually interesting.” So I also wonder if Pippa, because Pippa, per Bette, is doing that in her art that she’s like, “That’s an okay place to show my kind of thing.” Pippa is also saying that she is sort of nervous about doing a show because the art world chewed her up and spit her out when she was younger. And she’s afraid to get sort of lost in that validation need again, and what it means about her. All the things that I think are interesting about artists. What’s more interesting is that Pippa casually revealed she has a son, which for those of you following along at home means that she does, in fact—

Riese: Check all of Bette’s boxes.

Analyssa: All of Bette’s boxes. So true.

Drew: Yes. These are Bette’s boxes now.

Analyssa: Pippa is going to do the show. She’s excited. We’re signed on, this probably means good things for them.

Riese: Yeah. And then Bette calls someone to be excited about it. And then Carrie calls her and she takes the call. Yes. Speaking of talk show hosts.

Analyssa: Oh yeah, because of Carrie.

Riese: Yeah, because Carrie’s a talk show host. You guys know what I mean. Over at The Alice Show, it’s time to watch Sophie’s segment. It’s airing right now on the video screen of the show.

Analyssa: I don’t understand how this talk show works, but whatever. Okay.

Riese: I love the idea of all these heterosexuals sitting there wanting to see this cute elderly, lesbian love story.

Analyssa: It’s like families who are on vacation to LA and have booked tickets the way that you do for The Ellen Show.

Drew: This is viral content!

Riese: They’re like, “Oh my God! We love love!”

Analyssa: They wanted to see Alice in a hamster ball. And then they see these sweet, sweet lesbians. And they’re like, “Yeah, amazing!”

Riese: “More!”

Drew: But then Finley comes in from reffing kids’ soccer to support Sophie.

Riese: She’s very excited for her.

Drew: Can I say something that’s going to bother you, Riese?

Riese: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Drew: So the ways in which Finley is annoying, I’m aware that by the end of this episode, now I really feel bad saying this, but at this point in the episode, I was like, “Finley, when she’s getting what she wants, when she’s not a sad puppy, I find her obnoxious,” where I was like, look that’s maybe my own shit to work through as far as the type that Finley is, where I just feel she just sort of stumbles through life and everything just sort of works out for her. And when things weren’t working out for her, Jacqueline Toboni is a really good actor, and I felt a lot for the character and the character’s well-written. So but then at this point I just was a little bit like, I don’t know, she was annoying me in this scene and annoying me sort of throughout this episode a little bit. But then… you know.

Riese: I thought this scene was really sweet.

Drew: Okay. And that’s great.

Analyssa: I’m somewhere between the two of you, which is to say, I thought the scene was really sweet and I love that she showed up to support Sophie. We’re in a public space and she’s changing out of her referee outfit. Weird. And then of course, for old time’s sake, because they love to fuck in this room, they start kissing and I was like—

Riese: I don’t know if it’s Finley’s fault though.

Analyssa: No, it’s definitely not.

Riese: It’s a mutual…

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: For sure. The having sex is actually I think more on Sophie to be like, “I’m at my place of work. I’m wearing a blazer. We’re not going to do this right now.” But as aforementioned, they’re in that early, we simply can’t… the only air we need to breathe is at the back of each other’s throats kind of moment. So they start hooking up and it turns out that there’s an exec from the network, that’s what I assume, there to watch the show today. And he loves the segment so much that he tells Alice, and Alice is like, famously as bosses on talk show hosts are want to do, gives credit to Sophie, good for her, takes them back to the green room of sex again. And luckily Alice is the only person who sees it. I was really nervous.

Riese: Me too, because I don’t care for that kind of little device. So I was like, “Really, guys? This is what you’re going to do?”

Analyssa: But also I thought, we know that something, and we’ll know even more later, that something that Sophie’s grappling with is that Finley is not mature or professional or whatever it is that she’s judging on. And I saw in my mind’s eye, a little telescope came out of my brain and I could see them in the next 30 minutes being like, it’s actually Finley’s fault that Sophie got caught by her boss fucking. And I was already mad about that. And luckily that’s not what happens. But anyway, you know who else saw someone fucking today? It’s Gigi, Gigi saw Nat and Alice having sex in the car, and Alice’s little blonde head popping in and out of the sunroof. And she’s telling that to Dani, while they’re hanging out midday, I don’t know what’s going on here, but that’s fine.

Riese: They love to put Dani at a food truck.

Analyssa: Dani does love a food truck. Gigi asked if they should talk about the other night and Dani is kind of hesitant and then confesses that she thinks it’s a little bit shitty that Gigi sprung her feelings on her during a low point.

Gigi: So we’re going to talk about the other night?
Dani: I was hoping to just skip over it, actually.
Gigi: Oh, okay. She’s a “lock it in the closet and throw away the key” type. My favorite.
Dani: No, I just—
Gigi: You don’t feel the same way, that’s okay. I’m a big girl. I can handle it.
Dani: No, I just thought it was kind of shitty actually.
Gigi: Me telling you I have feelings for you is shitty?
Dani: Well, I had a fucking horrible night, to see the two of them like that, and then you made me feel good, but then I needed a friend.

Riese: But who wouldn’t want, when they were at a low point, for Gigi to tell you that she has feelings about you?

Drew: Yes. But also, I really liked this because—

Riese: It does show that Dani speaks her mind.

Drew: Okay. This is a really hot take, coming this direction of this microphone.

Analyssa: Everyone get ready.

Drew: I think Dani, this season, is my favorite character? This season. Last season, she was maybe my least favorite character. I love her character this season. I relate to her a lot when I didn’t relate to her at all last season. And this season, there’s a lot of things that I really… I think, I don’t know. I really, really like her character and what they’re doing with their character. I mean, I loved the ending of the last episode, as you remember from my intense enthusiasm. But I do think that, yeah, it was a little bit… if Gigi’s for real and really wants a real relationship here with Dani, bringing up those feelings when the person is in crisis, isn’t the most—

Riese: They were talking about ice cream, competitive ice cream eating.

Analyssa: They were kind of on a date at that point.

Riese: Yeah. The past was in the past.

Drew: That was a pretty intense — I don’t know. I’m just saying, I don’t think it was bad. I don’t think Gigi’s abusive. I just think that Dani being like, “I feel complicated because of these circumstances” and then talking it out and then they talked. This is what happens when characters actually talk, when people talk, look, queer people talk. And Gigi’s like, “You should talk to Bette. If, what actually is, is that you feel like — talk to Bette.” It’s great. I love it.

Riese: Dani is — she’s just so wide-eyed and she doesn’t know what she is. She’s like—

Dani: I would never want someone to feel the way I did when Sophie—
Gigi: I don’t think that had very strong feelings for me.
Dani: I find that hard to believe.

Riese: It’s so awkward for Gigi because she obviously wants to be like, “No. I mean, she really didn’t like me.”

Analyssa: She really didn’t, and also it’s such a strong indicator that Dani has really strong feelings for Gigi, because—

Drew: I thought that was so cute.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I thought it was very sweet.

Drew: It’s such a thing where you’re like, when you fall in love with someone, and you hear all their stories and you’re like, “Yeah, that person broke your heart? Dumped you? What? You’re clearly the best person who’s ever walked on this planet.” It’s very sweet.

Riese: Speaking of people who have had sex, we go back to The Alice Show where Alice is like, “You motherfuckers, what the fuck.”

Analyssa: But do you like that Alice is one of the 35 Sinley shippers in the world?

Riese: I do! She said, “I love you guys together.” Yeah. She’s number 35! And Finley’s like, “Could it just be my fault because I don’t work here anymore?” But that’s not how it works. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. You guys shouldn’t… and she’s like, “What is it about that room?” Anyway. It was funny and cute.

Alice: Febreze the shit out of that couch before you leave.
Sophie: Absolutely.
Finley: Copy. Febreezing.

Analyssa: I like this Alice-Sophie relationship, friendship. I think it’s fun.

Riese: I think so too.

Drew: I like it too. Speaking of emotional processing, Angie tells Kayla that Jordi’s preoccupied with prom and that their relationship isn’t going well. And then she’s like, “Have you ever broken up with anyone?”

Riese: I’m like, Angie, at least talk to her about it first?! What are you doing, you crazy girl? What is in those smoothies, man. They love to put people under 18 drinking a goddamn smoothie on this show. Why do they just want to get a straw and pop it into a plastic cup so hard?

Analyssa: Critically, Angie is 16. So she’s never had to talk through a problem in a relationship before. She has the thing that honestly, sometimes I still have, which is like, “Oh, this doesn’t work? Guess it’s done. Guess we don’t work.” The other thing I thought was really sweet in this scene was Angie going, “Jordi just only cares about Prom.” And Kayla goes, “That seems fun. Seems like she’s having a fun time.” And I thought that was really funny. And the thing is, all of the Jordi-is-normally-supportive stuff aside, Kayla kind of makes, without trying to, a good point, which is sometimes you have people who you talk with about fun stuff. And Kayla is happy to talk about the dad stuff. And I read this book last summer, Drew already has heard this, actually once today. And it had a line in it. It’s a girl who goes to therapy and the therapist is like, “You can’t keep trying to get milk at the hardware store,” about trying to connect emotionally with your mother who refuses to do that. And I think it’s useful. It felt like, I read that line and I was like, “Have I gone to therapy?” And that’s sort of what I felt here, there is something for Angie and Jordi to discuss clearly, but also you can’t get milk from the hardware store. Just ask Kayla. That’s fine. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. But she should expect her girlfriend to be interested in her interests.

Analyssa: 100%. And also they should have a conversation about it.

Riese: Yeah. Kayla did a great job acting. She sucked on that straw. I completely believed she was drinking her smoothie. And I was like, “Wow, good job you guys.”

Analyssa: Teen actors get smoothie cups, which are always clear. And you can see through them, adult actors sometimes get coffee cups, which are just plainly empty and a weird tool.

Riese: Ageism.

Analyssa: Yeah. Speaking of people who should talk to each other… I really don’t know what the scene started as. I didn’t like it.

Riese: It seemed like Sophie for some reason is… Finley and Sophie are perfect together because Finley just takes it. You know what I mean? Dani would be like, “No,” or really anyone. But Finley’s own self-esteem is kind of wobbling. And also I think she’s used to no one taking her seriously.

Analyssa: She kind of jokes her way into Sophie calming down about some non-existent issue. Basically Sophie is sort of like, “Can you cook?” I don’t know it just starting to—

Drew: Well, what happens is what you were saying earlier that basically Sophie decides that even though she did this thing where she was one of the two people having sex in that room, that, because she feels embarrassed, it’s Finley’s fault. And so she’s like, “You’re so immature” and it’s like, “no, Sophie, maybe you have to, I mean, yes, but also maybe you have to confront the fact that you also made this mistake and you’re also immature and, but yeah, Finley just sort of takes it, but then Finley blames her immaturity on getting kicked out at 18 and having some stunted development.

Riese: She doesn’t blame her immaturity on it. She just says she’s not as grown up as Dani, but I mean, Dani’s father gave her a… She’s now CEO of her father’s company and that’s a much different place to be coming from than Finley getting kicked out of her home in Missouri.

Drew: Totally. I feel like, I don’t… I wasn’t saying that with judgment, I was just like her not being grown up, immaturity, I guess I was like using those interchangeably, but… Which I think is a… It is a fair point. I think it’s something that a lot of queer people have to realize, is that like, whatever, sort of lost youth stunted adulthood, that queer people often have, that honestly, trans people have even more than cis queer people. I think you have to sort of realize that it’s not an excuse. It is an explanation, but it’s not necessarily an excuse and you have to work on that. And I think her self-awareness is probably a positive, as far as that’s the, it’s the first step you know, of knowing that you have to fix something, is knowing the origin and knowing that it’s a problem, but Sophie’s being very mean.

Analyssa: But… Yeah, I was going to say. I don’t know that Finley actually has something to fix in this specific situation. It’s like, I think what she’s saying is like, “Yeah, I can’t cook fancy meals because I didn’t grow up in a fancy house. I got kicked out. So my go-to meal is an oven pizza. Sorry.” That’s kind of what it felt like to me. Anyway.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They recover this, sort of, by Finley being jokey.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: And then Sophie is like, oh, I actually was just asking you questions because I want to get to know you more.

Drew: Which is bullshit.

Analyssa: In a different way, which is not true. You were just rude to me.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I’m just like, this is obviously going to be a conflict for them. That was… This is the main conflict we’ve all been anticipating, Sophie is very ambitious and has her career aspirations and Finley really doesn’t have any aspirations. And it’s hard to know if that’s something that she’s done because she didn’t have any options. And so she just has been trying to paddle around or whatever. But I mean, then she eventually is like, “Just so you know, I’m down to be a stay at home baby daddy.” And I’m like, oh yikes.

Analyssa: Right after Sophie visibly tries not to make a face when Finley is like, “I don’t know, the kid’s soccer coaching thing is going well.” Sophie, I could just see this whole mask kind of fall.

Riese: Yeah, she just said it and was like… But you knew… She knew this about Finley.

Drew: She knew this about Finley, so that it’s, I mean it’s… This is… I do think there are ways in which Finley is immature and needs to grow up. But I think that Sophie’s issues with her are more just issues with who Finley just genuinely is. And if she doesn’t want to date her, she doesn’t have to date her. But plenty of people would want Finley as their goofy stay at home dad.

Analyssa: The other thing though, and then we can move on, is Sophie, I don’t think actually cares about Finley’s lack of ambition. I think she cares about how Finley’s lack of ambition is perceived by other people in her orbit.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Analyssa: I don’t actually think she gives a shit what Finley does, except for how it looks to the people… I mean, later we see this at the party or whatever, it just kind of, it rubs me the wrong way. It’s like a focus of, it feels mean-spirited almost, rather than oh, this is just something, this is a difference in core values. It’s actually, I wish that you were more show-offable in the way that Dani was.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: That’s not exactly what she says, but that’s what it feels like to me and I’m speaking for Anna.

Drew: Yeah, I think that’s true though. I…

Riese: I projected onto this scene when someone told me that they were down to be a stay at home baby daddy. And I was like, this is terrifying to me.

Drew: Oh yeah. It’s my nightmare, but I wouldn’t date that person.

Riese: Because I was like, you know I’ll be solely working for Autostraddle, right? Because there’s, I’m never going to be making a two income salary. You know what I mean? Like, sorry. It was a lot. It was a lot.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, but that’s, that… It’s also my nightmare.

Riese: Also, Sophie wants to be a stay at home mom.

Drew: Yeah. But, no one… They don’t want a job. No working, 2021.

Analyssa: I mean, in The L Word, they already don’t go to work that often. Speaking of work though, now we’re at the event that Drew and I didn’t know about.

Riese: The event!

Drew: Yay.

Analyssa: Woo-hoo. I love that, again, The L Word posits that poker is the only thing to do on a Saturday night and the only way to make a large amount of money.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: They didn’t just throw a…

Riese: Party.

Analyssa: Nope.

Riese: A karaoke party.

Analyssa: A karaoke party. I was just about to say that.

Drew: Everybody loves an auction, you know.

Riese: Do a date auction. My boyfriend’s fraternity did that and I bid on…

Drew: I don’t know if we should be following what your boyfriend’s fraternity did.

Analyssa: Did you win him?

Riese: Yeah, I think because everyone was scared of me. Probably. But I mean, he was not a prize, I’ll tell you what. So…

Analyssa: Okay. So…

Drew: Oh boy.

Analyssa: We’re at the event.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Once again, everyone’s in the same room for most of this episode, as with the last episode.

Drew: Yeah it’s fun. First, I really think Alice looks good. I mean, we’ve been saying Alice looks good this whole episode, but—

Riese: I didn’t like her hair.

Drew: It worked for me.

Analyssa: Drew really liked her hair.

Drew: I was really surprised that it worked for me.

Analyssa: I like that look on people. Not to brag, but that’s how I did my hair when I went to the Golden Globes party, before the world shut down, January 2020.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: So Alice is here, I agree with Drew, looking great. And she sees Sophie and Finley and she’s like…

Alice: It’s nice to see you two dressed up! Or wearing anything really.
Finley: Oh, good one. Yeah. We deserve that.
Sophie: Well, thanks for being so cool. I was just really horrified about the whole thing.
Alice: Oh my God. I’ve done worse, first of all. But there’s a lot of network people here, so you can make nice.
Finley: Okay. That’s awesome.
Sophie: That’s good. Yeah, we’ve got it.

Analyssa: And then also, Nat is here, which means that Alice is not going to be on her best behavior. So it’s…

Riese: I think this whole interaction was really cute.

Drew: Yeah, I really liked this.

Riese: Because, like Finley and Sophie are kind of teasing them and they’re not, they’re…. It’s just funny. It’s a cute little, it was cute.

Finley: Wow. Hi. Okay. Are you, are you two…?
Alice: We just… us? We just hang out and stuff.
Sophie: Oh.
Nat: Yep. Just hanging.
Sophie: Okay.
Finley: Sounds totally believable.
Shane: Hey.
Alice: Pretty much all we do.
Shane: So glad you guys made it. Hi.
Alice: Hi.
Shane: And you made it?
Nat: Yes. Hi, good to see you.
Shane: Been a while, yeah.
Nat: Yeah. It has. Happy to be here.

Analyssa: And I thought that continued into when Shane is talking to Alice about communicating with Nat and how was it going. And Alice is like, what are you Oprah? I thought that was very funny. And then, that ball of fun keeps rolling because Bette and Pippa are here too.

Riese: Yeah. And Bette is again, has made a choice and her choices of blazer that is two ideas, in one blazer. And that is art and that is power.

Drew: She likes to Frankenstein her blazers.

Analyssa: That is power, is a patchwork blazer. Yeah.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Shane and Alice embarrass Bette in front of Pippa. And they do a—

Riese: That was cute.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They do a whole little routine about how long Bette has been chasing Pippa and how bad she wanted her. And it’s not super clear if it’s about professional stuff or sexual stuff, but it’s embarrassing nonetheless, and very fun.

Drew: And then Carrie shows up. Or Carrie’s there.

Riese: Well, first Shane asks Alice if she’s ever seen Dumb and Dumber.

Analyssa: Because Alice is wearing that blue suit.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Carrie shows up.

Riese: Right Before we get to the, all of the cringe of it. They, her and Alice have a super, super cute interaction, that is obviously intentionally meta.

Carrie: Hey!
Alice: Oh, hey Carrie.
Carrie: How are you?
Alice: Good.
Carrie: Good. You look great.
Alice: Thank you.
Carrie: I just wanted you to know, I love the show this season. It’s fantastic.
Alice: Ah, that’s really sweet.
Carrie: I mean, a lesbian talk show host?
Alice: That’s me.
Carrie: It’s unprecedented.
Alice: I know. Well, there’s Ellen.
Carrie: Yeah.
Alice: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah.
Alice: But yeah, after that, I can’t think of anyone. It was like, road wide open.
Carrie: No, you’re like paving the way for everybody. It’s… It means a lot to a lot of people, means a lot to me.
Alice: Thank you. Have you been to a talk show?
Carrie: Never.
Alice: I can get you tickets.
Carrie: Are you kidding?
Alice: No, I could do… I mean, I could call my producer and…
Carrie: Oh, I would love it. That’s something.

Riese: It’s really funny.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s cute, because you know…

Drew: I enjoyed that.

Riese: I enjoyed that. I imagined all of them on the set being like… Aren’t you so funny and self-referential?

Drew: And then, Alice offers Carrie tickets, which, going to see tapings is such a miserable experience. That is something that you learn when you go to see tapings. But I do feel like Carrie would be the kind of person who would want to go to see a taping and might actually enjoy it.

Riese: Rosie got me tickets to go to The View and I had a great time at 6:00 AM or whenever it was.

Drew: I’m so glad you did.

Analyssa: Yeah. Something weird about tapings is that you always have to go at an insane time. You always have to sit in a very cold stage for a long time. And they’re always plastic folding chairs. Not to get super LA about it, but I hope Carrie has a fun time.

Drew: Okay. So Finley asks Sophie if she thinks Alice is a top, which was a fun little interaction. And then Sophie brings up Tom, and Finley says she was going to ask how riding the D was. It’s just like… okay.

Analyssa: The show alternating between caring a lot about if Tom is a man, and not caring at all if Tom is a man is…

Riese: I mean, I think this is a realistic thing that someone like Finley would say.

Drew: Yeah. I guess so.

Analyssa: True.

Drew: It’s like, it’s not unrealistic. I just… I don’t know. It’s one of those things that’s like, it’s not transphobic. Obviously we know that Tom is a cis man. It’s just one of those things that feels, I don’t know. I mean, it’s not something that I would ever bring up if someone said out in the world, which people say stuff like this all the time. It’s just… I don’t know.

Analyssa: What else is not a surprise, is that Finley crushes with this old white man exec.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yeah. I think it is such a silly thing of Sophie to be nervous about this. Obviously this is going to go well. You know what? I’ve spent a lot of time with white male execs in my day, not a lie, and you know what they love?

Riese: Baby masc lesbians?

Analyssa: Yes. But, being flattered, being played to as… They love the like, “Hey big guy,” kind of humor, which is what Finley does because she’s a baby masc lesbian. She’s like elbowing him, bro-ing out. Obviously this man thinks that’s charming and he’s kind of like, Ooh, bonus points because I’m doing it with a woman instead of with a fratty Dartmouth dude, you know?

Riese: Yeah. Like a cool lesbian thinks that… Yeah. And also I think that with Finley’s backstory, she’s had to kind of charm her way into a lot of things because she hasn’t had money or resources. So it was totally predictable that she’s probably good with all different types of people.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And then… So Shane spots Carrie having a drink at the bar and goes over to talk to her because she had seen her walking into the AA meeting. And Carrie says that it wasn’t… She was going to the OA, like Overeaters Anonymous meeting. I don’t know if we’re supposed to believe her or not.

Analyssa: Oh, interesting.

Drew: I just did believe her, but then I, but then as the episode went on, I wondered if we weren’t supposed to believe her.

Riese: Right. Like in the moment when we were watching it, we were like, oh, oh okay. So yeah, she went… But then later in the episode I was like, were we not supposed to believe her? I couldn’t tell.

Analyssa: Interesting.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, what was interesting about this is that whether it is overeating or alcohol, she says that being around Bette and this group of people is really triggering for her. And that, if Bette just gave her a chance, she thinks that she might like her and it brings up all this stuff. And it is interesting to see. It is a little bit like the lobster episode of the original L Word, of seeing the unspoken fact that The L Word is populated by this very specific type of person who is, sort of a nightmare, or at least very much fitting into this, I don’t know, certain box. Like actually addressing that, and actually being like, this is a… It’s very hard to be around these kinds of people. And if you’re not up to their, whatever level, and I thought that was interesting to have her explicitly say that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. Shane—

Riese: She also over shares and it’s so cringy.

Drew: Yes. Very much so.

Riese: Because you can tell like Shane, because she’s like, I’ve… And in a way it reminded me of me, but she starts talking about her antidepressants and that… who, it’s just…

Analyssa: And like, how bad she wants Bette to like her, and maybe she had, maybe she can try this thing. And Shane has been giving good advice this episode and continues to do so. But basically she is like, you have to take it slow with Bette. I wish that Shane had said no, trust me, I’m a Bette expert, but she’s basically doling out advice of, you can’t come on too strong with Bette and viewers of The L Word know because Bette will react poorly. Carrie doesn’t know that, so she’s for sure going to continue on with her plan. But yeah…

Drew: Do we… Riese, you would know this, how did Shane become friends with Bette and all of them?

Riese: Did they meet at that millennium party or whatever, or were they already friends with her at that point?

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Drew: I don’t know. It just seems like such a thing where I find it surprising that Bette would not be judgmental towards Shane, when Bette first had met Shane.

Riese: No, it was Dana who was judgmental towards Shane.

Drew: Yeah. It was Dana. Anyways, that was just something that I was thinking about. But yeah, it is very cringy, but also it’s not the cringiest thing that we’re… It’s going to get cringier.

Riese: Nope. We’re not even there yet.

Drew: But before that, we have a nice little break, which is a scene that I would have been freaking out about, if… I’m just going to give a slight thing and then we can get into the fun part of it. Which is just, it’s about Angie and Jordi. And I just… If the previous scenes with Jordi had been Angie being like, I really want to talk to Jordi about all of my dad stuff. And Jordi’s like, I’m so sorry, I’m just so busy right now, I can’t see you. And Angie’s like, I really needed to talk and Jordi hasn’t been there for me. And it wasn’t like, oh, when I sit with Jordi, she’s texting and being like, oh my god, prom this, prom that, she’s just not available. Then this scene would have hit so hard because it’s like, oh, she was preparing. Anyways, that’s my one little thing, let’s get into the fun, which is that Angie is getting ready to break up with Jordi. And then, Jordi’s like, put on a raincoat and put on these headphones. And then it’s like a promposal for the ages.

Analyssa: Literally, La La Land who? I don’t know her. This was so over the top, but so sweet to me. I thought it was so cute, but I was worried that Angie was going to… I told Drew this, I was nervous about the nature versus nurture situation for a second, because I thought that Angie having gone into this conversation wanting to break up with Jordi, and then Jordi doing this big grand gesture, that she would do a Bette Porter thing and immediately shut down.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: And she didn’t, she was very excited.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, that was… She won her over lickety split. That turned around on a dime.

Drew: I… the way this was happening, I kept thinking about that meme with the sort of stick figures and ones in the corner of the party. And it’s like, they don’t know the blah, blah. I was thinking about that and I was like, they don’t know that I was about to break up with you.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Okay.

Riese: Yikes.

Analyssa: Yeah. Let’s get into the worst scene of this episode, I think. So Carrie, as I said, does not take Shane’s advice and she’s like, I’m going to force myself to be friends with Bette Porter, which is just famously not how Bette Porter works.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I’ve already said famously twice on the pod today. If I say it again…

Riese: Then you’re not going to be famous anymore, we’re going to cut you off the fame list.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: We’re going to put you right down to the D list. Right now you’re on the A list.

Analyssa: Thank you.

Riese: You’re welcome.

Analyssa: She’s asking if she can sit at Bette’s table, if you know, she’s trying to make nice, Bette sort of blows her off and Carrie, as Riese said, overshares and says…

Carrie: So funny. I just had a total flashback from my high school in Staten Island, that when I would ask all the cool girls if I could sit with them at lunch, they would just like, you know, whisper, “She’s such a dyke.”
Bette: Oh god, I’m so sorry. That was obviously not my intention.
Carrie: Oh no, I didn’t mean that.
Bette: At all.
Carrie: No, no, no, no.
Bette: Right.

Analyssa: And then, because Carrie has said, “They used to call me a dyke.” So Bette says that — I genuinely am stunned. I don’t know what to say. So Bette says, “That happened to me too at soccer camp, there were these girls who called it me,” and then she uses the N-word, and then “a dyke.” And the thing about it is to me, I was like, when she started the story, I was like, oh, we’re doing a thing where we’re all bonding about how some of us have been called dykes in high school. And, some of us have been bullied, and it never seemed like she was trying to bond in good faith, but it seemed kind of like a Bette Porter, everyone’s been through that experience, so sure. But because of the escalation of what she shares, which in the universe of The L Word, if that is Bette’s experience, then sure.

Drew: I don’t know what they’re trying to accomplish with this scene, because then the scene continues and it’s not that one moment, like Bette continues to be—

Riese: It keeps getting worse.

Carrie: I guess that I just wanted your blessing maybe, or just acceptance would be nice.
Bette: You know what? If you think what you have with Tina is working and you feel really good about it, then I don’t see why you would care what I think about you.

Drew: I think it’s something we’ve talked about a lot with The L Word, past and present, is that sometimes they will pair these things that are actual issues to talk about with a character in the wrong. And so then you’re like, wait, what do you want us to think here? Because yeah, Bette experiences racism that Carrie does not understand. That’s not what this is about though, so why are you having Bette express that when, like in this… It just, it undermines like—

Riese: It undermines how terrible it is.

Drew: Yeah. And I just—

Riese: And how traumatic it is.

Drew: And I just don’t really know what they want our… Do they want our response to be that Bette and Carrie are equally at fault here or equally right? Is that what they want us to feel? Because it feels rough.

Riese: I mean, it’s so… Because first of all, Carrie is being, I mean, she’s being inappropriate also. I had secondhand embarrassment for her. Because I was like, first of all, why are you bringing that… Bringing up that you were bullied in high school, it was so… And also she’s already a little bit drunk. And so you’re a little bit nervous about where this could go.

Analyssa: This is the thing where I agree with Bette, that this is a person who I would not want to engage with a ton at this party in this moment. I would also try to blow off this type of person in my life.

Riese: But look, Shane just did it. A lot better.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: But again, it’s just like, so am I supposed to think that Bette handled this correctly? Or am I supposed to think Carrie is being awkward and so Bette should have done it like this? It doesn’t make sense. And the thing is, it’s fine to not want to be friends with your person’s new person, that is allowed. And Drew, to your point about Bette, you don’t need to tell people specifically about the thing, she could have just been like, look…

Riese: I’m on a date.

Analyssa: Yeah. “I have someone with me. I will be civil because of Tina, but we’re… I’m not going to do this friend thing.”

Riese: Yeah. And also, because Carrie can’t assume that Bette is going to want to spend the night with her. Like you can’t just show up and be like, I’ve decided this is what we’re doing.

Drew: Totally.

Riese: You know what I mean? So like, and then it’s like, I don’t know what the show wants us to think. Because they’re both wrong.

Drew: Sure they’re both… they’re, yeah.

Riese: Like when I write out the squabble, I don’t know who wins. No one.

Analyssa: No one won. And again, in Bette Porter sharing instances of racism, I would like to clear cuttedly be on her side. I would like to be like, that was fucked and we should talk about that. I don’t want to be like, why would you say that now?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: That’s… I don’t want to have conflicted feelings about that. I want to be like, yes, you experienced racism and that’s bad. We should not… I don’t know.

Drew: There’s an interesting thing that the show could have done, which I don’t think — and maybe they were trying to do this and I don’t necessarily think it’s working, which is to say that Carrie has an energy of being nice, being friendly, being chatty. I mean, it reminds me of conversations around the show Ted Lasso and stuff that that shows exploring, I think quite well this season, of sometimes the person who is the most, “Well, I want to be friends with everybody!” That that’s not actually kind. That’s not actually nice. It’s not thoughtful. It’s not listening. And so I do think there’s something that’s interesting as far as, Carrie is Tina’s new partner and Bette is still clearly heartbroken over it and that Carrie’s intense energy… I don’t know, like there’s things to explore. There’s also things to explore as far as identities and the different ways the two of them move through the world, and the different things that they’ve experienced in their life. And there is a nuanced, interesting conversation to be had about the fact that when you look at the two of them, Bette is clearly being mean to Carrie. But that doesn’t inherently mean that she’s in the wrong and Carrie’s in the right for being, quote, unquote, nice. But I don’t feel like that was handled well because it’s so skewed and Bette’s so cruel and that if that is what they’re going for, I don’t necessarily… That’s such a complicated thing to unpack and I don’t necessarily feel like they lived in the complication enough. And so instead it was just like, wow!

Riese: I don’t think they thought through enough, why on earth Carrie would come to this event?

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Or…

Drew: Why was she volunteering?

Riese: Why… She explains why she’s coming, but it doesn’t make sense.

Drew: When you’re in high school and people are bullying you, you have nowhere to go. You’re in a, whatever your class size is, like those are the people in your life. The great thing about being an adult is that when you, when I meet people now who remind me of assholes I went to high school with, I go, “Oh, you remind me of assholes I went to high school with. You are not going to be in my life”. Or because Bette has to be in Carrie’s life, it’d be like “I’m going to smile and kill you with kindness, but not interact with you whenever I don’t have to, and we don’t need to be friends.” Clearly Carrie has a lot of damage and has not confronted those old wounds, and is projecting a lot onto the admittedly very toxic, very scary environment that is The L Word’s lesbian universe. So that is really interesting to me, and it feels realistic to me. I just don’t know what we’re supposed to think about Bette’s reaction to it.

Analyssa: Okay. Let’s all continue to chew on that and just move on, but I’m sorry, Dani needs an advanced team for every event she gets invited to right now.

Drew: Oh my God!

Riese: Because every time she walks in and is stunned that the people who have broken her heart are there, and I just feel like someone should go do the groundwork, come back outside and say “Okay, I’m prepping you. They’re standing over there. They’re standing over there.”

Drew: They’re not standing, they’re kissing!

Riese: Another bold choice this evening, from Carrie and from Dani. And also no one in this fucking writer’s room said “You know what, all of our characters have names that end with I or IE”. All of them!

Analyssa: I said that, and I really didn’t feel like you guys latched onto it as much as I wanted to, and it’s crazy.

Riese: You’re correct. You’re correct. It is insane. All of the new characters, all of them. Literally every single one of them, except Micah.

Drew: Yeah, Micah and Mirabel. But, yeah.

Riese: Like Sophie, Dani, Jordi, Angie, Finley.

Drew: Wow. Oh I forgot about Jordi.

Analyssa: Gigi, Carrie.

Riese: Gigi, Carrie.

Drew: Wow. What’s happening?

Riese: All we have is Nat and Micah.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Both of whom are in and out. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Who we aren’t talking about enough. I’ve said the “I” sound so much on this podcast.

Riese: Yeah, someone needs to go in and fix this ASAP.

Drew: Fascinating.

Analyssa: Change all their names immediately.

Riese: Dani, also, why are you going to this event alone?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: You know who probably would go with you, and who’s not doing anything? Is Gigi.

Drew: Well, Dani’s going to the event to talk to Bette, right?

Analyssa: Oh, right, she’s—

Drew: Dani is going to be like, “Hey Bette, we’re having a good time at this event. So how would you feel if I hooked up with your ex-girlfriend?”

Riese: Oh right.

Drew: “Who you’re clearly still in love with, because who wouldn’t be in love with Gigi?”

Riese: Her little mission, yeah, I should talk—

Analyssa: Dani’s here to ask Bette—

Riese: She doesn’t want anyone to get hurt like she was hurt.

Drew: Really nice.

Analyssa: It’s very sweet, but it’s very silly to imagine Dani here to ask Bette for Gigi’s hand in relationship. It doesn’t make any sense, because Bette could not care less about Gigi, and I wish that Dani would just accept that. But we’re on our way to that, because she goes into the bathroom to avoid Sophie and Finley kissing…

Drew: Yeah. Nat and Alice are having stall sex.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: What number sex would you rank bathroom stall sex?

Analyssa: It’s low for me.

Riese: I would say low. Yeah, I would say low.

Drew: Clean bathroom stall sex?

Riese: Right. I don’t know if I’ve done it in a clean bathroom.

Analyssa: My experience is all in bar bathrooms, or party bathrooms, which are not great. What did you put ex-sex at, 11?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And then I argued up to 7?

Drew: I would put bathroom stall sex at a 7.

Analyssa: Fascinating. I would say…

Drew: Yeah, I’ve had some good bathroom stall sex.

Analyssa: I would say highest is 13.

Riese: On a 1 to 10 scale?

Drew: No, no, no. Ranking the best sexes.

Riese: Oh yeah. It would be pretty far down there for me.

Drew: Like in the teens?

Riese: I think we’re supposed to believe that Nat has an incredibly high sex drive.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Like, wildly high sex drive.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Wildly high sex drive, and loves for it to be in public.

Drew: In public, yes.

Analyssa: The thing about this is that, it’s fine to fuck in bathroom stall. They’re at a fancy event.

Drew: No, it’s not the time.

Analyssa: So Dani says that she’s here to talk to Bette, and Nat and Alice are like, “No, there’s no need.”

Riese: They’re so mean.

Analyssa: You don’t need to do that. Bette doesn’t give a shit.

Riese: Yeah, Bette doesn’t care at all. Take Gigi off our hands. I’m like, you guys, stop.

Analyssa: Everyone is so mean about Gigi. It’s so weird.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t get it.

Analyssa: But they’re like take the Gigi off our hands. Also, Nat reveals…

Nat: And for what it’s worth, Gigi’s really into you.
Dani: Oh.
Nat: Yeah. I had lunch with her the other day and I haven’t seen her like this in a long time.

Riese: Oh yeah. That was cute.

Analyssa: Which I thought was sweet. I think Drew thought it was inappropriate.

Drew: Yeah. I think you should… Look, it’s nice, but I mean you don’t… I don’t know. I think you—

Riese: They have no respect for Gigi, they don’t care about her boundaries.

Drew: Yeah. They should have respected that privacy of—

Analyssa: Nat and Alice are meddlers at heart, and that’s why they like having sex in public places, for some reason.

Drew: The next thing that happens, is one of those things that makes me want to scream, which is that—

Analyssa: Speaking of inappropriate.

Drew: Yeah. Finley apologizes to Dani, but not to actually apologize to Dani. Finley apologizes to Dani with the purpose of saying to Dani, “You were a good partner to Sophie. How do I be a better partner to Sophie?” That’s wild!

Riese: She’s like, “You’re an adult”. Like, “I’m trying to be an adult and you’re so…” She’s like, “I don’t know, get a job?”

Drew: That’s so not Dani’s problem. Are you kidding?

Riese: Yeah. And also like, I mean, it’s funny because they’re throwing back to the earlier scene, where Dani’s like, “We’re the same age” and Dani’s like, “and the similarities end there,” which is like what Finley said earlier. But I think what Dani ends up getting to say about this is so real.

Drew: Yes. It’s my favorite line of the show.

Dani: I’m so sick of people thinking I have it together. Because all that means is that, unlike you, people aren’t inclined to hold me when I need it most. And if you ever use that against me, so help me, God. I will actually kill you.

Drew: Oh yeah. As an earth sign, I really related to that.

Riese: Right. I also like it when a Finley is like—

Finley: Can I hug you?
Dani: No.

Analyssa: Again, Finley, always trying to do the sort of, quote, “good to other people” thing, but very rarely is it the correct “good for other people.” She’s like, “Oh, Dani has admitted something personal. Maybe I should hug her.” It’s like, you’re the one millionth person that Dani would like to hug. There’s so many people ahead of you.

Drew: Yeah. It’s similar to what I was saying about Carrie, where you’re like, “Oh, it’s the nice thing to do.” And you’re like, “but it’s not the kind of thing to do.”

Riese: Right. I don’t think they know what Finley has been doing since between the ages of 18 and 25.

Analyssa: She got kicked out and then she popped back up fully formed, through a time hole into Los Angeles.

Riese: I feel like she would have gone to a state college or something. Just the sense that she’s had to charm her way into her life. Which is good, she’s built up a lot of charm, but she hasn’t really built a resume.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Okay. Now speaking of charm. Bette and Pippa are flirting, because Pippa is so bad at poker, and Bette is into Pippa being off kilter. And they’re chatting, they go to the bar and then their faces get real close to each other and they kiss. And then they decide to leave the party. This is the second event in a row that Bette has left early.

Riese: Yeah. For Pippa.

Analyssa: For Pippa.

Riese: It seems like it’s kind of ending though, right? Is it?

Drew: What?

Riese: The event?

Drew: Yeah, I think it’s winding down.

Analyssa: For sure.

Riese: Who won, do you think?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: Shane, probably. I have no idea.

Riese: Shane, yeah. You know what? This would have been a great time for a Papi cameo.

Drew: Again, I think I would have been way more excited about this if I wasn’t souring on Bette as much as I am.

Analyssa: I agree.

Drew: I was also like, okay, that’s nice. I hope your… Stay safe, Pippa, I don’t love that you’re tied professionally and personally with this person, who’s like, “I will protect you. I will take care of you.” I’m like, okay. I hope Bette’s not kidding. I hope you’re really the special one. Cause I’m a little bit scared for you.

Analyssa: Yeah, don’t say anything Bette might really dislike. Cause then you could be in the splash zone, not in a fun way. Also at the bar is Nat, who is flirting with someone who is not Alice, and Alice hates it. And Nat comes over and is like, “oh my God, that woman at the bar asked me if you’re Alice from TV.” Like, wants to bond over having just flirted with someone else at the bar, and Alice doesn’t like it. And so of course it’s time for a big, big talk, which is to say no talk at all, just basically nothing’s changed. We’re having sex and it’s fun, but it’s not going to work.

Drew: Yeah. And Alice is like, “Why do you have to make me be the one to say this?” And I think that’s true. I do think that at this point, it is, I think, on Nat to equally be like… Not to act clueless, I was a little annoyed with Nat for acting so clueless. No, you know that the feelings are still there and the problems are still there, and you know what you want from a relationship, and you know what Alice wants, and they’re not the same thing. And it’s sad, but that happens sometimes, and stop doing this.

Analyssa: Yeah. Especially in this moment, did Nat have to flirt with someone else at the bar? Like, we could have… Anyway.

Riese: Yeah. I feel like that’s Nat’s whole personality now.

Drew: Well, polyamorous people are monsters.

Riese: That is true. It is an accurate representation of the poly community. They can’t contain themselves.

Drew: They just cannot control themselves. Not once could they be like, “Oh, I’m here with one person. And that person doesn’t like when I flirt with other people. So I’m going to control myself tonight.” Never could anyone have those boundaries.

Analyssa: No. They’re flirting all the time.

Riese: Flirting all the time. Yeah.

Analyssa: Then, speaking of big talks, this is not a big talk. Jordi and Angie are sitting where the promposal happened, and they’re chatting and Angie’s like, “I’m so relieved.” And I thought she was going to say, “I thought that you were blowing me off for a couple of weeks.” And Jordi is like, “I know it’s been so crazy. I’ve been planning, but of course I didn’t want to blow the secret.” And I think what they’re trying to do is the thing, Drew, you were saying, I think they’re trying to… It’s not really a retcon, but they’re trying to quickly be like, Angie has been distant because she’s been planning—

Riese: She’s planning a dance?

Analyssa: Because she’s been planning this event, and she doesn’t want to blow the secret. But the thing that doesn’t make sense about that is, if you were trying to keep a secret about prom, you wouldn’t actually keep bringing up prom. You would maybe even say, “Tell me more about your dad, actually. Let’s talk about that.”

Riese: Also, honestly, Jordi’s part in the dance was pretty minimal. The girls did all the fucking legwork, and umbrellas, the umbrellas basically danced for them. She literally walked forward, walked back, waved an umbrella in the air. Come on.

Drew: So Carrie has responded to her interaction with Bette by getting absolutely shit-faced, and is not leaving, even though the event has ended, or is ending. Tess is trying to help and talk to her, and then Shane comes over to talk to Carrie. And then Shane’s like, “I’m going to take you home. It’s on the way.” Which it probably isn’t.

Analyssa: Because Tess is like, “Let’s drive her home because she shouldn’t Lyft”. And Shane’s is like, “You want me to drive her home?”

Riese: No, because she’s like, “I don’t want her to throw up in a Lyft,” and Shane’s like, “Well you want her to throw up in my car?” And Tess is like, “Yeah”. And it’s just like, alright.

Analyssa: I know that this is a rough time for Carrie, but I love her being wasted and being like—

Carrie: Yeah, I’m a lawyer.
Tess: That’s great.
Carrie: I passed the bar in two states actually.

Riese: I know, and she was like, “I have money.”

Analyssa: We talked about this with Bette and Gigi too, she’s just different, for reasons, some of which make sense, and some of which are just inherent to the characters in this show, that’s never going to work, that she’s different.

Riese: But then it was like, I didn’t know… This is when I was like, “are we supposed to think she actually was in AA?” Because at first I was like, “Well Tess might recognize her”, and after I was like, “but Tess Tess probably wouldn’t call that out,” because she wouldn’t call that out. Because are we supposed to see Carrie as somebody who drank too much tonight out of nerves and acted the way she did, or somebody who relapsed tonight, into something that she’s already decided she shouldn’t do in her life, but is still doing? And that’s a very different story, I think.

Analyssa: Yeah, and it has different feelings wrapped up in it. I watched this as, I almost said, “I read this as,” which I guess applies… But as she got drunk out of nerves and tried to feel better, which is still not great.

Riese: But I did love Tess and Shane as parents, that they both were willing to leave the event to make sure she got home safe. This was very different than the way Max was treated. I mean, Tess is an adult, and now I guess Shane is an adult too.

Drew: Love that for her.

Analyssa: Speaking of drunk adults. So Finley and Sophie are leaving the event too, they’re holding hands, they’re cute. Finley tells Sophie that she talked to Dani, Sophie thinks that this is kind of vaguely funny, which is not how I would’ve reacted. Finley says, “I thought I could get tips from Dani,” basically, “on how to love you better.” And Sophie does the thing you would do, which is like—

Sophie: You are so charming.
Finley: Yeah. But not in a good way.
Sophie: Oh, come on. You charmed the pants off of Barry.
Finley: I told him he was good looking. That’s not…
Sophie: Yes, yes. And he loved it. And you were just yourself. You know, that’s hard to do. I can’t do that shit.
Finley: Really?
Sophie: Yeah.
Finley: Okay.
Sophie: I lose myself all the time. Lose myself at work, I lost myself with Dani. Oh, you just… I can just be myself with you. I don’t have to think about it.

Riese: Which I thought was kind of cute.

Drew: Yeah, that’s nice.

Analyssa: I do think that’s sweet.

Riese: But it was also like once they got to the car and were standing outside of the car, and drinking out of a flask, and about to get into the car and drive home, I immediately lost my mind and was unable to concentrate for the rest of the episode.

Analyssa: While they were standing next to the van kissing, or the whatever, kissing, I was like, “Surely they’re not getting into this car? They’re waiting for a Lyft or they’re going to walk away.” And then they’re kissing up against the car, and I was like, “Well, this is a weird…” And then I thought maybe Dani might show up. I was expecting different drama. And then Finley takes a big pull out of a flask, and then 30 seconds later, fewer, five seconds later. Sophie goes, “You’re good to drive, right?” So they get in the car.

Riese: I mean, I am assuming, Finley is an alcoholic, so Finley is probably very used to driving drunk. And Sophie probably thinks it’s fine, but also, it’s obviously not fine. And we’ve seen them have, how many drinks? Three? And they’ve only been on camera for like, 15 seconds.

Drew: Yeah. It’s not…

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s stressful to me.

Riese: Because I mean, in a TV show when someone’s like, “Are you okay to drive?” and they’re drunk, you know something’s being set up.

Analyssa: Immediately, something bad is going to happen.

Riese: And I was like, “Fuck, you guys!” In all caps, I wrote, “ARE YOU OKAY TO DRIVE SHE SAYS AS FINLEY IS DRINKING FROM A FLASK”

Analyssa: Does a pull from a flask, then gets directly into a car. There’s no way.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: No!

Riese: Nope.

Analyssa: What you should have said is, “Did you just see me take the pull off the flask? Let’s get a Lyft. Let’s walk for a while, maybe.” Anything.

Riese: Right. Because even if she is okay to drive, even if Sophie honestly believes that she’s okay to drive, it’s also not legal for her to drive. And that’s a really bad situation. Finley barely has any money, she cannot afford any of this for many reasons. Anyway. Anyway!

Analyssa: Anyway.

Riese: Something more exciting happened, which I did watch on my second go round.

Analyssa: Which you were able to see when you watched it again.

Riese: Which I was able to see, cause I had already seen it.

Analyssa: Dani has gone over to Gigi’s and is ringing her doorbell in the middle of the night, and it’s lightly starting to rain, which we will see a lot more of, I’ll tell you what. And Gigi’s like—

Gigi: You’re a lot more dramatic than I thought.

Analyssa: I agree with Gigi that this is quite dramatic.

Drew: It is very dramatic. I really, really like this couple though. Dani says that she’s been hurt a lot, and basically does a little light slut shaming of Gigi.

Riese: Yeah, I didn’t care for that, cause I have had that exact same thing said to me, and I’m like, literally we were at an event… what… did you think was going to happen?

Drew: Right. It’s not good. But what I liked is that, by taking a beat, like they were able to take… Instead of Gigi just getting upset or whatever, they were able to get at the actual… What Dani was actually trying to get at was—

Riese: Do you really like me?

Drew: Do you really like me?

Riese: Or do you like everyone?

Analyssa: Do you just like hooking up with people?

Riese: Which, obviously, fair question.

Analyssa: Gigi does love flirting with people. So that’s fair.

Drew: Yeah. So I liked that they eventually got there, and it does go to show that, not that you should be okay with people being mean to you, but sometimes taking a second instead of immediately getting sensitive and upset, to actually ask a followup question, can lead to good things. And what it leads to this time is a kiss in the rain!

Analyssa: A pretty good kiss.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: The L Word loves kissing, and I love kissing also. And I love when The L Word loves kissing. The amount of hair must be discussed.

Riese: Also, as a Jew, I’m just like, “it’s raining, and their hair is out.”

Drew: No, I would never.

Riese: And the frizz. I can already see it collecting.

Analyssa: You can see it start to build, but also as a person with I’m sure a similar hair texture to Dani, which is vaguely wavy, not super tight curls, that is going to explode. She’s going to get so puffy. And she had a nice blowout. She ruined the blowout. Gigi at least has some bedhead. Dani just wasted whatever work or money she put into her hair for this evening.

Drew: I’ve been very “I don’t want to get my hair wet, I don’t want to get my hair wet,” because I’m very precious about it. I would get my hair wet to kiss Gigi in the rain. I just want to go on the record to say that.

Analyssa: I would also kind of get my hair wet to kiss Dani in the rain. I’ll say. I think she’s very beautiful.

Drew: Do we want to break them up? And then just like, take…

Analyssa: No, I’m happy to just watch them kiss in the rain for now. But Gigi is like, “Come in,” and Dani is like, “No, no, no. Not yet. But let’s keep kissing outside.”

Riese: Yeah. She wants to take it slow. She’s such a proper lady in her proper lady dress.

Drew: I think it was more about emotional damage of the whole…

Riese: Yeah. I mean, it is true… People fuck on the first night on this program.

Analyssa: Frequently.

Riese: I would say. I mean like Tom and Alice, that was their first… He thought about being with her for how long? 15, 16 minutes? And then they were already romping around in the hay having sex that we thought was boring.

Analyssa: 30 minutes before they were fully inside each other, he was like, “I’m going to set you up with someone.” And Alice had to be like, “No, I’m hitting on you.”

Riese: Yeah. And then they’re bang, bang, bang. And that is the same for all of the couples. They really just go home and bang.

Drew: I appreciate this not hooking up on the first date representation.

Riese: Right, cause we’re about to get hooking up on the first date representation.

Analyssa: Soon.

Riese: This is a very sexy episode. Honestly, everyone in this episode was so horny.

Drew: Yeah. I love that.

Riese: It was bursting at the gills, which was very enjoyable. My note for the Dani/Gigi scene is, “I’m still really stressed out about Finley driving.”

Analyssa: Anyway, the image of these two women with thick, luscious, very long hair, both their hands are in the other person’s hair. If they moved in together… I recently lived with someone, my roommate, who had very long, very thick hair, and I have decently long hair. Disgusting. It’s everywhere. You’ll never not find it.

Riese: You guys are gonna do great.

Drew: Yeah, I was about to be like, “I hate to break it to you about your new roommate, but…”

Analyssa: No, but that’s the thing. They’ll never not find each other’s hairs in the bathroom, in the kitchen. Anyway, not the point.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So one last thing with Carrie, and then we can talk about more fun stuff. Carrie is drunk, Shane and Tess have gotten Carrie home, and they’re getting her into the house. They’re being very sweet, very kind.

Riese: And she’s so sad. She’s like, “You people are all so beautiful.”

Analyssa: It’s really sad.

Riese: Not to rag on Tina again. But Tina, have they texted tonight?

Analyssa: Right?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I know that Tina is out of town or busy or whatever, but—

Riese: How busy?

Analyssa: I think that this calls for a phone call or something.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Also, why didn’t Shane call Tina? I guess, because for some reason they refused to put Tina in scenes with Shane and Alice?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Who they were also, for some reason, friends with Tina.

Drew: Yeah. My explanation is that in the Bette breakup, things got bad with Shane and Alice also, it’s the only explanation.

Analyssa: Yeah. But, now in 2021, Tina and Bette are cordial, she’s around because of Angie. So Shane, especially who’s deeply involved in Angie’s life could be…

Riese: They did have lunch or something in season one, I think altogether? Maybe or just Shane? Anyway, poor Carrie.

Analyssa: Yeah. And it made me really sad too, because it’s a direct callback to when Carrie and Tina have dinner at Bette and Gigi’s first date and Tina is like, “You’re beautiful.”

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: And Carrie got emotional.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I did love the moment, I think it’s earlier when Carrie’s like, “I was supposed to have a great night. I have a little sharp suit on.”

Riese: “I got a new outfit.”

Analyssa: You do look cute. It’s fine.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: These people are mean, don’t let them bully you.

Drew: They’re very mean.

Riese: Except for Shane and Tess who are little perfect angels walking her home.

Drew: Yeah.

Shane: We’re going to get you settled in warm and I promise you, it’s going to be okay.
Tess: Yeah. We’re going to get you water and a cozy bed.
Carrie: I don’t think you guys understand, I just can’t live like this, the rest of my life. I don’t think I can marry Tina.

Drew: I do think that Carrie is 60 years old and should not be this fragile, but I don’t think it’s unrealistic for this 60-year-old queer to be this fragile and I’m finding it to be very interesting. I found everything with her this episode, again, from the Bette perspective, I don’t really know what’s going on, but from a Carrie point of view, I find this whole thing with her to be very interesting.

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: I think also, she’s a public defender?

Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Riese: That’s really cool and great.

Drew: That’s so cool.

Analyssa: Again—

Riese: I mean Max had nothing going on.

Analyssa: Again—

Riese: Oh, wait, that’s not true he had many computers.

Drew: He invented computers.

Analyssa: He invented computers, please respect him.

Drew: And he had that beard.

Riese: Right. But not yet.

Analyssa: She’s passed the bar in two states.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That is hard. She’s smart and savvy and—

Riese: She gets in front of courtrooms every day. I know what I was going to say, actually, I was like, is this one of those things where when I’m 60, I’m going to look back at 39-year-old me saying, “Wow, that 60 year old should really get her mental health together,” and think that I was completely wrong because I, a 60-year-old woman will be like, “I’ve been on antidepressants,” to Shane at the bar. Probably.

Analyssa: Maybe I will be 60 and still very concerned about how hot people think I am.

Riese: I have learned, though, not to have a ton of drinks and I am only 39. So, there is that.

Drew: I feel like even just in the years that I’ve known you, you’ve changed.

Riese: I have.

Analyssa: That’s nice to say. Carrie says, “I don’t think I can marry Tina.” And you get the sense that this is like a crystallization of a bunch of stuff, but it does feel like there’s one conversation to be had before… It felt very much like Angie being like, “Have you ever broken up with someone?” Because she’s mad at Jordi. Tina was like, “Do it. Break up.” You guys, there are some conversations to be had about Tina and how much they want to be in Bette’s life. And what if they hang out with Carrie’s friends?

Drew: What if they went back… They don’t live in LA, they weren’t living in LA.

Riese: She lives in LA tonight.

Analyssa: Right, there’s a house here.

Drew: I know that. But they weren’t so, go back to what you were doing before.

Drew: Speaking of Bette.

Riese: Speaking of Bette.

Drew: Bette brings Pippa to an art thing, it’s the triangle of light.

Riese: Yeah. That’s a lot.

Analyssa: It’s art.

Riese: It’s art.

Drew: And, Bette loves to have sex on art and they sure do. And even though I’m feeling complicated about Bette, it is very hot.

Analyssa: It’s really hot and also very beautifully shot.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: It’s high-end sex scene for The L Word, I think.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s lovely to look at.

Riese: And we do at long last, see what? The hand on the back.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: We were watching and I pointed, you know that meme of Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the screen?

Riese: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Analyssa: And I was like, promo shot.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: We found it.

Riese: Bette’s nice lacy bra and Pippa’s hand in the light. They love lighting.

Analyssa: The light’s are genuinely very cool, as I’ve already said, but why is everyone having sex at their place of business?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: It’s so frequent in this show.

Riese: Because it’s fun to look at.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I’ve never seen Bette work on a computer as fast as she did in that room. She was like…

Riese: She knew how to— How’s Kismet going to feel about this?

Analyssa: I was going to say—

Riese: Probably good, I guess.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: What is the installation? You get to pick your own lights? Is it that Bette — whatever, it’s fine.

Riese: It’s that you get to have sex with somebody, an artist that you admire under the lighting of your choice. And that has appeal. That’s experiential art.

Analyssa: On a cold, gallery floor.

Riese: On a cold gallery floor. Yes. It’s no overnight jail for protesting.

Drew: Sex in a museum or a gallery would be cool. I’d be into that. I don’t know how it would happen, but…

Riese: I’ve had sex in the parking lot of an art museum.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, we’re playing a quick round of, “I have, I would, I wouldn’t” and we hit all three. Riese says, “I have,” Drew says, “I would,” Ana, “I wouldn’t.” Okay. Good for us. Okay. Tess and Shane are leaving Carrie’s.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Yeah. And she’s like, “Were you that kind of drunk?” And Tess is like, “Oh, I was much worse, but she didn’t break a bone or a dish,” and that was funny.

Analyssa: And then they’re getting—

Riese: Everyone wants their hair to get fucked up tonight, apparently.

Analyssa: And they had an umbrella. They didn’t have—

Riese: No one is thinking about the frizz, everyone’s just thinking about the mouth.

Analyssa: When you kiss in the rain, is it as much water in between your two faces as when you have sex in the shower? I had an ex who was really into shower sex.

Riese: I don’t like shower sex.

Analyssa: I didn’t either. I mean, it’s fun to have sex with someone who you like, you know, I enjoyed it. But when you hit a weird angle and the faucet means that there’s just a stream of water down both of your faces in between where your mouths are touching. That’s a pass for me, and is raining like that? I guess there’s not as much water.

Drew: It depends on the kind… I mean, I would say don’t make out during a tropical storm.

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: I would say do.

Drew: What?

Riese: Make out during a tropical storm.

Drew: But I mean, do it inside with protective windows.

Riese: No. Do it outside.

Drew: But—

Riese: Make out in a hurricane.

Drew: Yeah. I think it depends on… Same with the water pressure of the shower, it depends on the water pressure or the rain.

Analyssa: Never loved it.

Riese: Speaking of people who are horny in an inappropriate location.

Analyssa: So true. Finley and Sophie are driving and they’re looking at each other in love a lot.

Riese: But Sophie’s reaching over and Finley is obviously like, “I’m driving drunk, so I’m doing it. I’m on this.”

Analyssa: 10 and 2, looking forward. Sophie is being pretty annoying. I get that this is a cute thing if nothing goes wrong.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: As we know something goes wrong, so now it’s annoying. But, I don’t remember if I said this in the first season, but anytime two characters are in a car, I expect that there’s going to be a car accident. The reason I think about it in the first season is because Sophie and Dani were driving to their wedding venues. And it was a lot of, through the windows, we’re looking at them driving. And I was like, a car is going to come and T-bone them.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And that’s what I thought was going to happen here too.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: This is the most car crash preparation scene of all time.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: You are just expecting it the whole time.

Riese: Because she sticks Finley’s hands down her pants.

Analyssa: They’re going to do some car sex.

Drew: Would everybody like to say if they would have—

Analyssa: While driving? I simply would not.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I’m going to get vulnerable. I don’t know that I’m good enough with my hands in a stationary sort of situation where I don’t have to be focusing. I’m self-conscious about that when we’re just in a bed. Few variables.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s some personal stuff. That’s fine.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: In a car? There’s no way I can do both.

Riese: Right. I mean if Finley has really long arms…

Analyssa: I wish that the listeners could see my enactment of one hand on the wheel and one arm out just, seems acrobatic in a way that’s not—

Drew: And it feels unsafe in a way that doesn’t… I don’t like it.

Riese: So, I was just like, as soon as she started doing that, I was like, oh my God, oh my God.

Analyssa: You watched this stressfully for a few minutes, not minutes, but it feels eternal. And then of course they don’t get hit by a car, which is—

Riese: Thank God.

Analyssa: … good.

Riese: Or hit someone else.

Analyssa: But there are sirens and a cop is coming. And again in a, this would be cute if we weren’t in a serious situation, but now it’s kind of annoying because it’s serious. Sophie’s like, “But you’re okay. You’re okay. Right?” Like, “You’re okay. Right?” The whole thing… Of course she’s not.

Riese: Giggling about it and putting—

Drew: Which also feels just weird race-wise?

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: I was just a little bit confused by that.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Analyssa: Right. With all of the things that this show wants to talk about.

Riese: Yeah. It’s weird that Sophie wouldn’t be more aware of that. In fact, not just more aware, but incredibly hyper aware.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I feel like Finley’s aware of it because she probably drives drunk so often that it’s always on her mind. But I feel like Sophie would be very much more aware of it than she is in this scene as well.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Again, the sobriety storylines, it’s just not doing it for me.

Riese: Well get ready because Finley is about to be going to AA with Tess.

Analyssa: Right. Well, that’s the thing. This is what I wish. It feels like this is going to be a culmination — in combo with the rest of what happened in this episode — of Finley’s irresponsible and she needs to get her life together with regard to sobriety. They can go together, a person who is very goofy and doesn’t really have career aspirations can also need to get help for drinking.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: But those are so separate.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: They’re not the same issue and it feels, intentionally or not, coming at the end of this episode is like, Finley just fucks around and doesn’t care. And now she’s going to have to get serious and admit that something is wrong.

Riese: Her and Sophie are equally at fault for what just happened.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: And Sophie is even drunk… who knows? But they’re both wasted, neither of them should be driving. And they both made the decision and Sophie instigated the sex.

Analyssa: Well, and Sophie asked Finley to drive. Everyone made bad choices, I’m not saying that. I just don’t love the conflation of, Finley’s irresponsible and that actually points to a bigger problem. Sometimes people are just irresponsible and also sometimes people have very serious problems with alcohol. It seems like Finley has both, but the show doesn’t seem to care that much about pulling those apart.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: It’s all wrapped up into goofball Finley. And again, I realized that sometimes things ping for you in a personal way where you’re like, I’m mad about this actually, me. But it just feels kind of easy for them to make this, the thing.

Riese: Right. But I feel like what they’re setting up is for this to be a conflict now between Finley and Sophie. Because they both played a part in what happened, but Finley is the one who has to deal with the consequences of it. And then Finley is going to have a hard time getting her life on track with everything that she’s going to be required to do as a person with a DUI. And then Sophie is going to hold that against her. And I can already see all of the fucking—

Analyssa: Or, maybe more annoyingly, she’s somehow going to get out of it. It’s actually not going to be a big thing.

Riese: That’s the other thing, The L Word, especially the Gen Q, and that’s what I said after I watched it the first time I was like, the other thing is though we had an episode where Sophie was visiting Dani and at the end, Dani was like, “What if you stayed the night?” And then she was like, nothing. We had an episode where we don’t even know what happened after that.

Analyssa: Right. Or that one where Shane left the bar and told Finley to lock up and then Finley just left at some point. The bar could have gotten robbed, we have no idea. There’s all these little things that—

Riese: Cherie Jaffe, they constantly are doing that where they have a big thing at the end and then it just disappears.

Analyssa: In the unknowable amount of time between episodes.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well…

Riese: And that’s the episode.

Analyssa: I hate to end on that note.

Drew: And that’s the episode.

Analyssa: I feel like I got most of my thoughts out about this episode in that last section. I think the Carrie and Finley stuff is really tough and especially the Bette stuff was really tough. And I don’t really know where they’re going to take it or why it feels necessary to them.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: But it started off really strong, really good sex scene at the beginning and some good smooches, which I love.

Drew: Yeah. I would say that there are things that I’m like, “N-n-n,” and there’s also things that I don’t have issues with how they’re being handled as much as they’re just painful. And then there’s things I have issues with how they’re being handled. And then there’s stuff that’s fun. Did I like this episode? That’s a complicated question.

Riese: I don’t know. I don’t think I did.

Drew: Did I think it was a pretty good episode? Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree. I thought it was well done, well-made.

Riese: Mostly.

Drew: Mostly.

Analyssa: But it was a little bit like, not what I ordered.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: It felt like if a pretty good dish at a restaurant came out, but you were like, well, this isn’t really what I wanted though. That’s sort of how that felt to me.

Drew: Yeah. But I really like Gigi and Dani together. And I really like Dani talking about how some people don’t get to express their emotions the same way as other people do. And I really liked that.

Analyssa: And I liked Shane and Tess touching faces finally.

Riese: In the rain.

Analyssa: In the rain. Okay. One realistic thing about this is people in Los Angeles do make a big deal about it raining. And that’s what happened in The L Word too. But look, next week, we’re going to get a third event.

Drew: Oh right. Because the book launch.

Analyssa: It’s the book launch.

Riese: Oh yeah. We are. That’s going to be so thrilling, I’m so excited.

Analyssa: That’ll be fun.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason why we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Analyssa: My word is lottery.

Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Riese: Because you won it?

Analyssa: Because I feel like I won it with this episode. No, absolutely not. Because that could have been another fundraiser idea, lottery tickets, anything other than poker.

Riese: That’s illegal, but—

Analyssa: Will next week’s event be fun or not fun? We’ve had two and one of each. So, kind of a lottery situation. Will I win the lottery next week or not?

Drew: Yeah. Mine is lunch, because I think my feelings about this episode are similar to my feelings about lunch.

Riese: Lunch is my least favorite meal.

Analyssa: Lunch is my least favorite meal too.

Riese: I’m really annoyed by it.

Drew: It’s not my go-to meal, but usually, the snack aspect of lunch I really enjoy. If I’m having—

Riese: Yeah. Lunch is a series of snacks.

Drew: Right. But there’s usually the main snack, sometimes I’m iffy on, but then if I’m also like, oh but I also had chips or cookies, that’s the Gigi and Dani. And yes, I did also think of lunch and go, how am I going to justify it? Because I can’t have another episode where I can’t think of an L-word, that’s so embarrassing.

Analyssa: Yeah. Riese’s is—

Drew: And I can’t prepare ahead of time. I simply have too much else going on in my life.

Analyssa: Riese’s this week is lactose intolerant because she’s never said it before. No, go ahead. What is it?

Riese: Lactose intolerant.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Has Riese ever done lactose intolerant?

Drew: No. But I’m curious to hear why from this episode?

Riese: Because of the light show, I think, at the museum. And also because of the scenes with driving and eyebrows.

Analyssa: You’re right.

Drew: Maybe I don’t know what the word lactose intolerant means.

Riese: There was all this stuff about poker and Carrie.

Drew: And all this makes you want to have almond milk.

Riese: Bathroom sex. And that always brings me back to lactose intolerant.

Drew: Ah, yes.

Analyssa: I didn’t think she was going to land the plane, but you know what? She did, she did it, she landed it.

Riese: It’s like that movie where the guy landed the plane upside down. Did you see that movie?

Analyssa: Sully?

Drew: Sully? Or Flight?

Riese: No. The one where Denzel Washington was—

Drew: Flight, yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Well, you guys should see it.

Drew: No, you shouldn’t, it’s a really bad movie.

Riese: Better than Into the Wild.

Drew: There’s 40 better Denzel Washington movies you should watch before you watch Flight. Anyways…

Analyssa: Let’s call it.

Drew: Let’s call it.

Riese: That’s the end of it.

“To L and Back” Gen Q Podcast Episode 206: Love Shack

There are few things I love more in this world than a karaoke night. This dates back to college when I stumbled into a karaoke night during an ill-advised Wednesday night out before finals week, and found a KJ playing saxophone while a regular named Rapper John performed “Gangnam Style.” And (sadly, devastatingly) there is nothing that seems more ill-advised right now, in the middle of the ongoing pandemic, than being in a sweaty room full of strangers who are yelling their faces off to “Mr. Brightside.” But luckily for all of us, there is no Covid in the world of The L Word and so there is nothing stressful about being at a bar, singing karaoke – except of course, for all the drama that could ensue.

And ensue it does! Eyes are made across the bar, fights are had, drinks are sent. Big romantic gestures are made, and it cannot be said enough that, through it all, Gigi wears an absolutely absurd sweater. What a gift

SHOW NOTES

  • Riese’s recap for Episode 206: Love Shack
  • There are only 21 lesbian bars left, and Drew went to two of them this very summer! Check out the Lesbian Bar Project!
  • Leisha Haley was in The Murmurs and Uh Huh Her.
  • She also was in a movie called All Over Me, and that movie was in the TV Team’s Top 10 Coming of Age Lesbian or Bisexual Films list, and Riese’s Top 10 LGBTQ movies list
  • More than one person in this episode could benefit from this advice on how to end something casual
  • For fun, as a treat, please read Kayla’s speculation on which songs everyone in The L Word would sing at karaoke
  • And for another treat, her essay on the power of weekly karaoke nights
  • What’s everyone’s favorite karaoke song? I always go for “Man, I Feel Like a Woman”

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew!

Analyssa: I’m Analyssa!

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is—

Drew, Analyssa, and Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q!

Riese: Oh my God. We did it!

Drew: We did it all at the same time, because this is such a special episode. We are all sitting in the same room for the first time in so long.

Analyssa: A momentous occasion.

Riese: And this is exciting for most of us, and for all of you at home, but it’s mostly exciting for Carol.

Drew: Carol’s sitting in my lap right now.

Analyssa: Carol loves having friends.

Riese: Carol is so excited.

Drew: I was, as I’ve maybe talked about, I was in Cincinnati for most of the summer, and then I was in New York, and then I was in Toronto, and then I was in Philly, and that was first. I don’t know, I was traveling around. And then I drove from New York to LA with a couple of friends and got in yesterday. And I’m so happy to be back in LA. I do want to shout out a couple of people who I met at a lesbian bar in Denver: Darren, Shar, Jasmine, Sophia, it was so nice meeting you all. And I wish that LA had a bar like that. It’s pretty wild that more cities don’t have lesbian bars and that there’s only 21 that exists according to—

Analyssa: Is it 21 now? I thought it was… The last number I knew was 26.

Drew: According to the Lesbian Bar Project, it’s 21.

Riese: I thought it was five.

Drew: No, it’s 21. I mean, so the one in Columbus was the other one I went to — Columbus, Ohio, and that’s also a pizza place.

Riese: Which one is that? Is that Slammers?

Drew: That’s Slammers.

Riese: That’s convenient.

Drew: Yeah. So it’s a pizza place/lesbian bar. I didn’t get to really enjoy that one as much because we got there right as it was closing. So we sort of got to go in, see it, and then they were like, “We’re not serving you a drink.” And we’re like, “That’s cool. We came in at closing.”

Analyssa: I lived in Columbus for two weeks and I did not go to Slammers, but I wanted to. Maybe if I lived there for three weeks, I would have made it.

Drew: It’s okay.

Riese: So speaking of lesbian bars.

Drew: Should we get into this episode?

Riese: Yes, let’s do it! There’s so much to talk about.

Drew: So this is Gen Q episode 206. It is directed by Katrelle N. Kindred, who’s directed episodes of Good Trouble and The Chi, as well as some shorts. It is written by Marja-Lewis Ryan, who you know, and it’s also written by Lisa Quintela, who — this is her first TV writing job, but previously was an entertainment and culture writer for Entertainment Weekly, among other places. And also she has a BFA from Tisch, so I do feel like this person and I have a lot in common, and that’s exciting to me as someone who someday would love to write for Generation Q. The other person who wrote on this episode was Julia Hannafin. And this is also her first TV writing job and is otherwise a fiction writer. This is pretty common where new or staff writers will have their first credit on an episode with the show runner. That’s sort of a pretty normal first episode credit situation.

Riese: So that’s how it’ll be for me when…

Drew: Yes, when you’re also writing. We’ll be the two — it’ll be the two of us and Marja writing the Christmas episode.

Analyssa: In many ways, Riese is like the showrunner of this podcast, and Drew and I originally were like staff writers.

Drew: Yeah, exactly.

Riese: Yeah, it was kind of like that.

Analyssa: Now we keep getting episodes. We’ve really been crushing.

Drew: Look at us. Oh, and this episode’s called “Love Shack,” which we know why, because—

Riese: Yeah. That’s what they sang at karaoke.

Drew: Well, I was going to say—

Riese: Sorry, spoiler.

Drew: I was going to say we’re going to get there, but yeah.

Riese: Everyone already knows.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: They’ve already seen it.

Drew: Yes. That’s true. Great. Should we get into the episode?

Riese: Let’s get into it.

Analyssa: Let’s do it.

Drew: I’m just so happy. I’m so happy to be doing this episode. This is — I’m just going to start up at the top, and I know we should save this for the end, but I think this is my favorite episode of The L Word, definitely Generation Q, top three ever.

Riese: Wow!

Analyssa: Wow. Big.

Drew: I don’t know. I’m a big fan. I don’t know. I have not talked to Riese or Analyssa about it at all. So I don’t know if we’re on the same page, but this is the energy I’m bringing into this.

Riese: I did text you guys, “Oh, I love this episode,” after I saw it. And that was three weeks before you guys saw it.

Analyssa: Yeah. I also loved it, but I think potentially Drew was just excited to be watching it in the land where it’s set, of Los Angeles.

Drew: That’s true. I am really excited to be back in LA.

Analyssa: And you know who’s also excited about being in LA is The L Word: Generation Q, because they started this episode with the longest “We’re in LA,” and not just we’re in LA, but we’re in Sunset Junction. We’re on the east side. This is not the WeHo of the original L word. Also the saga cell, the 30 second at the beginning tells you what happened on the last episode, felt eternal. That’s not really about the recap, but I was just like—

Drew: There’s a lot to cap. We cover all the storylines this episode, so we really had to like…

Riese: Well, except Angie.

Drew: Oh, that’s true.

Analyssa: Yeah. Well, because it was a party at a bar. She’s under age.

Riese: That’s a good point. She couldn’t, God, you’re so smart.

Drew: So, we start with Micah and Dani on a run together, very LA activity.

Analyssa: Not relatable to me, but—

Drew: I mean me neither, but.

Analyssa: In theory, I guess.

Drew: In theory, an LA activity. Do you? You don’t run?

Riese: No.

Drew: None of us are runners here.

Analyssa: Not with friends, especially.

Riese: Yeah, because that would be embarrassing for me because my running is like a speedy walk.

Drew: Got it.

Riese: Yeah. I’m like a mall walker when I run, you know?

Drew: So Dani is talking about getting a dog. It’s just a really nice friendship moment with the two of them. I think it’s something we’ve been asking for for a while, is actually getting to see the dynamic of their friendship, and it’s so fun to see. And it’s just light and it’s fun. And then Micah reveals his secret.

Riese: Which is that he had sex with a woman.

Drew: And?

Riese: And it turns out we were wrong. He was not supposed to be bisexual from the start. That was just something we made up in our heads.

Analyssa: That was just what I believed because he had had sex with Dani, so I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah, he had dated Dani. So I was like, he’s bi, but he’s just dating men because that’s usually what happens with trans men on TV shows.

Drew: Yes. It’s true.

Riese: But I guess he’s not, but now he is.

Analyssa: But now he is.

Riese: Which is great.

Analyssa: And he does reveal to Dani that it’s Sophie’s sister, Maribel. And she has a very funny reaction.

Drew: She’s like, “Was she better than me?” Which is just — it’s so fun.

Riese: It’s cute.

Drew: I just love this whole scene.

Riese: Then he discloses, and I also love this episode, but he discloses that they have not spoken in a week. What? I’m sorry, in what universe? They used to text every day. They have sex and then radio silence for a week?

Analyssa: From both of them?

Drew: Okay. This is my justification of this.

Riese: Oh God. I can’t wait. I can’t wait because there’s no—

Drew: Now I’m in full justification mode because I liked this episode. So now it’s a thing I like. So my interpretation of it, I assume that they texted like right afterwards. Right?

Riese: Ok. So you’re writing, you’re writing it. You’re writing this.

Drew: And then, like, five days pass. Micah would say, “We have not talked for a week.” Like I just feel like my emotional friends would be like, “Oh my God, this person hasn’t talked to me. After we had sex, they’ve been gone for weeks.” And it’s like, “Weeks? How long has it been?” And they’re like, “Six days.” You know? So I think that was my interpretation of it. The L Word isn’t great with time. Look, it’s still The L Word.

Riese: Sophie says later she hasn’t seen Finley in a week. So are they on the same exaggeration schedule?

Drew: I don’t know. I think maybe it could be like a five day, six day situation.

Riese: I just want to say that, if you have sex with your really close friend, who you’ve had a crush on, somebody who we’re talk to all the time—

Analyssa: Someone you call every day, who you call in mild emergencies.

Riese: Who you call in mild emergencies, which just means you had to talk to Bette Porter that day, then — and they don’t talk for a week? I would be dying. I would be completely dead at this point. I would not be on a run. I would be in my bed. I would be—

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I wouldn’t bring this up to Dani as a third point in the thing. So I had sex with a woman. It’s Maribel. She hasn’t texted me. I would have gone into this run being like, “We need to fucking talk.” And as soon as Dani started talking to me about how she’s using her dad’s evil empire to do good in the world, I would have been like, “I have something I need to talk about actually.”

Drew: That is fair. That is fair. I think they just don’t take time very seriously on The L Word, is part of it. And also, no, of course I’d be crazy, but what I got from this—

Riese: Yeah, you’re right. And later their interactions are totally normal and make complete sense. So I think once we get to that.

Drew: I have complaints. It’s not a perfect episode of television. It’s just, I love it so much.

Riese: Yeah, I do. I love it, too.

Drew: So the other thing I love is that — is Dani saying that she has a pseudo sexual friendship with Gigi.

Riese: Yes, perfect.

Drew: That is such a great description of so many things. I just love it so much. And then Micah is saying that they trauma-bonded. It just, everything felt so gay and so real, the way that they were talking about these things. Like, yeah, some of the timing and specifics are a little bit like what? But, it all just felt so gay and real. I was like, “Is this my favorite scene the show’s ever done?” I’m in a great mood today, if you can’t tell. And I just, I was so excited.

Riese: Drew is thriving today!

Drew: I’m in a really good mood, but anyways, we cut to the credits.

Analyssa: Okay. One more thing I want you to say about this scene though, is that it does feel extremely gay even down to the fact that Dani and Micah seem to have forgotten that there are other bars in Los Angeles that they can go to. They’re like, “We must go to Dana’s, and it’s our right.” And like, sure, you must. And it is your right. You should be able to take up space where your ex goes. But also Dani is like, “I could punch Finley. I don’t know where it’ll go.” You could just go to Akbar or any other—

Drew: But in this world of The L Word,, Dana’s—

Riese: This podcast is sponsored by Akbar.

Drew: I love Akbar.

Analyssa: I’ve never been to Akbar.

Riese: I’ve been there once.

Analyssa: Isn’t that where Dani and Sophie met?

Drew: Yes, it is.

Analyssa: So that was a bad example of, she could go somewhere else.

Riese: White Castle, it’s right there on the corner.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: Okay. So the reason why we know that karaoke is at Dana’s is because Alice says it to Sophie, is like, “See you there.” And Sophie mentions that she hasn’t talked to Finley in a week. Also, we should talk about the fact that Alice is in a bubble.

Analyssa: A massive inflatable hamster ball.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, sure. Of course. But I’ll also — another thing is that Alice said that she might ask Tom to go, and Sophie just talked to her like it was completely normal. I was ready for like, “Oh, oh, you’re going to ask a man?” But she was just like, “Oh, cool. When are you going to ask him?” And I was like, wow, this is…

Drew: It’s growth. It’s great.

Riese: Wild.

Analyssa: Not The L Word of yore.

Riese: Right. Well, it’s still, I mean…

Drew: We’ll get there. So then we go to Dana’s, right?

Analyssa: Yeah. And Tess and Finley are setting up for karaoke night, and Tess is like, “Finley, invite Brit,” who is the person that Finley was having sex with last episode.

Drew: And is it the first character on the show that uses they/them pronouns?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Which is exciting. We don’t actually get to spend any time with them.

Analyssa: I guess it must be exciting for them living their life outside the world of The L Word, because they don’t come back.

Riese: It felt like a little clip of, “This is how you can just use they/them pronouns in conversation.” Like a little educational clip for everyone at home to see.

Drew: Something that is wild is that Tess keeps thanking Finley for coming in. And it’s like, you’re having a karaoke night. She’s your employee. She’s your one employee. We do learn that — it’s so silly.

Riese: No one has done worse at their job ever than Finley on this evening.

Analyssa: Unbelievable.

Riese: They have other employees though.

Drew: Yes, they do. We see that. And then Sophie’s there, chaos.

Riese: Alice texted Tom, “thinking of you” when everyone at the table is like…

Sophie: Oh, honey.
Alice: Really? Is that bad? Okay. It’s bad.
Maribel: It’s just so…
Alice: What? Boring? Pathetic? Plain?
Shane: Basic.
Alice: Oh God. Okay.
Sophie: Oh shit. She is here.

Drew: Yeah. Shane tells Sophie no drama.

Analyssa: Shane forgets that she runs a dyke bar, and she’s like, “No one cause drama tonight.”

Riese: I’m like, “Oh, go shove it.”

Analyssa: You’re having a big event at the gay bar? There’s going to be drama.

Drew: I do think that it’s fair of Shane, in part, because she’s like, “I need my star employee, Sarah Finley.”

Riese: To be on top of her game tonight!

Drew: And then I really liked that Alice called Shane a Nana for… That was cute.

Alice: You’re like a nana. No drama.
Shane: Do you want that in your bar?
Alice: No, no, no, no. I totally get it.

Analyssa: I also love that Bette comes in singing.

Alice: Hey!
Bette: [Singing] Hi hi hi!
Alice: Oh!
Bette: I did my vocal warmups in the car.

Analyssa: That was so crazy.

Riese: It was wild. I was like, who are you?

Analyssa: Just some fun for the folks at home.

Riese: Just a little fun for Bette.

Drew: Getting ready for karaoke.

Analyssa: She’s been doing her vocal warmups in the car.

Drew: Yes. And Alice mentions that she’s also trying to bone someone who she works with. It’s just, again, we’re just getting like fun friendship stuff, bonding over inappropriate workplace dynamics. I mean, for Alice, she’s no longer working with Tom as an editor, so I think that is perfectly fine in my book.

Riese: Or in her book.

Analyssa: Nice. Bette is always actively pursuing artists, both on a romantic and professional level. It’s very rare that she’s just doing one version.

Drew: Yeah. There was some discourse in the comments of our post from last week about how Bette is an abusive monster. And I just want to say that… yeah, pretty much. I mean, she’s hot and she’s fun to watch and it’s a soap opera, so I let a lot go. But, yeah, I don’t think anyone thinks that Bette Porter makes great choices overall in her life of this show. The commenter was like, “If this person was a man…” Honestly, if she was a real person and still exactly the same otherwise, she’d be a nightmare and I wouldn’t associate with her. Watching her on a television show, I’m in love with her, and she can do anything she wants.

Analyssa: And sometimes Jennifer Beals comes in singing to us, and you’re like, yeah, let’s go.

Riese: Yeah. Also wearing… I liked her outfit. I like it when people pull off sneakers with suit wear, and they mention that she is not… Shane’s like, “Who are you chasing? I know it’s not Gigi.” So everyone kind of knows that, that has fizzled.

Drew: Yeah. Oh, I just want to note that even at this point in watching the episode, I wrote down, “Is this the best episode ever?”

Riese: Drew, it’s so premature!

Analyssa: Drew loved this. Nothing has happened yet.

Drew: I’m just so happy because this is what I want, I just want them being friends and being gay and being funny and being decently written.

Riese: Then we have a highly erotic—

Analyssa: I was going to say, this is for Riese.

Riese: Cord play, because I fucking love — those moments of that, “are our hands going to touch for a second.” It drives me bananas. So that’s between Sophia and Finley because Sophie’s trying to help her with the cords, because of course Finley doesn’t know how to do anything. And then, Sophie just asks if she’s avoiding her, and Finley’s like, “Nope,” even though she obviously is, and then they sort of linger. So it’s clear that there’s some tension there. There’s some erotic and romantic tension there. There’s something in the air tonight.

Analyssa: Something is happening.

Riese: It’s there.

Drew: Tess walks up, and Finley says that she didn’t wear deodorant.

Riese: Oh yeah. Finley goes into the back to talk to Tess. And she said she didn’t wear deodorant. And that is confusing to me as is why she has a jacket on if she’s hot and also why she has in fact two jackets on if she’s hot.

Drew: Very chaotic energy, as usual.

Riese: And also one is zipped up just this far. It drove me nuts the whole time. Other than that, I love the episode.

Drew: And then Cherie calls Tess. Then back with Bette, Alice and Shane, Shane tells Bette and Alice about Cherie.

Riese: Also when Finley’s back there with Tess, Tess is like, “You should tell Sophie to stop hitting on you if it makes you feel bad.” And Finley’s like, “Oh, okay. I definitely will. Okay. I definitely won’t.” And I was good, good, because by the way, like now I’ve seen this episode, honestly, five times, maybe more than that. But at the — in this moment, when I was watching it for the first time, I was like, Finley’s going to call Brit at any moment. And this is — all of my dreams are going to be dashed. I was very tense, but luckily they didn’t do that.

Analyssa: The one thing I do want to say about what Tess tells Finley is that at first, she gives really good advice, which is to talk to her. And then she gives really bad advice, which is tell her to back off. Why do we have to go in so confrontational? Just say, talk to her actually. That might be the best place to start. Chat about what you both are feeling.

Drew: Tess is dating Cherie Jaffe, so the choice is being made.

Riese: Not for long! So Shane tells her friends that Cherie stopped by. She says nothing happened. They’re both like, “Oh my gosh, Cherie Jaffe?” And I would just like everyone to know it’s Cherie Peroni now. I feel like everyone forgot about season three. She’s been divorced since 2006.

Drew: I know that. But, they didn’t know her as Cherie Peroni. And so would you think that there’s still people… I, when I tell stories about people I went to middle school with who on Facebook I now know are married, I don’t use their new names. I’m like blah, blah, blah, blah.

Analyssa: Well, and the real estate that Cherie Jaffe as Cherie Jaffe probably occupied in their conversations in 2005 is, that’s always going to be Cherie fucking Jaffe to Bette and Alice.

Riese: Absolutely, yeah. And they don’t believe Shane that nothing happened, which is common, I guess. But there’s still that sense that something happened. And then this is when Bette says that there was no connection with Gigi because it wasn’t a meeting of the minds.

Analyssa: They’re so rude about Gigi, these three.

Riese: They are so mean to her!

Analyssa: But I also think that they’re just jaded. They’re just kind of over being at a gay party and doing this stuff with like ex’s of ex’s, and that’s like kind of the sense too, but yeah, Bette is mean about Gigi, and I didn’t like it.

Drew: For sure, Bette is really… And then Bette and Alice complain about Gigi talking about her feelings, which I did think was really funny. I really liked the fact that these people don’t know how to communicate, and this person who does know communicate, they cannot handle being in that. I mean, that’s what happened with Jodi, too. When Jodi came into their lives, it was—

Riese: Everyone was like, “Ugh.”

Drew: It was like, “Who’s this person?

Riese: “Who wants to know what’s happening? That’s so weird.” Yeah, they prefer a submissive Tina. Everyone wanted a Tina. So, Sophie says to Maribel that Finley’s avoiding her for sure. And, then as they look, then they look up and we all see Dani, Gigi, and Micah enter the arena and Gigi is wearing—

Analyssa: The sleeves, a neck of a turtleneck, that’s crucial. My roommate’s dad — remember when those magic scarfs were sort of a big deal? They were a tube of fabric and you can just make them into a sweater, basically, like Y2K type stuff. And like, little Bolero sweaters were kind of a big deal. He used to call them “sweassories,” like sweater accessories, like they’re not a real sweater.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: This, I looked at this and I was like, “That’s a sweassory.”

Riese: Yeah, this is a next-level sweassory.

Analyssa: This is the canonical sweassory in my mind.

Riese: And it’s like, she is there to have a normal night. And I don’t know how anyone who’s there could speak to her and not think, “What happened?”

Analyssa: Every single time—

Riese: Drew’s about to say that it’s her favorite outfit she’s ever seen.

Drew: No, no I am not going to do that, I am not going to do that. What I was going to say is that I really enjoy when hot people wear bad fashion, because I love to be like, “Oh, you are hot enough that you can—”

Riese: That’s true. If I wore that it would be over, over.

Analyssa: I wouldn’t even leave the house. I’d put that on and I’d be like, “Wait, no”

Drew: Gigi walks in in that and I would be like, “That is weird. And also, wow, you still somehow look hot. I’m really impressed by you.” I do think that it’s something that that top tier of hot people can do and I think they should continue to do it because no one else is going to buy those clothes.

Riese: Yeah, yeah.

Analyssa: Every time I took notes about what Gigi was doing in one of these scenes, I talked about a different part, like, “Gigi and her turtleneck are sitting by the stage. Gigi’s balloon sleeves have walked over.”

Riese: Oh my God. Dani looks amazing. She looks like, “You cheated on me and now I’m here.”

Analyssa: There’s a lot of cleavage on display; they really came to show out, which again—

Riese: They came to fly.

Analyssa: This is what it feels like to go to a gay party after a recent breakup, in my experience. Okay, so having seen Micah with her own two eyeballs, Maribel is moved to spill to Sophie because they’re all walking over—

Riese: Or just Micah’s walking over.

Analyssa: Oh yeah.

Riese: Because Gigi takes Dani to the bar and shoots a little glance at Bette and Bette shoots a little glance at her, the “I ghosted you” glance. Bette’s look is, “I ghosted you and I’m not sorry.” And why?

Analyssa: Bette’s glance just says, “Yep.” So then I couldn’t even begin to try to recount this conversation because it’s the most unhinged thing I’ve ever experienced.

Riese: It’s really funny.

Analyssa: But it is very funny. Everyone is really awkward and weird.

Sophie: Micah, you’re here.
Micah: Hi. Yeah, I’m here.
Sophie: Wow, this is just great, this is great, this is just so great.
Micah: Are you being weird? Do you know something?
Sophie: Oh.
Micah: Okay.
Finley: Hi.
Micah: Hi. Hi. Hello, yes. Hi. Okay.
Finley: Let me know if you guys need anything.
Sophie: Well, no, we’re good thank you so much, though. Thank you for asking.
Micah: Okay so, I actually need something, I need you to be nice to Dani tonight.
Finley: Dani’s here.
Micah: She is, yeah, yeah. And could she just have a nice night out? We can all try and be civilized?
Finley: Is she going to punch me in the face again? Be honest.
Micah: She hasn’t been able to rule that out.
Finley: Copy.
Micah: But you’re going to be nice to her, right?
Finley:Yeah, God yeah, of course.
Sophie: Yeah, same.
Micah: Just not, not too nice.
Sophie: Okay, I get it. Everybody’s going to be normal because there’s nothing to be weird about with any of us, right?
Micah: Right.
Sophie: Yeah.
Finley: Right.
Sophie: Yeah.

Riese: And then Sophie pretends to take a phone call on her hand so she can leave them alone to talk. And I do not understand what transpires next.

Drew: Okay, Maribel says that she’s just been busy with work. I think it’s played to be like she’s clearly not been busy with work. She’s clearly being awkward and it clearly makes no sense and she clearly ghosted. That was all, that was my read of the scene.

Riese: But then later she’s upset.

Drew: Well, we’ll get to that. But I think at this moment in time, I’m like, “Oh, she clearly wasn’t just busy with work.” I mean, we all get busy with work, but you’re not busy with work for a whole week after you have sex with your friend.

Riese: Right, so I thought from this scene, for some reason, she’s not interested, which did not make sense to me at all, I didn’t know why she wasn’t interested. I was like, “Did they have really bad sex?” It seemed fine to me.

Analyssa: I kind of kept thinking it was really bad. I was like, “Oh, she doesn’t know how to let Micah down easy.”

Drew: I do agree that the way that this eventually gets handled, that it is the thing about the episode that I think is the most, “Eh.” It doesn’t totally work for me, but I can justify it. But at this point in time, I’m just really happy because Micah and Maribel are having awkward, sort of poorly-written L Word drama and that is sort of what I’ve just been asking for for both of these characters. The fact that we’re getting that there’s all this chaos happening and it’s the same sort of chaos with these two, as opposed to it being like, “Oh, we haven’t talked because when Maribel and I were having sex, we did something with my genitals that I felt bad.” It’s the first time on the show that we’re just — Micah’s part of the drama and in the same space, not with Jose and off somewhere else. It’s like Micah’s at the bar, Micah’s in the drama space and it’s all part of it. And I just think I was so excited about that, that I justified some of the, “Eh.”

Analyssa: Well, it was also at this moment that I was like, “Oh, we’re going to be in the bar the whole episode.” I guess I should have realized that. But something that I simply cannot justify, here’s the thing I’m maddest about in this episode: Bette, Alice, and Shane are going to do a karaoke song and they’ve made a whole to do about how they never sing, and they don’t want to sing, and they don’t know which parts and, “Oh my God, what song has Alice picked?” And they’re grumble, grumble, grumble about it. And then these bitches sing with harmonies.

Riese: Yeah, they kill it.

Analyssa: They have rehearsed. I’m sorry, you cannot tell me that these three people have not rehearsed this number.

Riese: I don’t think they have.

Analyssa: They have. Riese?

Alice: Yeah, you’re in the middle.
Bette: The middle?
Shane: All right, what are we singing?
Alice: You’re the brown hair. You’re the guy.
Shane: Why am I the guy? I’m always the guy.
Bette: Oh my God!
Shane: Oh fuck, seriously?
Bette: Okay, okay, okay.
Alice: Okay.
Shane: I’m the guy?
Bette: Yeah.
Alice: Yes, yes, yes. Ready?
Shane: [Singing] If you see a faded side at the side of the road that says fifteen miles to the—
Alice: [Singing] Love shack! Love shack, yeah yeah!
Bette: I’m headin’ down the Atlanta highway.
Alice and Bette: [Singing] Looking for the love getaway, headed for the love getaway.

Riese: Okay, so first of all, Alice was in The Murmurs and she was in Uh Huh Her, so she’s a professional singer and performer.

Drew: Well, Leisha Hailey was.

Analyssa: Well, not Alice.

Riese: Well, okay, whatever.

Drew: Yes, I was watching and I was like, “Oh, it’s so fun to see Leisha Hailey performing.”

Riese: Yeah, because she’s so good!

Analyssa: I’m not mad that they performed, I’m thrilled that they performed. I wish that they would just be honest as characters. Alice, Bette, and Shane would just be honest and say—

Riese: Come clean about your rehearsal.

Analyssa: “Sometimes we rehearse. Alice makes us fucking rehearse this in Bette’s basement and it’s embarrassing, but we do it.”

Riese: They don’t even rehearse in Glee and they just go.

Drew: I know we want to ignore season six, but we should say that, based on the dance competition, I think it’s clear that these are people who would rehearse and who would whatever.

Analyssa: And I just think, “Own that.” They’re all so like, “Ugh, this is such a silly thing. I can’t believe — Okay. Here’s my routine.” And instead you could just be like, “Yeah, we love karaoke. Let’s just do this one song that we kill every single time.”

Riese: And they killed it.

Analyssa: And they killed it.

Riese: This — it was such joy.

Drew: Yes it was, but I also in keeping with talking about Leisha Haley’s musical performances, I would also just like to mention All Over Me and that she plays a musician in it, it’s an incredible movie, and she has pink hair, and is really cool in it.

Riese: Yeah, it’s a great film. I love it.

Drew: You should watch it. Anyways, yes, they kill “Love Shack.”

Analyssa: So while they’re performing “Love Shack,” everybody gets to make meaningful eye contact with someone or look at somebody longingly.

Riese: They’re not playing the music while they’re filming the dancers in the audience.

Analyssa: No, certainly not.

Riese: When they pan to the crowd, and Finley — no one has ever been happier than they are watching “Love Shack,” which actually makes sense because I was delighted watching them do “Love Shack.” When they put the clip, finally, on YouTube, I’m going to watch it probably five more times. It was so good, it was so cute, it was so fun.

Analyssa: It was really fun.

Riese: But we also get a little dialogue here with Gigi. She says like, “It’s weird how the ego kicks in even when you know you’re not right for someone.” Which I related to strongly, when you know you’re not right for someone, but you still get upset if they don’t like you. And then she asks about Dani.

Drew: That’s interesting, for some reason I didn’t catch that as being about Bette. I thought she was talking to — That makes total sense, that’s really interesting. I missed that line.

Analyssa: And now Tom is here.

Drew: Yes. Oh, Shane makes eye contact with Tess. There is just a lot of eye contact happening.

Analyssa: Bette’s looking at Gigi and Dani. Sophie and Finley are looking at each other. Shane’s watching Tess. No one’s watching Alice, but luckily Tom is here.

Drew: And then Tom arrives and then Bette — it’s interesting to see the way the show hasn’t changed, because Bette’s kind of biphobic.

Riese: She’s like, “I don’t want to think or imagine that” or something.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Oh yeah, I forgot about that. They’re like, “Oh, that’s the guy that Alice wants to…”

Riese: We are seeing, I guess, on television, the things that people say to their best friends that no one else hears, right?

Drew: No, I’m not complaining about it, I thought it was actually interesting to have in contrast with Sophie’s reaction earlier where it wasn’t even like, “Oh, you’re dating a guy.” But she was just like, “Oh my God! Tell me more.” And with Bette, Bette’s still like, “Ugh, I don’t want to have to see that.” It checks out with Bette’s character, it’s all real.

Riese: After Henry.

Drew: You know? #notallmenareHenry.

Riese: I know. I love Tom. And then Bette sees Dani.

Drew: Yes, this is interesting.

Riese: And is thrilled. Honestly, there were moments of this where Bette reminded me of me where normally I’m really bad at talking to literally anybody and then maybe I have one drink and kill it at karaoke, and suddenly I’m like, “I can hang with the kids.”

Analyssa: You’re like, Queen of the bar.

Riese: But only for like 10 minutes, because I’m going to go to an art show and wish I hadn’t had a drink at all.

Analyssa: They miss each other, they’re very excited to see each other. I thought this was about Bette being weird about Dani spending time with Gigi, like it was kind of a power play, but I’m sure there’s some real stuff here. Anyway, Dani tells Bette that she’s working on something for them to work on together. I was like, “Okay?”

Drew: Is it a threesome?

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Is daddy’s company going to sponsor a Black Lives Matter art show?

Analyssa: 100% that’s where it’s going.

Drew: This is really bold — because Gigi and Bette are technically still together.

Riese: Are they?

Drew: I think so because later Dani mentioned something about, “Does everyone cheat?” Because she’s like, “Should I have sex with Gigi?” And so I think as far as she knows, they’re still together — or clearly it’s falling apart — but they’re still together. And she goes up to her former boss who is dating the person who she’s trying to have sex with and is like, “I’m working on a project for us.” It’s bold. I mean, it was hot, but it’s bold.

Riese: There are so many Dani-Bette shippers. I noticed the comments on Showtime’s Instagram, everyone’s always like “Dani and Bette, Dani and Bette!” And I’m like, “I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.”

Drew: No, it’s also the opposite. I mean, maybe they’ll hook up at some point, but—

Riese: I would love that, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

Drew: I don’t think it actually would work very well because I think Dani falls into that exact spot that sort of Gigi does where Dani has less power than Bette, but she’s also not at all a pushover. And so Bette needs someone who either is more powerful than her, like Pippa or Jodi — but also Jodi didn’t work, so we’ll see how it happens with Pippa — or she needs someone who’s really submissive to her. Dani’s exactly the kind of person who she shouldn’t date, but they can have sex.

Riese: So true, yeah, sex is always an option.

Analyssa: Speaking of sex, but not actually really, Shane goes back to the office where everybody has sex at Dana’s.

Riese: The sex room.

Analyssa: The sex room, the sex office.

Riese: The Sexoff. That failed, sorry. Sorry to everyone who’s listening.

Drew: The Sexffice?

Riese: The Sexoffice?

Drew: That sounds like “the orifice.”

Analyssa: Sexoffice sounds like “orifice.”.

Drew: Okay, anyway.

Riese: Sexoffice sounds like a political perspective.

Analyssa: Sexfice might work.

Riese: Like fascist, but you’re also sexy, like a sexy fascist.

Drew: Oh Lord.

Analyssa: Tess reveals that Cherie has dumped her.

Riese: And she blames Shane.

Analyssa: She blames Shane, she’s like, “Something has happened. You did something.”

Riese: And Shane’s like, “I didn’t.”

Analyssa: She’s like, “No, me? I’m just a little cat.”

Riese: “Just a country girl”

Analyssa: But okay, Tess says:

Tess: She said it was messy so she was going to take herself out of the mix.

Analyssa: Which is so clearly code for “Shane told Cherie that she has feelings for Tess.” Tess, you’re smart. I’ve watched you run this bar single-handedly. I know that you can read into this, but she doesn’t, she’s just like ready to be mad at Shane.

Drew: Can I also say something on the record?

Analyssa: Please do. The record is open.

Drew: Someone cannot break up with you who started dating you a week ago. It’s not a breakup. I just want to say, if anyone listening dates me ever.

Riese: Anyone dates anyone ever.

Drew: Anyone ever. I’m saying this for selfish reasons, but I guess for the sake of the world, take this out to your other relationships that don’t involve me.

Riese: Yeah, you’re helping everybody right now, Drew.

Drew: I love to be—

Riese: Of service.

Drew: Yeah. A breakup is when you’re in a relationship and then it ends. A breakup is not when you’re starting up a fling with someone or “I’ve hooked up with someone a couple of times,” or even have gone on some really good dates. It can be disappointing. It can be super disappointing when you have something that feels like it’s new, and fresh, and fun, and happy. Sometimes those are even harder than breakups because you have someone on such a pedestal. And it’s not saying that those things aren’t hard or you don’t deserve to mourn them or to have feelings about them. Sometimes you’re still hung up on someone where you have a brief fling with for a really long time because of whatever they represented to you or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But if you met someone at a bar a week and a half ago, is it?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I guess if you spent every second together, there’ll be something. But has she? No, she’s been at work, we’ve seen her. So it’s not a breakup. She didn’t break up with her.

Riese: It ended.

Drew: She just ended it.

Riese: It ended.

Drew: So it drives me nuts. The amount of times that I’ve had to break up with people who I’ve hooked up with twice, it’s like, Jesus Christ.

Riese: Yeah. I think that her perspective on this relationship has been a little bit confusing from the start. They met at a party, she flirted with Shane, they made out in the back room, then she broke up with her. This is not reality.

Analyssa: Back at the bar, Gigi’s sweater is making eyes at Bette to have a conversation.

Riese: Bette is a cold, cold—

Drew: This is brutal.

Analyssa: This was brutal.

Riese: A cold icicle in the butthole from Bette Porter.

Analyssa: That might be fun for some people, though.

Riese: Oh, actually, yeah, it is. It’s nice. If it’s really hot out, to put ice in someone’s butthole.

Analyssa: I feel like this was just cold icicle through the heart muscle which is always unpleasant, I think.

Riese: Maybe she’s already cold and then she puts her cold icicle in her butt.

Analyssa: I do love that Gigi forces Bette to have this conversation, keeps pressing. And what Gigi doesn’t know is that Bette loves to talk about core values.

Gigi: What went so wrong with us, Bette?
Bette: You really want to talk about this?
Gigi: Yeah. I do.
Bette: Now? Do you? Now.
Gigi: Yeah.
Bette: Okay. I think we both know that we’re not right for each other.
Gigi: I’m curious about your perspective.
Bette: I think I need more.
Gigi: Do you really think there’s someone out there who checks all your boxes, Bette?
Bette: As a matter of fact, I know there is. Goodnight, Gigi.
Gigi: Goodnight.

Analyssa: It’s just so mean.

Riese:It’s so mean.

Drew: It’s so mean.

Analyssa: It’s so dismissive for no reason.

Riese: What?

Drew: Can I say something else on the record for the community?

Riese: Yeah, sure.

Drew: It’s so easy when you’re ending something — which, this is maybe a breakup, I’m still going to call it an ending something — honesty is good, communication is good, but being mean when you are the person who’s ending something is so unnecessary. Someone doesn’t need to actually know what your issues are with them. Because they know that you don’t want to date them and unless it’s something abusive that you want to take on and share and say, but if you think someone isn’t smart enough for you, which is basically what Bette is saying, or cultured enough or whatever, you simply do not need to say that. You can just say, “I just don’t feel it.” You can say, “We don’t have the right chemistry.”

Analyssa: “There is just not a spark.”

Riese: Right. You can have Drew write out for you what you should say to somebody and then you can copy it from your text message and then send it to the person, if you want to. I’m saying hypothetically.

Drew: Hypothetically. I’ve definitely never done that for Riese.

Riese: Hypothetically a person could do that.

Drew: I just think that there’s a way to be honest and clear without insulting someone, because at the end of the day, there’s not an intelligence difference. There’s not even necessarily a culture gap, it is Bette’s taste. The things that Bette values.

Riese: Exactly, it’s Bette’s taste.

Drew: The way that Bette views intelligence. And so that is not actually a value judgment on Gigi at all. And the fact that Bette is so myopic that she would think, “Oh, because I like art and I like to talk about things this way.” Also Bette’s friends don’t know anything about art, so does Bette want to talk about how Alice and Shane are stupid? It’s just so — it’s so mean, and especially when Gigi is being vulnerable to be like, “What happened with us?” And also first, she starts by being like, “We could be fucking in the bathroom.” She takes a swing and it’s just so, so mean to reject someone and then to do this to them. I don’t know. It just was, it just felt so, so cruel.

Riese: It was so cruel.

Drew: And then Gigi’s like, “Do you really think you’re going to find somebody who checks all your boxes?”

Riese: And she’s like, “As a matter of fact, I know I can.” This is how you treat someone who has deeply wronged you, who has cheated on you. Because you date people and it just doesn’t work.

Drew: Yeah, all the time.

Riese: Everyone I’ve dated I still think are great people and many of them I’m friends with because they’re awesome. It just wasn’t there.

Analyssa: Gigi’s only crime is being hot and slightly different than Bette. Okay, cool. I don’t know.

Riese: It’s so mean. And also, especially because Bette went over there. After Pippa, in the last episode, she was texting her, wanting Gigi to come over and do it. Bette kept it going. I think Gigi was not reaching out anymore.

Analyssa: If I’m Gigi and Bette has texted me three times in the last week to come hook up because of unknown reasons and then goes, “I think I can find someone more than you.” Excuse me?

Riese: Can you? Because you called me three times this very week.

Analyssa: The evidence strongly suggests otherwise.

Riese: Strongly suggests otherwise.

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Riese: I’ve never seen Gigi reach out to Bette, ever.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: No, not once.

Riese: Gigi’s already walked out of her house. Bette’s the one who’s called her and was silenced, called her and got a no.

Drew: I think we can, as a podcast and as a community, come to the conclusion that Gigi is better than Bette.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I think, yeah, a classic “for us as lesbians.”

Riese: Absolutely. For us as lesbians… holy shit.

Analyssa: Okay. Anyway, Alice is flirting with Tom at the other end of the bar. The only thing about this is—

Riese: He doesn’t get it.

Analyssa: He does not understand it. He calls her his friend. Everyone on this television show should remove the word “friend” from their vocabulary. It’s only caused problems.

Drew: It felt very realistic to me that this cis straight man who’s very outside the queer community would have this sort of cultural biphobia of being — it’s not malicious, but it is just being like, “Oh, you’re a very famous queer woman. You’re not interested in me.” And that felt really real to me.

Analyssa: Just a couple of chaotic things — Sorry, do you have another thought?

Drew: No, I just was going to say that I think Donald Faison is a really great addition to our lesbian show.

Riese: He’s cute.

Analyssa: I love it, he’s so fun.

Riese: He’s so fun. Now I follow him on Insta.

Drew: Well, that’s nice.

Riese: I might watch Scrubs.

Analyssa: I kind of want to watch Scrubs. I think it’d be fun.

Drew: Zach Braff sucks.

Riese: I know, the problem is Zach Braff.

Analyssa: I know. There are a couple of chaotic things going on at Dana’s that I would like to point out. Number one is everyone is having a conversation at normal human volume while, quote unquote, karaoke is happening. Unrealistic.

Riese: No karaoke.

Analyssa: Number two — yeah, there’s actually no karaoke happening. And there’s a dance floor, which means that this is the weirdest karaoke. They were like, “We’re going to do four songs of karaoke throughout the night. And in between there will be a big dance floor situation.”

Riese: Are we supposed to believe that karaoke is happening? Because the songs in the background were familiar karaoke songs, but I was like, “It sounds like the original.”

Analyssa: Yeah. Am I just to assume that no one’s signed up to sing karaoke?

Drew: Maybe they’re having a really hard time getting people to sing.

Riese: But then Shane said it was a hit.

Analyssa: I’ve just never been to a karaoke bar party, et cetera where the activity is karaoke, but also the dance floor is popping.

Riese: Honestly, this episode cost $15. At the end of the episode, when they showed the people who were the extra actors they had to credit, there were two people.

Drew: It is very hard to do this kind of episode. It is cheaper, but it is also, organizationally, very hard. There were extras, and wrangling those people. And the fact that they didn’t want to add in other people to sing poorly in the background. I’m okay with that.

Riese: I was ready for a drunk lesbian crying and singing.

Drew: That’s true, that could have been like a comedic—

Analyssa: I’m just saying that for all the realism about what it feels like to go to a gay bar, or a gay party—

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair.

Analyssa: There’s not a lot of realism about what it feels like to be at karaoke night event.

Drew: That’s very fair, that’s very fair.

Analyssa: And as a karaoke booster, that’s what I’m here for.

Drew: Yes, I really appreciate you taking on that important role.

Riese: So Dani sits with Gigi.

Analyssa: But first Micah and Dani debrief the Maribel thing.

Riese: Oh okay.

Analyssa: Briefly. And he’s like, “This is what happened. She was really weird. She hates me. I’m going to die alone.”

Drew: Yeah, she said that she had to solve the crisis at the border before they could—

Analyssa: Right. Then Dani’s like, “Well, there’s a guy over there. Go flirt with him, he’s been checking you out all night.” So Micah goes off to do that.

Riese: Do you think this is what lesbians think it’s like to be a gay man? Because this happens to Micah at every bar. They’re always like, “That guy’s been checking you out all night.”

Analyssa: Honestly, I have… Not to be like, “I have gay men friends,” but I do. And I do feel like this happens to them way more frequently than it does to me.

Drew: Yeah, for sure.

Analyssa: And that’s rude because both of them are extremely partnered and guess who’s not? Me. So if anyone wants to check me out at a bar, let me know. Anyway, then—

Drew: Okay this is good.

Analyssa: So Michael goes to flirt with a boy and he’s immediately replaced by Gigi’s sweassory. The turtleneck is up to her chin. I can’t, the profile, it’s so much worse.

Riese: It’s threatening to swallow her head.

Analyssa: It got bigger every time.

Drew: Yeah, it did.

Analyssa: It’s closer and closer to her ears. Okay.

Drew: Sophie sends a drink, which is the first thing Sophie does tonight that made me go, “No.”

Analyssa: Everyone at this bar deserves at least a timeout. Yeah they should all get locked into the Sex Office by themselves for just like half an hour. Everyone is making insane choices.

Riese: Yeah. And also like she already has a drink and also they’re all martini glasses. And I, like Tess, called on Shane earlier tonight and was wrong, but I’m going to call on this show and I’m going to be right. And the thing I’m right about is martini glasses. You can’t just walk around with a martini glass.

Drew: It’s very hard.

Analyssa: Okay. Shane is trying to call Tess because Tess has left and the bar’s immediately crumbling without her. We see no evidence to that, but I just have to believe that that’s true. Hilariously, Tess’s voicemail says, “If you have reached my voicemail, try Dana’s instead.” Which is just a funny detail.

Riese: Yeah, I’m going to make that my voicemail.

Drew: “Try autostraddle.com” instead.

Riese: No, I’m going to say, “Try Dana’s.”

Drew: Oh, that’s good. And Finley is outside practicing her speech to Sophie.

Finley: Hi. Okay, I’m just going to say it again. I love you. I think I’ve always loved you and be with me. Fuck.

Drew: And Shane is just like, “Babe, you got to do your job. We need you.” And then Finley says that she fed the rats already?

Riese: That’s so funny.

Drew: This made me laugh. This is sort of like the last episode with, or two episodes ago. And when it was like, “Oh, Dani took the—'”

Analyssa: The red pepper?

Drew: … the red pepper, I’m like, “This is nonsense, but it made me laugh. So I will accept it.”

Analyssa: And Shane just stands there, “Why did we hire this person?” And again, I agree.

Riese: But also Finley’s little fake speech made me laugh too. When she mentions, she’s like, “Be with me!”

Analyssa: Yeah, she’s going through it. Our girl.

Drew: Speaking of incredible art, like this television episode. We, for the first time in a while, leave and go to Pippa’s student’s art show.

Riese: Right. Pippa who is both in seclusion and teaching at a major university.

Analyssa: Yes. No one’s been able to find her for decades.

Riese: Except for students who are enrolled in her course.

Analyssa: Pippa is like — as she has previously — is like calling Bette out on her shit. She says that it’s kind of inappropriate that she’s here. And Bette is sort of like, “Yeah, I agree.”

Drew: Yeah. But no, Bette’s like, “I’m here for your student who I heard was an early Basquiat.”

Riese: Basquiat, I know.

Drew: Which the show loves to make—

Riese: I was like, “Ugh.”

Drew: The show loves to make references to incredibly famous artists that, I’m like, “I think that Bette would make a little bit.” And sometimes they have niche-er people, but I’m just like. Which it’s also like, “Okay, Bette we know why you’re there, but that’s okay.”

Riese: Yes. I mean, she sticks to her story.

Analyssa: She does.

Riese: She’s committed.

Drew: She sure looks at those students’ art.

Analyssa: She walks around looking at the art without Pippa.

Riese: The new Basquiat, Basquiat Jr. in 30 years, Bette is going to find them in Topanga Canyon and be like, “I was at your first show.”

Drew: She’s going to be like, “Can you stop hitting on me?”

Analyssa: She literally says that later and I was like, “Bette loves to tell someone, ‘I was at your first show.’”

Riese: Yeah. She’s going to be going to the Ohio State Fair and going to the arts section for the 4H competitions — which, by the way, is where you can just see the most amazing art you’ve ever seen in your life. I love State Fair art competitions.

Analyssa: I’ve never been to a state fair art competition.

Riese: Oh really?

Analyssa: But I do love state fairs so let’s talk about that after.

Riese: Okay.

Analyssa: Okay. So back at Dana’s.

Drew: Yeah, this is the unhinged… Okay.

Analyssa: Oh yeah.

Drew: So Micah’s talking to that guy.

Riese: Mirabell just zooms over and is like.

Maribel: Was I an experiment to you?
Micah: What?
Maribel: Just to see what it would be like to sleep with a woman?

Drew: Yeah. We should clarify that — because at first I was like, “Oh, is she talking about disability?” And then it was like, no, she’s just talking about Micah hooking up with a woman. Which I think when the first season of Gen Q, part of being frustrated… I really want it to have nuanced, interesting discussions that reflect my queer community. And I think in the… Whatever, there was a whole pandemic, I think I’ve just been like, “This is a soap opera. It’s created by a cis abled white woman, and that is going to influence it.” And there are obviously, there’s a writer’s room filled with a lot of other people, but there aren’t a lot of trans people, as far as I know, there are no disabled people. I don’t know that for sure. But I was happy that that was the route it went. But I don’t understand why this is her reaction.

Riese: I’m so confused.

Analyssa: This fight doesn’t make any sense.

Riese: Because he’s like, “What?” He’s like, “Wait, you just shot me down.” And she was like, “Oh, I’m sorry, I wasn’t enthusiastic enough for you.” I’m like, “What are you talking about?”

Analyssa: You genuinely said no.

Riese: You genuinely shot him down pretty hard. Not Bette-hard, but hard.

Drew: The reason why this might… Where I landed with this was, Maribel has issues, the way that a lot of the characters have issues and clearly there’s a lot of trust stuff going on. Nothing she’s doing here is any more unhinged than stuff that the other characters have done. It doesn’t—

Riese: I guess, because until now she’s been written as so confident.

Drew: Yeah. But I think we also saw that she said that she had a date with a guy who wasn’t good enough for her. She also, her reaction to Micah. I still have an issue with this scene, but her reaction to Micah. I don’t know why they’re writing her character this way, but it is consistent with the way she reacted when Micah was complaining about Nat and his job. There is something that, I don’t know, certain conflicts that she doesn’t seem to know how to deal with. Or she does turn on him pretty quickly. Which again, I don’t know why that’s how they’re writing her, but it is starting to feel consistent with her character. And I am interested to see sort of like, as it develops to see if it gets justified for me. But this specific moment was the one that made me go most, “Huh?”

Riese: This was the scene that annoyed me the most of the episode.

Analyssa: I agree.

Riese: It’s also funny because they’re apparently… Sophie and her parents, her mom and her grandma are so great. And they were like, “What is wrong with our daughters?”

Analyssa: “They’re always flying off the handle.”

Drew: Maribel also says that this doesn’t feel like Love and Basketball. Which one, obviously wanting your life to be like your favorite romantic movie is not healthy. But two, Love and Basketball is very messy. It takes like—

Riese: Oh really?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I don’t remember it.

Analyssa: I’ve never seen it.

Drew: [Gasps]

Analyssa: I did write ”Love and Basketball ref, did Drew write this?”

Drew: Oh my God, one of my favorite movies of all time.

Riese: I thought it was obviously, and it obviously is a movie they watched together. I thought she was saying that to sort of bring it back down to Earth and then Micah would laugh. But that’s not what happens.

Drew: Oh, okay. But that’s interesting.

Riese: But that’s what I thought. Because that feels like something I would do if there was an awkward thing. I’d be like, “Well, this is nothing like it was on The L Word.” And then someone will be like, “Okay, we’re being silly.”

Drew: No, but maybe that was what she was trying to say, was like, this isn’t Love and Basketball. We can be clear with each other instead of having a complicated years-long—

Riese: Oh I didn’t get that.

Drew: Because the way Love and Basketball— it’s split into four quarters. And each quarter is also a period of their lives and romance. And there’s a lot of back and forth, and a lot of complication. So maybe she was being like, “I a little bit reject you and so you go off and have this whole other romance that’s going to take up all these years of time.” But it is an unreasonable reaction.

Analyssa: I think the way that she said it is, “This is nothing like my favorite romantic movie, Love and Basketball.”

Drew: That was also my initial information. But it doesn’t really make sense in the context of the movie, Love and Basketball.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: But maybe that wasn’t—

Analyssa: Something else that doesn’t make sense is the thing that Sophie and Dani are doing. Which I would like to point out is exactly what I said they would end up doing. Which is this weird in-between thing of we’re friends, but we’re kind of flirting.

Riese: But I kind of hate you.

Analyssa: Dani makes a joke about when she got left at the altar.

Riese: She says that twice in this episode and then Sophie leaves… because we didn’t see it.

Analyssa: Oh right.

Riese: Is she being literal? Did Sophie walk out after that happened?

Drew: I don’t know. I would say that it — I would qualify, even if she didn’t.

Riese: Because I feel like Rachel left Barry at the altar, Shane left Carmen at the altar.

Analyssa: Yeah right. But maybe it’s just the easiest shorthand. There’s not—

Riese: Oh my God.

Analyssa: There’s not a shorthand for saying, “Does this drink make up for you leaving me at the altar?” is easier than saying, “Does this drink make up for the fact that you cheated on me, and then the person you cheated on me with stormed our wedding, and then made a scene at our wedding, and then you left? In a hat, of all things?”

Drew: I really really liked this because it was, Dani was both… They were trying to be friendly, the two of them, but then it was clear that Dani couldn’t help but let her resentments bubble up, which clearly — so it’s like presented in this joking way and it’s like, ah, it’s not.

Analyssa: But it also has a flirty edge to it because they’ve had sex recently. So then they kind of are laughing and touching. And of course Finley sees this, she goes back to the Sex Office to chug a beer. And just an aside, this is not the fastest way to get drunk if the thing that you want is to get drunk.

Riese: Yeah, do a shot.

Analyssa: You’re at a bar. As a sober person I don’t need to encourage Finley to drink more. But I don’t think she’s drinking super well if what her aim is, is to get drunk.

Riese: Yeah. Because she’s just going to feel bloated, but I guess she’s used to drinking a lot of beer.

Analyssa: And she’s just going to burp. It’s not going to feel like anything. And what it shows is that she wants to feel better for having seen Dani and Sophie. And the way to do that is like two back-to-back tequila shots. Not to be like, “Ha, ha I used to be a drunk.” But yeah.

Riese: But yeah, that’s actually just accurate information that you’re sharing with us.

Analyssa: Anyway. They’re in the Sex Office, but they’re not having sex, they’re having fights.

Sophie: Hey, I don’t know what you think you saw out there but that was just.
Finley: Nothing I was just coming out to tell you to not hit on me and then you were hitting on her. So it kind of just cancels the other thing out. Like physics or whatever.
Sophie: Okay. But Dani and I, we’re… I’m just trying.
Finley: It’s none of my business. Okay?
Sophie: We’re done. Okay?
Finley: You can talk to whoever you want. Okay. We’re just friends. Right?
Sophie: Is that what you want?
Finley: Is that a joke? Of course that’s not what I want. I think I’ve been pretty clear about that.
Sophie: All right. Well, you’re fucking someone else the other day. I fucking heard you.
Finley: You know that’s not real.
Sophie: So loud.
Finley: Sophie, God you make it… I’m trying to get over you and you make it fucking impossible.
Sophie: How? How do I do that?
Finley: You asked me to stay so I stayed. Right? Then you asked for space so I gave you space. And anytime I’m near you, I feel something. And it’s like, just, do you feel it? Do you feel it? Or am I fucking crazy?
Sophie: Yes, okay? You’re not crazy.
Finley: Then what the fuck dude?
Sophie: This is, this is hard. This is so fucking hard.

Riese: So it seems as though Sophie has her feelings that she’s still hesitating to take the plunge with Finley.

Analyssa: And Riese I think you’ve been saying this the whole time. She’s like:

Sophie: Nobody thinks that we should be together.

Analyssa: I just want to say she only has two friends. So I don’t know who “everybody” is.

Drew: The whole lesbian community of Los Angeles is talking about it.

Analyssa:I’ve heard no one else’s opinion on this, except Dani who got heartbroken and people who-—

Riese: Her sister.

Analyssa: … And her sister, I guess. But people who Sophie or Finley are telling their side to, and they are reacting to it. No one has an opinion that’s like, “Well, this just wouldn’t work.” Anyway. Whatever.

Riese: Yeah, and Finley’s obviously really sad and it’s just like.

Finley: You’re never going to choose me are you?

Riese: I don’t know, it felt really real and sad.

Drew: I also think that some of it is Sophie. Sophie was with Dani, who is now a CEO and very much had that energy. And I think Sophie in saying, “No one thinks we should be together.” I think that’s also her way of communicating that she has an insecurity about, “People are going to judge me for dating a lesbian labrador retriever.”

Riese: Who doesn’t have her life together, who is a mess on several levels.

Analyssa: It’s a big change in—

Riese: Yeah. But what she doesn’t realize is that no one cares about anyone about themselves.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: At all.

Drew: It’s interesting though this paralleled with Bette and Gigi’s break up. In the sense that like this dynamic of superiority and of cultural cachet of relationships. I don’t know. I just — it’s so interesting to me this idea of… I think it’s fine to like, want to date someone who has similar interests to you or similar ambitions or whatever. But it’s interesting the way that it keeps being framed as this very central issue. Which I don’t know, maybe it is for people, but.

Riese: I think it is.

Analyssa: So then Sophie sees Alice. And I didn’t write it down, but I wrote, “Finally, someone gives her good advice.” So good on Alice.

Alice: You okay?
Sophie: Yeah, I’ve been better. You?
Alice: Well, the whole Tom thing is kind of backfiring.
Sophie: Really? I mean, he’s here.
Alice: Yeah. He said we were great friends, that’s okay. I’d make the first move usually, but the possibility for rejection is like something I can handle right now.
Sophie: Well, you can’t be scared forever.
Alice: I think one more night of crippling fear is okay.
Sophie: Not for me, I don’t think.
Alice: No?
Sophie: No. Finley’s not that bad.
Alice: I know that. I love her.
Sophie: Yeah, so do I.

Riese: But I think honestly, all she needs is Alice’s endorsement.

Analyssa: She needs someone’s endorsement. She needs someone to be like, “Yes, Finley is good. You can do that.” Finley is crying to Shane, in a new surprise, tiny back room of the bar. I don’t think I’ve seen this space before. And Shane is comforting Finley. I think Shane is very good.

Riese: Yeah he’s like, “If you guys like each other, what’s the problem?” You know? And then—

Drew: The question we’re all asking.

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: Right. And she’s like, “Well, I think maybe I fucked it up. Maybe she’s the one and I fucked it up.” And then she’s like, “Ugh and our song is playing.”

Analyssa: Very cute.

Finley: Oh my God.
Sophie: [Singing] Here comes the rush before we touch, come a little closer.
Shane: Well that doesn’t look over to me.
Finley: No, no it doesn’t. Holy shit.
Shane: I got to go somewhere so you’re going to lock up tonight. Okay?
Finley: Yeah, yeah boss. Of course.
Shane: Go get her.
Sophie: [Singing] It’s not just all physical. I’m the type who won’t get oh so critical. So let’s make things physical.

Drew: Riese, do you want to just take this away?

Analyssa: You tell us about this scene, Riese.

Riese: Okay. Well then she’s like… And then Shane’s like, “Oh, it’s your song.” And then Finley realizes, “Oh my God, it’s Sophie singing.” And first of all, as advertised Rosanny is an amazing singer.

Analyssa: Yeah. Come through, Julliard.

Riese: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But she goes out there and Sophie’s singing “Closer.” And before we talk about how sweet it is, we should also talk about how completely inappropriate it is.

Analyssa: Unbelievable.

Riese: Absolutely unhinged. Dani is right there.

Analyssa: They’re all looking in each other’s eyeballs. Sophie is not just singing her and Finley’s song. She’s singing it to Finely.

Riese: To Finley. She, then—

Drew: She says.

Analyssa: And then she—

Riese: Finley.

Analyssa: She puts Finley’s name into the song.

Riese: She adds commentary to the song, which is when Dani loses it. When she’s like.

Sophie: [Singing] All you’re thinking lately — and this is true — is getting underneath me.
Finley: Oh shit.

Analyssa: Yeah. And Dani rightfully storms out. And of course, Gigi and her turtleneck follow, because Gigi loves nothing more than a crisis.

Drew: This is so evil.

Analyssa: It is unbelievably…

Drew: I like… It’s funny because I think people are really quick to be mad at Sophie this season. And I’m not, still, I just find this… I’m like, wow, this is so… I will say this is like a classic of rom coms. Right?

Riese: It is, yeah.

Drew: A classic of the genre is a big grand gesture because these are the people who we care about and this is the relationship we care about. And it’s actually, if you take a step back and look at the action that happens, like interrupting a wedding.

Riese: Boarding a plane full of people that are trying to fly somewhere.

Drew: These are all actions that are actually… It’s why grand, romantic gestures are actually not very romantic usually in my opinion. I don’t really like them. But I think small, personal, romantic gestures are usually better. But I’m not judging Sophie. I’m not, I’m not judging the writer’s room. I’m simply getting glee from the evilness on display and how I know that it’s not actually that bad because Dani’s just going to go fuck Gigi. And so she really wins

Analyssa: Right. Genuinely, their minds. The other thing about this scene is that, and Drew’s point just now that it makes me think of is that TikTok I sent you guys, that’s like Sophie is the Jenny of Gen Q. Sophie is the Bette of The L Word: Gen Q. I wouldn’t map them like this.

Drew: No, no.

Analyssa: But if we’re mapping them like this.

Drew: Right, right.

Riese: There’s no Jenny…

Analyssa: There’s no anyone.

Drew: But I know, I very much agree with what you’re saying.

Analyssa: There’s especially no Jenny. And there is especially, potentially two Bettes. And I know that everybody says Dani is similar to Bette.

Riese: But she’s not. Dani is so righteous.

Analyssa: In the actions that Sophie has taken, there’s some Bette Porter there. Anyway.

Drew: Yeah, I think the same way that Finley is Shane, which she’s not, but I think Sophie would be that’s… If you have to pick someone to be Sophie in the original, I think you’re right.

Riese: But it’s also, I think a pre — because obviously this relation, they’re bros. Their number one activity prior to all of this romance was getting wasted together and riding bikes to the bar. This is going to be a chaotic couple and I can relate to that. I’ve been that chaotic couple and it’s really funny. It’s fun. It’s going to be fun.

Analyssa: It’s going to be fun.

Riese: But, so, aside from the fact that this is completely evil and fucked up to do to Dani. Sophie at least doesn’t say Finley’s name until Dani’s gone. But also where she inserted Finley’s name just, was cringe to me.

Analyssa: I agree, it was really cringey.

Riese: It was so weird. And everyone was cheering for them, obviously.

Drew: Finley’s friend.

Riese: Thank God Dani was gone by that point.

Analyssa: Finley cries.

Riese: Holy fuck.

Analyssa: Sophie cries.

Riese: Yeah, they’re both crying.

Analyssa: It’s sweet and also a secondhand embarrassment. Like the whole time I was like, “Oh God, I like this for you two. But I wish I didn’t have to watch it.” Rosanny Zayas, not only a great voice, but really good annunciation. Someone is classically trained, baby.

Riese: And Finley has the look on her face, I don’t think anyone’s ever done anything for her before, ever in her life.

Analyssa: I mean, I don’t think she’s ever been in a situation where anyone, where she cared deeply about someone and they care deeply about her. It’s never been that.

Riese: I don’t think anyone’s ever given her any gestures of any kind.

Analyssa: No.

Riese: And she’s thrilled by it really.

Analyssa: One thing about, while this song is happening is that Alice is not standing anywhere near Tom. Which is so weird. If you invited someone to a bar—

Riese: He went to go meet ladies for her.

Analyssa: I forgot about that. I was like, ‘Why would you not be standing next to him?” Anyway, Sophie’s rendition of “Closer” inspires her to go walk over to Tom. Great, good.

Drew: I love that. Okay. So then Dani’s outside, tells Gigi she isn’t fine. Obviously. Dani says that these are supposed to be her people. And Gigi’s like, “They still are.” Which is true?

Riese: Is it?

Drew: I think it is true. I still do think that ultimately… Dani knows Bette like Sophie knows Alice. There’s no reason why, eventually… whatever.

Analyssa: I do want to say that the way that Dani freaks out makes it sound like she was having a bad time the whole time. And maybe she was and we didn’t see that. But if I were Dani and I had just stormed out while “Closer” was being sung by my ex and Dani walks for the entirety of this performance by the way. I would be mad that Sophie did that. This is a recurring theme with me and Dani where she gets mad about something. And I’m like, “Yes.” And then the thing she’s mad about is different than what I thought she would be mad about. Which is like, Sophie embarrassed the hell out of her just now. But instead it’s sort of this thing of, I can’t believe I can’t even go to this bar with my people. Which is like, they’re similar, they’re related, but it’s not the thing I would have been super mad about then.

Riese: She’s in a really shitty position because everyone else lives together and they all work with each other. She doesn’t live with any of them. She doesn’t work with any of them, and so she’s on the outside. And so she was clearly the wronged party. I think what is hard for her is that she doesn’t realize to the degree to which no one is thinking about her or caring. That everyone is fine to just go on with their lives.

Drew: They’re all having their own dramas.

Riese: But she feels, and I understand, I’ve been on both sides of this. And it’s like, I understand that she feels like everyone’s thinking about her and talking about her, but she’s wrong. But I know why she feels that way. But also Sophie doing that, I feel like is a very much this trying to make her feel like… And I don’t think Sophie did it on purpose. I don’t think she thought for one fucking second that Dani was in the room and that it would be inappropriate. But like it does, it’s a pretty… But that has a way to make someone feel unwelcome.

Analyssa: And that has its own stink to it. Right? That Sophie would do that without thinking about Dani is like a whole different thing. If it were a Bette thing, where Sophie went up and pointedly sang a song about how Dani was horrible and Finley … You know what I mean? That would be different.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I think Sophie was aware about Dani. I think it was a pointed thing, in the sense of being like, she’s trying to communicate to Finley that, “Dani’s here and I’m going to say in front of Dani that I like you.” Which in her brain—

Analyssa: I wish she hadn’t.

Drew: Yeah. I think in her brain, she’s like, “I have to prove something because Finley is hurt.” And it’s like, “Yeah, but what about … ”

Riese: Oh yeah, that’s true.

Drew: Because I think she has this idea of Dani, that Dani can’t get hurt. Because Dani has a certain energy. I don’t know, it’s interesting to watch this, where Sophie takes on this caring role of being like, “I need to make sure … ” One, she wants to win Finley’s heart, but she also is like, “I want to comfort Finley.”

Analyssa: Also, this is Bette/Tina/Jodi stuff, don’t you think? A little bit?

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Dani asks Gigi to get out of there, very excited to see where that goes. Then we go back and Finley’s dancing.

Riese: I know, and Finley’s so happy.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And they’re so cute.

Analyssa: It’s very cute.

Drew: Micah looks sad.

Analyssa: Micah is a little bit sad and leaves. And then Alice makes her big play to Tom, which I thought was really cute.

Riese: It was.

Analyssa: It was like …

Alice: Do you want to dance with me?
Tom: Yeah? Trying to make somebody jealous? Your wingman is here, let’s do it.
Alice: Hey.
Tom: Hey.
Alice: I want to dance with you.
Tom: Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Alice: Not as friends.
Tom: Oh, shit. Yeah.
Alice: Yeah?
Tom: Yeah, really?
Alice: What do you think?
Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
Alice: Want to do it?
Tom: Yeah.
Alice: Okay.
Tom: I just didn’t think that you…
Alice: Look. Well, now you know what I think.
Tom: Okay. I’m excited.
Alice: You don’t have to talk.
Tom: I’m going to shut the fuck up.

Riese: Okay!

Analyssa: This hot, Hollywood … He was already overwhelmed by how the sets were … There’s just a lot of stuff about Leisha Hailey, and Alice, that would be like, “Um… Me?”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Leisha Hailey has so much chemistry with everyone.

Analyssa: She … Yeah.

Drew: That’s really one of her skills.

Analyssa: It’s great.

Riese: Yeah. And he’s like, “Yeah.” It was so cute.

Analyssa: He was like, “Yeah.” And they’re all dancing to a song that would not be played at this bar, I think. But I’m happy for them.

Riese: I wonder who’s singing it for karaoke?

Analyssa: Yeah. Whose karaoke song choice was this? We once again leave Dana’s, because Shane is going to Tess’s. Everyone’s getting a big gesture moment.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Everyone’s getting their time to shine.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: So Shane is going to Tess’s, and Tess is still mad.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: And is like, “What did you tell Cherie? Why did you… What happened here? You’ve ruined something for me.” Again, something very small, just in this grand scheme of things. But it’s fine.

Riese: Yeah. Well, yeah, Shane wants to confess what she told Cherie, a little bit of what she told Cherie, which is basically to back off.

Analyssa: Because Tess is too good of a person for Cherie’s games, basically.

Drew: Yeah. She’s protective of her.

Analyssa: Yes. And she’s protective of her, she says, because she cares a lot about Tess.

Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Analyssa: And then Tess is like, “Now hold on, what else did you say? Now I can tell that there’s something different happening here. What else did you say?” And Shane doesn’t tell her.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: And they don’t kiss, which I thought they might, in the doorway.

Riese: There’s that charged …

Analyssa: They get really close.

Riese: Yeah. And also, Tess is wearing a great robe.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Which I don’t feel like Shane even commented on.

Analyssa: Yeah, not enough attention paid to the robe.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And then—

Drew: Speaking of people who feel like they’re about to kiss, Bette is with Pippa and they’re bonding over one of Pippa’s students.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: The baby Basquiat?

Drew: Yes. And it’s really … I love this, I love when Bette talks about art, it’s really the best look on her. It’s hot. And then Bette makes another play for signing her, and Pippa eventually says that it would be hard to pass up a real offer. I’m a little bit confused about this.

Riese: What is she talking about?

Analyssa: I was going to say, I don’t think any of us know enough about what’s going on. I couldn’t even comment on if this is correct or not.

Drew: Yeah. My understanding was that she was saying, “I don’t want to sign with the gallery. If you want to, through the gallery, have something that is focusing on just me… ” I don’t know. I’m trying.

Riese: Because she already told her, she already said she would do that.

Drew: Yeah, I’m trying really hard, but I don’t really actually understand how the galleries work.

Analyssa: I thought that Bette had already promised Pippa a gallery show.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I don’t know enough about galleries to understand, but basically Pippa is like, “Do this thing for me, and then I might be enticed.” And Bette’s like, “Bet, okay.”

Riese: All right.

Drew: And if…

Riese: Drew, are artists represented by galleries?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: Is she saying, “Don’t just be my agent, book me show”?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: Maybe?

Drew: If you understand this and are in the art world, please email us at tolandbackcast.com.

Analyssa: Call the hotline.

Drew: No—

Riese: Is that it?

Drew: What is the—

Analyssa: Lauren will tell you the info at the end of the pod. Call the hotline, send us an email.

Drew: Tolandbackcast@gmail.com, that’s what it is, that’s why I was—

Analyssa: What did you say?

Drew: I said, “tolandbackcast.com.”

Analyssa: That’s definitely not right. Okay. I thought we were going to get a sex montage, but we’re not.

Drew: Nope, just…

Analyssa: We’re just going to get Alice doing sexuals with this man.

Drew: Yeah. Tom and Alice have sex. And what I was talking about previously with Tom, I think I wish that this straight sex scene didn’t feel so different. It feels so much like, “This is what it’s like to have sex with a straight man.”

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: That’s how … It didn’t feel that way to you?

Riese: No.

Drew: Oh, okay. Because I was just thinking about the way that the “straight” sex scenes in Vita are, and how they’re just as weird and nuanced and interesting. And I think I wanted a little bit of that. I know that Tom has been framed as being vanilla, so maybe it’s just what makes sense.

Analyssa: I was going to say, I thought it was just, he’s fumbly, but it seems like they like each other and are having a fun time.

Riese: Yeah. I don’t know how much not-vanilla sex we have on the show, even from the queers.

Drew: Well, it’s not even about vanilla, it’s not even about being kinky as much as it’s… We didn’t see Donald Faison’s tongue around Leisha Hailey’s finger or anything.

Riese: Oh, right.

Drew: I’m just saying little moments that are… The show is very, it’s not very kink-heavy, but it’s very heavy with showing… It’s very tongue-heavy, honestly. It’s just very…

Riese: It’s very — it follows kisses.

Drew: Yeah. And it’s very specific. And I think—

Riese: Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: But I should get, because he’s fumbling, it fits his character. I think I just was like, “I’ll be interested as they continue to have sex, if we get any sort of… ” I don’t know, to see how they’re framed and shot. It’s just framed as, I think a little bit maybe Alice being like, “Oh, Alice has been off having all this queer sex, and she missed having this straight sex.” And it’s just, again, that’s not… I don’t think the experience of most bisexual people have like, “Oh, now that you’re having sex with a cis straight man, the sex has to be radically different.” I don’t know. I guess I’m not… I guess I shouldn’t talk, because I’ve never had sex with a cis straight man, but I just… I know it can be radically different. I just think that, at this point in her life, don’t you think Alice has things that she’s into and knows how she wants to be touched? And all these—

Riese: I think I would be like, “Oh, this is going to be really simple.” I would be like, “Okay.”

Analyssa: Great, here we go.

Riese: 100% I would be right where Alice is. I’d just be like, “Oh, it’s there, and we’re going to do this. You’re going to lift me up, you’re going to put me… This is so simple. And now we’re done!”

Analyssa: The rules of it are, from my experience, whence I was doing it…

Riese: Pretty simple.

Analyssa: Really straightforward.

Riese: Straightforward, very straightforward effort.

Analyssa: They don’t have to be always, which I think is Drew’s point.

Drew: Yeah, that’s all I’m saying.

Analyssa: It could be different.

Riese: Yeah. But it really never is, until you are really with somebody.

Analyssa: I was going to say, you’ve got to get really deep in there.

Drew: But also, to be fair… Yeah, I know.

Riese: I think that’s what’s exciting about queer sex, is that there isn’t anything straightforward.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And so previously, from even your first time with someone, there’s a lot of figuring out what you guys want to do together. Whereas with straight men, it’s pretty… Straight cis men, pretty straightforward.

Drew: Yeah, that makes sense. Maribel’s watching Love and Basketball, and so is Micah, but not together.

Analyssa: Shane and Tess are on Shane’s porch talking about the karaoke. And Shane is mad at Alice, sort of lovingly, but still is like, “Alice will never take no for an answer.” And I just… This is what I wanted to say earlier, when we were talking about whether they were good people or not. I don’t think I’ve ever heard Shane say one nice thing about Alice on this television program.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Oh.

Analyssa: At least not in the new iteration.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: She’s always like, “That was Alice’s fault.” Or “Alice is just like that.”

Riese: Well she’s like, “Alice gets on these things.” Was that bad, necessarily?

Analyssa: It’s not really bad, I guess. It’s just this weird, I don’t know… I think that what it’s aiming for is like, “We have this very long lived in friendship. I know the most annoying things about her and I still love her.” And I think it does succeed, but I wish that one time Shane would be like, again, “We did the karaoke thing that Alice makes us rehearse, and it was fun.” That’s all, I don’t think it’s that hard.

Drew: It’s really the karaoke thing for you.

Riese: You want rehearsal content.

Analyssa: I want rehearsal content. I want Shane to be acknowledging that they crushed at karaoke.

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: And it was all because of Alice’s preparations.

Riese: That’s true.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Justice for Alice being a freak. Okay.

Drew: Shane asks Tess to sing, it’s cute. Tess doesn’t sing, but it’s still cute.

Analyssa: And then, Sophie and Finley are home. They’re stumbling through the house, they’re making out. They do not have a conversation about whose bed they’re going to go to, which I was like, “That seems doomed.” And then I was kind of right.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Well, why would they go to Finley’s? It would be like if you guys had sex in your little tool shed.

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: Does she live in a …

Riese: She’s in the back room.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: But crucially, the reason to not have sex in Sophie’s bed is because it used to be Sophie’s and Dani’s, which is what Finley brings up.

Riese: Yeah. But she’s right, they have to get over that.

Drew: Wait. But Dani took the red pepper, but not the bed?

Analyssa: Maybe she was so offended by Sophie having sex ever, that she was like, “I can’t have this bed that we had sex in.” I buy that.

Drew: No, I believe that she didn’t use the bed. I just would imagine that she would have taken the bed and thrown it in the trash.

Analyssa: Right. The way that she did all of the other furniture, which is what we discussed that last time, and then I got silenced. Anyway…

Riese: They are so excited to finally be doing it. And they also have a lot to catch up on, for example.

Analyssa: There’s a lot of apologies flying back and forth.

Riese: Yeah. We also get some clips from the trailer, that we’ve been waiting for. The “I’m scared” the “I’m not going to be so scared anymore, it’s you and me.”

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: And also, she says that she was going to go to Kansas City with Finley, which Finley… Obviously that was not even remotely on her radar, because also Sophie really wasn’t invited to Kansas.

Drew: Yeah. She was like, “Oh right. When you ran to the airport, at the end of the first season.”

Analyssa: “When I was sitting on the plane and then you ran to the airport and I had no idea? Got it.”

Riese: Right. Yeah, that backstory was for us, and I appreciated it. Because I did feel like that’s where she was going.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And not just because we did a whole diagram of the entire airport, ourselves, on a map with string.

Analyssa: Do you think that she… We don’t need to get into this, but I just want to say, that… We don’t need to get into this, but I just do want to say that, as a person of Kansas City experience, tickets from Los Angeles to Kansas City are not cheap.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: So if she was planning on going to Kansas City, did she buy a ticket? How far did we get in the planning to go?

Riese: Maybe she bought a ticket?

Analyssa: You would probably fly Southwest, which is a totally different terminal of LAX, than wherever Dani was flying, for Hawaiian airlines. I’m just saying.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I know that they’re not writing for the audience of me, who is the LA lesbian of Kansas City experience, but they could be.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: They could have asked me, I could have told them a whole bunch of stuff about this.

Riese: Yeah. They could have just DM’d you about it.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Anyway.

Drew: Then, we go to Gigi and Dani.

Analyssa: The oddest button of all time, in my opinion.

Drew: Eating ice cream. Oh, I was obsessed with this, as we’ve established. They’re eating ice cream, they’re talking, and then…

Analyssa: Gigi says…

Gigi: They’ve changed.
Dani: What?
Gigi: I told you I’d let you know if my feelings for you changed, and they have. They’ve changed.

Analyssa: As though anyone would have any context for what that means.

Drew: This is incredible. It’s incredible, I love it.

Analyssa: And Dani’s like—

Riese: Didn’t you know immediately?

Analyssa: No!

Riese: Did you?

Drew: Yeah, but—

Riese: I for sure did.

Drew: Yes. But I get why Dani would be like, “What?” I get what Dani was thinking—

Analyssa: Yeah, as a human person.

Drew: But I knew what she meant.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That is so unhinged to me.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And then she goes, “But I think it’s a game.” Because then Dani goes… And then she said, I also want to throw in that Gigi says that, “They’ve changed.” And then seductively licks her ice cream cone. I do want that-

Riese: She has sex with her spoon. It’s far more kinky than what Alice and Tom were doing.

Drew: Yes, very much. And then, Dani’s like, “What’s changed?” She’s like, “My feelings.” And then she walks away and Dani looks overwhelmed and I was obsessed. I loved it. I love Gigi.

Analyssa: Dani is stunned in a way that I was like, “That I liked. Great work there.”

Riese: Gigi is a little bit crazy though, yeah?

Analyssa: She is kind of crazy.

Drew: Oh, yeah. But that is an asset, not a…

Analyssa: No one on this show is “normal.” Angie.

Riese: I feel like the most level-headed person on this show is Shane.

Drew: Yeah, it’s really interesting.

Analyssa: Which is such a…

Drew: But this is such a fucking Shane thing to do, this fuckboy thing to do, where you present yourself as being so level-headed but your actions continuously are shitty.

Analyssa: But this season, I don’t think her actions have been shitty.

Riese: Yeah, who has she hooked up with?

Analyssa: Last season for sure.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Oh, and she does say to Tess…

Drew: Yeah, I guess that’s true. I don’t really blame her for the whole thing with Lena waithe.

Analyssa: She is like — Oh right. I forgot about that.

Drew: I don’t really blame her for that, the writing was just bad.

Riese: Yeah, that was a terribly written — Everything about that was fucked up.

Analyssa: Everything was bad in that. She does apologize to, or not apologize, but she’s like “Tess, I know that I screwed you over by having sex with your girlfriend.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So that’s nice too, there’s—

Riese: But were they even girlfriends? Maybe they just met the weekend before.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And Tess was like, “Lena broke up with me because of you.” And Shane was like…

Analyssa: “I didn’t know you guys were together.”

Riese: Because Lena was like, “We broke up.” That’s what Lena told Shane.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But it still wasn’t okay.

Drew: Yeah. Well, and that’s the episode.

Analyssa:

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: Oh, you guys.

Drew: Did we like it?!

Riese: Let’s start with Drew.

Drew: I loved it so much. I just… I know it’s not perfect. I know there’s still some things here and there that I’m like “Hmm.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: But I just — I had so much fun watching it. And the things that usually bother me about the show weren’t really present, and so many things I wanted were there, so many things I wanted — Even though the Micah/Maribel stuff felt a little weird, it’s so what I wanted for this character since episode one.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: And I’m just like — There’s just so much fun stuff. And everyone was hot, and it was chaotic. And I miss Gay Astrology and I miss those sorts of nights. And yeah, I really loved it. Now, who knows, revisiting it, if I will keep it up in that top tier of L Word episodes, but I really would be surprised if it wasn’t my favorite episode of Gen Q, at least up until this point. Who knows, maybe they’re just going to hit a stride and everything’s going to be great?

Riese: I guess it probably is my favorite episode. What was my favorite before this? Oh, the one where they had the threesome.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Oh yeah, that’s a good one.

Drew: We love a party.

Analyssa: Which is the thing — I also really loved this episode, and I think the thing that is most fun for The L Word. And I think in the original, this happens too, but less around big events, is having everyone connected over one thing.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: I’m thinking of the text tree of The L Word, when things ripple through the cast, that is always fun. And that’s sort of what this felt like.

Riese: Yeah. And I think they’ve really set up more ongoing romantic storylines that involve existing characters, than I think ever before.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: They’ve really just put everyone into the cesspool, there’s no outside.

Analyssa: Right. It’s not—

Drew: Just Tom.

Riese: Yeah, Tom is the only interloper.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Everyone else was there all along. And everybody has feelings about all of these relationships.

Drew: Yeah, it’s really fun.

Riese: Having Gigi date both Bette and Dani? Bold. And I salute it.

Drew: Yeah, it’s really bold. I really love it. I love Gigi so much.

Analyssa: And she’s dated Nat and hooked up with Alice.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Gigi, I love you.

Riese: Yeah. I can’t wait until we find out what happened to the rest of her shirt.

Analyssa: Do you think in the next episode she’s going to be wearing just the—

Riese: A dickey.

Analyssa: Cleavage down to tucked in, that’s it?

Riese: Yeah, it’s going to be just the—

Analyssa: I guess that’s like a strapless top, but sweater version.

Riese: Yeah. Which I think is very cool for Fall.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: How’d you guys feel about the development of Sophie and Finley’s relationship?

Drew: Other than it being pure evil, how it was done, I’m excited that they’re together. I like them together. I’m excited that that’s where we’re moving towards.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: You’re excited.

Riese: Oh, I’m just curious, because you let me talk about that scene, so I—

Analyssa: Oh, I love a karaoke scene as a romantic gesture, like in Gilmore Girls.

Riese: Do you think that Sophie and Alice should start a band?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yes. Very much so.

Riese: I think so too.

Analyssa: That could be a fun after-work activity for them.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Because Alice obviously has free time.

Analyssa: Maybe that should be their next segment.

Riese: Oh yeah.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: “Let’s start a band.”

Analyssa: Instead of historical lesbians, it’s like—

Riese: Everyday queer heroes.

Drew: I wonder if Alice ever sings on her show.

Riese: Oh yeah, she should.

Analyssa: That’s interesting, she should.

Riese: Rosie would sing on her show. Ellen danced.

Analyssa: If the writers of the Alice show are listening to this, we have some pitches.

Riese: Yeah, we have some ideas for segments.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here… Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Drew: Mine is really more of a phrase, but it’s “Let’s do this.” Because the energy that I want… I’m like, I love this episode. And now you’re doing things the way I want them. And let’s just keep this rolling. Obviously, every episode won’t be a fun karaoke episode, but some of the ways that things are improving in the way that the writing is and the storylines, et cetera. Let’s just keep going. Let’s just make The L Word this fun soap opera that we can scream about, and enjoy these beautiful evil characters.

Analyssa: Mine is “Lady Gaga” because I think that’s a great karaoke choice.

Riese: That’s a good thing. Mine is, “Lactose intolerant.”

Drew: You do that one a lot.

Analyssa: I was going to say, I think you’ve that one already.

Riese: What? Huh? No.

Drew: You could say “Landslide,” another great karaoke choice.

Riese: This is the first time I’ve said “Lactose intolerant.”

Analyssa: Great.

Drew: Oh, “Landslide.”

Analyssa: You can say “lactose intolerant” and for this episode, it’s because Dani and Gigi are eating ice cream.

Drew: Are you intolerant to Gigi being hot with an ice cream?

Riese: No, I think everyone should make love to a plastic spoon at least once in their lifetime.

Drew: Yeah. It really does it for me. I feel like some people—

Riese: Okay, I’ll say, “Lavender” because that’s a pretentious flavor of ice cream that probably Gigi would order.

Drew: Yeah. I see that.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Well, I’m going to go get some lavender ice cream, and hope that I run into Gigi.

Riese: That’s so cute, you guys.

Drew: Thanks.

Riese: I am going to love Carol.

“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 205: Lobsters, Too

Oh baby, the boys are back in town! And of course by “the boys” I mean “Cherrie Jaffe” and by “back in town” I mean “standing in front of Shane, causing chaos.” Yes, it turns out that Tess’s new girlfriend of one week that prevented her from kissing Shane back last episode is none other than Cherie “rank little love nest” Peroni (nee Jaffe). She was summoned by all that remembering of the past that our friends were engaging in last week, and she’s here to keep Tess and Shane from kissing any time in the near future!

Speaking of affairs, Finley is attempting to get over Sophie this week by getting under someone else. Also getting under each other are Micah and Maribel! Riese is thrilled. Not getting any action this week is Alice, who is busy crying over Nat and then bonding with Tom over lobsters. And finally, let’s all start the Jordan Hull Emmy campaign right now, everybody in?

SHOW NOTES

  • Riese’s recap for Episode 205
  • I just think this headline is very funny: Is a Pony a Baby Horse? A Physical and Emotional Comparison
  • Max told us what he knew about lobsters in The L Word 3×03
  • If Bette Porter ever decided to go to solo therapy, we think CORE is an important thing to bring up.
  • I can’t find the first instance of Autostraddle using “Parking Lot of No Return” to describe the end of Erica Hahn’s time on Grey’s Anatomy, but here’s a list of best gay moments from Grey’s anyway.
  • I skimmed this medical paper, and it looks like actually in California, donors as young as 15 can donate a kidney with parental permission! Best of luck to Angie with that.
  • Every Cherie Jaffe sex scene can be revisited in this list, and the vampire episode too!
  • I won’t link it because the quality is terrible but if anyone wants a link to a cut of all the When Harry Met Sally couple interviews….hmu

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew!

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa!

Riese: And I’m Riese!

Drew: And this is…

Drew, Analyssa, and Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q edition!

Drew: Yay! We all did it.

Riese: We all did it.

Analyssa: We all said the right words, but I don’t know that we did them at the right time.

Riese: I don’t know that I said the right words.

Analyssa: I think you did say the right words.

Riese: Oh, yeah? Well, we’re off to a great start, then.

Drew: I think we are. We’re all just hanging in there, in this big gay world.

Riese: Sorry, Carol.

Drew: Let out a scream, wherever you’re listening.

Riese: Can you see Carol’s tiny little paws?

Drew: Aww, hi Carol.

Analyssa: Carol wants in the podcast so bad.

Riese: Carol, what do you think about Cherie Jaffe?

Drew: This episode is 2.05, Lobsters, comma, Too. As you’ll remember, Lobsters was an episode in the original series.

Riese: Yes, it was the only episode in the original series that dealt with the class conflict.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). This is directed by Sarah Pia Anderson, who you may remember from last week, “Lake House,” she also directed, and it’s written by Nancy C. Mejía, who wrote on the first season, as well as Vida, the objectively best show of all time. So, exciting stuff there.

Analyssa: Is “Lobsters” the one where Max argues with them at dinner?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Where Max is like…

Max: I know something interesting about lobsters.
The rest of the group: What?
Max: And you don’t have to put a lid on the pot when you cook female lobsters.

Drew: Yeah. I was, I think, going into this episode expecting…

Riese: Max?

Drew: No, I was maybe… I don’t know what I was expecting, maybe something more… I mean, maybe we can get into it, but I’m wondering why this episode was called “Lobsters, Too.” I mean, I know why it was called Lobsters, but—

Riese: Right. I got really nervous there for a second, that you had watched the wrong episode, and that I was going to have set up this mic stand all over again.

Analyssa: A pretty clear reason why it’s called Lobsters, but I…

Drew: No, no, no. No, no, no. I know that. I mean, in keeping… I mean we’ve discussed that, potentially, a lot of the writing staff has not recently seen the original series and would not remember the names of earlier episodes, but I was expecting there to be a call-back to that episode of The L Word, and instead it was just like, “Oh, there are lobsters in this episode.”

Riese: Right, yeah. They should have lobsters in every episode, just little lobsters crawling into the screen, like, “I’m a lobster,” you know what I mean? Just for fun. Because they don’t have a lot of animals. They could probably use some more animals. A few lobsters, maybe a giraffe or something.

Drew: Ooh, that’d be fun.

Riese: These are, again, free ideas, free ideas that I just generate here, and I’m giving them out.

Analyssa: And as we know from Riese’s free ideas, these will be incorporated into next season.

Riese: Absolutely.

Analyssa: She’s got a good track record.

Riese: They’re joining the circus.

Drew: Yeah, Maybe Micah and Maribel can—

Riese: Adopt?

Drew: …ride some giraffes, or adopt a giraffe. Yeah, adopt a giraffe.

Riese: Or a dragon.

Drew: Ooh, a dragon?

Riese: Yeah. People love dragons. There’s that song, “Puff the Magic Dragon.”

Analyssa: Great point. I, and everyone, loved Game of Thrones, which famously had dragons in it.

Riese: Correct.

Analyssa: I didn’t know until two days ago that a pony is not just a baby horse.

Riese: What is it?

Analyssa: It’s like a type of horse. Did you guys know that?

Drew: I think I did know that.

Analyssa: I was at a friend’s birthday barbecue outside, and I don’t know how we got talking about this, but someone said something about a pony, and I was like, “Yeah, but then it grows up to be a horse,” and they were like, “No, that’s not what a pony is.” And everyone in the circle, except me, knew this, and I was like, “I don’t think Drew and Riese know this,” and I felt like I would be among my people here.

Riese: What do you call a baby horse?

Analyssa: A foal. F-O-A-L.

Riese: I thought that was what you called a baby… Oh no, that’s a fawn. So ponies are like, small horses?

Analyssa: The way I understand it is like, how a Collie is a type of dog, a pony is a type of horse.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Oh. So maybe Carol’s a pony.

Drew: The pony of the dog world. Yeah. Should we get into this episode?

Riese: Yeah, sure.

Analyssa: Now that everyone knows…

Riese: … what a pony is?

Analyssa: … the nouns for baby animals, let’s get into the episode.

Drew: Well, we start with Finley puking, which I think we all could have predicted.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Then she drinks a beer, which I think we also could have predicted.

Riese: Yeah. That’s a sad state of affairs.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s not my favorite thing to open on. I think Finley’s sobriety is coming and going, and it makes me nervous for her.

Riese: Yeah. I agree. It makes me nervous for her.

Analyssa: And Sophie would agree with us also.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. And Sophie’s like, “I’m sorry for being dishonest, I actually…” Or like, “I was dishonest with you. I actually went there to see Dani,” and Finley’s like…

Finley: I know.

Riese: And Sophie, for some reason, buys it, that Finley’s okay with it.

Drew: Yeah. I think she wants to. I think we’ve learned this about Sophie, that if she wants to believe something, she can believe it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Then she also says that Finley is a good friend, which is complicated to say at this moment.

Riese: I felt like she didn’t mean to emphasize, like, “You’re my friend, not someone I’m dating.” Probably in like an hour, she’ll be like, “Oh, fuck, that probably sounded like this,” but by then, it will be too late, and Finley will already be eight beers deep.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Did either of you see that TikTok where it’s a girl going back and forth, pretending that she’s asking someone out on a date, but it’s really oblique, and it’s like, “Well maybe if you… If… If…” And it finally gets to them being like, “Yes, we are flirting,” and then at the end, the girl goes, “Okay, bye, bestie.”

Drew: Yes, I did see that.

Riese: I didn’t. I’m stuck on school lunch TikTok.

Analyssa: School lunch TikTok?

Riese: Or not school lunch, mothers packing lunches for their children.

Analyssa: Oh. Those are kind of satisfying, though.

Riese: Yeah, it is. They have these little compartments, and I’m just like, “Wow. I haven’t put this much care into making a meal for myself, maybe ever.”

Analyssa: I get a lot of Disney adult content—

Riese: Oh, I get that too.

Analyssa: … which is not really what I want, but I kind of watch them, so I guess they got me.

Riese: Yeah. They’re like, “Myths about being a Disney adult.” And I’m like, “Tell me more.”

Analyssa: And you’re like, “Yeah, I will listen to what the myths are. I don’t know. Go ahead. Sure.” Okay.

Drew: Speaking of Disney adults, Bette has Gigi. Can you imagine if that was…? I have forgiven Bette for a lot, but—

Riese: Oh my God, what if Gigi was a Disney adult?

Analyssa: Who do we think in The L Word cast is a Disney adult?

Riese: Ooh, good question.

Drew: Wait, the character or the cast member?

Riese: Character. Micah.

Drew: Maybe.

Riese: I think Micah could be a secret Disney adult.

Drew: I think Nat.

Riese: Oh, Nat could. Yeah.

Analyssa: I could see Alice really turning up for gay days at Disney. Don’t you think?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: A perfect time to wear an insanely-colored jumpsuit. Okay. We’re off topic. Sorry.

Drew: Yeah. Gigi is still in her bed, and Bette is there, and is just out of bed working, and I feel like if I was at Gigi’s place, I… I might be working, but I would work in bed next to beautiful Gigi.

Analyssa: Bette is so over this, though.

Drew: So over it.

Riese: Yeah. Gigi is like, “Do you want to talk about our fight?” And Bette’s like…

Bette: Not unless you need to.

Riese: Then she’s like, “By the way, I’m hanging out with someone later.” And this part I was very grateful for, because in the preview, in the trailer, they have it cut weird, so she’s like, “I want to let you know that later today I’m hanging out… I’m seeing Dani,” but the way it’s cut in the trailer, I was like, “This is not a full sentence. They obviously spliced it together.” And I confirmed in this scene that indeed it was not a full sentence. She said, “I’m seeing someone later,” and then Bette was like…

Bette: That was fast.

Drew: And she’s like, “No, I’m just seeing Dani,” which I’m like, “Oh, just? Okay.” But then Gigi whispers in Bette’s ear…

Gigi: Because you can tell me how you really feel.
Bette: I just did.

Riese: Ooh. This reminded me of the worst part of me in past relationships. I saw myself in this picture and I didn’t like it.

Drew: Yeah. I feel like I also have a hard time showing my feelings, but if Gigi whispered that in my ear, I’d become a Cancer. I think it’d be pretty immediate.

Riese: I’m fine sharing my feelings. I just… I’ve had past relationships where I was criticized for my intense focus on the laptop and disinterest in anyone attempting to distract me from the work I was engaged in. But I have grown past that now.

Drew: I think being focused on your work is one thing. It’s the using it as an excuse to not actually talk about the fight you had…

Analyssa: I also think Bette doesn’t ever want anyone to be like, “Hey, this happened. Should we talk about this?” She wants to only talk about things when she wants to talk about it, and I also think that she’s in the stage of a relationship…. This is something I reckon — this was my, “I’m in this photo and I don’t like it,” where she has already decided that she doesn’t want to be doing this anymore. So literally anything Gigi does, like… Drew, I agree that I would be like, “Ooh, fun,” but that’s because I’m not at the point that Bette is in a relationship with Gigi, and she has just… Anything Gigi said, she would have been like, “No, get out of my face. Don’t even come near me. This is not what I want to be doing.” And more importantly, she has two shiny new toys, which are, number one, Tina’s back in town, and number two, Pippa Pascal is being mean to her at dinner. Both of those are way more exciting to her than Gigi.

Riese: Yeah. Even though Gigi’s wearing a red silk robe.

Analyssa: And they’re in this beautiful loft. Just get back into bed. Whatever.

Drew: Speaking of people who aren’t dating the right person, we go over to Tess and Shane, and we learn that Tess started dating this person, or Tess met the person who she’s dating, last week? What?

Riese: Yeah. At a party, she met… What? She can’t… That’s… What? You’re not seeing someone.

Drew: Like, what? I just like… and also, yeah, kiss Shane. Why are you being like, “Oh, I can’t kiss you. I’m in a relationship.” Like, no, you’re not. You met an older woman at a party last weekend. Who among us hasn’t? Take it easy.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And then she’s bringing the person to meet Shane. We can stop saying “This person.” It’s Cherie Jaffe.

Tess: So, Cherie, this is Shane. Shane, this is Cherie.
Shane: Cherie.
Cherie: We’ve actually met before.
Tess: Of course you have.
Finley: Finley!

Riese: It’s Cherie fucking Jaffe!

Drew: You all watched the episode. You know.

Analyssa: It’s Cherie Jaffe.

Riese: First of all, wow. Second of all, oh my God. Third of all, fuck.

Drew: Yeah. Pretty much. Pretty much.

Riese: Is there anyone…? Actually, I was about to be like, “Is there anyone that would be more of a stab in Shane’s heart than Cherie Jaffe?” Then I realized, yes there is, and that would be Carmen, probably followed by Molly, and then Cherie Jaffe.

Drew: Yeah, I screamed, and I’m currently staying with a friend, and their roommates were here, and my friend was not here, and I screamed, and I heard them laugh. I was laughed at because of this.

Riese: And Tess introduces them, and Cherie’s like, “Oh, we’ve met.” Mm-hmm (affirmative). And then Tess is like, “Oh, of course you have,” because the last thing she wants is to be directly connected on the chart through her new Hollywood Hills girlfriend.

Drew: So goofy, so goofy.

Analyssa: Her date of one week.

Riese: Yeah. Her one-week relationship might be spoiled by whatever history Cherie might have with Shane.

Drew: Yeah. My favorite part of this was when Finley introduced herself. Just great clueless Finley moment.

Analyssa: Finley just being in the background of all of these conversations furthers my theory of this being the most insane workplace.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Never any schedule, and you will always be hearing gossip about Shane and Tess, just anytime you’re on shift.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Her reintroduction means a lot to me personally, since it was Shane and Cherie Jaffe’s relationship that made me the queer person than I am today.

Drew: That’s really beautiful.

Analyssa: That is beautiful.

Riese: Thank you so much.

Drew: Speaking of older blonde women that could ruin my life, Alice is talking to Tom. He’s congratulating her, and gives her a pen, because her book is adored by the publisher.

Analyssa: She wrote a book in like two days.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: He buys her a fancy pen. She writes him a sweet note and they’re going to hang out.

Drew: It’s really nice. I like these two together.

Riese: Yeah. They want to keep hanging out even though their editorial relationship is over. I wonder why. Maybe they want to bone.

Drew: I think that might be it.

Riese: Speaking of men, it’s time to go to jail.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). One of The L Word’s favorite places.

Riese: No one’s jumping in to talk about this scene, because no one cares.

Drew: Yeah. Dani’s like, “Am I here as your daughter? As your spin doctor?” And then Dani is the CEO now, because some of the paperwork she signed… I don’t know. If my dad was that guy, I would read the things before I signed them.

Analyssa: I feel like it’s a personality trait of Dani’s to read…

Drew: Yeah, I don’t buy this.

Analyssa: She’s like, “Oh my God, you tricked me. You put a paper that said I would be CEO in front of me to sign.” It’s like, “Yeah, weren’t you reading all those documents? What was happening when he was handing them to you?”

Drew: Here’s the thing. I’m going to give a little tip to the listener out there. Read things before you sign them. Like, okay, do you have to read all the Apple terms and services before you click on it? No, I think that’s fine. But if you’re going to sign a document, you should read it, unless you have a lawyer who you deeply trust to… But you still should probably read it, honestly.

Analyssa: And Dani’s lawyer would have worked for her dad. Anyway, the whole point is, she has to be CEO of Evil Corporation, Los Angeles.

Riese: Evil Incorporated.

Analyssa: Yeah. Or she gets cut off, she doesn’t have any money, and they just bought her this apartment. It’s a whole thing.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, sometimes you just end up being CEO, and you’re like, “Whoops, I’m the CEO of a major corporation.”

Riese: Relatable. This is so relatable to me personally, where I’m like, “I wasn’t prepared for this.”

Analyssa: They’re in jail currently, and she’s like, “Okay, I will be CEO, but you must tell me every bad crime you’ve done, right here, right now.” It’s like, he can’t talk about that here. At least have him write it down. This is such a horrible move. Whatever. It’s fine. Okay. And also, Gigi drove her here.

Drew: Yeah. She’s thrilled about it though. She’s like, “You’re CEO? Hot.”

Riese: “Girl boss!” I mean, if you’re going to have a difficult conversation with your father in jail, you want Gigi to pick you up. I think we can all agree on that.

Drew: Yeah, for sure.

Analyssa: Gigi didn’t park while she was at the jail. She was just sitting idly in the front. There’s no way that they allow that. They hardly allow that at LAX.

Riese: They definitely don’t allow that at LAX. You have to be constantly on the go.

Analyssa: Gigi’s just been driving loops for the 35 minutes that Dani has been berating her dad. Speaking of functioning family dynamics, it’s family therapy time.

Drew: Oh boy.

Riese: Rosie’s back!

Drew: Yeah. So Carrie and Tina are there with Angie. They’re all waiting on Bette, of course. No surprise there.

Riese: Bette’s always late to therapy.

Drew: Yeah. Sort of her thing.

Analyssa: Bette thinks so little of therapy, it’s stunning that anyone asks her to go to it.

Riese: Can you imagine being Bette’s therapist, though? After she was done with her story, you’d be like, “Wow. And this is your first solo therapy session? How old are you?”

Analyssa: “This is just where we are?”

Riese: “We just got…? Okay. All right.”

Drew: “You keep saying that the only time you cheated was on Tina once 17 years ago, but in your story about getting back together with Tina, I feel like you cheated on a few people.”

Riese: “We also do have video from an art installation called ‘Core,’ which we did get at the…” Anyway, Carrie is not excited about seeing Bette, because she doesn’t like Bette at all.

Drew: Yeah. That’s fair.

Analyssa: I feel like that is fair. She also thinks Bette is still in love with Tina, which is also fair.

Drew: Also fair.

Riese: Yeah. Tina’s like, “No she isn’t.”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Angie also is FaceTiming Jordi from therapy, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Or from waiting.

Drew: And it’s very cute.

Analyssa: It’s really cute. And Jordi is afraid of Bette also, as she should be.

Drew: Yeah. She calls her Ms. Porter, and then when Bette walks in, Jordi says…

Jordi: Love the blazer, Ms. Porter.

Drew: Which I would like on a T-shirt. I would love that on a T-shirt.

Riese: Speaking of blazers, have you noticed that Sophie… This is not speaking of blazers, but we go to a scene with Alice and Sophie. Have you noticed that Sophie is just wearing different types of dark purple plaid flannel shirts? This is like her third… I was trying to make a graphic for the podcast today, and I was like, “Wait, it looks too much like last week’s graphic, because Sophie’s wearing…” It’s not the same shirt, but a very similar shirt, and now today she’s wearing yet another similar shirt.

Drew: Look, sometimes your soon-to-be-marriage falls apart and you just get lazy with fashion. I think that makes sense.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, you know when you break up and you cling to one strong aesthetic, just so you don’t have to think about who you are as a person?

Drew: Yeah, you’re a cartoon character.

Analyssa: Is that relatable to anyone? Riese, I really thought you were going to go from “speaking of blazers” to trailblazers, which is what Sophie wants to do her segment on.

Riese: Oh.

Drew: Oh, wow.

Analyssa: Thank you, guys. She’s pitching this “Everyday queer heroes,” but documentary-style. I don’t know if it will fit into the style of The Alice Show, but I’m excited to see it nonetheless.

Riese: Yeah. This will not be a hit, I can say from the experience of running a website where we all also are charmed and excited and delighted by highlighting real queer heroes and our elders and stuff. It’s not a big…

Drew: Not a big moneymaker.

Riese: Not a big traffic driver, I will say.

Analyssa: In a just world, it would be.

Riese: In a just world, it would be.

Analyssa: As a segment producer for The Alice Show, I feel… Perhaps a different pitch? Okay.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: What I did enjoy was the slide show. I think she got the best of stock photos possible, and those women did look like they could be lesbians, I think.

Analyssa: And they did important jobs.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. They definitely have someone from the military on the slide show. The L Word continues to be really pro-imperialism.

Riese: Pro-military?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: The thing is that LGBTQ equality is doing bad things too.

Drew: That’s a great point. Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s The L Word’s whole thing, is like, “Cheating, imperialism, whatever. We should be able to do it all.”

Riese: Yeah, exactly.

Drew: That’s a really beautiful, really beautiful idea. The one also important thing here is that Alice says that Nat keeps texting her to get back together, and I don’t love that for Nat. I mean, we don’t know, because we don’t get to spend any time with Nat now that she’s not in Alice’s life. She’s just banned to poly island, where…

Analyssa: Yeah, literally the poly parking lot of no return. She just disappeared.

Drew: Yeah, yep. Just cast her out with all the other sluts, you know?

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay. So back in family therapy, this is a whole thing. Okay. First of all, Kayla told Angie about her donor being sick yesterday. The wheels are turning extremely fast. Fine. Okay.

Riese: Well, it wasn’t yesterday, because in that time — somehow Sophie hasn’t seen Finley for a few days, and Alice wrote an entire book.

Analyssa: Right. But then I think in therapy, they say, “yesterday.”

Riese: Oh really?

Analyssa: So you do have to—

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: You do just have to let go of the bounds of time and space in this world and…

Riese: Of course, of course.

Drew: It’s somewhere between a day and six weeks.

Riese: Yeah. I would say I would agree with that. But actually I do feel like what they have been sticking to really well this season is that they seem to make — every episode takes place in a day, but the distance of time for each individual storyline from the last time we saw a day is wildly different. Everyone is on a completely different time space continuum.

Analyssa: We’re kind of in a Westworld situation where all the characters are in different timelines. And sometimes they link up, but not always.

Riese: Exactly. Exactly.

Analyssa: Okay. So Angie clearly wants to find out if she’s a match because Marcus has kidney failure. And something I thought was absurd and also hilarious is Bette is like, “Sure, how do you want to help?” And she’s clearly thinking Angie’s going to run a bake sale at school or something.

Riese: Or send flowers, send an Edible Arrangement, get a Cookies By Design.

Analyssa: Yeah. She’s like, “We could get one of the poker games to donate the pot to his medical treatment.” And Angie’s like, “No.”

Riese: And then Tina’s like, “I think she wants to give a kidney.” And Bette’s like, “A kidney bean soup?” No, Bette’s like, “Absolutely not!! There’ll be no kidneys!!”

Analyssa: Immediately freaks out.

Drew: When Angie’s talking, Micah’s like, “You’re doing a great job.” And I would like to say that every time I have a difficult conversation with my family, if Leo could just be like, “You’re doing a great job,” I think that’d be really nice, so.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Michah’s very good at staying level despite the absolute insanity of this family.

Drew: The chaos, chaos. I was like, “Hey Micah, bet you wish you were working with trans kids now, huh?”

Riese: After this, he’s like, “No more cis women, please.” So Carrie starts to talk and she’s like, “I was adopted,” and Bette loses her mind over that. And she’s like, “Angie’s not adopted. She’s our daughter.” Even as though people who are adopted, whatever, aren’t their daughters? Technically also, Angie was adopted by Bette, but I don’t know. Obviously that wasn’t Carrie meant, which is what we discovered, because Angie quickly removes herself from the situation.

Drew: Yeah. Good for Angie.

Analyssa: And Tina follows her and then the world’s most chaotic combo of Bette, Carrie, and Micah are left in the therapy room.

Riese: Bette switches couches.

Analyssa: She has to get up and pace around, she’s doing a lot of blocking. Micah asks so innocently with the knowledge of someone who hasn’t watched six seasons of The L Word, what Bette’s relationship is to her family, and I cackled. I’ve never experienced a reaction like that. I thought it was absurd.

Riese: Yeah, because she’s so defensive. Carrie is like, “What I meant to say was I was happy to meet my biological mother,” or whatever, “and I would help her.” And then Bette’s like, “Well, not every family is the same,” or something. And then Micah wants the info. And I have to say that until this scene, I didn’t realize that Bette’s mom had left. I had thought she was dead.

Drew: Well, it’s nice that she’s not dead, I guess. A little bit of a different type of trauma thrown in, you know?

Analyssa: Is that like a reveal, do you think?

Riese: I went back and watched this morning, the scenes in which Bette discussed her mother with her father when he was dying. And I realized that they’re actually, they did not say that she died. They said that she left because he cheated on Kit’s mom with Bette’s mom, and then cheated on Bette’s mom with someone else, so Bette’s mom left and was never seen or heard from again, apparently, which is pretty brutal.

Drew: It’s incredibly brutal.

Analyssa: I guess I should be considering that more when I talk about Bette and what she does as a human.

Drew: Yeah, but Bette’s in her fifties. I’m sorry, but yeah, I’m all for being kind to people because of the things they’ve been through. But at a certain point, I mean, look, when Bette said, I don’t remember what this was in response to, but I wrote down this one quote. She says…

Bette: Same way you know you don’t like fucking scallops, Carrie. I tried it once and it wasn’t for me.

Drew: No one can deliver a line like her. It’s still… But this scene was, and I was like, “Oh, wow. I’m really turning on Bette. Bette’s been, this season, has been just really brutal. She’s falling apart.” It reminds me of season… There’s a season of the original series where Bette’s just kind of a nightmare. Is it the one where she’s dating Jodi? Probably, yeah. And I’m like, “It’s like season five.” Season five Bette, yeah, season five Bette is no good.

Riese: What’s funny, so my girlfriend is watching this season of Generation Q. She has no desire to watch season one of Generation Q or one episode of the original series.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: So therefore, all of her perspectives are based solely on this season of television.

Drew: Whoa.

Riese: And she’s like, “Bette is awful and mean. I don’t understand what the thing is with her. Why are people obsessed with her? What’s her deal?” And I’m like, “I guess you’re right.” Has Bette done anything this season that was not kind of, at best, inappropriate?

Drew: No, I don’t think so. She’s sort of having a rough year. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s pretty rough, but Tina’s very nice with Angie. And the only thing is, is that I looked it up and you can’t donate a kidney until you’re 18 anyway, unless you go to Canada. So what’s Angie’s plan here? To go to Canada? Is Marcus Allenwood, the actor, still in Vancouver and she can go to Vancouver because the character’s there are too? What’s the idea here?

Riese: He’s not an actor.

Drew: No, I know. But the original L Word was shot in Vancouver.

Riese: Yeah, but the actor who played him wasn’t an actor.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: He’s a house painter.

Drew: Oh, well, I mean he was an actor because he acted.

Riese: Yeah, this was his one acting role, because they couldn’t find the right guy, and then the AD was like, “This guy’s painting my house…”

Drew: What?

Riese: “And he seems like the…”

Drew: That’s wild.

Analyssa: What do you—?

Riese: “And he seems like he would be good,” and so they literally got their AD’s house painter to play this one role in The L Word, and that…

Drew: So, is he coming back to the new series?

Analyssa: Seriously.

Riese: I don’t know, because his name is Mark Gibson, which how the fuck are you going to find someone named Mark Gibson?

Drew: No, no.

Riese: There’s a million probably, I’m sure. So I don’t know, I’m like, “Are they going to find this guy?” Is he going to be like, “Really guys, again? I’m really just busy painting houses, get off my back.”

Drew: Wow. That’s so interesting.

Analyssa: But maybe he’s retired from painting houses now. That’s an arduous job.

Riese: Oh yeah, it is an arduous job.

Analyssa: Maybe he wants to make a one day guest star paycheck and be back.

Riese: Yeah, that’s true, that would be nice. Maybe they’re going to cast someone else as him.

Drew: Hm.

Analyssa: Imagine. The only other thing is that — besides Drew, your thing about Angie is definitely not old enough to donate a kidney — that wasn’t brought up in therapy was I wish that someone, not even necessarily Micah, but someone had said like, “Maybe it would be healing for Angie to just try.” And I don’t feel like anyone says that at all. It may not work out, but it might be helpful for Angie to follow this down the line. They just keep kind of being like, “But she wants to.” And it’s like, that’s not really… I don’t know, anyway. I just, I don’t know why it bothered me, but I just thought there’s a logical thing to say here, which is, “Yes.” But Angie had just found out something massive about where she comes from and then found out that she could lose him and she might want to try to help. And it might just feel good and not actually be a big deal.

Drew: Right. Yeah. I mean, I think they’re just wanting, I mean, Bette’s just wanting to shut it down because she’s just being anxious and controlling.

Analyssa: Shocking. Okay. So back at Dana’s, AKA Shane’s, AKA Tess’s, Finley is just doing everything she can to make sure Shane gets to spend time with Cherie Jaffe.

Riese: And Shane’s like, “Really, it’s okay.”

Drew: But also, why is Tess encouraging her to sit there, eat? I’m just, the whole thing…

Riese: I think Tess wants to know.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: Tess is like, “What is the deal with you guys? What is this? What’s the story here?”

Drew: Yeah. She’s like, “I’ve been dating this person for a whole week and I’m in love and this is devastating to me.”

Riese: I’ll tell you what though, Shane is Cherie’s root. So it’s kind of, I mean, this story was probably, if they were really dating, which I don’t really think they are, then this story was going to come up within a week or two. You know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah, for sure.

Riese: But she’s like, “How do you know each other?” And Cherie’s like, “She did my hair.” And I was like, “Oh God, really?” But luckily, thank God, Shane was like…

Shane: Come on. We had an affair. An intense, destructive affair. She was married. It did not end well, did it?
Cherie: She was a notorious, irresistible homewrecker.

Riese: One thing that did bother me a little bit about this is that they were kind of acting as though they had not seen each other since their affair ended badly, which is very much not true. Obviously we all remember the pool sex scene from season three. And then also she went to her beach mansion where there was that wild party with crazy extras playing terrible music and cocaine and she couldn’t find her keys and then she crashed a car. You know? Although I guess, probably Cherie doesn’t remember a goddamn minute of that.

Drew: Yeah. There were a lot of drugs.

Riese: But the pool sex, I believe we all remember. And they should also probably remember it. And should have added that to the story they told Tess, because what are you talking about here? You know?

Drew: Yeah. The whole dynamic was very weird.

Riese: Yeah. Because then she’s like, “Now I’m divorced and out,” which she already said. She told Shane that in season three when she came to the salon. Oh right, she’s not Cherie Jaffe anymore, she’s Cherie Peroni.

Analyssa: But now she says she’s aggressively gloriously out of the closet, which I was like, “Okay, great.”

Riese: I was mostly thinking about how she was one of the first people to speak out against Harvey Weinstein and then feels like he tanked her career.

Drew: Mm. Well, I’m glad she’s back on the show. I mean, I’m always happy to see Roseanne Arquette and it’s a joy to see Cherie.

Riese: It is.

Analyssa: All these scenes are really fun and dramatic.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: And there’s more to come because Shane invites Cherie to the poker game.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: And then Tess goes into the back room and is freaking out and then starts talking to Finley. And Finley’s freaking out about Sophie so Tess pivots to talk about those problems. And she tells Finley to find someone that knows her worth and to sort of move on. And look, as a Sinley shipper, I don’t agree with this. But if Finley was my friend, I probably would also give that same advice. I do generally think that when things start messy, they stay messy. Not always, but…

Riese: I thought it was bad advice.

Analyssa: I thought it was bad advice, but here’s why. It’s because Tess is thinking about Shane when she’s giving Finley this advice.

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. That’s fair. That’s fair.

Analyssa: So it has nothing to do with Finley’s situation absolutely at all. And that’s not even a knock against Tess. Finley should have minded her own business because if you walked into the back room and one of your coworkers was screaming “fuck” into an empty room, why on earth would you go, “Okay, so my thing actually…”

Drew: Right, right, right. Totally.

Riese: Right, because Tess wasn’t even listening because Finley was like, “She referred to me as her friend this morning and blah, blah, blah.” And then Tess is like, “Well, she said she just wants to be friends, so listen to her.” And that’s not what Finley said. Finley didn’t say that Sophie said she wanted to be friends, but whatever.

Drew: Right. None of that’s true.

Riese: Back to therapy.

Analyssa: Back to therapy, everyone’s favorite place.

Riese: This would be a great time to give Jordan Hull an Emmy, I think would be.

Drew: She’s great.

Analyssa: I agree. She was acting her butt off.

Drew: Yeah, she’s so good.

Analyssa: She wants a connection to people who look more like her, she says. Angie talks about not looking the same as her mom. And I got really choked up when she said that she did look the same as Kit, or looked more similar to Kit, and doesn’t have Kit anymore. And I feel like they’re making great progress in this therapy session. They’re really getting to the root of why Angie, again, why this might be soothing and healing for Angie or something she wants to do.

Riese: Yeah. I felt like it was also great progress for the show to acknowledge a lot of these things, you know? And also Bette’s response was so Bette. She’s like, “Just because other people might mistake me for white doesn’t mean I don’t know who I am inside.” And Angie’s like, “Right, but the fact that other people mistake you for white and people, when they look at me or they look at Kayla or they look at Kit or they look at Marcus, they’re not going to mistake us for white. It’s a very different way of moving through the world.” And I thought it was really great that they actually addressed that and drew attention to it because I feel like they kind of have shied away from that in the past since season one when there was the girl in the support group that kind of challenged Bette about that as well.

Drew: Yeah. And the way that was framed was that Bette was right. That was how that was framed, so.

Riese: Yeah, and she was wrong.

Drew: Yeah, right, totally. I still just cut — every time they bring up the Kit though. I just, I’m still so not over it.

Riese: Yeah. But it was also great to hear that Angie has found that connection with Kayla, and that it’s been really good for her. So regardless of what happens, it seems like at least they should be able to stay friends, you know?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: The other big update is that while I was crying, so were Bette and Tina and Carrie. And Bette holds Tina’s hand and Carrie sees and makes a face. And then in the parking lot afterwards, Carrie and Tina get into a fight about it. And I think Carrie’s right, I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “I could be number two to Angie, but I’m not going to be number three to Angie and Bette.”

Carrie: Am I always going to be third?
Tina: I have to put Angie first.
Carrie: I know that. You know I know that. I love Angie and I’m fine with second, but third? Is this the way it’s always going to be? Because Tina, I don’t know if you realize it, but you’re always my number one.

Riese: She just doesn’t like Bette, you know? And I can relate to that because my girlfriend doesn’t like Bette either.

Drew: Yeah. I do think that this wasn’t really the time that Carrie needed to be going in on Bette, but I do think that — I agree with Carrie in the sense that what her ultimate point is, but the fact that Tina gets mad at her for being insulting towards Bette in this moment… It’s just like, the thing is, is that part of making Angie number one is reducing tension with Bette. And so I do think that given the seriousness of the conversation that was just happening… is now the time to be like, “Oh, well, your ex-wife’s a real piece of work.” Is that really the time? Could you just have taken a deep breath and called your… Just sometimes I’m like, people need to… I feel this way in my life too, where I’m like, sometimes you just need to call other people. So can Carrie call — who’s Carrie’s best friend? Can Carrie call her best friend and be like, “Oh.”

Riese: Madonna.

Drew: “Tina’s ex-wife is such a nightmare.” It’s like, you don’t say it to the person. I don’t know. It’s like if later it needs to be a longer discussion with your soon-to-be wife about her ex and about the dynamic, have that discussion when tensions aren’t as high. But I don’t think that this was really setting them up for success to be having this conversation right now.

Analyssa: I don’t either, but I don’t think it’s fair that Carrie has to just mediate tension and Bette gets to say whatever she wants. She was mean.

Riese: Yeah, Bette was an asshole.

Drew: No, I know.

Riese: We’re so used to seeing Bette be mean, but if we think about if this is real life, which of course we can’t really think about, when she was like, “Your opinion doesn’t matter.” She was so fucking mean.

Drew: No, she was awful, but Carrie’s not… I just think that it’s not a matter of whether Carrie’s right or Bette’s right. It’s about sometimes even when you’re right, it’s not the time to create a thing. And so it’s like, why do you need to take a Lyft? Just get in the car and people throw little tantrums and I’m just like, “Even when you’re right, don’t throw a tantrum. You’re an adult person. Take a deep breath and deal with the problem later.” I don’t know. That’s my stance.

Analyssa: I’m pro-tantrum.

Riese: I’m also pro-tantrum because I think sometimes things are really upsetting and it’s hard to just wait for a better time.

Drew: I guess.

Riese: And also, I do think Tina should have defended Carrie to Bette and should have stood up for her and not just let Bette walk all over her. And I know that I don’t like Tina, but…

Drew: Yeah. Again, I also think that’s true. I just, I don’t know. I don’t really, I don’t disagree. I just, I do think it’s true that she’s marrying into this family and part of that is having to figure out the dynamics and especially when they’re not around Bette all the time. But I don’t know.

Analyssa: The Bette apologist has logged on.

Drew: I’m not doing that, but I’m not apologizing for Bette. I’m absolutely, it’s more about the fact that I don’t think Angie should have to be the only one in this family unit who’s dealing with everyone’s emotions and managing everyone’s emotions. And so a way that Carrie could help is by not creating conflict and understanding that the reason why Tina’s trying to be a good mom to Angie and that’s taking away from her energy and focus on defending Carrie to Bette. She’s defending Angie from Bette. That’s where her focus is and that’s where it should be. And I think Bette’s obviously in the wrong in all of this and is being horrible, but sometimes your fiance’s ex-wife is horrible and you need to pick your battles and pick when you confront that and talk about that.

Riese: Justice for Carrie.

Analyssa: Same. We’re going to work justice for some character into every single one. Drew, I think that’s logical. I just think

Riese: They’ll all be victims of Bette.

Analyssa: They’re literally every single one has been a Bette victim.

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: We’ve done justice for Gigi, Jodi, and Carrie. Also something we haven’t talked about enough I think, are all of the names on this season that end in I.

Riese: Oh yeah. That is a little bit inappropriate.

Analyssa: There’s a lot of them, I feel like.

Riese: Yeah, it’s—

Analyssa: Gigi, Finley, Sophie, Dani.

Drew: Yeah, sometimes that happens though. I don’t know. All three people I hooked up with in Cincinnati whose names started with B-R, so sometimes name shit is weird. So you never know. Okay. So Sophie’s interviewing some lesbians, some real lesbians. Actually, are they real? Do we know this? Are these two, are they actors, in the sense that — obviously they’re real in the world of the show, but did they find two older lesbians to…

Riese: Tell their true story?

Drew: Tell their real story?

Riese: I feel like they probably did. I’d be surprised—

Drew: You’re probably right.

Riese: I could have looked this up and didn’t, but I do feel like they probably are real.

Drew: Yeah. It’s very corny, but I will allow it.

Analyssa: It’s a little When Harry Met Sally interview, which is sweet. Hilariously, these two women are talking about falling in love during a time when you couldn’t be out and also when their race played a really big role, and the jobs that they could get, and how they lost jobs because they were together and people were talking about it. And Alice and Sophie are just sitting there thinking about Nat and Finley.

Riese: They’re thinking about their white friends. Their girlfriends.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re like, “Oh my God, this is just like me and my girlfriend who broke up because she wanted to be polyamorous in Los Angeles in 2021.” Like, no. And Sophie’s sitting there like, “Oh my God, love prevails. Maybe Finley and I should try.” It’s unhinged. I mean, good for them but I just was watching their faces being like, “You guys, be more respectful please.”

Drew: I know. So funny.

Riese: Speaking of two people falling in love under challenging circumstances, we go to Dani’s new penthouse apartment where she and Gigi are chatting it up like two people who should have sex and get married.

Analyssa: They should smash faces soon.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Also, not to be extremely thirsty, but Dani has really good hands. She’s sitting and her hands are on her legs and I was just like, good for you.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It looks great.

Drew: It’s just like a really good white wine and trauma sesh, you know?

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re just talking, they seem to understand each other. Gigi’s like, “God, aren’t you exhausted doing PR spin all the time?” And Dani’s like, “Yeah. Except when I don’t, I’m evil and I hurt people.” It’s like they’re really getting into who they are as people.

Riese: Yeah. They seem to really understand each other implicitly.

Drew: Yeah. They talk about — Dani says that she always knew Sophie wasn’t right for her on some level. And Gigi’s like, “I used to love like that. But now I’m more interested in learning” from who she’s with. And it’s not really clear. I feel like what I’m getting at is that Gigi is saying basically that she looks for people that are good on paper more than people who make her feel a spark?

Analyssa: I feel like she’s kind of saying “Yes, sort of.” But I don’t think that’s how she would say it. I think she’s, what she means is, “I’ve had that ‘intense, head over heels, give my whole self to it even when I knew parts of it weren’t right’ thing. And now, it’s more important to me to have something that I understand and they understand me and we grow and work together than it is to be like, ‘Oh my God, I have to be devolving into this relationship'” is kind of what it sounded like.

Drew: Yeah. But then Gigi says that she gets bored and moves on and so it does not really… so I think that the vibe that… what’s important is the vibe is like, “Yeah, but the thing I’m doing, isn’t that great. And maybe you are what I should be doing. And by what I should be doing, I mean, who I should be doing.”

Riese: Yeah. Hot.

Drew: And then Dani’s like, “You’re so easy to talk to.” And also is wearing this sort of just wearing a flannel. It’s very adorable. I’m really just watching these two and just like, “Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss.”

Riese: Yeah. Speaking of two people who don’t know where they stand with each other and are talking about other things, but are they really talking about themselves? We go to Dana’s Memorial Tavern where Shane and Tess are having an awkward conversation because Tess gave Finley advice and now Finley met someone who she apparently immediately knew deserved her and would like to skip her shift.

Finley: Check them out. I’m moving on.
Tess: Good. I’m happy for you.
Finley: Right? So you mind if I skip out on my shift? I just want to see where this goes.
Finley’s hook-up: Finley, come on.
Shane: Get the hell out of here. Go.
Finley: Oh, you’re the best. Thank you.

Riese: This is so gay. But also this is bananas. And also at a bar you can’t just go home, you need somebody there.

Analyssa: And there’s only three people who work at this bar, famously. And two of them have potential to hook up with Cherie Jaffe tonight. So, the numbers are low.

Riese: And they spend half their shift in the back room talking to themselves.

Analyssa: It’s a wonder that anything happens here.

Drew: Dana’s is this Italian restaurant in the Lower East Side that I used to go to called Gaia. I think that was like—

Riese: It was called Gay?

Drew: Gaia? But I guess it was basically just Gay. And it had the best paninis ever, but they just opened. It was just this old Italian woman who just opened when she wanted to be open. And so you would go there and usually they wouldn’t be open. And that’s how I feel Dana’s probably is. Like you never know when it’s going to be open.

Riese: Right. But chances are good it’s not.

Analyssa: Or you might get turned away at the door for a private event. Never know.

Drew: Right?

Riese: But Shane’s basically like, “Did you give Finley advice?” And then Tess is like, “This is the advice I gave Finley.” And so they’re fighting about it, but they’re actually fighting about their own relationship, I believe.

Drew: Yeah, I think that might be.

Analyssa: I would agree.

Drew: That’s pretty intuitive there, Riese.

Riese: And why not just, I don’t know—

Drew: Kiss.

Riese: Have a threesome?

Drew: That seems like the obvious, obvious choice.

Riese: Right. Like just do it, you know?

Drew: Though, here’s the thing, I don’t think that Shane should have sex with Cherie Jaffe. I think that will bring up a lot of stuff. I don’t think she should start off her relationship with Tess with a threesome with this person who traumatized her. That feels like, I think it’d be better to be like, “Tess, have your relationship with Cherie. Let that be. Let that happen. It won’t last. I don’t see it lasting. And then when you’re done, we can be in love.” And that seems like the long game move, as opposed to the immediate satisfaction of a threesome.

Riese: I’m just curious where this fits in to your desire to have things be messy and exciting on the TV show?

Drew: Oh no. Obviously I want them to have a threesome on the TV show. I’m talking about the difference between — no, no, no. When I’m talking about what the characters should do, I hope they don’t do what I’m giving them advice to do, you know?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: No, obviously Tess, Shane, and Cherie should have a threesome if I’m talking to the writers. If I’m talking to the real human being Shane McCutcheon, I would say, “Friend. Don’t do this.” You know? Important distinction. Micah’s tired. Micah is very tired after that whirlwind of a therapy session. I mean, did he have other clients today? Who can say?

Riese: I sure hope not. I would have had to clear my schedule for just—

Analyssa: I feel like you have to clear a couple days after. You’re just like, “You know what? I’m just sitting in my office quietly thinking about that.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. So he texts Maribel.

Analyssa: He does say mild emergency, which is insane.

Drew: An insane thing to text. Terrible.

Analyssa: First of all, there’s not really any such thing as a mild emergency. The definition of emergent means it’s an emergency or it’s not, but fine. Whatever.

Riese: It just reminds me of my ex who would be like, “mild emergency” and I knew for sure it was like that she burned a loaf of bread or something. You know?

Analyssa: I had to have a very serious conversation with my mother who would text, “call me ASAP.” All caps. All caps “ASAP.”

Riese: My mom does that too.

Analyssa: And I would call her and she’d be like, “Hi, I haven’t talked to you in a while.” And I’d be like—

Riese: Exactly. Yeah.

Analyssa: That’s literally not what ASAP means. She was like, “I just mean when you can next.”

Riese: Right. She’d be like, “Please give me a call when you have a chance.” Period. And I was like, “Okay, who’s sick?”

Analyssa: Okay, someone is ill. Yeah. I need to start thinking about flying home every time I get one of those texts. And then it’s my mom being like, “What’d you eat for lunch today?” Just text me. Anyway.

Riese: Speaking of people who are in rooms that have tables and chairs in them, Alice is at home and I guess she was going to have Nat over for dinner? And then Nat calls and cancels the dinner? And then Alice breaks a vase and then she starts crying.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And asks Tom to come over.

Drew: Yeah because Tom sends a nice little text. And so she cries. That is what happens in that scene. I don’t feel there’s that much to discuss.

Analyssa: Except that it’s proof of what I said, which is that Alice watched those two lesbians talk about their life story and was like, “I must hang out with my ex, Nat.”

Riese: Yeah and make it work and then she couldn’t. Also, I thought the colors of Alice’s outfit with the colors in her apartment, it was exciting visually. It was a lot of color, which I enjoy.

Drew: Speaking of people who cancel plans, we go back to Micah’s and discover that Maribel canceled a date to be there. And she’s looking very hot. And that is because she was date ready. And maybe this could turn into a date.

Riese: Yeah. And he starts talking. He feels really bad that she skipped a date to be with him right now because it wasn’t… as aforementioned, there’s no such thing as a mild emergency. What he meant to say was, “I spent the day with Bette Porter.” And then he just keeps talking and keeps talking and then Maribel just comes right up to him and they kiss.

Analyssa: And they smooched. They did it.

Riese: And I was like, “Woooooo!” And then he picks her up and takes her upstairs.

Drew: Yeah. It’s a cute… he’s like giving this little very rom com little speech of like “I just needed you here to talk to you about nothing and eat spicy food.” And then kiss. Yeah, it’s a good little moment.

Riese: Yeah. So again, you’re welcome, world.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Next season on The L Word, the giraffes and whatever that Riese suggested in this very episode.

Riese: Speaking of people coming over under certain situations… guises of… and people who are upset and other people are coming over to the home of the upset person, Tom comes over to clean up her little mess and says that she should make a mosaic out of the glass. And she is upset and then he sees the lobsters and he screams.

Alice: There are lobsters.
Tom: I know what they are, but what are they doing in your sink?
Alice: Because I was going to surprise Nat with a fancy dinner!
Tom: Oh.
Alice: She called and canceled on me. She was leaving Brenda’s house. Who’s Brenda, by the way? Oh my God. It really is over. Anyway, I called you because I thought maybe you and I could eat them.
Tom: Alice, I’m deathly allergic to shellfish. There’s no way I’m going to eat these.
Alice: Come on.
Tom: There’s no way. I’m sorry. Especially after all they’ve been through today with you, I feel like they’re emotional support animals. I feel weird eating them.
Alice: Well, if we’re not going to eat them, what are we going to do with them?

Riese: I wanted him to be like, “You know what I learned about lobsters? That when male lobsters are in a styrofoam bucket in Alice’s sink…” You know? But no, they didn’t go there.

Drew: I could go for a lobster roll right now. I feel like I have a lobster roll once every two years. Because they’re just a little too expensive, but they’re very delicious. But they’re very small.

Analyssa: I was at a wedding in Maine two weekends ago and ate so much lobster, it was a little—

Riese: Wow. I was going to say I had a lobster roll in Maine in 2008. But I think that was the most recent.

Drew: I don’t have enough lobster. Lobster’s delicious. Maybe I will.

Analyssa: Yeah, I wish. I was like, “Maybe I should move to Portland, Maine so I can just eat seafood all day.” There’s also a lot of lesbians in Portland, Maine.

Drew: I have heard that.

Analyssa: I don’t know why, but it’s like a spot for us as lesbians.

Riese: For us as lesbians?

Analyssa: Portland, Maine.

Riese: Oh yeah.

Drew: Okay. This is my least favorite scene in this episode.

Analyssa: I knew last week when we recorded the other one, Riese and I knew that you were not going to like this scene because of what you said in the 204 episode, but we’d already seen 205.

Riese: Yeah, did I give you a look when she was talking about it?

Analyssa: Yeah, we both were like, “Well…”

Drew: Yeah. But then when there was that really cute scene on FaceTime earlier, I was like, “Oh, maybe they were giving each other a look because they were like, ‘Drew is going to be so happy next episode’ because they make up for it.” But nope, it’s just inconsistent. Basically Jordi’s talking about being nominated for prom queen and Angie, I just…ugh. It doesn’t check out with their relationship and I mean, I know Jordi is a teenage girl and all that, but even earlier in this episode she’s being supportive and nice. And I just don’t get her being this selfish and this fixated on her phone. The only justification is that she gets really excited because her English teacher likes her posts. And if any of my English teachers ever liked my post, I would also have that reaction, so it’s the only justification I can think of. But I still just… it just feels out of character and feels unnecessary because so easily — I said this last episode — Jordi could just not get it because these are very adult, very serious things that Angie’s going through, so it could easily just be a thing where Jordi just doesn’t quite get it.

Riese: Or know what to say.

Drew: And maybe Angie also, given Angie’s character, it would make sense to be sort of like, “Let’s not talk…” to push Jordi to talk about prom when obviously there’s stuff going on for Angie. But Angie doesn’t want to talk about it. There’s all these other ways that this could’ve gone that would have just made more sense with Jordi’s character. But oh, well.

Analyssa: I did have one read on it, which I guess maybe is a little bit too charitable. That’s always my mantle, my cross to bear.

Drew: Please. Give it to me.

Analyssa: Which is, again, they’re teenagers, but I still do this as an adult sometimes. Where a friend is going through something and Angie has gone to therapy and is clearly feeling about it and Jordi is like, “Okay, but let’s talk about fun stuff,” which does sound kind of callous when you watch it. But I can see a version where you are “the fun friend.” And I know that, Drew you’re right, that they have a lot built up where Angie’s not going to Jordi just for fun. But I can see this attack of like, “What if we just talked about something silly and goofy and got your mind off of it?” Was she that explicit about it? No, but there is a world where that is kind of the thing. But in combo with last episode, Angie being like, “Jordi can’t understand because she’s running for prom court.” It’s not ideal.

Riese: I have a read on the episode, which is that Jordi wants both of Angie’s kidneys for herself.

Drew: Oh no.

Riese: For a spell.

Analyssa: To win prom court, do you think?

Riese: Exactly. Thank you. Exactly. Yeah.

Drew: That sounds like a Buffy plot.

Riese: Teenagers.

Analyssa: That would be an exciting plot line for Jordi. I would love for that to happen actually.

Drew: Can you imagine if all of a sudden there just was like… Jordi’s a witch and…

Riese: Black market, Oregon.

Analyssa: “She started trying to take some of my organs, we’re kind of on the outs. We’ll get back to it.”

Drew: Kind of like the vampire episode. Ugh, what a great episode.

Analyssa: Okay. So, Tom and Alice are on the beach at the lobster release party. LA’s hottest event. I don’t know what he says exactly, but basically Tom is just like, “I wish that I could help you with this, but unfortunately I’m a monogamous man.”

Riese: Oh yeah, he was like, “I’m not a lesbian and I’ve never been in a poly relationship. So I wish that I could give you better advice.” That I have better, whatever. And the whole time I was thinking, “This is so funny.” Because Tina and Henry’s, one of their first dates that we saw was they’re both sitting on the beach and the ocean waves were lapping and they were talking about their feelings, you know? And I was like, “Are they trying to soft launch men into The L Word?” Like a man having a relationship with a bisexual character, but doing it on the beach so we’re all soothed by the ocean waves or whatever?

Analyssa: Yeah. It is soft lighting, everything is very gentle, there’s some ASMR in the background.

Riese: “This is going to be fine guys.”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I like Tom. And this is really cute and I’m all for it. I will say that I think — obviously plenty of bisexual women who are very involved in lesbian community date all sorts of cis men. But I do think that something that is pretty common is dating bisexual men, dating men who have queerness in their life who are surrounded by other queer people. And I think The L Word likes to find this tension of the straightest guy in town and our queer woman. And it’s like, yeah, okay. That happens, and that’s fine. But it would be nice to like… I mean look, it creates conflict because there’s contrast. And I get that, but I also would love to see some more examples of bisexual male representation other than Angus maybe being bi. I mean, I’ve decided that’s canon, but I don’t know if it really is.

Riese: Angus is bi.

Drew: It’s sort of played as a joke in the original, but I decided I’d take it as canon, but I don’t know. You know what I’m saying though? That just, again I don’t have any issue with this storyline specifically. I just, I think it’s interesting that the instinct is always to be like, “Ah, cis men are so different.” And it’s like, “Sort of. Sometimes.” Sometimes they’re also like, oh—

Riese: Not that different.

Drew: Yeah, the reason why this cis man is drawn to this very famous queer woman is because a bunch of his friends are lesbians or because his sister’s trans. I don’t know, you know what I mean? I just find that when cis men are around the community, I don’t think it’s as often where it’s like, “And wow! Queerness is this whole brand new thing to them.” Because I don’t know it just hasn’t been my personal experience of my friends and stuff.

Analyssa: The L Word posits that you, if you are a woman in a mostly lesbian and queer community who wants to date a cis man, you will only meet him at work. So that is part of the problem.

Drew: Right. Or through your kids.

Analyssa: Oh I guess it was through your kids. Yeah. I was thinking of who’s that movie producer that she—?

Drew: Oh yeah.

Riese: Josh.

Drew: Josh.

Riese: Josh, Josh Becker. Josh Becker.

Analyssa: Right?

Drew: Who gets her the movie poster for Catch 22?

Riese: Yeah, their favorite movie.

Drew: Which, I’m still so hung up on that Tina Kennard’s favorite movie is the Mike Nichols adaptation of Catch 22. I think about it. Sometimes I just wake up in the middle of the night and I think, “Tina Kennard’s favorite movie of all time is Catch 22, the 1970 film adaptation.”

Riese: Yeah. I do like though that he is a softy, he’s not like a Tim, you know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah, I like Tom a lot.

Riese: He’s a books guy, you know?

Drew: Yeah I love a books guy.

Analyssa: And he’s goofy.

Riese: Yeah. He’s goofy. I wish… I remember they had him and Finley just get along immediately. And I think having more of that would be cute. Because I think it would be cool if he turned, at least if he fit into the group in a way. That it was like those guys that have the lesbian friends, you know?

Drew: Yeah. And that could still happen. I mean this could be Tom’s entry point and then everyone can be like, “You’re nice. You’re cool. Hang out with us.” I’d love that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The one other thing in this scene is that Alice is like, “I don’t know where it all went wrong.” And Tom says the nice, sort of friend, but sort of flirty thing of like, “Nat’s crazy for not trying to work it out.” And not to be the one Nat defender of The L Word: Gen Q, Nat did try to work it out a little bit, in Nat’s defense. Anyway, these two dodos put the lobsters in the ocean, but they didn’t clip the little rubber bands on their claws.

Alice: Did you take the rubber band thingies off their um…?
Tom: No. Did you? They’re going to die. They’re going to die.
Alice: Oh my God, we have to save them!
Tom: They’re going to die!
Alice: Okay, are they going to be in this area?
Tom: It’s too cold! Can you imagine having your life dependent on the strength of some piece of rubber?
Alice: Isn’t that like the whole idea with condoms?
Tom: Oh yeah, I guess so.

Analyssa: Already these lobsters were doomed, because they were not living in the ocean, whatever. You can’t release… whatever.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Justice for lobsters.

Analyssa: Already they were doomed, but now they’re extra doomed.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: At this point in my notes, I was like, okay, there’s only 10 minutes left, we better do a sex scene montage. We better do a sex scene montage. But we’re not there yet. But that was what I was thinking about in my notes. But …

Riese: Dani’s apartment.

Analyssa: Yeah, we kind of get the precursor to a sex scene montage with these two, which is like, they’re still at Dani’s apartment, they’re still hitting it off. Dani is like…

Dani: Are you hitting on me?
Gigi: No, I mean, I don’t think so.
Dani: Okay, but you’re not sure.
Gigi: I like your energy.
Dani: I don’t know what that means.
Gigi: Sure you do. It’s what you’re feeling right now.

Analyssa: My notes say, “Gigi says, ‘Not yet baby.’” Which is kind of the tone.

Riese: Right. I don’t understand that because I was like, you are, aren’t you?

Analyssa: Aren’t you?

Riese: Like, how are you not? Your body language is flirting.

Drew: Gigi’s a fucking nightmare and I love it. But the fact that Dani was very direct and being like, “Are you hitting on me?” And she was like, “No, I don’t think so.” Her exact words were, “No, I don’t think so.” And it’s like…

Analyssa: Okay, so what are we doing?

Drew: Yeah, you are obviously hitting on her. Like you might not be hitting on her with intention, but like come on, Gigi.

Riese: Although to be fair, I remember when Gigi was first introduced, we were like, “Is she hitting on Alice?” Like has Gigi talked to anyone where we didn’t feel like she was?

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. That’s a good point.

Riese: I think she might just be one of those people, but also this very specifically is …

Analyssa: Right. She has that energy generally, but now they’ve gone on dinner dates. She’s helped Dani unpack her apartment. She’s sat on Dani’s—

Riese: Picked her up from jail.

Analyssa: Picked her up from jail, think you, circled the parking lot for an hour to pick her up from jail. She sat on Dani’s countertop in a way that I think of as very familiar at least if not flirty. So like, what are we doing if not?

Drew: Okay, but what I did like is that, so Gigi says, “I like your energy.” And Dani says, “I don’t know what that means.” So Dani’s really doing a good job at being like… not just asking for clarification one time, but continuing to be like, “No, I want to have an actual conversation about what this dynamic is.” And I’m just like Dani… I predicted this at the start of the season, but Dani without the Sophie relationship, I like. I like Dani. Like I did not like Dani all last season and I’ve liked Dani most of the season. It’s really exciting stuff for me and Dani and our relationship.

Analyssa: This is also a funny thing that I’ve experienced in real life too, where Gigi thinks of herself as talking about feelings and knowing how to talk and communicate. And then as soon as someone else presses her to do it, she’s sort of like, “What do you mean?” She’s used to being in… I guess Nat is maybe an exception to this, but it seems like she’s used to being around people like Bette, where she’s like, “Don’t you have something you want to talk about? Maybe we should talk about it.” And then as soon as someone else is like, “Hey, Gigi, that thing you said was kind of confusing.” She’s like, “What do you mean? I have no idea.”

Drew: Oh, I wrote in my notes, “Obsessed with these queers pretending to do direct communication.”

Riese: Right, exactly.

Drew: Gigi rejects Bette — Bette asks to hang and she says, “No, I can’t.” Which I would like to know that the only reason why Bette texted Gigi is because of the therapy session and Bette wants an emotional support fuck. And good for Gigi… I mean, Gigi doesn’t know that specifically, but good for Gigi for not seeing her because that’s so shitty. God, that’s a real… but yes.

Riese: Speaking of May/December relationships, we then transition back to Dana’s Memorial Tavern where Cherie’s kind of hitting on Shane, like they’re being… I think the thing is with Cherie and Shane is that Cherie was the first person to really break Shane’s heart and to really also get into her heart. So I don’t think that Shane has… I think she would have more self control around Carmen or Molly than she would around Cherie. I feel like they have this sort of weird power imbalance in their relationship and Shane is just not very good at resisting, not falling into the same dynamic they’ve always had. Like it’s very difficult for her to have a different dynamic with Cherie, even though it seems like she was trying really hard earlier. But it seems like she’s trying a little bit less hard now? I can’t tell.

Analyssa: It does seem like she’s still trying to resist, but also it’s very clear from the way Cherie talks to her and to Tess, I think, that the game is afoot. The way that it felt was even if I don’t think this is true, or whatever, Cherie and Tess both are like, “Well, they’re going to bone.” So Tess gets kind of mad, tries to leave, extract herself from the situation. And she goes back to the back room and Cherie follows her and then they have sex in the back room.

Drew: Yeah. And then we cut to Micah and Maribel, and I really enjoy that she’s sort of making fun of him and it felt like their verbal dynamic continued sexually.

Riese: Yeah. Orally.

Drew: Yes, exactly, orally. I don’t like that this was tacked onto the Cherie… it felt a little bit like a weird… because it wasn’t a full sex scene montage. The only people having sex are these two couples. And so I sort of wished that it had just been two separate sex scenes and that the Micah and Maribel scene had happened earlier, like when we were there with them. I don’t know if that hit anyone else weird? It just was like…

Riese: Beggars can’t be choosers.

Drew: No. I maybe wanted it to be longer.

Riese: Yeah. I thought Tess should have stood her ground with Cherie, so I was a little bit thrown off by that. Although then I did like… because I can’t remember specifically, I remember really liking Tess’ bra, skirt situation, whatever it was. And we wouldn’t have gotten to see that otherwise. And I was also like, wow, Cherie is a top now I guess.

Analyssa: That’s what being aggressively and gloriously out will do for you.

Riese: Yeah, exactly. That’s the spirit. But yeah, no, I mean, I see what you mean. But I thought it was just so nice.

Drew: No, it was really nice.

Riese: I hate myself.

Drew: No, it’s good. It’s good. It’s nice for things to be nice. I just… the sex scenes are so intricate and well choreographed. And I wanted just a little bit more time with this one. I did like that it wasn’t made into a whole thing, both from transness or disability, that it wasn’t made into like a whole point of drama. It was just cute and sweet. But also could have a little bit more length to it. I mean look, some sexual experiences don’t last as long as you want them to. And that’s just how it is though. So maybe we’ll get more sex scenes. Maybe these two are going to keep dating and then we’ll get another sex scene. That’s my hope.

Riese: Maybe the next episode will just be them having sex.

Analyssa: Bottle up.

Drew: Love a high concept episode of television.

Analyssa: So back at Bette’s, Bette apologizes, is what my notes say. Does she apologize to Angie or Tina? I don’t remember.

Riese: Her and Tina are there together. Her and Tina are there together so I’m sure Bette is dying of excitement that she’s with her little… she’s with Tina, tiny Tina, her little love Tina.

Analyssa: And they’ve made the decision together that Angie can meet Marcus, which is not exactly what Angie asked for, but okay. Baby steps. We’re taking our wins as we can get them.

Riese: Yeah. And meanwhile, Marcus is like, “I really kind of need the kidney, like pretty soon.”

Analyssa: Yeah, Marcus is like, “It’s really nice to meet you, but what’s the deal with the blood situation?” It’s a lot of tests that you have to go through. My mom gave her kidney to my ex-stepdad when I was in the fifth grade. It’s a lot of stuff. And again, crucially, they wouldn’t do it to a 16-year-old, but that’s okay. Sophie returns home with sushi as a peacemaking offer, grand gesture, somewhere on that spectrum. And everyone in this house is fucking. Finley’s having sex in her room, which is what Sophie hears and sees. No good. But also Micah’s having sex with Sophie’s sister in the same house. Everyone is boning next door to each other and Sophie’s by herself. Like this is just…

Riese: I don’t remember the scene very well, but does she see Maribel’s chair in the living room?

Analyssa: Oh.

Drew: I don’t think they make a thing of that.

Riese: They don’t? So she doesn’t know that she’s listening to her sister? That sucks.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: I do remember… oh, she’s going to know… she’s going to see Mari’s shoes or her chair, or her bag. I thought that that was going to be a point of drama and it’s not yet. But maybe the next episode will open with Sophie waking up the next day and everyone’s just in the kitchen, and she’s like, “What the fuck?”

Riese: And she’s like, “This is … Okay, so what? Last night I was listening to my sister have sex. And also the girl that I like have sex and all of the sushi was just there.” And she looked so excited that she brought home the sushi. But also I was expecting her to see the Finley thing and then also lose it in the same way that Finley lost it thinking about her and Dani. But it seems like she’s just sort of like, “Okay. Right. Of course.”

Drew: I mean, Finley should really close her door, but also Sophie should text ahead of time.

Riese: Exactly, yeah. Sophie should have been like, “Hey, are you going to be home tonight?”

Drew: Yeah, especially if you’re going to buy sushi. But I guess worst case scenario, you just eat more sushi and that’s never a bad thing. And so we end the episode with Cherie coming back to Dana’s after dropping off Tess, to see Shane. Messy, messy, messy person, Cherie Jaffe, now known as Cherie—

Riese: Peroni, I think. I can’t remember exactly.

Drew: Peroni.

Analyssa: The heiress to the Peroni beer fortune?

Drew: Wow.

Riese: I can’t remember what her last… I just remember that it was different. Like when she signed up for her haircut at Wax. But yeah, she’s like, “Are you going to let me in?” Or whatever. And Shane’s like, “Do you think that’s a good idea?” And she’s like, “Don’t make me beg.” And I’m like, oh fuck. Because then Shane has sex with Cherie, which… is that what’s going to happen? I guess Cherie is going to… she’s going to have a big day. Then Shane and Tess are never going to have sex, right?

Drew: Well, I don’t…

Analyssa: What’s Cherie’s game here?

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know. I have no idea, but it’s chaotic and I love it.

Riese: I don’t know what her game is. Tess gave her an out.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know.

Riese: If she really wanted Shane, she could have not gone down on Tess in the back office.

Drew: Yeah. Well, that’s the episode.

Analyssa: That’s the episode.

Drew: How do we feel?

Riese: I actually… I don’t know if I sounded enthusiastic during this recap, but I thought when I was watching this episode, I was like, yeah, they’re playing with fire now.

Drew: Yeah, I enjoyed this one a lot.

Riese: Where I’m like, they’re really getting a lot of things going that are a little bit chaotic and fun and I just really enjoy… I’m really enjoying this season, I think.

Drew: Yeah. I liked this episode.

Analyssa: Yeah. I felt like… I don’t remember if we talked about it last week because Riese and I had seen 204 and 205 together, and Drew, you hadn’t, but they went together in a cool way. And yeah, Riese, like you said, I felt like it was like, okay, it’s time to do some stuff with the things we set up.

Riese: Yeah. It feels like a lot of things are on the brink of happening or not. And I can’t remember any point of last season where I felt that way. Like everything is getting really messy and complicated and interesting. And I mean, bringing back Cherie is a move.

Drew: Yeah, it’s really fun.

Riese: But I liked it. And, I mean, I think that the stuff with Angie and her family was really interesting and good. It was good to see Micah at work, trying… and yeah. I mean obviously, as you know, I really wish Sinley was happening, but I’m waiting.

Drew: All in good time. How many episodes is this season?

Riese: 10. So we’re halfway. This is halfway.

Drew: We’re halfway. I think the season’s going to end with Sinley.

Analyssa: I think so too.

Riese: Was it … who has said that their prediction was that the season’s going to end with Bette Finley-ing Carrie and Tina’s wedding?

Analyssa: I don’t… was that either of us?

Riese: Maybe.

Drew: I hope not.

Analyssa: That is wild.

Drew: Oh lord. I hope not.

Riese: And then Bette would still be like, “I’ve never done anything bad in my entire life.”

Analyssa: “I’ve never done anything selfish, ever.”

Drew: I’m so sorry, Bettina shippers, but I want so badly for us to just move on.

Analyssa: I, for one, am looking forward to 206. Not to move us on so fast, but the karaoke stills are important to me.

Riese: Oh right, that’s true. The karaoke stills. I’ve seen a lot of the pictures. And as we discussed in our little chat in our group text, Gigi has made a fashion choice for next week’s episode that I’m very curious to know more about.

Analyssa: I can’t wait to discuss that fashion choice once I’ve seen it moving around.

Riese: In action.

Drew: Okay, well…

Analyssa: All right, well, another one in the books, friends.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Riese: Okay. I’ll go first. My word is Lorna Doones because they’re a good cookie that I think everybody could enjoy today if you wanted too. You can buy them at any gas station.

Drew: How does that… are we not doing relevant L words anymore?

Riese: Well, I think anyone in the show who wanted to have…

Drew: Oh, sure, sure.

Riese: …a Lorna Doone, could do that as well.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay, I’ll go. Mine is Looney Tunes, which I feel like should be self explanatory of how it relates.

Riese: Yeah, that was a really good one.

Drew: Wow, I can’t think of anything.

Analyssa: Oh God, Drew, you might have to just take the free space and say lesbian.

Drew: My brain is broken.

Riese: I’ll take the space to say that I have now watched Magic Mike and Magic Mike XXL and I loved them both.

Drew: I love that.

Analyssa: This is only going to distract Drew from coming up with an L word.

Riese: Just say “Le Magic Mike.”

Drew: Love, love, love Magic Mike. And I don’t know why I… I just think that some days…

Riese: Lobster roll.

Analyssa: Oh yeah.

Drew: I can’t… no, see that’s the thing, I kept thinking lobster roll and I couldn’t get that out of my brain, but I can’t do it because it’s part of the episode title. But I’m just going to go for it and maybe I should go have dinner and that’ll give me some brain food and then I’ll be back.

Riese: Yeah, get some lentils.

Analyssa: Love it.

Drew: Lentils, great.

Analyssa: Eat some lettuce while you’re at it.

Drew: Great. Great, great.

Riese: Yeah, you got a whole meal and then top it off with a Lorna Doone. And that, my friends, that is dinner. And we’ll see you next week.

Analyssa: That’s dinner.

Drew: That’s beautiful.

Analyssa: Bye.

Riese: Bye, everyone.

“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 204: Lake House

Folks, it has finally happened. The members of our OG L Word cast have finally awoken from their decade-long collective dream and remembered that they have a past! Shane shares her regret about Carmen with Angie, and still definitely wants to get with Alice’s mom. Alice, already busy crying over her break-up with Nat, decides to make us all cry by talking about Dana Fairbanks. Our friend Bette is too busy looking at Pippa Pascal in awe to remember that she has definitely done more stuff worth remembering than just “cheated on Tina seventeen years ago.” (Justice for Jodi.)

Meanwhile, our Gen Q crew is off doing things that they will conveniently forget to mention when they are in the next reboot 10 years from now. Sophie and Finley are starting to spend more time together, and of course Dani and Micah have feelings and thoughts about that (though Micah’s thoughts and feelings seem to be growing in Maribel’s direction, tbh). Listen to us unpack it all on To L and Back, and we’ll even tell you our first AIM screennames as a treat!

SHOW NOTES

Drew: Hi I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Riese, Drew, and Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q!

Drew: Edition! Oh wow, Riese didn’t say it that time.

Riese: I know. I didn’t say it because I thought I was going to be alone.

Drew: No, we have your back. We always… For us as lesbians, it’s always important that we take care of each other.

Riese: Also that is fully part of my everyday lexicon now.

Drew: Saying “edition,” or “for us as lesbians”?

Riese: “For us as lesbians,” yeah.

Drew: Great.

Analyssa: I think it’s so fun to take a random phrase that means absolutely nothing and just incorporate it into your vocabulary. My friend group says, “Mr. Police Man, we gave you all the clues” all the time. What an absurd timeline for a movie, so we say it any time someone should have understood what we were talking about. “For us as lesbians,” much more useful in my day-to-day life as lesbians.

Riese: For us as lesbians.

Drew: This episode 204 is called “Lake House” like the film with Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves.

Riese: How many lakes were in this episode? I recall zero. Well, I’m sure they did a shot of Echo Park Lake.

Analyssa: I was gonna say, I’m sure Echo Park Lake did get featured, but the houses… Well, we’ll talk about this later. It’s in the woods.

Drew: How close to the lake do you have to be to be a lake house?

Riese: You got to be on the lake.

Analyssa: On the lake.

Riese: You got to be on the lake, yeah.

Drew: Okay. I don’t remember… I actually never saw The Lake House with Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock, so I don’t actually know if that lake house was on a lake. I would imagine it was. Please listeners, tell us about that film.

Riese: It for sure was on the lake.

Analyssa: I’ve heard that film is bad. I think the house is on the lake, but as a person of Midwestern experience, I can say that a lake house is on a lake.

Riese: It’s on the lake.

Analyssa: Even if your house is a few blocks away, you’d be near the… A lake house is different. I don’t need to get into the semantics of this.

Riese: I was just going to say that I haven’t seen the movie Lake House, but I did see the episode of the original series where they went to the lake house with Jodi’s friends and threw Bette into the lake.

Analyssa: Right, remember? They could just walk out onto the lake.

Drew: That episode… Bette, God. Speaking of Bette, God, ugh. Well, this episode, first of all, is directed by Sarah Pia Anderson, who has directed so much TV, including an episode of Gilmore Girls and also an episode of Gen Q last season, the third episode. It is written by Thomas Page McBee, who wrote on the Tales of the City reboot and wrote on the first season and is notably The L Word: Generation Q’s only trans writer.

Riese: I want to say before we start that I cried four times during this episode.

Drew: Oh, wow. I wonder if you’ll cry five times in the next episode and subsequently every number of the season. That would be really beautiful.

Riese: Yeah. There were a lot of emotional parts, a lot of opportunities. But as usual, I should say that when I say I cried, what I really mean is I teared up.

Analyssa: I did actually fully cry once, and I teared up one more time. I’m a pretty easy cry, but…

Riese: Me too.

Analyssa: I also… it happened.

Drew: I don’t cry generally because I’m a Capricorn, and also I have an eye condition I found out that makes me not cry—

Riese: Oh yeah, you mentioned that.

Drew: …which we’ve mentioned that, yeah, so I did feel a lot of emotions. I will get into this, but I liked this episode. For us as lesbians, should we get into this episode?

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: I believe we should. All in favor, say aye.

Analyssa: Aye.

Drew: Aye.

Analyssa: The bill becomes a law. Thank you.

Drew: Like all good episodes of television, it starts with the FBI arresting Dani’s dad, because on TV, rich people constantly are being bothered by the FBI.

Riese: They sure are.

Analyssa: This is just what happens when you get rich in TV. Your days are numbered.

Drew: My main takeaway from this opening was that Gigi rushes in meaning business. She’s like, “What is going on?” I’m just like, once again, much love to Gigi.

Analyssa: Gigi kind of loves a crisis, which makes it very funny that she’s a real estate agent. There are so many more things. Crises are just her passion. They’re not her career. She just wants to be there.

Riese: My hope from this opening scene was, “Oh my God, Dani’s going to be a mess because obviously, and Gigi’s going to manage the fuck out of this situation. They’re going to fall in love. That’s going to be this story of the series.” Believe it or not, it went in a different direction that I didn’t necessarily care for.

Drew: Well, let’s give them time. Much like real life friends, sometimes you have to let them have their mistakes and dalliances before getting to the endgame goals.

Riese: Right, that’s true.

Analyssa: Speaking of endgame goals.

Riese: Nice.

Analyssa: Thank you. Mari and Micah are together again in the next scene.

Drew: They are. Chatting about horses. Really getting a lot of mileage out of the horse convo.

Riese: Remember the horses or monkeys thing? If you’re gay you wanted a monkey, and if you’re straight you wanted a horse?

Drew: Oh, yes.

Analyssa: Oh, yeah.

Riese: Speaking of being straight of being gay, Maribel has a date, and Micah asks if she wants to hang out, and she’s like, “No, I can’t because I have a date with someone who doesn’t deserve me or something, but I could set you up with my coworker Harry.”

Drew: As a double date. It was like, “Oh, we would go out as a double date.” It was like, oh. You could see it in Micah’s eyes. It’s not what he wanted. Then Micah gets a call from Dani’s dad, and it’s like, uh-oh. What’s happening? We know.

Riese: Then we go to Sophie’s house, where she’s got her little computer out and she’s looking at vintage lesbians. This is a pastime I can relate to. This is a great moment for our little Finley because she did a thing and has hopes and dreams.

Analyssa: She’s so fired up!

Riese: She played soccer!

Drew: Yeah, and she says that coaching kids’ sports is her ambition in life, and I think that’s lovely.

Riese: Right. Sophie’s so impressed that she asks Finley out for dinner.

Sophie: Do you want to go out for dinner tonight? I could use something to look forward to after a day of banging my head against the wall.
Finley: Yeah, for sure. You want to go to that sushi place on Hyperion? We can meet on the curb?
Sophie: Yeah, sure.
Finley: Or I could pick it up and I will take a Lyft this time so it doesn’t get warm like last time.
Sophie: No, let’s just meet there at seven.
Finley: Seven, okay, great.

Riese: I was so excited!

Drew: It’s very cute.

Riese: Ugh!

Drew: I’m sorry.

Riese: It’s fine. It’s fine.

Analyssa: I was also excited but immediately thought, “I’m sure this is going to go well for everyone involved. I’m sure this is going to go exactly how we want it to.” Then at Bette’s, Alice has stayed there and is talking about staying up late crying and watching videos that make her cry.

Drew: Okay, but specifically watching videos of soldiers reuniting with their families, but there’s no mention of Tasha.

Riese: This show loves the Army.

Drew: There’s no mention of Tasha! Her second most significant ex. I’m so confused… Look. I think what’s incredible is that I think a lot of the Gen Q writers maybe haven’t seen the original L Word or haven’t watched it since it was on the air, and honestly I love that for them.

Riese: Haven’t seen it 45 times.

Drew: If Thomas has not seen The L Word, the original series since it was on the air, not only am I okay with that, but I am so happy for him and encourage that, and if there’s continuity problems, I don’t care. I support him in this choice, but also let’s stop talking about the Army.

Riese: Yeah. Also, there’s only one good video of a soldier reuniting with their family, and it’s when Tasha arrives home from being whatever. She was deployed and then she got to come back because she was gay, and then she walks into Alice’s house and they take off all their clothes and have sex on the floor.

Analyssa: Maybe that’s what Alice was watching.

Riese: That’s a good video. These other videos, interesting. Interesting. Interesting choice.

Analyssa: You know how medical shows bring a doctor on staff to consult on what’s realistic and what’s not? I think that The L Word: Generation Q should bring on an L Word consultant and it should be one of you two.

Riese: Thank you. I will accept it.

Analyssa: Just like, “What’s realistic in the world of The L Word?”

Riese: Right. They have never mentioned Tasha ever. They didn’t mention Tasha in Gen Q or this.

Drew: Script supervisor Riese Bernard.

Riese: Yeah, I’ll just go through the script and write, “Tasha!” all through it. And what is Rose Rollins doing? She could be that… Oh, she’s doing that basketball series. Anyway, I’m sure she could have taken a minute and been in this. Alice has to kick her mom out of her house, and Shane is like, “I’ll talk to your mom.”

Analyssa: Shane offers to go do it with a little bit of sex maybe.

Alice: Now I have to go tell my mother to get out of my house, and she’s not going to take that well.
Shane: I can talk to Lenore for you if you’d like.
Bette: That’s very generous of you.
Alice: We’re very aware of that, thank you Shane.

Drew: It’s very interesting to remember that callback but not remember Tasha?

Riese: Well, it was in the preview for Season 1 a lot, the Lenore joke from Season 1 of Gen Q, you know?

Drew: That’s true. Meanwhile at The Alice Show, Micah has shown up because Dani is MIA, and because this is a television program, Micah has decided to go to her ex and talk to her about that.

Analyssa: At her place of work!

Drew: Yeah, definitely stretching believability there, but you know what? I’m on board.

Riese: I am not. The moment that this happened — well, first of all, I was like, “Good, hold your ground, Sophie. Dani said she didn’t want to see you. Respect those boundaries.” But then Micah kept pressing, and I was like, “Sophie’s not having sushi with Finley tonight.” In that exact moment, I was like, “Nope. It’s not happening.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: In that moment, I felt a little bird die in my soul.

Drew: Think about it this way: In real life, if you have plans to get sushi with someone who you are excited to get sushi with, you can go. You can get sushi. It can be lovely, and then you can go on another date in a few days or in a few weeks or whatever you want, and you can just continue to have happiness and joy. But this is a soap opera, so if they were to have had a good dinner tonight, then the next episode would be a guaranteed disaster. The longer you have to wait for the payoff, the more likely you are to get a good run of Sophie and Finley. It’s just something to keep in mind.

Analyssa: Drew is working on a thesis about the calculus of soap operas or something.

Drew: Yeah, I’m always working on some thesis.

Analyssa: Mathematical formula.

Riese: But you’re right, it’s fine. I can wait. It will happen eventually.

Drew: But I will say it is… Okay, who is Micah? I’m like, “Who are you that you are going to this ex instead of being able to handle the situation yourself?”

Riese: Also who he told to not talk to Dani anymore. Not really explicitly, but he sort of kept being like, “You hurt her.” He’s on Team Dani.

Drew: Yeah. Do you think we maybe missed the rest of the scene when he actually showed up as an excuse to talk about Sophie’s sister, and he’s like, “Anyway, that was the important thing I had to talk to you about, but you think…?”

Analyssa: “More importantly, has Maribel said something about me? I told you something about Dani. Maybe she said something about me?” Yes, I think that is exactly it. Although again, a text message, a call, a drive from West Hollywood to whatever studio The Alice Show was shot on is certainly not the most efficient way to get this done.

Drew: This happens in media all the time, and maybe it happens in real life, and my exes just know me well enough not to do this, but showing up to people’s place of work to have emotional conversations or any sort of personal life thing is not good. I do not recommend doing it. Don’t do it, and definitely don’t do it to me specifically.

Analyssa: One time a girl I hooked up with who happened to work on the same studio lot as I did interoffice mailed me a Christmas card, and I considered moving away forever. I considered walking out, never returning to my job, and never returning to Los Angeles. I can only imagine…

Drew: If it was an in person visit.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Riese: When I didn’t answer my boyfriend’s phone calls, he would just call me at work, and then they would pass it off to me.

Drew: Oh boy.

Riese: Ex-boyfriend.

Analyssa: Thank you for clarifying.

Riese: Yeah, at the time, also, he was an ex-boyfriend. I was like, “Either be my boyfriend or break up with Allie-boo. Break up with Allie-boo and be my boyfriend or don’t be my boyfriend. Don’t keep constant tabs on me and date Allie-boo.”

Drew: Who’s Allie-boo?

Riese: Well, that was her name on AOL. This was quite some time ago.

Analyssa: That was certainly a screen name. I didn’t have a cool screen name. Mine was HippieChick123.

Drew: Mine was SprtsFrk1224, with no vowels. Well, actually, no, “Freek” had two Es. It was S-P-R-T-S-F-R-E-E-K, 1224. 12/24 is my birthday, and that’s the only thing that still makes sense there.

Riese: Mine was RPopTart because raspberry was my favorite flavor of Pop-Tart in 1993.

Drew: You know who wasn’t alive in 1993? Angie and Kayla.

Riese: Nice!

Drew: And that’s who’s in this next scene! Thank you. Angie says that as a kid she wanted to be Snoopy. Kayla says she wanted to be a dancer. It’s some nice sister bonding chatting, and then it starts to pivot into dad convo, and Kayla’s like, “We can talk about it,” and Angie’s like, “Can we? Because I don’t want you to think I’m using you, but also I would love to know something about my dad.”

Riese: She says she’s got something to tell her, and I was like…

Analyssa: My notes say “he’s gay or sick,” immediately.

Drew: The thing about The L Word is that the options are either gay, dying, or arrested.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Those are the only things that can happen to people, and we will reveal in a later scene which of the three.

Analyssa: I hilariously really thought… I was like, “He’s going to be gay.” Then I was like, “Why would that be…?”

Drew: That’s the default.

Analyssa: Why would this be such a serious conversation? It took me so long to get over it.

Riese: Maybe she was going to be like, “He lives in Italy in a palace.”

Analyssa: That would have been fun.

Drew: I would love to see some sort of Princess Diaries meets Gen Q moment.

Riese: Yes, absolutely. Get royalty.

Analyssa: What if one time in a TV show someone was like, “I have to tell you something about your relative,” and then—

Riese: “He’s the King of Scotland!”

Analyssa: And then ominous music played, and it was like, “They found out that they’re royalty.”

Riese: Exactly, that’s so nice.

Analyssa: Amazing.

Riese: And now you’re wealthy and in charge of balls.

Analyssa: Speaking of being wealthy. Hey-o! Tess and Shane are planning a bunch of events, and Tess it seems like is crushing. She’s just running the show. Shane can’t do anything without her, so of course then Tess gets a call that is going to take her away from the bar on this busy eve.

Drew: Yeah, she’s driving to Vegas and back in a day, which is very impressive. She’s doing that because her mom lives there, but Shane’s like, “I’m going to come with you. Let’s party!” Shane is crushing hard. Here’s the thing that I really like about Shane is that culturally she has this reputation for being so fuckboy Shane, but part of being a good fuckboy is being very emotional and giving the impression that the other person who can change you and having a real watery energy to you. I really like watching Shane be in love mode because it does feel genuine, and that’s the thing about the people I know who break the most hearts. They’re really not malicious. They really in the moment are like, “I found love, and it’s consuming me.” You’re like, “You think you maybe want to not tell the person until it lasts more than a week? Because this might lead to some heartbreak.” But so far, Shane is just like, “I don’t want to be away from you for the day. I want to come with you.” I’m like, “Who’d be watching the bar if you went with her?” But Shane doesn’t care.

Riese: Maybe she loves Vegas.

Drew: That’s also true.

Riese: She’s like, “Let’s go to the fucking pyramid. Let’s go to the castle. Let’s go to the circus. Let’s go to Paris. Let’s go to New York. We can do all that in one day in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.”

Drew: It is a special place.

Analyssa: Then drive back to the bar in time for the event tonight.

Riese: Totally. The one that they’ve also booked Finley for even though Finley also has other plans tonight, which they’re constantly doing. No one’s paying any attention to anybody’s schedule.

Analyssa: Nope, they have three people who work at the bar, first of all. Secondly, they fill out no schedules. They just assume everyone will be there, and then if someone has plans, they go, “Well, I guess that’s fine.” It’s anarchy. It doesn’t make any sense.

Drew: All the lesbians in LA at Dana’s like, “Can I get a fucking drink? Come on!” Which was my experience the one night that the Dana’s party happened because it was packed. That was fun. I miss that. I think it’s coming back.

Riese: Yeah, it was packed. I remember because my friend’s now-ex, we sent her to the bar to get drinks, and she came back with no drinks.

Drew: Yeah, I was standing there for a long time. Honestly though, here’s the thing. I actually love it when there’s a long line at a gay bar because it’s a great… Same with a bathroom line. Some of my best conversations happen when I’m waiting for something. It’s a great place. I also think that LA, having traveled the United States this summer, LA…

Riese: Having been to Ohio.

Drew: Having been to Ohio, I feel like people in LA sort of stay in their groups, and that’s fine, whatever, but I think something that I’ve found at other queer spaces in places that aren’t LA is people are more eager to chat. The one place where people are eager to chat is bathroom line and drink lines.

Riese: Yeah, the gay-ass bathroom line.

Drew: Yeah, gay-ass bathroom line, oh! Incredible.

Riese: I’ve had great conversations there.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Okay, so then—

Riese: Oh my God!

Analyssa: So then Alice goes back to her house.

Riese: It’s Lenore! They got her back!

Drew: They did get her back.

Riese: Lenore is back!

Analyssa: They did get her back.

Drew: Who’s that actress? I didn’t do that research.

Riese: Oh, her name is Anne Archer. Anne Archer plays Lenore Pieszecki.

Drew: Has she been acting since? What’s she been up to?

Riese: Yeah, she’s just in The Dropout, a TV miniseries that’s in post-production. She was in an order of Drew’s favorite show SVU. She’s in the TV show Privilege. Looks like she’s been working maybe one thing a year maybe, at most.

Drew: And now here she is! Here she is in a multilevel marketing scheme.

Riese: Yeah, of course. That makes perfect sense. Of course. Of course.

Drew: It’s funny because for the longest time whenever I would see MLM to mean “men loving men,” I would always think, “multilevel marketing scheme,” but now that I see in my notes, “Alice’s mom is in an MLM,” I’m like, “Good for you, Lenore! I’m glad you found yourself!”

Riese: And little do you know, it’s really just about oils.

Drew: Yeah. It always is. Well, that can be an important part of an MLM relationship as well.

Lenore: If you’re referring to my small business.
Alice: You mean your scam?
Lenore: It’s for multi-level marketing company.
Alice: Potayto, potahto.
Lenore: You will be pleased to know that you are looking at Swan’s Breaths Cosmetics’ platinum salesperson.
Alice: (Sigh) Fuck me.

Riese: And Alice is like, “You need to move out, because I broke up with Nat and I bought you an entire apartment in Brentwood with a room for all your crystals,” or whatever that she’s selling.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And her mom’s like “No, you need me, and I’m staying.” Alice… I mean the wealth, honestly.

Drew: I mean, but she’s like a fucking talk show host of course she has that kind of money.

Riese: Right. That’s true.

Drew: I mean, it seems like it’d be really nice to be able to deal with your problems that way.

Riese: Right? Like if you broke up with someone and then you’re like, “Okay, I bought a new apartment. Bye.” Instead of being like, “Well, I guess we’re going to cohabitate for three more months.”

Analyssa: “I guess we have to live together until the lease expires. And then I’m going to have to move into a smaller apartment that costs more, that’s farther away from where I want to be. Cool, cool, cool, cool.”

Riese: “Or I’m going to have to have my new girlfriend move in to where I live with my old girlfriend, because we can’t find any other apartments that are cheap because the rent has gone up so high since we got this one.”

Analyssa: It’d be nice to be really, really rich, I think.

Drew: Yeah. We need to get on that.

Riese: Yeah, I think about that every day.

Analyssa: One of us should host a talk show. I hear that’s a quick pass to fame and fortune.

Riese: You know, they offered Rosie — she was done with her show and they were like, “We’ll give you $50 million to do one more season.” And she was like, “No.” And they’re like, “You can’t turn that down.” They were offering her like $80 million. She was like, “I have more money than I could ever spend in my lifetime already. I don’t want to do the show. Stop.”

Drew: Good for Rosie.

Riese: And she didn’t and she stopped. Anyway, I don’t think that you’re offering that to Alose though. They almost canceled her last year.

Drew: They did.

Analyssa: I was going to say, The Alose Show does not have that level of cultural impact at this point, I think.

Drew: Speaking of rich people who have cultural impact, Shane is talking to Angie.

Riese: This is cute! Oh, this is my first cry. This was my first cry.

Analyssa: This is really cute.

Drew: So the reveal is that Marcus Allenwood is dying.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew: And so I don’t understand what’s with killing all so many people. And I also specifically think that it’s worth noting that it’s the show killing another Black person, after killing Kit offscreen in between the seasons.

Riese: And her dad.

Drew: Yeah. It just is like, okay.

Riese: Yeah, he could have just been gay.

Drew: He could’ve just been gay.

Riese: As predicted. He could have been involved in a multi-level marketing scheme. He could be doing workout videos. He could be…

Analyssa: Running an underground poker game for lesbians.

Riese: Running an underground poker game for lesbians.

Drew: Yeah. So, but Angie is just trying to decide if she should meet him before he dies. And Shane doesn’t know, which is honest and nice and sweet. And then she talks about her own dad. It’s a very emotional, emotional, emotional scene. The only thing that I had an issue with was that Shane was like, “Talk to Jordie.” And she was like, “Jordie is running for prom queen, so her life’s on a different page or something.” And I’m just like, why couldn’t it be, Jordie doesn’t like her parents, so she doesn’t understand or whatever, or something that just reveals a little bit more about Jordie, except that she’s a shitty — I mean, look, she’s a high schooler so she can be a shitty girlfriend, but I just like, everything we’ve seen so far, even like last episode, two episodes ago, when Jordie was like, “Oh my God, I want to go with you to like, meet your dad, meet your sister.” I just am like, why? I don’t know. That just felt like a weird throwaway line since we don’t get that much time with Jordie, just like economically speaking, could have revealed more about who she is as a person and their relationship, but you know what? It’s fine. Angie wants to see a therapist.

Riese: I thought it was nice, because we talk a lot about how they pretend like the original series is never brought up. And I think this is the first time that she’s ever brought up Carmen and says that meeting her father reinforced the worst parts of her and she made a really poor decision, and that she would have been better off had she never met him. Although then she never would have had the pleasure of raising little Shay and introducing him to milkshakes and skateboarding and breaking his arm.

Drew: That was such a powerful relationship. Really, that brief moment where Shane was just going to be a dad.

Riese: Shane was finally daddy. And now Shane doesn’t want kids anymore.

Analyssa: Just this dog that she found. When Lenore arrived, and I was like, oh, that’s fun, they brought her back. And then she was just like the first horseman of the ghost L Word past. Everyone’s like, “Okay, so remember how there’s an original series?” after Lenore, which I thought was very funny.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I loved it. Loved to see it, but it was just like the one-two of Lenore. And then Shane being like, “Oh yeah, and I left someone at the altar.” I was like, yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I want to find about Tina’s parents at some point, which is wild that I’m asking for more Tina screen time. But it’s amazing what Carrie coming to the show will do to you. But I am like, are we ever going to find anything about that? Maybe not.

Riese: Well, we did in the interrogation tapes.

Drew: Those aren’t canon.

Riese: I know they’re not canon.

Drew: I refuse to acknowledge those as canon.

Riese: That’s what Carly and I realized. Obviously I bitched about Tina not having parents for six seasons of television. And then the interrogation tapes, she invented this bananas, totally banana’s family history.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It was wild.

Drew: Truly wild. So speaking of things that are wild, Sophie goes to Dani’s not-lake lake house, which I’m still like—

Analyssa: The secondary manor.

Drew: Yeah, I’m still just like, why is this Sophie’s problem? Why is this Sophie’s problem? Dani and Sophie immediately started fighting, which I did really like, because I don’t know. It feels very truthful to me of this thing where you’re like, okay, I’m going to go, it’s going be fine, we’re going to be mature, whatever. And then you immediately fall into bickering.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). She’s like, “You can’t even give me space, but I run away to the woods.”

Drew: Yeah. But Sophie comes in to pee.

Riese: Then I know where it’s doomed.

Drew: Yeah. But here’s the thing, is that Sophie did not drive all the way to that lake house, not to have sex with Dani. Like she maybe didn’t know that’s what she was doing. Maybe in her head, she was not doing that, maybe she was doing something noble. But I think in a year, when Sophie looks back on this moment, she’s going to go, “Yeah, I knew what I was doing.”

Riese: Is it a lake house though? I think it’s a castle.

Drew: No, it’s not-lake lake house.

Riese: It’s a mini castle.

Analyssa: It’s a manor in the woods.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Maybe they have a pond? Maybe they have a private lake.

Drew: I’d live there.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay. So…

Riese: Speaking of Sophie.

Drew: Yeah, someone who doesn’t know what’s happening in Sophie’s life right now is Finley, who’s buying flowers for Sophie with Micah, and Micah is a little bit like, uhhh…

Analyssa: She has a new blazer!

Drew: Micah’s concerned. And Micah should be concerned. We’re all concerned.

Riese: She’s volunteering. But here’s the thing, it happens in this episode, it happened in the last episode. And I will admit it happens in the next episode as well. People are constantly telling Sophie or Finley things like, oh, she asked for space and she asked for space, or like, she didn’t ask for space. Or she told you — People are constantly giving each of them different alleged requests from the other person. Like did Sophie ask Finley for space?

Drew: She did a few weeks ago, but they’ve moved past that.

Riese: Right.

Drew: She did ask for time.

Riese: Yeah. She asked for time before she could talk about her feelings.

Drew: But then, she also asked for sushi, so…

Riese: And she also asked Finley to stay in the house.

Drew: She did.

Riese: And also Sinley forever.

Drew: She also asked her to have sex with her, with her energy.

Riese: Yeah. She gave her… secretly in the head, mind melt.

Drew: There’s vibes. Not strong enough vibes that there don’t need to still be some conversations before it happens. But there’s definitely some vibes.

Riese: Yep.

Drew: Speaking of vibes, Bette is on a journey to meet Pippa.

Riese: In Topanga.

Drew: Yes. Which they make seem like that is truly, if someone didn’t know LA, they would think that that was — that Bette had been driving for hours.

Riese: Wait, how far is that?

Drew: Topanga? It’s nothing.

Riese: Oh really?

Drew: Yeah, sure. I mean, it depends where you’re coming from, but it’s just like another way to go over the hill from the valley. The other thing about Topanga is that I think when you go to homes there, you’re like, this is beautiful. But driving there you’re like, oh my God, if I lived here, to go to the grocery store, it would be such a fucking pain in the ass. But Pippa wants to be secluded. So Topanga is a great choice for her to be living.

Riese: Her house is like, off the set of Once Upon A Time.

Drew: Yeah. It’s really something. What I’m wondering is this whole time that this happening, I’m like, has Bette called Gigi? Have they worked out any of their past problems? And the answer, I think, is no. But Pippa’s hot and Bette is obsessed and Bette is pushy. She’s just going to keep hanging around. Speaking of tops who don’t know how to take no for an answer, Dani calls Micah to let him know that she’s okay, she’s talking to Sophie about how she’s pretty sure her dad did something really bad, which is like, uh, duh. And Sophie’s like…

Sophie: I’m always going to be here for you, whether you want me or not.

Drew: And then what happens?

Riese: Bang, bang, bang.

Drew: What happens? Ex-sex.

Riese: Ex-sex.

Drew: The 11th best kind of sex.

Analyssa: Well you knew it was going to happen.

Riese: We did. Yeah. We knew it was going to happen.

Analyssa: You put it at 11th?

Drew: You put it higher?

Analyssa: I would put it higher. I’m sick in the head though.

Riese: Ex-sex is pretty good. Because it’s dramatic.

Drew: I never had sex with my last ex and I did have sex with my first serious ex, after the fact. And there was some good drama there, but it’s still, it’s nah.

Analyssa: Look, there’s the drama. It feels as sort of exciting as a new experience because you’ve ended one phase, and now it’s like, ooh. It’s not the same as when you were together or seeing each other or whatever. But it has all the comfort and knowledge of knowing someone already.

Drew: Right. That makes sense.

Analyssa: So you’re not fumbling through it. Anyway, I don’t know that I’d put it much higher than 11, but 11 seems low to me.

Drew: You seem like eighth or maybe seventh.

Analyssa: Yeah, I think seventh is probably around.

Drew: Yeah. I will say that they make a compelling case for…

Analyssa: All of my points come true here. You can see it in action.

Drew: Yeah. As a fellow Sinley shipper, maybe not as intensely as Riese, this isn’t what I wanted to happen. But as I was watching it, I was like, feel bad for Finley, feel good for me. And you know, it is what it is. Sophie stops mid-fuck and is like, “We shouldn’t be doing this.” And Dani’s like, “Touch me.” And then that’s what happens. So…

Riese: I actually thought it was going to end there.

Analyssa: I did too.

Riese: Because she seemed pretty insistent.

Drew: Yeah. It’s interesting to compare both this and also the Sophie Finley sex scene that stops before it continues to some of the original show sex scenes, where I feel like you on To L and Back, the original, talked a lot about some of the ways that the show didn’t handle consent well. And I feel like in Gen Q, it feels like it’s handled a lot better. Like it’s maybe a little bit messy, definitely complicated, but it feels a lot clearer in the sense that I feel like the creators of the show know what the intention is. Even if something’s a little bit messy or a little bit, whatever. I feel like they’re on the same page. Whereas in the original show, sometimes there’d be sex scenes where someone would ask to stop, and I’d be like, oh, this feels like they really should stop and it feels like the creators don’t realize that. And so, I mean, I’ve already talked about how much I think the sex scenes are really a real standout of Gen Q, but this felt like the sort of thing where Sophie later might be, complicated about it, but not in a way where, I don’t know, in my opinion that it feels like I crossed the line into being like, ah, what did they do? You know what I mean?

Riese: Marja, when I interviewed her, talked about how they wanted to be really clear about consent. And she was saying one of the first scenes of the first series, they were having Finley hit on people and fail, and that it was important that they showed Finley being like, okay. Finley always says, she says “copy that” all the time, which I think is because Marja says that all the time maybe. I’m not sure.

Drew: Wait, is Finley a stand-in for Marja?

Riese: But when some of them was like, “No,” she’s like, “Copy that,” and like moved on to the next person just to show like, yes, this is a series where people take no for an answer.

Drew: It’s not something we talk about in queer community enough. We have this idea that it doesn’t affect us. And it’s just obviously not true, and so I appreciate that.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I don’t know how to have a transition to this next theme, but um…

Riese: Angie’s on the prowl for a therapist.

Analyssa: She’s making moves immediately. She’s like, we got to get this done.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I love that.

Analyssa: And Micah finds her in the lobby of his building and she’s like, “I need someone to talk to.” And he’s like, “Okay, we’ll make you an appointment.” She’s like, “No, now.” And he says that he has a few minutes, even though he has plans with Maribel.

Drew: Yeah. Is this a conflict of interest or do they have enough remove?

Analyssa: I was like, this feels a little bit invasive, but the kid needs to talk to someone now so…

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. It’s fine. I was like, I don’t know, seems okay. Like your mom’s former employee is my friend. Like that does feel like there’s enough of a remove.

Riese: Yeah. Well, and also I think Angie’s drama is going to be so separate from the people that Micah is connected to, because she’s a teenager and somehow the most emotionally mature person on the show.

Drew: Yeah. I love connecting Micah also more into the main — I think this was a really smart move. Even if it is a minor conflict of interest, I’m like, let’s conflict.

Riese: Yeah. Because also we get to see him work, you know?

Drew: Yeah, totally. So speaking of people who are at work, Bette is hanging out in the dark outside Pippa’s. Bette’s a full fan girl.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “You changed me on a molecular level.” I’m like, Bette, dial it back.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And lists every show that she’s seen of Pippa’s, which is all of them, it turns out.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Doesn’t she always says this to artists though. I don’t think she — I feel like she’s been like, “I wrote my senior thesis about you” to 75 different artists.

Drew: Her senior thesis was really long.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I love seeing Bette in this mode. Because I just like always love when the power dynamic with Bette is like where she is, and I’m glad that that’s where this whole season’s going. Like first Gigi, now Pippa. I love when Bette has taken off her, I don’t know, when she’s not the one in control. Pippa does let Bette in and asks if she needs smelling salts. And honestly, I think she does.

Riese: She is enthralled.

Analyssa: She’s so overwhelmed by this workshop area.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. This art cave, where I guess Pippa’s just been making art for herself?

Drew: Yeah, I guess so. Well she is showing, she’s just showing anonymously, I guess?

Analyssa: And in really small galleries, I think is the point.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: But she is very aware of Bette’s game, which Drew said this sort of, but she’s like:

Pippa: I will not be manipulated by you.

Analyssa: Good for her.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: For someone who’s been in the woods of Topanga for decades, good for her. She reads this situation immediately.

Drew: Speaking of someone who’s not as straightforward. Okay. So Sophie, I realized what her problem is, is that she is incapable of not lying. And look, it’s an L Word tradition, but maybe Sophie and Bette need to have some hangouts and talk about what it’s like to not lie. Because here’s the thing, is that Sophie, what does she think? Like this is what’s fascinating about people who lie. Because I’m a terrible liar, I can’t get away with it, so I don’t really do it. But I just am like, you’re going to get caught.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Most people who lie get caught when you’re in this incestuous gay friend group. In what world is Finley never going to find out where you were? In what world? Just say on the phone, “Dani is going through this crisis. I’m here. It’s so complicated. Can I please have a rain check?” And then it’s like, “Oh, you’re with your…” Like, you know, the energy is like, “Oh I’m with my nightmare ex,” even who gives Finley feelings. You don’t have to be like, “We’re fucking right now.” But the lying is just like, you’re going to get caught.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: But morals aside, like you’re going to get caught.

Riese: Right.

Drew: And then there’s the moral side of it. But like, I just like, come on Sophie.

Riese: Yeah. I also like, so first I was so relieved that she called and canceled, because I was like, I cannot handle a scene of Finley sitting in the fucking sushi restaurant waiting and her not showing up, which is what I was emotionally steeling myself for, because I hate that trope so much. Like it’s just so sad and it’s also so unnecessary, because it’s not that hard to just call or text and cancel. So I was like, at least she’s calling, so I can be personally spared Finley looking at her watch, looking at the food, getting the check, being like, “Well, I guess she’s not coming.” You know what I’m talking about? We’ve seen this a million times.

Analyssa: Yeah, sending texts that go on answered.

Riese: Exactly. Right. Like, “Hey you coming, you coming?” Question mark. Question mark. Question mark.

Analyssa: “I’m here. I have a table.”

Riese: Right. Yeah. “I’m here. Errr, okay, well I guess I’m going to go.” And then I wrote immediately, “For sure, Micah is going to blow her cover.” Micah lives in a house with Finley and you just had Dani call Micah to tell her where she was. Also, I know that Finley is supposed to be an idiot or whatever, but Dani has that house in Ojai, that’s where they were going to go for their honeymoon. It would not be that hard. Either she’s at A Camp, or she’s seeing Dani.

Drew: So either way, she’s having sex with someone who isn’t Finley.

Riese: Right. Exactly. But at least she did a rain check. So I was like, all right, at least she’s not like going full on. I had no critical eye on this, I’m just fully judging this as a fan of this relationship. I was like, okay, so she’s not deciding that she’s going to be with Dani. You know?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: But then she goes and gets right back into bed with Dani.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Which is tough.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: You hate to see it? Or you love to see it?

Riese: Drew loves to see it.

Drew: No, I’m with you. This is what I’m watching The L Word for it. This is the kind of chaos and drama I want.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: This is what you want to be mad about, is Sophie making a bad decision and lying when she shouldn’t have?

Drew: Right, yeah, that’s the fun stuff. So Angie tells Bette that she saw a therapist, which is something that maybe Sophie should do also. That’s what we call a reverse transition. And then Angie asks Bette to come to therapy alongside Tina and Carrie. Angie is carrying this family. She is doing so much to try to make them help and communicate. And she is a full child and you know what? It makes me have a lot of feelings and that’s all I’m going to say about that.

Riese: Yeah. Wow. What teenager is like, “I’ve secured a therapist for a family counseling session.” No, you’re like, “Mom, I want to meet my dad!” That’s what you do. And then you storm out. Not Angie. She’s emotionally mature. Sorry for yelling, Carol.

Drew: Yeah. Someone who isn’t emotionally mature, Alice is talking to Tom. Tom asks Alice if Bette is still dating Alice’s ex’s ex-wife. And I really enjoyed that. And also Alice knows that Tom has a good memory for gossip, which makes me further proof that these two are going to get together.

Riese: You know what’s interesting about that?

Drew: What?

Riese: It’s that I think in the original series, if Alice had gotten together with her male book editor, it would have been like, “Oh, why isn’t she dating a woman?” But now there’s so many lesbian couples on TV that I really want Alice to date her editor.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. At first, when he first showed up and they were kind of quipping back and forth, I was anti for one scene. And then I was like, “Actually, this could be fun for her. I hope she does!”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I mean, also, not that I think Gen Q should exist to make up for the sins of the original show, and I think actually when it tries to do that too directly, it makes the show bad and creates new sins, but I do think that just from a place of realism, putting aside that the original show was biphobic, this is what queer women community looks like. People are not all lesbians. Actually I’d say the majority of my queer women community aren’t lesbians, maybe aren’t even women. It’s just, it’s so much messier and there’s so many more identities and experiences, and Alice is canonically bisexual. There’s no reason why she should exclusively be hooking up with people who are cis women. I mean, it’d be great to have instead of some cis dude to have lots of other people, but I’ll take it. I’ll take a cis dude. I feel the same way I do when a bisexual friend of mine starts dating a cis dude, especially a straight one, and I’m like, “You know what? He’s nice. He’s good. I support it. And I can’t wait to hang out and he can come to all the parties,” but, and that’s how I do. This guy who wants to have good breath, even though he gets juicy fruit? No one’s perfect.

Riese: Speaking of the sins of the original series, this is the scene during which I shed a full tear.

Analyssa: This was a full cry for me.

Riese: He says that the one chapter they haven’t revisited is the Dana chapter, and of course she’s like, “I don’t want to do that.” And then he opens up about his brother dying when he was young. And then she started talking about Dana. I’m going to cry just thinking about it. It was so, I don’t know. Because it’s also, they never talk about Dana as we all have done.

Analyssa: Yeah. And this is a really… It does not make up for them never talking about Dana, a friend who they loved and who died way too young, but it kind of eulogizes her in the show. It gives her sort of this moment of importance that I don’t think we’ve really seen. I thought it was really lovely.

Drew: And it justifies the lack of conversation around her by making it out to be like a defense mechanism for Alice that she doesn’t want to talk about it because it’s too painful. And that, I think, is a really smart move given what has been established so far. And yeah, I thought it was… I really liked this. I thought it was really well done.

Riese: Yeah.

Alice: I see her when my eyes are closed, but I also see her when my eyes are open. I can hear her laugh. I smell her smell. I can feel her. And I miss her so much sometimes, the emptiness is like… But there’s nothing I can do about it because she’s gone, and I do not want to dwell on the fact that she was taken from me and robbed of a life because of some fucking disease. Okay. I don’t want to do it, Tom. Okay?

Analyssa: When Alice was like, “I see her when my eyes are closed and when my eyes are open,” that really wrecked me. I’m thinking about it again and just sad.

Riese: I know. I started crying immediately.

Analyssa: It sounds like they’re going to get a good chapter out of it though.

Riese: Yeah. I can’t wait to read the book.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Tom makes a joke about Alice’s speech being like-

Tom: You think maybe you could say that again, but maybe just a little bit slower so I could jot it down. I know.
Alice: Oh my god, you’re the worst.
Tom: I know.

Analyssa: That broke the moment too in a really nice way. He wants goss, but he’s also supportive.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Drew: Speaking of supportive men, Micah is on his double date and Maribel’s like, “How’s it going?” And he’s like, “Yeah, I’m not really feeling it.” And he is like, “because I’m actually into women as well,” which I was a little confused by because I was like, what is that? Why is that? What does that have to do with what your feelings are about this guy? I just feel like this is the sort of thing that just feels like who’s the audience of this? Because if you want to get like real queer what this could be, it so easily could have been like, “I’ve realized that I’m into women as well and I think I want to sort of focus on that and focused on exploring that side of myself.” Just say that. Just say that he wants to focus on exploring that side of himself. That makes total sense, and it’s totally—

Riese: Like it’s an identity that he needs to explore?

Drew: Yeah. That’s a thing that people talk about. Yeah.

Riese: I thought he was bisexual this whole time.

Drew: I thought he was too. That’s the other thing, I don’t know why it has to be a thing.

Riese: Yeah. I understood him saying this because it felt like this would be the kind of way that Micah, who does not know how to talk about having feelings, would come around to talking about his feelings.

Drew: That makes sense.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: This is what I was just about to say, is the way that I read it, and Drew your read is actually smarter, but the way that I took it was when I was in high school and early college, sometimes the game would be like, “Haha, I have a crush,” and a person will be like, “Oh, on who?” And you’re like, “Oh, nobody you know, don’t even worry about it.” That is sort of in the universe of what it felt like Micah was saying, “I like women,” wink, wink, and Mari’s like, “Oh also I have a girl.” And Micah’s like, “Oh, that’s not quite what I wanted to pull you towards.”

Drew: Yeah. I actually like that explanation more because that makes more sense. Micah has been bisexual, but is awkwardly coming out. Actually that justifies it. I actually really like that. That makes so much more sense than this is something that he’s exploring. I much prefer that. Sometimes people aren’t exploring things.

Analyssa: A win for teenage Annalysa.

Drew: Yeah. This reminded me of the time that I had asked my sister, before my first middle school dance, “How do I ask a girl to dance?” And my sister was like, “Ask her to teach you how to dance and then she’s going to teach you how to dance, and then all of a sudden you’re dancing and you’ve done it.” And I was like, “Okay.” And so I asked my crush to teach me how to slow dance, and so she turned towards our other friend and showed on this other girl, showed how to slow dance. And then it was like, and the songs playing it’s probably “A Moment Like This” by Kelly Clarkson. And then is like, “And now go ask someone,” and I just stood there and stared. I so easily could have pivoted to be cool and been like, “How about you? Do you want to dance?” And instead I just stood there, not saying a word until the song ended. And that was my… But that person ended up being my first girlfriend. And also it’s the origin story for why I love direct communication because what I should’ve done is just said, “Hey Courtney, do you want to dance?”

Riese: Yeah. Could have been like, “Some people wait a lifetime for a moment like this, in which I would ask you to date. Dance.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Dancing is a prerequisite, I guess, to dating.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So that’s what I feel like Micah was doing, was asking Mari to teach him how to dance.

Riese: Then her Lyft came, and once again, my desires have been thwarted on this program, this episode.

Drew: By a Lyft.

Riese: By a Lyft.

Analyssa: This was the moment where I was like, my notes say Riese has manifested. This, I was like, oh, I felt like my brain instantly was like, oh, we’re cooking with gas now. Sort of the way that Drew was like, if Sophie and Finley went on a date that would have been meant bad stuff later. I was like, if Mari is going to set Micah up with another woman, I think we’re in.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. We’re in. We’re in. It’s happening. At least we know from this scene, absolutely, he has a crush. We know that.

Drew: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Analyssa: Speaking of crushes, Bette and Pippa are at a very fancy dinner.

Drew: Uh-huh (affirmative). I’m obsessed with this scene.

Riese: I’m sure, I was like, “This is for Drew.” I was like, “Drew is going to love this.”

Drew: Just two powerful women discussing how to navigate the art world and what you do with how you navigate shitty bosses and what’s strategic versus what’s selling out. This is great. I love it. I love every minute of it.

Riese: Who tells who that she’s the most beautiful… Oh, Bette tells…

Analyssa: Bette tells Pippa that she’s the most beautiful woman she’s ever seen.

Drew: No, but before that Pippa says to Bette—

Pippa: It’s nice talking to someone as smart as you.
Bette: Likewise.
Pippa: And as beautiful. You know you’re beautiful, of course. How could you not know? So I think it’s okay to mention it.

Drew: It’s so good because it’s not Pippa being like, “I think you’re beautiful.” It’s being like, “I’m naming something that’s basic and I honestly couldn’t care less.” And also like… But then yeah, then Bette’s like, “You’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen.”

Riese: Good Jodi energy where Pippa is topping this conversation and Bette is just running to keep up.

Drew: Yeah. Oh my God. And so then when she’s leaving Bette grabs her hand and Pippa says—

Pippa: Don’t touch me like this… unless you’re coming home with me.

Riese: My note here is, “Everyone is really horny on this show.”

Drew: I love how horny everyone is. It’s the representation I need. There’s not a lot of great trans representation, but there’s great horny representation. Great top for top representation. Great horny representation.

Analyssa: Forward representation. People are always just saying stuff.

Riese: Yeah. They’re shooting their shot on this show.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And oh, and also she basically, Bette’s trying to get Pippa to be in the gallery and she’s refusing.

Drew: Yeah. That’s the meat of the…

Analyssa: Pippa keeps saying that she can’t or won’t work with Bette, but you know what? I bet she might kiss her. She could do that.

Riese: Yeah. I think she’s going to show.

Drew: Zakarian doesn’t have to be there for the kissing. Zakarian has no involvement.

Analyssa: The good thing about Zakarian is this dinner was on him.

Drew: That is true.

Analyssa: Thank you, sir, for your service.

Drew: And that’s strategic.

Riese: I hope she expensed her gas to Topanga.

Analyssa: I hope so. Yeah. You could expense gas and mileage. That’d be great.

Riese: And then…

Drew: Okay, so I love this.

Riese: Justice for Gigi.

Analyssa: Justice for Gigi.

Drew: So, I mean, just so yeah. So Bette’s horny because of Pippa so goes home, fucks Gigi.

Analyssa: Just a normal, get it out of your system kind of fuck.

Drew: But Bette’s so over it. It’s a mess. It is not the hotness of the original, but it’s a very good sex scene as far as dynamics go. I really, I don’t think a sex scene needs to tell a story, sometimes it can just be hot, but this tells a story.

Analyssa: This one was telling you a story.

Riese: Yeah, I do wish that we got just maybe one scene of Bette talking about Gigi to a third party. Because I’ve decided in my head that she just doesn’t want to be alone, basically, and Gigi’s hot and she’s just kind of doing it. She knows she doesn’t have strong feelings, but she’s just basically filling space.

Analyssa: Right. And they both can bring up the physical passion. They’re both good at, as we said, kissing each other. So why not do it?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But Gigi just got on so well with Dani that at this point, I’m just like, that’s where all my cards are.

Drew: Sophie, Finley, Dani, Gigi, Bette, Pippa, Tess, Shane, Micah, Maribel.

Riese: Perfect. Utopia. Oh, Tina and Carrie.

Drew: Yeah. But that’s a given. I mean, I know it’s not a given for the Bettina shippers out there who think that that’s still happening, and maybe this is naive of me, but I’m really not worried about Tina cheating on Carrie.

Analyssa: How could you cheat on perfect angel, Rosie O’Donnell?

Drew: I mean, maybe that’s where they’re going with it, but that’d be such a bummer. I miss her. Where’s Carrie? Why isn’t Carrie in this episode?

Analyssa: Okay. Speaking of happy pairings and cute little couples, Shane has set up a projector for a movie night outside of Tess’s. Shane is in deep right now. I don’t know if Shane knows that Shane is in deep, but as an objective, as I can be, third-party I was like, whoa.

Drew: I get it. If Jamie Clayton was gay, I’d be in love with her.

Analyssa: I was going to say, I feel that way when Jamie Clayton’s on screen too. Sure.

Riese: I have a cinema question. Is it true, I thought this was true, but I’m not sure. Because I remember, I’m a person, I’ve watched TV for a long time, and I’m like, God, why are there so many characters on TV, including literal teenagers, who are like, “I love classic films from the ’20s.” It’s because they can get the rights to those easier than films that these characters might actually be watching, right?

Drew: That makes sense. I’ve never thought about that because I’m this. So I’m always like, “Yes, this is what we do.”

Riese: Of course everyone loves Casablanca.

Analyssa: I think there’s probably two things. Number one, the rights. Because they’re older, they’re closer to not a common domain because that doesn’t really exist in movies, but like that. And also because they’re the ones that have sort of endured, you have a reference for what Casablanca is, versus something a little more recent, you might run the risk of people being like, “What the fuck is that?”

Riese: But I do feel like people would know what Pretty Woman is, or they would know what Ghostbusters is, but you never see that.

Drew: I would have loved if they had shown Desert Hearts.

Riese: Yeah, Desert Hearts or But I’m a Cheerleader.

Drew: Especially because you have this audience of lesbians watching this, it would have been a great opportunity to show… To advertise for… I mean, Desert Hearts is in The Miseducation of Cameron Post. Yes. Why aren’t they just watching Suicide Kale? Can you imagine? That’d be wild. That’d be great. I think they should. They should have done that. I have two notes about this. One, Kate Moennig was in the gay live read of Casablanca. That was like the first thing I went to when I moved to LA, and was the beginning of one of the first pieces I wrote for Autostraddle was about going to that. Fun fact. And the second thing is that it bothered me so much that when the projector turns on, it’s the climax of Casablanca and not the opening. I was like, I mean, I guess it’s just Shane doesn’t know how to use the projector, and obviously they wanted it to be a memorable… I get it. But I was like, what? No, this isn’t the opening credits of Casablanca. This is the climax of Casablanca. Come on. That bothered me. I didn’t even think about why would they be watching Casablanca? Because why wouldn’t you want to watch Casablanca?

Riese: Every time someone comes home from… And they find someone on the couch, they’re like, oh yeah, you know, I really love these gangster movies from the ’50s. And it’s like, do you? You’re 17. You’re born in 2005.

Drew: That’s fair. My favorite movie when I was 17 was The Red Shoes. 1948.

Riese: Mine was The Breakfast Club.

Analyssa: My favorite movie when I was 17 was probably still Juno.

Drew: Solid.

Riese: Classic trans cinema.

Drew: So basically what’s happening in this scene. Well, so Tessa’s mom isn’t doing well. And so she and Shane are sitting in these lawn chairs and talking about serious things and Shane loves some vulnerability coming at her, not necessarily sharing it herself. And then Shane kisses her, Tess pulls away and says, “Sorry, I’m seeing someone.”

Riese: What?!

Analyssa: The drama of it all.

Riese: Sorry, Carol.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. But here’s the thing about when people are seeing someone, they can quickly stop seeing someone and start seeing you instead.

Riese: Yeah, you can do that.

Analyssa: Things can change so fast.

Drew: Yeah. So Dani and Sophie are still in bed. Dani says that she thought that they would grow old in this house.

Riese: In Ojai surrounded by the citizens of Ojai?

Drew: Yeah. Dani talks about being career-driven and Sophie, we learn that Sophie wanted to make a documentary about lesbians in Buffalo in the ’40s and ’50s, which is cool.

Riese: It’s probably, you know that book, Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold? It’s about lesbian communities in Buffalo in the ’40s and ’50s.

Drew: Cool. I haven’t read that.

Analyssa: Oh that’s cool.

Riese: That’s why I was like, oh, she read that book. It’s mostly, it’s about butch-femme dynamics and stuff. And sort of these working class — because obviously in the ’40s, a lot of lesbians were able to get jobs finally because of the war and that’s where they also met other lesbians and they formed these communities and then it was the ’50s and everyone was really conservative and they had to figure out how to live. So it’s about one of those communities.

Drew: Yeah. There’s like a little of that in Stone Butch Blues.

Riese: Yeah. And Dani asked who Sophie was talking to earlier and reminds her that she’s a bad liar, and I’m like, “Is she? She kind of lied to you for several months.”

Analyssa: That’s true.

Drew: Dani knew.

Riese: You think? Oh right. Your theory. I think your theory is solid now.

Drew: Dani knew something was wrong. Dani didn’t know that she had had sex at Finley, but I think Dani probably thought that Sophie was having doubts because of the fighting they’d had. I really liked this as… Especially after having just watched Sophie lie, having Dani… Because it also shows that it can be really hard sometimes when you are breaking up with someone and there’s someone new who is exciting and you have chemistry with and whatever, but they don’t know you the way… I mean, it’s a little bit different because Finley and Sophie are such good friends, but it’s still — this for me was Dani being like, “I know you better than Finley knows you,” which is probably true and painful to watch because it should be the end.

Riese: I thought this was so realistic. This felt so authentic. Yeah, they’ve been banging and it was great, but then as soon as the real world invades their conversation, they’re at each other’s throats again immediately. And Dani is like, “How were you not mad at her?” She asked if they’re dating and Sophie’s like, “I don’t know what we’re doing,” which surprised me. Because it seems like, again, if Sophie doesn’t know if they’re dating or not, is it true that she told Finley to give her space? Everyone just is giving… There’s a lot of mixed messages here.

Drew: But I think there’s a lot of mixed feelings.

Riese: That’s true. You’re right. She’s confused.

Analyssa: Yeah. This is also a TV thing where friends give advice based on the last thing they heard their friends say instead of hearing the evidence and saying, “Oh, she definitely did say to give you space, but that is weird that she asked you to dinner. Maybe be a little more cautious.” Or maybe, instead of being like, “She said space, don’t talk to her.” But I did think that this whole progression from the time-honored tradition of post-ex sex, like, “This is what I thought our lives would be like, isn’t it so nice in this little bubble that we’ve built. Remember when we thought all these things would happen?”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Again, not speaking from personal experience, only allegedly. Moving into like, “Oh, actually there’s all these reasons that this was not ever going to be a thing.” I do think it was interesting that Dani seems more upset that Sophie isn’t pissed at Finley, that she just fucked her right now while maybe having feelings for Finley.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That distinction was really interesting to me.

Drew: Yeah, that is interesting.

Riese: It was also interesting when Dani got mad that Sophie’s response was, “You told me not to lie.” Like that was her comeback.

Analyssa: The whole defense was, “Well, you said to be honest, so here we are.”

Riese: Like, that’s not the issue, babe. It’s that the honest truth was one she didn’t care for. The solution to that isn’t—

Drew: Sophie is not perfect person. I’m going to go on the record and say that.

Riese: She’s not. She’s not. None of us are. I have empathy for Sophie, obviously.

Analyssa: I do too. I also think, though, that this showed sort of what we’ve been saying for a season and a half, is that they don’t really know how to communicate, which even lends to they don’t really know how to fight. They’re sort of fighting past each other.

Drew: Yeah. Totally.

Analyssa: They’re saying different… They’re in different boxing rooms, throwing punches at each other.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And that Sophie finally feels more competent in her career and excited about it is a sign that this breakup is good and that she seems to be better at talking to Dani about it now than she ever has been before. And Dani seems more excited for her than she was before. I also thought another funny thing is that Dani’s, probably because she just had sex with Sophie, she’s really mad at Finley. She’s like, “Aren’t you mad at Finley for ruining our wedding?” And yeah, but also Sophie is the one who—

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Finley did embarrass them in front of people they know, totally. But what she didn’t do was show up as a guest to their wedding, and I don’t know, strip naked and run around and boycott the wedding. She was saying something that Sophie had a part in.

Riese: Yeah. She didn’t cheat on anyone.

Analyssa: She didn’t just appear to show chaos.

Drew: I mean, this is why I pretty much… Look, Finley’s friends with Dani so I do think that it was wrong of her. But I generally do think that the person who’s cheating has more responsibility than the person who is having sex with the cheater.

Riese: The other person.

Drew: But I think it’s easier for people to be mad at the other person. I mean I think this comes up in straight culture all the time.

Riese: Right.

Drew: When people are mad at the other woman, and it’s like, “Be mad at your husband, babe.” You know? But it’s harder to be mad at the person you love.

Riese: Because you’re trying to make it work with them, too.

Drew: Right.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Or you’re in this post post breakup sex bubble.

Riese: Yeah. And I mean, is interrupting a wedding to confess your love ever a good move? No.

Drew: I want to say no.

Riese: Absolutely not. That was bad. We all know that. But it’s just interesting. And then also when she’s mad about it and Sophie’s like—

Sophie: You told me it was over. And I believed you. You’re just so full of conviction.
Dani: No. Don’t put this on me.
Sophie: Well, is it not over between us?

Drew: They don’t know what they want. No one knows what they want.

Riese: It’s hard to know what you want.

Analyssa: Yeah, and Riese, to your thing, I don’t know what episode of they don’t know what they want, but they also don’t really know who they are without each other yet. And so it’s very easy to drop everything and go look for your ex because you know where she might be hiding. And then when you guys are in bed together to be like, “God, this is what it would have been like.” Sophie doesn’t know how to be the person who blew up her life. And Dani doesn’t really know how to be the person who doesn’t have Sophie. And neither of them know how to be the person that aren’t Dani and Sophie.

Riese: Yeah, definitely.

Analyssa: So it’s very complicated.

Drew: Yeah. Well, and now it’s complicated for Finley as well because Micah accidentally lets it slip that Sophie was seeing Dani, and Finley is very sad. And then we get one of our classic montages. Finley gets on a scooter. That’s how you know someone’s spiraling when they get on one of these scooters.

Analyssa: One of those rental scooters from the side of the road in Los Angeles? That’s a bad sign.

Riese: Bird? She gets a Bird?

Drew: Yeah. Alice goes home and is crying.

Riese: Alice hugs Lenore.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And cries.

Riese: I cried.

Drew: Maribel and Micah are texting. And I’m just shouting, “Be direct, Micah!” But you know what he’s not? He is not direct.

Analyssa: He did draft a very forward text, but then he didn’t send it.

Drew: Send the forward text. This is my message to all of you listeners. Send, do it. What do you… Why not? It’s a pandemic. It’s still a pandemic.

Analyssa: Not in The L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: No, it’s not. That’s true. But the pandemic could happen. You know, they should always be prepared.

Analyssa: They don’t know yet, but a pandemic could happen in their lifetime. They’re still living in normal precedented times thinking that everything in the rest of their life is going to be precedented.

Riese: I have a friend who worked on the show and I was like, “Can you tell me any spoilers?” So of course she was like, “No.” She’s like, “I will tell you one thing, which is that they’re going to pretend like there was never any pandemic in this country.” And I was like, “Oh good. That’s nice.”

Drew: For The L Word, that’s the right choice.

Analyssa: For The L Word, that’s great.

Drew: I’m actually on… I think a lot of people really don’t want shows to take the pandemic into account or make work about the pandemic. I’m not of that mind. I actually am interested in seeing how different shows handle it. But I think it’s important to know what the tone of your show is. And Gen Q not having pandemic in the world is very much the right choice.

Riese: Yeah. Of course Grey’s Anatomy has to have pandemic in the world.

Analyssa: Riese, thank you so much for bringing up Grey’s Anatomy. That was important to me.

Drew: Yeah. So then the montage ends with Finley going to a liquor store.

Riese: Sad.

Analyssa: I’m so nervous for her.

Drew: I know. It’s not fair.

Riese: Yeah. Because now she’s just going to be on a bender and she’s not going to talk to Sophie about her feelings and everything is going to be wild and weird.

Analyssa: But luckily one direction things are not going to be wild and weird in is that Dani and Sophie are outside of the manor. And Sophie’s like, “I have to leave.” Where it doesn’t really feel mean or like they’re ending on bad terms, but it is just pretty final.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: And Dani says that—

Dani: I think we dodged a bullet, you and me.

Drew: They did.

Analyssa: And can confirm. But it’s also sort of like, maybe you could stay. I didn’t really… It was kind of-

Riese: I didn’t understand.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Because she was like, “But this feels easy,” or whatever. Does she mean now that we decided not to get married it’s easier to be around each other? Which yeah, of course. You were about to get married.

Analyssa: Because you two didn’t want to get married. And you didn’t want to get married.

Riese: Again, it was a bad idea. So of course. But also, what do you mean by… Does that mean you are going to keep seeing each other?

Drew: I don’t think she knows.

Analyssa: Yeah. It seems to have dropped into that weird, “Are we going to be friends who have a fraught history? Or are we…” Like it’s maybe going to be more explicitly romantic, but under the guise of — that sort of in between very-broken-up and very-together are these spectrum of, “Yeah, we’re just friends, but sometimes we joke about how we’ve seen each other naked.” Or, “We’re still hooking up, but we’re not together.” Those are all somewhere in the middle and I think they might be falling somewhere in there.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Oh yeah, and then I think the other thing is that when you’re in the center of a drama, it’s all you can think about. You’re like, “Everyone’s judging us and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” But in truth, no one cares anymore. Everyone cared about the drama when it happened but after that they’re just kind of everyone’s thinking about themselves. They’re not thinking about your drama.

Drew: Yeah. It’s a good lesson. And so with that, I don’t know if it’s really a cliffhanger as much as it is just a vague, sad couple breaking up, not fully committing to the breakup moment with that. It’s the episode.

Riese: That’s the episode!

Analyssa: Less of a cliffhanger, more of a small boulder rolling slowly down a cliff.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Exactly. Like a rolling stone gathering moss. Or not.

Drew: That is the expression. Okay, so what did we think about this episode?

Riese: I thought there was a lot of crying. By me.

Analyssa: This one was sad.

Riese: It was very emotional.

Drew: Yeah. The second episode is the one that I enjoyed the most, but I think this is the best episode of the season so far. Just from a character motivation, where the storylines are going, just everything. I pretty much felt the depth and the purpose to most of what happened this episode. And I did still enjoy a lot of it, even though it was sad. But you know, sometimes gays are sad.

Riese: Most, usually.

Drew: Yeah, usually. The main thing that I’m a little bit ugh about is the whole Marcus dying thing. I guess I don’t really get where they’re going with that, but I guess we’ll see. But other than that, I love the Bette-Pippa stuff.

Analyssa: Shocking.

Drew: Yeah. Shocking. Never on brand. And I don’t know. I’m excited to see where all these storylines go. This does feel like sort of a precursor to some of the more intense drama, and I’m excited to see that drama. I also love… I love a bubble. I love when Dani and Sophie, even though I don’t want them to be together, I’m always really fascinated by these moments that people carve out for themselves where you are away from your normal life and you just connect and have… Honestly, this isn’t the kind of show that The L Word is, but I would watch an hour long bottle episode that was just Sophie and Dani at the not-lake lake house. I love when shows do stuff like that. And so having even this little taste of it, I really enjoyed seeing their dynamic and it felt really truthful. And I really liked that aspect of it. Even if I’m not rooting for them, but that’s not going anywhere. There’s no future there.

Riese: I feel like they are really following through with having all these other smaller characters have bigger roles this time, like with Micah, with Maribel, with Tess. And that’s really great. I think it’s giving the show a lot more energy. And the thing with the Marcus thing is I wasn’t sure what she was going to say, because I was like, “There’s no way they’re going to find that Canadian actor and bring him back to the show.” But now that we’ve seen Lenore… Honestly, now that we’ve seen Lenore, I’m like, “Maybe they will.”

Analyssa: Now they’ve opened the box of ghosts of L Word past, they’re really digging in there.

Riese: Yeah. They sure are.

Drew: What person who’s in very few episodes would you love to see come back?

Analyssa: Cobie Smulders, that artist that she played. That’s just, that’s a personal thirst decision. That has nothing to do with the story.

Drew: Yeah. That’s how I feel about Melanie Lynskey coming back.

Analyssa: Cobie Smulders in that little white tank top?

Riese: Jamie.

Drew: Yeah. Well, she’s more of a character. I don’t feel like—

Analyssa: She wasn’t in that many, though. She didn’t really get into the group.

Riese: She was in like three or four episodes, season six. Which I feel like people forget.

Drew: That’s it?

Riese: Yeah. Because no one watches season six again. You saw it one time, you put it out of your mind.

Drew: I don’t know why, she really left an impression. Okay. I’m on board with you. Then yeah, bring back Jamie.

Riese: Yeah. I thought she only did a few episodes, also she worked at the LGBT center, so there’s no reason for her not to be there. I love that actress.

Drew: I’d like Lisa to come back, but it be recast as a trans woman.

Riese: As a trans woman. Yeah. That would be nice. But I mean, when they had Lenore it was like, Marcus might really be coming back.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: You know?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: It was impressive.

Riese: We’ll see.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here… Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Drew: My L word is love. Because—

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: Wow. Profound.

Riese: Love wins?

Drew: Because, in my love-hate relationship with The L Word, this week it’s skewed towards love. And maybe it’s because I’m in Canada and I’m in a good mood, but I was very on board for this episode. And I am happy to be happy with my chaotic friends once more.

Analyssa: Okay. Mine’s Lenore.

Riese: Oh, that’s mine too!

Drew: That’s so exciting though!

Riese: I was like, “Mine’s dumb. Just pick something dumb.” This is the first time I’ve ever — we’ve ever had two people picking the same word.

Analyssa: Really?!

Riese: Yeah. And what a word.

Analyssa: I was going to say, and I’m so happy it was her.

Riese: Lenore. Just here she is, with her lips.

Analyssa: We’re basically Shane right now.

Riese: Yeah. Basically.

Analyssa: Lenore on the mind.

Riese: One of many similarities. We have a private jet and we have Lenore on the mind.

Analyssa: And we’ve had the same haircut for 20 years.

Riese: That’s actually true. I have.

Analyssa: I have not, but—

Riese: Well I guess I had a little dyke-y haircut back then.

Analyssa: That’s because I’m a Sagittarius.

Riese: I’m a Libra.

Drew: And Shane isn’t.

Analyssa: Shane’s not.

Drew: Shane is probably a Pisces.

Analyssa: Documentedly a Pisces.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: We did a lot of research, which mostly led us back to Riese’s interview with Marja.

Riese: Well, I hope everyone has a nice weekend in Ojai.

Drew: I hope so too.

Analyssa: Find a lake house, if you can.

Riese: Yeah. Doesn’t need to have a lake.

Drew: Don’t sex with your ex. Unless you want to, and then you should. Have fun. Be safe out there, kids.

Riese: Bye!

Drew: Make good choices.

Analyssa: Bye.

“To L and Back” Gen Q Podcast Episode 203: Luck Be a Lady

Imagine with me, if you will, that you’re talking to someone really great and hitting it off. (Congrats, by the way, love that for you.) Maybe you’re on a date, maybe you’re chatting at a party or in the non-dairy milk section of your local grocery. Sparks might not be flying just yet, but the potential is there. It’s charged and exciting but also, nerve-wracking and could end with you embarrassing yourself in a big way. Are you with me here? In many ways…that’s what this episode of our beloved gay soap opera felt like!

Amid the break-ups, the make-ups and the new pairings we’re excited about, on this week’s episode of To L and Back (Generation Q…edition…), we also discuss the nuance required for meaningful conversations about tokenism and identity on television! Other topics include some ideas for a Bachelor / L Word crossover, some jobs Finley might actually be good at, and Angie’s baffling DNA test results. If none of those interest you, maybe Tess and Shane doing illegal things will?

SHOW NOTES

  • Riese’s recap for Episode 203
  • Drew live-tweeted her watch of Glee, I think you all deserve to see that
  • Some Autostraddle coverage of The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, the book I recommended to about 100 people
  • Drew has written about Magic Mike XXL before! And Riese has now watched it!
  • As Peggy Peabody popped into this pod episode briefly to explain, here’s some reading on Stendhal syndrome

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew!

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese!

Drew: And this is—

Drew, Analyssa, and Riese in unison: To L and Back: Generation Q!

Riese: Edition.

Analyssa: Edition?

Riese: I did say edition.

Drew: We’re doing the edition. I like that we’re sticking with edition.

Riese: Uh-huh (affirmative). I say edition.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I do the addition of edition.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, here we are. Another episode of The L Word: Generation Q, the sequel to the original series that changed so many lives.

Riese: Yeah. I love changed lives.

Drew: Yeah. I love gay changed lives, especially. This episode is episode 203. It is called “Luck Be a Lady,” which is actually the name of my favorite episode of the original L Word.

Riese: Really?!

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Episode 406?

Drew: Episode 406 is my favorite episode. It has the Bette Jodi sex scene, it has fun poker, it also starts with the really great—

Riese: Oh yeah, the phone chain.

Drew: Angela Robinson phone chain. It’s an incredible episode on television.

Riese: You’re correct.

Drew: Yeah. Either way, it’s a pretty bold move to name this episode after an original series episode, especially one that is so good. Yes, Riese? She’s raising her hand, that’s why I just called on her.

Riese: Okay. You guys, this is episode 203 and what’s 203 times 2?

Drew: 406.

Analyssa: Whoa. Okay. You’re getting to like Taylor Swift Easter egg level situation. Is that relatable to anyone or just me?

Drew: I got the reference, I think. This episode is also directed by Marja. So, is she directing the entire season? I don’t know, but so far she’s directed the first three, this episode is written by Maisha Closson, who has written on so much television, written Claws, How to Get Away with Murder, That’s So Raven, long career of TV writing.

Analyssa: That’s So Raven? Thank you for including that.

Drew: Yeah I know, seemed important. And yeah, and so I’m assuming, because of the name of the episode and because of what happened in the original “Luck Be a Lady,” there’s going to be some poker.

Riese: In the front.

Drew: Exactly. Should we get into it?

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: Let’s do it.

Riese: Let’s do it.

Drew: We start with Angie! She got her DNA test results back and she is excited to check them.

Riese: Math time!

Drew: Math. Yeah. I wasn’t as… yeah. So yeah. What do you want to say?

Riese: As the resident math person on the show, on the podcast.

Analyssa: Thank you for taking that on.

Riese: Yes. I’d like to submit for your evaluation the following puzzle. Angie has a biological mother and father. The mother is Tina Kennard.

Analyssa: Yep. I’m with you so far.

Riese: The father is Marcus Allenwood.

Analyssa: I’ve seen the first season of The L Word.

Riese: A father’s genetics cannot comprise more than 50% of the whole makeup.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: So whyst, I must ask. Why therefore is Angie 51% Sudanese, 20% European, 22% native American, and 7% other regions.

Drew: Feels like whoever was in charge of that graphic thought that Bette carried Angie. That would be the leap that I would make. And look, it takes a lot of people to make a television show, and sometimes things like that happen. I don’t think there’s actually an explanation. I prefer the mistake explanation than the Tina—

Riese: Having Native American heritage?

Analyssa: Tina gets her 23andMe back and she’s like, I’m 3% Sudanese, actually. And yeah, woof.

Drew: Oh god. I don’t want to live in that world. Tina’s bad enough.

Riese: Show us Tina’s test.

Analyssa: Yeah. Now I want to see every single person’s… Again, famously anti-23andMe, but I would like to see fictional 23andMes from all of these people.

Riese: Absolutely.

Drew: I can’t imagine that any of our main characters — well, not maybe any of them, but I’m just thinking like Tina, Alice, them getting a 23andMe test, there’s just so many ways that that could go wrong. And I’m really trying to stick with these characters as opposed to getting frustrated with them. So, I’m going to call this a whim that we maybe don’t get the details of the various characters. The really exciting thing about this is that Angie already has a message from someone named Kayla Allenwood, who is a relative of hers.

Analyssa: It happens really fast. It happens as though these tweens have the 23andMe app on their phone and are immediately responding to every match they get.

Riese: Gen Z stands for Generation Geneticz.

Analyssa: Great plan.

Riese: With a z at the end, geneticz.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah. ZNA.

Drew: That sounds like a really bad sci-fi novel. So speaking of… not speaking of really bad sci-fi novels, because Finley and Sophie are talking, but not about sci-fi novels. They’re talking about shitting your pants, and it’s fine but what’s really the main thing is that Finley and Sophie are cackling and having the time of their lives together.

Finley: Dude, so you’re telling me, you never shit your pants?
Sophie: Oh my God.
Finley: Oh dude. I shit my pants in the CVS.
Sophie: No you didn’t.
Finley: I shit my pants in my own bed. Yeah, I have problems, why do you think I’m coming in here in such a fucking hurry all the time?

Drew: And that’s really nice to see after all this time.

Riese: They’re sweeping?

Analyssa: Yeah, they’re cleaning up. It’s cute. Again, I feel like every conversation about The L Word, I’m like, “I wouldn’t have said this in my life, but sure, fine.” If I’m Finley and I think I may be in love with Sophie, but we haven’t actually become a couple yet, I might not talk about how many times I’ve shit my pants, but there’s something kind of charming about this.

Drew: Okay. But Finley’s type is exactly the type of very normatively attract… normative in the sense, like in a lesbian community sense, attractive person who just can get away with being disgusting and never think twice about it and people are just like, “Oh, Finley!” And you’re like, that person has never showered. And everyone’s like, “I love Finley so much!” That is Finley’s energy, so this felt very real to me.

Analyssa: 100%.

Drew: The number of times some hot cis blonde queer has talked to me about something where I was like, “I really wish you wouldn’t be sharing this, but by all means, you’re going to get away with it aren’t you?”

Riese: They’ll take really bad pictures of themselves and put them on Instagram in some subversive way and I’m like, “Ha ha, some of us look like that all the time.” Is this when Finley asks her to talk and she says—

Sophie: It’s too soon.

Drew: Incredible moment. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: It is.

Riese: And she’s like, “No.”

Drew: Yeah. She’s like, “It’s too soon.” Sophie’s expression is so good. What a great delivery of that. I really loved that.

Riese: When Sophie says it’s too soon to talk about your feelings, it’s too soon to talk about your feelings.

Drew: Yeah. I think that might be true.

Analyssa: Speaking of talking about feelings—

Riese: Nice.

Analyssa: Thank you so much, I’ve been working on that forever. Nat also wants to talk. So Alice is like, mournfully cleaning the house, she’s doing dishes and looking sad. And I was like, what has happened? And Nat comes in and is talking about how she slept with someone last night, and she’s very excited and Alice is deeply unexcited.

Riese: Right. She’s trying.

Analyssa: But sort of like tries to play along.

Riese: And failing.

Analyssa: Not well. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. It’s interesting the way that … just, God, the way they talk about polyamory in this episode, it’s interesting because it’s not like I fundamentally disagree with the way that they’re framing it. I do think that being polyamorous can be a part of your identity in a way that it’s unchanging, right? I do think that like… I don’t know, the weight that is, I guess it’s because they feel like their relationship’s on the line. But it’s just very interesting… I think they’re talking about polyamory like it’s a very new alien concept and that’s what’s bothering me, is that I just feel like even if Alice couldn’t handle polyamory, she would have a reference point for it. I just don’t believe at this point in… I mean we’ve even seen it. I mean, we’ve talked about this last episode, but I just can’t imagine a world where Alice has never tried polyamory with people who she doesn’t care as much about.

Riese: Or with Jamie and Tasha.

Drew: I mean, she even has so it’s like… but even in the gap years that we didn’t see, like I’m just like… or have just so many friends who are polyamorous that like, all of the way they talk about it, like it’s—

Riese: Like Shane.

Drew: Yeah. Like it’s this mystery is just very weird to me. And also Alice asks Nat to shower twice before they have sex, so that’s not a great sign.

Analyssa: Yeah. She is just not trying very hard, it feels like.

Drew: Mm-mm (negative).

Analyssa: We’ll talk about this more later, I’m sure. But I don’t think that polyamory is necessarily for everyone, but it doesn’t seem like Alice is giving it a shot at all. She’s just like, “This feels bad and I don’t want to do it.”

Drew: She’s not communicating that. And she would be much better if she said this feels bad. The problem is that her version of trying is not communicating. And one of the main things I would say about polyamory is you need to be communicating and so it’s just… I mean, that’s very realistic to me I think, is someone being like, “I’m good, I’m good, I’m good, I’m good” and then they’re just silently dying. And it’s like, that’s not the way to handle this. Alice should be like, here are the feelings I have. Also Nat’s already sleeping over at someone else… it just feels like they’re really accelerating this.

Riese: But it feels realistic that Alice is probably still trying to figure out how she feels. This is her first date.

Drew: Oh no.

Analyssa: For sure, yeah.

Drew: Oh, it totally feels realistic that Alice wouldn’t be good at communicating about this. I’m just giving her advice from the real world that she probably should actually communicate her feelings.

Riese: Free advice!

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I screamed in the next scene.

Drew: I also screamed.

Analyssa: I shrieked. Gigi and Bette are walking into a building and that’s not really important, what’s important is that Gigi’s hand is on Bette’s back and then she just fully grabs her ass in the lobby. Unreal.

Drew: Gigi is a really special person, to me and to all of us.

Riese: Yeah. First of all, Gigi is very thirsty as a person.

Drew: Yes. I really like that quality.

Riese: Which I appreciate. Yeah.

Analyssa: She wants to be as close to anyone she’s in a scene with as possible, and I relate to that.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Anyone sharing my space, I’m like, “Let’s sit closer? Put your face next to mine?”

Drew: If they’re hot.

Riese: And then Bette introduces her as her girlfriend.

Rudolfo Nùñez: Nice to see you again.
Bette: Nice to see you. Rudolfo Nùñez, this is my girlfriend, Gigi Ghorbani.

Riese: Which really surprised me, but also, I’m already jarred by the experience of seeing Bette in a normal relationship, where she went on a date with someone and they’re getting to know each other and now they’re doing things together. And she honestly doesn’t really seem that into it. I feel like — and maybe again, I’m projecting because I rarely have had relationships… I’ve had one relationship that just started with, “Oh, we met on a dating app, let’s go on a date. I guess we like each other, let’s start dating.” And the whole time I was like, wow, this is just very… I guess this is just a nice way to date someone where there’s no drama around it or some sort of intense fallout.

Drew: Yeah. I do like Bette’s version of that is getting set up on a blind date from her friend who was previously in a throuple with that person.

Analyssa: But there is some drama there.

Drew: A little bit… but yes, it is also very jarring to see Bette that way. And Bette is introducing Gigi to Dani and her dad because Gigi is a realtor and Dani’s looking to get her own place now that she’s moving out of her previously shared home with Sophie.

Riese: Are there any couples on The L Word that started with two people going on a date to see if they might like each other and then gradually building a relationship?

Drew: Like Dana and Lara.

Riese: Ah, yeah. Dana and Lara.

Analyssa: That’s a good poll. If I could ask a genie for one power in the whole world, it would be instant recall of L Word episodes so I could participate in these sorts of conversations. Unfortunately, my brain is Swiss cheese so I have no answer to your question.

Drew: I really think you should use the genie for something… you could literally be like, “I wish that Gigi was a real person and in my bed right now.” Don’t waste your genie wish.

Riese: You could wish for world peace.

Drew: Or that.

Analyssa: I think that’s probably against the genie rules. In my head the genie is like, “I can’t give you anything that will materially change your world or the world around you.” That’s a very low rent kind of genie situation.

Drew: Twenty four hours with Gigi seems like it might not change that much.

Riese: You could teleport.

Analyssa: I always said if I had a super power that I think invisibility would be ideal because you could just sneak onto airplanes instead of teleporting.

Riese: Oh, but then you’d have to be on the airplane.

Analyssa: That’s true.

Drew: And you have to just be like up against the wall, trying to not get bumped into by the cart.

Riese: I don’t have that kind of time. I just want to teleport.

Analyssa: Places to be, places to get.

Riese: Places to be, things to do, people to see, normal relationships to have.

Analyssa: Riese, that’s actually a great segue into the next scene, where Micah and Maribel—

Riese: My OTP.

Analyssa: They have things to do, places to be, people to see. Micah’s starting a new job! And Sophie’s sister went with him for moral support, and Riese’s OTP lives.

Riese: She loves it. She’s like, “There’s a coffee shop in the lobby, you should work here.”

Analyssa: I have interviewed at a place with a coffee shop in the lobby and I agree that people should work there if they can.

Riese: I mean also the psych ward has a coffee shop in the lobby.

Drew: Micah’s very worried about whether his shirt is good. And I really am obsessed with her shouting at him, as she’s leaving, being like,

Maribel: Micah.
Micah: Yeah.
Maribel: The shirt’s great. Everyone’s talking about it. They’re definitely talking about it.
Micah: Okay.
Maribel: That guy is talking about it.
Micah: All right, bye.

Drew: Very funny. And I really enjoyed that.

Analyssa: She’s so funny!

Riese: She’s so funny! Jinx!

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: And she’s really good at the sort of making-fun-of-you joke that doesn’t feel mean.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Analyssa: They’re writing that sort of… yeah, like, “Everyone’s talking about the shirt!” Or it comes back later, too. Like, she’s just like, you’re an idiot, but it turns out we kind of have a lot in common, like Sophie calls Finley stupid all the time and it never feels like actually mean, it’s just like, you’re so dumb.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So I like that about them.

Riese: Their family must be a riot.

Analyssa: They grew up together in a very fun home, it seems like, with their mom and grandma.

Riese: A lot of ribbing.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: Okay. Speaking of budding romances, we go to Dana’s. Dana’s hot and tot, grill and poker palace, where Tess is very upset because Shane wrote her a check for $5,000 and she’s not a charity case. And I think everyone’s just normalized being a charity case.

Analyssa: I think if somebody wrote me a check for $5,000, I’d say, thank you so much.

Riese: Thank you.

Analyssa: I will move on with… We’re never going to talk about that, that’s great.

Drew: Especially if your boss is rich, you take whatever money you can get from them, even if you want to fuck them so you want to be on equal level with them, you’re not on equal level, she’s your boss. So if you’re going to fuck her, you have to take the realities of that. And you know what, get $5,000 out of it.

Riese: Your mom is sick, you need the money.

Drew: Why not? Yeah.

Analyssa: I mean, Shane says that and Tess folds immediately, Tess is like “Oh, I was really worked up, but actually this is nice, I’m going to leave now, thanks.” That was fun. I love them together.

Drew: Yeah. The trio of Shane, Tess, and Finley at this bar is really good, it really works.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It is really fun. Finley continues to be horrible at this job, also. She just doesn’t have this in her, but that’s fine, I’m glad that they’re supporting her lifestyle. So then, Angie is sprinting to find Jordie and she tells her that she has a sister and that she’s really excited about it. And Jordie’s like, “Well, when are you going to tell your mom?” And Angie’s like, “I’m absolutely not doing that.” And then Jordie’s like, “Okay, great. Well, I’ll come with you to make sure you don’t get kidnapped.” Which is very sweet.

Drew: Yeah, it’s really nice. I would love to get some more time with Angie and Jordie. I know Angie’s storyline this year is not romance than it was last year, but I’d love to have a little bit more time, a little bit more time with them.

Riese: Yeah. Do you think Angie knows that her mother is an experienced kidnapper? Her actual mother, Bette Porter?

Analyssa: Yeah, do you think that she knows that she’s actually experienced a kidnapping before?

Riese: She’s actually already been kidnapped in the past? She was kidnapped on a drive. Bette Porter drove her from Whistler, Canada to southern California.

Drew: Bette and Tina don’t feel like they have the best boundaries, so I feel like they have in fact probably told her about this. I think they probably told her about everything. I wouldn’t be surprised if Angie was like, “Oh yeah, my moms once fucked in an elevator during a blackout.” I think she probably knows a lot.

Analyssa: She definitely knows too much, or at least more than I would want to know about my parents’ situations.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So back at Gigi being—

Riese: Castle in the sky.

Analyssa: Yeah. Thank you so much. She’s showing them a massive condo.

Drew: This apartment is incredible.

Riese: It is enormous.

Analyssa: It’s so big. I just mean it’s so big that it’s like, why call it that? It’s like the floor of a building.

Riese: It’s a mansion in a building. It’s a loft, it’s a large… it’s a penthouse. It’s a penthouse.

Drew: Yeah. I was briefly Wes Anderson’s assistant and his apartment in New York was the only time that I’ve ever seen an apartment that was more impressive than this.

Riese: Famously, Autostraddle, for our first nine months, worked out of a penthouse apartment in the Trump Towers because—

Drew: Wow. I didn’t know that I was in Trump Towers.

Riese: Yeah. Which is really, really cringe, but our COO for that period of time was working for a guy who lived in Miami, but had an apartment in the Trump Towers he never used, and it was wild and it was enormous and it was just a whole other way of life. And now Dani is going to get to experience it. But speaking of experiences that people have and other people don’t have, we find out that Dani speaks Farsi.

Analyssa: But basically it’s cute because it’s like, Gigi tells Dani, my dad was kind of the same as yours. He wanted me to own stuff, he wanted me to make money and be a homeowner. I don’t know. Kind of weird, but fine. And they have a bonding moment and then they all start speaking Farsi to each other and they’re kind of getting along, hitting it off. Dani’s dad loves it, Gigi kind of loves it, Dani loves… I don’t know. I thought it was fun even though I had no idea what they were saying.

Riese: And Dani seems to trust Gigi, like at the end of it, she’s like, okay. And in this moment, I switch my alliance and now I’m shipping Gigi and Dani.

Analyssa: Yeah, same.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I think they’re a better fit.

Drew: Absolutely. And because Dani’s dad’s being really pushy about her getting this apartment right now. And Gigi sort of turns to Dani and is like—

Gigi: Hey, we’ll do whatever you say.

Drew: And it’s like a really… it’s good.

Riese: Gigi is so good.

Drew: Gigi’s incredible.

Riese: At adjusting to the situation, at sensing what people need, at kind of like feel… She’s obviously a great real estate agent because that’s a lot of that, is sort of how to slightly manipulate people into buying properties.

Analyssa: And feeling soothed enough that they trust you and want to do the thing you want them to do, which is buy a property. The only other thing is that it seems insane that Dani’s dad wouldn’t want to see more than one place, but he’s immediately like, “Let’s just buy this.” He wants Dani to move on. So.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I think we’ll get to why in a little bit. But one other thing I’ll say about Gigi is just that, she’s chaotic in a way that’s like, controlled chaos and it is the best, it is my favorite type of person. Where it’s like, this person… she is the kind of person who is thinking about — whether it’s a throuple, whether it’s whatever she’s up to, in her head, she’s calculating everything and very aware of everyone’s emotions and very aware of her own emotions and then does the chaotic thing anyways. And that is, I think, how I lived my life and I love to see it on TV in someone so hot.

Analyssa: When they talk about aspirational television, that’s what this is. We’re going to rename the podcast To Gigi and Back, it’s fine.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Someone who is not in control of pretty much any situation in her entire life, Alice is playing foosball in her office and is in a Twitter fight with James Corden. Those are my first two notes.

Analyssa: Yeah. Mine says, “Alice is playing foosball and feuding with James Cordon,” so we both have the same—

Riese: Just a normal day in LA.

Analyssa: That’s what it’s like. I mean, I also beef with James Cordon, just now on Twitter because that would be amazing. I just personally—

Drew: Yeah, he doesn’t have a clue who I am.

Analyssa: But personally in my brain, every time he appears in a trailer for a movie musical, which is all of them, I beef with him.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: She is dreading her meeting with Tom, who I find myself kind of loving, I must admit.

Drew: I like him a lot.

Riese: I like him.

Analyssa: I like these fish-out-of-water characters they’ve introduced to the group this season. Tom and Carrie both being like, “You guys are fucking weird,” because I think it is a weird world. It’s very rich and very specific, and they’re all lesbians, obviously, or queer, but yeah. I like these new more sort of quote, “normal” personality types that are like, “This is weird. This is how you live?” Anyway.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But right now, Alice is talking to Sophie about… Well, Sophie’s pitching her segment ideas and then they pivot to talking about Nat, and we learned that Nat’s date was with Marissa, the trans woman from the last episode — well, trans actress from the last episode or from the first episode, and then Nat texts Alice saying, “Can I see Marissa again tomorrow night?” Which is pretty intense because I’m just like, isn’t Nat tired? And I’m also like, oh, so Nat doesn’t want to dabble in polyamory, Nat wants several partners. If you’re seeing someone twice within three days, she wants Marissa to be her girlfriend and Alice to be her girlfriend, and that feels like… I’m not saying that a monogamous person can’t be in a relationship with a polyamorous person, but I feel like maybe not with that kind of polyamorous person. That feels really challenging for Alice and the way Alice is, but Alice says, “No prob!” Which is because she does not know how to communicate.

Riese: Well, and also she can’t… I mean, I feel like maybe in a way I was in this situation and it’s like, I could handle being with a poly person who just wants to hook up with other people or whatever. That’s fine. I can handle that. But having full blown relationships with other people and kind of what this seems like, with Nat maybe is just really into new relationship energy and likes riding that high, like that, when I’ve done that, when I’ve tried to have that kind of relationship, it’s been incredibly difficult for me. And I also think that Nat probably should have set expectations a little more, or honestly should maybe take a few days off just out of respect for Alice. Just because she’s trying to ease her into this thing that she’s not sure about.

Analyssa: Yeah. I mean, I think this is a continuation of the thing from last season too, which is when Gigi and Alice and Nat kind of fell apart, because Nat just like… I don’t think it’s malicious, but I think she doesn’t really think about like, “Oh, I should set down. This is what I would like, and this is what that would look like for you. And how do you feel about that?” She’s like, “It was fun to hang out with Marissa. I’m really into her. I want to do it again and is my partner cool with that? Okay, great.” She’s just kind of bowling through it, which I do get is really tough for Alice.

Drew: Yeah. It feels like Nat should be solo poly. It feels like she should be her own primary partner, or she needs to be in a primary partnership with someone who very much has the same relationship to polyamory as she does because yeah, you’re right. She doesn’t seem to want to set ground rules or really talk that much about it, and that feels like a problem for a lot of poly dynamics.

Riese: Right. And it’s also further complicated by the fact that Nat has kids, and so when she goes out, Alice takes care of them and, which is fine, but also that is like… That’s another way of complicating it. Alice is kind of in a weird situation there where it’s not necessarily… It’s this weird… Because it doesn’t seem like Alice was super into being a mom, really, and she never really expressed a desire to have kids in the original series or this series. So I don’t think either of them are doing very good with this.

Drew: I think they’re also writing it in a way, I mean, I think based on the reactions and based on… It doesn’t feel like this is being written by people with a lot of experience with polyamory or with a lot of sympathy toward polyamory, in a way that I find a little bit annoying. I just am like, why does Nat have to be this person who’s bad at communication? I mean, I still think Alice probably would have struggled if Nat had been good at communicating and that could have been more interesting, I don’t know. But instead it just feels like, “Oh, these polyamorous people are so weird with their multiple dates a week and not knowing how to talk” and, it just, I don’t know, it feels just a little bit… I don’t really get why they’re choosing to frame it this way, but it’s fine. And Nat’s certainly not perfect because in the next scene, as she introduces Micah to the new job, she’s like, “We were looking for someone just like you.” And he’s like, “Oh, amazing,” thinking she meant someone who specializes in grief, and she obviously meant trans.

Riese: Why didn’t she just say that?

Drew: Oh, I mean, she absolutely wouldn’t say that. Don’t you think? I think cis person Nat would totally just be like, “Oh my God, we’re so happy to have you with your experiences,” with the words trans—

Riese: She would just dance around it?

Drew: Yeah, for sure. It seems like a good gig though. So that’s nice.

Analyssa: They have a coffee shop in the lobby, I’ve heard.

Riese: Yeah. They have a coffee shop in the lobby.

Drew: I’ve heard about that coffee shop. Yeah.

Analyssa: So, in the next scene, Dani is already signing papers. She’s back at the—

Riese: Manor.

Analyssa: The manor. Thank you. She’s back at the big manor. Some man in a suit, I’m sure, has handed her a pen. Her dad really wants her to sign all this stuff. He also wants her to date Gigi because she’s, quote, “adventurous and gutsy.” Personally, I want them to date because they’re both hot, but that’s just me. And then Dani’s dad is being supportive, but in a kind of weird way. He’s like, “I’ll give you anything in the house that you want to fill your apartment. I know you don’t have all your furniture,” and then he’s like, “Also while you’re signing stuff, here’s some other papers to sign,” and they’re a will, and power of attorney and a DNR and a bunch of other rich people I’m dying kind of paperwork, right? That’s the thing.

Drew: Yeah. At this point it was heavily implied that he’s dying, was my takeaway. That is not where, eventually, I will think the story is going, but at this point in the story, I was pretty sure that he was dying.

Riese: And I was like, come on, like give her… Her mom is dead. Her girlfriend fucked Finley in the green room, and then she ruined the wedding after they’d already paid for everything. Just give her a break.

Analyssa: Give Dani a break.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Give her a break.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: At least she has a ton of money, I guess. That can help when you’re going… I mean, it sucks to have all of that and be poor.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: I fully forgot that people could buy an apartment. When she was signing it to buy it, I was like, oh, she’s not just signing a lease? Oh right, people buy apartments. Cool. Right. Yeah.

Riese: It takes a little longer than that, but yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Can’t really process it day of, I don’t think. It takes like a month.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Riese: But I love TV.

Drew: Yeah. We then go to one of my favorite things, which is Bette and art and now with added Gigi. So it’s really just a real dream for me, personally.

Analyssa: And both wearing great jackets, I want to say.

Drew: Of course. Of course.

Riese: I didn’t like Bette’s jacket.

Analyssa: I don’t remember right now, but I did write that Gigi and Bette are wearing great jackets and holding hands, so good for them.

Riese: Her arm was 50% cuff.

Analyssa: Oh, I kind of liked that.

Riese: Which is a common thing they do. Whenever they look at Bette, they think we need more in the forearms. We think more fabric in the forearms and then they wrap her arm in gauze and they puff it up. That’s her style.

Analyssa: Yeah. Something about Bette’s costuming is more on the arms, more on the collar, more on the hem. That’s the Bette Porter way.

Riese: More, more, more, more, more.

Analyssa: Yeah. Anything on the edges of her clothes, they’re like, yes. Keep going.

Riese: And Bette’s like, “Art, art, art, art,” and I think Gigi’s like, “Mm-hmm,” but mostly is excited about Bette.

Analyssa: Yeah. Gigi’s like, “Bette, Bette, Bette, Bette, Bette.”

Drew: Yeah. Gigi’s like, “How do you know when abstract art is good?” And Bette’s like, “Does it move you? Does it change you? Does it catch your eye?” And then, Gigi is like, “You catch my eye.” And I was like, “No Gigi!” It gave me the same vibes as if I’m showing a movie to someone and they want to make out during it, I’m like, no, you really even pass this test. I mean, there’s no movie that I’d rather watch than making out with Gigi. So to be fair, I think she can pull it off. But theoretically, no. Show interest in your girlfriend’s interests, get excited along with her. I don’t know. That’s just, I think for Bette and for me, I think that was an important thing for someone you’re dating to do. They don’t have to have the same interests, but if you’re at a thing with a person, put some effort into understanding, if not the thing, their excitement about the thing.

Analyssa: Right. It’s the difference between when someone you’re dating is, when you’re rambling about something you’re really excited about, and they’re like, “Oh, you’re so cute when you talk about this,” versus “I love listening to you talk about this.” Those are different vibes and Gigi’s is very much doing, “You’re so hot when you talk about art,” and I think Bette wants somebody to be like, “I could listen to you talk about art all day,” and it’s a very subtle difference, but Bette does react pretty weirdly.

Drew: Yeah. The good thing is that Bette starts crying at art again. One of the best things to see is when Bette has just… What’s it called? In that one episode…

Riese: In the Peggy Peabody episode? Stendhal.

Drew: I can’t remember what the word is. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. When art something, blah, blah, blah. Peggy Peabody says it better than I could ever say it.

Peggy Peabody: You know Stendhal?
Bette: The French art critic?
Peggy Peabody: He went to Florence, he saw the Caravaggio.
Bette: And he burst into tears, and then he fainted. The work of art was so beautiful and moving, he couldn’t withstand the impact. The Stendhal Syndrome.

Riese: But I do think this is really when I’m like, they don’t click. They just don’t click. And I feel like Bette either needs someone like Tina, who’s going to lap up her every word, and now Tina’s an art expert too and knows the name of this dealer or whatever the fuck, or she needs someone like Jodi, who is going to just be sparring for dominance, who’s going to be challenging her and pushing her. And I feel like Gigi’s kind of in between those in a way that’s not really going to work. But Bette is, I guess, lonely. Actually Bette hates being single.

Drew: Yeah. Bette’s never been single.

Analyssa: Bette is really moved by an artist named Pippa Pascal, who I didn’t have any recognition of, but we will hear more about later.

Riese: Yeah. She’s not a real artist in the real world.

Analyssa: Right. But the way she says it, I was like, oh, am I supposed… Again, I remind you that I have a Swiss cheese brain, and so I was like, am I supposed to remember this? Do I know who this person is? Anyway.

Riese: What we do know from meeting the news of the world is that Pippa Pascal is going to be played by Vanessa Williams, but there’s more than one Vanessa Williams, and it’s not the one that you’re thinking.

Drew: Incredible. So Micah brings home pizza, which is so exciting.

Riese: Maribel is there and Finley’s there, and Micah’s talking about his thing and Maribel is so funny. She just prods at him about it or pokes him about it, and it’s just like, ask for what you want.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. Here’s the thing, I really hate that I feel like I’m the downer of this podcast, but in my defense, I am trans, I just—

Analyssa: I have this note too, I think.

Drew: I just don’t understand why it’s framed oppositionally instead of commiserating. She’s like, “Oh, boohoo, you were treated poorly. I wanted a pony as a kid. I didn’t get that. Life sucks.” And it just was like, okay, Micah’s talking about transphobia that he experienced, and then later in the conversation, he says that it’s just demoralizing, and she’s like, “No, what’s demoralizing is a white lady lifted me out of my chair this week.” And I don’t know why they wrote it to be a contest between them instead of a commiseration and making it be like one thing is potentially worse than the other. It just feels sort of gross to me, and also just ignores disabled trans people, and I just never like when identity is discussed this way, and it didn’t really feel… I like that Maribel is someone who teases, and that’s really fun, and that banter is fun and usually it’s really fun, but in this scene I just was sort of like, I don’t understand why it’s being framed this way.

Analyssa: Yeah. I had that thought too. I have that in my notes too. It’s very fun to me to have a character like Maribel who’s like, “Just listen. Life is hard and what you need to do is just kind of buck up.” I can see that as sort of being her personality, but the few lines, and Drew, I think you’re right, it just didn’t need to be framed this way that were like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah. You think you have it hard, but I have it hard all the time,” is a weird line to draw in the sand. I mean, I think it’s similar to the things we’ve pointed out in some of these other big conversations. Bette being like, “I want bonuses for white artists too,” or like, “Bisexuality and polyamory are the same thing.” Trying to get into these bigger things in a character dialogue way sometimes leads to them feeling a little flip and actually not handled the best, which in conversation, you might do that, but that’s a real person talking instead of someone who got written and edited and cut together a bunch of times. You know?

Riese: Yeah. I think it reminded me a little bit of that conversation with Bette. Because I felt like the way they were framing it with Micah was Bette was insulted by the idea that she would only be interested in BIPOC artists, and then they also wanted to frame Micah as being insulted by the idea that he would be helping trans clients. And I feel like that’s an interesting way to address tokenism. I didn’t feel… I was like… And obviously I am the white cis person on this podcast, so my opinion matters the least. They wanted to address tokenism, but I just don’t think they did a very good job. I don’t think they picked good circumstances from which to explore that.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yeah. I agree with that. And it’s just… I don’t know. Because if Finley is apologizes on behalf of all white women—

Riese: And they both just roll their eyes.

Drew: Yeah, but also they’re talking about ableism and transphobia, so I’m just like, would it kill them to use the word cis? Would it kill them to use the word abled? It just was, that felt really strange to me because I was like, yeah, Maribel specifies that a white lady picked her up out of her chair and it’s just like this conflation of otherness or just… I don’t know. I was just very frustrated throughout this scene. And I mean, because it’s clear that Micah and Maribel are going to like… I don’t know where their relationship’s going to go, but it is clear that they’re going to be paired together and maybe something’s going to happen. So maybe it will be handled well. I hope it is. I just, I think there’s such a great opportunity to show this trans abled person with this cis disabled person and the ways in which they don’t understand each other, the ways in which they do understand each other by being othered from this community, and it’s all something we really have never seen, at least not a ton of. And so I just hope they do it right. And this scared me a little bit as a starting off point.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. We’re in an era of TV that feels like, not to get too close to being canceled on the internet, but that feels very much like it has to moralize or talk about representation in a way that’s like, this is right and this is wrong. And it’s just like, we could’ve just not put this line in and it would have been a thing where Maribel is challenging Micah on, “You’re being kind of whiny about it and you haven’t even talked to Nat. Why don’t you go do that?” And that’s just a slightly different conversation that colors their relationship as one that is pushing each other to grow instead of arguing about who has a harder day and how to win at that.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: Well, speaking of politics and art and how things, sometimes, the industry just isn’t really made for people who aren’t cis and white and abled, and so Bette is super excited about Pippa and is talking to Gigi and is just so excited about it and is giving all this backstory about her and it’s very cute. Honestly. If Bette was my girlfriend and was this excited about art, I would die.

Analyssa: This was very cute. And they do a really cute hug and Gigi is like, “Do you want to go back and look at it again?” And Bette’s like, “Yes,” and they go and that was sweet.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Analyssa: Back on the set of The Alice Show, Tom is talking to Alice about how she met Nat, what their relationship is like, what they’re doing now with being open, why the throuple didn’t work out. He has somehow zeroed in on exactly what is going to bother Alice the most to talk about today, and that’s what they’re talking about.

Riese: I think he wants her book not to suck.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah. Which I respect, also.

Analyssa: But there have to be other stories in that book that we could have talked about on today of all days.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, he’s just not helping the situation because he’s very much… I believe that this cis straight guy doesn’t know a lot about polyamory and so this all checked out. This felt like when I talked to my family about polyamory and they’re just like, “What?” And so it honestly felt very real to me, Tom’s reaction, and I was like, are Alice and Tom going to hook up?

Riese: I started to think that too!

Drew: There was a vibe and I was like, “I’m into this. Okay.”

Riese: I kind of am too.

Analyssa: It felt very flirty.

Riese: I feel like they might do a thing where one of them kisses the other one in a moment that they’re misjudging, whether or not, and then it gets really awkward. That’s what I’m predicting for them. But I also sense this tension, but yeah, you’re right. When I was dating someone who was poly, I knew that if I mentioned it in any scenario, besides the queer community that they would respond with some anecdote that was unrelated and about how they couldn’t do it. And oh, that’s so weird. And I’m like, “Thanks for your input.”

Analyssa: “Okay. Thank you.”

Drew: Speaking of people freaking out about things they don’t need to be freaking out about, Bette gets home early, basically Angie gets caught, and has to tell Bette about the DNA test.

Riese: With a box of childhood photos.

Analyssa: She gets caught with family photos, incriminating evidence.

Drew: No, but here’s the thing, I liked the fact that I think Angie could keep some things. There’s a difference to me between keeping something secret and lying. So I think once sort of caught, Angie was like, “I need to tell Bette about the 23AndMe and about my sister,” and so that, I really liked that. But then Bette starts freaking out, Gigi arrives and is like, “Angie seems right.” She’s very reasonable, but also I really liked this because I really like when people are like, “I’m going to say the real opinion, not the opinion that my partner wants.” And then when Angie’s like, “Who’s here?” Bette’s like—

Bette: No one.

Drew: And Gigi’s like—

Gigi: Wow. So yesterday I was your girlfriend and today I’m no one.
Bette: Oh Jesus. That’s not what I meant. All I meant was it’s really not a good time to meet her.
Gigi: Really. That’s all you meant? Because that felt like a lot more.
Bette: Okay. I can’t deconstruct your feelings right now.
Gigi: I’ve never asked you to deconstruct anything of mine, let alone my feelings.
Bette: Okay.
Gigi: You have a great day.

Riese: Again, Bette doesn’t like relating to people. Bette likes relating to art. She doesn’t like relating to other humans. If another human suggests that they have an experience anywhere similar to Bette’s, she just rejects it. And Gigi’s like… It’s not unusual for Gigi, the other non-biological mother of her children to suggest maybe these things are happening and Bette just shuts it down. So again, this isn’t going to work. It’s not going to work. It just feels like they’re dating because they think they’d be a good match in the same way that we thought they would be a good match.

Drew: Yeah. I think that’s true. I mean, look, I’m really grateful for that sex scene. And sometimes that’s what a relationship is. You’re really grateful for a sexual experience, and then you really realize you have to move on and that’s what it is.

Riese: You’re like, “We had a great sex scene.” They had two great sex scenes.

Analyssa: They’ve had a hot, beautiful time and now they need to part ways, I think.

Riese: Yeah. Some great episodic stills came out of this.

Drew: But what Gigi says does stick with Bette because she tells Angie that she’ll help her and go with her to meet her sister. So, that’s—

Riese: Yeah. Well, like Bette’s going to let her do that without her.

Drew: Right? No, but she might try to ground her or keep her, she might push back longer, so.

Riese: Remember when she grounded her and took her to the campaign HQ? Were we ever so young?

Analyssa: She also calls Tina, right, and leaves a voicemail. Presumably Tina, and leaves a voicemail.

Riese: Do you think that every time she has a reason to call Tina, she gets a little bit excited?

Analyssa: Yes. That was exactly… She pushed Gigi out the door and then her first thought was calling Tina, and I was like Bette, you just really wanted to call Tina so bad. Immediately.

Drew: I mean, every time she has an excuse to call Tina, a lot of people in my Twitter mentions are also really excited. And you know what? I think that’s great for all of you.

Riese: Probably when Tina comes over, Bette steals her sweater that she leaves on a chair so she can call her later and be like, “I think you left your sweater on my chair.” Come back and stare at me and not say anything.

Analyssa: Bette’s trying to loan Tina books on the way out so that she has to come back and return it to her.

Riese: Yeah, and then she’s like, “I need The Scarlet Letter back.”

Drew: Yeah. Tina’s like, “Bettina is over,” and Bette’s like, “It’s Tibette!”

Drew: Well, speaking of kids working out their issues, Micah is seeing a client and then is talking to Nat about it, and says that he asked the kid if he’d asked his parents about making a “chemical transition,” which I’ve never heard that used before. I don’t know if it’s because it’s… I’ve always heard “medical transition.” I don’t know if you’ve heard “chemical transition,” and that’s also a proper term? Let me know.

Riese: I think it’s if you have sodium and oxygen and niacin in your body, they take it out and they put in calcium and maybe some sort of morphine. Is that a chemical? I’m just saying words, and then it’s just like… It’s sort of like chemistry class, and then everything goes into a beaker, and then it kind of bubbles up all over. And then it’s like, “Oh, it’s a volcano!” And then you’re a person.

Drew: Yeah. I think, when I was in chemistry class, I read The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy under my desk. I don’t actually remember a lot from chemistry itself, but it wasn’t really a science kid.

Riese: I wrote poems.

Drew: Yeah, that sounds right.

Analyssa: I did a fun experiment where I made flames turn different colors, based on what element you put in the flame.

Riese: Wow!

Analyssa: I was kind of a science kid.

Drew: That’s cool.

Riese: I memorized state nicknames, and wrote poems.

Drew: That’s nice. Well, Micah confronts Nat about only seeing trans clients. And then Nat’s like… It was like, “Oh, my bad. Like I’m… How embarrassing. That’s on me, blah, blah, blah.” So it works. I know it’s my job to unpack this, but I’m honestly pretty tired. But I’ll do my best. I guess what I just want to say is that everyone gets to have sex and cheat and have chaos. And I know Micah has a little bit of that with José, but the main screen time we’ve spent with Micah and José was Micah explaining trans stuff to José. Then it was Micah explaining trans stuff to his mom. And it was Micah explaining trans stuff to his boss. And I’m like what if Micah started working for Nat, and then they fucked? Because Nat’s clearly horny, and she’s got a very organized schedule of fucking random people. What if that had been the storyline? I just am like why does the trans character have to have every storyline be about oppression or navigating these things? I mean, I guess if my life was filled exclusively with cis people who didn’t know a lot about transness, that would be what it is, but that’s… Most trans people don’t make their lives that way, especially living in major cities and whatever. So I just… It doesn’t feel… I think I’m just like that’s what I’m frustrated about. And it makes me, honestly, despite fighting so hard for Tess to be trans, and Jordie to be trans, I sort of give up, in the sense that I’m sort of happy that they’re not because… And I get that’s probably what Jamie was thinking, and it’s frustrating to me because I actually don’t think it’s an either/or. I think you can have a character that… It’s literally just not that hard for there to be a line here or a line there that feels grounded and realistic and specific, and while a character is still getting to be a full person. But, apparently, that is too hard for, I think, most writers’ rooms nowadays, especially ones that are populated almost entirely by cis people. And so, it’s like, I’m so happy that we get to watch Jamie Clayton have a character that is full and complicated. And I know what Leo can do. And he’s good in the scene and he’s good, but I just… It’s just frustrating that I don’t feel like he’s necessarily getting the storylines that are fun, and can show what he can do, and can just let him be hot and complicated, like everyone else on the show. And who knows where… Again, we are getting like it seems like a future romance with him and Maribel. So maybe we’ll get that. But I’m like, do I trust their ability to write trans people or disabled people? Not really. So, I’m a little bit… I’m more like I want to be excited about it because I really like both of the actors, and I think they have a lot of chemistry. But I’m also just sort of nervous and exhausted. Again, he doesn’t have to be like… If he’s not… I mean, we’ve seen that he is sexual. But every character doesn’t have to be a slut, but it is just like let him be… I just… Anyways, I want the fun. We’re about to get into a scene right after this that is so fun, and is everything I love about the show. And it’s just like what if trans people—

Analyssa: Got to do that?

Drew: Yeah. And so, what that scene is, is a Dani-Gigi scene, our new favorite ship. Dani arrives at Gigi’s office to get the keys to her new home, and Gigi says…

Gigi: Hey, lady.

Drew: And I… It’s so funny because, actually, I have a few friends who refer to me, and I refer to a lot of people as lady, and so… And it’s fine when they do it. But I also… Sometimes people will “Lady” me, and it feels like a cis person trying really hard to validate me in a way that I’m like, “Mm, I don’t need that.”

Riese: How do you feel about Lady and the Tramp?

Drew: Famously about a T4T couple of dogs. So, yeah. I’m into that.

Analyssa: Famously.

Riese: Also has erotic spaghetti-eating, like Blue Is the Warmest Color.

Drew: That’s true. I would… Oh, my God. I would Lady and the Tramp with Gigi any day. But when she said, “Hello, lady,” like I died. I was like, “This is really doing it for me.” There’s like the top, top, top love triangle that’s happening here. It’s just like it’s so intense. There’s so much earth and fire happening, and I’m just very into all of it.

Analyssa: Yes. Very earth and fire sign forward situations unfolding. Anyway, Gigi is like, “Here’s the keys to your new place. Like, you want to throw out the keys to your old place? Also, I’ll show you around the neighborhood,” which is beyond her job description as a realtor, I’ll say. Drew and I just signed a lease, and you know who didn’t ask us to be shown around the neighborhood? Our property manager.

Drew: Wow! Wait. Is our property manager hot?

Analyssa: No. Absolutely, he’s not hot.

Drew: That’s so disappointing. Oh, right. I forgot. He’s also a man. You know, some people’s thing, but not usually mine.

Drew: And I would like to say, as I always feel the need to clarify that hotness is an energy.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’s not really about a specific way to look. Hotness is an energy. Anyone can be hot if they have the personality for it.

Riese: Like the beast in Beauty and the Beast.

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: Thank you.

Drew: He’s pretty abusive. But if that does it for you, Riese. Not… I’m not your therapist. I’m just your friend.

Riese: Okay.

Drew: So we can talk about it later, but—

Riese: It doesn’t do it for me.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: I was actually referencing the television program, Beauty and the Beast. It aired in the 80s.

Drew: Oh!

Riese: Yeah. You guys missed it because you were not even a fetus yet. I was there for it. I don’t remember it, but I know that it happened, and my mother watched it. And now she’s gay.

Drew: Well, that seems… That’s… I mean, look—

Analyssa: Important work.

Drew: That’s all we need to know. So, speaking of throwing keys, Sophie gets home, flops her keys down, and there is no table there. Honestly, there was a lot of silliness to the scene, but all of it really worked for me. I thought it was so funny.

Riese: I love this scene.

Drew: Yeah. And especially when Sophie asks for red pepper, and Finley’s like, “Dani took that too.” Like full cackle out of me, like very stupid, very funny.

Finley: We got pizza though. There’s an upside.
Sophie: Can you pass me the red pepper, please?
Finley: She took the red pepper.
Sophie: You’re fucking kidding. Really? Jesus Christ!

Riese: Dani took everything. And Finley’s just so good at keeping it light, you know?

Drew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Riese: You know?

Analyssa: Yeah. She’s very like, “We will figure this out. Like, it’s fine. I know it looks bad. Don’t look over there, but we will fix it.” And I think that’s good. I think also, with Sophie, Finley just commits to… Even though Finley is constantly cracking jokes, she’s never getting deep into her emotions, exactly. She still is committed to acknowledging that the emotions are there, and being like—

Riese: That’s true.

Analyssa: “This must suck, but here’s a joke about it.” Whereas something we had such an issue with last season with Dani was Sophie would be feeling something and Dani would just be like, “I don’t have time for that,” or like, “I can’t engage with that,” or like… You know what I mean?

Drew: Right, right.

Analyssa: She was so removed from that. And Finley doesn’t deal with emotions in a way that is like… She’s not great at this, but she is doing it, which I think is cool of her.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And then we have a wonderful moment, for me, personally.

Analyssa: I knew that you would like this moment.

Riese: Which is, they sort of like… Then they get into it because everything that’s happening. And Finley is like, “I thought I was doing the right thing. You know, like I thought I was saving you.” And then, Finley walks out, and then Sophie, really quiet, just like, “You did.”

Finley: I thought I was saving you, dude.
Sophie: You did.
Finley: Excuse me?
Sophie: Ah… Nothing! What?
Finley: What did you just say?
Sophie: Nothing! What?
Finley: No, no—
Sophie: No!
Finley: No, no, no! You said—
Sophie: Nothing.
Finley: Something! What did you say?
Sophie: No, I didn’t say anything!
Finley: I know. I heard it! What did you say?
Sophie: I didn’t say anything at all!
Finley: What did you say?
Sophie: I didn’t say—
Finley: Tell me!
Sophie: Okay, fine! You saved me, okay? You fucking saved me.
Finley: Okay, so you are saying something nice, but in a mean way.
Sophie: Yeah.
Finley: It’s confusing.
Sophie: Well, I’m confused.

Riese: And that’s the first acknowledgement we’ve had from Sophie since this happened, that she does know that her relationship with Dani was bad, and that Finley did save her from it, although obviously not in the best way to do so. The better way would have been, of course, for Sophie to tell Dani, “I hooked up with Finley. Also, we should break up.” But it’s television.

Analyssa: And we’re long past that now.

Riese: Yeah, we’ve gotten past that.

Drew: Yeah. I also do want to say about this scene that I do think it was within Dani’s rights as the wronged party to take all of the material things.

Riese: Absolutely.

Drew: Like when I broke up with my ex, and like… I mean, I also was moving across the country. But I really just left all of our stuff to her. I was just was like, “Yeah, my TV’s your TV now. Everything’s yours.” And I was like that just feels… I didn’t even do anything bad. I just broke up with someone. But I still was like, “I ended it. You get to keep the stuff.” And I don’t think that has to be the case for everyone. But I think, for me, generally, I’m like, “Ah, yeah. This just seems like you’re sadder than me. You keep the stuff.”

Analyssa: My only counterpoint to that is that Dani is much richer than Sophie.

Riese: That’s true.

Drew: This is true.

Analyssa: Dani could populate a brand new apartment with all sorts of stuff that is new and doesn’t have the memory of Sophie, who she said she never wants to talk about again, in her apartment.

Drew: No, I don’t think Dani’s keeping any of the stuff. I think she’s throwing it away, which yes, obviously—

Analyssa: Okay, that’s worse.

Riese: Maybe she’s taking it to Goodwill.

Analyssa: But then, let Sophie have it.

Drew: Sophie didn’t just break up with Dani though. Sophie fully did not disclose that she cheated. And then they were about to get married, and the person she cheated with showed up there in a fucking hat.

Riese: Dani can take the red pepper.

Drew: Generally, I would be on the side of the person with less money getting to keep the belongings. But, in this situation, I think the way that it was handled was bad enough that I return to my previous stance, which is, person who… The wronged party gets to keep the stuff.

Analyssa: Fine. I won’t argue this, but I hope Sophie knows I was on her side.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wait. But there’s one more thing in this scene, which is that Finley asked Sophie to forgive her. And Sophie’s like, “I don’t know how.” So there’s like some—

Drew: Right. Yeah.

Analyssa: Or like stuck, kind of.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of people who have great chemistry.

Riese: Nice! Pony play!

Drew: Yeah. Well… My goodness, I think Micah is taking Maribel to ride a horse because of the story about the pony, which is very sweet. And I did say in my notes, “Let them fuck! Ride Micah after!” So, you know, we’ll see, we’ll see.

Riese: Pony play. It’s time for pony play. Everybody knows it. Everybody is at home, and that’s what they’re waiting for.

Analyssa: I think it’s very funny that Maribel is like, “I was just telling a story from when I was a kid.” I really relate to that. I say shit all the time that’s like… People are like, “Oh, you really mean that.” I’m like, “No, I was just talking to hear my own voice.”

Riese: It’s such a proverbial thing, the pony. The ponies are what little kids want and don’t get. It was like… And I felt… I do feel like they didn’t really explore that enough, in terms of, from a humor perspective, but it’s fine. Or pony play.

Riese: Speaking of wish fulfillment.

Analyssa: Nice. That’s a good one.

Drew: Shane, Alice, and Bette take Angie to meet her sister, Kayla.

Riese: I love this for them!

Analyssa: I love this. This is so fun.

Drew: This is really cute. I honestly wish we could spend more time. I wish we could have seen the conversation between Angie and Kayla.

Riese: What the fuck?

Drew: But instead, we like… Instead, we cut to the trio, they’re talking about it. And it’s like, that’s fine. But I was like, “Wait. What are… They look like they’re getting along. I want to spend some time with that.” Hopefully, she’ll be reoccurring, and we’ll get more time later. But I was like, “Wait. I want to get… I want to get inside. You’re very much putting me in Bette’s headspace right now because I want to get inside and hear them. I want to see what my daughter is talking to her sister about.”

Riese: Also, Bette telling Alice to just shut it down, the thing with Nat, is also just an incredibly typical thing for somebody who’s never considered non-monogamy, but probably should, would say to somebody who’s trying to see if poly can work for them and their partner. Because Alice is like, “Well, I can’t really, but…” They have witty banter.

Drew: Yes, no, it was very enjoyable. I always enjoy when the three of them are together.

Riese: They should have put sound like in the FBI or in shows that Drew won’t watch, where people are in the van and they’re listening on the headphones. They should have done that for this. And then we could have gotten both things at the same time.

Analyssa: Yeah, that I could have listened to the trio responding to what Angie and Kayla were saying, which would have been fun.

Riese: Exactly. Like Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Drew: I’m happy for Angie that Bette wasn’t eavesdropping on her though. I’m going to throw that out there.

Riese: Yeah, that’s true.

Analyssa: I did get teary-eyed, embarrassingly, when Angie was like, “That’s my family out there.” I thought it was so sweet.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: Oh, yeah. That’s so cute.

Drew: Yeah. That was really nice.

Riese: Because they are. And Tina wasn’t there though. Where’s Tina?

Analyssa: Tina was not there. Also, I thought it was very silly that Bette was like, “They kind of look alike, right?” It’s like, yeah, they definitely do.

Riese: They’re related.

Analyssa: They’re related, and they’ve been cast to specifically look alike. Yeah.

Riese: Right. Tina wasn’t on the call sheet this week, I guess.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: No. Neither was Rosie.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Back for our horseback riders. They’re on the horses, and—

Riese: Majestic.

Drew: The real takeaway from — oh, yes. Very majestic. And the real takeaway from this is that Micah’s like, “We should do this again sometime,” meaning like a date, not ride horses, I think? Unless that’s just going to become a thing.

Riese: No, it’s riding each other like horses.

Analyssa: Riding horses as a date is a very important—

Riese: Bachelor.

Analyssa: … Bachelor. Thank you, Riese. Yes, you knew exactly what I was going to say. Important Bachelor rite of passage. And if the mantle I have to wear is continuing to bring up like extremely heterosexual media on this podcast, that’s fine. I’m queering heterosexuality by watching The Bachelor, actually.

Drew: Honestly, brave.

Analyssa: Thank you so much.

Drew: Very brave.

Analyssa: Anyway. I wish we could see all The L Word pairs on Bachelor dates. They could go to an empty amusement park, where a country singer you’ve never heard of does one song for them. Drive a convertible around Los Angeles, and then go shopping in a really expensive store. They could—

Riese: Romantic.

Drew: That’s the one I always want. Like, okay. Oh, you don’t get picked? Well, you have like $5,000 worth of great clothes now. Who cares about the man?

Analyssa: Yeah. And when you go on The Bachelor or Bachelorette, you have to bring all of your own clothes anyway. So, if you get to go out on a fancy date where you get a bunch of stuff, then that’s fun.

Riese: Yeah, exactly.

Analyssa: You leave with more clothes than you brought.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Speaking of clothes, Tess looks amazing in this next scene. She’s getting out of the car. She’s walking into the poker game. She’s telling two women who want to go to Dana’s Poker Palace that it’s closed for the night because they are doing a private event.

Riese: God, those girls are so pissed, probably, about the Lyft and everything.

Analyssa: For sure, I know.

Riese: And they’re pre-partied. Now they’re just going to go to Akbar.

Drew: That happened to me at—

Analyssa: I was just about to say they’re in a good location. They can walk to some other bar. It’ll be fine. But I would be mad. Also, is it lucrative enough, this poker game, to shut down the bar for all night? Whatever. I don’t need to get into it.

Riese: I think high-stakes poker is very lucrative.

Drew: Yeah. That makes sense. All I know is that once I was going to the bar where they shoot Dana’s and it was closed. It was closed for a private event. And me and the person I was with had to turn around and not go there. And then we just walked around Echo Park.

Riese: Maybe they were filming this scene at that moment.

Drew: No, this was in 2019, so…

Riese: You guys, I think the last time that the three of us were in the same room was at this bar.

Drew: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: Is that true?

Riese: I think so. Because wasn’t that like—

Drew: I think that… Yeah, that is true.

Riese: … It was like in February they had that.

Drew: It is true.

Analyssa: Wow! At Dana’s. What a fun hangout for queer women in LA.

Drew: I know.

Riese: Are we going to Gigi-Dani?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Still shipping. I’m just riding this ship all the way into the sunset.

Drew: Yeah. This whole scene is excellent. One, I love how much information we find out about Gigi.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: We get some family background that her dad doesn’t really accept her. She’s super close with her mom. She mostly gets along with her seven brothers.

Analyssa: So, Gigi and Dani are on a date. They’re like… Well, they’re not on a date.

Riese: Is it officially a date?

Analyssa: They’re hanging out.

Riese: This should be a date.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But then, a man comes over and starts flirting with Gigi. And she’s — in Farsi, so I’m assuming, she’s like, “I’m a lesbian. We’re here together.”

Analyssa: And then she… Does she say it in English? Like, “We’re on a date.”

Drew: Yeah. Well, she says to Dani, she was like…

Gigi: Sorry, I know this isn’t a date, but it’s the fastest way to get rid of them.

Analyssa: What was great about not having subtitles in this scene is, as many people, I’m sure, have, have had this experience before. So I knew exactly what was happening.

Riese: Right, yeah. That’s exactly, totally.

Analyssa: We actually don’t need to be speaking the same language. I know exactly what you’re saying to that man, and more power to you.

Drew: We’re speaking the same language, and it is lesbian.

Analyssa: And it’s being asked if you can hang out with a guy while you’re on a date.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: No.

Riese: Yeah. It happens so much. Still.

Analyssa: So frequently.

Drew: So much.

Riese: It’s so weird.

Analyssa: Dani… I never use this word, but the only word I can use to describe Dani is “shook” after this moment. She’s like, “Uh.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Yeah. Well, she says — she brings a Bette, because I think she’s starting to feel guilty. So, she’s like, “It’s so nice that you and Bette are together.” And Gigi’s like, “Yeah, it’s not going to work out.” But it’s just like, “Oh!” Gigi’s like, “Forget it. I want to know more about you.” And I’m just like, Gigi’s so bold.

Riese: I know. The boundaries on this woman. She’s like, “You’ve wronged me once. Shame on you, because I’m gone.”

Analyssa: “I’ve moved on.”

Drew: I want her so badly. I wish she was a real person.

Analyssa: I do want her, but I also want to be her. Classic.

Drew: Yes, same.

Analyssa: The way that she’s just so comfortable in this scene. She’s giving food to Dani off her plate, and she’s taking some of Dani’s food, and she’s just like fucking chilling. And I am recently back on the dating scene, and I’m realizing that I’m actually… I thought of myself as a very smooth and chill person, like, gets a flirt in. Absolutely not. Post-pandemic, none of that. And so, I’m trying to channel more Gigi, and leaning in and looking at someone and being like, “I just want to hear more about you.” Like, ooh! The power of that line.

Drew: Yeah. Something that I’ve realized that I do that has really started to work for me, because I am a very anxious person, is that I go into a date assuming it’s going to be awkward. Or I go into a dinner with a new hot person, who I want it to eventually be a date, like it’s going to be awkward. And, so when there’s like an awkward silence or when there’s like a moment of whatever, I just feel very comfortable because I’m not trying to prevent it from being awkward. And then, usually, the other person gets a little bit — because it will be quiet, and I’ll just look at them and smile. And then, they’ll get a little bit like… They’ll find me to be confident, even though secretly in my head, I’m deeply anxious. Anyways, if you want more dating advice like this, you’ll have to listen to my other podcast, Wait, Is This a Date? produced by Autostraddle.com, the website, as well. But yeah. So, anyways, Gigi and Dani, incredible. Also incredible, Tess and Shane. But not incredible, what just happened because this random old guy, I was so confused.

Riese: Why? Why was he allowed in?

Drew: It’s like wait, men are allowed? Yeah, I was like, “Wait. Straight men are allowed at this high-stakes poker? No.”

Riese: Yeah, you sent those two lesbians to White Castle, but you’re going to let this random man in?

Drew: Yeah. It’s terrible.

Riese: Come on!

Drew: Yeah. We don’t know what happened because Shane asks if Tess is okay, and she lies and says yes. She’s clearly lying.

Riese: Yes. I thought he was a cop.

Analyssa: I kind of thought maybe Tess was doing something kind of shady for a sec. I was like, “Oh, maybe there’s like they have some deal where Tess gets a cut.” I was doing all kinds of… The real thing that happens, which we’ll talk about later, it sucks way more than that. But whatever.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of men on The L Word, Alice is out to dinner with Tom, and they’re kind of having a blast. You know what? Is the show going to finally let Alice be bi in a way that isn’t weird? Because that’d be great. I really… I’m fully on board.

Riese: I love him.

Drew: I’m really excited. And then it was like, “Oh, no. Nat and Marissa are there.” And at first, I was like, “Okay. You need to coordinate. Like there… And also, are there three restaurants in LA? Why does this keep happening?” I was so confused.

Riese: And then, you were like, “Oh! She did it on purpose.”

Drew: Yeah, we find that out in a little bit. But before we find that out, they’re like… Tom talks about struggling to separate sex and emotion. And they’re just talking about polyamory in the way that Tom would. And then, Alice sees that Nat and Marissa are holding hands, and she starts to have a panic attack, and everything’s in slow motion, and the sound drops out. And it’s just like, Jesus Christ, it’s polyamory, and not Saving Private Ryan, you know? It’s really intense.

Riese: But it’s so hard to see the person you love with someone else in that context, I think, if you’re not poly.

Drew: Yeah. I guess I don’t get it. I don’t really experience jealousy.

Riese: I mean, like when Tina saw Bette and a carpenter hold hands in the art museum. It’s like someone’s stabbing you in the heart, even though it’s allowed. So, it’s different because it’s not cheating. So, it’s not like she’s betraying you. She’s doing something you said she could do. But I think it’s hard, which is why I would never do what Alice did. I would not go to the restaurant.

Analyssa: That’s the thing. It’s like… But then, the unspoken—

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Even if Nat has never laid down boundaries, I do think the unspoken agreement is, “You won’t sit next to me on my date.” Like that just feels like, “Yeah, unless we’ve explicitly said to do that, you could just avoid that and save yourself the drama.” But Alice doesn’t know how to save herself from the drama, ever.

Drew: No.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: No. Very Alice. All of this feels very Alice. I would have loved to see Nat and Marissa on a date, though. I’d love to know if Marissa’s trans. I’m just like, okay. So, we can only have a trans actress if she looks like a high femme cis woman and barely speaks? Like cool cool cool.

Riese: And this is her second episode, and she’s only supposed to be in three episodes.

Drew: That’s not a great sign.

Riese: I was wanting to say it would be interesting for Nat even to mention that to Alice, but I remembered everything and was like, no, it’s probably better that she didn’t.

Drew: I mean, I would love to… I just… Anyways. It’s fine. Also, I want to clarify that if someone looks like… When I say looks like a cis woman, I mean looks like a cis woman to a cis audience that’s watching. And there’s no value judgment placed on that. It’s just that, in media, it is prioritized that a lot of the trans performers that get cast in things, generally are people who look very, all of our language is limited. And so, it’s like I was going to say binary. I was going to say like, looks cis. I don’t really…

Riese: Pass?

Drew: I don’t know. Yeah. But I don’t even really like to just use that. I sort of hate that that’s the way that the discussion is framed, but…

Analyssa: I mean, Marissa looks like a runway model is the thing, like regardless of like any…

Drew: I’ll put it this way. Marissa does not look like me, or like most of the trans women who I see in queer community. I mean, I don’t know what Marissa’s sexuality is, as last time I checked, Jamie identifies as straight. And like, I do think oftentimes an aesthetic goes along with that, and it just would be really fun to see some trans dykes. Anyways, speaking of trans dykes, Shane is talking about making money, and then we get the backstory, or we find out what happened with Tess and that guy.

Analyssa: Tess went to a back room to do some poker game business, and the guy followed her and groped her. She says, basically she sort of just waited for him to tire of it. We don’t really know exactly what happened, and thank goodness for that, but Shane is very mad instantly and ready to rip this guy’s head off.

Riese: Then Tess said she took money.

Analyssa: Okay. Remember, the last episode when I was like, Tess should watch Molly’s Game? Tessa has watched Molly’s Game, it turns out, because what Tess does to get back at him is take a rake, which is like a percentage of the pot from, I actually have only seen Molly’s Game twice, but I actually don’t really know that I’m doing this correctly, but basically it’s like taking a percentage of the pot from players’ winnings. She’s stolen $4,000 from the game, which makes the game illegal. Like if you are a person who is putting on the game and you take money back, that makes the game illegal, for sure. Like gambling rules are different I think state by state, but a rake is pretty much always bad. Anyway, she said she took $4,000 from him, 2,000 for Tess and 2,000 for Shane, and she’s like, “Please don’t be mad at me. Please don’t fire me. It was a one-time thing. I won’t do it again.” Shane says that she wishes Tess had ripped him off for more. Anyway, I want these two to kiss a little bit.

Drew: I do too, and I’m also wondering if this is going to become a thing. Like are they going to start taking rakes? Are Shane and Tess going to go to jail?

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Riese: Is it going to be like Hustlers? Or is it going to be like Monster?

Analyssa: Yeah, I don’t think it’s going to be like… My guess is they don’t start taking rakes from every game, but that this guy becomes a problem in the way that Felicity’s husband became a problem last season.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Push him down the stairs.

Analyssa: That’s my guess. Honestly, a small murder plot on The L Word? Sure. Why not?

Riese: They did so good with it last time.

Drew: Yeah. Really foolproof.

Analyssa: Isn’t this one supposed to be about righting some of the wrongs of the first series?

Riese: I’m still so confused about whether or not this game is legal, because she says that taking a rake is illegal. That implies the rest of it is illegal. Also literally closing down your bar for a private event that is actually a poker game feels like pretty risky business if you’re doing something illegal? And would Bette participate in the illegal poker game? I really don’t think she would.

Analyssa: I think it must not be illegal until the rake happens.

Riese: Like they get a license for it or something?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: I think it’s underground only so that they can keep it exclusive. I don’t think it’s underground because it’s going to be like… I think it’s like, we don’t want those two lesbians who were in the alley and now had to go to White Castle to be able to show up at the poker game, you know?

Riese: Yeah. Home poker games are legal in California as long as the host of the game doesn’t take a rake.

Analyssa: There it is.

Drew: There you go, and we love Google.

Analyssa: Thank goodness for Google. Okay. Back at Nat and Alice’s. Alice has finished her dinner with Tom. She’s gone home to Nat. There’s a funny aside about how the babysitter wears Nat’s clothes, and they should talk about that, which I thought was fun. Basically Alice is like, “I can’t do this.” She doesn’t, once again, communicate a ton, which made me actually pretty mad at her. I felt like there was more conversation to be had, even if you stand really firmly and like, “I can not do this,” you know? But Nat is like, “I’ll stop seeing other people. It’s you and me. Like, whatever you feel comfortable with.” Alice is just like, “No, I can’t do it.”

Drew: Alice is right here.

Riese: Yeah. She is right, being like, “No, I don’t want to be with you if you have to suppress.”

Analyssa: I definitely think that she’s right.

Drew: No, no, no, no. You’re right that Alice should communicate about it. I mean, here’s the thing, Alice has been in the right through a lot of this, because I think the show is on Alice’s side, but also I think Alice doesn’t communicate it well, and doesn’t handle any of these things well, and that’s part of the problem, yes. Cut to one of our famous end of Gen Q episode montage.

Analyssa: I love a montage at the end of an episode. Is this the first one of the season? We have the one where Dani was running and she was seeing…

Riese: Oh, “Driver’s License.”

Analyssa: “Driver’s License.”

Drew: Yeah. The “Driver’s License” where we didn’t get the bridge. I re-watched that episode, and I was like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe it didn’t.” What they really should’ve done is when it cuts to the credits, the bridge of “Driver’s License” should have started.

Riese: Every time I hear it now… and it says, “I bet you’re with that blonde girl,” I’m going to think about Drew being like, “Finley is the blonde girl.”

Analyssa: Speaking of Finley in the montage, Sophie gets home and she puts her keys down and they land on a table that Finley has provided somehow. I thought that was so sweet.

Drew: Angie’s looking at photos, Tess and Shane count money, and then we go back to Sophie and Finley and Sophie hugs Finley.

Riese: She kind of leans on her, and Finley is like, “Oh my God.” Honestly, I think that Sophie should go be a bad-ass producer and Finley should just mind the home.

Drew: Yes, absolutely.

Riese: Maybe do some freelance moving. Maybe she’s a mover.

Analyssa: I was just about to say she would be great as like a pair of hands in a moving company.

Riese: Yeah, she can build furniture. Remember she said…

Analyssa: “Uh-huh (affirmative)”

Drew: Ooh, like Magic Mike.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I haven’t seen it.

Drew: That’s my reference. You haven’t seen…? Wait, have you seen Magic Mike XXL?

Riese: There are different movies?

Analyssa: There’s two.

Drew: Yeah. There’s Magic Mike, which you don’t have to watch, and then there’s Magic Mike XXL, which is one of the greatest movies of all time.

Analyssa: Drew loves Magic Mike XXL.

Drew: Okay. Everyone who has not watched Magic Mike XXL, you have to watch Magic Mike XXL. It is an incredible movie. It is the closest—

Riese: I don’t know if I can watch the sequel without watching the original.

Drew: If you’re like me and can’t, then watch the original, the original is fine. It’s fine. It’s not a great movie, but you’ll get through it. It’s not bad. Then the sequel is, you don’t have to see the original, they’re very disconnected, but the sequel is incredible, and it’s the closest, I think, that like we’ve had in the last 10 years, like an old Hollywood musical, not in like a La La Land, like trying to copy the style, but in our… Like contemporary the same energy of just like… it’s just a positive masculinity. It’s great. It’s so good. You need to watch Magic Mike XXL. We can go back to The L Word, where Gigi is ignoring Bette’s call post-montage, which is a bad choice.

Analyssa: Bette has been Googling Pascal, and finds out also that she has a studio in Topanga, and then calls Gigi, and then Gigi ignores the call, because she’s having such a fun time with Dani.

Riese: Yeah. Probably the first person to ever silence a call from Bette Porter, besides Helena Peabody.

Analyssa: I bet Bette did not love that. Then they’re hitting it off, and Dani’s like, “I had the best time tonight. This is so great.” Then they pull up to her home and there are sirens outside.

Drew: So he’s getting arrested, not Dani?

Analyssa: Yeah, for sure.

Drew: That’s the episode!

Riese: That’s the episode!

Analyssa: That’s it! What did we think?

Drew: I remember you telling me that this was your favorite episode so far, but I unfortunately have to say that this was one of those L Word episodes where like, it was like a real, some L Word episodes I’m like, “This is a great episode.” Some L Word episodes I’m like, “This was not a very good episode.” Then there some where I’m like, “Well, half the storylines I really liked.” I really liked all the Gigi-Dani stuff. I like where some of the other storylines are going, but I was pretty exhausted by this episode, to be honest. I was a little disappointed and a little bit frustrated as shown by this podcast you’ve just listened to, but I’m not giving up hope yet. If at the end of the day, all I get out of L Word: Generation Q, season two is a lot of like top for top flirting and sex. I’ve spent my time doing worse things. I watched six seasons of Glee.

Analyssa: Recently.

Drew: Yeah, like very recently. I’m just fine. I’m happy to be here.

Riese: Well, there was no sex scenes, Drew.

Analyssa: There were no sex scenes.

Drew: I know. Honestly like when someone as hot as Gigi and someone as hot as Dani talk, it’s basically sex.

Analyssa: A thing that I’m realizing about me is that I will have my quibbles with an episode or a movie or a book or whatever, and then if I finish it in a good mood, I’m like, “Loved it. Oh my gosh. Amazing.” If it ends in a way that I think is fun, I’m like, “Oh, incredible piece of media.” Then over the course of a couple of days, I’m like, “Wait a second. Actually, this didn’t really make that much sense.” Or when I’m talking with friends about it, that book Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, I recommended it to three friends and they all read it and were like, “Yeah, it’s good, but what about this weird thing?” I was like, “No, yeah. You’re so right. I agree.” I do still think that 202 is my favorite actually. I think that just like, sort of, Drew, what you were saying, there were some pretty rough, rocky lows in the episode, and then there were some really fun gleeful things. That is sort of like, I have to remember that I get taken by the gleeful parts, in many things, not just in The L Word. I’m like, “Oh, that was great. Good for you guys.”

Drew: Good. That’s a great way to be. That’s a great way to be. Honestly, this is part of the downside of being a critic or hosting a recap podcast is like, if I was watching this with a big group of friends and we were just like hanging out and watching the episode, the stuff that bothered me, I might like be like whatever, but I would also walk away with… The thing is, is that the things that bother me, I’m writing down notes to be like, “Well, this is what I’m going to talk about on the podcast.” It does impact my experience in a way for sure.

Analyssa: Because I’m my own best friend, watching anything for myself feels like watching with a big group of friends, and so I just keep it pushing.

Drew: I like that. It’s very beautiful.

Analyssa: All I have at the end of the day is me and my silly brain.

Drew: That’s beautiful. Riese, what did you think?

Riese: First I have a quick question, which is like, do you think that you could just be a person? Because I was once a person who barely even knew her own sexuality and I was watching The L Word, and I was like, “There’s absolutely no way I can consume another season of this show without somehow writing about my feelings about it in a public forum.” Like I couldn’t just sit there and have feelings about it and keep them to myself. I needed a platform to express them. Like, do you think that you could just sit back and watch the show and not share those feelings? Because I’d be like, for me, like considering just being a layman viewer is probably not even possible.

Drew: That’s a really good point. I mean, what I think I could do is I could watch it and then be like, “I have these takeaways, I’m going to revisit it and think about them for an essay.” But yeah, you’re probably right. I probably would always be responding to The L Word in some capacity, that is where I’m being paid. That’s not the important part, but where — I guess when I watched Glee, I tweeted about it and I wasn’t paid for that. That was just the kindness of my own heart.

Riese: Yeah, that was… I mean that was fucking joy, Drew.

Drew: Yeah, thanks so much. But yeah, you know, I don’t know. I like thinking about things critically. I do enjoy it. I just get frustrated and I get frustrated because I just see the potential, and I know — There’s never been more trans talent, who are professionally working in this industry, and have stories to tell and have just the ability to fulfill those stories in a way that’s successful, and it’s just always a little bit of a bummer to me when we’re stuck sort of making compromises in rooms full of cis people, as opposed to getting to like show the whole scope of who we are. It just is like, it’s just a bummer. I mean, I think things have gotten so much better in the last five years and I think they’ll get better in the next five years, and so I feel optimistic about it, but I’m not the most patient person. I would love for The L Word to be where I wish it was, but it’s not, and that’s why we talk about it. Also we talk about it because it’s fun and hot for the other characters, for the cis characters and for the trans characters that aren’t trans.

Riese: Yeah. I think it was fine.

Drew: That’s your take on this episode? That it was fine?

Riese: Yeah. I think it was mostly good. It’s really nice that everyone is getting mixed up with everyone else.

Drew: Yes. I really like that.

Analyssa: That is fun.

Riese: I think the only things I felt disappointed about so far is I did feel disappointed that Finley and Sophie haven’t had sex yet. I also, I did kind of think that they were going to actually have Marissa be an actively trans character. After this, I’m not sure if she is going to be one.

Analyssa: I mean, the bummer is that she doesn’t even seem to be actively a character. She’s just like… she’s an extra, which is a bummer. I think that that actually is one of the things that I felt most critical about in this episode is how much actual stuff is happening that we don’t get to watch? The conversation between Angie and Kayla, the conversation between Nat and Marissa, I’m sure there’s another one that I’m forgetting because things always go in threes. But like, I don’t know, I was just like, we’re just watching people react to something, but I think the more interesting story is in the thing that they’re reacting to.

Drew: Right. Totally.

Riese: Much like the original “Luck Be a Lady,” though, I think that what’s fun about this episode is that everyone is either single or in turmoil in their relationships, and so there’s a lot of friendship stuff and there’s a lot of fun drama and people dating each other within this group of people that we like, thank God, you know?

Drew: Yes.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Give us a call, leave us a message, or just give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back: Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And definitely let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Analyssa: My L Word is “listening.” I want to listen to more characters and I want more characters to listen to each other.

Drew: It’s a great word. My L Word is “labor,” because of the emotional labor that it takes to be a trans person in media.

Riese: Mine is Lady and the Tramp.

Analyssa: Nice.

Drew: Incredible.

Riese: A film about love and pasta.

Analyssa: And a T4T dog relationship.

Drew: Yes. That is now canon, as I’ve said. People don’t like it when I say things are canon when they’re not a canon, but it’s canon.

Analyssa: Anything can be canon if you try hard enough and believe in yourself. That’s what canon means. Just willed into being.

Riese: That’s the message.

Analyssa: Okay. Well, bye.

Drew: Well, I feel like I really brought us down, but you know, sometimes—

Riese: But did you? Or did the show?

Analyssa: Were you silent or silenced?

Drew: Great point.

Analyssa: Okay. Well, I love you guys.

Drew: I love you guys, too.

Riese: Love you guys.

Analyssa: Bye!

Riese: Bye!

“To L and Back” Generation Q Podcast Episode 202: Lean On Me

Well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequences of our Gen Q friends’ actions! We’re back for another episode full of talking, laughing, loving, breathing, and heavy on the fighting. In fact, Riese thinks this might be the episode with the most lesbian squabbles(TM) in all of L Word history!

Join us in this week’s episode of To L And Back as everyone deals with the fall out from the wedding, Shane schemes a new way to become rich, again, and Alice finally meets her editor. Meanwhile we discuss whether the people who hurt us deserve to be happy again! And also the top shortage. We’re bringing that discussion back around. 

SHOW NOTES

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew!

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa!

Riese: And I am Riese! And this is—

Riese, Drew, and Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition!

Riese: Edition.

Analyssa: Edition.

Drew: I love the addition of the edition.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: Yeah. Thank you so much. Wow. What a day.

Drew: Here we are.

Analyssa: Riese has had a morning.

Riese: I’ve had a morning. I spilled my entire water bottle. I think I broke my closet door.

Analyssa: Did you spill puzzle pieces?

Riese: I did… Oh yeah. I did spill a puzzle everywhere. If I’m doing a puzzle, you already know I’m not doing well.

Drew: Oh, no. I do know this about you.

Analyssa: We’re persevering.

Riese: We’re persevering.

Analyssa: It’s fine.

Riese: Because I think that’s what’s important, is that you stick with it.

Analyssa: Yes. So true.

Drew: Yeah. I agree. I think it’s a lesson that all of our friends in fictional Los Angeles will also have to learn.

Riese: Totally. Yeah. This is going to be an interesting episode for the people.

Drew: This episode, 202, is called “Lean On Me.” It is directed by show creator, Marja-Lewis Ryan, and it is written by Jonell Lennon, who previously was a writer on Pretty Little Liars, a show that I have not watched, but I’m pretty sure Riese has.

Riese: Oh wow. I have. I have viewed the program, most of the program. Yes. It’s a very zany, it’s a zany little show. More pressing to me personally, is she related to John Lennon?

Drew: I didn’t do that research, but I can do that research before our next episode and return. Or if any readers want to let us know. It’s spelled J-O-N-E-L-L. It’s not J-O-H-N, so it’s not like you just had John and then added an L. It could be. This is how Hollywood works. A lot of people are — and that’s just part of it, and it is what it is. I don’t actually, I don’t want to spread lies about this writer who made a name for herself on Pretty Little Liars.

Riese: Is her last name the same as John Lennon’s or as the dictator, Lenin?

Drew: Wow. Pretty bold, too.

Riese: I actually don’t know who Lenin is, but it’s on my mind because this morning I tried Lennon as a word in the New York Times spelling bee game and it said it wasn’t a word.

Drew: It is spelled like John Lennon, not like the Russian leader.

Riese: The Russian leader?

Drew: I’m not trying to… Yeah.

Riese: So Linen’s a good guy?

Drew: Ah. I’d rather not take a strong stance on Lenin right now.

Analyssa: We put Drew on the spot.

Drew: But he’s not Stalin.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Stalin. That’s one of the bad ones, right?

Drew: Okay. I would say, let’s do some Russian history later. Actually what if we just started talking about this episode of The L Word?

Analyssa: Yeah. Let’s go into it.

Riese: Let’s do it.

Drew: Great.

Drew: Okay. Guess what we start with? Sophie and Dani are fighting.

Analyssa: They’re fighting.

Riese: This is a multi-disciplinary wedding venue. They’ve got a marital bed to fight in. It seems like things are not going well.

Analyssa: Dani is so mad.

Riese: Right. Fair.

Drew: Fair.

Analyssa: But she’s leading with mad, is the thing.

Riese: I think I would also… I would probably punch a wall. I’ve never punched a wall before, but I feel like if at my wedding—

Analyssa: I think my reaction to this would be to run. I guess that’s why it was so surprising to me. She is really, 10 toes on the ground, ready to fight with Sophie. I personally would be like, “Goodbye, forever” and I would just sprint away.

Riese: Yeah. I would start a new life.

Analyssa: I can’t actually run to be clear.

Drew: Yeah. I used to punch walls a lot when I was in high school, but I sort of grew out of that phase. My walls in my childhood bedroom, a little bit of a mess. But, I don’t think that’d be my reaction now. I think I also would probably not run away, but I definitely would be like, “I’m going to want to take a minute,” because I wouldn’t want people to see me have feelings. I would be like, “Cool, cool, cool. I don’t care about you. Go fuck yourself. I’m going to go,” and I’d grab my best friend. Then my best friend, Micah, would be like, “Yeah, I already knew this whole time.” But I would be like, “Okay, cool, so everyone is dead to me and I am going to move.”

Riese: I would run away, change my name, start a new life, get a new face. Face transplant. Just everything, redo it all. But she’s yelling. She’s asking Sophie, I think, some important questions.

Drew: Yeah. I think so. It’s just chaos everywhere. Alice tells Shane that—

Alice: Oh, she looks like a little kitten on a highway.

Riese: That was cute because it was true.

Analyssa: Alice looked really good when she stood up to rescue Finley. I was like, hello.

Riese: Alice was being very “elder dyke” in this, which I appreciated. Then fucking — was it Bette or Shane who was like, “That is the most selfish thing.”

Analyssa: It was Bette!

Bette: I think that was the most selfish thing I’ve ever seen.

Drew: Bette is on one in this episode. We’re going to get into that.

Riese: Yeah. Bette, I have some questions but—

Analyssa: Bette saying, “This is the most selfish thing I’ve ever seen in my life” is like — that you’ve ever seen Sophie do? Maybe. But that you’ve ever — you, Bette Porter, have ever seen? I don’t buy it.

Riese: Maybe, I don’t know, what about when Shane just didn’t fucking show up for her own wedding?

Analyssa: What about when Bette cheated on Tina a hundred times?

Riese: Oh. Yeah. We’ll get there. We’ll get to that.

Drew: Well, we’re going to get to that. Okay. Everything’s chaos and it’s so silly. I was obsessed with all of this. This made it all worth… The absurdity of the whole situation, last episode, that bothered me, made it all worth it for this chaos. Dani tells Sophie that she never wants to see her again, and that she’s fucking disgusting. It’s not that that’s unfair, but I do wonder if Dani would feel the same if she had seen the, “What are you doing, buddy? What are you doing?” moment. I think maybe she would have understood.

Analyssa: Yeah. She would have been like, “That was really sweet.”

Drew: Yeah. She maybe would have been like, “Okay, yeah, this was wrong but also I do get. It was really hot and sweet.” Sometimes that’s how life is. Anyways, Dani punches Finley in the fucking face.

Riese: Yeah. That was funny.

Analyssa: That was pretty funny. I do think Finley should have seen that coming.

Riese: Oh yeah. She deserved it.

Analyssa: I think, in my head, Finley saw that coming and was like, “I deserve this. I’m just going to let her do it.”

Riese: I’m just going to take it.

Analyssa: Because she could’ve ducked.

Riese: So, everyone’s basically mad at everyone, which is a great way to start this episode, which has more arguments in it than any other episode I’ve ever recapped of The L Word, or this has more fights than any of them.

Analyssa: This is a big “the girls are fighting” episode.

Riese: Yeah. It is. Everyone’s—

Drew: That’s a fun fact.

Analyssa: Yeah. The only other thing I have about this wedding chaos is that I love Tess just being like, “What the fuck?” Like, I’m her in any chaotic situation, just watching and being vaguely judgemental, but not engaging. She’s like, “This is not for me.”

Riese: Her facial expressions are golden. When she’s like, “Is she drunk?” Her eyes were… Oh, it’s so cute. Anyway, big drama, big love, big punch in the face. That’s what I always say about a wedding.

Drew: It’s everything you want. Okay. Then we move on to Sophie with her family and I think we realized that actually we could see Sophie’s grandma in the last episode, but not clearly enough that I caught it. This was my moment at least, of being like, “Oh my God, thank God. Sophie’s grandma’s okay.”

Analyssa: Me too, yeah. I was thrilled and I just love this family so much. They all really care about each other and they’re just trying their best. I love the parent/grandma thing of being like, “You didn’t do that great. But what do you need from us?” It’s all very supportive, but not indulging.

Drew: No, absolutely.

Riese: It was realistic advice. They weren’t going to sugar coat it, but they were also going to help out with whatever she needed.

Analyssa: She’s really sad.

Riese: Yeah. Also, Dani was like, “Don’t talk to me ever again.” And Sophie’s like, “She’s not answering my phone calls.” Yeah, babe. Yeah. She’s not going to be, she’s not picking up the phone. She just said, “Never speak to me again,” which obviously was dramatics in the moment.

Drew: That’s something that I don’t like about — I was going to say fictional characters, but it’s actually very realistic for fictional characters, because I don’t like it in real people either. It’s if someone says… If you have wronged someone, it is not their responsibility to comfort you or to be on their terms. You need to say, “I’m so sorry. I want to talk to you. I want to work this out. Call me when you’re ready to do so. I’m going to check back in.” Either leave it at that, would be my preference. But if you need to provide a “I’ll check back in, in a week” or whatever it is, fine. But the insistent “I need to talk to you, we need to talk about this,” when you are the one who did something wrong, it bothers me so much.

Riese: Yeah. It’s really selfish. Also, we find out that Sophie… Because her mom’s like, “Do you love Finley?” and she doesn’t answer that. She just says, “I love Dani.”

Drew: Yeah. Maribel is definitely the one who’s harshest on her. Because she’s like,

Maribel: Just like Dad.
Sophie: What?!

Drew: Depending on what your relationship is with various family members, I think that is maybe the meanest thing you can say to a sibling if that is the dynamic, is something along those lines. It’s not maybe unfair, but it is pretty harsh.

Analyssa: It was a really low blow.

Riese: But I think it’s interesting, this scenario, because we know that Sophie does have feelings for Finley. But I feel like, and I know I’m projecting because I actually had an incredibly similar experience, oddly. But it’s this panic, she, on the one hand, is this person who’s very adrift in life, unemployed, doesn’t have a place to live, doesn’t have her shit together at all and who she feels this incredible attraction to. On the other hand, is this person who she has a life with, who’s friends with her friends and they have this relationship. Even though she wasn’t happy in that relationship at all, if she doesn’t get Dani back, then she has to accept that she fucked up. Like she’s an asshole. It’s not just about making the relationship work, it’s about who is she? Who is she as a person? Is she somebody who fucked up this wonderful relationship to go to a rank little love nest with a 26-year-old who barely has her foot in the door or whatever, to quote Cherie Jaffe? Or is she a reliable… Which is a terrible classist thing. But, who is she? I think she’s fighting, not just for the relationship, but maybe even more so for her own sense of self.

Drew: Yeah. Well…

Riese: What do you think?

Drew: Yeah, that all makes total sense to me. It’s interesting, watching Sophie’s reaction to all of this and being surprised, because I really thought that she felt trapped, so she would’ve wanted to… Especially, we’ll see this throughout the episode, she’s really trying to get Dani back and I’m like, really? But I think that makes a lot of sense, that it’s not about getting Dani back. It’s about who she is. That makes sense.

Riese: Yeah. Also, if Dani leaves then she’s in this relationship with somebody who publicly humiliated her ex. It’s like this is one kind of life and this is another kind of life. That is really scary. I feel like she’s just panicking and maybe that’s because I’m a Sinley shipper. But I do feel like she’s just panicking. Also, she’s been with Dani for so long. I think there is a moment whenever you’re ending a long-term relationship with somebody, where there’s that day or that hour or that week or that month where you all of a sudden, when you actually have to think about losing them, then you immediately panic. It’s just a psychological response regardless of whether or not your relationship was even working.

Drew: Totally. Well, going to another relationship that is not working, Alice is with Nat and Alice says that she doesn’t think Finley has even seen The Graduate.

Analyssa: I loved that!

Drew: Then her and Nat are like, “Well, we haven’t either, but we get the reference.” But I don’t believe that. Why wouldn’t Nat and Alice have seen The Graduate? Who wasn’t seen… I get that Finley maybe hasn’t seen The Graduate, but who hasn’t seen The Graduate?

Riese: Finley is definitely one of those people who you mention a movie that literally everybody in the world has seen, and she’s like, “What?” But she’s seen Jurassic Park 25 times.

Drew: Yeah. I believe that. I believe that, but I don’t believe that Alice, especially just knowing everything about Alice, that Alice wouldn’t have seen The Graduate. But also, she hasn’t seen SVU, so she doesn’t know anything.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I don’t understand what they’re doing with Alice having never watched anything. Anyway, whatever.

Drew: That’s not important.

Riese: This is a problem for Drew because people’s media speaks a lot about who they are as a person. You’re continually frustrated when you’re like, this is not actually an accurate depiction of the type of media that she would have been involved in.

Drew: Yeah. I want to know everyone’s sun sign and I want to know everyone’s favorite movie and that would really tell me a lot. Anyways, Nat brings up open relationships and Alice is not into it. It’s surprising that Nat is the exciting one, not to associate polyamory with excitement and monogamy with not excitement, but I think I just did that. I think it’s fair when we’re watching a television program, the potential for excitement is probably more if a character who’s in a relationship is also having other experiences versus just being in a relationship. If anyone who’s monogamous out there is offended by that, I’m sorry, but I think we can get on board with this.

Riese: I’m monogamous and I’m not offended.

Drew: Great. Thank you Riese, for speaking for the monogamous community.

Riese: But Alice literally says that bad people are poly.

Nat: Monogamy is not for everyone.
Alice: Well it’s for most people, except the bad ones.

Analyssa: That’s the thing that I was like, “Oh,” is Alice is vehemently like, “That is not okay.”

Riese: Yeah, like that’s bad.

Analyssa: She’s not willing to have this conversation at all, which is very stressful and leads to Nat fully crying in the bathroom. Nat is going through something.

Drew: Yeah. Do you think she’s crying about the future of her relationship, or do you think she’s crying because that trans woman was just so hot that she’s like, “What if I never get to have sex with Marissa?”

Analyssa: Probably that one.

Riese: Yeah, probably that one. But God, Alice did a lot of things this episode that I was like, oh my God. Also, I don’t buy that. She’s been alive in the Los Angeles community of queer people for at least two decades and she thinks that non-monogamy is inherently bad and only bad people do it? That doesn’t even make sense.

Drew: No.

Riese: She wrote the chart.

Drew: Right.

Riese: What?

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know what’s happening with Alice. Alice has always been a favorite of mine and wherever they’re taking her character is honestly probably healthy for me, because Alice has never been the biggest ally to my community. Maybe if they also make her boring, so I don’t like her, it would be healthier for me, personally. Maybe it’s a gift. Thanks Marja.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re doing it for you. At, wherever Dani is held up, which we have to assume is her dad’s house, right? Sophie brought something in a dish. Are they brownies? Is it a casserole?

Riese: It’s got to be kugel. It’s got to be a kugel.

Analyssa: I don’t know what it is. But Sophie brought that over.

Riese: Maybe it’s 10 pear polenta tarts. She’s like, “Look, I just spent $50 million on you. Take me back and pay off my debt.”

Drew: It’s the traditional thing you do after you cheat.

Riese: Yeah. Spongecake.

Analyssa: And Dani is responding dramatically. She’s throwing the casserole dish in the trash. She’s flushing her ring down the toilet and sending photos of it to Sophie.

Riese: Literally, flushing money down the toilet. I was—

Analyssa: Appalled?

Riese: Pained, deeply pained.

Drew: Okay. But that’s the thing a rich person can do. That’s what you get… When you have an evil father, you get the privilege of being able to flush the wedding ring down the toilet. Fuck you. It’s a powerful thing. Engagement ring? Wedding ring?

Analyssa: We knew that Dani’s dad was rich, but I, I don’t know about you two, I didn’t know that he has a man in a suit who opens the door at his home, rich.

Riese: Right. He lives in a manor.

Analyssa: That was shocking to me.

Riese: Yeah. I also expected he would be living in a slick modernist type of LA, Hollywood Hills home. This was like a fifties movie star used to live in this ensemble.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know anyone who is that level of rich. How rich do you have to be to be that level of rich?

Analyssa: Pretty rich.

Riese: Yeah. All we know about his business is that some of it involved opioids. It is my understanding that they made a great deal of money, that industry. So, maybe it’s the Sackler mansion that they let him live in. But also, obviously Dani… If I were Dani, I would probably be doing, I don’t know what I’d be doing. I guess being really upset. I would have blocked Sophie, that’s for sure.

Analyssa: That is the thing. I would instantly just not be getting Sophie’s calls anymore. If that’s the choice I’m making, then we have the technology for that. You don’t have to hear from her actually. But you know who Dani does have to hear from? Is Bette Porter, who is here to save the day.

Riese: With tartine.

Analyssa: Hilarious that she brought tartine. Of course, she would.

Riese: This was such a nice, generous moment from Bette. Dani was a little bit hostile, but I think Bette… That’s the same way Bette is, so she probably was like, “Okay.”

Drew: Totally. It was a really good first act of a fanfic too. It didn’t go in that direction, but I definitely was watching it like, “I know you’re sad, but sometimes a good way to deal with your sadness, let me tell you.”

Riese: Boning.

Analyssa: Yeah. Be flirtier instead of mean.

Drew: I think actually if Bette Porter came to my house right after I had found out that my fiance had cheated on me, I think the only thing I would… Because here’s the thing about it: there’s never a moment where you could make a move on Bette Porter and have lower stakes. Because if you do it and she’s like, “Whoa,” you could be like, “I just was cheated on. I’m crazy right now.” It becomes totally normal. I think it’s actually the prime time to go for your ex-boss, who is the most… I was going to say the most powerful lesbian in Los Angeles. When I say that, I don’t mean that like… I’m sure there are people who are richer, have more political influence. But I think by most powerful, just spiritually. Bette Porter.

Riese: Yeah, definitely. Her soul looms large in LA.

Analyssa: Anyway, as I was mad about last episode, Shane did fuck up Tess’s life by ruining this poker game that she was bartending. Confusing as it may be that she was bartending this poker game, it was a good paycheck, and Shane ruined it.

Drew: We were talking about this last episode of, what was the intention with Eddie and whatever, how are we supposed to feel about Eddie? The idea that Eddie would blackball Tess from every game in town… Tess didn’t do anything wrong. It just adds into the column of Eddie’s in the wrong in the situation, which I don’t think should be the takeaway. I know that Lena Waithe is a big guest star, but if you just… I don’t know. It still feels like it’s using this character that was not very well developed, who showed up to just be like, “Hey, there should be spaces in LA lesbian world that are for specifically Black lesbians.” And taking a character who says that, then being like, “And they’re wrong about everything except that.” It just creates a weird dynamic and I don’t know. Anyways.

Riese: Yeah. For a Black… They rarely have Black characters, rarely have masculine characters. To have a Black masculine-of-center character be the one who is like… Because you’re right. It doesn’t make sense. Why in the world would she blackball Tess from every game in town? That’s immature and petty. It’s just a shitty direction, I guess.

Analyssa: Well, luckily for Tess, you can hear how excited I am about this for her. Shane has a new pitch, which is their own underground lesbian poker game. Tess delivers an absolutely incredible barb, which is:

Tess: I don’t really know how to say this.
Shane: Say it.
Tess: You’re not discreet.

Analyssa: Yeah. I thought that was really funny.

Riese: She’s like, “You’re trouble. I don’t trust you.” This is illegal, right? Is it illegal? I can’t figure this out.

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: I think money makes it illegal in LA. Right? The actual money gambling part of it. I actually don’t know. But that’s what I think.

Riese: I guess we would know this if it was actually accurate that lesbians all over the city were playing poker all the time.

Drew: Or, we all know and we’re all just playing it cool so our listeners and the fans don’t catch on.

Riese: Yeah. Is this illegal? I don’t know.

Analyssa: Very allegedly illegal poker games that allegedly happen in Los Angeles.

Riese: Yeah. I could definitely put down 10 bucks.

Drew: Yeah. So back to our primary drama, Finley walks in as Maribel and Micah are dealing with wedding gifts. Well, first of all, it’s nice that we’re happy about Maribel and Micah hanging out. Let’s say that. But Maribel does say that Micah is Jose’s Finley, which I think is unfair and also is fair. Well, it’s fair in the sense that Micah should also remove himself from the situation. I don’t think it’s fair in the sense that I don’t think Micah didn’t interrupt a wedding. Micah wasn’t friends with Jose’s husband. In fact, Micah didn’t even know when they first started. So there’s a lot of reasons why it’s actually not the same, but…

Riese: And also Micah found out that Jose was married while they were both looking at the mermaid painting, which I feel was … it’s sort of like having a concussion. When you are looking at something like that, you’re kind of in this weird zone.

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Riese: Yeah. Can you imagine Micah interrupting a wedding? He would never. He’s so polite.

Analyssa: Sweet boy.

Drew: Finley continues showing up in places in their lives. She’s really not laying low. So she goes into work, and so does Sophie, obviously.

Analyssa: Finley … yeah, Finley is so funny to me because she just arrives back in LA, is like, I’ve been banished to Kansas City for awhile, but you know what seems right, is just going about my day the same way.

Riese: Alice needs her coffee.

Analyssa: Alice needs her coffee. I’m sorry, I did get a really big laugh out of her being like, “What’s the soup of the day?”

Riese: Soup chef.

Analyssa: And the assistant going, the bad assistant going—

Assistant: Oh, it’s just the soup that they have for today. Sometimes it’s made over veggie or clam chowder.

Analyssa: The soup of the day is the soup they have today.

Drew: That is pretty good.

Analyssa: I just thought that was so funny.

Drew: Yeah. As someone who has been a PA many times, it’s amazing how if you are just competent, people will act like you have changed their life. Like I truly have just had people talk about … I mean, I really haven’t left like a PA or assistant job without being offered another job after. Usually they’re for like a similar level and I don’t want to do it so I usually say no, but—

Analyssa: Okay, brag.

Drew: But it’s because it’s not that hard. The industry is just filled with boys like this who do not know how to do anything. So on the one hand, I think it’s pretty silly the whole running gag about Finley’s irreplaceable as a PA. But on the other hand it actually sort of checks out that Alice would be like, “Oh, I found this hot lesbian who knows how to actually do bare minimum tasks correctly.” I actually understand why she’s like, “We need to get her back here to ruin some lives and get me my coffee.”

Analyssa: 100%.

Riese: Yeah. Well also Finley doesn’t have ambitions, like she’s not like, “I’m going to be an assistant and work my way up or like, I want to be a writer.” She’s just like, “I’m going to be a really good assistant,” because this is kind of … she doesn’t really have any ambition beyond that at this point, you know?

Drew: Right. And someone who doesn’t have ambition, again suddenly, is Sophie who, when Alice is comforting her, she’s like, “I want that producer position. I need it.” And you know what? Honestly, I don’t think she should get it because she’s sad, but she was going to get it anyways and she turned it down. And so I think she … I’m happy that Alice is being like, “Yeah, you can have it.”

Riese: And Sophie’s like, “We can totally work together. It’ll be fine. We’ll be totally profesh.”

Analyssa: I’m sure that will go super well.

Drew: To be continued.

Analyssa: I’m just amazed they’re not actively crying. If I were Sophie or Finley I would be crying because everyone … I mean, there’s three people right now are pretty much at the worst point — are at some sort of emotional rock bottom.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I really don’t cry a lot. In fact, I have a whole eye condition that I recently discovered that prevents me from crying a lot, so it’s not just that I’m a Capricorn.

Riese: Oh my God. I’m so jealous. Is it contagious?

Drew: No. No, it’s not. It’s a thing I … yeah, anyways. But I don’t cry a lot, but when I was going through a regular breakup, I constantly had to go into the office bathroom because I was working in an office at the time, and cry. So that they’re cold in there — I mean, maybe they are crying and they’re just not saying it because how much time can we really spend watching Sophie cry in the bathroom? I would have liked to watch that.

Analyssa: A little bit of it.

Riese: I would have been like, this is so authentic. I would have raved about it.

Drew: Yeah. But so across town, Micah is deciding not to be Jose’s Finley. That really stuck. Because when the person who you’re about to be dating and have been friends with for a while, calls you out on your toxic … I’m just making this canon now, just wishful thinking canon, you decide that you are going to have some self-respect and also I guess, respect the institution of marriage. And so, yeah.

Riese: Also Jose is psycho in this scene.

Analyssa: Yeah, and then he’s like … his husband comes out and he’s like, “This is my friend Micah.” It’s like … it’s all bad.

Drew: Yeah. I will say it is one of the bolder things for Micah to do, to show up. Like as the…
Riese: The third.

Drew: What’s a male mistress called?

Riese: Mister.

Drew: Yeah, to show up — yeah, as the mister, to show up at the house and be like, “We’re going to have this fight right here,” it’s a move. I mean, I respect it. Something I didn’t like was that Micah’s mad because he says he didn’t lie about being trans so why would Jose lie about this? And it was a very, very weird false equivalency there.

Riese: I didn’t even catch that.

Drew: Yeah. He’s like, “I was honest with you about who I am. Why aren’t you honest with me about who you are?” And it’s like, I just am sort of confused by that because they were fully dating for long periods of time. And so — not that trans people throughout history haven’t kept their transness secret through long relationships, but it would have been pretty challenging to keep it a … I just am sort of like… the period of disclosure … It just showed a lack of understanding about disclosure and about … one, it’s weird because Micah … considering the sexual acts that they were doing, Micah would have had to disclose, or it would have been disclosed for him. And two, it’s not the same, being trans and being married when you are lying about being married. You actually don’t have an obligation to tell someone you’re trans. If Micah wanted to be like, I only do these sexual acts and do sexual acts that wouldn’t force him to disclose, he could have done. That’s not immoral. Trans people aren’t obligated to disclose their transness. Whereas I would say that maybe if you’re married in a monogamous relationship, before starting another relationship, you should maybe let that person in on it. I think those are just morally different. So I did not enjoy that, but I did enjoy Micah stirring shit up.

Analyssa: Drew, you’re 100% right.

Drew: So, speaking of writing that needs editing? Tom the editor arrives!

Riese: That’s good.

Drew: Thanks. Thanks. I was pretty proud of that one. It took me a second, but I’m pretty proud of it. Tom arrives. Alice is like, “Can I get you anything?” And he asks for gum, and they make it seem like the weirdest thing ever. And I don’t understand why, because if someone showed up to meet me and was like, “Do you have gum?” I’d be like, “Yes, I do have gum. And thank you for saying that because you are concerned with your dental hygiene and wanting to make the experience of us talking very close to each other pleasant. And so yes, here’s gum and I will also have gum myself.” Because sometimes when people ask for gum, I think, oh no, do I have bad breath and you’re asking for gum, cause you want me to also take a piece of gum? So if anyone ever asks me for gum, I will always also have gum even if I didn’t want gum in case I secretly have bad breath.

Riese: Oh, I always think, “Do you want a piece of gum?” means you have bad breath. And I will not be convinced otherwise.

Analyssa: Yeah. Except that this man chooses Juicy Fruit as that he’s going to use for his breath.

Analyssa: Yeah, that was a little pathological.

Drew: Yeah, no, horrifying. That’s the weird part. That’s what we should talk about.

Riese: But it’s pretty clear that, as we expected, that this is more of a … this is going to be a pretty heavy edit.

Drew: Yeah. And, and unsurprisingly, Alice is not thrilled about having her work edited. That is a very consistent … I think Alice of the entire, all the seasons of The L Word franchise, this is very consistent and makes sense that she would be like, “Are you fucking kidding me?” Professional challenges continue as Bette is meeting with an artist and it’s going well until Griffin Dunn … I need to remember — what’s Griffin Dunn’s name? What’s his character named?

Analyssa: Isaac?

Riese: Isaac, which is an insult to Isaac from the Torah.

Drew: Yeah, the original Isaac, you might say.

Riese: Yeah. OG. The first Isaac.

Drew: He really manages to screw things up, doesn’t he?

Riese: Yeah. It’s like this Black artist who wants to work with Bette and is excited that Bette … somewhat excited like Bette knows his work and really respects it. But he’s like, “I don’t know if I want to work with this guy.” He’s trying to sound smart about what he’s talking about, but he isn’t and… just don’t talk. He is not needed in this meeting. It’s not hard. Just don’t…

Analyssa: Yeah, this is the thing, he could have just swung by and been like, “Hi, it’s so nice to meet you. We’re so excited about this.” But he seems incapable of doing something like that. He can’t just be like, “Okay, great, Bette’s running things.” I’m sure this will become a problem.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it’s embarrassing for Bette. And it’s also like, then you’re like, oh, you’re one of those people, like one of those like white cis men who just cannot take yourself out of a conversation that doesn’t need to involve you.

Analyssa: Well, and Bette is clearly embarrassed, not just at how he’s acting, but also at her role in this meeting now. Like she’s kind of uncomfortable about having brought this person in to meet with her because she works for this guy. Like it just … it’s bad.

Riese: Speaking of awkward workplace politics.

Analyssa: Nice.

Riese: Nailed it.

Drew: That was great. That was great.

Riese: Finley’s eating spoiled yogurt.

Analyssa: Okay. Does that mean there were 12 full size yogurts? Like they couldn’t be individual ones because those all have tops that you rip off and you can’t put back on. She was like, “I was testing them to make sure they’re not expired.”

Riese: They were probably already … they were probably still sealed, but … it’s like, for example, I bought yogurt two months ago. I haven’t eaten it yet. Might not be good. But in the office refrigerator you open up and it’s like, Stephanie, Courtney, all over these little … sharpie all over these little yogurts that haven’t even been opened. And she’s like, “Are these old?” She’s a freegan.

Drew: Yeah. I definitely missed … I did not include any of the yogurt in my notes. That was something I missed. I did have that Sophie and Finley finally talked to each other.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: That is the more important thing that happened in this scene. Yeah, you’re right. I just got really tripped up by the yogurt logistics.

Riese: And Sophie teases Finley a little bit.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I don’t think Finley has ever done anything this emotionally complicated, and she’s actually a kitten on the highway through the whole drive, you know?

Analyssa: When Finley asks Sophie if her grandma was mad at her, that was like—

Riese: Yeah. And so then Sophie and Finley have their big first fight.

Sophie: You should ice that.
Finley: Sorry, I was going to keep it around because I got it defending your honor so…
Sophie: Don’t do that.
Finley: Do what?
Sophie: Don’t make jokes. It’s not funny.
Finley: Okay. Whoa, what do you want me to do here?
Sophie: I want you to feel bad. I want you to feel just as bad as I do right now.
Finley: Hold on. You don’t think I feel bad?
Sophie: Oh, no, I know that you do. You feel bad for yourself. You feel bad for my grandma. Fuck, I bet you feel bad for Dani.
Finley: Of course I fucking feel bad for Dani.
Sophie: And what about me?

Drew: Yeah. And Finley says that Sophie wasn’t happy and Sophie says that she was. And let me tell you, I watched season one and I don’t know if Sophie watched season one, but Sophie was not happy. There’s no world in which like… maybe Sophie was happy in her relationship with Dani at some point—

Riese: Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Drew: But not when all this happened. Absolutely not. Not even a little.

Riese: No.

Analyssa: It would be so helpful if the characters on The L Word could watch previous seasons of The L Word, just so that they could make their decisions and stuff. I think they’d learn a lot.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I just can reread my old essays sometimes and get some perspective.

Riese: I actually have a really great example of this from The L Word, which is when Mark and Gomey hang up cameras all over Shane and Jenny’s house. Then Jenny finds out some stuff about Shane and Carmen by watching everyone’s favorite short film, “Shane Carmen Love Confession.”

Drew: Yeah. So you’re saying that really cis straight men who hang up private cameras to film lesbians are actually—

Analyssa: Performing a service.

Drew: … what we need more of in the world. I would be worried about joking about that if I thought that we had any cis straight men who listened to our podcast. That’d be wild. If you’re a straight cis man who listens to our podcast, please email us. I want to know your story. I want to tell you that you’re secretly a trans woman and help you on that journey.

Riese: I want to tell you that if you are that way and because of that, you’re making extra money, you could give it to us and thank you for your support and your service to us as a community. I would probably be nice to you in person. I would definitely be nice to you in person.

Drew: Anyways, Alice calls them out on this.

Analyssa: Because this fight gets pretty explosive.

Riese: Heated.

Drew: Oh yeah.

Analyssa: I don’t really understand … like Sophie makes a really big point of being like, Finley hurt … like you hurt me. And I …

Drew: No.

Analyssa: … think that’s not exactly what happened. And Sophie really … this is to Riese’s point earlier.

Riese: She hurt Dani.

Analyssa: Yeah. Sophie was the one who did this. And if there is something that was done wrong, Sophie hurt Dani. And that’s the wrong that has been done. But Sophie really seems to want everybody to be sad that she is adrift now, which is sort of to your thing earlier. Like she’s going through something about what it means for her and that’s not really the focus.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I think what’s happening is that the writers are like, Rosanny Zayas is incredibly attractive and incredibly talented, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to try to make Sophie unlikable and also wrong. And we’re going to see if she can pull it off that people are still going to be rooting for her. And you know what, I still am.

Riese: I’m still rooting for her.

Analyssa: I’m still rooting for her. It’s complicated, but I am.

Riese: It’s complicated, yeah.

Drew: So the test worked. But I do wonder about why… about some of these reactions. But I think she’s justifying them. I’m just like, wow, you are a mess.

Riese: Right. Again, this is completely off the charts emotional, absolute anarchy for all of these people. Like everything the ground has been pulled out from underneath them. And like all of that catering and dress … all that suit. Maybe she’ll wear that suit some other time, I guess. She looked nice in the suit.

Analyssa: She looked good in the suit.

Riese: Yeah, she did look good in the suit.

Drew: Maybe when she inevitably, or I’m hoping inevitably, gets together with Finley, they kind of do a little bit of really toxic role playing where she’s wearing her wedding suit, Finley walks into the bedroom and goes, “Hello?” And then they have sex. Just throwing that out there.

Riese: Yeah, she’s like, “I think you love me too.”

Analyssa: Sophie’s like, “Yes.”

Riese: And then Sophie just like clobbers her and they fuck in the alley and then it turns into a big orgy. And Marissa and Nat finally have their moment.

Drew: Great, yeah.

Analyssa: I loved—

Riese: Speaking of.

Analyssa: Well, I loved Alice’s little green outfit when she comes in to break up the fight.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s really good.

Drew: I loved Alice saying—

Alice: I know lesbians. I know a lot of lesbians.

Drew: That was similarly to like, “for us as lesbians.” It was like one of those things where I don’t actually remember the total context of it, but I did write down that phrase because I just really like the idea of saying, “I know lesbians. I know a lot of lesbians.”

Riese: Did you see, she has a bisexual flag on her desk?

Analyssa: I didn’t.

Drew: That’s nice.

Riese: She has a little bi flag on her desk.

Analyssa: Good for her. We’ll talk about that later I’m sure.

Drew: Finley quits, because Finley is always wanting to do right by other people, even as she continuously blows up people’s lives.

Analyssa: She’s such a … yeah. She’s a real Ferdinand the Bull — I’ve actually never read that — but she’s just so big and clumsy and hurts people, but then really wants to be kind. Like she wants to be going against her nature. Anyway. It’s really sweet.

Drew: Ferdinand the Bull is a really good story. You should … if you have any younger cousins or any children in your life, Ferdinand the Bull is a really sweet kids’ book.

Riese: Yeah. Or you could have a baby. Just quit your job, get married.

Analyssa: Don’t get promoted.

Riese: Have a baby, read them Ferdinand the Bull.

Analyssa: Perfect.

Riese: That’s a life that a person could live right there. And that’s not a bad one as lives go.

Drew: It is. I do want to move on to the next scene because it’s my favorite scene that’s ever happened in the history of visual mediums.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s important.

Drew: So Bette’s ranting to Gigi about her job. And Gigi’s like … because she’s like, “He’s using me,” and Gigi’s like, “Well, use him back.”

Riese: I thought it was really nice that we had a scene where Bette has a partner who she can talk to about racial microaggressions, because we have not seen that at all. She’s always kind of been not really with someone she can talk to about any of that.

Analyssa: That’s a really good point. And Gigi does kind of instantly get the dynamics at play.

Riese: Exactly.

Analyssa: Instead of … yeah.

Drew: This was the best sex scene ever.

Riese: Tell us more.

Drew: Okay. I can just read my notes cause I actually realized that they’re pretty … So basically I just have in all caps, “GIGI LICKING BETTE’S BOOBS.” Then, new note, all caps, “GIGI SAYING, ‘WAIT.’ New note, all caps, “TOP OFF.”

Riese: Top off!

Drew: New note, “Bette biting her tongue.” I say in all caps “OGM” but I think I meant to write “OMG.”

Riese: You were just all mixed up inside?

Analyssa: So discombobulated.

Drew: Yeah. New note, “I literally screamed in this hotel room,” which is true. I was in the hotel in Ohio and…

Riese: Nothing like that has ever happened in that hotel before.

Drew: I fully screamed. No, I’m pretty sure that there’s been some screaming in that hotel. I can actually say for certain. Anyways, so I … what are you going to do in Ohio? You’re bored. I actually think there’s probably more chaotic sex that happens in that hotel than anywhere else. Because what else are you going to do in Cincinnati?

Riese: You’re right.

Drew: Except eat chili and have chaotic sex, but probably not in that order. So anyways, then my last note was just, “Uh uh, answer me,” which was in quotes because it’s what Gigi says. And then another “OMG,” but this time I actually got the lettering correct. It was just like … I often talk about how I do feel like I’m a top, but a top how wants to be with other tops. And I’ve had people be like, “Oh, that sounds like a lot of like wrestling or it just sounds like a lot of…” And I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, absolutely.” It was … and this was exactly, when watching this, I was like, yes, this. Do you not see the appeal of this?

Analyssa: And they literally do wrestle. They kind of like grapple with…

Drew: It’s extremely hot.

Riese: It’s great. I had a great time watching. In my head, when I think of two tops having sex, I think of that scene in season five where they were running through potential hookups for Lez Girls and they had Bette and Helena just kind of wrestling each other in their big 2008 pants. And that’s, to me … but this is like, it’s actually happening. And I also really appreciated that they really took time with just some very erotic kisses, that that can be a whole genre that is actually… Usually they just rush in to the fucking.

Analyssa: Yeah. These two people are really good at kissing each other by the way.

Riese: Yeah. It’s nice.

Analyssa: Great kissing. Which I think Bette realized on their date when … because she … they do the first kiss—

Riese: Oh, yeah, that’s true.

Analyssa: And then she kind of pulls back and looks at Gigi like, “what the fuck?” And then kisses her again. So I think she also knows. They’re good at kissing.

Drew: This was good. And I am happy that it happened and it really… Any doubts that I’ve had about The L Word, about The L Word: Generation Q, I just want to say that they were … it was all made okay by this.

Riese: In this moment, everything …

Analyssa: That meme of Lindsay Lohan being like, “I never said that. Paris is my friend,” is true right now. “I never said that. Gen Q is my friend.”

Riese: Great. Well, speaking of people who’ve had sex with Gigi.

Analyssa:Great, great transition.

Drew: I really love it.

Analyssa: This one is going to be less fun though, sadly.

Drew: Yeah. This actually is … Alice gets home, Nat’s asleep, her favorite hobby, sleeping.

Riese: Sleeping with a laptop.

Analyssa: Okay, as someone who is very sleepy, I stand with Nat. People sleep! I don’t know. Whatever. My notes literally say, “Alice, people sleep.” I was so mad on Nat’s behalf. Anyway, that’s not the point. Well, actually it is.

Riese: It kind of is the point.

Analyssa: It is. It is the point.

Drew: Alice tries to open Nat’s phone with Nat’s face, which first of all, isn’t going to work because that’s not how FaceID … you need your eyes to be open. And second of all, that is, I just want to say, such a deal breaker to me.

Riese: Oh, absolutely.

Drew: Like if you try to get into someone’s… you try to get into my phone, you try to get to my computer, I mean, I have nothing to hide, but if you do that, that is… no. That’s the end of whatever relationship we had. It’s such a violation. And just such a sign that you don’t trust someone and a sign that you’re not willing to trust someone or make an effort to trust someone. It’s really… it’s no good. Not good, Alice.

Analyssa: It’s also just that Alice knows that something is going on with Nat, which great. But her reaction is to snoop instead of to just do the math in your head.

Riese: Ask her.

Analyssa: Or even just do the math in your head and realize like, hmm, my girlfriends brought up for throuples and open relationships like five times in the last two days. And then she goes and cries in the bathroom. I don’t think it’s that hard. And what does she think she’s going to find on Nat’s phone?

Riese: Yeah, that’s the other thing. Nat did attempt to open a conversation with her. Nat’s a therapist. Nat fucking loves to communicate. Alice was the one who was like, “No, there’s no need to communicate if you’re not a bad person.” Alice, I’m pretty sure if you asked Nat what was up, she would literally just tell you. What are you going to find on her fucking phone?

Drew: I mean, Alice was like, “Are you okay?” and Nat was like, “I am,” when she clearly wasn’t. But also, I do think that if Alice had taken a second to be like, “Nat, I know you’re not okay, please talk to me,” Nat would have. I think it’s very clear when someone is more concerned about the relationship, and what the status of the relationship is going to mean for that person as an individual, as opposed to being concerned about your partner, because your partner is having a hard time and you’re worried about them. I think when you don’t have the capacity to go beyond yourself and be like, “Actually this might not even be about me. My partner is going through something and I want to provide support to her,” and that’s where Alice’s mind should be. It shouldn’t be like, “What’s Nat up to, how is it going to affect me?” Sometimes your partner is just going through something and you need to talk about it, and they need to talk about it. I don’t know, it’s a big bummer.

Riese: It’s a common trope these days, but only for thrillers, and crime shows, where someone’s trying to get some intel.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, look, I think it’s realistic. I think people constantly look at their partner’s phones without permission, I think it happens all the time. I think it’s bad though. Don’t do that. Stop doing that, people out there, talk to your partners, or if you don’t trust your partner, you shouldn’t be with that person.

Riese: Yeah. Speaking of original cast members giving questionable advice—

Drew: I don’t think Alice was giving advice, but I do appreciate the effort of that transition.

Riese: Thank you so much. All right. Yeah, Alice was giving… Speaking of—

Drew: Which is what people said to me in early 2017. So yeah, so Finley is getting a pep talk from Shane and Tess.

Riese: It’s cute and makes no sense.

Analyssa: It’s cute, and absolutely chaotic, and illegible.

Drew: Which I’m into. Yeah, and Finley thinks that she and Sophie would actually work as a couple, and I really liked this moment, because I do relate to that feeling sometimes, where you’re in the middle of a bunch of chaos and you’re like, “I just see a world where if there wasn’t the chaos, this would work.” It’s such a delusional thought because, no, the chaos is so ingrained in it. But there is that feeling in your stomach where you’re like, “No, but if I had just met this person in a different world… Like we had just met each other, and we both could get over our shit, we could, it could work.” And it just ignores how important timing is to relationships. It ignores that you, actually, can’t snap your fingers and be a better adjusted version of yourself, and same with the person who you’re into. I believe that Sophie and Finley could be together in a healthy way, but you’re living in a fictional world of your relationship.

Analyssa: That’s so far from the world where you have showed up to Sophie’s wedding, in front of everyone you guys know. Anyway.

Riese: But that said, another thing about this scene though, is that Finley, she doesn’t explain. She explains a little bit of what was going through her mind when she did this, most importantly that she didn’t know the wedding… She wasn’t planning on interrupting the wedding. She’s obviously an idiot and did not… I can say that because Sophie always tells her she’s stupid, but she’s obviously not — maybe she hasn’t been to a lot of lesbian weddings. She did not know that the timing would be her walking into a wedding. She thought that she would ruin it beforehand, which honestly, is a kinder, if she’s going to, you know? That’s different. It’s still not okay, but it’s still a different… And also, Sophie should have already told Dani about this to begin with, right? So is this on Finley, but also, when Alice called and said that Sophie missed her, that Finley was like, “Oh, okay! I’ll go save her. She obviously wants me back, but can’t say anything because she’s trapped with Dani.” It makes a little bit more sense, what was going through Finley’s mind at the time. Then the joke about her hat was really cute.

Finley: I didn’t think I was walking into the actual, real wedding. In a hat. I walked in a fucking hat!
Shane: I know, we were there.

Drew: When she walked in the door, though, she could have been like, “Oh, this is happening! Oh no, I’m going to sit down.” I will say that of all the people who did wrong, definitely Finley did not handle this well, but she’s not high on my list. I even think that Micah was, I mean obviously he was less chaotic, but I do think morally Micah’s more in the wrong than Finley in this whole situation, of not telling his best friend about this, versus Finley being the one who was like, “You shouldn’t get married!” I mean, that was what I was doing while they were getting married. I was shouting at my TV, “Um, excuse me! Finley’s in love with you and I think you’re in love with her too.” So Finley was just saying what everybody should have been saying a good two months earlier? Is the timeframe, I think, I’m going to exist in? And Shane laughs and says that the whole thing is Alice’s fault, and that killed me.

Riese: Oh, and also, we find out that Finley got sober over the summer, which, I don’t know why I’m thinking she took a summer vacation. Well, because Alice’s show was on hiatus, so I assumed it was the summer.

Drew:Yeah, I think it was the summer.

Riese: And then they decide to give Finley a job, because Finley’s now unemployed.

Drew: Which is nice, I liked that development. Even though I don’t necessarily know if working at a bar and underground poker game is really the healthiest place for Finley at this point in her life?

Analyssa: I don’t know that Finley will be very good at this either, she’s kind of bumbling. It’s a lot easier, I think, to be a bumbling set PA, than it is to be a bumbling bartender. That’s just my guess having not done the bartender job. And then…

Riese: Speaking of Finley. How’s that?

Analyssa: That was great.

Drew: Yeah, she sure is in that next scene.

Analyssa: She’s in the next scene also.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So she goes back to Dani and Sophie’s, or whoever’s house it is now.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Micah and—

Analyssa: Micah’s there.

Drew: Micah’s house.

Analyssa: And she and Micah have, I thought, a really sweet conversation. Finley, again, trying to be kind to everyone is like, “Micah, you’re not the Finley.” Then Micah is like, “Well, that was kind of fucked up also.”

Riese: Yeah. Finley’s like, “I know I fucked up. And I know everyone’s mad at me and hates me.” Then Micah’s like—

Micah: You’re really hard not to love.

Riese: And that was really cute.

Analyssa: That was really sweet.

Riese: And then.

Drew: Needle drop!

Riese: What the fuck!? What were they doing? Who let this happen? Is this legal? I don’t know if it’s legal?

Analyssa: Why was this the needle drop?

Riese: I don’t know if this is legal.

Drew: So then, “Driver’s License” plays. I will say, the thing that bothered me most about it was, that when the song starts playing, we’re with Finley to begin with. I was like, “Wait a second. Finley is not Olivia…” Olivia being Olivia Rodrigo, “Is not Olivia in this scenario. She is literally ‘that blonde girl.’” So then when we cut to Dani being a mess, I was like—

Riese: That makes sense.

Drew: This song is working for me better. It still is a move to use the most popular song of the moment in your montage. The thing is though, is that the way that I feel every time “Driver’s License” plays, where I go, “This is a really great song. I think it really deserves to be as famous as it is.” I felt that while watching it too. I don’t necessarily think that it was the best artistic choice, but I do think that it felt the way it does when it comes on shuffle for me, where I go, “This song. Pretty good song. Pretty good song.”

Analyssa: It had the effect, more to me, of seeing your teacher outside of school. Sorry, these are different universes.

Riese: Yeah, because the song became popular during quarantine, and specifically on TikTok, it was really big. So it felt like this was my private song, for me, in my bed at one in the morning watching TikTok, than it was a public song that I might hear in the middle of the fucking L Word.

Analyssa: Yeah, for The L Word: Gen Q to spring on me.

Riese: And then I obviously had to cry.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Dani doesn’t cry though, Dani pukes on her long run.

Riese: Oh man. Her run, and having all those flashbacks, I was like, “Oh God, that’s so painful. That’s just so painful.” I thought that was really well done. It really showed Dani’s character and also what she’s going through.

Drew: Yeah, I was into that. And again, it even worked with me with the song, when we were with Dani. I’m sure Dani’s listening to Sour, I mean truly, who has earned the right to listen to Sour more than Dani at this point?

Riese: I don’t know what that is.

Drew: Sour is Olivia Rodrigo’s album.

Riese: Oh.

Drew: Have you not listened to the whole album?

Riese: Yeah, of course I have. But I wasn’t looking at my Spotify, I was keeping my eyes on the road.

Drew: I famously don’t drive.

Analyssa: Famously.

Riese: Famously.

Drew: I mean, I do drive. I just don’t have a car in LA. So I listened to it a lot.

Riese: Once you get it, you’ll be able to drive by your ex’s house.

Drew: When that album came out, I was like, “Ah, I really wish that I could get into a relationship and then get my heart broken, then I could really be into this.”

Riese: Listen to it, yeah!

Analyssa: I just project myself into bad relationships that I’ve been in as a younger person.

Riese: I know, I’ve been re-mourning so many breakups through this album, while also thinking, “You just got your driver’s license and you already think that you have had the love of your life slip out of your fingers? Come on.”

Drew: That’s how it feels when you’re that age!

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: That’s how it feels! I respect it, and I support that very emotional, adolescent Pisces in all of her future endeavors.

Analyssa: She’s a Pisces? That makes so much sense.

Drew: Uh, yeah!

Analyssa: So Tess and Shane are really vibing. Tess thinks that Shane is sweet after this conversation with Finley, and she says it, like, 16 times in this conversation. Keeps saying the word sweet, which has to be, A, the first time anyone’s ever called Shane that and, B, the record for how many times anyone’s called Shane that.

Drew: I think Shane is sweet.

Analyssa: I think so too. I don’t think she’s not.

Drew: She’s a very good friend.

Analyssa: I just don’t think that’s what people are calling Shane.

Riese: I have a complaint.

Analyssa: What’s your complaint?

Drew: What?

Riese: In this scene, Tess opens up emotionally to Shane about her mother having MS. Then she says Shane needs to open up to her, and Shane uses that opportunity to share a very uninteresting fact. In fact, one that, as a co-worker, as somebody who is running this bar with her, should probably know anyway, there’s nothing emotional about it, about her needing the money, or something, from this. Number two, I actually don’t believe her. I actually don’t believe that Quiara would get half of her everything when Quiara is this very successful performer on her own. I also don’t believe that that means Shane now has no hope but an underground poker game.

Analyssa: Yeah, that was where I got stuck.

Riese: It was just stupid.

Analyssa: You think that the money-making opportunity here is to run an underground poker game?

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Famously you can lose a lot of money in really high stakes poker games.

Drew: I think that sometimes, I’ve learned, rich people think that they’re broke when they just have slightly less money, and they like to be dramatic about it. So that didn’t actually bother me that much. Also, because Shane can be emotionally closed off, this did feel like a confession. It all checked out for me, even if it was annoying. I understand your complaint, but that’s more of a complaint I have with Shane McCutcheon, and not a complaint I have with the writing of Shane, you know what I mean?

Riese: I wanted her to be like, “I never had a hamster, but I did have a pet fish,” and then be like, “And also, I burned down Wax.”

Drew: Yeah. That’s still not canon to me. I can’t get on board with that. I think that’s just so wild. Tess says that Shane is like a sweet, feral cat.

Riese: So many cats. I’m allergic to this episode.

Drew: Finley is a kitten on the highway and Shane is a sweet, feral cat. I always thought that Shane and Finley had a little bit of, there’s some symmetry there, so that works. That works for me. Speaking of people who are sweet, Micah is telling Dani that she could forgive Sophie, that is an option. He says that she has all the power and that she can forgive if she wants to forgive. Which, I really don’t want her to because they were not working.

Analyssa: I think this is good friend advice.

Drew: No, it’s great friend advice.

Analyssa: It’s really good modeling.

Riese: She is also mean to him.

Analyssa: She is so mean to him. I think she’s just, like I said, she’s leading with anger. She is mad at everyone. I would be sad. I would be in my bed and speaking to no one. You would, effectively, not hear from me for weeks. But she’s like, “I want to yell at everyone.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: I, still, am very much mad at Micah for… Because I just think that sometimes people who are nice, are conflict averse. Then you feel like they’re not harming you, but actually, they… This is just, I don’t know. Maybe it’s bringing up specific things for me, but I do think Micah really fucked this one up.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’s obviously not his fault the way it’s Sophie’s fault, but I get Dani having some anger. But this was really nice. This was nice advice and I’m glad that they’re reconciling. I don’t think that Dani needs to hold a grudge, but I understand her initially being angry at Micah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I don’t think it’s out of line. I would also be like… Yeah. The only other thing I want to say about Micah is that I love that everyone cares about Sophie’s family, and their dishware, so much. He’s like, “That belongs to Sophie’s grandma, don’t be mean!”

Riese: Yeah, mind the pottery.

Analyssa: Which I thought was very sweet.

Drew: Yeah, that is sweet.

Analyssa: Okay. We missed, I think there’s a scene somewhere in here, where Alice invites Sophie to this poker game that’s about to happen, and that’s fine. The point is, now we’re at the social event of the season, this underground lesbian poker game, which is just Shane’s friends, coming to hang out and play poker, but spending thousands of dollars on it.

Riese: Both of Gigi’s boobs are at the table.

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: Great shirt.

Analyssa: Great, she, oh, I can’t. Whatever.

Drew: I’m in love with her.

Analyssa: I think I’m in love with her. It’s actually difficult for me to watch scenes that she’s in. But, Bette, Gigi, and Alice are all sitting at one table. Sophie is at the table. Finley is bartending. This is just—

Drew: Chaos.

Riese: A recipe for delight, in the worst way possible.

Drew: Gay-os.

Riese: Yeah, this is gay-os!

Analyssa: This is akin to the campfire episode that we talked about last time. It’s just everyone in one room—

Riese: In a circle.

Analyssa: All looking at each other and we all have to talk.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Okay, so Bette’s being a little bit judgy about Sophie. And I was mad, but not as mad as I will be! But first, we get Maribel and Micah being cute.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yes, oh my God. It’s almost like they’re falling madly in love, and they’re going to bone, and they’re going to be together, and it’s going to be so cute. And I’m going to be so excited for everyone, especially me, and also them. These fictional characters who I have an investment in for some reason.

Analyssa: They have such a fun little banter, I loved it.

Riese: Yeah, because she teases, she makes him laugh. She teases him in a way that I think is really cute. And I just like her character so much.

Analyssa: Yeah. I think she’s great.

Drew: I mean, the reason why I’m invested in it is because they’re two characters that were underwritten in the first season. It would be nice if having a relationship together would mean that they could both have richer storylines that could let the actors do what they can do.

Riese: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Analyssa: Yes, agreed.

Drew: It makes total sense that you’re excited about it. Even beyond your prediction being right, which is always a very satisfying thing to happen.

Riese: I love fucking being right.

Drew: Yeah. Going back to the poker game, I have to file a complaint now. And we know that I love Bette, that I’m a Bette defender.

Riese: Absolutely.

Drew: But the problem is, that Bette has done one thing in her entire life that I have never forgiven her for — which is saying something, because she’s actually done quite a few things in her life. But the one thing she’s done in her life, that I have not forgiven her for, is cheating on Jodi with Tina. I’m aware that when the original series was on, and I was three years old or however old I was.

Riese: I was 75.

Drew: Yeah. When Riese was 75 and I was three, I know that there were a lot of Bettina shippers who just did not care how many bodies were left behind as we were getting them back together, which is just a wild stance to have, but again, I’m not judging.

Riese: If you’re a Bettina shipper and you like this podcast, that’s fine. We love and respect you.

Drew: It’s a safe space, but.

Analyssa: This is a safe space, but.

Drew: I love you, I don’t necessarily respect you.

Analyssa: Drew’s on a little tear right now.

Drew: But I… No, obviously it’s fine. I’m a Bette-Alice shipper, I’m insane. But I was so mad about that happening. So, the fact that Bette is being a bitch to Sophie, and being like, “How could anyone ever do anything like this?” And then, on top of that, when Shane’s like, “Um, excuse me, you’ve done things wrong.” She’s like—

Bette: I cheated on Tina 17 years ago, and I will regret it for the rest of my life.

Drew: And I’m like, “You also cheated on Jodi!” You also fucked your TA! The amount of bad things you’ve done, Bette—

Riese: If we could itemize for a second. Number one, she cheated on Alice with Tina, who was in a relationship with a man. Two, she cheated on Tina with the carpenter. Three, she hooked up with her TA, which is incredibly inappropriate. Four, she started dating another teacher at her university, which is already a little bit ethically cloudy, and then cheated on her. And it’s not even, just, that she cheated on Jodi with Tina, but she kept Jodi around.

Drew: Oh, she had a full affair.

Riese: Yeah, as she was figuring shit out with Tina, and that is fucked up. There’s lots of hard parts about being cheated on, but in my opinion, the hardest part is, sort of, the gaslighting. This denial of the reality that you’re living in, and you start to feel crazy. You start to feel weird, like something’s off, but they keep saying nothing’s off. That is fucked up. So there’s that and then, even in this series, she was dating a colleague who she kept seeing secretly, even though it was kind of disrespectful of people in her campaign, who were working really hard for her. And I don’t relate to all of her bad decisions, but I understand that we all are people who’ve made mistakes, and I’ve made quite a few, which is why I would never sit at a table and be all holier than thou towards Sophie! Ever! Ever.

Drew: Yeah, exactly. That’s the thing is that, the only reason we need to list these things off is because she is asking for it, by being like, “I made this one mistake 17 years ago,” and it’s like, no, no.

Riese: No.

Drew: No, no. You are a serial cheater.

Riese: Are we supposed to think that Bette is only sharing that one anecdote because she’s trying to hide the other ones? Or did everyone forget that that’s what happened?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I couldn’t tell.

Drew: I think it’s that… A lot of other people at that table know, they could have called her out on it.

Analyssa: Yeah, but I think Bette’s narrative, in her brain, is actually… Especially with the Carrie thing happening right now. Her thought about herself, and her life story is like, “If I had never cheated on Tina that one time, actually, none of this would have happened, and we would still be together and happy.” That is genuinely, I think, what she thinks.

Riese: Oh yeah. That was the fork in the road.

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s the big, overarching thing that has happened.

Riese: Also, Tina just had a miscarriage. I forgot to add that to the—

Drew: Right. I think Bette is narrativizing her life in a way that is not healthy, but makes sense, where she’s like, “Tina was my life, and so cheating on Alice to be with Tina? That’s morally okay, because it got me with Tina. Cheating on Jodi to get back with Tina was okay, because I never really left Tina.” It’s these series of things where it’s like, “No, no, no. Those are also people. Those are also people who were hurt in your pursuit of your Ross and Rachel.” I know that some people, maybe, were on board, and were like, “Bette and Tina endgame,” whatever else happens doesn’t matter.

Riese: I was on board, if we’re being honest. I was really into it.

Drew: And that’s fine. But, it is just this thing where in the real life of the universe, those are real people who have real feelings, and you deeply hurt them. So anyways.

Riese: And Jodi was poly before she met Bette, and wanted to have an open relationship.

Drew: Yeah, she wanted to be open! The worst. Awful. Alice wins the poker game and, you know what? I don’t think Alice has ever really cheated, so good for her. I mean she got close. She got close.

Riese: Oh yeah, she almost hooked up with the girl from Heavenly Creatures. The fashion designer, when they wore matching outfits on that little scooter.

Analyssa: On the little scooter!

Drew: Yeah, but she didn’t. So…

Analyssa: The only other thing I have to say is that, sadly for me, this scene confirmed a little bit more my kinship with Alice. Because, I too used to drink like one beer, and then show everyone my cards, and be like, “This is good, right?” And they’re like, “That’s not how you play cards.” Anyway.

Riese: I thought you were being metaphorical there.

Analyssa: Nope. Sadly, no. Just absolutely, literally showing physical cards to people.

Drew: Alice may not have ever cheated, but she’s still not a perfect partner, because Nat comes out to her as polyamorous and Alice is terrible about it.

Riese: Furious.

Analyssa: Alice is really bad at this. This is no good.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But there’s also another thing that happens, that’s also not good, in this scene. Which is that, Nat’s like—

Alice: Okay.
Nat: It’s no different than you being bi.
Alice: What?!
Nat: Yeah. I’m poly and you’re bi.
Alice: That is not the same!
Nat: It’s actually exactly the same. It’s parts of our identities that need to be explored.

Drew: Which, there’s a way that that could have been said.

Riese: Exactly.

Drew: But it was certainly not said, the way that it should have been said. I don’t know if we’re supposed to think it was said in the way it should have been said, but there’s just so many reasons why that is not a fair equivalency, because someone’s bisexuality does not actually impact their monogamous relationship, if they’re in a monogamous relationship. Whereas, if someone is polyamorous and wants to pursue that, as opposed to, “Oh yes, I’m generally poly, but I’m in a monogamous relationship because I want to make that compromise,” if someone is, “I’m poly and I want to explore that,” that actually does impact the other person in a monogamous partnership. So there’s a line of thinking of, “I have this side of myself. Why are you being judgmental? You know how people in the queer community can be judgmental to people who have experiences that are outside of the norm.” There’s that way of saying it. That’s not what she said.

Riese: Or that it’s something that is intrinsic to just her, like it’s part of who she is, and she can’t change it. She can’t talk herself out of being poly any more than Alice could talk herself out of being bi. It just is who she is, which I think is different than what they say, which is…

Drew: Right. So, not the best, especially considering the show has not the best history with talking about bisexuality. I didn’t love that this was how it was phrased. It was just, “Oh boy,” you know? But remember when Bette and Gigi had that sex scene earlier? That was really good. That was like a real good sex scene.

Analyssa: Great point.

Riese: I loved that Nat… I think it’s fun, though, that they’re making Nat the one who’s figuring out that she’s poly, because she seems sort of straight-laced compared to a lot of the other characters, you know?

Drew: Yeah. Totally. Totally.

Riese: And so I feel like that’s an interesting thing to do, but… And then Alice was like, “But I haven’t been interested in any men or looked at any men” or something. I’m like, “What are you talking about? What’s happening?” It was very confusing. But also, props to Nat, who somehow wants to have a full-time job, two kids, a relationship, and other relationships.

Analyssa: And Gigi in her life, taking on so much stuff.

Riese: Exactly. They say women can’t do it all, but Nat’s ready to do it all.

Analyssa: Nat wants to do it all. She’s gotten her hair color touched up for this season. She’s ready to take on the world.

Riese: She sure is.

Analyssa: I love that for her. I don’t think Alice and Nat belong together, but I do like when they’re happy together, because they are fun to be around. Those two actresses, I say this every episode, but Leisha Hailey and Stephanie Allynne are just so fun and quippy and on it, that it makes me sad when they’re sad together.

Drew: Also, I don’t know, I’m just so confused. I feel Alice definitely had a lot of feelings and got really attached and definitely had jealousy and et cetera, et cetera. But also she was pretty fun and sexually adventurous. I don’t really understand this either last season, her being anti-throuple, or this season being anti-poly in general. It doesn’t feel like a necessary… It’s also just this thing where I do sometimes think that fighting is just a really easy way to have conflict and that there are actually other ways to have it. If Nat and Alice were poly and both on board for that, conflicts could arise that aren’t, “We vehemently disagree with each other on the very nature of our relationship.” They could just be smaller conflicts that could be really interesting to explore and play in. I do think sometimes this show, in both iterations, has a tendency to be like, “Every conflict must be the biggest thing that it can be.” And sometimes it actually isn’t the more interesting choice. Again, I get it’s a soap opera, so it’s fine to make it big, but I think if we could get more group sex… Fighting isn’t the only way to make things big. So, I’m just saying, you can also add people to a sex scene.

Analyssa: That’s bigger. That’s big.

Drew: That could be big. Much bigger.

Riese: And it’s also, with these characters, we have this history for all of them. They have this long history and it feels like they’re really resistant to bring to bear upon anything, which is so confusing to me, because that’s such a great place to go into a show. You have all these people you’re creating from scratch and these other people who have this known history. Bette did cheat on Alice. Alice did lose Dana to Lara and then Dana died. Alice was with Tasha who then kind of fell for Jamie a little bit. Alice has this history that could explain why, even if in her mind, Alice exploring my portals season, that kind of sexually adventurous person just can’t do non-monogamy because they just have too much baggage from other relationships, I’m sure especially Dana. We didn’t see that because it was between seasons, but that would have been so, so hard, because I’m sure there was a period of time when she was like, “Okay, I’m just going to trust her to hang out with Laura and that’s totally fine.” And then was like, “I guess it’s really not,” but she doesn’t mention any of that.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Right. That’s a really good point. Yeah. I don’t know why the show is so resistant to take… I mean, I’m aware that we all know the original series more than maybe the average viewer, but you don’t need… Even if people don’t come in with that context memorized, you can still reference that context, the same way that you can write character backstories, even if you’ve never had a prequel.

Riese: I know I talk about my exes constantly, and more than the average person, for sure, but it’s egregious, especially when… last season I had the same feeling, when that throuple was happening. Like, “This would be a time to talk about what happened with Tasha and Jamie. This isn’t your first rodeo.”

Drew: Right. Well, the fights continue, as Dani goes to see Sophie. And it’s like, “Oh, is she going to take Micah’s advice and forgive?” And let me tell you, that’s not what’s happening.

Analyssa: Absolutely not.

Drew: Sophie begs her to forgive her and Dani’s like, “Nope.” And Dani’s right, because it’s not that you can’t come back from cheating or breaking of trust or anything, but the level that this got to, she can’t get back. I mean, there’s just no world where she could get back together with Sophie and it would be healthy at all. I don’t see that. The balance is so off. I don’t see how it could possibly happen.

Riese: Yeah. And also the wedding, because they’re both very wedding-, family-, marriage-focused people. I think that was one of the things they had in common, is they both have that desire for this monogamous marriage and relationship pretty early in their lives. But if they were going to get back together, would they try to get married again? Because if I were Dani, I would just have a panic attack that whole time thinking, “Oh my God, this is somebody who might have cheated on me.” Would Sophie have ever cheated on Dani again? No, but—

Analyssa: But you’re always going to be thinking like… Is this the scene where Dani is like, “It was the night that you cried in our bed?”

Riese: Oh, right. Yeah.

Analyssa: Any time Sophie comes home crying, you’re going to be like, “Okay, is this it?” Once you’ve put those pieces together and come up with the—

Riese: Full puzzle.

Analyssa: “This big thing happened on these big events of our life.” You’re right, it seems impossible to build back up to like, “Okay, we’re going to happily get married. We can never go to Hawaii again, first of all.”

Riese: Yeah, that whole state’s off the map.

Analyssa: That whole state is just ruined for Dani. There’s just so many things that just won’t… Anyway.

Drew: I mean, the harsh truth is that Dani is going to be haunted by this in all of her future relationships. It’s not even a matter of, if she got back with Sophie, would she be haunted by this? It’s like, of course she would be, because the next time she’s with anybody, those scars live on. That level of hurt, that level of betrayal, you don’t just bounce back from that. And so, you can’t dwell. So, I don’t know. I mean, I think the thing about making Sophie really in the wrong is that I was so team Sophie in the first season and now I’m warming up to Dani in a way that’s fun, because I want to like all of our friends. And Dani makes the right choice here, and then Dani makes another right choice, because she goes to Bette’s and gives her a hug. And I don’t know what happens after that. Probably nothing, but it’s still nice. It’s still a good choice.

Analyssa: But it’s not nothing.

Riese: That was so nice. I was really excited and happy that she did that.

Analyssa: And Sophie gets to cry with her family, too. I just thought there was some good… This was really shitty and sad and they both have something to lean on, which is nice.

Riese: Yeah. And also it’s nice that she got to lean on Bette. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah, especially Bette. Yeah.

Riese: Because it is kind of like a power move when you go over to the city’s top lesbian and she will embrace you.

Analyssa: Yeah, like the the city’s queen lesbian.

Riese: Yeah. And you’re probably still kind of attracted to her, and even if nothing happens, at least you’re like, “I’m in Bette Porter’s arms.” And that in and of itself is a win, regardless of context.

Analyssa: And Bette Porter’s in a robe, too.

Riese: Yeah, she’s in a robe.

Analyssa: I don’t know.

Riese: Probably a really expensive robe.

Analyssa: It probably feels really nice. You know?

Riese: Yeah. She’s probably like, “Let’s get you out of this robe and into my dreams.”

Drew: Yeah. Everything’s really shaking out the way that I personally wanted it to, because Sophie goes home and sees Finley and then she asks Finley to stay. So maybe something’s going to happen there too.

Analyssa: They’re doing this full dance around each other. I think you’re right, Riese. It’s like Sophie can’t really be like, “Okay, great. I’m just going to do the Finley thing,” because that’s insane. That is bad optics, if she’s just like—

Riese: Right. Then you’re the bad couple. You’re the ones who cheated and messed everything up, and now you’re with each other. It’s difficult. Yeah.

Analyssa: And now you’re happy? That’s no good.

Drew: Okay, here’s my crazy stance, though, that I know everyone disagrees with me on. If I’m Dani, I would want Sophie and Finley to be together.

Analyssa: Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: Because if they got together, I’d be like, “Oh, so you were actually, there was something here. It was meaningful.” If they don’t, then it’s like, “Wow, you blew up our lives for nothing. You have so little respect for me that a fuck with our friend was worth destroying me.” If it’s like, “Oh, you spent three years in a relationship with this person,” I’m like, “Okay, well I guess it was worth it to you.”

Drew: Someone in high school who really, really hurt me, the person who they started dating right after that, they’re married now. And I’m like, “Well, I was never going to marry you, so I’m glad that you made that choice, and I really do forgive you for bailing on me at prom.” Because I’m like, “You fully have a husband now with this boy we went to high school with.” So, I love that. I do understand that the side eyes would be pretty intense, but if it’s real, that means more.

Riese: Yeah, I think you’re right.

Analyssa: That’s really mature of you. If I were Dani, I’d want neither of them to be happy ever again.

Riese: I would want them to be together, because I’d be like… At least once I got better… Because Dani’s going to find someone else who’s better for her. You know what I mean? Dani’s going to find someone who’s better for her and she’ll be happy. She’s got a lot going for her. But once I got out of that fog, I would be like, “I do care about Sophie and I do want her to be happy.” You know what I mean?

Drew: Right.

Riese: But I relate to that too, when something happened, and where, when two people get together and I’m like, “Why are you doing this? Why are you fucking up all of this shit for this whatever, this stupid relationship or…” But also, I will say being on the other side of that, where you’re the one who’s in a relationship that came out of a lot of drama, it puts a lot of pressure on you to have the relationship be good, and you deserve it. You deserve to have to grapple with that pressure because you did fuck up. I’m saying “you,” and I was in a relationship like that once. It’s a lot of pressure.

Drew: Sophie’s figuring it out, but what she wants, like Drew said earlier, is for Finley to stay.

Sophie: Don’t go.
Finley: Don’t go?
Sophie: I want you to stay. Goodnight.

Riese: Which is the big ending.

Drew: And that’s the episode! I liked this episode a lot.

Analyssa: I liked this one too.

Drew: I was clear I wasn’t a big fan of the premiere, and this episode really had a lot. Did it have things that bothered me? Absolutely, but the good stuff was so good, and I just found it all to be really entertaining. And even the stuff that bothered me, I enjoyed… The bisexual line and the Micah comparing transness with being married, those two moments, I was like, “Maybe not.”

Riese: And Bette’s denial of her…

Drew: Well, even that, that bothered me, but I was screaming at the TV on Jodi’s behalf. It’s not something that I feel deeply serious about. It’s just I love Jodi, you know? So overall — and it had the best sex scene ever. Again. I think we should talk about that. So, I liked it.

Analyssa: In Kayla’s “Which L Word Character Would Destroy Your Life?” or whatever, I did get Jodi. So I’m—

Drew: I got Jodi, too!

Riese: I got Bette.

Drew: I got Jodi. Who did you get?

Riese: I got Bette.

Drew: That checks out.

Riese: But I think that actually Bette would destroy my life from the inside. I don’t think Bette would destroy me. I think I would become Bette and destroy myself. Does that make sense at all?

Analyssa: Yeah. I really liked this episode. I liked the high drama. I know it’s the most fought-in episode of all time. I kind of liked — to Drew’s point from last week, that things are building to a new place instead of… This is like the tower episode. Everything has to crumble so that they can all come back up.

Riese: Right. It’s like in season four of The L Word original series, that’s when suddenly everyone was single for a minute. I think maybe Tina was with Henry, but everyone else was single.

Analyssa: That doesn’t count.

Drew: Being with Henry is being single.

Riese: Yeah, being with Henry is being single. And that’s when a lot of fun stuff… And I think that it seems kind of where we’re heading with a lot of these people, where they’re single, but these things are sort of building. And that’s exciting, because I think that the show opening last season with Sophie and Dani were together and Alice and Nat were together, there wasn’t as much… And Shane and Quiara were still together. They were poly! They had an open relationship! How did Alice not…

Analyssa: It’s so unclear.

Riese: What?

Analyssa: I think this is a thing about Alice, though, which I remembered from our last episode where I was like, “Why would Alice be mad about this Gigi thing?” It’s just a part of her personality where she’s like, “This is fine in theory, and then as soon as it gets into my home, it’s absolutely not fine.”

Drew: Yeah, that’s fair.

Analyssa: And it’s like, okay, I guess, but apply the theory to your own home. It just is kind of frustrating.

Drew: And does she think Shane is a bad person?

Analyssa: Right. Or Quiara?

Drew: Yeah. She said, “Only bad people are non-monogamous.”

Analyssa: Alice has to be problematic every season of The L Word. She has to have some thing that she’s mad about, and you’re like, “Why are you mad about this? This is not correct.”

Riese: Right.

Drew: But overall, I was thrilled.

Riese: Me too.

Drew: This is what I want from Gen Q, pretty much, and I’m excited for this. By the time this comes out, the episode will be on Showtime, on the website. That means that whenever anyone wants to, they can just scroll to… I didn’t write down the timestamp, but whatever the timestamp. We’ll put it in the show notes. We’ll put the timestamp in the show notes for you. Yeah, pretty fun. Pretty good stuff.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Leave a message, give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, there are To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new To L and Back Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think those would look pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by me, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. That’s “Drew” in the present tense. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa, with two As, and on Twitter @analoca_, with one A and an underscore. And you can follow our in-house L Word savant and living legend, Riese Bernard, everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com. Okay. So sticking with the trend of last week with our now full-of-intention L words, we are going to end this episode with an L word that describes what we thought of this episode. So Drew, Riese, Analyssa, what are your L words?

Riese: I picked for my L word “Lost” kitten on the highway, because that was Finley’s vibe in this episode, and I respect it.

Analyssa: I picked “Lounge” wear.

Riese: Are you thinking about the robe?

Analyssa: I’m thinking about the robe.

Riese: Slipping off the little robe?

Analyssa: … and Gigi and Bette, and Nat is very sleepy. There’s a lot of lounge wear, lounging stuff, which is important to me as a lazy person.

Riese: Who felt seen?

Drew: Another great L word.

Riese: That’s great.

Analyssa: Another great L word, lazy.

Drew: My L word is “Licking,” as in, licking, comma, Gigi Bette’s boobs. Yeah, that’s all I have to say about that. I think I’ve said enough.

Analyssa: All right. Well…

Drew: Here’s to many more sex scenes with the two of them or—

Riese: Other people.

Drew: Bette and Dani. We’ve really been blessed with… Here’s the thing that The L Word does well. Tops.

Riese: Hops?

Drew: Tops. Tops.

Riese: Oh, tops. Yeah. There’s no top shortage on The L Word, that’s for sure. It’s a myth. It’s a myth.

Analyssa: I feel like I stopped hearing about the top shortage.

Drew: There was no top shortage.

Analyssa: I wasn’t really present in the discourse for a while.

Riese: It was present in the discourse for a while, yeah. It was so present that I decided to do a massive survey of all of our readers to find out if there really was a top shortage.

Drew: Wait, really? Wait, I don’t remember that. What did we find?

Riese: There is.

Analyssa: There is a top shortage.

Riese: No, but the main thing that I found is that most people are switches. The vast majority of people are switches, and that more dramatically, there’s a dom shortage. The comparisons of tops to bottoms was a little bit skewed towards bottoms. But the sub to doms was incredibly skewed towards subs.

Drew: That checks out.

Analyssa: Interesting.

Riese: So, get out there and get your tops off on your yogurts.

Drew: This is the kind of science you can expect from us at To L and Back.

Riese: It sure is. We love science.

Analyssa: We love science here.

Riese: Science cast. Next week, more on Russian dictators, or Russian leaders, depending on how you feel about communism.

Analyssa: Bye.

Drew: Bye.

Riese: Drew loves communism.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back Generation Q! One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. You can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget, we also have a hotline! Yes, it still exists! Leave a message, give us a piece of your mind! You can reach us at 971-217-6130! We also have merch! Head over to store.autostraddle.com. There are “Bette Porter For President” t-shirts, To L and Back stickers, and lots of other simply iconic Autostraddle merchandise. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell. Our brand new TLAB Generation Q logo is by the incredible Jacqi Ko! Jacqi is so, so talented and you should definitely go check out her work, I’ve linked her website and socials in the show notes! And let us know if you want us to make stickers of the new logo, because I think the new logo looks pretty sick! This episode was produced, edited and mixed by ME, Lauren Klein, you can find me on Instagram @laurentaylorklein and on Twitter @ltklein. You can follow Drew everywhere @draw_gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instragram @analocaa and on Twitter @analoca_. And you can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @autostraddle. And of course, the reason we are all here…. Autostraddle.com.

Ok, so to end this episode, we are going to do something a little different. Usually we end with a random L word that has little significance to the episode we just recapped, which obviously was great, but for this season we are mixing it up! We are going to bring a little bit more intention to our L words. So Riese, why don’t you explain how this is going to work!

Riese: So at the end of the episode, instead of all saying an L word at the same time, we are just going to say a specific L word that we choose, because it is specifically related to how we feel about the episode in some manner. And today we’re going to use L words that say how we feel about the season upcoming.

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